EV Digest 5161
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hawker charging profiles (was Re: Regen settings)
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Heatsink sought for Curtis 1221c
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Keeping the Record Straight
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Heatsink sought for Curtis 1221c
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Keeping the Record Straight
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) vacuum pump
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Where to buy KiloVac Contactors?
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Battery Manu. looking for applications: was Re: Will Li be a
reality in 2006?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Marathon series by GNB division of Exide?
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Marathon series by GNB division of Exide?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
Hi Chris,
Thanks for all the data, but you left one other hole in the
charge profile:
What happens between 2 and 1.5A?
When I go from 2amps to 1.5, the voltage will drop a bit below 350. No
big deal; the goal is to get them to 375 slowly. Since I'm doing
constant current with a trigger of 370 volts, the pack will slowly crank
up to full.
I think his recommendation is for low voltage UPS type application
where the battery is sitting in float charge most its life.
(As you may be aware, I do not have Hawkers, but Universal Batteries
AGMs - same chemistry, same recommended voltages but different
target market and different manufacturer, also different capacity)
Perhaps. Actually I think the true Hawker specs are for a single battery
being discharged fast, then charged completely. With only 6 cells in a
battery you don't have to worry about things like different battery
temps and errors are easier to catch.
Do you have recommendation for a charger that can do this profile
and reach 385V (I have 26 batteries) and will not self-destruct
if a short peak voltage of slightly over 400V occurs during regen?
Well, the Magnecharger or any charger can drop off the pack by the
simple application of a relay. Just have the charger on when charging,
and off when driving.
However I would strongly advise against letting regen voltage get up to
400. Remember you'll be putting a lot of amps in during regen; that will
boil the batteries. Limit regen current to 14.5 volts peak.
Do I need to build my own charger? Ideas/plans?
Preferably both 120V and 240V at 15A input capable,
output 10A is nice but I can live with 5A into the batteries.
That's way beyond my skill set. I love the MC because of the multiple
voltage/current profiles you can load (up to 7). If it had a way to
sense something like a signal from battery monitors that say "I'm above
14.7 volts" on any battery and toggle to the next profile it would be
perfect.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Melted posts can be repaired by a good battery supplier. You might be
hooked into the controller somehow and it'll suck amps on precharge and give
a pop. LR>...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 2:40 PM
Subject: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
Hi all,
first some intro, then an odd question.
Got a call from the wife late last night. Lost power in the EV; stuck
about 1.5 miles from home. Ride over and eventually discover that a bus
bar connecting two batteries had worked itself loose, and under load had
somewhat melted the two posts it was connected to. Disconnected those
batteries from the string, jumpered past them, and got home on the
remainder. On closer inspection, might just be able to repair the damaged
posts. Very frustrating -- had put in a week of evenings into pulling and
cleaning batts, battery box, and so on, about 30 miles before, to get the
car in a state I was happy with (best laid plans and all that, right?) and
obviously didn't re-check the connections as well as I should have (or,
using just a nut + lug on LPT connections has bitten me -- will change
that arrangement, perhaps adding a belleville washer etc). All in all,
can't complain -- could have been much worse.
Some troubling detail: When I arrived at the stricken vehicle, I came to
notice that there was no voltage across the rear battery pack. I then put
the negative lead on the "most negative" terminal (is there a correct
phrase for this?) and proceeded to place the positive lead on successive
positive terminals, looking for the failed connection. When I got past the
bus bar, the DMM failed to read the expected voltage. Which is when I spot
the damaged posts. Hmm... time to step backwards. Placed the lead on the
damaged, negative post on the "more positive" of the two effected
batteries and...
*BANG* -- spark between post and meter lead! What!?! Quick check of the
meter to make sure I'm still on volts -- yep. Odd, perhaps a charge built
up somehow, and is now discharged? Try again -- same result. Maybe this
(new) meter has shorted internally? Check the voltage on a single
battery -- all ok. Wait a while, and try again -- no spark, and no reading
(the bus bar was not making contact at the other post at this point).
Now, the question/s: Is there a reasonable explanation for this? Is there
some mechanism by which a charge could build up on a damaged/melted post
in such a way that measuring across the battery pack with a voltmeter
could produce a spark? Any other theories for what I've described? Has
anyone experienced anything similar?
