EV Digest 5213
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Sydney AEVA Field Day Sunday 26th Feb
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) re: Information wanted - Jet Controller
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: mkII Battregs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger (was: RE: Big ...)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Sydney AEVA Field Day Sunday 26th Feb
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Revived and free batteries?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Revived and free batteries?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) David Roden - which resistor is it that burns out in the PMC controllers?
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Trip in Emergency Only
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Trip in Emergency Only
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger (was: RE: Big ...)
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Test Message
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Revived and free batteries?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Any Myford lathe owners help me out (not really EV)
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) OT: RE: Any Myford lathe owners help me out (not really EV)
by Randall Prentice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Any Myford lathe owners help me out (not really EV)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Trip in Emergency Only
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Different Ah Strings
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Revived and free batteries?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go Mark , Was this your first , ? Going to do it each year ? I'm
getting ready for my 7th Rally and am thinking of a distance competition .
My plan is 3 classes. c1 c2 c3 with will be how far one can drive ( on a
charge ) in one hour (c1) , 2 hours (c2) or 3hours ( c3 ) ,,,, . My
thoughts are a 20 mile course , along some 4 lane road way where people
could drive slow without causing traffic problems , and each driver would
try to do as many trips as possible. My rally usually starts at 11am on
Saturday . right now I'm thinking of having the distance contest before
rally . As there is usually a lot of taking people for a rides , I'm trying
to make it so people would have some charge time after the distance contest
maybe 1 hour. This would mean starting the 3c at 7am c2 at 8am and c1 at
9am so we all finish at 10am. This will be sometime in April ,but not the
week of the 15/16th.
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 2:59 AM
Subject: RE: Sydney AEVA Field Day Sunday 26th Feb
Hi all,
Well, we had a fun time at the EV open day today.
There were five road-going cars, one motorcycle, and many bicycles,
scooters and buggies.
(Even a little radio controlled car - my first EV from back in 1983 :-)
Many onlookers, tyre kickers and question askers.
Louise Markus, the Federal Liberal MP from Greenway, and Lee Rhiannon,
NSW Greens MLC, turned up for a look, chat and ride.
I think everyone went away with positive EV thoughts bouncing around in
their heads...
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Fowler
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2006 4:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Sydney AEVA Field Day Sunday 26th Feb
Hi all,
Sorry about the late notice :-)
The Sydney Chapter of the Australian Electric Vehicle Association has
organised a field day.
344 Annangrove Rd, Rouse Hill NSW 2155
(in the grounds of the Nursery Association)
Sunday 26th Feb 2006
10am - 3pm
There will be various EVs, from road registered cars to kids'
scooters.
Come and see some electric cars, and chat with some owners
and builders.
Map URL
http://www.street-directory.com.au/sd_new/home.cgi?star=5&x=15
0.9142&y=-
33.6727&level=5
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt,
The original manual has 5 pages describing the controller but no
schematic. Do you have a copy of these pages?
Jimmy
From: "Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Does anyone have information on the controllers that came with the
Jet Electrica? I would love a tech manual on this. There isn't even
an info plate on the box.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You think that's cool You aughta See the Mk3s working on my Bench!!
And Oh the Laptop recording every twictch and blink.
I need some super bright Violet LEDs... that don't cost $10 each.
Yea the Mk2B working right are a pretty nifty sight.
Thanks!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: mkII Battregs
> These battregs are the bomb! I finally got them hooked
> up. I got a bad batch of RJ connectors and was having
> a hell of a time until a bought a network cable
> tester. more than half of the cables I put together
> were no good! I finally ran out of connectors and had
> to buy a new bag. VIOLA! I haven't had a bad one
> since! I have the regs mounted on top of the batteries
> and it looks great. everthing is working perfectly and
> the light show is so delightful as the green leds
> start to blink. I got the 15 in the Triumph hooked up
> and now I will put the other 25 in the BMW. I will
> post some picks soon.
>
>
> Gadget
>
> visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One exception is possibly on a VW a Sirocco master cylinder might be used to
replace the vacuum brakes of Rabbits. I have no vacuum assit on my
Electravan and it stops well. Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
I do not think Mike is trying to sell you a pump, but just trying to
ensure that your system is safe.
