EV Digest 5128
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Air cars
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: How to Convert - For fun and Profit - Without getting Sued
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 48V Rectifier Module
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Contactor Coils in Series
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: 48V Rectifier Module
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Acceleration Defined
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Plenty of room for Joule Injected improvement - Part 2
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Well crap!
by Matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Some EV History
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Some EV History
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Some EV History
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Two Prongs Make a Right
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Air Cars
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) NAPA - Exide Deep Cycle Batteries - Update
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: NAPA - Exide Deep Cycle Batteries - Update
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Which Trojan Battery Posts are good for EVs, and which ones are bad?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Maybe it is licensed as a NEV. :)
--- Rush wrote:
> Look at the video again, the X-1 has a California plate, 5AFD463.
> So yes, it is a real street legal car...
Hey! ya can hang ANY tag on it to LOOK street legal. Speaking from experiance
in the "Poverty Motor Club" to get a new one (car)home to fix up and register
properly<g>!
Seeya
Bob
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
{snip}
>Anybody else concerned about this much compressed air? This is the
>equivalent of close to 30 scuba tanks, and I don't see how they can really
>protect a tank against getting crushed in an accident due to its volume
>and dependence on keeping its shape- a gas tank can be dented a lot before
>leaking, but a fiber tank can't sustain much distortion at all before failing.
>Danny
It is a lot of air/energy. I got interested in this after the bus company
that i worked for got CNG busses. Those tanks are rated at 12kpsi, fiberglass
wrapped carbon fiber. HUGE compressor used to pump the gas up to pressure to.
The biggest problem with air motors is the loss in mechanical transmission.
Pistons, rods, valves, all lend to having a lot less than just air stored in a
bottle. I tried with a small motorcycle motor, and it was pain. Now if you
could use a turbine like the power plants due, it might be better.
More to the point though, an air compressor station could be built simple
with a cascade system, (lots of high psi bottles tied together) to fill the
tanks quickly. This is what we do at the Fire Dept. However, cubic feet is
cubic feet. What you put in is all that is coming out. With an 88cf bottle @
4000 psi, a 250cc engine on 2 wheels, got me 300ft @ 1/2 throttle.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
State laws vary wildly. My beach buggy
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/125.html> and
<http://paul-g.home.comcast.net/Buggyindex.html> is street legal in WA
less a couple of minor details that no officer has ever bothered me about
(can you spot them?)
Wipers are required in your state (as they are in most all states):
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.410
Fenders have to go to the center of the axle in your state:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.500
Bumper law is especially strict in your state:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.513
Bumpers of some sort are required in some (not all) states:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C300-399/3070000172.HTM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup, you sure can... I wouldn't though.
But if you think that they have broken the law, why don't you prove it instead
of just taking cheap shots at them.
As I suggested in another post, get the goods on them.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "ROBERT RICE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
>
>
> David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Maybe it is licensed as a NEV. :)
>
> --- Rush wrote:
>> Look at the video again, the X-1 has a California plate, 5AFD463.
>> So yes, it is a real street legal car...
>
> Hey! ya can hang ANY tag on it to LOOK street legal. Speaking from
> experiance in the "Poverty Motor Club" to get a new one (car)home to fix up
> and register properly<g>!
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Mike Ellis wrote:
Exactly why I thew in the question about NEDRA along with quoting your
site.
Your comments were buried in your responding post to the 'Whooie, elec
does it again!' thread, and though I caught them right away, I felt many
others probably did not, so I changed the title in my response.
And I hope everyone gets that I asked this more for discussion's sake
than in any way trying to knock you or the Zombie.
I was not offended at all by your comments, rather, I thought you
raised valid issues. I think everyone else also took them in a positive way.
You've been an
inspiration to me a way that the X1 never could for exactly the reasons you
cite. You can build your racer on less money than it takes to buy most new
cars and it's a REAL car the public will see the X1 as a toy, but the fast
DC electrics that you, Matt, and others are driving will show that REAL cars
that people could drive to work can perform.