Grateful for any reply,
Claudio
(who should be thankful the meter copped the spark *before* he removed the
connections to "jumper" the pack to get home?)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Roger,
thanks again for your thoughts.
> > The charger remained connected, but I don't believe it was
> > the cause for a number of reasons.
>
> What might be those reasons?
I went on to illustrate them briefly in the previous email.
Primarily, because I've made that same connection under the same conditions
before -- which includes (I assume) discharged caps on the charger. As early as
this week I put the pack back together after having disassembled it 10 days
earlier... I am assuming the output caps would have well and truly discharged
by then. Perhaps not?
Additional data point (figured I might as well replicate your theory instead of
offering anecdotal "evidence"): just performed a brief charge. Unplugged
charger's Anderson connector, and measured voltage across charger terminals --
zero (good, suggests all previous experience was relevant). Disconnected
offending bus bar. Reconnected charger. Replaced bus bar -- no sparks.
I hope this sufficiently clears the charger from blame.
> <snipped excellent explanation of theory>
> I don't mean to be stubborn about it, but I've never yet seen a DMM
> cause a spark when connected to measure a voltage, so I still
> think the most likely explanation is the obvious one.
Not being stubborn at all. I share your pragmatism, but I did feel (and now am
sure that) the charger was off the hook.
However, with that pragmatism in mind, I think I have to just accept that the
most likely explanation is that I'm misremembering the sequence of events and,
being roused from sleep to perform a roadside repair, failed to open the
circuit breaker on the first tests (which is probably the simpler theory you
were too polite to follow :-), thereby knocking a "spotty" (thanks Nick)
connection into place under the load of the DC/DC running lights, flashers etc.
That doesn't jive with memory, but it is the most likely explanation given the
facts.
Thanks to all, especially for keeping me honest,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Lawrence,
> Melted posts can be repaired by a good battery supplier.
Thanks for that. I called around earlier this morning, and we ought to be back
on the road by the weekend. Did not melt the case, just damage to the posts
themselves, so should be an easy fix.
> You might be hooked into the controller somehow and it'll
> suck amps on precharge and give a pop.
Not with the breaker open. But my memory is likely mis-wired.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This is not correct.
I stand corrected.
> When Dean hijacked the NEDRA website and the
> board's discussion forum, he named Bill as national technical
> director for the organization.
I wasn't aware of this, however, to be fair, it seems that Dean is
merely attempting to restore NEDRA to the state it was in when the
President's term expired. It is my opinion that when one's term expires
the *only* business one should proceed with is that of holding
elections; one certainly cannot justify choosing to throw away the
organisation's charter and proceed with rule changes and director
changes when one's own term has already expired and then point fingers
at others as having "hijacked" the organisation. Like it or not, the
charter included a process for revisions to the charter itself, and this
is the only way that revisions to it should be undertaken.
It seems to me that the only road forward for NEDRA is to maintain the
status quo to the greatest extent possible (i.e. honouring the
resignations that were tendered) and work under the official charter
towards holding elections at the earliest possible opportunity. The
duly elected official(s) can then appoint a new board and, if they so
choose, work toward revamping the charter and rulebook following the
processes spelled out in the charter.
> I think how Bill represents himself with regard to
> this record is very reflective of the NEDRA organization as he is
> claiming a key leadership role of that organization.
Then I think we've both made our *opinions* clear.
For myself, until NEDRA revises a Killacycle record, I am firmly of the
opinion that any questionable representations Bill makes about his
vehicle and its records that disagree with official NEDRA records only
serve to compromise his personal credibility as a competitor; the
integrity of NEDRA itself is preserved until such time as it officially
recognises such questionable claims as fact.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The car was designed and re-built in five days by cable TV's car-star Jesse
James and his crew at his Monster Garage
So, tell us, Rich. How much "design" and "building" did old Jesse
actually do? Or does he just take the credit?
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Claudio Natoli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Additional data point (figured I might as well replicate your
> theory instead of offering anecdotal "evidence"): just
> performed a brief charge. Unplugged charger's Anderson
> connector, and measured voltage across charger terminals --
> zero (good, suggests all previous experience was relevant).
