EV Digest 5150
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hybrid Efficiency vs Barbeque Sauce
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric 'Power Breakfast' this Sunday at the Village Inn, Portland
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Fw: Craigslist: 192 VOLT ELECTRIC: FORD ESCORT conversion - $500 (san
anselmo)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Where to buy KiloVac Contactors?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Hybrid efficiency, was: Increasing Range
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Regen settings, was Re: E-Volks Geo Metro Conversion
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: 1986 Toyota Pickup update/pictures
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Regen settings
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Budget EV clutch/clutchless motor adapter solution
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 24 volt charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) OFF TOPIC! (was Re: Hybrid efficiency, was: Increasing Range)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Possible conversion candidates. Arcane. One with CVT.
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: GM analysis of Prius, was: Hybrid efficiency
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Emoo
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Regen settings
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) wind damage
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: GM analysis of Prius
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Low voltage AC conversion update and progress report 04/02/06.
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Current Eliminator Dragster News
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) windy night in Kingston
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: GM analysis of Prius, was: Hybrid efficiency
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New Kits
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: New Kits
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Ultimate end for the old ICE
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Hello to All, Neon John wrote:....but you're an odd-ball. At least you could be honest enough to acknowledge that.OK, I admit it, I'm an odd-ball! Consider this my public admission. See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hello to All, I had mistakenly written: >This Sunday, Feb. 8th, we are having another one of our fun electric >breakfasts here in Portland at the Village Inn restaurant at 102nd & >S.E. Stark St. at 9:00 AM. From Father Time:HI- CORRECTION SUNDAY FEB.5th F.T.Ralph Merwin wrote:Yes, I got the date wrong...Da-ooh! It's tomorrow, Sunday Feb. 5th! Glad to hear Ralph's going to be there. Victor?I'll be there. RalphSee Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I could make this into working vehicle for someone interested in an electric vehicle. Cost would be around 3k to 5k depending on battery & motor controller choice. It would be peppy if the orginal voltage is kept. Lawrence Rhodes..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:44 AMSubject: Craigslist: 192 VOLT ELECTRIC: FORD ESCORT conversion - $500 (san anselmo)Found posting as shown below my sig. Cor van de Water Systems Architect Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925 Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com http://www.craigslist.org/nby/car/130545888.html 192 VOLT ELECTRIC: FORD ESCORT conversion - $500 (san anselmo) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006-02-01, 9:23PM PST ZERO EMISSIONS ELECTRIC VEHICLE 1986 Ford Escort Wagon Converted a dozen or so years ago by a hobbyist. 1FABP3495GW207303 It is presently registered with DMV in NON-OP That means that it is approved by the DMV. The title is clear Needs a motor controller and batteries. A great project car for school or hobbyist. General Electric SERIES TRACTION MOTOR Model: 5BT1346B50 Horsepower: 20.9 @ 4700 RPM - 90 Volts - 184 Amps The motor is worth $500! Call: 415-785-3317
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Don't use this contactor above 120vdc. Lawrence Rhodes...----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:38 AM Subject: Where to buy KiloVac Contactors?Anyone seen or used these KiloVac LEV200 series contactors? http://www.tycoelectronics.com/prodimages/pdf/LEV200_ds_9-1773439-1.pdf "Suited for power switching applications, KILOVAC LEV200 is offered in upright or side-mount attachment styles with hermetically sealed construction. Intrinsically safe product, able to be used in explosive and harsh environments, is rated to continuously carry 500 A @ 320 Vdc when using 400 mcm conductors at 65°C. It employs one Form X (SPST-NO-DM) maincontact and can interrupt up to 2,000 A @ 320 Vdc. Contact voltage rating is12-900 Vdc. The KILOVAC LEV200 contactor is priced at $42.05 at the 100 piece quantity level. Lead times are typically two to four weeks." I can't find anyone who deals these in small quantity :-( I wonder what the 1 each price would be.