Exactly. FWIW, our vacuum system costs $375. As noted, there are others
out there. Safety is NOT a place to cut corners for budget. That said, a
Metro is light enough that you might get by with manual brakes, if
properly sized, etc. Your 2-ton truck probably has air brakes.
I stand by my position that if the original manufacturer felt power brakes
were needed for the gas version, they are even more important in a heavier
converted version.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
> would the transformer from a microwave be a good
> candidate?
It's much larger than needed for a 120vac 15amp charger's inductor.
That's ok; it just takes up more room and weight. It could be used for a
higher-power version of the Bonn as well.
> Last time I tried to play with one...it was very
> difficult to wire. Is there a way to soften it up?
Yeah, getting a transformer apart that wasn't intended to come apart is
tedious. They have usually dipped in in varnish to glue everything
together to reduce humming a buzzing.
There are three basic core constructions. The simplest are simply bolted
together. Next best have some kind of metal bracket that is crimped
tightly around the core. The most difficult are welded together (mainly
used for very cheap transformers); you have to grind off the welds to
get them apart.
The laminations are coated with a thin layer of varnish. This keeps them
from rusting, and also provides electrical insulation between them.
Without this varnish, they would short circuit to each other, and act
like a solid lump of iron. This looks like a shorted turn, and greatly
lowers efficiency.
But this varnish also glues the laminations together, making them hard
to separate. Luckily, they only stick together about as well as a
post-it note. Just wedge a knife in somewhere, and they pop apart.
Getting the first lamination out is the hardest. Once started, the rest
pop apart as soon as you wedge the knife between them.
If the wire is rather loosely wound, it can be salvaged and reused. This
will only happen on cheap transformers. Good transformers will have
totally impregnated the windings with baked transformer varnish; they
are as good a epoxied together. The only reason to try to unwind them is
to count the turns, so you know the volts-per-turn of that core. Just
send the wire to the recycler.
If you're determined to get the !#$%^ thing apart, you can put it in the
oven and heat it up to a few hundred degrees F. That softens the "glue"
considerably, so you can get that blasted first lamination out.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I could get rid of the vacuum pump I'd be happy. If someone isn't a
gearhead any professional mechanic can do it. If you get rid of the vacuum
pump you simplify the system. Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
At 10:43 AM 2/25/2006, you wrote:
> I stand by my position that if the original manufacturer felt power
brakes were needed for the gas version, they are even more important in a
heavier converted version.
Actually, power brakes were created for pussys
Could we leave out the insults, please?
I spent a good share of my early years building cars that competed in SCCA
( sports car club of America). Consiquently I also built some pretty high
performance street cars. A really long story short, if you proportion the
size of the master cylinder to the brake cylinders properly there is
absolutely nothing wrong with manual brakes.
But the original post was just talking about DISABLING the power brakes.
Yeah, fine for gearheads to replace the cylinders, etc. You could do
that, I could do that, having spent several decades under the hood
professionally. But a lot of people couldn't, or wouldn't - or shouldn't
try.
My philosophy REMAINS to take advantage of the design work the
manufacturers already did for you when possible and appropriate.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think V2G depends on some people
On Feb 26, 2006, at 12:42 AM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Not to mention the fact that the times when the grid would most
need the
extra power are the same times I would need to have my vehicle
available
for driving.
The peak power draws, at least where I live, are in the morning when
people are getting ready for work and in the evening when they
return home
for work.
In the morning I need my car charged and ready to go and in the
evening
the batteries are already drained.
The V2G concept seems to depend on me never driving my car.
The first article states "The study estimates that a properly
managed V2G
car could net the owner close to $3,000 per year."
Assuming a car holds 10 kWh of energy and is cycled twice a day
from 50%
to
100%, then the owner of the car would buy and sell 10 kWh of
energy daily.
If this occurred 300 days a year, the owner would net $10 a day. This
implies that the DIFFERENCE between buy price and the sell price
was $1
per
kWh.
