EV Digest 5193
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) OT: major breakthrough in photovoltaics claimed
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: go-kart charging
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: go-kart charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Lithiums in Parallel (was: RE: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go
Lithium!!!)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Pres Bush talks up Plug-in Hybrids
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Driving 45 mph on the freeway?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Calling all EV/Hybrid activists in Denver Metro Area
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Has anyone tried switching thru series strings of small AGMs to
maximize range?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) The President says:
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Anyone have experience with MK Battery AGMs or Gel Cells?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Pres Bush talks up Plug-in Hybrids
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: charger idea
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: I think I am going to need a lot of lead ...
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Full size pickup
by "James McKethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Big Bad Dumb Charger
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Series Chargers
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re:Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: OT: major breakthrough in photovoltaics claimed
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Free snowblower
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: charger idea
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Battery Trains, hybrid trains,
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Big Bad Dumb Charger
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Full size pickup
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: OT: major breakthrough in photovoltaics claimed
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) re: go-kart charging
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds good. Here-
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=143&art_id=vn20060211110132138C184427
...
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, some golf carts use 48V packs.
You might try checking at a golf course or place that sells/services golf
carts.
And, of course, there's eBay.
> Any ideas for an inexpensive 48V charger? I currently have 2 12V
> chargers. One is "well behaved" (charges at up to 10A, then holds at
> 14.5V) and the other is as stupid as they come (I've seen it get up to
> 16V). Currently I bulk charge with the stupid charger since the other
> one rarely gets even close to it's rated current, and usually charges
> at less than 5A.
>
> The batteries are surplus Hawker Oddesey 40 Ahr AGM's (The controller
> is surplus, too - hence the kart's nickname). I also have a Hawker
> G13EP as an "Aux" battery to run the contactor (and lights that I plan
> to add).
>
> David Brandt
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
David Brandt wrote:
> Last week I finally got the chance to teach my daughter how to drive
> "her" go-kart ("surplus power" from the evalbum).
Cute name!
> Any ideas for an inexpensive 48V charger? I currently have two 12V
> chargers. One is "well behaved" (charges at up to 10A, then holds at
> 14.5V) and the other is as stupid as they come (I've seen it get up to
> 16V)... The batteries are surplus Hawker Oddesey 40 Ahr AGM's.
Since they are AGMs, you want something fairly reasonable for a charger.
How about just using the "well behaved" charger with 4 relays that
sequentially switch it to charge the batteries one at a time? Slow, but
I imagine recharge time is not a problem. You just need four DPST relays
and a timer to switch them every 10 minutes or so.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> :
> And, given that it is rail... there's no reason to carry a lot of heavy
> batteries on board. It can get power via the rails or overhead wires.
> Cars not in use can transfer power to those in use.
What if the batteries were there to provide regenerative braking and enough
power to get to the next station?
Have a look at The Coaster ...
http://www.coaster.at/?frs=30&lid=2
http://www.coaster.at/?lid=2&pid=17&tid=53&mid=22
http://www.brusa.biz/applications/e_coaster_details.htm
Key Technical Data:
* Rail-based electric vehicle with 6-8 seats and its own drive mechanism
* Energy storage on board (energy recovery)
* Modular rail systems and bases
* Maximum incline climbing ability: 55%
* Narrowest radius: 6 metres
* Gauge: 1 metre
* Maximum travel speed: About 54 km/h
* Current capacity: 2880 people/hour/direction
Drive system
The multi-pole induction motor developed by BRUSA produces the necessary torque
for the forceful gradeability of the Coaster. At the same time the motor
permits high top speed by its large dynamic range.
Gear drive
The power transmission is achieved by a gear wheel. Only this way the
gradeability becomes possible. On the other hand fixed toothing with the track
permits centimeter-exact determination of the vehicle position.
Energy supply
The main on board battery is charged automatically during short and long stops
in the stations by a bus bar. The entire charging technology was developed by
BRUSA.
(BRUSA is the company that provided the motor and controller technology used in
the Solectria Force.)
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
lyle sloan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> LITHIUM ION was what was discussed about in
> the Monster Garage Build which the majority of
> industry uses cobalt.