Thank you for this. Though I admire others in their efforts to promote
quick and fast EVs, I do grow tired of over-priced vehicles that don't
represent what most folks think of as a car. I've said it for years now,
that the AC Propulsion guys should build a recognizable 'car' with real
car features, you know, like functioning doors and that is affordable
while still having amazing performance. $75k Volkswagons don't count.
Something in the $20-$25k range with 0-60 in under 5 seconds and a
100-150 mile range does. It might be hard to hit these price points due
to the high cost of one-off lithium battery packs, but if the rest of
the car was in line with other cars, the high cost of the batteries
could at least be dealt with, discussed, and reasoned to be able to come
down in price with mass production. As it is now, the tZero and now the
X1 seem to only make electrics look bad because of their minimalist
features, lack of common sense, and exclusivity for only the
well-heeled with money to burn who don't live where it might rain
sometimes.
I give credit to the AC propulsion guys though, for putting out the
dollars and effort to prove the incredible range and high specific power
capability of a lithium-based battery pack, but I still feel it would
have been far more impressive to show a steel bodied production car
running 250 miles on a charge, than a curious looking fiberglass toy
doing 300 miles.
Matt's 13 second electric Nissan 240SX to me, is far more impressive
than the $150,000 eleven second skeleton X1 or the tZero, and I believe
Joule Injected will inspire far more folks, too. Give Matt and the other
young EV hotrodders another year or two, maybe less, and I bet they have
street cars that will overtake White Zombie! I'll be the first to run
over and shake their hands when they do...of course, running from Oregon
to Florida might be a little tough!
I.E., when I show friends
videos of what EVs can do, I show your races, not the tzero against a
supercar.
I'm happy to hear this.
each time they get asked where their machine's doors were, they could
honestly say they got blown off... or that they're on the car that won? :)
-Mike
That's good :-)
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting points. Here in the US, pretty much all 50 states have DMV
manuals that require all street legal cars to have 'adequate fenders and
bumpers'....two items the Wrightspeed skeleton machine does not have, so
at least here, it does not pass as being a street legal car. It does
appear to have some funky bicycle-like fenders that most probably would
not pass as being adequate, but it hasn't any bumpers at all. It also
doesn't even have a windshield, side glass, rear glass, enclosed fenders,
a roof, or any doors. For any 'thinking individual' the term 'car' isn't
even appropriate....race machine, yes.....experimental craft, yes....Real
car? No.
Well according to the DMV it is indeed a real car. It has a license plate
issued by the DMV here in California. It even has a vanity plate "175mpg".
It's interesting that other full on convertalbes(Zebra, Prowler) & dune
buggies are licensed. Isn't there a class where they can race at the track?
How would you run some hot rods. I know some of them don't have tops and
they do run. Doesn't the roll bar and 5 point restraint change the rules?
Oh yes race car. I personnally think that being licensed and safe aught to
be the first point of order. I owned a 1200 in the seventies and I drove it
across country 6 times. What a great machine. Just enough hp to crest the
rockies on I 80. However if you are talkin safe how safe is a vehicle that
has maybe 10 times the hp it had stock. Fair is fair. If you are talkin
safe then the Wright speed pound for pound is safer because of the
engineering. I can't remember if Zombie has a crash cage but it would need
that to be equal to that rolling skeleton. I say all this with respect to
both cars. Lawrence Rhodes...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So now X-1 has to prove that the plate is legal.....If anybody wants to
disprove it, for about $35 you can get a report, just google license plate
lookup and you'll get lots of them
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
> I'd love to find out what car 5AFD463 is registered to. I'd be pleasantly
> surprised if it was the X1.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
If the vehicle was manufacture as shown, then it is legal on the streets. If
its modified VW than you are missing the bumpers and catalytic converter that
originally came with the car.
One person on the list, either in Washington or Oregon did not past inspection
with there EV because it did not have a catalytic converter, so he threw the
old one in the back seat, so it now's have a catalytic converter IN IT.
My sports car which only 100 was made, did not come with bumpers, catalytic
converter, no heater and air condition, air bags, and no mufflers but it pass
inspection and got it license in Montana. This type of car is a modified racing
car in the CAM AM racing series, that has doors and top that open together and
flush form head lights that is design for sports car driving.
