EV Digest 5144
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Al Gore and electric car star in films unveiled at Sundance
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) 1992 Electric Civic listed on Ebay
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: need help moving car
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: cut flywheels & clutches
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Aircraft Gen. Motor WAS Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Aircraft Gen. Motor WAS Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) how to ask to charge at work
by "Jim Seibert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: how to ask to charge at work
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Electric 'Power Breakfast' this Sunday at the Village Inn, Portland
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: ***White Zombie***, Featured Car Of The Month
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: HV dc converter on eBay
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Aircraft Gen. Motor WAS Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Etractor, was Aircraft Gen. Motor etc.
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Regen settings, was Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: EV digest 5137
by Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: how to ask to charge at work
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV digest 5137
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) 1986 Toyota Pickup update/pictures
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Increasing Range
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Bush mentions battery tech, EVs, Comments
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: 1986 Toyota Pickup update/pictures
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Hybrid efficiency, was: Increasing Range
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
NEW IN GRIST
Lights, Camera, Traction
Al Gore and electric car star in films unveiled at Sundance
Think you know all there is to know about the man once mocked as "Al Bore"?
Think again. At the recent Sundance Film Festival, audiences got an eyeful
of a new man with a powerful message: "Dudes, we've gotta do something about
climate change, yo." And, believe it or not, the documentary about Gore's
climate quest was a smash hit. Meanwhile, another green documentary made its
world premiere, a whodunit entitled Who Killed the Electric Car? Addiction
to oil, us? Nah.
new in Arts and Minds: Lights, Camera, Traction
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use an electronic PWM controller. More expensive, but now
you can have a continuously-adjustable "throttle" like a normal
car. But the cheaper PWM controllers don't have regenerative
braking, and won't climb hills or accellerate as fast.
Solution? Have a contactor cut out the PWM controller when decelerating for
regen. Have a turbo mode which cuts out the controller & goes to full
battery pack voltage. LR.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/photos/view/a5fd?b=1&m=f&o=0
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Got pictures? 8 batteries shouldn't be hard to do. LR...........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/photos/view/a5fd?b=1&m=f&o=0
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Got pictures? 8 batteries shouldn't be hard to do. LR...........>>>
Some folks would rather not join a Yahoo group for a one-time picture viewing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've listed my 1992 Civic conversion on eBay. See item 4609975277
Selling the Civic to get a new EV...
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 28, 2006, at 11:43 PM, Paul G. wrote:
Another minor point is that if you are flat towing a car you *cannot*
back-up!
Well, true if you're all alone. However, if you can get someone to
briefly sit in the towed car, he/she can turn the steering wheel to
allow you to back up.
Been there, done that.
Paul "neon" G.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The button flywheel I have is 5.5 inches in diameter and only about 1/2
inch thick, But it is made from 4140 not cast. The reason for the NHRA
requirement is that the flywheel has to be so much more heavy for an ICE
and therfore more prone to explode under High RPM. The EV flywheel can
be thinner, which is lighter, and can handle more RPM.
I don't think flexing of the flywheel by clutch activation is really
much of a problem, My triple plate 5.5 clutch is ok an used for 700hp
10,000 rpm formula atlantics
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00020.jpg It is actually thined down where
the bolts are
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:29 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote:
Christopher Zach wrote:
>> Since it has an aircraft generator, the accellerator should have
>> controlled a rheostat, which sets the field current.
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Hm. Once you add field weakening, you really need to include a
> circuit to watch armature current and bypass FW if armature gets
> too much power. That might make for weird feelings when driving
> down the road.
My first EV had this setup; an aircraft generator, with the field
current set by a rheostat operated by the accellerator. It was actually
quite drivable. The accellerator response is odd; it acts like the
setting for a cruise control. At any given position, the vehicle tried
to hold a constant speed, whether up hill or down, motoring or regen as
needed. The current goes to whatever it takes to hold that speed; +500
to -500 amps.
The current could get excessive, but these generators have a (weak)
series field as well; connecting it in series softens the current peaks
and "cruise control" effect a bit.
