EV Digest 5219

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Dragtimes Vote
        by Aaron NMLUG-EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Charging outlet - what is common?
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Revived and free batteries?
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: dc converter disconnect
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Dragtimes Vote
        by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: ownerless car?
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: dc converter disconnect
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Revived and free batteries?
        by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: dc converter disconnect
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: E-Meter confusion
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: ownerless car?
        by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Chargers - noise level (was:  Brusa NLG 412B)
        by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: dc converter disconnect
        by Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Dragtimes Vote
        by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: Mk3s expense/benifits
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Electrathon controller selection
        by "Tom Eberhard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: E-Meter confusion
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: It's the energy density problem
        by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Rudman Reg question
        by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) signoff ev
        by "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: dc converter disconnect
        by "David  McWethy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 19:01, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> The Audi on drag times has finally got a comment but I am much too polite to 
> print it here :-) For those who are interested here is the direct URL 
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-S4-Timeslip-6528.html
> 
> Roderick Wilde

Perhaps true...  but I think its a good idea to let
a gasser win... at least for Feb.
I'm not voting right now.

I may start voting for the Maniac Mazda in March.
What are the odds of getting it out of storage?!??

-- 
Aaron Birenboim         \    I have an inferiority complex,
Albuquerque, NM, USA     \       but its not a very good one.
aaron at birenboim.com    \
http://aaron.birenboim.com \

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The type of power receptacle I am using is a 50 amp 4 wire 125/250 volt 
rated.  It is a heavy duty Arrow Hart type that has large box set screw lugs 
for stranded No. 6 awg copper wires that consist of two line wires, a 
neutral and a ground connection.

The matting plug is also a heavy duty Arrow Hart 90 degree 4-wire type with 
set screw box lugs.

The power cord is a No 6 gage copper silver coated very fine wires, (its not 
the 19 stranded type this is common) but has very fine wires like welding 
wire has.

The receptacle and connector at the EV is a water tight inline connector 
where the female connector has a overlapping shell that covers the 
receptacle  This is a very heavy duty 50 amp rated Daniel Woodhead 
industrial all nylon type that also has large box set screw for the very 
fine no. 6 awg copper wire.

The wire connections to the connector lugs are straight in.  I perform a 
straight out pull test on this cable from the plug.  At over 100 ft lbs, the 
connector will not disconnected from the receptacle, but the small stranded 
wires when pull become smaller in diameter and just pull right out of the 
plug with out any damage.  I did this about 4 times when I forgot to unplug 
the EV.  Someday I have to add another power pole to the size 2 3-pole AC 
contactor so it will lockout the 12 volt control circuit to the controller.

The receptacle is in close in a large Power Anderson cast aluminum housing 
that is used for the large 200 amp 6 wire 480 vac receptacles  A water tight 
flip cover with gasket is attach to the same door as the existing gasoline 
excise door.  Everytime I open up this door the housing cover opens up too.

This Power Anderson receptacle enclosure which is like a 4 inch diameter 
aluminum pipe with a flip cover on one end and a bolt on flange at the other 
end, is design to bolt up to a enclosure.  I install a 1/4 thick blank plate 
at that end with a 1-1/2 hole which the 1-1/2 threaded end of the receptacle 
is inserted into and the cable nut is than tighten down holding the inline 
receptacle and the cable that goes through the bottom of the sheet metal of 
the car.

In this sheet metal entry, a 1-1/2 conduit knock hole was install and a 
water tight 90 degree box connector is install at this point.

A 1-1/2 inch conduit coupling is screw on to the 90 degree box connector on 
the other side of the sheet metal.  This coupling goes up through the bottom 
of a fiber glass equipment enclosure to the bottom of a Hoffman Enclosure 
chassis plate.  A conduit chase nipple is install securing the coupling to 
the chassis plate.

The wires than go to a chassis mounted Square D 2-pole 250VAC 60 amp circuit 
breaker. The power circuit from this circuit breaker goes to a Size 2 3-pole 
AC contactor that is energized every time the plug is inserted into the EV. 
The circuit from the contactor goes to the a power terminal block which 
connects to the input power to a PFC-50B charger.

I still have to add a power pole to this AC contactor, connect up the 12 
volt ignition control to it, so If I forgot to unplug the EV it will not 
allow any ignition control power.

I also have to design a ground fault circuit, so that anyone that is 
standing bare footed on the ground and touching any one of the battery 
terminals while the batteries is charging, it will trip a small plug in 
industrial glass low voltage relay, that will shut down the 120 vac coil of 
the input power magnetic contactor which will drop off the AC input.

My battery boxes, charger enclosure and equipment enclosure is heavy 1/4 
inch thick epoxy coated fiberglass.  The only item that is AC ground is the 
battery charger case it self.  The entire chassis of the EV is isolated from 
the AC ground.  So when I charge the batteries, I get 0 volts between any 
batteries and the chassis of the vehicle.

Also, there are two large 600 amp 600 volt DC Cableform contactors that 
isolated the batteries and charger voltage from the controller circuits and 
accessory DC-DC, heaters and accessory drive motors, which is off when the 
ignition is off.