You can see the bare engine in this car with only one wire going to it. It has
tuned cross over exhaust with 8 separated pipes that does not need a muffler.
The car is only 39 inches high and it can be air lower right to ground until
the frame touches. The front of the car is normally only 2 inches off the
ground and there is no way for the manufacturer to put bumpers on this car.
They would have to be in front of the windshield.
I was going to make a EV out of it, but I could only drive it here in Montana
on clean pave roads, when its not raining or snowing, when's it not too cold or
too hot. The batteries even if there were Li-Ion type, they would weigh as
much as the car.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
>
>State laws vary wildly. My beach buggy
><http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/125.html<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/125.html>>
and
><http://paul-g.home.comcast.net/Buggyindex.html<http://paul-g.home.comcast.net/Buggyindex.html>>
is street legal in WA
>less a couple of minor details that no officer has ever bothered me about
>(can you spot them?)
Wipers are required in your state (as they are in most all states):
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.410<http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.410>
Fenders have to go to the center of the axle in your state:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.500<http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.500>
Bumper law is especially strict in your state:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.513<http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.513>
Bumpers of some sort are required in some (not all) states:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C300-399/3070000172.HTM<http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C300-399/3070000172.HTM>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to the state BAR, no smog checks have ever been recorded for the
vehicle, so it's most likely registered as a custom vehicle. Either way,
the plates were never on an ICE car.
Tim
On 1/26/06, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:20:54 -0600
> From: Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> >
> > Look at the video again, the X-1 has a California plate, 5AFD463. So
> yes,
> > it is a real street legal car...
> >
> > But it doesn't have a radio.
> >
> > Rush
> > Tucson AZ
> > www.ironandwood.org
>
>
>
>
> My dad's workshop has a number of plates on the exterior wall. That
> doesn't
> > make it street legal in any of the places the plates are from. ;)
>
>
> I'd love to find out what car 5AFD463 is registered to. I'd be pleasantly
> surprised if it was the X1.
>
> -Mike
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pictures?
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My sports car which only 100 was made, did not come with bumpers, catalytic
> converter, no heater
> and air condition, air bags, and no mufflers but it pass inspection and got
> it license in
> Montana. This type of car is a modified racing car in the CAM AM racing
> series, that has doors
> and top that open together and flush form head lights that is design for
> sports car driving.
>
> You can see the bare engine in this car with only one wire going to it. It
> has tuned cross over
> exhaust with 8 separated pipes that does not need a muffler.
>
> The car is only 39 inches high and it can be air lower right to ground until
> the frame touches.
> The front of the car is normally only 2 inches off the ground and there is no
> way for the
> manufacturer to put bumpers on this car. They would have to be in front of
> the windshield.
>
> I was going to make a EV out of it, but I could only drive it here in Montana
> on clean pave
> roads, when its not raining or snowing, when's it not too cold or too hot.
> The batteries even
> if there were Li-Ion type, they would weigh as much as the car.
>
> Roland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:17:17 -0700, Marvin Campbell
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Word, bruthah. Exact same thing happened to me. Just substitute "gym" for
>restaurant, "cable" for soup, and everything else is pretty much the same-
>except out here in CA the inscos automatically spit out 20K just to make
>these people go away.
I bet wouldn't take long to dig up hundreds of these experiences, all
too small to make the papers but extremely chilling nonetheless.
>Lots of service-type folks out here are going the NEW self-insured route:
>Put everything you own into a trust, and run commando. The lawyers follow
>the money. If you have no attachable assets they go away.
You have any reading you could reference me to? I'm interested. I'd
go bare again if I could protect my personal assets.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would this Ebay item make a good high-power 48V charger: 6841423299 ? It's
labeled "Rectifier Module". Is it an isolated power supply?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Specs don't say, but will it run off of DC input through half
> the rectifier?
This is almost always the case for a device with a wide range input, but
if you wanted to be absolutely sure, your best bet is to contact ASTEC
and ask them directly.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Would this Ebay item make a good high-power 48V charger:
> 6841423299 ? It's labeled "Rectifier Module". Is it an
> isolated power supply?
