EV Digest 5145
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: how to ask to charge at work
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Emoo
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) For Your Viewing Pleasure..........BBB an' Stuff
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Hybrid efficiency, was: Increasing Range
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Conversation with Firefly Mil Ovan
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Emoo ....E mows!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Aircraft Gen. Motor WAS Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Aircraft Gen. Motor WAS Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Etractor, was Aircraft Gen. Motor etc.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Hybrid efficiency, was: Increasing Range
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: For Your Viewing Pleasure..........BBB an' Stuff
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Hybrid efficiency, was: Increasing Range
by "Alaric G. Weigle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Etractor, was Aircraft Gen. Motor etc.
by Sean Albiston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 2/1/06, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am temporary running a 9-inch while I have my 11.5 inch GE in maintenance
> which ran
> for 30 years. My El Camino is heaver than your truck, but I can run at 60
> mph at 180
> amps at 170 volts in 4th gear!!
>
> With the Warp 9, I running at 25 mph at 200 amps at 170 volts in 2nd gear
> which is
> ridiculous, now I know how its feels to drive a EV as many of the EV'ers with
> a smaller
> motor, that may even be in a light weight vehicles that have to stay in 2nd
> or 3rd gear.
You're right it's ridiculous Roland, there is something seriously
wrong with that setup if it's taking 34kW to go at 25mph. That's why
it's running hot and eating the brushes too. Are you sure the motor's
field is connected correctly, and isn't shorted out internally or
something?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi to you all,
Before you ask, put together a little press package. Have pictures of
you and your car. Gather copies of any press your car has received.
Find some nice press that other similar companies have received for
allowing folks like you to plug in. Calculate the cost of electricity
per day (at the rates that the company pays for electricity.)
http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/2005/10/03/news/news03.txt
This article shows me plugging in at my day job. I think it has been a
positive PR thing overall for them.
It takes contacting the right person on the right day, mixed with a bit
of luck. I think Bill's ideas are pretty sound, although I didn't
contact the PR department first. I'm not sure if the outcome would have
been any different.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I aquired a dead rotary mower for converson to electric and wanted to
ask the group if they had a range idea for such a beast.
This is simply a walk behind 20 or 22" cut mower and my yard is track
house small. I would guess an hour of run time would be fine.
I am also guessing about 1-2 HP electric to replace the 5Hp brigs (1hp
if I dont hook up the powered wheels)
How many AH do I need?
1 orbital and a 12V motor? easy to charge.
10-20 BB600's? robust, won't mind the cold or winter monthes of sitting
off charge.
What about a controller? A ford starter solinoid isn't rated for
continuous duty, I should go to the golf cart shop and get something better.
Is Series wound ok, or will it's rpm be to wild, perhaps blowwing up due
to over rev?
Thanks for any and all suggestions :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Evan,
This is a new motor, and the field to commentator connections are correct. The
first thing I did was to check the continuity of the field circuits and brush
circuits and every thing read 0.00 ohms to ground and to each other.
I E-mail Net-Gain about this, and they still did not reply. Anyway, when I get
my GE motor back in, I may have Jim Hurst look at it.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Evan Tuer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
On 2/1/06, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> I am temporary running a 9-inch while I have my 11.5 inch GE in maintenance
which ran
> for 30 years. My El Camino is heaver than your truck, but I can run at 60
mph at 180
> amps at 170 volts in 4th gear!!
>
> With the Warp 9, I running at 25 mph at 200 amps at 170 volts in 2nd gear
which is
> ridiculous, now I know how its feels to drive a EV as many of the EV'ers
with a smaller
> motor, that may even be in a light weight vehicles that have to stay in 2nd
or 3rd gear.
You're right it's ridiculous Roland, there is something seriously
wrong with that setup if it's taking 34kW to go at 25mph. That's why
it's running hot and eating the brushes too. Are you sure the motor's
field is connected correctly, and isn't shorted out internally or
something?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
At Last ! A Link that should get by the Spam, an attachments police, to be
able to be opened. Sorry the pix are crappy, cheepo camera I had to take apart
in the dark to get the damn film out, rewind by feel, stuff. If you ever
developed your own 35mm film, you know what I mean!
Seeya
Bob
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobev99/album?.dir=/688e&.src=ph&.tok=phO6gWEB2bKrU3EN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
> Hello Evan,
>
> This is a new motor, and the field to commentator connections are correct.