Since I'm paying about $.09 a kWh for power now, are they assuming
a huge
increase in the price of power?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:08 AM
Subject: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
Does V2G, or vehicle-to-grid, satisfy needs to both
charge & discharge from the grid? I hope this is where
the plug-in concept is headed.
http://www.greenmtn.edu/news/V2G.asp
http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/116808-1.html
http://www.udel.edu/V2G/
http://www.geotimes.org/aug05/feature_pluginhybrid.html
http://www.sustainableballard.org/ev2g/pdf/Kempton-V2G-Designing-
June05.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
http://www.sustainableballard.org/
http://www.acpropulsion.com/white_papers.htm
http://hydrogen.its.ucdavis.edu/people/bwilliams/ploneexfile.
2005-05-06.7767555063/preview_popup
http://electrictransportsolutions.blogspot.com/
2005_07_17_electrictransportsolutions_archive.html
-brian
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
...
The most difficult are welded together (mainly
used for very cheap transformers); you have to grind off the welds to
get them apart.
The laminations are coated with a thin layer of varnish. This keeps them
from rusting, and also provides electrical insulation between them.
Without this varnish, they would short circuit to each other, and act
like a solid lump of iron. This looks like a shorted turn, and greatly
lowers efficiency.
Welding laminations together in fact does short them electrically
at (near) the weld seam. While outcome of such a construction is
not as bad as a lump chunk of iron, it must be lowering efficiency
even worse. What surprises me even relatively large transformers
have this. Sure large transformer can be made cheaply too :-)
In my previous life I took apart countless amount of transformers
with wedging a blade between laminations. Twisting the core slightly
usually frees all of them at once (from one end). The reason doing this
was because new cores and magnet wire were not easily available.
These days very few bother since custom transformers can be easily
ordered and also people's time doing it worth far more than transformer
itself. Use to be not the case at least for me. Great educational
thing too.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Steve,
This was the first event for the new Sydney AEVA chapter.
We are still getting our act together as far as what, exactly, we do.
(Are we about the environment? Reducing foreign oil? The fun of
building? Promoting local suppliers? Lobbying the government? Just
having fun?)
We plan to hold another open day around September some time (and then
every six months or so).
Good luck with your rally.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
> Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 12:38 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Sydney AEVA Field Day Sunday 26th Feb
>
>
> Way to go Mark , Was this your first , ? Going to do it each
> year ? I'm
> getting ready for my 7th Rally and am thinking of a distance
> competition .
> My plan is 3 classes. c1 c2 c3 with will be how far one can
> drive ( on a
> charge ) in one hour (c1) , 2 hours (c2) or 3hours ( c3 ) ,,,, . My
> thoughts are a 20 mile course , along some 4 lane road way
> where people
> could drive slow without causing traffic problems , and each
> driver would
> try to do as many trips as possible. My rally usually starts
> at 11am on
> Saturday . right now I'm thinking of having the distance
> contest before
> rally . As there is usually a lot of taking people for a
> rides , I'm trying
> to make it so people would have some charge time after the
> distance contest
> maybe 1 hour. This would mean starting the 3c at 7am c2 at
> 8am and c1 at
> 9am so we all finish at 10am. This will be sometime in April
> ,but not the
> week of the 15/16th.
> Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The rumor of battery reviving in Vancouver is back. Can anyone confirm or
debunk this. Maybe someone from Vancouver.
http://www.geocities.com/battery_rescue/index.html
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The rumor of battery reviving in Vancouver is back. Can
> anyone confirm or
> debunk this. Maybe someone from Vancouver.
I don't know about Vancouver (too far south here in Portland...), but I did
just have my first taste of success reviving a dead SLA battery. This one
being a seemingly totally dead Panasonic (?) 17ah, 12v battery. It seemed
completely dead at 0v.
I connected it to a 12v charger it'd only accept about 130ma, which didn't
do much to increase its charge when left on for hours.
Then I read online that someone found success in reviving old batts by
putting in the freezer, then thawing it out and recharging.
I tried it...seemed I was getting a little more current flow, but still not
much.
And discharge rate was similarly dismal---even short circuit saw only low
hundreds of milliamps---forget driving a motor.
Then I hooked my 24v supply to it and saw a little more current. So I said,
"Aw heck, throw the works at it" and connected the 120v output of my vicor
charger (12amp max) to it...current began flowing, 1amp, then 1.5, then
eventually, 2amps and the battery was getting warm, mostly near the top. I
flipped the battery over to aide in getting the heat to rise to the rest of
the battery. Eventually, 2.5amps, 3amps and more heat.