I would be wary of trusting this seller's descriptions. I notice that
another of his auctions is for a "DynaLoad DVLP-50-300-3000A Power
Supply", however, the Dynaload is not a power supply but an active load
bank! (50-300-3000 = 50V max, 300A max, 3000W max).
Unless you can search up something online that clarifies what exactly
this Invensys unit is, I would assume that it is just a rectifier module
as its front panel states and not a power supply.
One of this seller's other auctions is for a Sorensen 60V/30A power
supply; this is an isolated, linear supply and if it is in good working
condition could make a decent 48V charger (though 60V is a bit on the
low side to finish charge/equalise a 48V set of PbA). The picture shows
the unit fitted with a pair of digital panel meters, but I am pretty
sure it originally came with analog meters (at least the pair of
Sorensens I have did), so someone has been inside it and all bets may be
off.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I might stop by John Force's place and see if he has anything used for
sale....
After Monster Garage, I want to do someting fast, and well engineered...
Not a week long thrash with a total lack of respect for saftey and common
sense.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Acceleration Defined
> Rudman wrote:
>
> > Somebody want to cut me a check for 5 Mill, and a year to make it
happen????
>
> I figure with your Monster Garage experience; after you get the check,
> you could have it at the track in a week. ;) Would you use Goldie or
> the Fiero for this?
>
> I could ask Billy Gates or Google.org to cut you a check for your
> efforts. Though they seem to just want to keep their money stowed
> away in a bank account so they can appear in those top 100 lists of
> the richest people year after year.... It might help out the economy
> if they'd put some money into it..
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Dave,
This vehicle was store inside a box, and a steel container for the last 15
years. So no pictures yet. I had it remove about a year ago and is at a
customizer body shop to do some mods. It will be there another 6 months and I
will take a series of pictures for a photo layout. The steering column is
going to be updated with all the controls on it. It will retain the
re-moveable steering wheel that can be remove, so a person can get in.
There will be two set of doors that can be change out. One door and top hinge
forward and another door with out the top, making it a convertible. All the
doors, windows, and rear hood cover over the engine will have power assist by
using a clicker.
For a year now, the fiberglass body is be re-level and reinforce which means it
is block sanded between coats of sealer until it is glass smooth. Then the
three part candy apple paint is apply and then the surface is color sand seven
times and than polish eight times.
The name of the car is a Manta Mirage. You can see this type of car by just
type in Manta Mirage in your search engine. Mine is like the long body red one
that is display at a car show.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Cover<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: World's Quickest and Fastest Street Legal Electric Car?
Pictures?
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> My sports car which only 100 was made, did not come with bumpers, catalytic
converter, no heater
> and air condition, air bags, and no mufflers but it pass inspection and got
it license in
> Montana. This type of car is a modified racing car in the CAM AM racing
series, that has doors
> and top that open together and flush form head lights that is design for
sports car driving.
>
> You can see the bare engine in this car with only one wire going to it. It
has tuned cross over
> exhaust with 8 separated pipes that does not need a muffler.
>
> The car is only 39 inches high and it can be air lower right to ground
until the frame touches.
> The front of the car is normally only 2 inches off the ground and there is
no way for the
> manufacturer to put bumpers on this car. They would have to be in front of
the windshield.
>
> I was going to make a EV out of it, but I could only drive it here in
Montana on clean pave
> roads, when its not raining or snowing, when's it not too cold or too hot.
The batteries even
> if there were Li-Ion type, they would weigh as much as the car.
>
> Roland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:50 PM
Subject: Plenty of room for Joule Injected improvement - Part 2
> So, I didn't reach my goal for the event, but it is only a matter of time
> before that happens. It turns out a couple of capacitors let loose in the
> PFC-20, and it is already on its way back to the capable hands of Rich
> Rudman. Since it currently takes me 2 days to charge up each of the 25
> batteries individually, I don't think I'll be making it back to the track
> until I've got my charger back!
>
> Of course I wish all of this could have ended differently on a brighter
> note, but that, apparently, is a story for another day. . .
