EV Digest 5212
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors to drive a vehicle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) mkII Battregs
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger (was: RE: Big ...)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) E-Meter confusion
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger (was: RE: Big ...)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) REGBUS wiring (Was: Re: mkII Battregs)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dragtimes Vote
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-Meter confusion
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors to drive a vehicle
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger (was: RE: Big ...)
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Dragtimes Vote
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Information wanted - Jet Controller
by Matt Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors to drive a vehicle
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors to drive a vehicle
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors to drive a vehicle
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Avcon and Ford Ranger
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 35 mph @ 150 amps and 48 volts
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 35 mph @ 150 amps and 48 volts
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Sydney AEVA Field Day Sunday 26th Feb
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I do not think Mike is trying to sell you a pump, but just trying to
ensure that your system is safe.
Exactly. FWIW, our vacuum system costs $375. As noted, there are
others out there. Safety is NOT a place to cut corners for
budget. That said, a Metro is light enough that you might get by
with manual brakes, if properly sized, etc. Your 2-ton truck
probably has air brakes.
I stand by my position that if the original manufacturer felt power
brakes were needed for the gas version, they are even more important
in a heavier converted version.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I stand by my position that if the original manufacturer felt power
brakes were needed for the gas version, they are even more important in a
heavier converted version.
Actually, power brakes were created for pussys
I spent a good share of my early years building cars that competed in SCCA
( sports car club of America). Consiquently I also built some pretty high
performance street cars. A really long story short, if you proportion the
size of the master cylinder to the brake cylinders properly there is
absolutely nothing wrong with manual brakes. Real posative side to a manualk
brake system that is set up properly is that your pump won't fail and leave
you without brake because you don't have one.
A side note, with the added weight be sure to have the largest available
discs in the front and rear.
Another, a good test, if you can leave rubber on the pavement from a 60 mph
panic stop and you were able to do so with not too much efort, then you have
what you probably need.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An idea I've been thinking of for performance & I'm thinking the best part
of the Blue Meanie style & Cloud engineering performance is to use two
motors and two controllers. It'd be two 72v Axe controllers coupled to two
identical forklift motors or two A89's or L91's etc... YOu would use 72v of
Golfcart batteries as a minimum or two strings or 4 strings of optimas for
performance. The cheap part is to use small motors and controllers ala the
Cloud idea. This would work in a VW bug sized car or smaller. A simple
adapter plate with the motors over the axles. This would allow room for
batteries behind the axle. All you'd need is 12. It would have performance
and be inexpensive if you scrounged for the motors. If you did this I have
two I'd give you. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "P C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors to drive a vehicle
Hi Don,
Thanks for the input. I'm looking to do a budget conversion. Probably
not too scientific or engineered but I should be able to cost out the
motors somewhere around $10-20 per HP.
Sounds, like I should scrap the redundant idea and keep it simple.
If I ganged the motors together like the "performance" conversions do
with "performance" motors, can I treat the motors like one load on the
controller? Based on the voltage of the motors I'm probably going to be
stuck with parallel connections rather than series.
I've read about conversions with 8HP motors that peak to say 12HP and are
ready for the street. Am I safe to sum the HP's of the motors toegether
to get to into the 8-10HP range for a street capable conversion?
I'd then move back to the controller and batteries. I'm thinking of
doing a small pickup truck for flexibility on some of my design choices
but I'm not committed to any specific vehicle type. There's so much to
research to bring this together.
Thanks,
Paul
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am sure there are a number of things to consider:
- a controller that can handle multiple motors
- a controller that can accommodate differential
- the added extra unsprung weight of the motors mounted at the wheels
(leads
to poor performance)
Also consider: how often to motors fail? Enough to warrant building a
redundant system? When a motor fails is it a safety issue, that may
require
a redundant system? Brakes - yes. Motors - ?
