EV Digest 5160
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Another Hot Lead. John Wayland eat you heart out.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Zivan exorcised, ? about ZA22D power board comm (Was: After Marin
ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism)
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) DAF, was: Possible conversion candidates. Arcane. One with CVT.C
omments!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 56 vw ev and Zap!
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Current Eliminator Dragster News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) RE: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
Correction - I did not say it needs to be a modern car.
Just one with very good parts availability. That includes
older cars like the rabbit, bug, porsche and a list of
others. Just be careful with "orphans" and less than
perfect bodied cars.
Even relatively modern cars that have been produced for
a long time are relatively simple.
My car of choise for conversion is the older style (E30
for insiders) of the 3-series BMW.
It was last sold in the 1991 model year, so I have a
car that is only 15 years old, has a huge history of
engineering all the problems out while having large
performance engines in the car (over 300hp for the M3
while my 325i only has 168hp) and a wealth of upgrades
and after-market parts to enhance suspension (for
example by robbing it off a salvage 320is) and many
places to go to get the non-Lectric support.
Should be very safe to convert to electric, as the
brakes and suspension are made to handle the M3 power
and are therefore over-engineered.
BTW - the information about a car can be had quite
cheaply if you don't mind reading and interpreting,
as the service manual on CD is not costly. I bought
one for my 2002 Prius and although it is a marvel
of modern technology, the info is neatly ordered and
I had no problem rebuilding my car from Salvage.
That is still a ways from converting it to electric,
but the basis information is readily available, in
particular for modern cars.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 12:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Another Hot Lead. John Wayland eat you heart out.
Cor van de Water wrote:
> there is a difference between [classic EV conversions] and the
> EV'ers that have a daily driver that needs to be reliable, very
> maintainable (preferably by the shop around the corner) and on
> a limited budget.
Modern cars aren't really built to be repaired. The assumption is that
most parts will *never* break in the life of the vehicle. When parts do
break, only the dealer will be able/qualified to fix it. There is very
little that the average self-taught backyard mechanic can do with these
cars. They are becoming a "black box" technology (i.e. the owner cannot
see how they work, and cannot fix them himself).
You can convert such a car into an EV; but it is a complex enterprise.
The EV parts aren't the problem. But you will need special tools,
special skills, and a lot more information to deal with the rest of the
car. The heating, cooling, lights, air bags, transmission, antilock
brakes, power steering, insturmentation, entertainment, and a myriad of
other systems are all tightly integrated. Changing one piece (like
removing the engine) disturbs all the rest in unpredictable ways. Also,
some of the materials used and construction techniques have been highly
optimized for mass production and crashworthiness. Clumsy modifications
could seriously compromise the strength and safety of the car.
So, converting a new car is a high-tech enterprise. Someone who is
determined, highly skilled and very detail-oriented will have had to
convert one first, and document it. They will have to figure out what
wires to cut and splice, and what "black boxes" to add to keep all the
rest of the systems working (air bags, speedometer, air conditioner,
antilock brakes, etc.). They have to decide what can be removed, and
what must stay; where you can drill holes to mount parts, and the places
to avoid.
If you want good end results, you should expect to pay for this
information. It is a lot of work, and good data is expensive. Since a
new vehicle itself is also expensive, you will wind up with an expensive
conversion. Frankly, from what I have seen, very few people go this
route.
But if you go back 20+years, cars were built with a different mindset.
They were a lot simpler, and a lot less reliable. Things broke more
often, so they needed to be fixed more often. The construction was
simpler, as it frequently had to be repaired by relatively unskilled
mechanics with only common tools. In the extreme, you had cars like the
old VW Beetle; a high school kid could fix almost anything in his
driveway with a screwdriver and a 9/16" wrench.
If you're working on a budget, and don't have a lot of skill, converting
one of these older cars makes a lot of sense. They don't have antilock
brakes, air bags, or computer controlled everything, so there are no
problems "interfacing" to these systems. Replacing the ICE with an
electric motor has essentially no effect on the rest of the car. So, the
EV conversion will be a lot cheaper, and get done a lot faster.
Of course, you get what you pay for. If you started with a rusty
30-year-old ICE pickup, you end up with a rusty 30-year-old EV pickup.
Even if you find one in great shape, or spend a lot of time on restoring
it to perfection, it's still a 30-year-old car. It won't have the
safety, reliability, advance technology, or styling of a new car.
