EV Digest 5192
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) MK3 reg pictures!
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Subject: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
by "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVs Knock Down two 1st & one 3rd Place Trophies at Rod & Custom Show!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV digest 5191
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) I think I am going to need a lot of lead ...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Honda Civic Coefficient of Drag
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Driving 45 mph on the freeway?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Free snowblower
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: charger idea
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) go-kart charging
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
by Arthur Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Dragtimes Vote
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: charger idea
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Rich sent me a picture of the MK3 digital regs:
small: http://www.evsource.com/images/regulators/rudman/resized/mk3.jpg
large: http://www.evsource.com/images/regulators/rudman/mk3.jpg
Info on the regs:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_mk3.php
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim;and EVerybody;
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
Snip a bit
the bars and place a small brush ring and brush set inbetween the shaft and
under the comm bars riding the inside of the comm. This got me thinking
that if one were to build an inside out comm?
Build a cup and place the bars inside with a brush set up to ride inside
RPM's would just push the bars tighter against the cup wall which could be
built to withstand alot of spin. FT and I got to talk about this alot this
weekend. When I find time I'll grab some pics of a steel comm bar, just not
sure if I have a blown one or not. If I don't I'll have to detsroy one but
even that sounds kinda fun, damn it I been hanging with John, FT, and Tim to
much, hehehe. I guess my thoughts are that there really are a million ways
to skin a cat and well if we're gonna do something why not do it even better
than what was going on 80 years ago??Hey I LIKE that. Thinking a bit out of
the round(box)?
The thoery sounds good. As the comm spins a zillion RPM, it
serengthens itself. the bars press lovingly INTO the structure. But on the
downside changing or EVen checking the damn brushes would be a royal
PITA!But you could go to a larger diameter?JUST clear of the frame, fins on
the outside or fan blades, for cooling? If Steel comms are a steal, you
could BUILD them, maybe. So guyz ask" is there a STEEL in there " instead of
a Hemi<g>!?Just a few thoughts as Comms have been around for about 120 years
as we know them NOW!
> Hope this helps, more to follow I'm sure. I was pretty burnt out
yesterday but wanted / needed to address the steel comm issues I learned
about and still need to verify.
> As it's close to time for me to head to the shop I wanted to throw out
something to chew on for awhile, hehehe.
> PS: trying to machine out a Bake-a- lite comm for steel use would not
work do to the different type of keys they use to hold everything tight.
The older comms also had alot more meat underneath adding to the heat sink
abilities of the bar itself as there was just alot more mass to the bars.
As was stated Mica sheet was the norm for steel comm insulation.
Yeah, I know Comms are an art form. Just a few thoughts I had? Following
up on yours.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While on the subject of battery powered trains...
Trains have the lowest rolling resistance of any vehicle; thus they
require the least amount of fuel per pound to move. But given the days
of cheap energy, this meant that trains got staggeringly heavy since
there is relatively little fuel penalty.
Even "light rail" is moving many times more weight per passenger than a
passenger car or city bus.
There was a company working on "lighter rail" -- building truly
lightweight rail cars for commuter trains. These could be far cheaper to
build, and use far less fuel to operate.
Ok... suppose you have lightweight rail vehicles. Trains have
exceptionally large amounts of roof area. A rail car might be 10' wide
and 80' long. If it was covered with solar panels, you might be able to
build a practical, passenger-carrying vehicle that can achieve
substantial speeds with ZERO fuel usage! Think of a giant-size version
of the solar race cars. :-)
And, given that it is rail... there's no reason to carry a lot of heavy
batteries on board. It can get power via the rails or overhead wires.
Cars not in use can transfer power to those in use.
Has anyone built any solar-powered rail vehicles?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ANOTHER episode of "This New Car" is now on-line (MP3 recording) at
http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar/schedule.htm
Podcast/RSS support for "This New Car" is available on the same page.
The episodes are 30 minutes each and almost all meat, very little fat compared
to most talk shows. Listen and see if you agree.
The entire schedule of 13 weeks ...
Available ...
#1 Pros and Cons of Hybrid Vehicles
#2 Pros and Cons of Alternative-Energy Vehicles
#3 Hydrogen-combustion vehicles
#4 Fuel-cell vehicles
#5 Electric & plug-in vehicles
#6 New-technology vehicles
#7 What makes a hybrid a hybrid?