The first thing I did was to check the continuity of the field circuits and
brush circuits and every thing read 0.00 ohms to ground and to each other.
>
> I E-mail Net-Gain about this, and they still did not reply. Anyway, when
I get my GE motor back in, I may have Jim Hurst look at it.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Evan Tuer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
>
>
> On 2/1/06, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> wrote:
>
> > I am temporary running a 9-inch while I have my 11.5 inch GE in
maintenance which ran
> > for 30 years. My El Camino is heaver than your truck, but I can run
at 60 mph at 180
> > amps at 170 volts in 4th gear!!
> > Yikes! That's a tad high! I go at 200 amps, 120 volts in a 3100 lb
Rabbit, about 65-70 or 85 at 250 amps, 5 th gear!
> > With the Warp 9, I running at 25 mph at 200 amps at 170 volts in 2nd
gear which is
> > ridiculous, now I know how its feels to drive a EV as many of the
EV'ers with a smaller
> > motor, that may even be in a light weight vehicles that have to stay
in 2nd or 3rd gear.
I would think to go 25 youwould use, maybe 50 or less amps, EVen in
a heavy EFP Led Sled.
>
> You're right it's ridiculous Roland, there is something seriously
> wrong with that setup if it's taking 34kW to go at 25mph. That's why
> it's running hot and eating the brushes too. Are you sure the motor's
> field is connected correctly, and isn't shorted out internally or
> something?
>
Brusth timing off. Good point. How many amps to just run it in
neutral?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One of the problems with testing the Hybrid's emissions is
that the current way of smog testing would need to be changed
to allow testing the hybrids.
Don't know if you ever stood next to the bench that the car is
run at when testing for smog - what do they do? Yes: run it at
constant (low) speed. What does the hybrid do when running at
low (constant speed)? Bingo - switch off it's engine.
They CANNOT test hybrid's smog emissions with the current
test setup and protocol used in every smog station, because
almost all tests would register 0 emissions, no matter how
good or bad the engine actually is.
(Prius was designed for lowest possible emissions, the low fuel
usage is just a nice side-effect of focussing on the real problem)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Robison
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 1:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hybrid efficiency, was: Increasing Range
I think perhaps the hybrids should not be exempt from emission testing,
but I think you'd find they do put out significantly less than cars
unassisted by an electric motor.
One reason is that with the Toyota powertrain at least, the engine uses
the Atkinson cycle, instead of the traditional Otto cycle. This isn't
really an option with ICE cars, because of the Atkinson's miserable
torque. The Atkinson cycle's main attribute is that the power stroke is
longer than the compression stroke. The original Atkinson engine did
this with a clever arrangement of linkages; the Toyota engine uses a
late valve closure to let some of the intake air back out into the
intake manifold before closing. The result in either case is that more
of the heat in the combusted fuel is utilized during the power stroke.
This gives much higher efficiency at the cost of power, which of course
is replaced by the electric motor which does all the real pulling.
And even if it's an Otto cycle engine (as I believe Honda uses) since
the engine does not have to provide the all the power to accelerate the
car from a stop -- a task that an electric motor performs far better --
I think this effectively sets the hybrid apart in terms of both
emissions and fuel economy. You can't compare an ICE car's performance
to what a hybrid car's would be without the electric motor, because the
motor is part of what the hybrid is. You can't compare a hybrid to an
ICE car driven only at its engine's most efficient operating point
either, because this isn't possible in a practical sense. You have to
consider both designs for their fuel consumption and emissions when
driven normally by normal people.
And I'd be pretty impressed at an ICE Honda Civic that got "only" 60
mpg. The 1.8L 2006 Civic with a 5-speed stick is rated at 30 mpg city,
40 highway.