This setup accellerates (and regens) so strongly that a beginner is
likely to break something. I burned up battery terminals, welded
contactors, etc. You really must include at least a fuse or circuit
breaker!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60 tractor
with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron. Seems the owner fixed the leaky
coolant pump and filled it with water to check for leaks but forgot put
coolant back in before the cold season.:( Rather then name names lets just
say transporting the dead tractor to my yard did not present much of a problem.
I use the loader for moving stuff around, putting logs on the sawmill,
plowing snow and such, no real work like plowing the back 40 so electric
will be ideal anyway :) especially since starting the beast at 10°F could
be a 2 hour ordeal.
An aircraft generator would seem to be ideal for this application with its
constant speed and regen breaking.
Something like this one
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006020217265170&item=6-936&catname=
running on 8 6 volt batteries. Will also needed an electric pump for the
hydraulics and power steering and possibly a pump to splash oil around in
the transmission.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual switch
that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in copper and
fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the milling
machine. Would use a contactor to break the circuit before changing the
switch position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed ranges, and a rheostat
on the field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt position may well not be
needed but I want to ensure a real slow creep speed for positioning objects
with the loader.
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft
generator? Nice for plowing snow.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:58 PM 2/2/2006, Andre' Blanchard wrote:
At 01:29 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote:
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual
switch that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in
copper and fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the
milling machine.
Sounds like it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a low voltage
controller.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've come to the realization, that despite my best intentions, I've been slowly
murdering my first pack. (14x8V trojans). I've reached about 4000 miles, with a
daily commute of 30 miles to work (15 each way, no charge at work). Now, my
range is 30 miles best case, and I can tell, it's just getting worse. I figure
if I could charge at work, I can extend the life of my batteries another 6
months or so. (had I done this a year ago, I probably would have several years
left).
Does anyone have some ideas I can use to "sell" the idea of letting me charge
at work?
I work at a fairly large electronics manufacturing plant, so there are
technical folks in management, but I think their desire to help will be
outweighed by their fear of litigation.
Thanks for your consideration.
Jim Seibert
'92 Celica EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Start at your first level management and move up the line. Where I work there
is always an enviroment argument that by driving the electric vehicle I am
using a non-fueled technolgy to reduce smog emission created by Automobiles.
Make sure you have amperage requirements and offer to pay for the power and
installation of a outlet if there is a hesistancy. Also you can Show them your
charging cost by Killawatts used over a monthly period will certainly give them
some food for though.
Jim Seibert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've come to the realization, that
despite my best intentions, I've been slowly murdering my first pack. (14x8V
trojans). I've reached about 4000 miles, with a daily commute of 30 miles to
work (15 each way, no charge at work). Now, my range is 30 miles best case, and
I can tell, it's just getting worse. I figure if I could charge at work, I can
extend the life of my batteries another 6 months or so. (had I done this a year
ago, I probably would have several years left).
Does anyone have some ideas I can use to "sell" the idea of letting me charge
at work?
I work at a fairly large electronics manufacturing plant, so there are
technical folks in management, but I think their desire to help will be
outweighed by their fear of litigation.
Thanks for your consideration.
Jim Seibert
'92 Celica EV
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Having driven EVs like this for years, in my opinion, this is
> too crude. It's too easy to break things! (Been there, done that :-)
> > BUT a $2500+- street legal vehicle with title (Not a NEV or
> > LEV) is a tough Budget to accomplish.
>
> Agreed! I really do think that is a good price for a complete
> drivable vehicle. The key point is that it wouldn't be much
> more to do it a lot better.
I agree completely with Lee; it really doesn't cost that much more to do
a much better conversion. To be fair, the E-Volks $2500 vehicle is not
at all in the same league as a NEV; in comparison to the 36V on/off
slipping clutch controlled E-Volks car, the (72V) NEV is quiet, peppier,
and has a proper PWM controller complete with regen braking...
controlled regen braking.