In the February 19 show, "This New Car" explores What Makes a Hybrid a
Hybrid. Prior to its modern usage, the word "hybrid" was used in the
United States to mean a vehicle of mixed national origin -- generally, a
European car fitted with American mechanical components. This meaning has
fallen out of use. Some assert that current hybrid cars are not true
hybrids because they are not capable of using an internal-combustion engine
and an electric motor independent of each other. Others feel that none of
the current "hybrids" is a hybrid since none is capable of using alternate
fuels such as electricity from an outlet.
Coming ...
#8 Saving fuel with computers
#9 Detroit: Can the Motor City be hybrid-ized?
#10 "Green" vehicles: What are they and does the average consumer really care?
#11 What can we with the cars we're now driving to become cleaner?
#12 Is government doing enough to back "green" vehicles?
#13 Does everyone need to own a vehicle?
"This New Car", is a special 13-week edition of "The Business Beat", on
WICN/90.5 FM and at WICN.org in Worcester, MA, the National Public Radio
affiliate serving Central New England.
The experts for this lively, informative discussion on hybrid and
alternative-fuel vehicles are
Jim Dunn the NASA Center for Technology Commercialization
Gilles Labelle the Hybrid Center of Massachusetts at Westboro Toyota
Craig Van Batenburg the Automotive Career Development Center
all in Westboro Massachusetts.
"This New Car" is hosted by Steven Jones-D'Agostino of Best Rate Of Climb in
Worcester, MA, and sponsored exclusively by Westboro Toyota.
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who's to say that you can't mold the whole thing and then trim them on a
lathe as a unit...may be the best way to shape them after they've been
formed/mounted...
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
Hey James, all
First before we get the horse in front of the cart so to speak is I've
seen my share of blown steel comm, just not sure where they blew at,
lol. So even the steel guys have the weak points. The Bake-a-lite
comms have 3 to 4 "T" shaped lock down knubs that hold the bar in place
along the length of the bar. The old steel comm's had a fish tail
looking lock down in the center of the bar that the steel cones press
against to lock it all tight. There are two ways to tighten the steel
comm's that I've seen. One is to use a nut and thread and the other is
a tube rivit like style. Both can be tightened if they work loose which
is a big plus if things work loose. For an out of the box type idea
I've been thinking about when I had a guy who wanted me to bore out the
first half of the comm underneath the bars and place a small brush ring
and brush set inbetween the shaft and under the comm bars riding the
inside of the comm. This got me thinking that if one were to build an
i!
nside out
comm. Build a cup and place the bars inside with a brush set up to
ride inside RPM's would just push the bars tighter against the cup wall
which could be built to withstand alot of spin. FT and I got to talk
about this alot this weekend. When I find time I'll grab some pics of a
steel comm bar, just not sure if I have a blown one or not. If I don't
I'll have to detsroy one but even that sounds kinda fun, damn it I been
hanging with John, FT, and Tim to much, hehehe. I guess my thoughts are
that there really are a million ways to skin a cat and well if we're
gonna do something why not do it even better than what was going on 80
years ago??
Hope this helps, more to follow I'm sure. I was pretty burnt out
yesterday but wanted / needed to address the steel comm issues I learned
about and still need to verify.
As it's close to time for me to head to the shop I wanted to throw out
something to chew on for awhile, hehehe.
PS: trying to machine out a Bake-a- lite comm for steel use would not
work do to the different type of keys they use to hold everything tight.
The older comms also had alot more meat underneath adding to the heat
sink abilities of the bar itself as there was just alot more mass to
the bars. As was stated Mica sheet was the norm for steel comm
insulation.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque electric
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'day John, and all
At 04:45 PM 19/02/06 -0500, John wrote:
>This would be a simple CNC job. Why don't you design one, import the
>design into eMachineShop.com's free CAD/CAM software and see how it
>costs out? Their CAD software costs the job on the fly.
>
>The ultimate design would be an integral comm/shaft, all one piece.
>Nothing to come loose that way.
>
>If I were doing this project, I'd design it to use off-the-shelf bars.
>Lots cheaper that way and a lot easier to repair.
Yes, those are along the ideas that I'm having, but (as always) "the
devil is in the details":-
With what material should the comm segments be insulated from one
another and the clamping cones?
How much copper needs to be 'inside' the cones and at what angle to keep
them there?
I'm sure there are lots of other details I haven't thought of yet, which
is why construction details would be good. I'm not going to take either
of the two motors that I have with steel comms apart just to get the
details.
It may be possible to just take an oversized bakelite comm, machine the
ends for cones, machine some cones and conical insulators and put it all
together. Jim Husted, any input on that idea?
