EV Digest 5163
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Caution on Mounting Flexible Solar Panels on Cars
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Keeping the Record Straight
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Acoustic noise from Vacuum Pump
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Battery Manu. looking for applications: was Re: Will Li be a
reality in 2006?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Porsche 911 at BBB Contact Info?
by Lowell Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Caution on Mounting Flexible Solar Panels on Cars
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Acoustic noise from Vacuum Pump
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery Manu. looking for applications: was Re: Will Li be a
reality in 2006?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Acoustic noise from Vacuum Pump
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Caution on Mounting Flexible Solar Panels on Cars
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Acoustic noise from Vacuum Pump
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Heatsink sought for Curtis 1221c
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Zivan exorcised, ? about ZA22D power board comm (Was: After Marin
ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The panels were install a few years ago by Pete Ohler.
I noticed some rust stain around the edges, so I
decided to remove the panels for a closer look. This
is what I found.
http://airlabcorp.com/EV/PaseoRustedRoof/
This car used to belong to Pete Ohler and he installed
the panels with 1" aluminum strips around the edges.
The strips are sealed with silicon so water could not
get thru from the outside. I think the problem is
condensation from the bottom. Moisture might get thru
from the bottom thru the holes used to run cables.
http://www.ohler.com/ev/paseo/index.html
Now, who knows how to remove the adhesive on these
panels. They are now full of rust. I tried rubbing
alcohol and lighter fluid. None worked.
P/S: We just got insurance settlement for the
accident. The original value was quote at $2600.
But, I then faxed them all the receipts of the EV
parts and batteries. It was re-valued by a third
party at about $6500. This should be enough to get
the front end repaired and get a long overdue paint
job. So, keep your receipts, guys and gals.
Ed Ang
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--- Begin Message ---
Chris Robison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Rather than suggesting that we need to reevaluate the
> identity of White Zombie due to various changes through its
> life, I think Roger was using your car as an example, in his
> rebuttal to Ken Trough. I think Roger interpreted Ken's post
> as implying perhaps that a significant change in the
> powertrain might equal a change in what the car is. Roger
> seemed to be holding the White Zombie as an example of why
> this isn't necessarily an accurate assumption.
Thank you, Chris; this is exactly what I intended.
To say I was surprised to find John's message in my inbox this morning
would be an understatement.
The point is that it is the norm for racing vehicles to undergo
drivetrain revisions as they evolve; indeed, as I think Bill has alluded
to, it is not even unusual for a vehicle to undergo chassis revisions
and still be considered the same vehicle.
This does not mean that it is defensible to represent a record/timeslip
as having been attained with a different revision of the vehicle than
actually made the particular run; on this I agree 100% with Rod. I
don't know if Bill or anyone else has made such claims, but if they
have, I maintain that such actions can only undermine their own
credibility, not that of the racing body that recognised the record and
correctly documents it as having been attained with the appropriate
vehicle revision.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone on this list compared the noise level generated from
different vacuum pumps? I'm frustrated with how loud the Thomas pump
is.
Thanks
John Grigg
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup,
It starts with re-charging your cordless drill in seconds,
then your electric car..... Someday...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Shawn Rutledge
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Manu. looking for applications: was Re: Will Li be
a reality in 2006?
On 2/7/06, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A123 system's 26650 are 1.5 times as large and possess
> 3.3V*2.3Ah=759Wh.
>
> What exactly is revolutionary about A123's product?
Yep they need to scale it up before it gets very interesting for us.
Apparently the Milwaukee V28 batteries are 3 amp-hour so that's in the
same ballpark, and maybe what they are trying to compete with.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 911 was built in a school in Virginia. The instructor's name is Byron
Grove-Humphries. His E-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'd like to be able to email and
maybe get some pictures of the
Porsche 911 that was at BBB, since I'm converting a similar car. Can
anyone please give me contact info or a web page for that car? Many
thanks.