Just for kicks, I looked over the E-Volks kit prices and component
prices. They offer 3 kits: on/off control, GE control, and Alltrax
control, with prices ranging from $1495 to $2495:
$1495 = motor + adapter + contactor + charger + voltmeter + ammeter
+ $404 misc (fuse, 20ft 2/0, 8 lugs, 16 battery clamps, switch
box)
$1995 = motor + adapter + contactor + charger + voltmeter + ammeter
+ Curtis potbox + GE controller
+ $409 misc (fuse, 20ft 2/0, 8 lugs, 16 battery clamps)
$2495 = motor + adapter + contactor + charger + voltmeter + ammeter
+ Curtis potbox + Alltrax controller
+ $684 misc (fuse, 20ft 2/0, 8 lugs, 16 battery clamps)
Then I browsed online (mostly EV Parts, since they have an excellent
online catalog) to see what it might cost to put together a comparable
kit from quality components (e.g. new ADC motor with internal fan
instead of inefficient surplus aircraft starter generator which requires
external cooling - not supplied or included in costs, quality crimp
terminals, etc.):
Basic on/off:
6.7" ADC: ~$600
Metro adapter+hub: ~$600
EV200: ~$100
Fuse: ~$ 20
Voltmeter: ~$ 50
Ammeter: ~$ 50
Shunt: ~$ 20
8 lugs: $ 18
16 clamps: $ 60
20ft 2/0 cable: $ 56
12VDC switch: ~$ 6
Wilderness
EV charger: $ 195
======
$1775
Or, less than $300 more than the comparable Wilderness EV kit to use a
proper motor and terminals. This is basically the difference in cost
between the Wilderness EV adapter+hub ($145+$165=$310) and a complete
adapter set (including all bolts) for a Metro and ADC6.7" or ADC8"
motor. Since the ADC is a series motor, it really wouldn't be advisable
to use this simple on/off control strategy due to the possibility of
over-revving the motor; one would either add the starting resistor and
series/parallel switching Lee suggested or use a PWM controller:
Deluxe PWM controller:
All above: $1775
less 12VDC switch -$ 6
450A AXE: ~$600
Potbox: ~$ 75
======
$2444
This is actually about $50 *less* than the comparable Wilderness EV kit,
despite using a proper EV motor and terminals, and spending $300 more on
the adpater/hub.
Now, let's see what it would cost to really dress this kit up:
with Link-10
instead of analog
guages: -$ 100
Link-10: $ 230
Prescaler: $ 100
======
$2804
or with Delta-Q
36V/21A or
48V/18A or
72V/12A charger: ~$ 600
======
$2849
With Link-10 and
Delta-Q charger: $3079
So, using respected, quality conventional EV components, a good fuel
guage/voltmeter/ammeter, and a decent charger (wide range PFC input,
sealed, high efficiency, with temperature compensation and automatic
turnoff, etc.) costs less than $600 more than the comparable Wilderness
EV kit. Other nice-to-haves for any of these would include protective
boots over the traction wiring terminal, a circuit breaker and/or manual
disconnect (Anderson SB connector).
The $2500 for a "turn-key" 36V on/off control scrap-yard Metro is still
a remarkable price; the kit they install retails for $1495, leaving
about $1000, $300-400 of which is immediately consumed by 6 flooded golf
cart batteries. This leaves $600 to pay for a scrap-yard Metro donor
*and* the labour of removing the ICE, fabricating battery racks, and
installing the electric drivetrain. It would be nice if they offered
the option of paying $50 more to have quality terminals installed
instead of the cheesy bolt-on ends.
If one were really looking for the absolute cheapest non-pre-owned EV,
the $2500 Wilderness EV kit probably wins. Once you get the car, invest
$50-100 in good quality terminals and make sure the battery racks and
holddowns are adequate and you've got your basic, crude electric errand
runner/commuter.
If, however, one wants something more driveable, and with better range,
it appears that it would actually be cheaper to build your own using
good quality conventional components, readily available from the usual
online suppliers.
Food for thought, anyway,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI-
CORRECTION SUNDAY FEB.5th
F.T.
> [Original Message]
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 2/2/2006 7:50:12 AM
> Subject: Electric 'Power Breakfast' this Sunday at the Village Inn,
Portland
>
> Hello to All,
>
> This Sunday, Feb. 8th, we are having another one of our fun electric
> breakfasts here in Portland at the Village Inn restaurant at 102nd &
> S.E. Stark St. at 9:00 AM. All friends and EVers are invited to pull up
> a chair, stuff their face, and enjoy the rowdy noise at our table.