But there's one more factor. If you drive an EV, then *you* will most
likely have to fix and maintain it! Nobody else knows enough to do it
for you. You can still get tires, a brake job, or other minor repairs
done at the corner garage, but as soon as "that 'lectric stuff" is
involved, the mechanics will hide. Even for the Toyota and Honda
hybrids, their dealers are often stumbling incompetents when it comes to
servicing the hybrid systems.
Since I know I have to maintain the car myself, then I would *far*
rather fix and maintain a 30-year-old car than ANY new car! Any kind of
servicing I can imagine is easier on these older cars.
I agree that parts are a problem. Some old cars are orphans; getting
parts for them is like finding hen's teeth (my 1980 Renault LeCar is in
this category). But, check into it -- sometimes you may be pleasantly
surprised. Some marques have an extensive and loyal following among car
nuts, so good used, remanufactured, and NOS parts are readily available
if you know where to look. For example, parts for my 1965 Corvair are
widely available and quite inexpensive.
> I know people that have their car spending more time in the body
> shop than that they are driving it. That is just not my type of car.
Me neither. I only have a car to drive it. I think of cars as
transportation; not art objects.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
first some intro, then an odd question.
Got a call from the wife late last night. Lost power in the EV; stuck about 1.5
miles from home. Ride over and eventually discover that a bus bar connecting
two batteries had worked itself loose, and under load had somewhat melted the
two posts it was connected to. Disconnected those batteries from the string,
jumpered past them, and got home on the remainder. On closer inspection, might
just be able to repair the damaged posts. Very frustrating -- had put in a week
of evenings into pulling and cleaning batts, battery box, and so on, about 30
miles before, to get the car in a state I was happy with (best laid plans and
all that, right?) and obviously didn't re-check the connections as well as I
should have (or, using just a nut + lug on LPT connections has bitten me --
will change that arrangement, perhaps adding a belleville washer etc). All in
all, can't complain -- could have been much worse.
Some troubling detail: When I arrived at the stricken vehicle, I came to notice
that there was no voltage across the rear battery pack. I then put the negative
lead on the "most negative" terminal (is there a correct phrase for this?) and
proceeded to place the positive lead on successive positive terminals, looking
for the failed connection. When I got past the bus bar, the DMM failed to read
the expected voltage. Which is when I spot the damaged posts. Hmm... time to
step backwards. Placed the lead on the damaged, negative post on the "more
positive" of the two effected batteries and...
*BANG* -- spark between post and meter lead! What!?! Quick check of the meter
to make sure I'm still on volts -- yep. Odd, perhaps a charge built up somehow,
and is now discharged? Try again -- same result. Maybe this (new) meter has
shorted internally? Check the voltage on a single battery -- all ok. Wait a
while, and try again -- no spark, and no reading (the bus bar was not making
contact at the other post at this point).
Now, the question/s: Is there a reasonable explanation for this? Is there some
mechanism by which a charge could build up on a damaged/melted post in such a
way that measuring across the battery pack with a voltmeter could produce a
spark? Any other theories for what I've described? Has anyone experienced
anything similar?
Grateful for any reply,
Claudio
(who should be thankful the meter copped the spark *before* he removed the
connections to "jumper" the pack to get home?)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For the record Roger, if I should set any new records with the Maniac Mazda
I will state what batteries were in the car, what motors and controllers and
the time slip that goes with the run will be the time slip I post for the
vehicle. I will not use a timeslip from any other run from any other
vehicle. What is at stake is integrity. The controllers I used for the
record are listed on drag times. I set an earlier record in another class
using twin 1400 amp Zillas. If I put that time slip up then I would post the
correct configuration. I will not rename my yellow street rod the Maniac
Mazda II and take the motors out of Maniac Mazda and then put up an old time
slip I got from the old car. You seem to think this has something to do with
NEDRA. In fact it does. It is affecting the credibility of NEDRA records. I
have been dealing with the F.I.A. lately. They have earned their credibility
over the years. I am still a NEDRA member and I do care about the
credibility of organizations I belong to. If this becomes NEDRA policy to
switch around times slips then I will resign my membership.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
Ken Trough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually, a totally different frame and a totally different
body mean you are talking about a totally different vehicle.
The "drive package" should consist of the motor, controller
and battery pack, yet I believe the controller and the
battery pack are different from when the record was set.