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--- Begin Message ---
I had wanted to keep all of this NEDRA business offline but since you have
chosen to misrepresent the truth in public about the situation I have no
choice but to respond. OK Mr. know it all, the entire charter was illegally
posted to the entire list by Shawn Waggoner. If you would have taken the
time to read it before you opened your mouth you would have noted that it
states: "Elections will be held by ballot after July 1st and before
September 30th of the preceding year." It also states that: "The Membership
Director is responsible for disseminating ballot proxies, membership cards,
and benefits information to the members." Dean Grannes was the appointed,
not elected, Membership Director and it was his responsibility by the
charter to hold the election during the time frame set by the charter. He
never once in the history of NEDRA that I can remember ever held an election
on time according to the charter. Since he did not hold the election he
claims that due to his irresponsible behavior there is no longer any elected
officials after December 31st, 2005. The Membership Director and other
appointed board members are appointed by the elected President. If there is
no elected president then there can be no appointed board members. Are you
following this or is it well beyond your comprehensive abilities. What Dean
did was to use a part of the charter that he liked to claim that he was the
"Messiah" oh excuse me it was another illegal term not found anywhere in the
charter or any other NEDRA documents. He calls himself the NEDRA "Steward"
He stole the NEDRA website and the NEDRA treasury which he has no legal
claim to and appointed himself to his old board positions which he had no
authority to do. A law suite against Dean Grannes and Stephanie Masamura has
been set in process and will be settled in a court of law. You would be best
advised to take this off list as I had mentioned so many times before.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 7:21 PM
Subject: RE: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
Ken Trough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is not correct.
I stand corrected.
When Dean hijacked the NEDRA website and the
board's discussion forum, he named Bill as national technical
director for the organization.
I wasn't aware of this, however, to be fair, it seems that Dean is
merely attempting to restore NEDRA to the state it was in when the
President's term expired. It is my opinion that when one's term expires
the *only* business one should proceed with is that of holding
elections; one certainly cannot justify choosing to throw away the
organisation's charter and proceed with rule changes and director
changes when one's own term has already expired and then point fingers
at others as having "hijacked" the organisation. Like it or not, the
charter included a process for revisions to the charter itself, and this
is the only way that revisions to it should be undertaken.
It seems to me that the only road forward for NEDRA is to maintain the
status quo to the greatest extent possible (i.e. honouring the
resignations that were tendered) and work under the official charter
towards holding elections at the earliest possible opportunity. The
duly elected official(s) can then appoint a new board and, if they so
choose, work toward revamping the charter and rulebook following the
processes spelled out in the charter.
I think how Bill represents himself with regard to
this record is very reflective of the NEDRA organization as he is
claiming a key leadership role of that organization.
Then I think we've both made our *opinions* clear.
For myself, until NEDRA revises a Killacycle record, I am firmly of the
opinion that any questionable representations Bill makes about his
vehicle and its records that disagree with official NEDRA records only
serve to compromise his personal credibility as a competitor; the
integrity of NEDRA itself is preserved until such time as it officially
recognises such questionable claims as fact.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You need some STRONG solvent to remove silicone however there are rubbing
wheels you can get at the auto paint supply stores used for taking off skid
protection found on the bottom panels on most normal trucks / vans etc. It's
like a rubber eraser effect. It will work wonders on rubber, plastic and
silicone material. Go to any DuPont or auto paint supply store and tell them
what you are doing. Try these wheels I think they will do the job and a lot
safer than solvents. Use any standard medium duty drill.
Bad looking rust! Better to have the right adhesive material if you are
doing this again and don't allow water to penetrate below.
Pedroman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: Caution on Mounting Flexible Solar Panels on Cars
The panels were install a few years ago by Pete Ohler.
I noticed some rust stain around the edges, so I
decided to remove the panels for a closer look. This
is what I found.
http://airlabcorp.com/EV/PaseoRustedRoof/
This car used to belong to Pete Ohler and he installed
the panels with 1" aluminum strips around the edges.
The strips are sealed with silicon so water could not
get thru from the outside. I think the problem is
condensation from the bottom. Moisture might get thru
from the bottom thru the holes used to run cables.
http://www.ohler.com/ev/paseo/index.html
Now, who knows how to remove the adhesive on these
panels. They are now full of rust. I tried rubbing
alcohol and lighter fluid. None worked.
P/S: We just got insurance settlement for the
accident. The original value was quote at $2600.