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 06:52:58PM -0800, Jeff Shanab wrote: >> I would not stay in a locked garage with a car that reads zero >> emmisions, it is still using up the oxygen and emmiting CO2, we just >> don't track those as emmisions. > > >Better make sure you check the emissions from your real world car before you >begin your test. As the link I posted earlier shows, more then half the >pollution generated by ICEs is caused by the degradation of emissions control >systems. I said "a car that READS zero" >> One step furthur, replace those fuel >> engines with 20 people, You will suffocate as fast. >> > > <..snip..> >> I guess we can't compare a battery, which is storage of energy NOT >> storage of fuel. You would have to bring the power plant inside your >> garage. > > >Why didn't you bring the refinery, diesel powered super tanker, and dozens >of simi-trucks in for the ICE test? Agreed, point was made earlier >> >> This made me think of the whole phrase "Hydrogen Fuel Cell electric >> vehicle." Hydrogen is considerd an energy carrier because we transfer >> energy with it by putting energy into creating it at the other end, but >> we use it as a fuel, which increases the worlds CO2 output, the canery >> in the garage still dies. > > >The output from a hydrogen fed fuel cell is heat, electricity, and water. >There are no CO2 emissions from the cell. All CO2 generated by a fuel cell <is upstream. Although the canary may still die from asphyxiation, as a >fuel cell will still consume the O2 in the air. Oops, you are correct I was thinking all the way back to "where do we get the hydrogen from"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Cor van de Water wrote:While rear wheel brake-out is a bad thing, I do not think you can lock up a wheel with regen, as the regen will completely cut out as soon as the wheel stops spinning, so there is automatically an ABS function on regen.You can definitely do it with a shunt motor; I have skidded the wheels down the driveway after letting it roll then dropping it into speed 4, L gear (full field, full regen). I've also chirped the Prizm's tires using regen and L coming down a snowy hill. Never had a rain problem.My S-10 US Electricar has a configurable controller and I have been experimenting with different regen patterns over the past week.Is this the Waverunner? Very cool.Even scarier were the times that I took off with freshly charged batteries and had to brake sharply, only to find that the almost full batteries could not take the regen current, so the voltage rose to astronomically high levels (over 420V) and the controller reported an overvoltage condition and shut down (dropped the contactors).Wow, that is terrible. GM may be an annoying company, but they *really* do think things out when they put their mind to it. The Dolphin that they went and built is a really good design and well thought out in this regard.Regen is basically controlled by a pot attached to the brake pedal to measure pressure, and wiring into the "gear selector". When rolling around in D, it limits regen to around 10% or so max. When braking it increases regen to smoothly mesh with the main brakes. It uses the charge profile on regen to limit battery pack voltage to 363 volts, which keeps the pack from overcharging and keeps the current at that point to below the recombination level of the batteries.If you drop the car into "2", then the computer re-maps the motor torque curves for driving, and increases the coast regen to something like 30%. If you drop it into L, regen increases to 60% on decel/coast, and the torque maps are for power over speed. Feels a lot like an ICE car actually; I have crawled up ice covered hills in "L".Also if regen current goes over 50 amps it closes a relay to light the rear brake light. No sense in having someone pile into you just because you dropped it into L at 70mph (which produces a lot of regen, slows the car down quickly).The result is a very driveable car that "feels" like an ICE car. It's highway range may be a smudge less than a non-regen car (since that 10% regen creates more drag than simply letting the car coast) but the feeling and intuition is very close to a normal car while keeping pretty much all of the regen benefits.I still can get over 100A at 370V into my batteries occasionally and I feel that this 37kWatt of electric brake is enough to slow me down in all but the emergency stops.I think you should really back this off somewhat. If you have Hawkers, you should limit the amps at high voltage. Otherwise they will boil like nuts. At the same time though, I have done 150a of regen into the pack when it was at 50% discharge and pack voltage didn't go over 325 volts. They can really suck the current if they have the room.I'd say follow my charge profile; full blast to 350 volts, then hold at 350 volts till current is down to 3amps, then go to 375 volts at a nice slow 2a rate. My pack is 2 years old now, and running fine. My previous two were both dried out.Sounds about like the Prizm, however what kills these batteries is charging at high currents up at the higher voltages. Without clampers you can have one battery ripping around 16 volts with it's neighbor at 14 or so. 14 is fine for 10-20amps charge rate, that rate at 16 volts=cooked batery. If you back off the charge current, the 16 volt battery will come down in voltage and it's recombiners can deal with the more limited gassing without venting.NOTE that my batteries have a pretty good life regarding the fact that they never need to deliver more than 200A at about 300V, so this is close to 60kW to the motor. For my batteries this is a 2C discharge current and it only occurs during hard accels. Normal current is under 100A, typical 80-90A at 320V for 65 MPH, which means that the 50kW motor is at half-load and my truck uses approx 400Wh per mile.To get back on topic: Make sure you measure how much current your regen does supply to your batteries. If they are spec'ed to be charged with 40A continuous (like mine) then be very careful if your regen can supply more than twice this current while your batteries are still full.I think a good rule of thumb is to just voltage limit regen to 14.5 volts on a 12 volt battery.Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---mike golub [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I wasn't planning on racing this truck nor go past > 55mph... Doesn't matter; you will be starting from a stopped position, and most likely climbing hills every now and then. You will also be driving on the street, where there are potholes, etc. that will cause driveline shock to be transmitted all the way back to the tranny/motor mounts. I wish you the best, but fully expect one or both of those brackets to fail where they attach to the bedframe rails, even in street use. Cheers, Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---> Even scarier were the times that I took off with freshly > charged batteries and had to brake sharply, only to find > that the almost full batteries could not take the regen > current, so the voltage rose to astronomically high levels > (over 420V) and the controller reported an overvoltage > condition and shut down (dropped the contactors). Has there been any real world EVs that use the resistors (like the ge trains) to have someplace to put that energy that cannot be absorbed by the batts? I realize that they are going to be big and not very useful in an EV, but it could be done. Paul --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---paul wiley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Geez Roger, never shop a swap meet? If we're to consider the cost of a used ram coupler, then we must compare it to the cost of a used adapter/hub, which is much more difficult than comparing the cost of both new. > Yes true. But IF you want a positive lock up, then a clutch > disc isnt going to giv that to you. period. There are clutches available with sufficient holding power that they will maintain a positive lock up for most any street EV. However, my point is just that this coupler makes little sense for a *budget* conversion since it would cost more than a conventional clutch-type conversion, and a budget conversion would not need the positive lock up feature. > After the first few harsh engagements, The leading edges of > the splines wear in and it isnt bad at all. It feels like a > two stage racing clutch. Not having used one, I can only go by what the *manufacturer* states, which is that these are not recommenced for use in shifting applications. The description of the operating behaviour makes it sound as if one must match motor/tranny RPM fairly closely to get the coupler to re-lock up after one disengages it to shift. I agree that these may be acceptable tradeoffs if one really needs the positive lockup feature, but I see that as being something more attractive to racers than budget EVers, and it seems that the more finnicky shifting would result in slower shifts and make this a serious liability to the main form of EV racing: drag racing. > There is a learning curve here as well, but isnt there one > in driving an EV anyway? It is one thing to learn the nuances of driving an EV, but another to re-learn one's instinctive reactions to a panic situation. You or I might be willing to do so if this coupler provided an important benefit to us, however, this would make the vehicle unsafe for anyone else to drive even occasionally. > There are many ways around this, a > quick search of the net turned up several places that make > different pedal assys that preclude this. Sure, but this just increases the cost disadvantage further. > You could however > remove the lining and put in a bolt for a pedal stop. With > the EV and the controller you should have good low speed > capabilites anyway. It just seems to me that this coupler is not at all well-suited to the task. Its reason for being is to provide a means of disconnecting the engine from the tranny in an ICE racing application; it is not meant for shifting applications, and the cone-type clutch cannot handle large amounts of power and is meant only for infrequent use (getting the ICE vehicle rolling). In an EV one doesn't need to use the clutch to get the vehicle rolling; one only needs the clutch to allow quick shifts, and to allow the motor to be disconnected from the tranny in an emergency situation. Given that the ram coupler sounds as if it would result in shifts that are at least as slow as those in a clutchless setup, it seems that its real attraction for EVs would not be as an alternative to a clutch, but as an alternative to a solid clutchless adapter since it provides the same low intertia positive lock up while retaining the ability to disconnect the motor from the tranny in an emergency situation. Cheers, Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Jody