Without defending or condemning Bill's representation of the KillaCycle,
I would like to point out that by your definition of "drivetrain" we
should perhaps be re-examining performance claims for White Zombie and
Maniac Mazda, etc. also. Both cars have run various batteries over the
years, and White Zombie, in addition to having run several different
motors has also had the controller swapped out. When Rod brings Maniac
Mazda back out tho the track (this year, I hope), it is unlikely to be
running quad DCPs, or the Inspiras of its glory days; when it sets a new
record, should Rod have to rename the vehicle to distinguish the new
configuration's record(s) from prior Maniac Mazda records; same vehicle,
different drivetrain...
I should also like to point out that both Ken and Rod have issues with
Bill unrelated to his representations of the KillaCycle due to the
recent internal NEDRA turmoil, and while their concerns about Bill's
representations may be well-intended, they might also be reacting a bit
more vehemently than they would were it someone other than Bill.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Zivan was repaired w/o too much pain :-). I sent it into
Greg McCrea at Elcon/ZivanUSA up in Sacramento. I bought it from
him back about 1997-8. He said that the input rectifier was
blown, and that some of the components were loose (?). At any
rate, the charger is functioning fine now, and I'm keeping my
fingers crossed. I find it rather amazing that more wasn't blown
with that current surge on the second start-up attempt, but I
guess the fuses protected it.
At any rate, I partially disassembled the charger before sending
it on into him (putting it back together, of course). Aside from
noticing that both of the large fuses near the rectifier were
blown, and that the rectifier looked like it had some zorch marks
around its leads protruding throgh the power board (I only recall
seeing one rectifier), everything looked ok.
There is a ribbon connector (7 or 9 pin, if I recall) between the
logic board and the power board (power board stamped ZA22D). I
have to wonder if there is a way to tap in with a Y-connector to
tune into when the charger goes into its final constant I mode of
its IUI sequence, then monitor for dv/dt => 0. The charger does
a 3-hr final I mode. I've found that 1 - 2 hrs is usually when
the batteries top out and roll over with voltage going down. So
I'm wasting both electricity and being hard on the batteries.
Heck, I could probably even control the charger through that
ribbon with another processor if I knew the spec. But I didn't
find anything on Google. Probably only known to some
long-retired elf at Zapi/Zivan in Italy. Greg didn't respond to
my query on it.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
> I do not believe they even make a 96 volt NG1.
>
> Chuck Hursch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is that 10A @ 72V
about as high as it will go? At 96V it will
> probably be significantly less amperage. While it has most of
> the night to charge, I doubt I want to charge 235A-hr floodeds
at
> 6-8A all the time. I usually charge at ~11A off my 120V line
> with my Zivan K2. So all considered, if the K2 is toast, I'm
> probably just going to stick with my variac for charging. It's
> paid for.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ricky Suiter"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
>
>
> > No no no, I'm running 144 in my Saturn EV with a PFC30
charger.
> My GEM car (you know, those egg shaped NEV's) has a Zivan in
it.
> It's only 72 volts, and something like a 10 amp output from
NG1.
> The thing does draw something like 12 amps from the line though
> so that alone would generate some heat in any connection, throw
> in the poor fuse holder and melt!
> >
> > I added some captions to the photos.
> >
> > Chuck Hursch wrote:
> > Hi Ricky,
> >
> > Thanks for the tip, and I looked at the photos (annotations
> would
> > be helpful, at least saying what this photo is, and you need
a
> > close-up lens or somesuch, but I do appreciate you posting
> them).
> > Strange, the pdf file for the NG1 gave me the impression that
> the
> > NG1 would have troubles putting anything more than about 8A
> into
> > my 96V pack (pdf file on zivanusa site seemed to imply it was
> > more a lower DC voltage charger). Yet I got the impression
from
> > Greg that it might be closer to 10A or so, and here you are
at
> > 144V with your EV using an NG1 (at what amps?).
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ricky Suiter"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
> >
> >
> > > I'm not really familiar with Zivans other than the NG1
> charger
> > in my GEM car, but here's something to ponder. On the NG1's
> they
> > came with a plastic fuse holder for the main power in to the
> unit
> > with a 16 amp (yes 16 amp, kind of a weird rating) ceramic
fuse
> > in them. Well you pull ~12 amps at 120 through this and it
gets
> > pretty hot and it's a known issue with GEM's to melt this
fuse
> > holder, and of course mine did just that. Here's some
pictures
> of
> > the destruction and repair, the fuse holder took an EMI
> > supression capacitor next to it out with it.
> > > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ricksuiter/album?.dir=fb59
> > > I just soldered a fuse in directly to minimize any
> > unnecessary resistance the fuse holder may have caused. I've
> > corresponded with Greg from Elcon before and if you buy one
of
> > these chargers from him they automatically desolder the fuse
> > holder and solder a fuse directly to the board.
> > >
> > > Now granted when mine went poof I didn't have any strange
> > electrical things happen in the house, or even a tripped
> breaker.
> > >
> > > Chuck Hursch wrote:
> > > My 120V Zivan K2, which had been functioning perfectly for
> > years,
> > > died last night shortly after I plugged it in. When I
plugged
> > it
> > > in, it did its usual start-up sequence with the lights and
> all
> > > seemed well as I went back upstairs to my apt. As I was
> washing
> > > my dishes, I noticed that the 1/4-watt neon pilot light I
> have
> > in
> > > the kitchen for the 20A circuit that goes down to the
carport
> > was
> > > out. Odd, I thought, that is very unusual. The microwave
oven
> > > on that circuit is also out (no display), so it's not just
a
> > > burnt out lightbulb. Hmmm... Yep, the circuit breaker in
the
> > > closet is tripped. Well, gotta have power to figure out
> what's
> > > going on, so I decided to reset the breaker. Immediately
> heard
> > a
> > > sound that seemed like a lot of current was flowing, with a
> bit
> > > of light dimming and brightening on other circuits, but the
> > > circuit breaker did not re-trip. With the Zivan's normal
> > > soft-start, this would be a bit unexpected, although I
would
> > > occasionally get a bit of pop and arc when I would plug the
> > thing
> > > in, I presume charging up some caps (pop would depend I
think
> > on
> > > how true and quickly the plug went into the AC socket).
Well,
> > > with somewhat heavy heart, I tromped downstairs back to the
> > > carport, opened the hatch and peered in. No lights, no
> nothing,
> > > no smokey smell from the Zivan, just the usual whir of the
> fan
> > > venting the rear pack enclosure. I verified pack voltage at
> the
> > > charger, and nothing else seemed amiss that would cause the
> > > charger to malfunction. I disconnected the charger from the
> > > pack, unplugged the car, and decided to implement Plan B
> > charging
> > > in the morning.
> > >
> > > Always have a backup Plan B for charging. If I did not, I
> would
> > > have a semi-discharged pack sitting for days or weeks while
> the
> > > charger is turned around (if repairable), shortening the
life
> > of
> > > the pack, and making the car unusable. Plan B for me these
> > years
> > > is a 20A variac running through a full-wave bridge
rectifier.
> I
> > > have used this rig for equalizing the car's traction pack
> many,
> > > many times, but I have never really done a full bulk
charge.
> I
> > > thought one of these days I would try a practise run or
two,
> > but
> > > never got around to it. Now I'm doing it for real, as I
write
> > > this email. I am the servo (cranking up the knob as the
pack
> > > voltage rises, although don't have to do that much during
> most
> > of
> > > the bulk charge as the voltage doesn't move much), and it
is
> > also
> > > non-isolated charging (yep, the car is wet from last
night's
> > > rain, and the floor of the carport is also damp, but I've
> been
> > > there and done that with non-isolated chargers and haven't
> > gotten
> > > hurt, just don't like it anymore).
> > >
> > > I have a call into Greg McCrea, of Electric Conversions, up
> in
> > > Sacramento, the person from whom I bought the Zivan. A live
> > > person on the other end of the line, a woman, answered the
> > phone.
> > > Greg is supposed to call me back. In the meantime, I pour
> over
> > > in my mind the possibilities.(and it was a somewhat
sleepless
> > > night last night, thinking about the pack not getting it's
> > > nightly fill-up, and what's going on with the charger). I'm
> > > hoping it's nothing more than a blown rectifier that
tripped
> > the
> > > circuit breaker the first time around, and maybe blew a
fuse
> in
> > > the charger the second time around. My previous K&W BC-20
> > > charger had somewhat similar symptoms when it blew its
> > rectifier
> > > back in the late '90s, and fortunately that event took
> nothing
> > > else in the charger with it. K&W turned it around quickly
and
> > > inexpensively, and I used that charger for another year or
> two
> > > before I sold it to another EVDL'er.