> Disconnected offending bus bar. Reconnected charger. Replaced
> bus bar -- no sparks.
>
> I hope this sufficiently clears the charger from blame.
You bet! ;^>
I suspect your theory of having forgotten to open the breaker might be
the most likely one now...
Have you attempted to reproduce the DMM spark event by opening the
breaker and probing the same connections after deliberately loosening
the bus bar connection again? If you can't get the spark to occur with
the breaker open, but can with the breaker closed, then I think we may
have pretty good evidence in favour of this theory.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
>What is important... is a old abused Curtis can run for years...and die when
ever it chooses to. So can a brand new one.
But how likely is it that a new one will fail not having been misused or
abused?
>I would put the heatsink on the old one and run it until it dies, and keep
the low hour one until you need it.
But how do they commonly fail? Spontaneous total failure without warning?
Best regards,
Mark Freidberg
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rich Rudman wrote:
> I know the equation a well as you do... You are missing the main
> variable; usage or actual loading. The rest don't mean squat unless
> you know how hard it's been pushed thermally.
The reliability equations tell us that heat, voltage, and current all
have their own stress factors. Temperature is easy; though the exact
factor varies depending on the type of part (transistor, capacitor,
etc.), life roughly halves for every 10 deg.C increase in temperature.
So, it makes a *lot* of sense to keep the temperature down!
Voltage and current stress are nonlinear, and related to each other.
With semiconductors, voltage doesn't shorten their life until you get
close to the rated breakdown voltage. For example a "100v" rated part
might last 100 years at 50v, 10 years at 100v, and 1 *second* at 150v!
In practical terms, this means if you are using a 144v rated controller
at 144v, you'd better keep it cool (or your 10-year life turns into 1
year)! And, you'd better not let it sit for long periods of time on the
charger at higher voltages (a 144v pack hits 180v at the end of a charge
cycle) or it could die in a hurry!
> What is important... is a old abused Curtis can run for years...
> and die when ever it chooses to. So can a brand new one.
Right. But temperature, voltage, etc. are stress factors that
considerably hasten the day when this will occur.
> I would put the heatsink on the old one and run it until it dies,
> and keep the low hour one until you need it.
Agreed. I thought you were suggesting that he *not* put the heatsink on
the old one, and just keep using it as-is until it dies.
> Curtii have that nice "thermos bottle" cooling design; once hot
> Stays hot!.
Yes; it's a poor thermal design. There's a lot of aluminum there, but
they did a bad job of using it. It does a poor job of getting the heat
from the MOSFETs to the case.
> And maybe the list should remember that I have run a few old beat
> up Curtis controllers for years... fixed... I got more miles...
> The fail mode is not dead caps, it's fried FETs, in gate drive
> failed on mode.
It's hard to tell the capacitors have failed, since they are more likely
to fail open. They look like they're there, but are doing nothing.
Without the capacitors, the voltage spikes on the MOSFETs are worse,
leading to their extinction. And you'll *know* when they fail!
> The fails I remember were water ingestion, shorted high volts
> to the pot control lines and abusive precharge... aka NONE.
> These fails don't have much to do with the basic design, they
> are foolish thing done to the controller by the user. Like most
> batteries, they are murdered, and rarely die of old age.
Well said! This advice should be well heeded by others using these (or
any other) controllers. There are lots of ways Murphy can help us kill
even the most robust controller.
> I have yet to see a Curtii with caps on fire. I have seen other
> controllers litterally light the Cap cases on fire.
The Curtis case is sealed, so I haven't been able to see the "event"
real time. But I have seen the insides after a capacitor or two have
burst and spewed their guts around inside (on top of the exploded bits
of MOSFET). My guess is that the capacitors failed first, then the
MOSFETs.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roger,
> > I hope this sufficiently clears the charger from blame.
>
> You bet! ;^>
Phew :-)
> I suspect your theory of having forgotten to open the breaker might be
> the most likely one now...
I sadly concur.