For a project such as an EV conversion, it is important to understand your
goals. Is it new technology such as failover mechanisms or an inexpensive
EV conversion? Once you get clear on your goal and constraints, it will
help to make these decisions much easier.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ziperle
Sent: February 24, 2006 5:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors to drive a vehicle
I just read the EV article in Make magazine and it got me thinking real
hard
about doing an EV conversion. There is a picture of a Datsun with 3 motors
installed that was converted by Tom True and Don Crabtree. What is the
advantage of doing this? Is there any sense in doing cheap redundant
motors
and batteries RAIM?
New term maybe - R.edundant A.rray of I. independent or inexpensive
M.otors?
Crazy thought but EVs offer the possibility of driving the vehicle with
redundant systems. The thought I have is kind of like RAID or JBOD (just a
bunch of harddrives) for a computer, and doing this to a car. If a single
component were to fail, the vehicle might be able to continue moving on
the
balance of the systems that are still functioning. Obviously, failover
mechanisms would have to be baked into the design.
For example, a 2 wheeled vehicle with balanced batteries, motors and
controllers. One half of the systems could fail and the car could continue
to move although slower and for a shorter distance. If the car had 4
wheels
and separate controllers and batteries, the car could theoretically take a
75% component failure and still move.
Other possibilities are to failover some of the systems to extend the
range.
For example, a motor fails; the battery and controller could be engaged
onto
the still working motor.
Another thought is with a quad system, options exist like performance
mode -
run all for systems at the same time. Economy mode could run on half of
the
systems (front or rear wheels).
I found some DC treadmill motors cheap and in the 1-2.5hp range depending
on
input voltage? An example motor I found is rated [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and 5 amps, weighs 14lbs with a large fly-wheel that would
probably be removed.
I know this sounds wimpy compared to the Advanced DC or ETek motors but
does
this make any sense for an entry level conversion? I know there are many
other design considerations (donor car, batteries, controller, etc.) but
the
motor seems like a good place to start a design.
Also, does anyone have experience with controllers? Is it easier to
control
higher voltage or amperage? I would think that higher voltage has the
advantage of permitting smaller gauge wire and maybe better efficiency
when
it comes to voltage drops from impedance and resistance that are inherent
in
batteries, motors and controller components.
Thanks for the advice and opinions.
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These battregs are the bomb! I finally got them hooked
up. I got a bad batch of RJ connectors and was having
a hell of a time until a bought a network cable
tester. more than half of the cables I put together
were no good! I finally ran out of connectors and had
to buy a new bag. VIOLA! I haven't had a bad one
since! I have the regs mounted on top of the batteries
and it looks great. everthing is working perfectly and
the light show is so delightful as the green leds
start to blink. I got the 15 in the Triumph hooked up
and now I will put the other 25 in the BMW. I will
post some picks soon.
Gadget
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
> where can I get more information about a bonn
> inductor? Any pictures?
Sadly, I think Don Bonn passed away some years ago.
I don't have any pictures of my inductor, but it looks exactly like
every other 60 Hz transformer. E and I core, about 3.5" on a side, full
of copper wire. Except that a) it's all just one big winding, and b) all
the E's are in one stack, and the I's in another.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Everybody:
I finally got my E-Meter installed and it works fine. What confuses me
though are the different readings for State Of Charge, AmpHours and
available time. Since I have to enter the Peukert value, I would assume
that some of those values reflect a 'Peukert' corrected value, but which?
My batteries were fully charged when I left for work today. Shortly before
I reached the parking place, my E-Meter showed:
Ah consumed: 45
3 Bars (of 4) illuminated (60-79%) SOC
Time available: 0.5 hrs
>From that, I would say that the value for Ah is *not* Peukert corrected
while the SOC bars and the available time are.
I find that kind of weird as IMHO the most important figure would be how
much of REAL amps did I consume, meaning that the Ah counter should show a
Peukert corrected value. After all, I know that I have 220 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And it
would be nice if, after my drive, the E-Meter would show i.e. 89 Ah. That
would tell me exactly how much Ahs I burned and what ist still available.