--chris
On Thu, 2006-02-02 at 21:31 -0900, Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
> The hybrids on the road today will no doubt put out less volume of
> pollutants such as C02. This is directly evidenced by their lower volume
of
> fuel consumption per mile travelled. The unit volume of CO2 emitted is
> directly related to the volume of fuel consumed by the efficiency of
> combustion in the engine. My doubt is whether the efficiency of
combustion
> of the engine is any better (my suspicion is not) than a regularly running
> and tuned ICE car. The real technology is the use of the hybrid system
> whereby the engine is allowed to run in 1 of 2 states, either at its
> optimally tuned efficiency or off. That fact alone I believe to be the
> reason the hybrids are claimed to pollute less and why they are not
subject
> to testing. I suspect that if you compared the emissions from a running
> hybrid and a similar sized ICE only car the %CO2 would be the same. Just
> think of all the fuel you waste (and CO2 you make) by idling at lights,
stop
> and go driving, and the number of transitions of operating the ICE engine
at
> non-optimal efficiency speeds. If you were able to turn off your engine
> always when stopped or coasting and only drive at the speed of optimal
> efficiency of the engine, you too would get the same mileage of a "hybrid
> electric vehicle." My contention is that if you can make a Honda Civic
ICE
> only get 60 mpg, and a current hybrid gets about 60 mpg not running all
the
> time, that if the hybrid car's engine did run all the time it would
actually
> make more pollution. If this were true then it would follow that the
hybrid
> car's engine, which is exempt from emission testing, while it make less
> volume of CO2 might actually make it in a higher percentage to fuel
consumed
> than some ICE only cars.
>
> What does this have to do with increased range. I say don't exempt the
> hybrids from testing. In fact test them just like you do any gasoline ICE
> car. Why should a company be able to sell you a less efficient engine
even
> though it makes up for the volume of pollution emitted because of the
hybrid
> energy use technology. If the engine was truly more efficient and the
> hybrid-electric technology increases that efficiency, you should be
getting
> better than 60 mpg from a hybrid.
>
> The battery-electric car which is our main point of interest though, is
just
> the hybrid concept with the combustion engine removed all the way back to
> the power plant which I guarantee you emits less percentage of pollution
per
> gallon of fuel than the ICE of a car. That's why through a pure
energy/cost
> analysis the all electric vehicles get 3 times the mpg than even *some* of
> the hybrids that enjoy no emissions testing. Granted high mpg doesn't
> necessarily mean range, but higher energy density batteries will. And as
> the president said, whether he intends to help it happen or not, better
> batteries are on their way....
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, AK.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:19 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Increasing Range
>
>
> I was under the impression that the TOyota and Honda hybrids surpased the
> emmissions requirements, receiving ultra low emmissions ratings or some
> such.
>
> > I'd be interested to see the power and torque curves of those ICE
> > machines.
> > It wouldn't surprise me to find that they were less efficient than some
of
> > the well tuned ICE only engines running around. Back in the early I
> > remember having a friend that got ~60mpg in her Honda Civic. The reason
I
> > say this is because I'm not sure the Hybrid engines have to meet the
> > strict
> > emissions control restrictions the regular ICE cars do. Does anyone
have
> > these curves or can comment on them?
> >
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, AK.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of mike golub
> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:55 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: Increasing Range
> >
> >
> > Does pulse and glide help ev's?
> >
> > http://www.metrompg.com/posts/pulse-and-glide.htm
> >
> >
> > --- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Around Jan. 21, there was a thread called "is this a
> >> good idea?" about
> >> putting batteries AFTER the controller. I think Lee
> >> Hart responded on Jan
> >> 21. saying that it would be possible. Could you put
> >> your 30 cells after the
> >> controller and follow Lee's plan?
> >>
> >> Bill Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 10:07:46 -0500
From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Conversation with Firefly Mil Ovan
"They have allocated $2.5M for rapid production of the Firefly battery.
If that comes off we will be one step closer to an EV world."
Read Noel Adams's conversation with
Firefly Senior Vice President
Mil Ovan:
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/firefly_energy.html
(ET exclusive)
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jeff an' All;
Been there, done that! You don't NEED a honking BIG motor, well, maybe
Steve Clunn's 8 inch motor on a Dixie Chopper, excepted. I built several
push mowers, starting off with a 12inch push mower in "Nam, with a little
fist size DC fan motor, plywood bed and sharpened shipping steel banding as
a blade. Later upgrades, stateside were Permag motors, starter size, 12
volts and a Garden tracter battery, lightweight or a gp 22 dyehard. When the
mower spins up, it doesn't use much juice especially if ya keep the blade
SHARP!I had a great, wish I still had it, homemade permag motor with a auto
12 volt armature and a made up field.Ran this one on several differant
mowers over the years. I THINK I gave it away years ago to a buddy , to
build a go kart for his kid?