> Have you attempted to reproduce the DMM spark event by opening the
> breaker and probing the same connections after deliberately loosening
> the bus bar connection again? If you can't get the spark to occur with
> the breaker open, but can with the breaker closed, then I think we may
> have pretty good evidence in favour of this theory.
After I sent the last email, I wondered if you'd ask this ;-)
I can't reproduce it using the DMM probe against the posts, but that doesn't
mean much as I can't exactly replicate the position of the bus bar as it was
either. Having removed it and cleaned things up, it now sits on the top of the
posts (what's left of them), whereas it was slightly elevated last night.
Presumably the bus bar was resting just off a post thread, in such a way that
probes to the post caused enough movement for it to make contact under load. As
the bus bar sits above but in line of the point of measurement, it could very
well have appeared to be from between meter and post -- particularly with the
sudden contrast to the low ambient lighting.
Ok, I've convinced myself :-)
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I'm responding to Roger's assertions that my car is misrepresented. That
cuts deep, and I won't allow this to go unchallenged. Tim and I have
worked far too hard to allow even the hint of impropriety be associated
with White Zombie and the two NEDRA records it currently holds.
Roger Stockton wrote:
...we should perhaps be re-examining performance claims for White
Zombie...various batteries over the
years, and White Zombie, in addition to having run several different motors has
also had the controller swapped out.
What's to re-examine?
The SC/A class record that was posted on the NEDRA site for soooo long,
was from May of 2000, and was achieved with real time slips that matched
the exact car featured at the time the record was posted. The battery
sponsor was listed as Hawker, the exact batteries in the car at the time
that record was attained. NEDRA doesn't have provisions at the records
page to note all the stats of the vehicle, like motor type, controller,
etc.....NEDRA lists the major sponsor, which usually turns out to be the
battery sponsor.
The next record added to the car's list, was when it set the new
standard for SC/B of 12.991 @ 101.18 mph, and was achieved with real
time slips that matched the exact car featured at the time the record
was posted. The battery sponsor was and still is listed as 'Exide'...the
exact batteries in the car at the time 'that' record was attained.
The next record added to the car's list, was when it reset the SC/A
record to 12.151 @ 106.25 mph, and was achieved with real time slips
that matched the exact car featured at the time the record was posted.
The battery sponsor is listed as 'Hawker AeroBatteries'...the exact
batteries in the car at the time the record was attained.
Not once, have I ever changed the name of the car. The current SC/A
record associated with the car has not been taken from a previous
version of the car. The current SC/B record associated with the car was
not been taken from a previous version of the car. The records follow
the exact changes of the car. All records were set with the same body,
the same frame, and the same basic powertrain layout of a front-mounted
motor(s) with no transmission and rear wheel drive. There's been no
major changes to the car itself. A picture of White Zombie, is a picture
of White Zombie. The stickers may change, but the car has been and
always will be, the same Datsun 1200 with the same VIN (vehicle
identification number). There is no KillaZombie or MegaZombie...it's
just White Zombie...what you see, is what you get!
Have the motor(s) changed over the years? Of course! Have the batteries
changed over the years? Of course! Has the controller model
and control systems changed over the years? Of course! It's called progress.
At the Plasma Boy Racing website, under my 'Videos' section, I go out of
my way to make sure there is no confusion. I clearly and purposefully
describe each run with details of the car's different configurations
that match each run. I do this so that interested folks get a clear idea
of what batteries, what voltage, which motor or motors, which
controller, and which 'version' of the car made it do what they are
watching. I've been slowly compiling older pictures of the different
versions of the car to make its history well documented, and there will
be a new section called 'Different Versions of White Zombie'.
Examples...216V version with Exides, twin 8 inch Warfields, direct
drive, and Godzilla with Afterburner Bypass..... 180V version with
Optima Red Tops, single 9" ADC, 5 speed, and contactor control...336V
version with Hawker Genesis, 11 inch Kostov, direct drive, and 1400 amp
Godzilla....348V version with Siamese 8, Hawker AeroBatteries, direct
drive, and Zilla Z2K with series-parallel motor switching....etc.
All of the records for White Zombie belong to White Zombie and all are
documented and supported with time slips that match the car.