Maybe I am missing something?
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> Much clearer, thanks a lot Lee.... looks easy except for the inductor.
> How can it be made for a 180 v pack?
You'd have to use 240vac, so there is only a difference of 240-180 = 60v
to drop across the inductor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Apologies if you already knew this. It might be useful to the next
guy, so I'm posting it.
On Feb 25, 2006, at 2:13 PM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
I got a bad batch of RJ connectors and was having
a hell of a time until a bought a network cable
tester. more than half of the cables I put together
were no good! I finally ran out of connectors and had
to buy a new bag. VIOLA! I haven't had a bad one
since!
That sounds like you might have bought (or been sold) the wrong kind of
RJ connectors the first time. This is a common problem in
telecommunications wiring.
There are two kinds of RJ connectors, one for solid core wire and one
for stranded wire. They don't work too well when used on the wrong
kind of wire.
The stranded wire kind usually has two little teeth that poke right
through the insulation and into the wire. The solid core kind has one
or more "splits" that squeeze down on either side of the wire and slice
through the insulation. In general, if you see the little vampire
teeth it's for stranded, and if you don't, it's for solid core.
For automotive use I recommend stranded wiring. It's less likely to
break under vibration.
To further complicate things, there are also connectors made for the
two types of wire cross-section - round and flat. Flat is the usual
telephone cord, sometimes called "silver satin". Round cable has the
wires inside twisted together in pairs for better noise immunity in
data communications applications. I don't think the REGBUS needs this,
but it wouldn't hurt if you used it anyway. You can also get the round
cable in outdoor formulations that might last longer inside a car.
Using a round cable in a flat connector makes it harder to get a good
crimp because there's too much insulation in the way. Using a flat
cable in a round connector means your cable might pull out later
because it's not as solidly held.
So there are actually four types of connectors: round/solid,
round/stranded, flat/solid, and flat/stranded. This gives you about a
75% chance of getting the wrong one :(
Hope this helps,
Doug
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Audi on drag times has finally got a comment but I am much too polite to
print it here :-) For those who are interested here is the direct URL
http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-S4-Timeslip-6528.html
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: Dragtimes Vote
FYI the Audi S4 is back at it again with a 600 vote overnight dump. It had
2874 votes as ot 10 pm last night and jump to 3384 by this morning. I vote
daily to keep this going but if this guy is going to move so many votes in
12 hours I don't know how the EV's are going to keep ahead
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That number is the real AH consumed. Peukert's affects how many AH of
the remaining charge could be used at the current level of consumption.
It doesn't make sense to apply it to AH consumed.
Danny
Michaela Merz wrote:
I find that kind of weird as IMHO the most important figure would be how
much of REAL amps did I consume, meaning that the Ah counter should show a
Peukert corrected value. After all, I know that I have 220 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And it
would be nice if, after my drive, the E-Meter would show i.e. 89 Ah. That
would tell me exactly how much Ahs I burned and what ist still available.
Maybe I am missing something?
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:43 AM 2/25/2006, you wrote:
> I stand by my position that if the original manufacturer felt power
brakes were needed for the gas version, they are even more
important in a heavier converted version.
Actually, power brakes were created for pussys
Could we leave out the insults, please?
I spent a good share of my early years building cars that competed
in SCCA ( sports car club of America). Consiquently I also built
some pretty high performance street cars. A really long story short,
if you proportion the size of the master cylinder to the brake
cylinders properly there is absolutely nothing wrong with manual brakes.
But the original post was just talking about DISABLING the power
brakes. Yeah, fine for gearheads to replace the cylinders, etc. You
could do that, I could do that, having spent several decades under
the hood professionally. But a lot of people couldn't, or wouldn't -
or shouldn't try.
My philosophy REMAINS to take advantage of the design work the
manufacturers already did for you when possible and appropriate.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking something similiar.