FWIW, the cells used in the battery packs for the Monster Garage build
were E-One Moli Energy IMR26700 *manganese* lithium ion cells.
Phillipe was refering to LiIon cells that use *manganese* in their
electrodes as being safer than those which use *cobalt* in their
electrodes; he was not referring to alkaline primary (non-rechargable)
cells.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tuesday President Bush is going to NREL in Golden, Colorado.
He has been touting Plug-in Hybrid vehicles in his recent speeches,
including today at Johnson Controls in Wisconsin. Let's push it.
Could some folks in hybrids and EVs appear (I know there's a RAV4 EV
or 2 in Colorado) with signs supporting Plug-ins? It might help get
the message on the news. (Otherwise, the report could be all Hydrogen
and Nuclear, where the bulk of the federal spending goes.)
We need to foment a grassroots movement supporting Bush's call for
plug-in hybrids.
Red States Plug In!
Ideas? Questions?
Marc Geller
Plug In America
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave. What lane are you in when this happens? I get it sometimes but not
very often. When I get it I am usually going faster not slower like the
tailgating driver is just blocked in and is looking for a way out.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Driving 45 mph on the freeway?
I have one more I would like to add to the list of things to do. When I
find myself being tailgated (often at a speed ABOVE the posted limit) I
turn the emergency flashers on. This tends to get the tailgater's
attention, and they will usually drop back. I don't know if they are just
being cautious, or they don't want to be seen tailgating someone who is
drawing attention to himself that way. I feel justified (If a cop were to
ask) using the flashers, as I am in a dangerous situation, and it is much
safer that using the brakes, speeding or pulling over on a shoulder.
Dave
From deep within our secret soul
do demons dwell and take their toll
If you find yourself on the same road as an aggressive driver, the NHTSA
suggests that you do the following:
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tuesday Feb 20, President Bush is going to the National Renewable
Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colorado. I don't know what time, but I
bet it's in the morning.
He has been touting Plug-in Hybrid vehicles in his recent speeches,
including today at Johnson Controls in Wisconsin. Let's push it.
Could some folks in hybrids and EVs appear (I know there's a RAV4 EV
or 2 in Colorado) with signs supporting Plug-ins? It might help get
the message on the news. (Otherwise, the report could be all Hydrogen
and Nuclear, where the bulk of the federal spending goes.)
We need to foment a grassroots movement supporting Bush's call for
plug-in hybrids.
Red States Plug In!
Ideas? Questions?
Marc Geller
Plug In America
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How to maximize range with AGMs in my EV Geo?
If you are concerned with maximising range, do you really need to use
AGMs? Typically AGMs are used when one wants a better power to weight
ratio, since they allow one to assemble a reltively light pack that can
still dish out lots of current.
> So if the EV Geo cruises at 75 amps and peaks at multiples
> of this on hills and acceleration, then maybe use BCI=U1
> (~33ah) or smaller batts in 3 strings of 144 volts or less.
> Basically try to size them so they are delivering peak power
> as much of the time as possibile.
>
> So there's 3 strings of these but you are only running on 1
> string at a time. When the string is exhausted (50%-60%
> d.o.d), simply turn the dashboard rotary swtich to the next
> string and continue driving.
You aren't the first to think of this, but it still deosn't work this
way. ;^>
If you have 3 strings, but only run on one, then you are forcing that
one string to haul the dead weight of the others around. You are also
using smalller batteries and therefore discharging them at a higher
current relative to their capacity, which means you are making less
efficient use of the energy they contain. Finally, having multiple
strings of smaller batteries means more weight in additional cables,
connectors, etc. and less in active material for a given pack weight.
For maximum range, regardless of battery type, you want to have the
greatest possible weight of your chosen type of battery onboard, and you
want to discharge them at the lowest possible rate (relative to their
capacity).
3 144V strings of U1s (e.g. MK Battery 8AU1) is about 864lbs of
batteries. At 75A, a U1 lasts 10 minutes, so you would get 30 min total
run time by discharging each string individually. This is about 37.5Ah
(30min @75A). If you discharged all 3 strings simultaneously, each U1
is discharged at 25A and lasts about 54 minutes; this is 67.5Ah out of
the exact same set of batteries simply by discharging them as a single
144V pack instead of 3 individual strings.