> > >
> > > So any opinions amongst you learned exorcists out there as
to
> > > what happened with the Zivan?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Ricky
> > > 02 Insight
> > > 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> > > Glendale, AZ USA
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
> around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Later,
> > Ricky
> > 02 Insight
> > 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> > Glendale, AZ USA
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Photos
> > Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos,
events,
> holidays, whatever.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Photos
> Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in
your hands ASAP.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Claudio Natoli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> *BANG* -- spark between post and meter lead! What!?! Quick
> check of the meter to make sure I'm still on volts -- yep.
> Odd, perhaps a charge built up somehow, and is now
> discharged? Try again -- same result. Maybe this (new) meter
> has shorted internally? Check the voltage on a single battery
> -- all ok. Wait a while, and try again -- no spark, and no
> reading (the bus bar was not making contact at the other post
> at this point).
>
> Now, the question/s: Is there a reasonable explanation for
> this? Is there some mechanism by which a charge could build
> up on a damaged/melted post in such a way that measuring
> across the battery pack with a voltmeter could produce a
> spark? Any other theories for what I've described? Has anyone
> experienced anything similar?
My guess is that your meter probe was completing the circuit between the
bus bar and damaged post, and that this was causing a spark due to some
load on the pack (DC/DC for house bat or E-Meter, or output caps in the
onboard charger or , depending on how the vehicle is wired, maybe even
the controller bus caps).
I suspect that even without the meter, if you simply
connected/disconnected the bus bar from the post under the same
conditions you would see the same spark.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh yes, memories.
I used to have a DAF, back in the The Netherlands.
It was my first car. Two cylinders, air-cooled boxer.
The engine was so light that you could lift it alone,
even with the automatic clutch attached. (Each arm
supporting one cylinder)
BTW - the primary pulley has flyball-governer built-in
to help the carburetor vacuum to switch to high 'gear'.
I used to live less than 10 miles from the Dutch
DAF club parts warehouse.
If you consider (or have) a DAF, you should get in
contact with either the American or the Dutch DAF club,
that will make your life quite a bit easier.
You will need to be Dutch club member to buy parts.
http://www.dafclub.nl/
http://clubs.hemmings.com/frameset.cfm?club=daf
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 8:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Possible conversion candidates. Arcane. One with
CVT.Comments!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: Possible conversion candidates. Arcane. One with CVT.
>
> Daf 600
> <http://tinyurl.com/96qvv>
>
Hi All;
Just looked at this one. Ah! Memories, We did one of these at EFP years
ago. Bob Aronson's EFP of Detoilet, MI. With a Baldor 7 and a half hp motor
it ran quite briskly around town, when the Snowmobile type belt setup
squooze out about 60 mph could be obtained. As the squeeze of the pulleys
was determined by the manufold vacuum. We had to rearrange that system, upon
taking the thing apart found a flyball governor set up, ever take a Victrola
motor apart, to see the governor?Same thing.Adding weight to the gov.
weights took care of this speed adjust issue. We used a series parallel
controller and 144 volts worth of 12 volters.
But that car in the E bay is a piece of shit! Don't bother, or find a
clean Daf. Yeah! Good luck! Dafs are about as common as Palm trees in
Alaska<g>!But the Daf Veriomatic, too bad they wern't more common in USA.
In my travels yesterday I stopped at Total Performance Cars. They, to
you hotroddrers, build repro 32 Ford Roadsters. In Wallingford CT better
known here as "Wally World"You can have it in a kit or to a turnkey drive it
away. And you think EV's are expensive? These guys get princely prices for
the stuff. But they have a market. They are a auto manufacturer. And in CT?
I though they haven't built cars in CT since Pope electrics in Hartford and
Losiers in Bridgeport, 100 years ago, or more. Electrics EVen!But back in
those days CT was a maniufacturing place. Winchester is closing its doors
about now. For the gun thing.We still make jet engines in Hartford, Pratt
and Whitney"Dependable Engines " it sez on the engine you're looking at ,out
the window of the jet you're on.You HOPE so<g>!
Back to the story, I asked the guy how much the chassis weighed. He sez
that ready to run, with a big block Chevy, I think he sed? about 1600 lbs.
Damn thing must FLY!Without all the obsolete gas stuff aboard, well under
1000lbs. Chassis with a model T type front end and solid axle Ford 8 inch
rear end.Real Smithsonian stuff, but light. The fiberglas body was less than
100 lbs!Of course it is an open roadster, lousy for cold places, but cute
nontheless. I mentioned electric he sed that they had done a few electrics
for people or places in TEXAS!He couldn't give me any more details as it was
a few years ago. Any Total Performance Roadsters in Tex ya know about?