I disconnected the power, discharged into a gear motor, which now actually
ran and didn't draw the battery down to 1v any more---more like 10v.
After awhile, I recharged again with 24v this time and saw 2, 2.5, then 3
and 3.5+ amps. The battery took a decent charge after that, and discharging
into the gearmotor saw a solid 11.3v or better with the 1.5amp or so draw.
Kinda cool since I was just gonna chuck the battery into the recycling
relegating it to being a boat anchor...
Guess this won't work with dried out Optimas, I thought I'd share this
battery revival story anyway FWIW.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
The PMC-21 is a fairly solid second generation (or maybe 1.5 generation;-)
transistor controller. I had a PMC-25, the higher voltage version.
<snip>.
The 21/25s have one weakness, the circuit which derives logic voltage from
the battery voltage. One resistor is undersized and it tends to burn out.
If this happens the controller acts like the battery is undervoltage and
won't go over 50 amps. AFAIK Curtis doesn't work on these controllers any
more, so if it fails you will probably have cut into the potting compound
and fix it yourself.
The Courier I'm re-converting from 96 volts to Zilla powered 156 volts came
with a PMC-21. The previous owner described the behavior of the
controller before he stopped driving it in terms very similar to what you
describe happens when that resistor burns out. I took the PMC off the
truck, (which needs a lot of other work before it'll be ready to go) but it's
raining now, so I took the time to open the PMC up and take a look.
There are two 5 watt, 3K ohm resisters at the edge of the circuit board which
appear to have gotten pretty hot; I can't see anything else
visually that looks suspect. Are those the resistors you're talking about? It
would be nice if I could get the Curtis back in operation to run
something.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What is so complicated? Obviously I must be missing something!
Mark, I apologize for probably not being clear enough. This wasn't about
electrically breaking the contactor, but mechanically breaking it. The
situation was:
1) Controller fails full-on
2) Contactor has welded shut
In that case, you need a way to mechanically break the circuit. Obviously,
you could just flip off the emergency disconnect, usually by hand. In the
thread I mentioned, someone had said that they were planning to hook up an
emergency disconnect to the clutch pedal. Then someone else said that it
would be nice to have it on the brake pedal, since that it the first thing
that you'll instinctively press--before you reach out by hand for the
emergency disconnect or use your other foot on the clutch.
So I was just inquiring about what some possibilities for that break-pedal
method might be.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is so complicated? Obviously I must be missing something!
Mark, I apologize for probably not being clear enough. This wasn't about
electrically breaking the contactor, but mechanically breaking it. The
situation was:
1) Controller fails full-on
2) Contactor has welded shut
Bill,
Actually I understood completely and my comment still stands. 1. Excessive
current. 2. Throttle peddle all the way up. 3. Something is wrong so open
the EMERGENCY contactor, be it a special contactor or explosives, it is
still all automatic.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyway of heating up the transformer outside?
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> mike golub wrote:
> > would the transformer from a microwave be a good
> > candidate?
>
> It's much larger than needed for a 120vac 15amp
> charger's inductor.
> That's ok; it just takes up more room and weight. It
> could be used for a
> higher-power version of the Bonn as well.
>
> > Last time I tried to play with one...it was very
> > difficult to wire. Is there a way to soften it up?
>
> Yeah, getting a transformer apart that wasn't
> intended to come apart is
> tedious. They have usually dipped in in varnish to
> glue everything
> together to reduce humming a buzzing.
>
> There are three basic core constructions. The
> simplest are simply bolted
> together. Next best have some kind of metal bracket
> that is crimped
> tightly around the core. The most difficult are
> welded together (mainly
> used for very cheap transformers); you have to grind
> off the welds to
> get them apart.
>
> The laminations are coated with a thin layer of
> varnish. This keeps them
> from rusting, and also provides electrical
> insulation between them.
> Without this varnish, they would short circuit to
> each other, and act
> like a solid lump of iron. This looks like a shorted
> turn, and greatly
> lowers efficiency.
>
> But this varnish also glues the laminations
> together, making them hard
> to separate. Luckily, they only stick together about
> as well as a
> post-it note. Just wedge a knife in somewhere, and
> they pop apart.