What else could I possibly do, to be more open and sharing, with where
this car has been and where it's going? What's to re-examine?
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Rich, Lee,
Rich says:
> The fails I remember were water ingestion, shorted high volts
> to the pot control lines and abusive Precharge...aka NONE.
Lee says:
> Well said! This advice should be well heeded by others using these (or
> any other) controllers.
Just wondering about the "shorted high volts to the pot control line" failure
mode.
How does this occur? Is this a result of plain mis-wiring, or a leakage path to
frame, or something totally different?
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't say whether you read him wrong or not, but I can say that your
interpretation of what Roger wrote is very different from mine. When
reading his post earlier today, I did not come away with any impression
that he was claiming your car to be falsely discribed -- I didn't think he
was making a statement about White Zombie at all.
Rather than suggesting that we need to reevaluate the identity of White
Zombie due to various changes through its life, I think Roger was using
your car as an example, in his rebuttal to Ken Trough. I think Roger
interpreted Ken's post as implying perhaps that a significant change in
the powertrain might equal a change in what the car is. Roger seemed to be
holding the White Zombie as an example of why this isn't necessarily an
accurate assumption.
Clearly this is a difficult discussion to be having on the list, as it
involves questions about a person's integrity and the propriety of his
self representation, that person being someone who has made noteworthy
contributions to electric drag racing, and is widely known for it (I've
even had a couple people inquire about Bill and the Killacycle while doing
PR events all the way over here in Texas). I think Roger has made
significant efforts to offer a balanced, unbiased viewpoint without taking
sides, with an issue that for some would make such balanced treatment
unwelcome.
For what it's worth, though I don't know Roger personally I honestly think
that he'd be one of the last people here to intentionally malign your car
or your honesty with the public about its components and performance.
--chris
On Wed, February 8, 2006 10:15 pm, John Wayland said:
> Hello to All,
>
> I'm responding to Roger's assertions that my car is misrepresented. That
> cuts deep, and I won't allow this to go unchallenged. Tim and I have
> worked far too hard to allow even the hint of impropriety be associated
> with White Zombie and the two NEDRA records it currently holds.
>
> Roger Stockton wrote:
>
>>...we should perhaps be re-examining performance claims for White
>> Zombie...various batteries over the
>>years, and White Zombie, in addition to having run several different
>> motors has also had the controller swapped out.
>>
>>
>
> What's to re-examine?
>
> The SC/A class record that was posted on the NEDRA site for soooo long,
> was from May of 2000, and was achieved with real time slips that matched
> the exact car featured at the time the record was posted. The battery
> sponsor was listed as Hawker, the exact batteries in the car at the time
> that record was attained. NEDRA doesn't have provisions at the records
> page to note all the stats of the vehicle, like motor type, controller,
> etc.....NEDRA lists the major sponsor, which usually turns out to be the
> battery sponsor.
>
> The next record added to the car's list, was when it set the new
> standard for SC/B of 12.991 @ 101.18 mph, and was achieved with real
> time slips that matched the exact car featured at the time the record
> was posted. The battery sponsor was and still is listed as 'Exide'...the
> exact batteries in the car at the time 'that' record was attained.
>
> The next record added to the car's list, was when it reset the SC/A
> record to 12.151 @ 106.25 mph, and was achieved with real time slips
> that matched the exact car featured at the time the record was posted.
> The battery sponsor is listed as 'Hawker AeroBatteries'...the exact
> batteries in the car at the time the record was attained.
>
> Not once, have I ever changed the name of the car. The current SC/A
> record associated with the car has not been taken from a previous
> version of the car. The current SC/B record associated with the car was
> not been taken from a previous version of the car. The records follow
> the exact changes of the car. All records were set with the same body,
> the same frame, and the same basic powertrain layout of a front-mounted
> motor(s) with no transmission and rear wheel drive. There's been no
> major changes to the car itself. A picture of White Zombie, is a picture
> of White Zombie. The stickers may change, but the car has been and
> always will be, the same Datsun 1200 with the same VIN (vehicle
> identification number). There is no KillaZombie or MegaZombie...it's
> just White Zombie...what you see, is what you get!