There is a 100 amp DC contactor that isolates the battery charger from the 
batteries when shut down.  I found that if the charger is connected up to 
the batteries and the AC power is off, and you lift up any one battery 
connector, I will get a spark cause by the capacitor circuits in the 
charger, even after 24 hours of used.  This could become very dangerous if 
there is some battery fumes.

So, you really have a bomb if you do not install the AC and DC power 
circuits correctly.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:40 PM
Subject: Charging outlet - what is common?


> What type of charging outlet do you have or is most used
> and where to get it best?
> I consider an indoor and one outdoor outlet, most likely a 30A
> 240V type.
> Is a dryer type outlet common?
> Which type or where to get a waterproof version for outdoor?
>
> How are experiences between this outlet and an AVCON?
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water    IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel:   +1 408 542 5225     VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax:   +1 408 731 3675     eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:34 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: First week's impression of my conversion.
>
>
> Hello Jeff,
>
> I also plug my EV in the back, but I have a receptacle on the wall at the
> back of the garage, plus one just outside on the wall of the garage and
> another one on a power post at the end of the driveway.  They are all on 
> the
>
> same 50 amp circuit breaker using three 125/250 50 amp 4 wire receptacles.
>
> If you just have one receptacle in the front, just go down to Home Depot 
> and
>
> purchase the surface mounted wireway made by Wiremold.  You remove the 
> power
>
> receptacle up to 50 amp type and install a Wiremold extension box over the
> existing outlet box.  This allows you to run a Wiremold raceway on the
> surface to the back of the parking area or garage.  Install a large 
> surface
> box for your power receptacle.
>
> If its not a enclose garage, but a cover parking space, then you can 
> install
>
> a cast aluminum extension box over the existing outlet junction box and 
> run
> conduit with watertight box connectors to a surface mounted cast aluminum
> receptacle box.  You can also gets these at Home Depot made by the Bell
> Electrical company.
>
> You can have as many 30 to 50 amps power receptacles on the circuit as 
> long
> as you have just one circuit breaker size for that receptacle and wire or
> just blank off the front receptacle with a blank plate and reused the
> receptacle in the back if it's a 30 to 50 amp type.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:50 PM
> Subject: First week's impression of my conversion.
>
>
> > Well, I have driven to work and errands mostly with my converted 300zx,
> > about 101 miles so far.
> > There is so much that still needs to be done, but it has been fun.
> >
> > but, observations
> > My EV mileage sucks: I am using mapquest to determine miles since
> > odometer is broken and I have put the emeter on kWh so I can say that I
> > am getting 425wh/mile. ack, cough.  Although it seems to coast and
> > coast, that is way high and ther must be something dragging.
> >
> > Wireing an EV for having the plug in back wasn't very bright. I had
> > planned to put a cord real thru the old filler location, but, honestly,
> > how many times do I back into the parking stall? Having it in back means
> > running wire from front of car to charger in back, then an extension
> > cord past the front of car bac to plug in front, doh!.
> >
> > a Link1000 works, but a link 10 is way better for 3 reasons. It has a
> > way of scaleing so the decimal looks right, it can go to 1000amps with a
> > 1000amp 100mv shunt and display correctly and it has rs232.
> >
> > Not having an alternator, or a dc-dc and keeping the aux battery charged
> > is a pain. Plus the aux battery is also an AGM and that means it needs a
> > bloody regulator or a chair next to the car so I can watch the 
> > voltmeter.
> >
> > 5 times I have thought I was chargeing and I wasn't
> > 2 popped breakers.
> > 1 plug in and walk away, but switch is off  (duh, leaves handprint on
> > forehead)
> > 1 plug in without checking current controll knob, Have to manually turn
> > charger down near end of charge until I upgrade the charger. Gotta
> > remember to crank it back up!
> > And today, when a reg got wet and told the charge to go into equalize
> > mode.    let me see .1 amp * 300V is 30watts, i need 3,400 to get home,
> > that is 113 hours! Unplugged communication and started chargeing at 5.5
> > amps and went into shop. Realized that that means reg is in eq mode and
> > charger isn't and ran back to pull the regs fuse, Yes the heat sink was
> > hot!
> >
> > The wetherman is 1/2 wrong.
> > I didn't waterproof under the hood and water dripped onto a regulator
> > and "damaged" it. I didn't want the pack to sit too long before it got a
> > proper charge and kind of rushed the regulator installation. I need to
> > ask the list for some ideas on how to achieve waterproof EV. It is
> > raining today and my drive home had me worrying.  I have EXIDE Orbitals
> > and have been looking thru album but havent found an example of orbitals
> > under the hood with reg's.
> >    When I plug in an external load, does it do all the bypassing? If
> > this is the case, I could put them in an enclosure and put the loads
> > external. I look at the circuit and it doesn't seem like that is
> > possible, the thermister is under the on-board heatsink looks like it is
> > still the basis of control.
> >
> > options are
> >
> > remote mount all the regs in a drip-proof box and put a fan and a filter
> > on it
> >
> > remove batteries and make a box, then fan, and filter. with regs on top
> > of each battery.
> >
> > totally seal off engine compartment and have one big fan and filter to
> > cool motor and regs. Make it like a trunk.
> >
> > make a top box, a thin box with holes in the bottom for the posts. al
> > the cables and regs are in this and a fan keeps them from getting too 
> > hot.
> >
> > what am I missing?
> >
> >
>
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The last time I dispose these type of batteries was about 4 years ago.  The 
battery company with there special design battery truck picks up the old 
batteries and drops off the new ones.  The first battery set was cobalt 
type, the next was cadmium type. You can get industrial batteries with these 
type of compounds already in it that is install into the positive plates 
while they are manufacture.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: Revived and free batteries?