But, I then faxed them all the receipts of the EV
parts and batteries. It was re-valued by a third
party at about $6500. This should be enough to get
the front end repaired and get a long overdue paint
job. So, keep your receipts, guys and gals.
Ed Ang
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
The trick to making them quiet is to mount it on a rubber trampoline. I
think Bill Dube gave me this idea. That's what I did on my last EV and
it made a huge difference for my large Gast pump.
I'll try to draw a 2D view for you...
[ Vacuum Pump ]
[] [] <--- Fasten your vacuum pump
to the heavy rubber pad
---------------------------- <--- Heavy but flexible rubber pad.
Think and rubbery.
--- --- <--- Washers
[] [] <--- Bolts or bolt/bracket
fasteners... whatever works for you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <--- Frame. You want something solid.
Now if you've done this already than I'd recommend a different pump.
Cheers,
-Dave
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
On Feb 9, 2006, at 1:40 PM, Grigg. John wrote:
Has anyone on this list compared the noise level generated from
different vacuum pumps? I'm frustrated with how loud the Thomas pump
is.
Thanks
John Grigg
_______________________________________________________________________
____________________________________
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
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sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or
distribution of this email (or any attachments
thereto) by other than the County of Sacramento or the intended
recipient is strictly prohibited.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
immediately and permanently
delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments
thereto.
_______________________________________________________________________
____________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Feb 2006 at 10:57, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> I had wanted to keep all of this NEDRA business offline ...
And you're not the only one. I have received complaints about this traffic
on the list.
I would like to remind all of you involved in this dispute that this list is
archived in several public places. Some things have been written in this
thread that most of you may not want to remain in the public record, visible
to anyone, including a potential employer. But they are there, and cannot
be removed.
Don't make it worse!
NEDRA has a Yahoo Group :
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA/
Please use that forum or private email to continue this exchange. I also
strongly suggest that the owner of that group make its archives private. It
hurts EV racing's image when this kind of fight is carried on in public
view.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, this can be done, but as I said in my post - your charger
(in this case dump pack) becomes as big as your car.
You force a user to have 2 packs now and large space for one
(and maintain it now, + another charger for it, etc etc).
Aside of this, no technical problems, dump charging has been
demonstrated to work well.
How many listers have dump charging implemented for their
daily EVs (not drag racing where you have very limited time
between runs)?
I dare to think none (if someone does, I'd be interested to
hear the reasons for having it).
Why?
*Normally* people have to have few hours to sleep daily.
That's enough to get re-charged with normal charger.
For 1% of NOT "normal" situations (too far, vacation,
taxi, salesman job, whatever) don't use EV. Rent a hybrid.
EV is wrong type of a car for the application (at least
today). You wouldn't run errands in the RV, would you?
This may not make practical sense 5-10 years from now but
today (based on what majority of people do, see photo album)
looks like it does.
Victor
Adams, Lynn wrote:
But if I had two packs, the first charged over a day (or better yet
night when rates are lower), used that for a dump pack to the pack in
the car. The thousands of amps from the mains problem goes away....
Lynn
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 8:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Manu. looking for applications: was Re: Will Li be
a reality in 2006?
Say you had a pack of the A123 batteries. On normal home service, how
fast could you charge it?
-Mike
On 2/9/06, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That may be OK for a power tool. We already discussed this.
Recharging in even 20 kWh in 5 min means few thousands amps of battery
current. Good luck to find suitable charger (likely bigger than your
car) and most importantly - upgrade your mains - you charge at the
rate 10-15 average houses consume.
But I agree, the battery itself is interesting in that respect.
Victor
David Dymaxion wrote:
A123 claims a 100C discharge rate (yes, one hundred!), and a 5
minute recharge.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Shawn,
If you open any modern laptop's battery pack you will see that its
18650 cells made in millions today, have typically 2.2Ah capacity at
3.6V nominal (792Wh).
A123 system's 26650 are 1.5 times as large and possess
3.3V*2.3Ah=759Wh.
What exactly is revolutionary about A123's product?
Victor
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
...
A123 Systems' first product, which will be available through
distribution in late 2006, will be a cylindrical 26650 form
factor
cell (26 mm diameter, 65 mm length).
Its basic specification is 3.3 V nominal (3.6V OCV) & 2.3 Ah
capacity.