> Getting the first lamination out is the hardest.
> Once started, the rest
> pop apart as soon as you wedge the knife between
> them.
>
> If the wire is rather loosely wound, it can be
> salvaged and reused. This
> will only happen on cheap transformers. Good
> transformers will have
> totally impregnated the windings with baked
> transformer varnish; they
> are as good a epoxied together. The only reason to
> try to unwind them is
> to count the turns, so you know the volts-per-turn
> of that core. Just
> send the wire to the recycler.
>
> If you're determined to get the !#$%^ thing apart,
> you can put it in the
> oven and heat it up to a few hundred degrees F. That
> softens the "glue"
> considerably, so you can get that blasted first
> lamination out.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So can you just buy the "plates" that exist in the
transformer?
Who sells them?
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
> ...
> The most difficult are welded together (mainly
> > used for very cheap transformers); you have to
> grind off the welds to
> > get them apart.
> >
> > The laminations are coated with a thin layer of
> varnish. This keeps them
> > from rusting, and also provides electrical
> insulation between them.
> > Without this varnish, they would short circuit to
> each other, and act
> > like a solid lump of iron. This looks like a
> shorted turn, and greatly
> > lowers efficiency.
>
> Welding laminations together in fact does short them
> electrically
> at (near) the weld seam. While outcome of such a
> construction is
> not as bad as a lump chunk of iron, it must be
> lowering efficiency
> even worse. What surprises me even relatively large
> transformers
> have this. Sure large transformer can be made
> cheaply too :-)
>
> In my previous life I took apart countless amount of
> transformers
> with wedging a blade between laminations. Twisting
> the core slightly
> usually frees all of them at once (from one end).
> The reason doing this
> was because new cores and magnet wire were not
> easily available.
>
> These days very few bother since custom transformers
> can be easily
> ordered and also people's time doing it worth far
> more than transformer
> itself. Use to be not the case at least for me.
> Great educational
> thing too.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry folks, just a quick test. I am not sure what but I haven't
been getting anything from the EVDL since Friday, but the ListProc
shows I am setup correctly.
Just ignore this.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart recently wrote how to revive a battery by applying a
somewhat higher voltage than normally would be max.
I tried the same with some old Hawkers and indeed saw some
come back, some were (physically) damaged and only came back
to disappointing levels, often losing charge in days.
I think Lee told about connecting the battery to higher
voltage (like 15V for a 6V battery) to force some current through
the almost perfect water between the plates, to make some of
the acid return, then the resistance will drop and soon the
battery will start to charge.
The initial stage can take many hours, but just be patient and
eventually the current will start to increase.
Make sure you use a current-limited supply (like a standard
lab bench supply with I and U control) so you can dial in
for example 1A max, 15V max and just let the battery slowly
start conducting at 15V and as soon as the current hits 1A
the voltage will drop and eventually the battery will start
charging at its normal 7V level.
(These Hawkers were 12V versions, so I doubled all voltages
when I was doing this)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Myles Twete
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 12:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Revived and free batteries?
> The rumor of battery reviving in Vancouver is back. Can
> anyone confirm or
> debunk this. Maybe someone from Vancouver.
I don't know about Vancouver (too far south here in Portland...), but I did
just have my first taste of success reviving a dead SLA battery. This one
being a seemingly totally dead Panasonic (?) 17ah, 12v battery. It seemed
completely dead at 0v.
I connected it to a 12v charger it'd only accept about 130ma, which didn't
do much to increase its charge when left on for hours.
Then I read online that someone found success in reviving old batts by
putting in the freezer, then thawing it out and recharging.
I tried it...seemed I was getting a little more current flow, but still not
much.
And discharge rate was similarly dismal---even short circuit saw only low
hundreds of milliamps---forget driving a motor.
Then I hooked my 24v supply to it and saw a little more current. So I said,
"Aw heck, throw the works at it" and connected the 120v output of my vicor
charger (12amp max) to it...current began flowing, 1amp, then 1.5, then
eventually, 2amps and the battery was getting warm, mostly near the top. I
flipped the battery over to aide in getting the heat to rise to the rest of
the battery. Eventually, 2.5amps, 3amps and more heat.