> Notable EVers that I know will be there so far, are Father Time, Rod
> Wilde, Tim Brehm, Jim and Matt Husted, and yours truly. Rudman usually
> can't resist the temptation, and Marko Mongillo might make it, too.
> Hopefully, Victor can bring his ACRX and Ralph Merwin can show up in his
> immaculate electric Prism. Tim and I will be driving White Zombie and
> Blue Meanie, so local EVers, drive electric if you can.
>
> See Ya.......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well better late than never. I too want to congratulate John. I believe it
is only fitting that he be the very first ever electric featured car of the
month. After all, he brought this great idea to our attention back in
December 29th of last year. With him as the featured car this month we still
have the possibility of having the featured car be electric for the next two
months if you keep up your voting. That is one fourth of a year that
electrics would be dominating the front page. The word is getting out
worldwide. Keep up the great work folks! We did it and we will keep on doing
it.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:29 PM
Subject: ***White Zombie***, Featured Car Of The Month
Congratulations John, and thank you to all the loyal fans for bringing
electric vehicles to the forefront. Surely this and the fact that you guys
put a lot time and effort into the cars, will open some eyes.
Again, Thanks and Congratulations.
Mike,
Anchorage, AK.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Richard... is this the same module I was looking at for the '500? How
does that affect my plans? Lot more cost / complexity?
Hi Robin,
Don't worry, it won't affect the modules we were talking about
(those are the newer 2nd generation ones)
The modules on Ebay are from Vicor's 1st generation series.
Still available new from Vicor, still darned good components(if pricey)
FWIW Robin I'm bidding on another of those 24volt PSUs - like the one in
the Mini,
except this one's more powerful. Would run well on 300V of Kokams, if
you can
live with the whine of the fan.... :-)
--
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electric.mini/
UK dealer for Netgain EV motors!
www.go-ev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60
tractor with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron. Seems the owner fixed the
leaky coolant pump and filled it with water to check for leaks but
forgot put coolant back in before the cold season.:( Rather then name
names lets just say transporting the dead tractor to my yard did not
present much of a problem.
Oh you lucky thing. A loader sounds like a nice addition to the universe.
An aircraft generator would seem to be ideal for this application with
its constant speed and regen breaking.
Something like this one
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006020217265170&item=6-936&catname=
running on 8 6 volt batteries. Will also needed an electric pump for
the hydraulics and power steering and possibly a pump to splash oil
around in the transmission.
Regen on a tractor is great. You basically want to go one speed up hills
and down, and a shunt motor with a small series compensation field will
fit the bill very well. No need for a series motor.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual
switch that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in
copper and fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the milling
machine. Would use a contactor to break the circuit before changing the
switch position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed ranges, and a
rheostat on the field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt position may
well not be needed but I want to ensure a real slow creep speed for
positioning objects with the loader.
You could do that, or you could just do the Elec-trak trick with
resistors on speeds 1-3, full power on speed 4, and some field weakening
resistors on 5-8. Yes this might seem inefficient at first glance but
really think about it for a bit: This is a tractor. It's going to be
going in the same speed all day to mow, the same speed to till, and the
same speed to rip around the yard from point a to b. I almost *never*
use the resistors for more than startup; it's gear L-full to mow, D-full
to travel, LL-Full for snowblowing. The only time I have sat in speed
1,2 is when I am tilling, and to be honest the tiller moves you forward.
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft
generator? Nice for plowing snow.
Shunt motors are easy to reverse; you have two options:
1) Reverse the polarity of the field
2) Reverse the polarity of the armature.
Shunt motors tend to run "better" in one direction than the other mainly
because of the little compensation field in series with the motor. On
the E20, when you reverse the armature (with a 4 way contactor set) the
motor runs a bit faster but with a bit less power under load because the
series field is acting as a "field weakening" against the main field.