3 U1s used this way are equivalent to a single 72lb 12V AGM that
delivers 67.5Ah @ 75A. A group 31 AGM (MK Battery 8A31) weighs 69lbs
and runs for 53minutes @ 75A (66.25Ah), so a single string of group 31s
would yield the same capacity while being 36lbs lighter (plus the weight
of the extra cables and terminals and holddowns, etc.) and would
eliminate a bunch of extra wiring and terminals and could reduce the
number of regs needed.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Picture this: Pull in & plug it into the wall....DUHHHHHHHHHH.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> We've used the MK battery size 22F in our BEST kid's EVs.
> They worked just fine. One of the survivors (now 8 years old)
> is currently the 12v accessory battery in my LeCar EV.
>
> They appear to be gel cells, or at least they behave like it.
> Internal resistance is high, and capacity drops fast at
> anything over 50 amps.
MK sells both gels and AGMs, so your 22NFs could certainly be either.
The gels sold by MK Battery are made by DEKA/East Penn; I don't know
about the AGMs. We've run MK Battery supplied AGMs in our Electrathon
and they've performed adequately.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't believe what I just saw on TV. I have been into EVs for over fifteen
years and I thought I would never live to see a leader of this country from
any party make the gesture I just saw. Bush with his fingers pressed against
his forehead and with the other hand gesturing said something like, see, you
just plug it in as if to emphasize the simplicity of the action. I almost
fell to the round in astonishment. It really doesn't matter if he believes
what he is saying or not. Millions of people will see this and will become
aware of electrics and plug in hybrids. I know he didn't mention pure EVs
but the gesture said it all.
Roderick Wilde, Director
Citizens for Rideable Communities
www.rideablecommunities.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Geller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RAV4-EV list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: Pres Bush talks up Plug-in Hybrids
Tuesday President Bush is going to NREL in Golden, Colorado.
He has been touting Plug-in Hybrid vehicles in his recent speeches,
including today at Johnson Controls in Wisconsin. Let's push it.
Could some folks in hybrids and EVs appear (I know there's a RAV4 EV or 2
in Colorado) with signs supporting Plug-ins? It might help get the
message on the news. (Otherwise, the report could be all Hydrogen and
Nuclear, where the bulk of the federal spending goes.)
We need to foment a grassroots movement supporting Bush's call for
plug-in hybrids.
Red States Plug In!
Ideas? Questions?
Marc Geller
Plug In America
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That first brings to mind the classic "monorail" Simpson's episode, when
the monorail starts running wild someone says "we can't turn it off-
it's solar powered." And Leonard Nimoy's character laments, in classic
sci-fi commentary fashion on the hubris of science- "Solar power- when
will they ever learn?"
Danny
Arthur Jones wrote:
hi lee, here is one of many links i found
about solar "ultra-light" rail. sounds like a
great idea to me:
http://www.ecotopia.com/ulr/index.html
arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another problem, the cooling fan on a PC power supply
is normally powered by its own 12V leads. So, when
you connect a battery to these leads, the fan would
run. Adding a diode would solve the problem, but this
is another problem to solve and another voltage drop
to worry about.
I toyed around with some of these a few months ago.
It is not too difficult to find the correct resistors
and tweak the output voltage higher. But, most have a
safety shut down if the 12V goes too high. Those I
tested would shut down around 13.5-13.8V. So, adding
a diode might bring it below the 13.5V needed to float
a lead acid battery.
Also, they would shut down due to an over-current
condition.
Ed Ang
--- Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> there is lots of way to modify the TL494 based PC PS
> then it can go to 24V
> still giving 13A continuous during few hours with
> added cooling ( i tested
> this on a 300W )
> " googleing" a little give informations on such PC
> PS modifications:
> in english:
> http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/radios/psu-pc1.htm
>
> i tested this one (french) which work great:
> http://blacjack.free.fr/Alim_labo_200W.htm
>
> problem is you have an inexpensive constant voltage
> and constant current
> power supply BUT still need a brain for battery
> charging.
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du
> volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Watson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: charger idea
>
>
> > Hi All
> > I have been following this thread and thought that
> there is something
> > else that I can add to this mix...