Get a Geo Metro or Ford Festiva, and the rear axle
from a Ford mustang.
Use a two small motors, maybe the 6.7" Advanced?
Use an adapter plate for the front motor to the
tranny, but connecting a motor directly to the pumpkin
on the axle, I need help with.
I was also thinking the two pot box could be connected
together. Perhaps to allow 40% on the two front
wheels, and 60% in the rear??
your thoughts?
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> An idea I've been thinking of for performance & I'm
> thinking the best part
> of the Blue Meanie style & Cloud engineering
> performance is to use two
> motors and two controllers. It'd be two 72v Axe
> controllers coupled to two
> identical forklift motors or two A89's or L91's
> etc... YOu would use 72v of
> Golfcart batteries as a minimum or two strings or 4
> strings of optimas for
> performance. The cheap part is to use small motors
> and controllers ala the
> Cloud idea. This would work in a VW bug sized car
> or smaller. A simple
> adapter plate with the motors over the axles. This
> would allow room for
> batteries behind the axle. All you'd need is 12.
> It would have performance
> and be inexpensive if you scrounged for the motors.
> If you did this I have
> two I'd give you. Lawrence Rhodes......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "P C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 9:17 AM
> Subject: RE: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors
> to drive a vehicle
>
>
> > Hi Don,
> >
> > Thanks for the input. I'm looking to do a budget
> conversion. Probably
> > not too scientific or engineered but I should be
> able to cost out the
> > motors somewhere around $10-20 per HP.
> >
> >
> > Sounds, like I should scrap the redundant idea
> and keep it simple.
> >
> > If I ganged the motors together like the
> "performance" conversions do
> > with "performance" motors, can I treat the motors
> like one load on the
> > controller? Based on the voltage of the motors
> I'm probably going to be
> > stuck with parallel connections rather than
> series.
> >
> > I've read about conversions with 8HP motors that
> peak to say 12HP and are
> > ready for the street. Am I safe to sum the HP's
> of the motors toegether
> > to get to into the 8-10HP range for a street
> capable conversion?
> >
> > I'd then move back to the controller and
> batteries. I'm thinking of
> > doing a small pickup truck for flexibility on some
> of my design choices
> > but I'm not committed to any specific vehicle
> type. There's so much to
> > research to bring this together.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I am sure there are a number of things to
> consider:
> >
> > - a controller that can handle multiple motors
> > - a controller that can accommodate differential
> > - the added extra unsprung weight of the motors
> mounted at the wheels
> > (leads
> > to poor performance)
> >
> > Also consider: how often to motors fail? Enough to
> warrant building a
> > redundant system? When a motor fails is it a
> safety issue, that may
> > require
> > a redundant system? Brakes - yes. Motors - ?
> >
> > For a project such as an EV conversion, it is
> important to understand your
> > goals. Is it new technology such as failover
> mechanisms or an inexpensive
> > EV conversion? Once you get clear on your goal and
> constraints, it will
> > help to make these decisions much easier.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of ziperle
> > Sent: February 24, 2006 5:06 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Newbie question: Multiple cheap motors to
> drive a vehicle
> >
> > I just read the EV article in Make magazine and it
> got me thinking real
> > hard
> > about doing an EV conversion. There is a picture
> of a Datsun with 3 motors
> > installed that was converted by Tom True and Don
> Crabtree. What is the
> > advantage of doing this? Is there any sense in
> doing cheap redundant
> > motors
> > and batteries RAIM?
> >
> > New term maybe - R.edundant A.rray of I.
> independent or inexpensive
> > M.otors?
> >
> > Crazy thought but EVs offer the possibility of
> driving the vehicle with
> > redundant systems. The thought I have is kind of
> like RAID or JBOD (just a
> > bunch of harddrives) for a computer, and doing
> this to a car. If a single
> > component were to fail, the vehicle might be able
> to continue moving on
> > the
> > balance of the systems that are still functioning.
> Obviously, failover
> > mechanisms would have to be baked into the design.