The more you load down the motor, the worse it's going to get. This is
why you never have field weakening in reverse on an Elec-trak.
Personally I like the E20's method of reversing the armature poles than
the E15's reversal of the field. If you reverse the field before it's
collapsed, you get a serious spike of power that tends to weld the
relay. A MOV is one way to protect against this but you usually blow up
the MOV.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since the subject of this post appeared to change, I tacked etractor on the
front for folks
that might be interested.
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60 tractor
with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron.
Tractors are an excellent application for EV technology.
I use the loader for moving stuff around, putting logs on the sawmill,
plowing snow and such, no real work like plowing the back 40 so electric
will be ideal anyway :) especially since starting the beast at 10°F could
be a 2 hour ordeal.
Lead-acid batteries will certainly be less than ideal at 10%F.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual switch
that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in copper and
fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the milling machine.
Would use a contactor to break the circuit before changing the switch
position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed ranges, and a rheostat on the
field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt position may well not be needed
but I want to ensure a real slow creep speed for positioning objects with
the loader.
------------------
John Lussmyer wrote:
Sounds like it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a low voltage
controller.
-------------------
Yes.
IMHO, it is more important to have a PWM controller on a tractor that it is
on an inexpensive
road-going EV. You may find it next to impossible to do careful work in
tight spaces with a
contactor controller on a tractor. (We tried it, not at 6V though. :^D )
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft generator?
You mention retaining the transmission, would you _need_ to reverse the
motor?
I happen to have what I'm betting is more experience than most on this
subject.
Some links to etractors I have been involved with-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/tracpage.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage1.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage2.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage3.html
http://www.renewables.com/Permaculture/ElectricTractor.htm
We dump-charged one of the tractors regularly with PV generated juice-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/CSpage.html
HTH!
----------------
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60 tractor
with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron. Seems the owner fixed the leaky
coolant pump and filled it with water to check for leaks but forgot put
coolant back in before the cold season.:( Rather then name names lets just
say transporting the dead tractor to my yard did not present much of a
problem.
I use the loader for moving stuff around, putting logs on the sawmill,
plowing snow and such, no real work like plowing the back 40 so electric
will be ideal anyway :) especially since starting the beast at 10°F could
be a 2 hour ordeal.
An aircraft generator would seem to be ideal for this application with its
constant speed and regen breaking.
Something like this one
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006020217265170&item=6-936&catname=
running on 8 6 volt batteries. Will also needed an electric pump for the
hydraulics and power steering and possibly a pump to splash oil around in
the transmission.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual switch
that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in copper and
fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the milling machine.
Would use a contactor to break the circuit before changing the switch
position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed ranges, and a rheostat on the
field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt position may well not be needed
but I want to ensure a real slow creep speed for positioning objects with
the loader.
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft generator?
Nice for plowing snow.
...
Roy LeMeur
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<< I didn't think of that. I've coasted the E20 down my hill of a driveway then
thrown it into speed L-4 (full field, no resistors) and it will skid the wheels
and throw you *hard*. So you might want a regen limit control.
On the Prizm the computer limits regen delta to an amount below what will cause
the car to go bannanas. Still you can put over 40,000 watts out to the pack
when going from 70 to 30mph; that's a lotta brake power. >>>
Reminds me how much I wish Ford put more regen in the Ranger! Does anyone know
how I can get the controller reprogrammed?
I doubt any Ford dealership's service center will change settings beyond what's
already in there, but the truck had a much higher peak current setting when it
was first developed (I was told lead-footed testers forced two decreases in
these settings, one prior to general release and another when I was leasing a
NiMH version).
If I *could* change the limits, it would be maximum regen in E and max
acceleration in D; how hard could it be to at least have more regen when the
pedal is pushed enough to turn on the brake light?!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could this be used in my 96 volt Electrica to replace the 12 volt
charger?
Calvin
'81 Jet Electrica, 96 volt
On Feb 1, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
Model VI-B62 takes 200-400Vdc input, and the 15Vdc output can be
trimmed down:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7586424501
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've posted this before, so look in the archives for more details.
The person in charge of PR is the best place to get permission.