>
> Matt Graham
> 300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
> http://www.jouleinjected.com
> Hobe Sound, FL
>
Matt's a Florida Boy... How the heck he came up with a pre #75 charger I
really don't know.. But it's clear he has the old "Mill Spec" caps that we
no longer use....
That old charger will get a heart transplant to modern Specs.. or if I can
con him into buying a PFC30 with better everything... he will be farther
along.
Hey Matt.. gimme shout I just had a idea....
Madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I previously wrote:
My beach buggy <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/125.html> and
<http://paul-g.home.comcast.net/Buggyindex.html> is street legal in
WA less a couple of minor details that no officer has ever bothered
me about (can you spot them?)
On Jan 26, 2006, at 6:58 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wipers are required in your state (as they are in most all
states):
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.410
That's one. Not one they have been concerned about considering the
restrictions placed on the buggy's operation by RCW 46.35.500(2).
Fenders have to go to the center of the axle in your state:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.500
46.37.500(2)
(2) A motor vehicle that is not less than forty years old or a
street rod vehicle that is owned and operated primarily as a
collector's item need not be equipped with fenders when the vehicle is
used and driven during fair weather on well-maintained, hard-surfaced
roads.
Bumper law is especially strict in your state:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.513
46.37.518
Notwithstanding the requirements of this chapter, hoods and bumpers are
optional equipment on street rods and kit vehicles. Street rods and kit
vehicles must comply with fender requirements under RCW 46.37.500(2)
and the windshield requirement of RCW 46.37.410(1).
The buggy is a kit vehicle based on a 1964 frame of a recognized
manufacturer and titled as such (1964 VW Beetle 2 door sedan.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just started my first electrical fire on my car. My fault one
wire missconnected. At least I caught it before the car/garage burned
down. Fried the cooling fan's power supply, however. The fan that
cools the motor controller. Hope I didn't torch the controller.
Anyone have a schematic/circuit diagram for this so I can replace it?
Guess I can pull power from the 12 volt side and let it run all the
time.
Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dan Eyk had asked me off list about a car he once saw in Oregon called
something like Rolling Thunder and he couldn't find anything on the net. I
thought you all might find my reply of interest so I am posting it here as
well.
Hi Dan,
Thanks for asking. I think anything relating to EV racing history is very
important to document for future generations of this sport. You are right
that there is not much on the net about it. Heck, back then I didn't even
know how to use a computer. I built "Silent Thunder" in 1993 with the help
of my partner Bob Rickard of Wilde Evolutions. We actually finished building
it at the track at PIR (Phoenix International Raceways) at the APS Solar and
Electric 500 with help from fellow racers. There were rumors flying that it
was a rental car that we picked up at the airport and had gutted :-) Things
were very hectic in those days but they were also massively fun! A great
bunch of people and a lot of comradery! I also did road racing at Firebird
International Raceway in Phoenix, Arizona the following year. In 1994 it ran
four strings of GNB Pulsar batteries like Ed Rannberg ran in "Kawashocki".
In 1995 we ran 5 strings of 26 amp/hr Hawkers at 216 volts per string with a
single Zilla. That was over 2000 pounds of batteries, a literal ton, and we
did not exceed GVW. You needed that much energy density for a 60 mile road
race when doing well over 70 mph in the starights and scrubbing off the
power in four wheel drifts in turn one. In addition we entered it in the Los
Angeles Clean Air Road Rally and did quite well in the range event. We did
this back in 1993 and 1994. In 1996 we sold "Silent Thunder" to Michael
Murphy of the California Stock Letter. I believe this is his new company.
https://iplacereports.com/index.asp?sid=5FM101 You might be able to get
further details from him. I was on the "Silent Thunder" pit crew at
Bonneville for both attempts in 1996 and 1997. It took world records both
times. It originally ran a single 9" Advanced DC motor. After the race in
'96 Michael, the new owner, had the car shipped to the infamous Bob
Schneeveis of Palo Alto who lived near Otmar at the time. This was not too
far from where he lived in California, Bob installed four 8" Advanced DC
motors and used the 336 volts of Optimas from the first year and a Zilla
controller that had a longer name back then :-) "Silent Thunder" had a lot
more speed in it. On the second year when it got the record of 133.353 mph
it ran out of gearing real quick. It didn't run out of horsepower. It needed
much taller gears. I hope this info helps.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
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Roderick Wilde wrote:
> a Zilla controller that had a longer name back then :-)
Is there more to this story about the name change? Did it have
anything to do with copyright issues or just that it had the word God
in it or something entirely different or nothing at all?