Whatthehell, here's a place building cars of Titanic era technology,
selling them, no crash standard issues. I consider the gas engines so
Titanic era tech. today, anyhow, 1912. Ya saw the movie?Great scenes of the
electrical generator room, marble switchboards, an' cool mechanical stuff.
They had the most awesome engine room scenes<g>! Go rent it!If ya
didn't!They still do shipwreck scenes today, the Egyptian Ferryboat disaster
the other day. See what happens , again, when folks get sloppy with safety?
This CT place can fly under the radar in car manufacturing. To me in the
budding Freedom EV era we can take a page from Performance's book on
building cars, EVen the Sunrise. Sell it as a kit to a turnkey thing, all
finished by a pro intererior detail guy.These guys must have a nitch thing
with regulaters, to building cars??Maybe they are only allowed to make X
amount of cars a year?
I was in Wally World at a performance shop, type of place that builds hot
rod motors, I mean ENGINES! Having my motor armature clutch setup balanced,
for the Rabbit. Put together,the armature, clutch and pressure plate, shaved
to 6 lb flywheel. He drilled and fussed with getting it all to balance.
Meanwile this place is a hangout for gas racing types. SOMEbody mentioned a
105MPH Datsun! They had SEEN the Drag Times thing! In CT Even, so this was
the topic over rounds of beers, as the racers goy EV educated, directed to
NEDRA. They had never heard of EV drag racing! Scary, but with the agreed on
gas chrisis just around the corner, it was a hot topic. These Beer guzzling
blue collar Joe Sixpack types willing to talk electrics, no Gen's on the
front wheels, very receptive to regen, and solar panels. The State of the
Onion thing the other day. Good round on laffs on that one!Oil co profits
was a hot topic as well as no national health coverage, as some of them had
been dumped in Co. changes.
We, EV's are being heard! I have a standing invite to bring assembled
Rabbit back on Fri nite jam session, anytime. Maybe with my new grabbier
clutch I can do a smoke show?
But it sorta makes a point. Our time is drawing nigh, the whole EV thing.
I'm sure back in cheap gas daze I woulda been laughed out of a Hot Rod
place!
Times are changing!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> For the record Roger, if I should set any new records with
> the Maniac Mazda I will state what batteries were in the
> car, what motors and controllers and the time slip that
> goes with the run will be the time slip I post for the
> vehicle.
Of course, this is as it always has been, and should be. I expect no
less for any NEDRA record.
> You seem to think this has something to do with
> NEDRA. In fact it does. It is affecting the credibility of
> NEDRA records.
I don't see that at all. If a competitor misrepresents his vehicle or
its records on his own website or elsewhere it absolutetly affects
nobody's credibility but his own. If NEDRA, however, allows records to
be reassigned to the same vehicle in a different configuration, or
indeed if they track records only by vehicle name without recording
vehicle details such as battery, motor, and controller used, etc. then
the credibility of NEDRA records is indeed compromised.
What Bill says about his vehicle's performance or its records has
*nothing* to do with NEDRA's credibility unless NEDRA rewrites history
to agree with those claims, something I am sure NEDRA has never done and
has no intention of ever allowing. The NEDRA records set by the vehicle
are documented along with the pertinent vehicle details and will not
change; if someone makes claims that conflict with the official NEDRA
documentation, it has no effect on the NEDRA record or its credibility
unless acceptable proof can be submitted verifying that the NEDRA
documentation is in error and should be corrected.
> If this becomes NEDRA policy to
> switch around times slips then I will resign my membership.
See, this is where you are making the leap that I don't follow: NEDRA
has not, to the best of my knowledge, switched around *any* timeslips,
Killacycle or otherwise. The issue here is that a competitor's personal
website describes the present configuration of his vehicle and implies
(or even states?) that this is the configuration associated with the
records set by prior configurations. I thought it was made publicly
clear recently that Bill (like yourself) is presently not affiliated
with NEDRA other than as a member, and so what he posts on his own
website or elsewhere does not represent NEDRA's view of the matter.
If NEDRA were concerned about this, corrective action would be as simple
as stating publicly that the vehicle that set the KillaCycle record(s)
had configuration XYZ (Kawasaki frame, Bolder batteries, etc.), and not
the vehicle/configuration of the same name that this has evolved into.