This is the person that has something to gain by allowing you to plug in
and knows what the company has to lose by NOT allowing you to plug in. Let
your boss know that you are going to talk to the PR person about your car.
Before you ask, put together a little press package. Have pictures
of you and your car. Gather copies of any press your car has received. Find
some nice press that other similar companies have received for allowing
folks like you to plug in. Calculate the cost of electricity per day (at
the rates that the company pays for electricity.)
Read my previous posts on the subject. :^)
Bill Dube'
At 05:29 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote:
I've come to the realization, that despite my best intentions, I've been
slowly murdering my first pack. (14x8V trojans). I've reached about 4000
miles, with a daily commute of 30 miles to work (15 each way, no charge at
work). Now, my range is 30 miles best case, and I can tell, it's just
getting worse. I figure if I could charge at work, I can extend the life
of my batteries another 6 months or so. (had I done this a year ago, I
probably would have several years left).
Does anyone have some ideas I can use to "sell" the idea of letting me
charge at work?
I work at a fairly large electronics manufacturing plant, so there are
technical folks in management, but I think their desire to help will be
outweighed by their fear of litigation.
Thanks for your consideration.
Jim Seibert
'92 Celica EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Could this be used in my 96 volt Electrica to replace the 12 volt
> charger?
> Calvin
> '81 Jet Electrica, 96 volt
>
> On Feb 1, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> Model VI-B62 takes 200-400Vdc input, and the 15Vdc output can be
> trimmed down:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7586424501
>
No, it won't function below 200Vdc - I think it's called "brown-out".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a link to my project:
http://www.faculty.uaf.edu/ffmig/installed.html
There are 3 other pages to look at and the links are
located at the bottom.
What's the deal with a splash guard?
Is it necessary?
The wiring was temporary for my 24volt first ride.
Also I used those lovely bed frames!
Thanks
Mike
Fairbanks, Alaska
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The hybrids on the road today will no doubt put out less volume of
pollutants such as C02. This is directly evidenced by their lower volume of
fuel consumption per mile travelled. The unit volume of CO2 emitted is
directly related to the volume of fuel consumed by the efficiency of
combustion in the engine. My doubt is whether the efficiency of combustion
of the engine is any better (my suspicion is not) than a regularly running
and tuned ICE car. The real technology is the use of the hybrid system
whereby the engine is allowed to run in 1 of 2 states, either at its
optimally tuned efficiency or off. That fact alone I believe to be the
reason the hybrids are claimed to pollute less and why they are not subject
to testing. I suspect that if you compared the emissions from a running
hybrid and a similar sized ICE only car the %CO2 would be the same. Just
think of all the fuel you waste (and CO2 you make) by idling at lights, stop
and go driving, and the number of transitions of operating the ICE engine at
non-optimal efficiency speeds. If you were able to turn off your engine
always when stopped or coasting and only drive at the speed of optimal
efficiency of the engine, you too would get the same mileage of a "hybrid
electric vehicle." My contention is that if you can make a Honda Civic ICE
only get 60 mpg, and a current hybrid gets about 60 mpg not running all the
time, that if the hybrid car's engine did run all the time it would actually
make more pollution. If this were true then it would follow that the hybrid
car's engine, which is exempt from emission testing, while it make less
volume of CO2 might actually make it in a higher percentage to fuel consumed
than some ICE only cars.
What does this have to do with increased range. I say don't exempt the
hybrids from testing. In fact test them just like you do any gasoline ICE
car. Why should a company be able to sell you a less efficient engine even
though it makes up for the volume of pollution emitted because of the hybrid
energy use technology. If the engine was truly more efficient and the
hybrid-electric technology increases that efficiency, you should be getting
better than 60 mpg from a hybrid.
The battery-electric car which is our main point of interest though, is just
the hybrid concept with the combustion engine removed all the way back to
the power plant which I guarantee you emits less percentage of pollution per
gallon of fuel than the ICE of a car. That's why through a pure energy/cost
analysis the all electric vehicles get 3 times the mpg than even *some* of
the hybrids that enjoy no emissions testing. Granted high mpg doesn't
necessarily mean range, but higher energy density batteries will. And as
the president said, whether he intends to help it happen or not, better
batteries are on their way....