So ya don't need a Ford Starter,Save that for a go kart! A modest 12 volt
permag of shunt would work. I just had a battery clip thing to turn it on, a
12 volt solenoid, would work fine, I used a knife switch on my 'Deluxe" one
later on.Radio Crap has small double pole knife switches, less wiring.If ya
go with a series motor, go with a rather heavy, Gas mower blade with a bit
of" Pitch" they call it, looks sorta like an Airplane propeller, it is a
load for the series motor, so it doesn't overspeed.Range, with an Orb,
probably better than an hour?I used to do about an acre.
The only way to Mow!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: Emoo
> I aquired a dead rotary mower for converson to electric and wanted to
> ask the group if they had a range idea for such a beast.
>
> This is simply a walk behind 20 or 22" cut mower and my yard is track
> house small. I would guess an hour of run time would be fine.
>
> I am also guessing about 1-2 HP electric to replace the 5Hp brigs (1hp
> if I dont hook up the powered wheels)
>
> How many AH do I need?
> 1 orbital and a 12V motor? easy to charge.
> 10-20 BB600's? robust, won't mind the cold or winter monthes of sitting
> off charge.
> What about a controller? A ford starter solinoid isn't rated for
> continuous duty, I should go to the golf cart shop and get something
better.
> Is Series wound ok, or will it's rpm be to wild, perhaps blowwing up due
> to over rev?
>
> Thanks for any and all suggestions :-)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:13 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote:
At 03:58 PM 2/2/2006, Andre' Blanchard wrote:
At 01:29 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote:
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual
switch that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in copper
and fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the milling machine.
Sounds like it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a low voltage
controller.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I
dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
While that is an option, I hesitate because of the likely hood of "events"
while getting a project like this all up and running, large metal contacts
have a much better chance of surviving.:) And a controller which can be
repaired with a screwdriver, pliers, and a file, fits much better with the
character of the tractor.
And the more I think about it regen or at least the ability to hold a
constant speed with changing positive and negative loads is needed.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:48 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote:
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60 tractor
with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron. Seems the owner fixed the leaky
coolant pump and filled it with water to check for leaks but forgot put
coolant back in before the cold season.:( Rather then name names lets
just say transporting the dead tractor to my yard did not present much of
a problem.
Oh you lucky thing. A loader sounds like a nice addition to the universe.
An aircraft generator would seem to be ideal for this application with
its constant speed and regen breaking.
Something like this one
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006020217265170&item=6-936&catname=
running on 8 6 volt batteries. Will also needed an electric pump for the
hydraulics and power steering and possibly a pump to splash oil around in
the transmission.
Regen on a tractor is great. You basically want to go one speed up hills
and down, and a shunt motor with a small series compensation field will
fit the bill very well. No need for a series motor.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual
switch that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in copper
and fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the milling
machine. Would use a contactor to break the circuit before changing the
switch position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed ranges, and a
rheostat on the field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt position may
well not be needed but I want to ensure a real slow creep speed for
positioning objects with the loader.
You could do that, or you could just do the Elec-trak trick with resistors
on speeds 1-3, full power on speed 4, and some field weakening resistors
on 5-8. Yes this might seem inefficient at first glance but really think
about it for a bit: This is a tractor. It's going to be going in the same
speed all day to mow, the same speed to till, and the same speed to rip
around the yard from point a to b. I almost *never* use the resistors for
more than startup; it's gear L-full to mow, D-full to travel, LL-Full for
snowblowing. The only time I have sat in speed 1,2 is when I am tilling,
and to be honest the tiller moves you forward.
Yes that works on a mower, what I am thinking about is 1500lbs on the
loader and I want to move it just 2" forward while the wheels are climbing
out of a runt in the ground.
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft
generator? Nice for plowing snow.
Shunt motors are easy to reverse; you have two options:
1) Reverse the polarity of the field
2) Reverse the polarity of the armature.
Shunt motors tend to run "better" in one direction than the other mainly
because of the little compensation field in series with the motor. On the
E20, when you reverse the armature (with a 4 way contactor set) the motor
runs a bit faster but with a bit less power under load because the series
field is acting as a "field weakening" against the main field. The more
you load down the motor, the worse it's going to get. This is why you
never have field weakening in reverse on an Elec-trak.