I disconnected the power, discharged into a gear motor, which now actually
ran and didn't draw the battery down to 1v any more---more like 10v.
After awhile, I recharged again with 24v this time and saw 2, 2.5, then 3
and 3.5+ amps. The battery took a decent charge after that, and discharging
into the gearmotor saw a solid 11.3v or better with the 1.5amp or so draw.
Kinda cool since I was just gonna chuck the battery into the recycling
relegating it to being a boat anchor...
Guess this won't work with dried out Optimas, I thought I'd share this
battery revival story anyway FWIW.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well at last I have managed to get myself a lathe - its a bit of a crock but
it will be great for skimming comms.
I have to rebuild it as the bed is worn and I have a replacement but ....
hope of all hopes... does anyone have a myford 7 lathe on the EV list who
could help me with info on changing the headstock drive belt.
Cant seem to work out how to get the spindle out to put the belt on/off.
TIA
John
www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We used a flat belt with joiner down here (NZ), if you find a better way
I'm interested...
Have seen models with segemented V-Belts (Made up of links about 1 1/2
Inches long).
Regards
Randall Prentice
Leads to characteristic Tick,Tick,Tick noise while lathe is running... :-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Luck Home
> Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 12:16 p.m.
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Any Myford lathe owners help me out (not really EV)
>
>
> Well at last I have managed to get myself a lathe - its a bit
> of a crock but
> it will be great for skimming comms.
>
> I have to rebuild it as the bed is worn and I have a
> replacement but ....
> hope of all hopes... does anyone have a myford 7 lathe on the
> EV list who
> could help me with info on changing the headstock drive belt.
>
> Cant seem to work out how to get the spindle out to put the
> belt on/off.
>
> TIA
>
> John
> www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you don't have any luck here, visit practicalmachinist.com - a great
machinist's resource.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Luck Home
Sent: February 26, 2006 3:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Any Myford lathe owners help me out (not really EV)
Well at last I have managed to get myself a lathe - its a bit of a crock but
it will be great for skimming comms.
I have to rebuild it as the bed is worn and I have a replacement but ....
hope of all hopes... does anyone have a myford 7 lathe on the EV list who
could help me with info on changing the headstock drive belt.
Cant seem to work out how to get the spindle out to put the belt on/off.
TIA
John
www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got it. Thanks. Consider the answer successfully beaten into my think
skull. :)
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Grasser
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Trip in Emergency Only
>> What is so complicated? Obviously I must be missing something!
>
> Mark, I apologize for probably not being clear enough. This wasn't about
> electrically breaking the contactor, but mechanically breaking it. The
> situation was:
>
> 1) Controller fails full-on
> 2) Contactor has welded shut
Bill,
Actually I understood completely and my comment still stands. 1. Excessive
current. 2. Throttle peddle all the way up. 3. Something is wrong so open
the EMERGENCY contactor, be it a special contactor or explosives, it is
still all automatic.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hypothetical question here:
Suppose you have batteries of the same chemistry, but with different Ah
ratings. You have more of the ones with the smaller Ah rating. The Ah
ratings are not integer multiples of each other, so it would be hard to mix
and match (i.e., parallel individual cells), leaving you with two parallel
strings. You want to maximize range and use all the cells for a long trip.
The cells of the smaller Ah string, being less than half the Ah rating of
the larger ones, can't supply enough amps to run the vehicle at road speed
by themselves. The larger ones can supply enough amps by themselves if
necessary.
What would be a good way to hook up the two strings?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just have done this with small sealed Panasonic 6.2Ah battery -
it was about 40V on the 12V battery for a while. The current
was limited to 2A. Eventually the voltage dropped to 14.5V under
charge and the battery appeared normal.
This is known thing and works for sure to bring totally
discharged battery to life.
Note I didn't say dead battery, I said totally discharged
but otherwise undamaged one, with good plates and all insides
in good shape.
The trick 1 is to get such revived battery back to original
capacity, not just make it accept the charge by converting
water back into the acid and have some terminal voltage on it.
Trick 2 is to get about the same cycle life as if nothing happened.
I doubt anyone has data how long such battery works compared
to the "normal" one.