Mike,
Anchorage, AK.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Increasing Range
I was under the impression that the TOyota and Honda hybrids surpased the
emmissions requirements, receiving ultra low emmissions ratings or some
such.
> I'd be interested to see the power and torque curves of those ICE
> machines.
> It wouldn't surprise me to find that they were less efficient than some of
> the well tuned ICE only engines running around. Back in the early I
> remember having a friend that got ~60mpg in her Honda Civic. The reason I
> say this is because I'm not sure the Hybrid engines have to meet the
> strict
> emissions control restrictions the regular ICE cars do. Does anyone have
> these curves or can comment on them?
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, AK.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:55 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Increasing Range
>
>
> Does pulse and glide help ev's?
>
> http://www.metrompg.com/posts/pulse-and-glide.htm
>
>
> --- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Around Jan. 21, there was a thread called "is this a
>> good idea?" about
>> putting batteries AFTER the controller. I think Lee
>> Hart responded on Jan
>> 21. saying that it would be possible. Could you put
>> your 30 cells after the
>> controller and follow Lee's plan?
>>
>> Bill Dennis
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wish he would have given this speech five or more years ago. I would have
thought better of him and he would have had a chance to prove himself.
Instead, we find ourselves at or near Hubbert's Peak for world oil
production. The graphs I've seen clearly show world production arcing over
but with no firm indication of having reached peak production. The arc
apears that it may top around 2007 - 2008. My question to you all is this:
Will we (the world) be able to ramp up EV and plug in hybrid production to
offset both the decline in crude oil production and the increasing demand
for crude oil?
Five years ago, I would not have asked that question. I would have Googled
on Hubbert's Peak and learned why.
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I could be wrong about this, and I bring it up mainly to provoke
discussion about it, but in my opinion if the two pieces of l-channel
bolted to the end are your sole means of supporting the motor and
reacting to torque, you may be in for a surprise the first time you hit
the throttle hard. Perhaps you've already done this and proven me wrong,
but the arrangement doesn't appear very strong.
Sweet motor! I see mine is not the only Warp motor that really isn't
terribly interested in holding onto its label :o) Mine took about a
week to fall off completely. When I get around to it, a spritz of 3M
Super 77 should fix that.
I'd say a splash guard is a good idea, though better yet might be a
belly pan to make the bottom of the truck more aerodynamic. My
understanding is that this can significantly increase range.
--chris
On Thu, 2006-02-02 at 22:37 -0800, mike golub wrote:
> Here's a link to my project:
>
> http://www.faculty.uaf.edu/ffmig/installed.html
>
> There are 3 other pages to look at and the links are
> located at the bottom.
>
> What's the deal with a splash guard?
>
> Is it necessary?
>
> The wiring was temporary for my 24volt first ride.
>
> Also I used those lovely bed frames!
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
> Fairbanks, Alaska
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think perhaps the hybrids should not be exempt from emission testing,
but I think you'd find they do put out significantly less than cars
unassisted by an electric motor.
One reason is that with the Toyota powertrain at least, the engine uses
the Atkinson cycle, instead of the traditional Otto cycle. This isn't
really an option with ICE cars, because of the Atkinson's miserable
torque. The Atkinson cycle's main attribute is that the power stroke is
longer than the compression stroke. The original Atkinson engine did
this with a clever arrangement of linkages; the Toyota engine uses a
late valve closure to let some of the intake air back out into the
intake manifold before closing. The result in either case is that more
of the heat in the combusted fuel is utilized during the power stroke.
This gives much higher efficiency at the cost of power, which of course
is replaced by the electric motor which does all the real pulling.
And even if it's an Otto cycle engine (as I believe Honda uses) since
the engine does not have to provide the all the power to accelerate the
car from a stop -- a task that an electric motor performs far better --
I think this effectively sets the hybrid apart in terms of both
emissions and fuel economy. You can't compare an ICE car's performance
to what a hybrid car's would be without the electric motor, because the
motor is part of what the hybrid is. You can't compare a hybrid to an
ICE car driven only at its engine's most efficient operating point
either, because this isn't possible in a practical sense. You have to
consider both designs for their fuel consumption and emissions when
driven normally by normal people.