>
> Have the motor(s) changed over the years? Of course! Have the batteries
> changed over the years? Of course! Has the controller model
> and control systems changed over the years? Of course! It's called
> progress.
>
> At the Plasma Boy Racing website, under my 'Videos' section, I go out of
> my way to make sure there is no confusion. I clearly and purposefully
> describe each run with details of the car's different configurations
> that match each run. I do this so that interested folks get a clear idea
> of what batteries, what voltage, which motor or motors, which
> controller, and which 'version' of the car made it do what they are
> watching. I've been slowly compiling older pictures of the different
> versions of the car to make its history well documented, and there will
> be a new section called 'Different Versions of White Zombie'.
> Examples...216V version with Exides, twin 8 inch Warfields, direct
> drive, and Godzilla with Afterburner Bypass..... 180V version with
> Optima Red Tops, single 9" ADC, 5 speed, and contactor control...336V
> version with Hawker Genesis, 11 inch Kostov, direct drive, and 1400 amp
> Godzilla....348V version with Siamese 8, Hawker AeroBatteries, direct
> drive, and Zilla Z2K with series-parallel motor switching....etc.
>
> All of the records for White Zombie belong to White Zombie and all are
> documented and supported with time slips that match the car.
>
> What else could I possibly do, to be more open and sharing, with where
> this car has been and where it's going? What's to re-examine?
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello
I bought a ford vacuum pump on ebay.
Does it matter which wire gets the +12volts?
It doesn't say.
Thanks
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is important to note that after the first few months of its existence,
the Killacycle has always been the worlds fastest (and quickest) electric
drag bike. Every version has been faster and quicker than any other drag bike.
The listing on Dragtimes directs you to the KillaCycle website.
The picture is of the present version of the bike. Folks can look at the
website and learn all about the history of the bike. I have no secrets.
At 12:58 AM 2/8/2006, you wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The White Zombie has a completely different drive package than it did
when it started racing. It is still the White Zombie
That's because it uses the same frame/body as it did before. This is
clearly an evolved design of the same vehicle. If John took Blue Meanie
and painted it white and put his motors into it, Blue Meanie would not
become White Zombie. It would be a different vehicle, IMO.
What about the Current Eliminator? Dennis has changed the body,
frame, motor, etc. probably more than once. From my perspective (as a
fellow racer) it always has been, and always will be the Current
Eliminator. It is his dragster, so it is what he chooses to call it. The
sign on his trailer says that the vehicle inside is the quickest EV in the
world. I agree with him 100%. He has made many improvements. That is OK. It
is what racers are supposed to do.
It is very common in racing to have more than one car by the same
name, sometimes in the same race series! When one breaks, you swap it for
the back-up.
A good example is the GM Sunracer. (Perhaps you are too young to
remember that far back in electric racing.) There were two of them.
Since you don't actually race, you might not realize that race
cars continually change. You upgrade parts all the time. The idea is to
make it go faster. ;^)
The KillaCycle has the SAME drive package as it did the first day it
raced. Components have been upgraded, the body has changed a few times,
the frame has been redone, I played with a different name for awhile,
but it is still the KillaCycle.
Actually, a totally different frame and a totally different body mean you
are talking about a totally different vehicle. The "drive package" should
consist of the motor, controller and battery pack, yet I believe the
controller and the battery pack are different from when the record was
set. The motor seems to be the only significant component that had
anything to do with setting the record you are now claiming for the new cycle.
Without the battery pack (which you change all the time) the bike
weighs about 350 pounds. Of this, about 200 pounds of identical "stuff" has
gone down the track for every single run the bike has ever made.
I still own all the parts I have swapped out over the years. How
about if I put it all in a pile next to the bike, take a picture, and then
post it to Dragtimes as the record holding vehicle?
How about if I put the yellow body back on? Maybe if I painted the
present body yellow? I bought all the bike bodies from AeroTech. They can
interchange. If I put the new body on the old frame and took a picture and
called it the record holder, would that be OK?
By the way, only a fraction of the bike was ever Kawasaki. The
front rim, forks, and about 1/3 of the frame came from the Kawasaki
factory. The rest of the bike was custom and after market parts.