> >
> > For example, a 2 wheeled vehicle with balanced
> batteries, motors and
> > controllers. One half of the systems could fail
> and the car could continue
> > to move although slower and for a shorter
> distance. If the car had 4
> > wheels
> > and separate controllers and batteries, the car
> could theoretically take a
> > 75% component failure and still move.
> >
> > Other possibilities are to failover some of the
> systems to extend the
> > range.
> > For example, a motor fails; the battery and
> controller could be engaged
> > onto
> > the still working motor.
> >
> > Another thought is with a quad system, options
> exist like performance
> > mode -
> > run all for systems at the same time. Economy mode
> could run on half of
> > the
> > systems (front or rear wheels).
> >
> > I found some DC treadmill motors cheap and in the
> 1-2.5hp range depending
> > on
> > input voltage? An example motor I found is rated
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 5 amps, weighs 14lbs with a
> large fly-wheel that would
> > probably be removed.
> >
> > I know this sounds wimpy compared to the Advanced
> DC or ETek motors but
> > does
> > this make any sense for an entry level conversion?
> I know there are many
> > other design considerations (donor car, batteries,
> controller, etc.) but
> > the
> > motor seems like a good place to start a design.
> >
> > Also, does anyone have experience with
> controllers? Is it easier to
> > control
> > higher voltage or amperage? I would think that
> higher voltage has the
> > advantage of permitting smaller gauge wire and
> maybe better efficiency
>
=== message truncated ===
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--- Begin Message ---
would the transformer from a microwave be a good
candidate?
Last time I tried to play with one...it was very
difficult to the wire. Is there a way to soften it up?
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> mike golub wrote:
> > where can I get more information about a bonn
> > inductor? Any pictures?
>
> Sadly, I think Don Bonn passed away some years ago.
>
> I don't have any pictures of my inductor, but it
> looks exactly like
> every other 60 Hz transformer. E and I core, about
> 3.5" on a side, full
> of copper wire. Except that a) it's all just one big
> winding, and b) all
> the E's are in one stack, and the I's in another.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
Rod, I've heard a lot of things about you, but polite was never one of
them!!
Just kidding!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Dragtimes Vote
> The Audi on drag times has finally got a comment but I am much too polite
to
> print it here :-) For those who are interested here is the direct URL
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-S4-Timeslip-6528.html
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:32 AM
> Subject: RE: Dragtimes Vote
>
>
> > FYI the Audi S4 is back at it again with a 600 vote overnight dump. It
had
> > 2874 votes as ot 10 pm last night and jump to 3384 by this morning. I
vote
> > daily to keep this going but if this guy is going to move so many votes
in
> > 12 hours I don't know how the EV's are going to keep ahead
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/266 - Release Date: 2/21/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: 2/24/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>Actually, power brakes were created for pussys
Could we leave out the insults, please?
Actually Mike, It's no different then the comment " It's to bad they
invented the automatic transmission, It made it so women could drive cars".
That's a quote, from my now deceased father.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have information on the controllers that came with the
Jet Electrica? I would love a tech manual on this. There isn't even
an info plate on the box.
Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1981 Jet Electrica, Ford Escort
My daughter named it, "Pikachu".
It's yellow and black, electric and
contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Much easier to go with an AWD, like a Subaru, because with IRS the
rear differential doesn't move, check out <http://www.proev.com>.
Using a solid axle, like from a mustang, means you need a driveshaft
that allows for movement, check out <http://www.plasmaboyracing.com>.
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking something similiar.
>
> Get a Geo Metro or Ford Festiva, and the rear axle
> from a Ford mustang.
>
> Use a two small motors, maybe the 6.7" Advanced?
>
> Use an adapter plate for the front motor to the
> tranny, but connecting a motor directly to the pumpkin
> on the axle, I need help with.
>
> I was also thinking the two pot box could be connected
> together. Perhaps to allow 40% on the two front
> wheels, and 60% in the rear??