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Fear of the movie copyrights I believe. There was no threat but better safe
than sorry. Back in those days there were less than a half a dozen on the
entire planet so you could have called them anything without worry. It is
when you go into semi production or full production that you should worry.
You usually get a shot across the bow before there is any legal action. For
a more definitive explanation go to the horse's mouth and ask Otmar.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Some EV History
Roderick Wilde wrote:
a Zilla controller that had a longer name back then :-)
Is there more to this story about the name change? Did it have
anything to do with copyright issues or just that it had the word God
in it or something entirely different or nothing at all?
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On 1/26/06, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Something in the $20-$25k range with 0-60 in under 5 seconds and a
> 100-150 mile range does. It might be hard to hit these price points due
> to the high cost of one-off lithium battery packs, but if the rest of
> the car was in line with other cars, the high cost of the batteries
> could at least be dealt with, discussed, and reasoned to be able to come
> down in price with mass production.
Speaking of which, this came up on my Google Alerts the other day:
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jan2006/nf20060124_5834.htm
Hybrids with Li-Ion in Their Tank Subaru, Toyota, and other carmakers are
looking to lithium-ion battery technology to power the next stage of hybrid
evolution...
and it goes on to talk about prices falling as a result.
-Mike
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New coalition lobbies Big Auto to build plug-in hybrid cars. From the Daily
Grist.
Plug-In Partners is not, as the name might indicate, a swingers' club.
Rather, it's a diverse national campaign -- encompassing cities, electric
utilities, national-security hawks, and others -- pushing for plug-in
hybrids: gas-electric vehicles with batteries that can be recharged via a
regular wall socket. Once powered up (ideally at night, when electric rates
tend to be lower) such vehicles could go 20 to 35 miles or more on
electricity alone and achieve fuel efficiency of 80 to 100 miles per gallon.
The coalition says plug-in hybrids could substantially reduce demand for oil
and curb air pollution. Most automakers say plug-in hybrids would cost more
than consumers want to spend, so the campaign has vowed to drum up demand.
Member city Austin, Texas, led the way on Tuesday by vowing to buy 600 of
the next-gen green vehicles as soon as they come to market.
straight to the source: Star Tribune, Greg Gordon, 25 Jan 2006
straight to the source: Los Angeles Times, Nick Timiraos, 25 Jan 2006
straight to the source: The Wall Street Journal, John J. Fialka, 25 Jan 2006
(access ain't free)
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I just talked to the air resources board about the "drive cycle test"
that all cars must take to get their smog approval in california, Maybe
it is different than the EPA test but it is done on a dyno not a track.
er, here is a quote (from LA times jan 11 2006)
The EPA currently relies on a standard series of indoor lab tests that
simulate driving in mild weather at top highway speeds of 60 mph and
average speeds of 48 mph. Vehicles are mounted on dynamometers —
machines that spin their wheels to calculate mileage. The EPA
acknowledges that the tests simulate driving conditions that are less
severe than what most drivers encounter.
hummm.
I also was researching air compressors for another use, it is a very
ineffient process. I found a US government site on it and it gives kw/cfm
http://eereweb.ee.doe.gov/industry/bestpractices/pdfs/compressed_air_sourcebook.pdf
around page 48, they mention power usage by compressor type
single acting air cooled piston 22-24 kW/[EMAIL PROTECTED], 746w/bhp and 92%
eff electric motor.
double acting water cooled piston 15-16 kW/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
lubricant injected rotary single stage 18-19
lubricant injected rotary dual stage 16-17
More are mentioned but none are better than 3 lung watercooled double
acting piston type.
At some point it becomes better to cryogenically liquify the air than
compressing it.