Dewey wrote: > I recently had a black and decker battery pack for my 18V drill > reloaded with NimH batteries instead of NiCad batteries. Any special reason? Nicads are generally better for high current loads like a drill. They also tolerate cheap chargers better. > My charger won't work with it now. I know I can use the NiCad power > source to charge the NimH pack but eventually it will kill the pack. The charging characteristics of nimh and nicad are so similar that you can use the nicad charger. The problem is that the nicad charger probably doesn't shut off when the battery is full -- it just keeps right on charging anyway. Nicads can tolerate this with a modest loss of life. Nimh will be ruined. So, the "quick and dirty" solution is to add a timer that shuts off your charger after X hours. You would have to manually figure out how many hours it takes to reach fully charged. A better solution would be to add a voltage sensing circuit that looks for a particular voltage, and shuts off the charger when it is reached. The exact voltage depends on your charging current and temperature, but is around 1.53 volts per cell. The next step up would be to add a circuit that detects when the voltage stops rising. The voltage while charging tends to rise slowly, then reach a peak when fully charged, and then falls again if you keep charging. With nicads, you can charge until the voltage actually starts to fall. With nimh, it's best to stop charging when the rate of rise in voltage reaches zero, or even when it is still rising very slightly (i.e. it's better to undercharge them than overcharge). > I am learning how to use Stamps and I was thinking it would make a > nice charge controller. It could, though the Parallax versions don't have any analog inputs. I've used the Vesta Technologies BASIC Stamps for chargers; they cost a about the same and *do* have analog I/O. A microcomputer helps a lot with the peak voltage detection algorithm. First, because micros can easily record the voltage every minute or so and do the calculations to see how fast it is changing. Second, because the power source that is doing your charging is typically unregulated and noisy, so you have to compensate for it. > Also, does anyone know where I can get a 24V 2 amp power supply? These are pretty easy to get. It's a little big for a "wall wart", but there are lots of desktop transformer-rectifier units that will do the job. Or, you can make your own with a doorbell transformer and bridge rectifier. -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 5677, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---But... The hybrid vehicle and the fuel cell electric vehicles are helping the EV community. Many technologies like electric power steering, Advanced batteries and BMS system, electric heaters and autonomous Air conditioners and lightweight chassis can really help us too. Me, I want to find 4 wrecked Honda insights that I can glue together into 1 4 "rotor" ev :-) And we will always have to explain the hybrids to the unbelievers, so we had better all be on the same page!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---1-What's the formula to figure out what size motor is necessary to power a car? When we talk about the Geo Metro with a weight of 1600# it sounds good enough to power with that 10HP motor and 36volts (or was it 72volts) Which brings me to my next question. 2-If we add 300# or 600# of lead battery weight to a Geo Metro to get to 1900# or 2200#...would it make any difference if we went to lithium and then the added weight would only be about 1675# or 1750#... I realize the price of lithium batteries are high, but I have spent $5K on my project. (ie, 86 Toyota 4wd truck 9" warP, curtis 1209B upgraded 120vdc, and 20 6v exides) What if you spent $1000 on parts for that Geo Metro and then spent $3K on a lithium battery 36 volt system...what would you get? Thanks --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Daf 600 > <http://tinyurl.com/96qvv> > > Morris Minor Pickup: > <http://tinyurl.com/c83sk> > > Subaru 360: > <http://tinyurl.com/c5rl6> > > Citroen "Dechevo" (sic): > <http://tinyurl.com/8x5yp> > > Citroen Legere: > <http://tinyurl.com/ag75y> > > Renault 8: > <http://tinyurl.com/c3m9p> > > Pretty Austin: > <http://tinyurl.com/7fjr3> > > Hupmobile: > <http://tinyurl.com/dkutb> > > Hillman Husky: > <http://tinyurl.com/85d2b> > > Reliant Scimitar: > <http://tinyurl.com/b9t9d> > > Allard: > <http://tinyurl.com/dpvcm> > > Lawrence Rhodes > Bassoon/Contrabassoon > Reedmaker > Book 4/5 doubler > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate > 415-821-3519 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---What I have read Toyota may be making money, because the Japanese government gave them subsidies to do it. I think that article was shy of saying that, and all we got was a quote from a GM employee...saying they can't make money. What did GM do with their subsidy money? No answer required! --- Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Cor, > > I believe we're in complete agreement. We can't > trust what GM says, > and what they say sounds fishy anyway. > > I just don't feel qualified to hold an opinion - I'm > too ignorant, and > I'm biased. > > I provided a link to the article because you wanted > to read some > evidence that