Starting from scratch, copper bar machined to the profile of the
commutator bars, then machined into the tapered segments, or machine
rings of the right profile and section them out with a slitting saw
(probably need to do several extra bars or shrink the diameter to the
finished size to close up the gaps).
>On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:03:33 +1100, James Massey
> wrote:
>
> >At 10:00 AM 19/02/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
> >>I was informed solidly (as he goes there alot) that "no one" is or
> >>has the ability any longer to make steel comm's even at higher
> >>prices at least as far as these motors go. He suggests that once
> >>those comms are gone they are gone.
> >
> >G'day all
> >
> >Maybe this is an opportunity for a small start-up business for
> >someone with the right tools and background?
> >
> >What does it take to make a steel commutator anyway? As far as I can
> >see, it shouldn't be that complex a job for a half-decent machinist,
> >except for making the tapered commutator segments - but that isn't
> >unsurmountable, I can think of a couple of ways straight off the top
of my head.
> >
> >Has anyone got a link to somewhere showing the construction of a
steel comm?
> >
> >If not then a description?
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on
new and used cars.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Talk about EV awareness, how much better can it get than this! Showing them
off in a predominantly gas powered show and walking away with some top
prizes. Way to go guys! Much congratulations!
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: EVs Knock Down two 1st & one 3rd Place Trophies at Rod & Custom
Show!
Hello to All,
It's been a l-o-n-g weekend! This is just a quickie to let everyone know,
that much to our complete surprise, all three of our racing EVs took home
trophies from this weekend's Portland Rod & Custom Show.
Father Time's electric Legend Car took first in its category over some
pretty heady gas car competition, and in a field of too many racing
motorcycles to list, his compact 'Frankendragon' electric motorcycle took
an impressive 3rd place.
White Zombie beat all contenders in the 'Unlimited Race' category and won
the first place trophy.
More to follow after some much needed sleep.
See Ya......John Wayland
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob,
That's a FANTASTIC idea. Run a couple hundred feet of third rail wherever
they park them to top off the batteries (and to let them actually shut down
the locos; Metrolink appears to idle ALL of their equipment EVERY night
while sitting.) Throw in some regen, and Metrolink could see some
substantial savings.
I seem to remember reading that the Goat still has dynamic braking, but no
regen. If they don't even have dynamic braking, then they're wasting the
energy AND their brake linings. :-)
Tim
-------
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids, more stuff.
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:35:50 -0500
> Hi Tim;
Hafta agree with ya on this one. A switcher doesn't go very fast. Most
Diseasel ones only are geared for 50-60MPH, RARELY go anywhere near that
fast 'cept to tow in a dead road job.Rescue service. Never seen any that
were fitted with dynamic brakes. I guess that the Green Goat folks took that
into consideration, as I don't think they have Dynamics? Now to do a
commuter car, regen would be a most important thing as you have to stop
EVery few miles and could recoop some juice for starts. When you get into
where the train or car is going you could have a few hundred feet of 3rd
rail, for it to charge while laying around, or over, crew can go get their
coffee, without having to plug anything in.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I started planning this EV project, I had a 6.5 mile (13 mile round
trip) commute at no more than 45 MPH. Some hills were involved. Based on that
commute, I determined that 14 x 6 V = 84 V in the Festiva would be sufficient.
This is based on my experience with the other EVs over similar terrain. So, I
started planning, buying parts, and building. About a month ago, I decided
that I needed a little more power, so I decided to change the motor. I went
from the 7" x 15" motor to the one from my old car. It is about 10.5" diameter
(also an old lift motor). Even on only 6 x 6 V = 36 V, that motor propelled
my 70 Saab Sonett to at least 30 MPH (40+ on the flat). But the range was
about 8 - 10 miles realistically. The car was parted out a few years ago, but
I
was able to buy back the motor from a friend who still had it in his garage.
That takes care of the motor. That 10.5" motor should be more than sufficient
to propel a small car at 65 MPH, even on 84 V.
Now, I have a new issue. Circumstances beyond by control have forced me to
find a new career. Now, I am looking at a 30 - 35 mile round trip commute, and
most likely I won't be able to charge at work. Now, I need to figure out how
much lead I need to make that commute. Based on my experience with the Jet
007, I think that 20 batteries is not enough. I am thinking about 24, 26, or
even 28. Can someone give me some better real world guidance on the correct
number? Most likely, I won't be able to fit the batteries in the Festiva, so
I'll probably have to go for a small pickup loaded with lead. If I was to use
28 batteries in 2 strings of 14 and still run at 84 V, do you think that will
work? I need to keep the voltage down because that is only a 36 V motor, and I
don't want to burn it up.