>
> your thoughts?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw the proev site, BUT
it seemed pretty hard...because they tossed all the
stock subaru stuff away.
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Much easier to go with an AWD, like a Subaru,
> because with IRS the
> rear differential doesn't move, check out
> <http://www.proev.com>.
> Using a solid axle, like from a mustang, means you
> need a driveshaft
> that allows for movement, check out
> <http://www.plasmaboyracing.com>.
>
> --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was thinking something similiar.
> >
> > Get a Geo Metro or Ford Festiva, and the rear axle
> > from a Ford mustang.
> >
> > Use a two small motors, maybe the 6.7" Advanced?
> >
> > Use an adapter plate for the front motor to the
> > tranny, but connecting a motor directly to the
> pumpkin
> > on the axle, I need help with.
> >
> > I was also thinking the two pot box could be
> connected
> > together. Perhaps to allow 40% on the two front
> > wheels, and 60% in the rear??
> >
> > your thoughts?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another idea...
maybe just get two FWD Geo Metro's and cut them in
half, and then join the two fronts.
Lock the new "rear" steering. Order two 6.7" motors,
perhaps one clockwise and one counter-clockwise...
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Much easier to go with an AWD, like a Subaru,
> because with IRS the
> rear differential doesn't move, check out
> <http://www.proev.com>.
> Using a solid axle, like from a mustang, means you
> need a driveshaft
> that allows for movement, check out
> <http://www.plasmaboyracing.com>.
>
> --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was thinking something similiar.
> >
> > Get a Geo Metro or Ford Festiva, and the rear axle
> > from a Ford mustang.
> >
> > Use a two small motors, maybe the 6.7" Advanced?
> >
> > Use an adapter plate for the front motor to the
> > tranny, but connecting a motor directly to the
> pumpkin
> > on the axle, I need help with.
> >
> > I was also thinking the two pot box could be
> connected
> > together. Perhaps to allow 40% on the two front
> > wheels, and 60% in the rear??
> >
> > your thoughts?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I got this email below off list, but I know there are many people
here to better qualify to answer this one than me.
If you choose to answer, please direct it to
TheLefeverFamily_at_aol.com
Thanks,
Victor
------------------------------
We have a 2000 Ford Ranger Electric Vehicle. This is a pure electric
vehicle not a hybrid and needs to be on a charger constantly when not
being driven. We are going to start living, full time, in our motor
home which then puts us into a dilemma because the current AVCON charger
needs a dryer outlet to be plugged into. Our motor home runs, usually,
off of 50 amp service at a campground and of course has standard
household current in the home. Is there any option for me to use either
the campground 50amp outlet in conjunction with my motor home plug in or
is there any option to use an outlet in the motor home although they are
all standard house current outlets? Also, would there be a way to
install an new outlet in the motor home to provide the power needed to
charge the Ranger?
Here's some of the Ford Ranger EV specifications if it helps although
I'm not an electrician and not comfortable around electricity:
On-Board Charger - Onboard 220V AC
AVCON Charger - requires 220VAC
Ranger Battery pack voltage - 312 volts (39X8V)
We don't driver our Ranger all the time, but the Ranger Owner's manual
states to have it plugged in anytime it is not being driven. We don't
want to sell our Ranger just because we are going to live in it
full-time, but we need to find some way of charging the batteries
without access to a dryer or range outlet.
I hope this makes sense and I hope you might have an idea or let me know
if one of your products would work.
Thanks,
Kevin Lefever
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So 4th gear was 47 mph @ 220 amps / 48 volts = 10560 watts = 14 hp
Does that seem accurate ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is for a 4 door Geo in 3 rd gear.... V x A = 7200 Watts ??
> Is this in the ballpark or should I be able to do much better.
>
> 1 st - 15 mph 2nd 25 mph 3rd 35 mph 4th 47 mph
>
> Will measure 4th and 5th gear amps tomorrow
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The first article states "The study estimates that a properly managed V2G
car could net the owner close to $3,000 per year."