The new cycle, regardless of what you name it, is not the record holder,
yet you are representing it as such. This is dishonest. Why not simply
identify the older vehicle as the record holder and present the new one
without lying about records it does not hold?
Maybe people don't really care about you misrepresenting NEDRA records and
race vehicles...
Let's talk about misrepresentations.
On the TV show, Going Postal was a conversion from an ICE van.
They clearly showed a gasoline engine coming out of the front on a hoist,
and another shot of the gas tank coming out from under the back. However,
it holds a NEDRA record for a PRODUCTION electric vehicle, NOT a conversion
vehicle.
This is because they lied to the public during the show. The van
was electric from the factory. This is a very big misrepresentation,
wouldn't you say?
Is Roderick Wilde really the name of the person that owns Going
Postal? (Or is there another misrepresentation involved?)
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Looking at spec sheets I see the "EV200" is a Form A contact and the
"LEV200" is a Form X Double Make contact. Would this be the roughly the
same as two EV200's in series? I note also the holding current on the coil
is 0.13A for the EV200 and 1.0 A for the LEV200. Would a lighter pull on
the arm contibute to easier arcing during operation? The funniest thing
though is that asside from these two details the rest of the specs are the
same. Could it be the EV200 didn't actually meet spec and so they had to
beef up the contacts and call it something else, LEV200? hmmmm...
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
http://www.tycoelectronics.com/prodimages/pdf/LEV200_ds_9-1773439-1.pdf
Mike
Anchorage, AK.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:41 AM
To: Mike & Paula Willmon; [email protected]
Subject: Re: Where to buy KiloVac Contactors?
I welded a single EV-200 on a 144vdc pack. I wouldn't do it again. Much
safer are two Albrights. Butttttt......It you use two EV-200's that should
work. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:25 AM
Subject: RE: Where to buy KiloVac Contactors?
> This LEV200 looks like a really good product. Tyco typically makes pretty
> good commercial products (or buys companies that do). For the $75 Doug
> Hartley has offered them for I may try one out (if he still has it
> available). I'm mainly interestd because of the specifications. I bought
> an Albright SW200 but am having second thoughts about using it. Its
> contacts are only rated for 96VDC. Although many say its successfully
> been
> used at 156VDC. Would I be pushing it to use it on a 192V pack? Since I
> will precharge I'm not so worried about welding it during closing. Should
> I
> worry about it welding if breaking full pack current at this far above the
> rated contact voltage?
>
> This Tyco/KiloVac unit LEV200 series claims an estimated cycle life at
> 270VDC of 100 breaks at 800A and 10,000 breaks at rated continuous current
> of 200A. I hope to never have to break the pack at full current but its
> good
> to know there's an estimated 100 times I *could* do it.
>
> What do you guys that run over 192V packs use for a main contactor? Do
> you
> series up lower voltage contacts?
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, AK.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 6:42 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Where to buy KiloVac Contactors?
>
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>> Don't use this contactor above 120vdc. Lawrence Rhodes...
>
> Why, if it's rated for 2,000 air at 300 volts DC? Add a 10,000 AIR DC
> crash fuse on it and you should be ok, correct?
>
> Chris
>
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That may be OK for a power tool. We already discussed this.
Recharging in even 20 kWh in 5 min means few thousands amps
of battery current. Good luck to find suitable charger
(likely bigger than your car) and most importantly -
upgrade your mains - you charge at the rate 10-15 average houses
consume.
But I agree, the battery itself is interesting in that respect.
Victor
David Dymaxion wrote:
A123 claims a 100C discharge rate (yes, one hundred!), and a 5 minute
recharge.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Shawn,
If you open any modern laptop's battery pack you will see that
its 18650 cells made in millions today, have typically 2.2Ah
capacity at 3.6V nominal (792Wh).
A123 system's 26650 are 1.5 times as large and possess
3.3V*2.3Ah=759Wh.
What exactly is revolutionary about A123's product?
Victor
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
...
A123 Systems' first product, which will be available through
distribution in late 2006, will be a cylindrical 26650 form
factor
cell (26 mm diameter, 65 mm length).
Its basic specification is 3.3 V nominal (3.6V OCV) & 2.3 Ah
capacity.