And I'd be pretty impressed at an ICE Honda Civic that got "only" 60
mpg. The 1.8L 2006 Civic with a 5-speed stick is rated at 30 mpg city,
40 highway.
--chris
On Thu, 2006-02-02 at 21:31 -0900, Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
> The hybrids on the road today will no doubt put out less volume of
> pollutants such as C02. This is directly evidenced by their lower volume of
> fuel consumption per mile travelled. The unit volume of CO2 emitted is
> directly related to the volume of fuel consumed by the efficiency of
> combustion in the engine. My doubt is whether the efficiency of combustion
> of the engine is any better (my suspicion is not) than a regularly running
> and tuned ICE car. The real technology is the use of the hybrid system
> whereby the engine is allowed to run in 1 of 2 states, either at its
> optimally tuned efficiency or off. That fact alone I believe to be the
> reason the hybrids are claimed to pollute less and why they are not subject
> to testing. I suspect that if you compared the emissions from a running
> hybrid and a similar sized ICE only car the %CO2 would be the same. Just
> think of all the fuel you waste (and CO2 you make) by idling at lights, stop
> and go driving, and the number of transitions of operating the ICE engine at
> non-optimal efficiency speeds. If you were able to turn off your engine
> always when stopped or coasting and only drive at the speed of optimal
> efficiency of the engine, you too would get the same mileage of a "hybrid
> electric vehicle." My contention is that if you can make a Honda Civic ICE
> only get 60 mpg, and a current hybrid gets about 60 mpg not running all the
> time, that if the hybrid car's engine did run all the time it would actually
> make more pollution. If this were true then it would follow that the hybrid
> car's engine, which is exempt from emission testing, while it make less
> volume of CO2 might actually make it in a higher percentage to fuel consumed
> than some ICE only cars.
>
> What does this have to do with increased range. I say don't exempt the
> hybrids from testing. In fact test them just like you do any gasoline ICE
> car. Why should a company be able to sell you a less efficient engine even
> though it makes up for the volume of pollution emitted because of the hybrid
> energy use technology. If the engine was truly more efficient and the
> hybrid-electric technology increases that efficiency, you should be getting
> better than 60 mpg from a hybrid.
>
> The battery-electric car which is our main point of interest though, is just
> the hybrid concept with the combustion engine removed all the way back to
> the power plant which I guarantee you emits less percentage of pollution per
> gallon of fuel than the ICE of a car. That's why through a pure energy/cost
> analysis the all electric vehicles get 3 times the mpg than even *some* of
> the hybrids that enjoy no emissions testing. Granted high mpg doesn't
> necessarily mean range, but higher energy density batteries will. And as
> the president said, whether he intends to help it happen or not, better
> batteries are on their way....
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, AK.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:19 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Increasing Range
>
>
> I was under the impression that the TOyota and Honda hybrids surpased the
> emmissions requirements, receiving ultra low emmissions ratings or some
> such.
>
> > I'd be interested to see the power and torque curves of those ICE
> > machines.
> > It wouldn't surprise me to find that they were less efficient than some of
> > the well tuned ICE only engines running around. Back in the early I
> > remember having a friend that got ~60mpg in her Honda Civic. The reason I
> > say this is because I'm not sure the Hybrid engines have to meet the
> > strict
> > emissions control restrictions the regular ICE cars do. Does anyone have
> > these curves or can comment on them?
> >
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, AK.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of mike golub
> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:55 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: Increasing Range
> >
> >
> > Does pulse and glide help ev's?
> >
> > http://www.metrompg.com/posts/pulse-and-glide.htm
> >
> >
> > --- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Around Jan. 21, there was a thread called "is this a
> >> good idea?" about
> >> putting batteries AFTER the controller. I think Lee
> >> Hart responded on Jan
> >> 21. saying that it would be possible. Could you put
> >> your 30 cells after the
> >> controller and follow Lee's plan?
> >>
> >> Bill Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