Any suggestions?
Steve
Atlanta, GA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking at a 1998 Honda Civic DX Sedan lets say. I'm having a hard time
finding reliable or accurate cd numbers. I saw some say .30, some even say
.38!! Anybody know what would be the approximate drag coefficient for this car?
Also, how low can I get this number by modifications such as a belly pan and
others?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have one more I would like to add to the list of things to do. When I find
myself being tailgated (often at a speed ABOVE the posted limit) I turn the
emergency flashers on. This tends to get the tailgater's attention, and they
will usually drop back. I don't know if they are just being cautious, or
they don't want to be seen tailgating someone who is drawing attention to
himself that way. I feel justified (If a cop were to ask) using the
flashers, as I am in a dangerous situation, and it is much safer that using
the brakes, speeding or pulling over on a shoulder.
Dave
From deep within our secret soul
do demons dwell and take their toll
If you find yourself on the same road as an aggressive driver, the NHTSA
suggests that you do the following:
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Marc Breitman wrote:
>
>
> The only good 2-stroke is a dead 2-stroke.
>
> Chris
Amen
:^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All
I have been following this thread and thought that there is something
else that I can add to this mix...
A computer power supply is actually a mix of supplys... +12V, - 12V
and +5V. Also the + and - 12V are grounded together...if you were to
join them together you could have a 29v or a 17V supply... if there
is a 3.3V you could have 15.3V. Also the transformer in a simple
supply often gives something like 18V-24V for a 12 V supply leaving
you room to just change out the +12/-12 V Ic for a 14V one
Tom
-----snip-----
mike golub wrote:
> I was wondering if I was trying to charge a 120 Volt
> DC pack, and a got a 10 computer power supplies giving
> 12 volts dc each, could I connect them to charge my
> batteries?
This idea has been discussed many times. If you have the patience, it
is
worth looking it up in the EV list archives.
It can work, but it's not as easy as it seems. Here are a few of the
challenges to overcome with these supplies.
- the 12v output is too low to charge a 12v battery (you need 15v)
- the 12v output is poorly regulated
- the ratings are often marketing exaggerations
- they have no charging algorithm, which is hard on batteries
- the outputs are not isolated (share a common ground)
- they often shut down if overloaded, rather than current limit
- most are cheap, poor quality, junk that don't last long in heavy
use
- they are not power factor corrected; more than a few at once will
trip the breaker on a 120vac 15amp outlet.
There are workaround for all of these, but you have to ask yourself
if
it is worth the trouble.
__________________________________________________________
Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last week I finally got the chance to teach my daughter how to drive
"her" go-kart ("surplus power" from the evalbum). It's been a while
since we've lived someplace we can actually drive it.
Our neighbor's kid, who constantly harrasses anyone on bicycles by
buzzing around them on his 4-wheeler, was annoyed he couldn't catch it!
It's not too quick off the line, but it is, as one person who
commented after I put it on the photo album put it, "scary fast!" I
need to add a chain tensioner, as the chain is as tight as I can get it
by hand, but is still loose enough to jerk and occasionally come off.
It doesn't help that the drive sprocket is almost as big a round as the
wheel.
Anyway, I'm reluctant to spend the huge amount that it seems like a 48V
charger costs, and so I wind up charging the batteries 1 at a time,
which takes a while.
Any ideas for an inexpensive 48V charger? I currently have 2 12V
chargers. One is "well behaved" (charges at up to 10A, then holds at
14.5V) and the other is as stupid as they come (I've seen it get up to
16V). Currently I bulk charge with the stupid charger since the other
one rarely gets even close to it's rated current, and usually charges
at less than 5A.
The batteries are surplus Hawker Oddesey 40 Ahr AGM's (The controller
is surplus, too - hence the kart's nickname). I also have a Hawker
G13EP as an "Aux" battery to run the contactor (and lights that I plan
to add).
David Brandt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As you are talking about blowned commutators, please get a look at 2 first
pictures of a french car (Volta 1993)
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/files/pa160753_426.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/files/pa160740_603.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/files/pa120715_393.jpg
Jim, just to let you know a French "electric motor specialist" is asking
2550 euros (arround 3000$) to revival this motor
(new brushes, bearings and commutator lathing)
For this price i told the owner he could pay me the travel to USA as i know
a real specialist which can certainly revival it for the same price included
my USA "visit" :^))
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
> Hey James, all
>
> First before we get the horse in front of the cart so to speak is I've
seen my share of blown steel comm, just not sure where they blew at, lol.