We will put you in our data base and will get you more
information as
we are in a position to support your request.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I already have the pump installed in the engine compartment but I will
look into the sound insulating box idea for the rear of the vehicle.
I guess the biggest problem with my Thomas pump there is no exhaust
muffler. Trying to find something that would fit on the pump has been
difficult...
Has anyone used other pumps like the MES. I don't think I would try any
repurposed medical units though... :-)
John Grigg
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Ward
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Grigg. John
Subject: Re: Acoustic noise from Vacuum Pump
Have you thought about putting it in a sound insulated box and
installing it where your gas tank used to be? On my saab the area
under the back seat used to have the fuel tank. It now has the vacuum
resorvoir and will soon have the pump as well. They make a black
insulation material in a roll that is covered with foil for noise
insulation. Maybe try adding some to the box to reduce the noise.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- "Grigg. John" wrote:
>
> Has anyone on this list compared the noise level generated from
> different vacuum pumps? I'm frustrated with how loud the Thomas pump
> is.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> John Grigg
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _____________________________________
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
> confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended
> recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any
> attachments
> thereto) by other than the County of Sacramento or the intended
recipient is strictly prohibited.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this
email and any attachments thereto.
>
________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your problem is "galvanic corrosion". It can effect all metals when
mixed and electrical current just makes it worse. You need to
include a insulator between the materials. Spraying the area with a
rubberized coating to seal it and insulate it would help.
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Aircraft/galv-design.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/9/06 6:54:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
Date: 2/9/06 6:54:17 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
The key point was, the present version of the Current Eliminator, as it
exists at this very moment, couldn't run 8.8. Changes have been made since
that day in Sacramento. It is still 100% OK to say that the Current
Eliminator holds the World Record, however.
I have no doubt in my mind that with a few additional changes, the Current
Eliminator will see the 7's.
**** NO other changes but hi power batteries are nessary to make CE run 7s.In
fact if I had inspiras again the 2nd run down the track would net a 7
something Dennis Berube
Changes and modifications are what racing is all about. All the
top vehicles in racing are prototypes under development. Not static display
historical museum pieces.
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:06:39 -0800, "Roderick Wilde"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In your logic Bill holds absolutely no records as he is not the driver.
>
Nope, sorry. No more than Austin Coyle, John Force's Crew Chief for
many years holds any of John's records. Austin built the engine(s)
and supervised the construction of the car and ran the team but the
guy who's butt is in the saddle gets the record. Both the constructor
and the owner and the sponsor (if they are different) get to take
credit for their part but they do NOT hold the record. The record
goes to the driver/rider.
I have a very good friend by the name of Gary Johns who was one of the
winningest engine builders in NHRA throughout the 60s and on through
the early 90s. He still has a large engine building operation in
Jacksonville, Fl. He has literally hundreds of NHRA record
certificates on his shop walls. But none of them have his name in the
record-holder slot. He's listed as the "engine builder". The
drivers' names are listed as the record-holders. For many years he
was also the driver so his name is listed twice.
On a more personal level, the bikes that my partner and I constructed
won Daytona in the 100cc class in '72 and in both the 100 and 125cc
classes in '73. I'd never dream of trying to claim the win as mine.
The wins were accomplished by the riders, Ike Smith and Dale Singleton
AKA "The Georgia Pig Farmer" (old timers in the bike racing scene
probably recognize that name, as he won a couple of championships
before dying in an airplane crash.) When I talk about those wins, I
state it just like I did above - That Ike and Dale won those races on
the bikes that we built.
Not that there aren't some egotistical constructors and sponsors who
claim to own the records. But that doesn't change what name is
recorded in the official record book.
Now y'all can go off in any direction you like with NEDRA but if you
really do want to be "like NHRA" (and every other sanctioning body I
can think of) and be taken seriously by the rest of the racing world
then you'll recognize the driver as the record-holder.