So, Myles, how much of original battery capacity is still there now?
Ability to run the load for some time now is sure better than
nothing, but if 17Ah battery now possess, say, solid 3Ah, is the
reward worth the effort? If you re-gain no more than 50% of capacity,
it may not; otherwise perhaps it is. Any numbers to share?
Victor
Myles Twete wrote:
I don't know about Vancouver (too far south here in Portland...), but I did
just have my first taste of success reviving a dead SLA battery. This one
being a seemingly totally dead Panasonic (?) 17ah, 12v battery. It seemed
completely dead at 0v.
I connected it to a 12v charger it'd only accept about 130ma, which didn't
do much to increase its charge when left on for hours.
Then I read online that someone found success in reviving old batts by
putting in the freezer, then thawing it out and recharging.
I tried it...seemed I was getting a little more current flow, but still not
much.
And discharge rate was similarly dismal---even short circuit saw only low
hundreds of milliamps---forget driving a motor.
Then I hooked my 24v supply to it and saw a little more current. So I said,
"Aw heck, throw the works at it" and connected the 120v output of my vicor
charger (12amp max) to it...current began flowing, 1amp, then 1.5, then
eventually, 2amps and the battery was getting warm, mostly near the top. I
flipped the battery over to aide in getting the heat to rise to the rest of
the battery. Eventually, 2.5amps, 3amps and more heat.
I disconnected the power, discharged into a gear motor, which now actually
ran and didn't draw the battery down to 1v any more---more like 10v.
After awhile, I recharged again with 24v this time and saw 2, 2.5, then 3
and 3.5+ amps. The battery took a decent charge after that, and discharging
into the gearmotor saw a solid 11.3v or better with the 1.5amp or so draw.
Kinda cool since I was just gonna chuck the battery into the recycling
relegating it to being a boat anchor...
Guess this won't work with dried out Optimas, I thought I'd share this
battery revival story anyway FWIW.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps, have not had any need for them to investigate further.
Since manufacturers make transformers, they must make/buy loose
plates first. Ask them if you can get any.
Victor
mike golub wrote:
So can you just buy the "plates" that exist in the
transformer?
Who sells them?
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
...
The most difficult are welded together (mainly
used for very cheap transformers); you have to
grind off the welds to
get them apart.
The laminations are coated with a thin layer of
varnish. This keeps them
from rusting, and also provides electrical
insulation between them.
Without this varnish, they would short circuit to
each other, and act
like a solid lump of iron. This looks like a
shorted turn, and greatly
lowers efficiency.
Welding laminations together in fact does short them
electrically
at (near) the weld seam. While outcome of such a
construction is
not as bad as a lump chunk of iron, it must be
lowering efficiency
even worse. What surprises me even relatively large
transformers
have this. Sure large transformer can be made
cheaply too :-)
In my previous life I took apart countless amount of
transformers
with wedging a blade between laminations. Twisting
the core slightly
usually frees all of them at once (from one end).
The reason doing this
was because new cores and magnet wire were not
easily available.
These days very few bother since custom transformers
can be easily
ordered and also people's time doing it worth far
more than transformer
itself. Use to be not the case at least for me.
Great educational
thing too.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:38:01 -0800, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Lee Hart wrote:
>...
>The most difficult are welded together (mainly
>> used for very cheap transformers); you have to grind off the welds to
>> get them apart.
>>
>> The laminations are coated with a thin layer of varnish. This keeps them
>> from rusting, and also provides electrical insulation between them.
>> Without this varnish, they would short circuit to each other, and act
>> like a solid lump of iron. This looks like a shorted turn, and greatly
>> lowers efficiency.
>
>Welding laminations together in fact does short them electrically
>at (near) the weld seam. While outcome of such a construction is
>not as bad as a lump chunk of iron, it must be lowering efficiency
>even worse. What surprises me even relatively large transformers
>have this. Sure large transformer can be made cheaply too :-)
Actually welding the laminations has little to no effect on the
transformer. The resistance of the weld is quite high relative to the
available voltage to drive the eddy current.
If you don't want to believe me, a simple experiment will demonstrate
this. Measure the true power consumed in magnetizing a welded
transformer. Then grind out the weld and measure again. Essentially
no change.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