So even the steel guys have the weak points. The Bake-a-lite comms have 3
to 4 "T" shaped lock down knubs that hold the bar in place along the length
of the bar. The old steel comm's had a fish tail looking lock down in the
center of the bar that the steel cones press against to lock it all tight.
There are two ways to tighten the steel comm's that I've seen. One is to
use a nut and thread and the other is a tube rivit like style. Both can be
tightened if they work loose which is a big plus if things work loose. For
an out of the box type idea I've been thinking about when I had a guy who
wanted me to bore out the first half of the comm underneath the bars and
place a small brush ring and brush set inbetween the shaft and under the
comm bars riding the inside of the comm. This got me thinking that if one
were to build an i!
> nside out
> comm. Build a cup and place the bars inside with a brush set up to ride
inside RPM's would just push the bars tighter against the cup wall which
could be built to withstand alot of spin. FT and I got to talk about this
alot this weekend. When I find time I'll grab some pics of a steel comm
bar, just not sure if I have a blown one or not. If I don't I'll have to
detsroy one but even that sounds kinda fun, damn it I been hanging with
John, FT, and Tim to much, hehehe. I guess my thoughts are that there
really are a million ways to skin a cat and well if we're gonna do something
why not do it even better than what was going on 80 years ago??
> Hope this helps, more to follow I'm sure. I was pretty burnt out
yesterday but wanted / needed to address the steel comm issues I learned
about and still need to verify.
> As it's close to time for me to head to the shop I wanted to throw out
something to chew on for awhile, hehehe.
> PS: trying to machine out a Bake-a- lite comm for steel use would not
work do to the different type of keys they use to hold everything tight.
The older comms also had alot more meat underneath adding to the heat sink
abilities of the bar itself as there was just alot more mass to the bars.
As was stated Mica sheet was the norm for steel comm insulation.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque electric
>
> James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> G'day John, and all
>
> At 04:45 PM 19/02/06 -0500, John wrote:
> >This would be a simple CNC job. Why don't you design one, import the
> >design into eMachineShop.com's free CAD/CAM software and see how it
> >costs out? Their CAD software costs the job on the fly.
> >
> >The ultimate design would be an integral comm/shaft, all one piece.
> >Nothing to come loose that way.
> >
> >If I were doing this project, I'd design it to use off-the-shelf bars.
> >Lots cheaper that way and a lot easier to repair.
>
> Yes, those are along the ideas that I'm having, but (as always) "the devil
> is in the details":-
>
> With what material should the comm segments be insulated from one another
> and the clamping cones?
> How much copper needs to be 'inside' the cones and at what angle to keep
> them there?
>
> I'm sure there are lots of other details I haven't thought of yet, which
is
> why construction details would be good. I'm not going to take either of
the
> two motors that I have with steel comms apart just to get the details.
>
> It may be possible to just take an oversized bakelite comm, machine the
> ends for cones, machine some cones and conical insulators and put it all
> together. Jim Husted, any input on that idea?
>
> Starting from scratch, copper bar machined to the profile of the
commutator
> bars, then machined into the tapered segments, or machine rings of the
> right profile and section them out with a slitting saw (probably need to
do
> several extra bars or shrink the diameter to the finished size to close up
> the gaps).
>
> >On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:03:33 +1100, James Massey
> > wrote:
> >
> > >At 10:00 AM 19/02/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
> > >>I was informed solidly (as he goes there alot) that "no one" is or has
the
> > >>ability any longer to make steel comm's even at higher prices at least
as
> > >>far as these motors go. He suggests that once those comms are gone
they
> > >>are gone.
> > >
> > >G'day all
> > >
> > >Maybe this is an opportunity for a small start-up business for someone
with
> > >the right tools and background?
> > >
> > >What does it take to make a steel commutator anyway? As far as I can
see,
> > >it shouldn't be that complex a job for a half-decent machinist, except
for
> > >making the tapered commutator segments - but that isn't unsurmountable,
I
> > >can think of a couple of ways straight off the top of my head.
> > >
> > >Has anyone got a link to somewhere showing the construction of a steel
comm?
> > >
> > >If not then a description?
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on
new and used cars.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi lee, here is one of many links i found
about solar "ultra-light" rail. sounds like a
great idea to me:
http://www.ecotopia.com/ulr/index.html
arthur
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 11:13:33AM -0800, Lee Hart wrote:
> While on the subject of battery powered trains...