You need to think ahead to some day in the future where EV racing
advances to the point where people are regularly breaking things and
when there is enough sponsorship money that racers can have more than
one vehicle available. If you allege that the record goes with the
vehicle and/or the sponsor and/or constructor, what are you going to
do when the racer breaks his vehicle and pulls the spare out of the
transporter? Are you going to try to track serial numbers or
something? If so, how 'bout when the car is damaged in a wreck to the
point where just about everything but the serial number tag is
replaced. What then? If the "vehicle did it" then when does the
vehicle stop being the vehicle - when the propulsion system is
changed? The frame? The wheels? The faring? The paint? The
sponsors? The rider/driver? This is really silly.
BTW, it isn't "my logic". That's just the way the racing world works
and always has worked since I can remember. That this is as obvious
as the nose on your face is evident and I can't imagine why you're
arguing over it.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
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Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I had wanted to keep all of this NEDRA business offline but
> since you have chosen to misrepresent the truth in public
> about the situation I have no choice but to respond.
I have misrepresented nothing, Rod.
> OK Mr. know it all, the entire charter was illegally
> posted to the entire list by Shawn Waggoner.
Illegally? You mean the NEDRA charter is something top secret and
somehow protected from publication or viewing by anyone outside of NEDRA
or its board: BS. It shouldn't even be necessary for one to ask about
the charter, it should be posted proudly on the NEDRA website for all to
see, NEDRA member or not. Before I join an organisation I'd like to be
able to examine the rules and principles governing its operation to
confirm that it is something I'd be proud to be associated with.
> If you would have taken the time to read it before you opened
> your mouth
You might want to take your own advice.
During your term as President it was your responsibility, as spelled out
in the charter, to appoint board members. You and your board must
accept responsibility for NEDRA's failure to hold elections since it is
due to the executive's inaction that board member(s) continued to hold
positions even after they had failed to perform their duties (or failed
to perform to the executive's satisfaction). By not taking action to
remove and replace these directors, you and the rest of the board have
signalled your satisfaction/approval of their competence and the degree
to which they were or were not fulfilling their responsibilities.
> Since he did not hold the election he claims that due to his
> irresponsible behavior there is no longer any elected
> officials after December 31st, 2005.
I prefer to let Dean state his own claims, however, I think it is
compeletely correct that whether the elections were held on time or not,
the elected term duration is fixed: the elected officials' term ended
after Dec. 31st 2005. I seriously doubt that there would have been any
outcry or disagreement about the board and elected officials continuing
to act in their positions had they recognised that they no longer had
the authority to make changes to the organisation and its operation, and
focused their efforts upon holding the overdue elections ASAP. Upon
re-election, the official(s) could have appointed a new board and
continued with whatever work was in progress when their prior terms
ended.
> The Membership Director and other appointed board members
> are appointed by the elected President. If there is
> no elected president then there can be no appointed board
> members.
Yes, there can be a board even without an elected President: read the
charter. There must be an elected President to appoint the board
members, but should the President subsequently resign or otherwise
vacate his position, the board members do not automatically vanish.
Once appointed, board members serve a 2 year term, same as the elected
officials, unless removed from their positions by a majority vote of the
board or membership, as described in the charter.
> What Dean did was to use a part of the charter that he liked
No, what he seems to have done is to correctly observe that failure of
*NEDRA* to follow one or more sections of the charter to the letter does
not invalidate the charter. The charter includes a section that
describes the allowed process for implementing revisions to the charter;
the President and/or board do not have the authority to set aside the
charter and write a new one, vote or no vote.
> He stole the NEDRA website and the NEDRA treasury which he
> has no legal claim to and appointed himself to his old board
> positions which he had no authority to do.
Given that the terms of both elected and appointed officials ended Dec
31st 2005, either all continued to act in their positions after that
point, or none did. You can't have it both ways. So, he has not
appointed himself to anything, he simply continues to act in the
position(s) that *you* appointed him to until such time as elections are
held and the newly elected President appoints a new board.
The Membership Director had just as much right to continue acting in his
position after the end of his term as the President and other directors
did. Had he chosen not to, or was removed from office under the process
spelled out in the charter, then the President could have appointed a
new Membership Director to coordinate the overdue elections.
David Roden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have received complaints about this traffic on the list.
I will not initiate another post on this topic, but I can't promise not
to respond to one.
> NEDRA has a Yahoo Group :
>
> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA/
>
> Please use that forum or private email to continue this
> exchange.