Assuming a car holds 10 kWh of energy and is cycled twice a day from 50% to
100%, then the owner of the car would buy and sell 10 kWh of energy daily.
If this occurred 300 days a year, the owner would net $10 a day. This
implies that the DIFFERENCE between buy price and the sell price was $1 per
kWh.
Since I'm paying about $.09 a kWh for power now, are they assuming a huge
increase in the price of power?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:08 AM
Subject: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
> Does V2G, or vehicle-to-grid, satisfy needs to both
> charge & discharge from the grid? I hope this is where
> the plug-in concept is headed.
>
> http://www.greenmtn.edu/news/V2G.asp
> http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/116808-1.html
> http://www.udel.edu/V2G/
> http://www.geotimes.org/aug05/feature_pluginhybrid.html
>
http://www.sustainableballard.org/ev2g/pdf/Kempton-V2G-Designing-June05.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
> http://www.sustainableballard.org/
> http://www.acpropulsion.com/white_papers.htm
>
http://hydrogen.its.ucdavis.edu/people/bwilliams/ploneexfile.2005-05-06.7767555063/preview_popup
>
http://electrictransportsolutions.blogspot.com/2005_07_17_electrictransportsolutions_archive.html
> -brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not to mention the fact that the times when the grid would most need the
extra power are the same times I would need to have my vehicle available
for driving.
The peak power draws, at least where I live, are in the morning when
people are getting ready for work and in the evening when they return home
for work.
In the morning I need my car charged and ready to go and in the evening
the batteries are already drained.
The V2G concept seems to depend on me never driving my car.
> The first article states "The study estimates that a properly managed V2G
> car could net the owner close to $3,000 per year."
>
> Assuming a car holds 10 kWh of energy and is cycled twice a day from 50%
> to
> 100%, then the owner of the car would buy and sell 10 kWh of energy daily.
> If this occurred 300 days a year, the owner would net $10 a day. This
> implies that the DIFFERENCE between buy price and the sell price was $1
> per
> kWh.
>
> Since I'm paying about $.09 a kWh for power now, are they assuming a huge
> increase in the price of power?
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:08 AM
> Subject: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
>
>
>> Does V2G, or vehicle-to-grid, satisfy needs to both
>> charge & discharge from the grid? I hope this is where
>> the plug-in concept is headed.
>>
>> http://www.greenmtn.edu/news/V2G.asp
>> http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/116808-1.html
>> http://www.udel.edu/V2G/
>> http://www.geotimes.org/aug05/feature_pluginhybrid.html
>>
> http://www.sustainableballard.org/ev2g/pdf/Kempton-V2G-Designing-June05.pdf
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
>> http://www.sustainableballard.org/
>> http://www.acpropulsion.com/white_papers.htm
>>
> http://hydrogen.its.ucdavis.edu/people/bwilliams/ploneexfile.2005-05-06.7767555063/preview_popup
>>
> http://electrictransportsolutions.blogspot.com/2005_07_17_electrictransportsolutions_archive.html
>> -brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure does.
Average efficiency for an EV is about 75% (motor and drivetrain) so 10kw
input power equals about 10 hp at the wheels.
Since you have a 48V vehicle, your efficiency is probably a little lower
than average (due to higher currents), so yes your figures look about
right.
> So 4th gear was 47 mph @ 220 amps / 48 volts = 10560 watts = 14 hp
>
> Does that seem accurate ??
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> This is for a 4 door Geo in 3 rd gear.... V x A = 7200 Watts ??
>> Is this in the ballpark or should I be able to do much better.
>>
>> 1 st - 15 mph 2nd 25 mph 3rd 35 mph 4th 47 mph
>>
>> Will measure 4th and 5th gear amps tomorrow
>>
>
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Well, we had a fun time at the EV open day today.
There were five road-going cars, one motorcycle, and many bicycles,
scooters and buggies.