>
> Trains have the lowest rolling resistance of any vehicle; thus they
> require the least amount of fuel per pound to move. But given the days
> of cheap energy, this meant that trains got staggeringly heavy since
> there is relatively little fuel penalty.
>
> Even "light rail" is moving many times more weight per passenger than a
> passenger car or city bus.
>
> There was a company working on "lighter rail" -- building truly
> lightweight rail cars for commuter trains. These could be far cheaper to
> build, and use far less fuel to operate.
>
> Ok... suppose you have lightweight rail vehicles. Trains have
> exceptionally large amounts of roof area. A rail car might be 10' wide
> and 80' long. If it was covered with solar panels, you might be able to
> build a practical, passenger-carrying vehicle that can achieve
> substantial speeds with ZERO fuel usage! Think of a giant-size version
> of the solar race cars. :-)
>
> And, given that it is rail... there's no reason to carry a lot of heavy
> batteries on board. It can get power via the rails or overhead wires.
> Cars not in use can transfer power to those in use.
>
> Has anyone built any solar-powered rail vehicles?
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone,
I'm really happy to see the balanced views on this topic. Brooks' website
and our voting efforts have done a great job of raising awareness of EVs.
Then again, too much "EVs-in-your-face" could lead to a little resentment.
I'm not particularly worried about thin skin on the other racers, but from
the beginning I was concerned about EVs appearing like a flash in the pan.
Having our EVs in the top 10 for as long as they've been has been great. But
what an accomplishment it would be if there were at least one up there on
the "recent" or "top 10" lists for the whole year and beyond! I know there
are some incredible EVs in the works right now, and I can't wait to see how
they perform.
I wanted to let you all know that I got an email back from Brooks today
after I asked about the Audi and the short-lived "sponsor votes" feature. He
indicated that no one had actually used that feature to move up in the
standings, and that he doesn't think he'll be using it after all. I actually
got the impression that he was irritated about the Audi, but he confirmed
that those votes all came from different IP addresses. He couldn't find any
forums promoting the Audi, so I think he'll keep his eyes out for any other
suspicious voting flurries.
I told him I wouldn't be heartbroken if the 240 didn't make car of the month
for March since I still wasn't into the 12s with it. His advice to me:
"You've got 8 more days to make it into the 12s!" Nothing like a deadline to
speed up car repairs!
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Dragtimes Vote
Oat, you have a good point and your logic is sound. It could cause some
negative feelings about EV drag cars. On the flip side of the coin the
original intent was to bring about the awareness that EV drag racing
actually exists. Most people I talk to are amazed to find this out. The
other good thing to come out of all of this is that the webmaster has put up
a whole new page to showcase EV drag cars. Without the number of electrics
currently on the site it would not have warranted a separate page at all.
This I feel is a very significant gain for creating an awareness of EV drag
racing and EVs in general. This page will most likely exist even after there
are no EVs in the top 100. I say mission accomplished and now we can get
back to the battle :-)
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: Dragtimes Vote
> At 8:39 AM -0800 2/18/06, John Wayland wrote:
> .....
>>I vote every day for the EVs, and sure wish all who voted regularly and
>>propelled White Zombie to the number one spot, would do the same for our
>>EV friends fighting for next month's honor.
>
> Am I the only one that thinks that three months of EV's in a row might be
> boring to those not into EV's?
>
> I'm all for having EV's in the top spot every now and then, but too often
> and I think it reduces the effectiveness. I would think that the gassers
> would think we have taken over the site (as our large numbers certainly
> can) and then they might not go there as often.
>
> I for one am going to wait a couple months, then we can try for #1 again.
> Just my 20 milliwatts.
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/
> The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
> Now accepting resumes. Please see:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
there is lots of way to modify the TL494 based PC PS then it can go to 24V
still giving 13A continuous during few hours with added cooling ( i tested
this on a 300W )
" googleing" a little give informations on such PC PS modifications:
in english:
http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/radios/psu-pc1.htm
i tested this one (french) which work great:
http://blacjack.free.fr/Alim_labo_200W.htm
problem is you have an inexpensive constant voltage and constant current
power supply BUT still need a brain for battery charging.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Watson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: charger idea
> Hi All
> I have been following this thread and thought that there is something
> else that I can add to this mix...