Unfortunately, that group is controlled by Rod and/or Ken and one
requires membership in order to participate. Needless to say, posts
there tend to be a little one-sided in their portrayal of the situation.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I own an Electravan that has a gasoline heater. I have seen conversions for
house heaters from natural gas/oil to vegetable oil. Has anyone converted
any of the gasoline heaters so they will work on vegetable oil?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Basicly none at all.
Shawn did most of it in his head, the hard part was the Battery box and the
Lion from Millwaukee and that was done mostly by Jon Zick, With a Lot
kibbitsing by the whole crew. The effort to get the battery pack and support
was about %70 of the whole effort. The motors were very straight forward,
drop 'em in and make it fit if you have to. Shawn did almost all of that.
Ron had a rear end shipped in that dropped right in, he did the install of
the drive line, exactly what he does for him own business.
Danny made the steel and frames and all the other Steel support an sheet
metal for the battery boxes and added purchases of the rear end.
Jesse made a batter support rack and made sure it was not plumb or squre...
because he wanted it to look a bit
strange. His total time on the build was abnout 5 minutes a day, and maybe 1
hour mid week.
So...Jesse didn't do much... except hassle us when we most didn't need it.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
>
> >The car was designed and re-built in five days by cable TV's car-star
Jesse
> >James and his crew at his Monster Garage
>
> So, tell us, Rich. How much "design" and "building" did old Jesse
> actually do? Or does he just take the credit?
>
> Shari Prange
>
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you thought about putting it in a sound insulated box and installing it
where your gas tank used to be? On my saab the area under the back seat used
to have the fuel tank. It now has the vacuum resorvoir and will soon have the
pump as well. They make a black insulation material in a roll that is covered
with foil for noise insulation. Maybe try adding some to the box to reduce the
noise.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone on this list compared the noise level generated from
> different vacuum pumps? I'm frustrated with how loud the Thomas pump
> is.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> John Grigg
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
> privileged material for the
> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of
> this email (or any attachments
> thereto) by other than the County of Sacramento or the intended recipient is
> strictly prohibited.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
> and permanently
> delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> But how likely is it that a new one will fail not having been
> misused or abused?
If you connect it up wrong, or apply too much voltage to any terminal,
it will fail RIGHT NOW. For example, grounding or putting full pack
voltage on the potbox inputs, or reversing the B+ and B- voltage, or
connecting too high a voltage to B+ and B-.
> How do they commonly fail? Spontaneous total failure without warning?
Water getting inside, or chronic overheating are slow killers. The
controller slowly gets worse over time. It starts to behave strangely,
cuts back on the current it delivers, etc. However, the casual user
probably won't notice anything is happening until the very end.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8 Feb 2006 at 11:24, Chuck Hursch wrote:
> The charger does
> a 3-hr final I mode. I've found that 1 - 2 hrs is usually when
> the batteries top out and roll over with voltage going down.
Do I recall correctly that the Zivan has an LED that comes on to indicate
this mode? Maybe you could use that to set a timer.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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--- Begin Message ---
Let me say this another way. This dispute is repelling people who just want
to build EVs, the primary purpose of the list. I am asking you all to
PLEASE take it somewhere else.
I'm sorry if the Yahoo group is not adequate. I really don't know anything
about it except that it exists. But I'm telling you that the EV list is
>>not<< the place for people to fight about the internal business of a
specialized branch of EV interest, or about the minutae of what constitutes
a "time slip" and what it applies to, or how much whose vehicle has changed.
As for personal integrity, none of you needs to defend himself here. I
suppose I speak only for myself, but I know you all well enough after all
these years that none of this changes my mind about anybody. I don't think
any more or less of anyone. None of the attacks and defenses has changed
anything. I suspect that's true for most other longtime list members too.
But my concern is that this is NOT necessarily true for new list members
and/or those who come across your posts in an archive on a search engine
hit. No matter whom they perceive as the "winner," whatever that means, the
craft of EVs and the sport of EV racing loses.
Besides, I wonder how many people are really reading this thread. You'd
have to either have a vested interest, or be a masochist. ;-)
Please, please, end the war and / or take it to private email.