Personally I like the E20's method of reversing the armature poles than
the E15's reversal of the field. If you reverse the field before it's
collapsed, you get a serious spike of power that tends to weld the relay.
A MOV is one way to protect against this but you usually blow up the MOV.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
You say on the E20 reversing the armature causes the motor to run
faster. Is it reversing just the armature or the armature and the series
field? If it is reversing just the armature with respect to the series and
shunt fields and the brushes are in a neutral position, it should run
equally well in both directions I would think.
The problem I was thinking of is that the aircraft gen's I have seen do not
make both ends of the armature and field externally available. And
internally they very well packed with the windings all wrapped up. To
reverse just the armature would require finding where the armature and the
series and shunt fields are connected inside.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:02 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote:
Since the subject of this post appeared to change, I tacked etractor on
the front for folks
that might be interested.
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60 tractor
with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron.
Tractors are an excellent application for EV technology.
I use the loader for moving stuff around, putting logs on the sawmill,
plowing snow and such, no real work like plowing the back 40 so electric
will be ideal anyway :) especially since starting the beast at 10°F could
be a 2 hour ordeal.
Lead-acid batteries will certainly be less than ideal at 10%F.
For cold weather I have considered a well insulated battery box, park the
tractor alongside the house, and run a small insulated duck from the house
to the battery box with a small blower to blow warm air from the house into
the box. Electric heaters are out, PV and wind generator will not support
them.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual
switch that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in copper
and fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the milling machine.
Would use a contactor to break the circuit before changing the switch
position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed ranges, and a rheostat on
the field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt position may well not be
needed but I want to ensure a real slow creep speed for positioning
objects with the loader.
------------------
John Lussmyer wrote:
Sounds like it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a low voltage
controller.
-------------------
Yes.
IMHO, it is more important to have a PWM controller on a tractor that it
is on an inexpensive
road-going EV. You may find it next to impossible to do careful work in
tight spaces with a
contactor controller on a tractor. (We tried it, not at 6V though. :^D )
Any suggestions on a controller that will do the constant speed with
positive and negative torque from the motor?
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft generator?
You mention retaining the transmission, would you _need_ to reverse the motor?
Have you ever used a 2 cylinder JD with a loader? There had to be an
arachnid on the design team, I would like to improve on that part a little.:)
I happen to have what I'm betting is more experience than most on this
subject.
Some links to etractors I have been involved with-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/tracpage.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage1.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage2.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage3.html
http://www.renewables.com/Permaculture/ElectricTractor.htm
We dump-charged one of the tractors regularly with PV generated juice-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/CSpage.html
HTH!
----------------
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60 tractor
with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron. Seems the owner fixed the leaky
coolant pump and filled it with water to check for leaks but forgot put
coolant back in before the cold season.:( Rather then name names lets
just say transporting the dead tractor to my yard did not present much of
a problem.
I use the loader for moving stuff around, putting logs on the sawmill,
plowing snow and such, no real work like plowing the back 40 so electric
will be ideal anyway :) especially since starting the beast at 10°F could
be a 2 hour ordeal.
An aircraft generator would seem to be ideal for this application with
its constant speed and regen breaking.
Something like this one
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006020217265170&item=6-936&catname=
running on 8 6 volt batteries. Will also needed an electric pump for the
hydraulics and power steering and possibly a pump to splash oil around in
the transmission.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual
switch that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in copper
and fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the milling machine.
Would use a contactor to break the circuit before changing the switch
position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed ranges, and a rheostat on
the field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt position may well not be
needed but I want to ensure a real slow creep speed for positioning
objects with the loader.
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft generator?
Nice for plowing snow.
...
Roy LeMeur
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>One of the problems with testing the Hybrid's emissions is
>that the current way of smog testing would need to be changed
>to allow testing the hybrids.
Nevada has. Now for cars just a couple of years old...they us the OBDII
protocol and the new one that i cant remember. Basically the car does the
diagnostic of the engine and if nothing is wrong and all tests have been
run...the car passes. No probes, no dyno, nothing.
>I think perhaps the hybrids should not be exempt from emission testing,
>but I think you'd find they do put out significantly less than cars
>unassisted by an electric motor.