> >
> > A computer power supply is actually a mix of
> supplys... +12V, - 12V
> > and +5V. Also the + and - 12V are grounded
> together...if you were to
> > join them together you could have a 29v or a 17V
> supply... if there
> > is a 3.3V you could have 15.3V. Also the
> transformer in a simple
> > supply often gives something like 18V-24V for a 12
> V supply leaving
> > you room to just change out the +12/-12 V Ic for a
> 14V one
> > Tom
> > -----snip-----
> > mike golub wrote:
> > > I was wondering if I was trying to charge a 120
> Volt
> > > DC pack, and a got a 10 computer power supplies
> giving
> > > 12 volts dc each, could I connect them to charge
> my
> > > batteries?
> >
> > This idea has been discussed many times. If you
> have the patience, it
> > is
> > worth looking it up in the EV list archives.
> >
> > It can work, but it's not as easy as it seems.
> Here are a few of the
> > challenges to overcome with these supplies.
> >
> > - the 12v output is too low to charge a 12v
> battery (you need 15v)
> > - the 12v output is poorly regulated
> > - the ratings are often marketing exaggerations
> > - they have no charging algorithm, which is hard
> on batteries
> > - the outputs are not isolated (share a common
> ground)
> > - they often shut down if overloaded, rather than
> current limit
> > - most are cheap, poor quality, junk that don't
> last long in heavy
> > use
> > - they are not power factor corrected; more than
> a few at once will
> > trip the breaker on a 120vac 15amp outlet.
> >
> > There are workaround for all of these, but you
> have to ask yourself
> > if
> > it is worth the trouble.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
__________________________________________________________
> > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Now, I need to figure out how
> much lead I need to make that commute. Based on my experience with the Jet
> 007, I think that 20 batteries is not enough. I am thinking about 24, 26, or
> even 28. Can someone give me some better real world guidance on the correct
> number? Most likely, I won't be able to fit the batteries in the Festiva, so
> I'll probably have to go for a small pickup loaded with lead. If I was to use
> 28 batteries in 2 strings of 14 and still run at 84 V, do you think that will
> work? I need to keep the voltage down because that is only a 36 V motor, and
> I don't want to burn it up.
Steve, it sounds like you are in the same EV boat that I am in,
except that I am hoping someone can pull through for me with an
outdoor outlet.
It sounds like you'll be stuck with one of these
pickup truck deals. Or, add a battery trailer...
Unfortunately, the only things in the EValbum that mention trailers
are electric bikes...
Good luck, let us know how it goes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
List,
I would like to build a full size pickup truck. From the frame up and build
it right. I am going to strip an older full size truck down to the frame.
And begin there. I want it to make a statement. I am going to lower it and
replace most of the bodywork with fiberglass components to lower the weight.
I want to get some ideas from the group on what they would recommend. I
would like to be able to take it to the track, shows, and schools to show
what can be done.
I am open to any and all suggestions.
Regards,
James Mckethen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Has anyone ever looked into building a high power stupid charger for
fast recharging? I remember Bob Rice's "Little Blue Box", 70 Amps of
bad boy for charging a 120 Volt pack from 240 AC. What I was
wondering, given a fairly high current power source 240 VAC and a 40
or 50 Amp circuit, potentially about 7500+ Watts of continuous power,
what kind of off-board charger could be created to rapid recharge an
EV to about 80% charge? My thinking is up to 80% charge the
batteries should be much more forgiving, so there is very little need
for too much intelligence in the charger. For the final 20% of the
charge, a more advanced charger would be used. The big charger would
only be used when a very rapid partial recharge was desired. I guess
it would need some sort of over heat protection for the batteries though.
So, what kind of circuit would be appropriate for this kind of
thing? Bob's bad boy, while workable, seems a less than ideal
method. One of Rich's awesome chargers would do of course, but I was
thinking of something for those on a smaller budget. Given that it
doesn't need to be very portable, what might be possible? One weird
thought, an AC motor driving a large DC motor, AKA a motor/generator.
I suppose an even more powerful version would be just going to the
dump pack solution and a smaller charger to recharge that. How would
one control charging from a dump pack?