As Bill correctly notes, race vehicles do evolve and change in
configuration over time, so NEDRA records had better document the
record-setting vehicle in more detail than just name (and I believe this
is already the case); intentional or not, confusion will always
otherwise arise.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Roger,
thanks for the reply.
> My guess is that your meter probe was completing the circuit
> between the bus bar and damaged post, and that this was causing
> a spark due to some load on the pack (DC/DC for house bat or
> E-Meter, or output caps in the onboard charger or , depending
> on how the vehicle is wired, maybe even the controller bus caps).
I had opened a circuit breaker, that disconnects the negative side of the pack
from all loads (except the charger) before checking with the DMM. With the main
(+ve) contactor open, the pack was totally isolated from all loads (again,
except the charger).
The charger remained connected, but I don't believe it was the cause for a
number of reasons.
> I suspect that even without the meter, if you simply
> connected/disconnected the bus bar from the post under the same
> conditions you would see the same spark.
This is the main reason why I have to discount this as an explanation. I have
made that very connection under the same conditions before -- the bus bar in
question is (now) always the last connection I make when connecting the pack
after maintenance, with circuit breaker open, but charger hard-wired and
connected -- and I've never seen a spark when doing this procedure. I did not
make this clear in my earlier post, but this was quite a violent spark, with an
audible pop, sufficient to slightly pit the meter probe -- much more than I'd
normally expect and have previously witnessed in connecting a "live" pack.
Anything else? I know I'm totally at a loss to explain what I observed :-)
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
[ It's about F**ckin time! Way to go Jesse, guess I'll have to revise my
comments about you on the scion66 website! RC ]
From:
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/news.nsf/vwPressReleases/05B7EA8847B096A48625710A006F210D?Open
V-8 to V28T Power!
02/03/2006
Jesse James and the Monster Garage re-power a 1962 Chevrolet Bel Air with
Milwaukee V28T Lithium-Ion batteries!
Milwaukee's V28T lithium-ion batteries are getting noticed in more than one
way at recent trade shows. Contractors and builders from across the nation
checked out Monster Garage's latest mechanical marvel, a 1962 Chevy Bel Air
that has been re-powered to run off of 384 V28T lithium-ion batteries.
The car made its first public appearance at the International Builders' Show
held recently in Orlando and will be featured on the cable TV show, Monster
Garage in April 2006. (We'll let you know the date to tune in as soon as
it's
determined)
The car was designed and re-built in five days by cable TV's car-star Jesse
James and his crew at his Monster Garage in Long Beach, California. It did
standing quarter-mile runs in 14.533 seconds at 93.3 miles an hour, says Jon
Zick, Milwaukee's chief engineer of new concepts. With racing tires, he says
the Milwaukee-red, cool-looking car could do the quarter mile at over 100
MPH!
The batteries in the car were connected in series to produce about 336 volts
at 3,000 amps. The batteries drive twin electric forklift motors.
In every day life, the batteries drive Milwaukee's new line of V28T cordless
tools that includes a portable band saw, impact wrench, Sawzall®
reciprocating saw, circular saw and hammer-drill. V28T users can expect up
to 40-50% more power and up to twice the run time when compared with 18-volt
NiCd batteries.
Milwaukee will introduce a V18T 18-volt Li-ion tool system later this summer
that will retrofit on existing Milwaukee 18-volt NiCd cordless tools.
Click on website to watch a short clip from the V28 Electric Car episode of
Monster
Milwaukee Electric Tool Corporation
13135 W. Lisbon Road
Brookfield, WI 53005
1-800-SAWDUST (729-3878)
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 09:40:58AM +1100, Claudio Natoli wrote:
>
> Hi all,
Hey!
> *BANG* -- spark between post and meter lead! What!?! Quick check of the
> meter to make sure I'm still on volts -- yep.
Perhaps you moved the post a little bit causing the spotty connection between
the post and bus bar to reconnect for a second?
Just a though.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How did you pay for it ? Can you cancel payment ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I bought the 56 evw from Zap on October 3 2005. I received a copy of
the
> title and bill of sale a few weeks later, after several phone calls.
I
> also got a temporary paper to put in the window, and drive it daily.
The
> title has not arrived, so I went to Dmv to inquire about it this
morning.
> They said there is no record of any transfer in their computer, and
> suggested I contact Zap. I called a few minutes ago and was told that
> the papers were sent in and they would check with the Dmv and call me
> back. I will let you know my progress in getting this issue resolved.