This got me curious about some real numbers for hydrogen, it is a
difficult gas to compress.
the hydrogen liquifing plants claim 12.5 to 15 kW/kg but compressing to
only 7000psi is 2.6 to 3.6 kWh/kg
does anyone know the rest of the kg/mile and natural gass to hydrogen kg
equation?
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Hello everybody:
Just wanted to give you a quick update on my previously mentioned battery
issue. Short review: I didn't wanted to change all cables on my truck and
the Trojan guy gave me a hard time in regard to AP posts, so I went to the
local NAPA store and got myself a set of Exide made 6 V DeepCycle Floodies
with the capacity of T-125s. They had to order them and they all came a
few days later in one shipment. I very soon started to be disappointed by
the capacity and range until I was barely able to get 15 Miles out of the
truck (at 144 Volt nominal). I am using an average of 250 Watt/hrs per
Mile.
After some hunting I actually found a dead battery a week ago. It measured
2.3 Volts under load, all other batteries were fine.
A new measurement today turned out two other batteries dead (one measured
.773 Volts under load, mind you, not a cell, the complete battery, the
other one about 3.3 Volts). So it seems as if all my NAPA/Exides are
dying. Some are developing some kind of blueish stuff around a pole,
others are just dead.
I contacted Exide today and asked them, if they are willing to replace my
complete set of batteries against Exide branded new ones, let's see how
and if they answer.
I am currently using an NG-3 charger, water levels are ok and those
batteries have never been raped in any form. I am still asking myself, if
I might be responsible for the untimely death of those batteries .. any
ideas?
Michaela
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I don't know about your NAPA store but I had a 120v
pack of orbitals which I abused very badly and they
just gave me new ones. Orbitals are two year
unconditional gaurentee.donn't know about the 6v
flooded but i think you should not have any problem If
the batteries don't do what they are supposed to do
the company selling them or the company mnufacturing
them should make it right
good luck
:)
--- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello everybody:
>
> Just wanted to give you a quick update on my
> previously mentioned battery
> issue. Short review: I didn't wanted to change all
> cables on my truck and
> the Trojan guy gave me a hard time in regard to AP
> posts, so I went to the
> local NAPA store and got myself a set of Exide made
> 6 V DeepCycle Floodies
> with the capacity of T-125s. They had to order them
> and they all came a
> few days later in one shipment. I very soon started
> to be disappointed by
> the capacity and range until I was barely able to
> get 15 Miles out of the
> truck (at 144 Volt nominal). I am using an average
> of 250 Watt/hrs per
> Mile.
>
> After some hunting I actually found a dead battery a
> week ago. It measured
> 2.3 Volts under load, all other batteries were fine.
>
> A new measurement today turned out two other
> batteries dead (one measured
> .773 Volts under load, mind you, not a cell, the
> complete battery, the
> other one about 3.3 Volts). So it seems as if all my
> NAPA/Exides are
> dying. Some are developing some kind of blueish
> stuff around a pole,
> others are just dead.
>
> I contacted Exide today and asked them, if they are
> willing to replace my
> complete set of batteries against Exide branded new
> ones, let's see how
> and if they answer.
>
> I am currently using an NG-3 charger, water levels
> are ok and those
> batteries have never been raped in any form. I am
> still asking myself, if
> I might be responsible for the untimely death of
> those batteries .. any
> ideas?
>
> Michaela
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Which Trojan Battery Posts are good for EVs, and which ones
are bad?
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:30:00 -0700
T875's with LPT always used the torque wrench, check and retorqued about
once a month, 16,000 miles, about a year, Normal amp less than 200,
occasional draw 400 amps for maybe 5 seconds going up a hill, never had
any problems.
That sounds encouraging.
What torque are you using?
And, what kind of terminals - are they crimped on lugs ?
Are you using belleville washers, or anything special?
Phil
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--- Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
speaking of which, this came up on my Google Alerts
> the other day:
>
>
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jan2006/nf20060124_5834.htm
>
>
> -Mike
>
>
Thanks Mike definately worth the read and probably a
good place to stuff a few bucks..LI ion is going to
take off no doubt about it
keith
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