Anyway, is this ground already well plowed by others, or just the
silly dabbling of a semi-deranged mind? :)
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
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--- Begin Message ---
If you've got two or more of the same isolated charger, all putting out the
same amps, each of which is less than your pack voltage, are then an issues
with stringing their DC outputs in series? Are there pros and cons to do
that vs. splitting them across the pack instead (i.e., some number of cells
on each charger)?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/20/2006 1:11:29 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Diseasel
power was coming on line , at first with lightweight streemliners, Pioneer
Zephyr" comes to mind her 13 hour Chicago Denver record still stands!The
whole rig weighed less than a stick Pullman car of that era. She HAD to be
light to wring that speed out of a Winton 1200 hp Diseasel.Diseasel Electric
of course. Zephyr took the RR world by storm, folks enjoyed the smoke and
sootless ride.Hmmm Just like electric!Folks in the Big East had been
enjoying 100 MPH trains of HEAVY 20 car stock cars hauled by mighty
electrics, google" GG-1 "for a good read! Only lokie that I know with her
own website! This classy locos ran for 50 years hauling what ever needed,
freight or passenger, She didn't do 100 mph with 150 cars of coal, though!
Many survived in RR museums for your viewing pleasure. Somehow the cold
streel on display 'aint the same as a live one, but it is the best we can
do.
As a matter of fact Bob we have the Nebraska Zephyr in Illinois at the
Illinois Railway museum in the city of Union Illinois. What a thing of beauty.
You've probably all seen it in the movie a league of their own with Geena
Davis.
The portion when shes running to get on the train was shot on museum property.
Its normally kept in operating condition except that it was recently damaged by
backing over a frog switched the wrong way (or something like that) causing a
slight derail and a some sheet metal damage.
The diesal shop is large but nothing else in the place burns petroleum based
fuel.
I used to volunteer in the steam shop a little. Ton of maintanence on those
things. Unfortunately they will not be running the steam 1630 will not run this
year. But have no fear the boys in the shop are refurbishing several steam
engines now and one of them has to start running some time.
Of more interest to this group is the Electric train and trolley shop. There
are many examples of trolley cars, interurban cars and electric buses. Theres
always something from the electric shop zipping around the property. Check out
their website.Illinois Railway Museum
Rick Miller
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--- Begin Message ---
At 09:19 AM 2/20/2006, you wrote:
At 03:03 PM 2/19/2006, you wrote:
At 10:00 AM 19/02/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
I was informed solidly (as he goes there alot) that "no one" is or has
the ability any longer to make steel comm's even at higher prices at
least as far as these motors go. He suggests that once those comms are
gone they are gone.
G'day all
Maybe this is an opportunity for a small start-up business for someone
with the right tools and background?
What does it take to make a steel commutator anyway? As far as I can see,
it shouldn't be that complex a job for a half-decent machinist, except
for making the tapered commutator segments - but that isn't
unsurmountable, I can think of a couple of ways straight off the top of
my head.
Has anyone got a link to somewhere showing the construction of a steel comm?
If not then a description?
Regards
James
Best I can come up with at the moment is this.
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap2.htm
About half way down the page, Fig. 2-31
This is part of a series of submarine training manuals, all very interesting.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
Found a better picture.
http://www.usace.army.mil/inet/usace-docs/armytm/tm5-683/
Chapter 4 page 19.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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http://www.carbonfree.co.uk/cf/news/wk07-0008.htm
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sounds good. Here-
>
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=143&art_id=vn20060211110132138C184427
> ...
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
>
> My EV and RE Project Pages-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Talk about lookig foolish without looking at google. The new OMCs are
lighter, run smoother, are more efficient, emissions are lower, need less
maintainance, on and on.
Mark
Marc Breitman wrote:
The only good 2-stroke is a dead 2-stroke.
Chris
Amen
:^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
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A quick google would save you from looking
foolish.)
I may look foolish once in a while but this thread surely isn't one of
them!!!
Grasser
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The goat is a good step in the right direction for waste avoidance, though, as
it is used
in railyards as a locomotive push train-cars to place and build a trains to go
across
country to the next trainyard.
Almost all diesel trains use electric traction motors instead of mechanical
transmissions.