> Bill
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
CE ran 9 passes on sat feb 4 at Speedworld.We had tried narrow wheels on the
big slicks to allow the slicks to grow earlier in the run to gain more
mph.Well we only gained .7mph but had a 12mph headwind so the car is racing for
points and money on the same track this sat. with the same setup.I also
adjusted
the brush timing on the 4th 5th and 6th runs and managed to take away 20 motor
amps to run the same et.Runs 7-8 and 9 were used to set the tire pressure a
little higher 1.75lb to eliminate some of the tire bounce I have had since I
put
on the larger tires.The reason for the bounce (7 to 10 bounces in the 1st 150
ft)?I believe the initial hit would wad the tires up then just a few feet out
the car looseing torque would settle down when at that point it should be up
on the tire.More air settled it to just 2 bounces at 150 ft so the car should
be even more conisent this weekend. Dennis Berube having a blast
racing with the NHRA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Claudio Natoli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The charger remained connected, but I don't believe it was
> the cause for a number of reasons.
What might be those reasons?
Unless the charger includes an output relay to isolate itself from the
battery when off, then its output caps remain connected across the
battery pack at all times.
Normally, when you open the breaker and disconnect a bus bar, the caps
are charged to the same voltage as the batteries, so immediately
reconnecting the bus bar will not result in a spark. If the charger
doesn't include a bleed resistor across the caps, then they will
discharge slowly and there might not be a significant spark even if you
leave the bus bar disconnected for a while.
In the case of your roadside breakdown, when the bus bar opened, the
load was still applied to the parallel connection of the charger's
output caps and the (open circuited) battery pack, so the charger's caps
would have been discharged completely almost imediately. Thus, when you
were probing around, you would have been suddenly applying full pack
voltage to the charger's discharged output caps and would reasonably
expect a much more significant spark than if the caps were still nearly
fully charged (as they would be in a more typical servicing situation).
I don't mean to be stubborn about it, but I've never yet seen a DMM
cause a spark when connected to measure a voltage, so I still think the
most likely explanation is the obvious one.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought it was made publicly clear recently that Bill (like
yourself) is presently not affiliated
with NEDRA other than as a member, and so what he posts on his own
website or elsewhere does not represent NEDRA's view of the matter.
This is not correct. When Dean hijacked the NEDRA website and the
board's discussion forum, he named Bill as national technical director
for the organization. I think how Bill represents himself with regard to
this record is very reflective of the NEDRA organization as he is
claiming a key leadership role of that organization.
http://nedra.com/about_us.html
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is true, if you lift up a battery connection while the charger is
connected to the battery, the charger capacitors still have some charge even
after 24 hours. I found this out when I remove a battery connection.
I therefore install a AC 3 pole Size 2 Magnetic Contactor with a 120 vac
coil between the battery charger and the battery pack. I parallel the
positive leads from the charger to a 3 poles of the contactor which is about
50 amps per pole. This contactor is close first before the load is apply
and open after the charger is shut down. I happen to have this in stock, so
I'm testing it out and it works very good.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: RE: Sparky sparky - roadside EV repair
> Claudio Natoli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > The charger remained connected, but I don't believe it was
> > the cause for a number of reasons.
>
> What might be those reasons?
>
> Unless the charger includes an output relay to isolate itself from the
> battery when off, then its output caps remain connected across the
> battery pack at all times.
>
> Normally, when you open the breaker and disconnect a bus bar, the caps
> are charged to the same voltage as the batteries, so immediately
> reconnecting the bus bar will not result in a spark. If the charger
> doesn't include a bleed resistor across the caps, then they will
> discharge slowly and there might not be a significant spark even if you
> leave the bus bar disconnected for a while.
>
> In the case of your roadside breakdown, when the bus bar opened, the
> load was still applied to the parallel connection of the charger's
> output caps and the (open circuited) battery pack, so the charger's caps
> would have been discharged completely almost imediately. Thus, when you
> were probing around, you would have been suddenly applying full pack
> voltage to the charger's discharged output caps and would reasonably
> expect a much more significant spark than if the caps were still nearly
> fully charged (as they would be in a more typical servicing situation).
>
> I don't mean to be stubborn about it, but I've never yet seen a DMM
> cause a spark when connected to measure a voltage, so I still think the
> most likely explanation is the obvious one.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--- End Message ---