From what my mechanic told me, hybrids in Nevada are not subject to smogs for
2 years like the rest of new cars. At 2 yrs old, they get the same OBDII
computer check as the rest. The smog machine cop-puter is preprogrammed to get
the correct info out of the computer. Infact, it also draws battery information
out so it can be analayized as well. I suspect that is incase your pack is crap
and the engine is running more and more.
Paul
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Feb 3, 2006 6:36 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: For Your Viewing Pleasure..........BBB an' Stuff
>
>Hi EVerybody;
>
> At Last ! A Link that should get by the Spam, an attachments police, to be
> able to be opened. Sorry the pix are crappy, cheepo camera I had to take
> apart in the dark to get the damn film out, rewind by feel, stuff. If you
> ever developed your own 35mm film, you know what I mean!
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
>http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobev99/album?.dir=/688e&.src=ph&.tok=phO6gWEB2bKrU3EN
>
Thanks Bob. Jerry, teriffic start!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Emissions testing varies greatly state by state and county by county.
In Milwaukee, WI all vehicles are placed on a dyno and run up to highway
speeds (50mph), held there, and then brought back down. Samples are
taken at multiple points along the chassis and from the tailpipe during
the entire process. Not only is this one of the toughest emissions
testing systems in the country, but the weather in WI makes it all the
more difficult to get your car to pass (if tested in the winter).
In Austin, TX modern vehicles are hooked up to an OBDII diagnostic
utility while older vehciles are revved to 2000rpm (typical cruising
RPMs) while stationary and emissions are measured from the tailpipe.
-Alaric
Cor van de Water wrote:
One of the problems with testing the Hybrid's emissions is
that the current way of smog testing would need to be changed
to allow testing the hybrids.
Don't know if you ever stood next to the bench that the car is
run at when testing for smog - what do they do? Yes: run it at
constant (low) speed. What does the hybrid do when running at
low (constant speed)? Bingo - switch off it's engine.
They CANNOT test hybrid's smog emissions with the current
test setup and protocol used in every smog station, because
almost all tests would register 0 emissions, no matter how
good or bad the engine actually is.
(Prius was designed for lowest possible emissions, the low fuel
usage is just a nice side-effect of focussing on the real problem
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
> Hello Evan,
>
> This is a new motor, and the field to commentator connections are correct.
The first thing I did was to check the continuity of the field circuits and
brush circuits and every thing read 0.00 ohms to ground and to each other.
>
> I E-mail Net-Gain about this, and they still did not reply. Anyway, when
I get my GE motor back in, I may have Jim Hurst look at it.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Evan Tuer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
>
>
> On 2/1/06, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>
> > I am temporary running a 9-inch while I have my 11.5 inch GE in
maintenance which ran
> > for 30 years. My El Camino is heaver than your truck, but I can run
at 60 mph at 180
> > amps at 170 volts in 4th gear!!
> > Yikes! That's a tad high! I go at 200 amps, 120 volts in a 3100 lb
Rabbit, about 65-70 or 85 at 250 amps, 5 th gear!
> > With the Warp 9, I running at 25 mph at 200 amps at 170 volts in 2nd
gear which is
> > ridiculous, now I know how its feels to drive a EV as many of the
EV'ers with a smaller
> > motor, that may even be in a light weight vehicles that have to stay
in 2nd or 3rd gear.
I would think to go 25 youwould use, maybe 50 or less amps, EVen in
a heavy EFP Led Sled.
>
> You're right it's ridiculous Roland, there is something seriously
> wrong with that setup if it's taking 34kW to go at 25mph. That's why
> it's running hot and eating the brushes too. Are you sure the motor's
> field is connected correctly, and isn't shorted out internally or
> something?
>
Brusth timing off. Good point. How many amps to just run it in
neutral?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
> Hello Evan,
>
> This is a new motor, and the field to commentator connections are correct.
The first thing I did was to check the continuity of the field circuits and
brush circuits and every thing read 0.00 ohms to ground and to each other.
>
> I E-mail Net-Gain about this, and they still did not reply. Anyway, when
I get my GE motor back in, I may have Jim Hurst look at it.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Evan Tuer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
>
>
> On 2/1/06, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>
> > I am temporary running a 9-inch while I have my 11.5 inch GE in
maintenance which ran
> > for 30 years. My El Camino is heaver than your truck, but I can run
at 60 mph at 180
> > amps at 170 volts in 4th gear!!