There is a hybrid train locomotive, though, and GM has built it, and put it on
their page:
https://www.getransportation.com/general/locomotives/hybrid/hybrid_default.asp
Take a look.
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
> > Hi Bob,
> > I don't know if you could truly call the Goat a 'full hybrid.' Not only
> > can it NOT be plugged in, but the regen uses the same resistor grids as
> > all other diesel-electrics, so the energy is wasted as heat. The only
> > advantage comes from the fact that they can use a smaller cleaner diesel
> > engine.
> > I was hoping that Metrolink and other heavy commuter rail could use
> > these, since they stop every two to three miles and spend a lot of time
> > idling.
> > But without the ability to recharge through regen, the Goat misses a big
> > part of the energy efficiency boat.
> > Tim
> > ---------
> > From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: February 18, 2006 10:39:59 PM PST
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
> > The Rail Power Hybrid locomotives, the "Green Goats" are pure hybrids
> > as the OOMPH is really provided by tons of batteries, rather than a Big
> > diesel engine. In that it can run strictly on batteries OR a small diesel,
> > provided to keep the batteries charged. I don't think Rail Power offers a
> > Plugitin loco? The Chicago, North Shore and Milwaukee RR had a fleet of
> > electric locos WITH batteries aboard for switching non wired sidings. The
> > batteries were floated on charge when the engine was running under the
> > catenery. Cool Idea! Always thought this would work for trolley buses, to
> > extending the routes and detours.
> > Todaze modern diesels mearly are electric locomotives that schleppe
> > along their own substation.Very easy to fit them with 3rd rail shoes for
> > running indoors, or urben areas where the Diesel smoke isn't
> > desirable.With a bit of creative engineering we could go a long way with
> > simple solutions.
> > Keep on Training
> > Bob
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BiG 3 phase rectifier modules..or 3 single phase power Blocks.
1 or more large IGBTs and a freewheeling diode and a Large inductor.
This is the design concept behind the 75Kw charger. REally big and stupid
power stage... brains to drive it.
Drive the IGBTs just like a Buck controller..in fact you could use a Curits
or a Zilla for the power stage.
Single phase is easy, you need only two 1/2 bridge modules. I use 250 amps a
bridge.
Make a large light dimmer circuit and a SCR to fire into the bridges... This
is what the Ammo Box charger was.
Using a transformer gets you isolation and allows you to better match the
rectified Grid to your target battery stack.
Adding some voltage control and corse Amp controls gives you a stout but
cheap power stage.
Warning about charging anything Fast.. the faster you can charge them.. the
faster you can get into really deap trouble. At over 100 amps into most of
our
Ev class batteries... some kind of feed back is needed to back off the Zorch
should a battery become "Full" in a hurry.
200 amps... of charge can make charging 50 amp hour AGMs a bit
exciting....if you know what I mean. hungry and empty to full in 15
minutes... This can make a LOT Of heat.. and you better
have them VERY well equalized... or you will pop a couple. We don't dare do
200 amp charges without Regs fed back to the power stage, and Digi regs
really help so you can see what is happening...real time.
Fairly high charger current for me is over 100 amps or 208 Three phase.
Our load bank runs for hours at 180 amps and 120 VDC.. this is just space
heat in this cold weather.
So the faster you go the more support you need. This is what makes a dumb
charge, not very dumb at all.
So the answer is Yes I have looke into it.. I have about 3 flavors in my
shop... and 42 copies of the PFC50 out there...
It's rather easy to get hundreds of amps of diodes and IGBTs bolted up...
It's another thing to get them to last and not blow breakers.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:11 PM
Subject: Big Bad Dumb Charger
> Hi folks,
>
> Has anyone ever looked into building a high power stupid charger for
> fast recharging? I remember Bob Rice's "Little Blue Box", 70 Amps of
> bad boy for charging a 120 Volt pack from 240 AC. What I was
> wondering, given a fairly high current power source 240 VAC and a 40
> or 50 Amp circuit, potentially about 7500+ Watts of continuous power,
> what kind of off-board charger could be created to rapid recharge an
> EV to about 80% charge? My thinking is up to 80% charge the
> batteries should be much more forgiving, so there is very little need
> for too much intelligence in the charger. For the final 20% of the
> charge, a more advanced charger would be used. The big charger would
> only be used when a very rapid partial recharge was desired. I guess
> it would need some sort of over heat protection for the batteries though.