Thanks for your understanding.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2/9/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I own an Electravan that has a gasoline heater. I have seen conversions for
> house heaters from natural gas/oil to vegetable oil. Has anyone converted
> any of the gasoline heaters so they will work on vegetable oil?
There is a Diesel webasto heater that works on the same principle as
the petrol one. It will run on vegetable (straight stuff, not used)
but requires the oil pre-heating to about 80 degrees C before it will
light properly, and even then is prone to cutting out, smoking and
gunging up the heater element and heat exchanger. It's an expensive
unit so I gave up at this point before damaging it. With a gasoline
one, you'd have even more problems.
There are other techniques for burning vegetable oil quite well, but
none of them are very well suited to mobile vehicle use. I think
you'd spend an awful long time trying to get it to work.
If you want cheap heat, get the diesel webasto and run it on red
diesel (road tax free).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
I am taking this off list just because of the title although I think the
information that follows is useful. The F.I.A is the only other major racing
organization I know of that keeps world records for EVs. In their record
keeping they list the Vehicle, who made the vehicle, and the driver. You
have made some good points but I think it will still be a few years away
from when and if NEDRA would consider changing the way records are listed.
The way it is now helps others to try to duplicate the performance of other
vehicles by knowing the configurations. The vehicle itself is more important
than who drove it. We don't have off the shelf Hemi equivalents. Things are
still way too new to have many high performance off the shelf products. The
only one so far is the Zilla controllers and they are even hand built.
Racing EVs are still in the 1950s stage of development. We still have a ways
to go to have 3 and 4 second ET EVs. Just some of my thoughts on the
subject.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:06:39 -0800, "Roderick Wilde"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In your logic Bill holds absolutely no records as he is not the driver.
Nope, sorry. No more than Austin Coyle, John Force's Crew Chief for
many years holds any of John's records. Austin built the engine(s)
and supervised the construction of the car and ran the team but the
guy who's butt is in the saddle gets the record. Both the constructor
and the owner and the sponsor (if they are different) get to take
credit for their part but they do NOT hold the record. The record
goes to the driver/rider.
I have a very good friend by the name of Gary Johns who was one of the
winningest engine builders in NHRA throughout the 60s and on through
the early 90s. He still has a large engine building operation in
Jacksonville, Fl. He has literally hundreds of NHRA record
certificates on his shop walls. But none of them have his name in the
record-holder slot. He's listed as the "engine builder". The
drivers' names are listed as the record-holders. For many years he
was also the driver so his name is listed twice.
On a more personal level, the bikes that my partner and I constructed
won Daytona in the 100cc class in '72 and in both the 100 and 125cc
classes in '73. I'd never dream of trying to claim the win as mine.
The wins were accomplished by the riders, Ike Smith and Dale Singleton
AKA "The Georgia Pig Farmer" (old timers in the bike racing scene
probably recognize that name, as he won a couple of championships
before dying in an airplane crash.) When I talk about those wins, I
state it just like I did above - That Ike and Dale won those races on
the bikes that we built.
Not that there aren't some egotistical constructors and sponsors who
claim to own the records. But that doesn't change what name is
recorded in the official record book.
Now y'all can go off in any direction you like with NEDRA but if you
really do want to be "like NHRA" (and every other sanctioning body I
can think of) and be taken seriously by the rest of the racing world
then you'll recognize the driver as the record-holder.
You need to think ahead to some day in the future where EV racing
advances to the point where people are regularly breaking things and
when there is enough sponsorship money that racers can have more than
one vehicle available. If you allege that the record goes with the
vehicle and/or the sponsor and/or constructor, what are you going to
do when the racer breaks his vehicle and pulls the spare out of the
transporter? Are you going to try to track serial numbers or
something? If so, how 'bout when the car is damaged in a wreck to the
point where just about everything but the serial number tag is
replaced. What then? If the "vehicle did it" then when does the
vehicle stop being the vehicle - when the propulsion system is
changed? The frame? The wheels? The faring? The paint? The
sponsors? The rider/driver? This is really silly.
BTW, it isn't "my logic". That's just the way the racing world works
and always has worked since I can remember. That this is as obvious
as the nose on your face is evident and I can't imagine why you're
arguing over it.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
Emerson
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