We will put you in our data base and will get you more
information as
we are in a position to support your request.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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It occurred to me that the bike went over 150 MPH with the blue body and
also with the yellow body. Thus, by the strict definition that Ken is
using, I deserve two separate entries in the 150 MPH club. They would be
KillaCycle (blue) 151 mph, and KillaCycle (yellow) 152 mph.
I was running grey PVC tubes in a forward facing bundle for awhile and the
bike went well over 100 MPH, I guess that deserves a separate entry
(because the bike looked a lot different) in the 100 MPH club. I also ran
the cells in white PVC tubes sideways for awhile. This made the bike look
very different. This should be another entry in the 100 MPH club. Since I
have been struggling to get good batteries for the white bike, it should
get an entry in the 100 MPH club too!
Wow. At least 5 separate entries in the mph section for the same bike. It
works for me!
If I renamed the bike a few times, would I get more entries?
Bill Dube'
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How would these batteries fare in a street EV application?
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006020723155323&item=11-3052&catname=electric
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
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They may do OK, as they are AGMs (hard to find,
but after a while Googling I found:
http://networkpower.exide.com/exidepdfs/MarathonM2V300.pdf
NOTE that with OLD batteries, your mileage may vary wildly!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Freidberg
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Marathon series by GNB division of Exide?
How would these batteries fare in a street EV application?
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006020723155323&item=11-3052&catn
ame=electric
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
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On 2/9/06, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't mean to be stubborn about it, but I've never yet seen a DMM
> cause a spark when connected to measure a voltage, so I still think the
> most likely explanation is the obvious one.
I have, just last weekend, the cheap analogue meter I was using to
measure the output from a hydro generator sparked when I connected the
probe and went "pop" and let the smoke out before I could react. I
think it was caused by contamination / tracking on the meter's circuit
board.
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In a message dated 2/8/06 11:10:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< What about the Current Eliminator? Dennis has changed the body,
frame, motor, etc. probably more than once. From my perspective (as a
fellow racer) it always has been, and always will be the Current
Eliminator. It is his dragster, so it is what he chooses to call it. The
sign on his trailer says that the vehicle inside is the quickest EV in the
world. I agree with him 100%. He has made many improvements. That is OK. It
is what racers are supposed to do >>
***** The Current Eliminator has the original CAGE to this date as it had in
1992,but has been back and front halfed 3 times.Each time the frame was
changed the CE became CE 2 CE 3, 4-And where it is today CE5.There is no longer
a
sign on the side of my trailer.It was as CE5 that she ran 8s MANY times.It will
still be the CE5 when it WILL run 7s this year. Dennis
Berube happy to be the outlaw
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In a message dated 2/9/06 5:06:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
Date: 2/9/06 5:06:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/06 11:10:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< What about the Current Eliminator? Dennis has changed the body,
frame, motor, etc. probably more than once. From my perspective (as a
fellow racer) it always has been, and always will be the Current
Eliminator. It is his dragster, so it is what he chooses to call it. The
sign on his trailer says that the vehicle inside is the quickest EV in the
world. I agree with him 100%. He has made many improvements. That is OK. It
is what racers are supposed to do >>
***** The Current Eliminator has the original CAGE to this date as it had
in
1992,but has been back and front halfed 3 times.Each time the frame was
changed the CE became CE 2 CE 3, 4-And where it is today CE5.There is no
longer a
sign on the side of my trailer.It was as CE5 that she ran 8s MANY times.It
will
still be the CE5 when it WILL run 7s this year. Dennis
Berube happy to be the outlaw >>
*******The CE in record breaking trim has always been driven by a licenced
driver ME,had a NHRA legal chassis,and has always been nedra legal(Except when
I pulled my nedra membership)How many record holders in nedra ran
legaly?Drivers for bikes and cars,battery enclosers,tiedowns,cages ect for cars
under
11.49 ect. When records are set Nedra should and should have made sure that all
nedra and NHRA rules were followed for a Fair playing field for the new folks
coming on.After record runs for the superstars of NHRA everything is checked
including the nitro content of the fuel.In the NHRA you must also back up your
record run. Berube
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