the Prius is a money-loser for Toyota. > Well, there you > go. It's not very good evidence, but it's what I > had available. > > Later, > > Doug > > > On Feb 4, 2006, at 12:22 AM, Cor van de Water wrote: > > > Doug, > > > > I have no doubt that American engineers can be as > qualified as > > their Japanese collegues, but that does not mean > that you will > > get the whole story from the "chop shop". > > > > Every major manufacturer, does not matter if it's > cars or other > > product, has some engineers take the latest > competitor product > > apart to learn what they did and how to position > themselves > > against the competition. > > Even if the chop shop found out exactly how GM > could be profitable > > with Hybrid technology, even then its up to the GM > management to > > decide if they go Hybrid or Hydrogen. > > If they see more money or less risk (due to their > years of lag > > with Hybrids) when going the Hydrogen route, even > if everyone > > can make the balance on a napkin that it is not > energy efficient > > and will not be anything substantial for years to > come, still the > > management can have their own reasons to give > direction to go the > > other route. > > > > In such a case you won't hear from GM's chop shop > that the Hybrid > > makes sense and GM should better reconsider. > > When minds are made up, truth is out the window. > > > > OK, one last point to consider: > > The GM chop shop was pointing out in great detail > how many moving > > parts there apparently were in the Prius > drivetrain. > > Did you also hear them mention that going Hybrid > deletes so many > > moving parts that so often wear out and cause > costly repairs, > > such as alternator, starter motor, gearbox, > clutch....? > > > > Regards, > > > > Cor van de Water > > Systems Architect > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: > http://www.cvandewater.com > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 > FWD# 25925 > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743 > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Behalf Of Doug Weathers > > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:43 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: GM analysis of Prius, was: Hybrid > efficiency > > > > > > > > On Feb 3, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Cor van de Water > wrote: > > > >> Chris wrote: > >> > >>> I also know that Toyota has been losing money on > the Prius hand over > >>> fist. > >> > >> Can you please provide some evidence of that? > > > > <snip> > > > >> If you have new info about the Prius, I like to > read it. > > > > The current issue of Wired Magazine has an article > about GM's "chop > > shop", where they tear down competitor's vehicles > and figure out how > > much they cost to make. GM's conclusion on the > Prius is that there's > > no way that Toyota is making money on it. They > think it's an attempt > > to make Toyota look technologically sophisticated > and green. > > > > > <http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.02/teardown.html> > > > > Lots of interesting info in there - if you want to > believe it. IMHO, > > just because GM can't figure out how to make money > building Priuses > > doesn't mean that Toyota can't. The article also > says that GM gave up > > on making hybrids and decided to concentrate on > fuel cells after the > > Prius teardowns. That's a red flag to me, since I > have a real hard > > time believing that fuel cells will ever make > automotive sense from an > > energy or environmental standpoint. Maybe they're > slandering the Prius > > as another excuse for continuing the hydrogen > boondoggle. > > > > Then again, what do I know? > > > > > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Cor van de Water > >> Systems Architect > >> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: > http://www.cvandewater.com > >> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 > FWD# 25925 > >> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 > >> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743 > >> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com > > -- > > Doug Weathers > > Bend, OR, USA > > <http://learn-something.blogsite.org/> > > > > > -- > Doug Weathers > Bend, OR, USA > <http://learn-something.blogsite.org/> > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---STEVE CLUNN wrote: > I saw a 2 1/2 ( I'm sure this is over rated compared to most motors) > electric mower motor in one of surplus center's catalog. The small motors you find in consumer products are often given absurd horsepower ratings for marketing reasons. "Powerful 2hp motor... runs on 120vac at 10amps." 120vac at 10amps is 1200 watts, which is about 1.2 actual horsepower (assuming the motor is 75% efficient, which is typical for these small motors). > Why not 10 small (6ah) batteries to get your 120v? This will work, but may be more capacity than you need. A 12v 6ah battery will weigh around 6 lbs, so 10 of them is 60 lbs. That's kind of heavy to push around on a mower. I have a Rally 120vac electric mower that I used on batteries for a few years. I used sixty Gates 2v 2.5ah cells, which I got a good deal on as surplus. They were arranged as a ring around the motor, and charged with a "bad boy" bridge rectifier and light bulb charger. The on/off switch operated a contactor to switch the motor on/off. It mowed for 10-20 minutes depending on how thick the grass was. It worked fine, but was converted back to 120vac when I moved and had a lawn with an 8' height difference between the front and back yards, as it was too heavy to push up/down the hills. Also, I murdered the cells one by one due to the crappy charger, but I won't talk about that. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hello Paul, I experiment with a very large resistor the was 0.5 ohm and a center tap for 0.25 ohm. I think it was over 20,000 watts. It is a stack of stainless plates for about 30 inches long and 10 inches square. When I pick up the car back in 1976, it was a proto type which they tested on a test track back in Detroit. They gave me all kinds of stuff they experiment on the EV. To see how it will slow me down, going down a long steep hill which normally the EV would get over 80 mph which was dangerous in the winter time. Had to hang it below the front bumper and use a 600 amp contactor to insert the resistor in series with the free wheeling diode and motor. On this hill it did not do much good, slow it only 10 mph. The resistor turn red. The EV at that time weigh 7850 lbs. The battery pack were 300 ah cells that weigh 3550 lbs by them self. Could have barbecue a steak on the way home, which would have save the stove power. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: paul wiley<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Regen settings > Even scarier were the times that I took off with freshly > charged batteries and had to brake sharply, only to find > that the almost full batteries could not take the regen > current, so the voltage rose to astronomically high levels > (over 420V) and the controller reported an overvoltage > condition and shut down (dropped the contactors). Has there been any real world EVs that use the resistors (like the ge trains) to have someplace to put that energy that cannot be absorbed by the batts? I realize that they are going to be big and not very useful in an EV, but it could be done. Paul --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Off line Madman is in the dark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hi Doug,Using GM's numbers, no car maker could make a profit from a hybrid system. Remember, GM had a source for batteries, motors and controllers for their 1G EV1, but Delco and Delphi trotted out the part of their contract that required GM to use them whenever possible. Thus, GM had to use custom batteries, motors and controllers designed and produced in tiny quantities by these companies at enormous cost, where commodity parts would have been better and cheaper.Tim On Feb 3, 2006, at 9:46 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: February 3, 2006 7:42:51 PM PST To: [email protected] Subject: GM analysis of Prius, was: Hybrid efficiency On Feb 3, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:Chris wrote:I also know that Toyota has been losing money on the Prius hand over fist.Can you please provide some evidence of that?<snip>If you have new info about the Prius, I like to read it.The current issue of Wired Magazine has an article about GM's "chop shop", where they tear down competitor's vehicles and figure out how much they cost to make. GM's conclusion on the Prius is that there's no way that Toyota is making money on it. They think it's an attempt to make Toyota look technologically sophisticated and green.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hello Peter That's a really nice installation! The way all those cells disappear under the false floor is very cool. By the time it's carpeted out, you'll have a really nice polished EV to show off. I can see some circuit boards attached to each cell - are these those monitor boards that Cedric designed? So you've been getting good results from the 200 Ah Thundersky cells? I've been wondering about buying a friend's Honda CRX Del-Sol ( very nice, black manual gearbox, with electric transtop roof ) and putting ThunderSky's into it - would make a great little commuter Regards, -- Richard Bebbington electric Mini pickup http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electric.mini/ UK dealer for Netgain EV motors www.go-ev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---It would be amusing to make a car upwards of a 1/4 mile in length so when the light goes green, the line is crossed in a 1/10 or so of a second.. ;) Make some telescoping tubing with wheels that you can extend out to trigger the lights sooner. Or devise a projectile that could be fired with a wire attached to it like a tow missile to trigger the lights sooner. Is there anything in the rulebook that rules out ideas like that? I'm sure I'm not the first person who has had thoughts like that....