>
> So, what kind of circuit would be appropriate for this kind of
> thing? Bob's bad boy, while workable, seems a less than ideal
> method. One of Rich's awesome chargers would do of course, but I was
> thinking of something for those on a smaller budget. Given that it
> doesn't need to be very portable, what might be possible? One weird
> thought, an AC motor driving a large DC motor, AKA a motor/generator.
>
> I suppose an even more powerful version would be just going to the
> dump pack solution and a smaller charger to recharge that. How would
> one control charging from a dump pack?
>
> Anyway, is this ground already well plowed by others, or just the
> silly dabbling of a semi-deranged mind? :)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
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Hello James,
To make the build easy in using aftermarket fiber carbon parts that will fit
the year vehicle you choose. Look at a lot of catalogs that supply these
items for a certain range of vehicles.
My problem with my EV which is a 1977 El Camino, is that they skip the years
from 1973 to 1977 for replacing a lot of the panels with these panels. If I
have chosen a 1978 year, I could have replace the front with a fiber air dam
and bumper, hood, front and rear fenders, hood, doors, rear gate, and
hatchback and rear fiber bumper.
The weight of the vehicle alone in stock form is 4400 lbs would have been
reduce to 2600 lbs. Replacing the frame with a chrome molly space frame and
install aluminum inner panels, the weight of one of these El Caminos was
down to 1300 lbs with a engine, which was built as a funny car by parts from
the El Camino Store.
Another way to go is to build the body out of magnesium steel aircraft type
of panels or something like a alclad alloy. To form these panels will take
a english forming wheels, rollers, and tig welders.
You can form a flat piece of metal to a round curve shape by cutting out a
wedge section out of the metal and than pushing that edges of the cutout
wedge together and weld that joint together. This will form a curve section
in any direction you want. This is a Italian method in forming a custom
made panels.
For maintenance ease, I would hinge the whole front and rear back. Could
make a mid motor assembly where the motor is connected to a transaxle and a
independent suspension system. There could be no wheel cut outs in the side
panels, because hinging the sections allows you access to the wheels.
One thing I used in my EV is a Air Ride Technologies suspension system and
Mark Williams axle systems which handles the added weight and height of the
car.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "James McKethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Full size pickup
> List,
>
>
> I would like to build a full size pickup truck. From the frame up and
> build
> it right. I am going to strip an older full size truck down to the frame.
> And begin there. I want it to make a statement. I am going to lower it and
> replace most of the bodywork with fiberglass components to lower the
> weight.
> I want to get some ideas from the group on what they would recommend. I
> would like to be able to take it to the track, shows, and schools to show
> what can be done.
>
>
> I am open to any and all suggestions.
>
> Regards,
>
> James Mckethen
>
>
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FYI, Honda is into this as well.
peace,
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.carbonfree.co.uk/cf/news/wk07-0008.htm
>
> --- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Sounds good. Here-
> >
>
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=143&art_id=vn20060211110132138C184427
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
> >
> > My EV and RE Project Pages-
> >
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
> >
> > Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
> >
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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--- Begin Message ---
with only 4 batteries would it be convienient to just charge in parallel
and run in series.
Suppose you made 2 plugs, a charge plug and a run plug, each with 8
connectors(how many amps are we talking)
low amps, use the plugs directly, high amps drive relays.
Recepticle
B- -----------o o
o o
o o
o o----------B+
chargeplug
0V 12V
o| |o
o| |o
o| |o
o| |o
runplug
0V--o ___/o
o/ __/o
o-/__/o
o-/ o----48V
no balanceing issues but slower to charge (for a given amperage, not watts)
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:19:29 -0600, "Andre' Blanchard"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Best I can come up with at the moment is this.
>http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap2.htm
>About half way down the page, Fig. 2-31
>
>This is part of a series of submarine training manuals, all very interesting.
Thanks for the link. That stuff still gives me a chubby :-) Did you
notice the siamese motor toward the bottom? Eat yer heart out, John!
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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