>
> A computer power supply is actually a mix of supplys... +12V, - 12V
> and +5V. Also the + and - 12V are grounded together...if you were to
> join them together you could have a 29v or a 17V supply... if there
> is a 3.3V you could have 15.3V. Also the transformer in a simple
> supply often gives something like 18V-24V for a 12 V supply leaving
> you room to just change out the +12/-12 V Ic for a 14V one
> Tom
> -----snip-----
> mike golub wrote:
> > I was wondering if I was trying to charge a 120 Volt
> > DC pack, and a got a 10 computer power supplies giving
> > 12 volts dc each, could I connect them to charge my
> > batteries?
>
> This idea has been discussed many times. If you have the patience, it
> is
> worth looking it up in the EV list archives.
>
> It can work, but it's not as easy as it seems. Here are a few of the
> challenges to overcome with these supplies.
>
> - the 12v output is too low to charge a 12v battery (you need 15v)
> - the 12v output is poorly regulated
> - the ratings are often marketing exaggerations
> - they have no charging algorithm, which is hard on batteries
> - the outputs are not isolated (share a common ground)
> - they often shut down if overloaded, rather than current limit
> - most are cheap, poor quality, junk that don't last long in heavy
> use
> - they are not power factor corrected; more than a few at once will
> trip the breaker on a 120vac 15amp outlet.
>
> There are workaround for all of these, but you have to ask yourself
> if
> it is worth the trouble.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
> While on the subject of battery powered trains...
>
> Trains have the lowest rolling resistance of any vehicle; thus they
> require the least amount of fuel per pound to move. But given the days
> of cheap energy, this meant that trains got staggeringly heavy since
> there is relatively little fuel penalty.
> Hi Lee an' EVerybody;
A few comments on trains, again. Yes trains have got staggering ly
HEAVY to carry LOADS of heavy stuff. Like coal, a 30 ton alumninum hopper
car can swallow up over 100 tons of coal. Most modern freight cars tare
weight out around 30 tons, and can carry 4 times that, not bad, some folks
kid me with that with my Rabbit as to carrying alota weight.
> Even "light rail" is moving many times more weight per passenger than a
> passenger car or city bus.
>
Some get it down to 1k lbs or less if it is a full house thing.
> There was a company working on "lighter rail" -- building truly
> lightweight rail cars for commuter trains. These could be far cheaper to
> build, and use far less fuel to operate.
>
Rail cars are built rediculously heavy for protection, in wrecks they
try to offer some crash protection, I think Pass cars hafta be able to stand
400 tons compression strength, that's why you rarely see two cars where one
would normally be in wreck pix.They "Accordian" rather than compress, STILL
unnerving to those inside! So the answer was tons of structural steel, that
added to weight. Passenger cars evolved, intrerestingly the FIRST ones were
built with weight in mind, as the lokies of that era 1840 or so werent that
powerful, ether.10 tons was considered a heavy car. As wrecks became more
popular, the designers went back to work designing stronger cars. Steel
became more popular, although it took well into the 20th century before
steel became the material of choice for cars.Early steel cars were hidiously
heavy, upwards of 100 ton, til folks at Pullman and othere redesigned things
down to a slim trim 70 or so tons for a stock roaring 20's car.Diseasel
power was coming on line , at first with lightweight streemliners, Pioneer
Zephyr" comes to mind her 13 hour Chicago Denver record still stands!The
whole rig weighed less than a stick Pullman car of that era. She HAD to be
light to wring that speed out of a Winton 1200 hp Diseasel.Diseasel Electric
of course. Zephyr took the RR world by storm, folks enjoyed the smoke and
sootless ride.Hmmm Just like electric!Folks in the Big East had been
enjoying 100 MPH trains of HEAVY 20 car stock cars hauled by mighty
electrics, google" GG-1 "for a good read! Only lokie that I know with her
own website! This classy locos ran for 50 years hauling what ever needed,
freight or passenger, She didn't do 100 mph with 150 cars of coal, though!
Many survived in RR museums for your viewing pleasure. Somehow the cold
streel on display 'aint the same as a live one, but it is the best we can
do.
I felt lucky to have run a few of these before they retired of old age
! Like me! .A 240 ton power house! They could walk away with rediculously
long trains, and Oh how they sang along!,12 motors worth ,on a fast pass run
108 MPH and MOST of the throttle left!!All the right sounds!When you're
flying one of these, you wondered WHY the RR's didn't electify ALL the major
RR lines. GG-1's woulda been happy across the rockies, cruising across the
plaines at 100 or more. The nice a/c 'ed cab of an Acela wasn't just the
same.You could blow the old G's doors in, at 150 MPH, but with enough smooth
trak and high voltage on the wire, bettya a G could come damn close to 150?