> > Yikes! That's a tad high! I go at 200 amps, 120 volts in a 3100 lb
Rabbit, about 65-70 or 85 at 250 amps, 5 th gear!
> > With the Warp 9, I running at 25 mph at 200 amps at 170 volts in 2nd
gear which is
> > ridiculous, now I know how its feels to drive a EV as many of the
EV'ers with a smaller
> > motor, that may even be in a light weight vehicles that have to stay
in 2nd or 3rd gear.
I would think to go 25 youwould use, maybe 50 or less amps, EVen in
a heavy EFP Led Sled.
>
> You're right it's ridiculous Roland, there is something seriously
> wrong with that setup if it's taking 34kW to go at 25mph. That's why
> it's running hot and eating the brushes too. Are you sure the motor's
> field is connected correctly, and isn't shorted out internally or
> something?
>
Brusth timing off. Good point. How many amps to just run it in
neutral?
The brush timing is fixed in this motor.
In neutral it draws 8.4 amps at 1000 rpm
and 30 amps at 2000 rpm
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I joined the ev list particularly in hopes of keeping tabs on the
prospects of Etractors - I'm a small vegetable farmer. I've cc: a
number of other folks who have in the past shown interest in the topic
of Electric tractors to Mr. Heckeroth at www.renewables.com . Did an
actual electric tractor lists serve ever get created? I would likely
purchase an electric tractor today, even if it cost twice a standard
diesel compact. I would build one myself, but am far too busy.
thanks, sean albiston
-----------below is a post from the Electric Vehicle list
serve---------------
Since the subject of this post appeared to change, I tacked etractor on
the front for folks
that might be interested.
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60
tractor with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron.
Tractors are an excellent application for EV technology.
I use the loader for moving stuff around, putting logs on the sawmill,
plowing snow and such, no real work like plowing the back 40 so
electric will be ideal anyway :) especially since starting the beast
at 10°F could be a 2 hour ordeal.
Lead-acid batteries will certainly be less than ideal at 10%F.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual
switch that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in
copper and fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the
milling machine. Would use a contactor to break the circuit before
changing the switch position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed
ranges, and a rheostat on the field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt
position may well not be needed but I want to ensure a real slow creep
speed for positioning objects with the loader.
------------------
John Lussmyer wrote:
Sounds like it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a low voltage
controller.
-------------------
Yes.
IMHO, it is more important to have a PWM controller on a tractor that it
is on an inexpensive
road-going EV. You may find it next to impossible to do careful work in
tight spaces with a
contactor controller on a tractor. (We tried it, not at 6V though. :^D )
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft generator?
You mention retaining the transmission, would you _need_ to reverse the
motor?
I happen to have what I'm betting is more experience than most on this
subject.
Some links to etractors I have been involved with-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/tracpage.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage1.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage2.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage3.html
http://www.renewables.com/Permaculture/ElectricTractor.htm
We dump-charged one of the tractors regularly with PV generated juice-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/CSpage.html
HTH!
----------------
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
I have recently discovered my next EV conversion, a John Deere 60
tractor with loader, about 6000 lbs of iron. Seems the owner fixed
the leaky coolant pump and filled it with water to check for leaks but
forgot put coolant back in before the cold season.:( Rather then name
names lets just say transporting the dead tractor to my yard did not
present much of a problem.
I use the loader for moving stuff around, putting logs on the sawmill,
plowing snow and such, no real work like plowing the back 40 so
electric will be ideal anyway :) especially since starting the beast
at 10°F could be a 2 hour ordeal.
An aircraft generator would seem to be ideal for this application with
its constant speed and regen breaking.
Something like this one
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006020217265170&item=6-936&catname=
running on 8 6 volt batteries. Will also needed an electric pump for
the hydraulics and power steering and possibly a pump to splash oil
around in the transmission.
I have a good start on a CAD design for a 16 pole 4 position manual
switch that I should be able to build for a few hundred dollars in
copper and fiberglass board, and a few weekends in front of the
milling machine. Would use a contactor to break the circuit before
changing the switch position between 6v, 12v, 24v, and 48v speed
ranges, and a rheostat on the field for fine tuning speed. The 6 volt
position may well not be needed but I want to ensure a real slow creep
speed for positioning objects with the loader.
Question is how hard is it to electrically reverse an aircraft
generator? Nice for plowing snow.
...
Roy LeMeur
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