(Even a little radio controlled car - my first EV from back in 1983 :-)
Many onlookers, tyre kickers and question askers.
Louise Markus, the Federal Liberal MP from Greenway, and Lee Rhiannon,
NSW Greens MLC, turned up for a look, chat and ride.
I think everyone went away with positive EV thoughts bouncing around in
their heads...
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Fowler
> Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2006 4:55 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Sydney AEVA Field Day Sunday 26th Feb
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry about the late notice :-)
>
> The Sydney Chapter of the Australian Electric Vehicle Association has
> organised a field day.
>
> 344 Annangrove Rd, Rouse Hill NSW 2155
> (in the grounds of the Nursery Association)
>
> Sunday 26th Feb 2006
> 10am - 3pm
>
> There will be various EVs, from road registered cars to kids'
> scooters.
>
> Come and see some electric cars, and chat with some owners
> and builders.
>
> Map URL
> http://www.street-directory.com.au/sd_new/home.cgi?star=5&x=15
0.9142&y=-
33.6727&level=5
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about:
If you're cycling your pack twice as often, it lasts half as long?
How much does a second pack cost, just to cover the extra cycle per day?
I agree that in peak demand, nobody (on TOU) is paying $1, but
it certainly is not $0.09 either.
http://www.pge.com/about_us/environment/electric_vehicles/index.html
Towards the bottom, you will see summer peak at 28c/kWh.
Note that this is for "Baseline" use.
When you use more than 200% of average in summer, you are
talking about a price over 45c/kWh.
BTW - V2G is never using the entire car's battery capacity, it
only uses up to the level that you program it, so you can make
it home safely.
Typically an EV will hold some more than 10 kWh but not many will
want to sell more than that.
My truck holds 34kWh (110Ah x 312V) and I need about 4kWh for a
one-way commute, still I won't plug in at work (there is no
outlet yet) and sell 30 kWh, as I like to make it home with power
to spare.
BTW: my truck actually was commissioned to PG&E in 1995 for a
research on V2G, that's why it has a 3-phase grid connection and
can theoretically pump up to 100 Amp via the AC motor-controller
and the "Change-Over-Disconnect" (3-way switch between controller,
motor and grid) into the grid after synchronising to the grid.
It can theoretically also charge the batteries with 100A, 208V
(36kW) as the controller can handle 250A peak, but the problem
is that the batteries are not up to this charge current and in
tests they have actually had explosions in the battery box, even
though sealed batteries were used.... apparently they vented.
You notice that V2G is not new, from the vintage of my re-converted
US Electricar: '94 S-10.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Joe Smalley
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 9:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
The first article states "The study estimates that a properly managed V2G
car could net the owner close to $3,000 per year."
Assuming a car holds 10 kWh of energy and is cycled twice a day from 50% to
100%, then the owner of the car would buy and sell 10 kWh of energy daily.
If this occurred 300 days a year, the owner would net $10 a day. This
implies that the DIFFERENCE between buy price and the sell price was $1 per
kWh.
Since I'm paying about $.09 a kWh for power now, are they assuming a huge
increase in the price of power?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:08 AM
Subject: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
> Does V2G, or vehicle-to-grid, satisfy needs to both
> charge & discharge from the grid? I hope this is where
> the plug-in concept is headed.
>
> http://www.greenmtn.edu/news/V2G.asp
> http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/116808-1.html
> http://www.udel.edu/V2G/
> http://www.geotimes.org/aug05/feature_pluginhybrid.html
>
http://www.sustainableballard.org/ev2g/pdf/Kempton-V2G-Designing-June05.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
> http://www.sustainableballard.org/
> http://www.acpropulsion.com/white_papers.htm
>
http://hydrogen.its.ucdavis.edu/people/bwilliams/ploneexfile.2005-05-06.7767
555063/preview_popup
>
http://electrictransportsolutions.blogspot.com/2005_07_17_electrictransports
olutions_archive.html
> -brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