You roasted in the summer and froze your ass off in the winter, the OTHER
two weeks were fine!Gees! you woulda thought they could have" wasted" a few
hundred amps on cab heat?!
Another point for trains rediculously heavy thing is that you have to
remove errent cars and trux that defy crossings, on an annoyingly regular
basis. You CA folks may remenber that nasty derailment when the Caltran
train wacked a Jeep on the trak, Kid was gunna try suicide, but changed his
mind, but Jeep was STILL on the track. Well had that been a Locomotive, even
a flyweight 105 tons ,my OTHER electric, for years.AEM-7 electric it woulda
kicked it out of the way! Instead, unfortunatly it was a push pull train,
with the flyweight, maybe 40 ton Cab car, engineer running it through the
magic of control jumpers, to the nice heavy loco in the back of the train.
Had they been going the Other Way the lokie woulda junked the Jeep with a
few bent handrails, to show for it.I hit a truck with a GM F-40 on Amtrak,
the cop needed a 'Damage to train" statement" I sez" How much do you get
for a can of Black Rust Olium?"Touch up the scratch on the cow
catcher(Pilot, proper term)They don't make them like they used to! The GE
Genisis Diseasels , Amtrak is runnin now,we call them "Genicides"Break up in
wrecks! Uni-body just doesn't hack it in wrecks! The Massive 30 ton girder
frame on the GM's cut trux in two handily, giving me, the pilot AND the
paying folks back in the train a fighting chance. Cars, NO problem!Log trux
are a challange though! The poor old Silly Meteor hits THEM on a regular
basis ,down south. derails all over the place, people like in" Trains,
Plaines and Automobiles"Walking away. Hollywood had it all wrong, in that
pix; RR woulda come out and towed that train away, passengers intact, with
maybe ANOTHER Alco 420 lokie<g>!They don't just LEAVE them there, in the way
of the money making freight trains!But it would have spoiled the Story!
Back to the story. Weight is good insurance for grade crossing
arguments, AND the penchant for kids? stacking stuff on the track, hoping to
see a train wreck? WHY else do they do it? We usually disapoint, although a
few times I thought we were going down for sure!After getting up off the
floor and determining that we were STILL on the track. After all it is only
1" inch flange on the inside of the wheel that keeps ya ON the track, as
well as steers. And you thought WE steered! But I'm pleasently surprised to
find out how WELL it works!This is mostly a USA issue, I think. In taking a
Chinese friend on the train, we were hit. He sez" In China ,we catch them
and shoot"! Well THAT would reduce the repeat offenders<g>! I think the
French keep the TGV fenced off, for these reasons? The French, I would hope,
would have severe punishment for people messing with their Signiture RR,
besides at 200 MPH it could be catastropic, hitting stuff Amtrak just plows
out of the way. TGV trains are about half the weight of the Acela. Acela had
to conform to USA crash standards. When the Swedish and German Hy speed
trains ran here, they got a one-off waver from the FRA ,to run.
Train folks in Europe and Japan are alot closer to lighter weights as
the vandalism thing hasn't cought on over there?
> Ok... suppose you have lightweight rail vehicles. Trains have
> exceptionally large amounts of roof area. A rail car might be 10' wide
> and 80' long. If it was covered with solar panels, you might be able to
> build a practical, passenger-carrying vehicle that can achieve
> substantial speeds with ZERO fuel usage! Think of a giant-size version
> of the solar race cars. :-)
> On a sunny day, maybe to keep rolling once yur batteries got you up to
trak speed?At night you would hafta park for the night. Would raise hell
with your speed average!But for a " Cruise" type tourist train, might work?
> And, given that it is rail... there's no reason to carry a lot of heavy
> batteries on board. It can get power via the rails or overhead wires.
> Cars not in use can transfer power to those in use.
> They have been doing it for about 115 years! I thonk the power fed to
the train by third rails OR Overhead is about the best way to go.
> Has anyone built any solar-powered rail vehicles?
Haven't heard of any. The Arabs could use them across the desert, sell
all the oil they save to us!
Good Read dept at better libraries EVerywhere:
" When The Steam RR's Electrified" by William Middleton
" The Inturban Era" ...same guy
" Trolley Car Treasury" Frank Roesome A great tongue in cheak history of
Electric, and also rans, trolleys, steam, clockwork, naptha and Gasp! AIR
cars! Cable, too for SF fans!
Seeya in Training.
Bob
> --
--- End Message ---