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Guys I won't be making it. I am on inverter power and I had to bypass my APC to get this PC lit up. I have about 2 Kwhr left in the old AGM. Up here in North Kitsap its getting Grimm, The Grid will be out for days. I have Generators and my F25 to keep the house Fridge cool and the Deep free solid. But ..... The Grid powered lightning show last night at 12:06 am and again at about 3 amp was impressive, many read dozzens of large trees down across the big feeders. We drove under about 6 trees this morning just hanging on the Big wires and Phone lines. What a mess. The local Safeway was tossing ALL the frozen food while I was looking for the last of the lamp oil. No dice... We are using candles and about 23 Watts of compact floresent, and a few Amphours of Battery supply out here in me really cold office. My 2400 watter is cooling my neigbors fridge, and I get it back to fill the battery pack for this night. We have a Wood fire going and I am upgrading to long pants... yea that means it's cold when Madman up grades from shorts. So.. I will be tending fires and Gen sets for Super bowl Sunday, we might head over to the Big city and wathc on my Daughter's new 42 inch LCD. But... Darnkess rules here right now. I will be firing up a single string of Christmas lights just to make a show.... Man My APC Aps does not like the F-25's modified sqaure wave output..... See ya ... from a dark North Kitsap... Rich Rudman Manzanita Micro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Electric 'Power Breakfast' this Sunday at the Village Inn, Portland > > I'll be there. > > Ralph > > > John Wayland writes: > > > > Hello to All, > > > > This Sunday, Feb. 8th, we are having another one of our fun electric > > breakfasts here in Portland at the Village Inn restaurant at 102nd & > > S.E. Stark St. at 9:00 AM. All friends and EVers are invited to pull up > > a chair, stuff their face, and enjoy the rowdy noise at our table. > > Notable EVers that I know will be there so far, are Father Time, Rod > > Wilde, Tim Brehm, Jim and Matt Husted, and yours truly. Rudman usually > > can't resist the temptation, and Marko Mongillo might make it, too. > > Hopefully, Victor can bring his ACRX and Ralph Merwin can show up in his > > immaculate electric Prism. Tim and I will be driving White Zombie and > > Blue Meanie, so local EVers, drive electric if you can. > > > > See Ya.......John Wayland > > >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---> its up to the GM management to > decide if they go Hybrid or Hydrogen. What about electric? With lithium batteries, how many miles per charge are necessary for electric to be viable and a reality? What's a guess as to the upper end of range with a large lithium pack? Could they get lithium batteries cheaper if they just made them them-self instead of buying them from China or Korea(shipping and profit issues)?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Here is a direct voting link: http://www.dragtimes.com/voteprocess.php?slipID=7621 Here are direct links to the other electric vehicles. Click all these links every day on any computer you use. http://www.dragtimes.com/voteprocess.php?slipID=7484 http://www.dragtimes.com/voteprocess.php?slipID=7382 http://www.dragtimes.com/voteprocess.php?slipID=7519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Doug wrote: > I would like an EV version of the Ford Focus hatchback, or some other > small hatchback. A local Chevy dealer advertises the 2006 Chevy Aveo on TV for $8377. http://www.chevrolet.com/aveo/ http://www.bobhowardchevrolet.com/onlinespecials/onlinespecials.jsp?mypage=online_newcar I think Suzuki, KIA, and Hyundai each offer a car in that price range? For that price, it's tempting to get one and convert it to rear wheel drive. Tub the rear wheel wells, and add a bullet proof drive line(transmission/differential). The Aveo weighs ~2300 lbs.. I wonder how many batteries it could hold? How much could the complete low mileage engine/transmission and many other parts be sold for on ebay?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---"For that price, it's tempting to get one and convert it to rear wheel drive." Why? "Tub the rear wheel wells, and add a bullet proof drive line(transmission/differential)." Can you elborate on this? Any suggestions? I'm still thinking about going for 4wd by adding a driveline in the rear (somehow?) and then run two smaller motors (maybe the JACK & HEINTZ G-29-88), and two 36-72volt controllers or maybe smaller? Install the potboxes side-by-side? --- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Doug wrote: > > > I would like an EV version of the Ford Focus > hatchback, or some other > > small hatchback. > > A local Chevy dealer advertises the 2006 Chevy Aveo > on TV for $8377. > > http://www.chevrolet.com/aveo/ > > http://www.bobhowardchevrolet.com/onlinespecials/onlinespecials.jsp?mypage=online_newcar > > I think Suzuki, KIA, and Hyundai each offer a car in > that price range? > > > The Aveo weighs ~2300 lbs.. I wonder how many > batteries it could hold? > > How much could the complete low mileage > engine/transmission and many > other parts be sold for on ebay? > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---What do most of you do with your old IC engines taken out for conversions? The obvious one for me is to try to sell it to defray some of the cost of the conversion. Has anyone had luck doing this? Will salvage yards pay for a running engine? The Mitsubishi 2.6L 4cyl has 121K miles and still runs strong with no leaks. However the recycler in me wants to turn it into another project. Convert it to natural gas and use if for an emergency generator for the house? Tie a long chain to it and use it as an anchor for a mooring buoy?<<attachment: winmail.dat>>
--- End Message ---