> On 27 Feb 2006 at 16:00, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > Cadmium Sulfate
>
> Just a reminder that you're working with a hazardous material here.  Take
> appropriate precautions to protect yourself and your work area.
>
> I wonder if doping your battery with cadmium might not create a disposal
> problem when they're finally ganz kaputt.  If I were contemplating this, I
> think I'd first contact a battery recycler to make sure they can cope with
> cadmium contaminated lead batteries.  Beause of the cadmium and lead, you
> can't just landfill them, of course.  It wouldn't be much fun storing a
> garage full of batteries because you couldn't find a reputable waste
> disposal firm to take them off your hands.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One problem when connecting a DCDC downstream side of the main contactor, is 
that you could lose all your data in your E-meter if it power off a isolated 
circuit from the dcdc.  I used a Link-10 12 volt isolation circuit in a 0 - 
499V pre-scaler that comes off my 12 vdc battery.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: dc converter disconnect


> Maybe you don't need a relay.  The dcdc can be connected on the downstream
> side of the main contactor.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tim Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 1:48 PM
> Subject: dc converter disconnect
>
>
> >I am putting a new dcdc converter in my EV, but need to add a relay to 
> >shut
> >it off
> > when the key is off since it has high 65mA off drain current.
> >
> > I am thinking of using a Crydon solid state relay that is rated for
> > 100-200VDC
> > at 7A, but it is a bit expensive - $50.
> >
> > Can anyone reccomend a cheaper sealed mechanical relay for this same 
> > job?
> >
> > Also, anyone have a suggestion for an inline fuse or fuse holder?
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
> >
>
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Concerning your question about the Maniac Mazda. I do plan to have it updated and running this year. I am not sure if I will race it in this country or not but it will be racing.

Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron NMLUG-EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: Dragtimes Vote


On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 19:01, Roderick Wilde wrote:
The Audi on drag times has finally got a comment but I am much too polite to
print it here :-) For those who are interested here is the direct URL
http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-S4-Timeslip-6528.html

Roderick Wilde

Perhaps true...  but I think its a good idea to let
a gasser win... at least for Feb.
I'm not voting right now.

I may start voting for the Maniac Mazda in March.
What are the odds of getting it out of storage?!??

--
Aaron Birenboim         \    I have an inferiority complex,
Albuquerque, NM, USA     \       but its not a very good one.
aaron at birenboim.com    \
http://aaron.birenboim.com \




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has had
> an experience having a car with no title.

There are many reasons why a vehicle may need a new title. It might be
newly manufactured, or rebuilt after an accident, or substantially
modified. So, there is always a proceedure for retitling a car, though
every state does it differently.

The state's main concern is to prevent stolen cars from being easily
re-titled. In the states where I have lived, this means you submit the
serial numbers of the engine, transmission, body, and other major parts,
so they can check their database to see if these parts have ever been
part of a car that was stolen.

There are lots of reasons why a car's manufacturer might never have
issued a title. The car may have been a prototype, used for internal
testing and so not sold. It could have been used for racing, or as a
show car, where it gets sold but doesn't have all the equipment required
to register and license. All that's fine -- that doesn't prevent YOU
from being the "manufacturer" and titling it yourself. But when you do,
YOU are taking responsibility for it being safe and meeting the various
requirements.

The other "gotcha" is that the manufacturer may have required some
contract to be signed when you bought it. Its provisions are just
between buyer and seller. If you agreed that it would never be titled,
registered, or licensed; then you have to comply with that or the
contract is void and they can demand it back.

Of course, big corporations are very unlikely to notice what someone
actually does with the car. If one keeps a low profile (not racing it
against the factory team, or showing it at the same car shows), they
will never find out what actually happened to that car. It would not
surprise me in the least if there are still some GM EV1's squirrelled
away in someone's garage that GM "lost" in their paperwork. They'll show
up someday, when GM has gone bankrupt or is off in some other tangent.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Wong wrote:
> I am putting a new DC/DC converter in my EV, but need to add a relay
> to shut it off when the key is off since it has high 65mA off drain
> current.

Did you consider connecting it across the controller's input? That way
the DC/DC switching on/off at the same time as the controller, with the
existing main contactor and precharger.

> I am thinking of using a Crydom solid state relay that is rated for
> 100-200VDC at 7A, but it is a bit expensive - $50.

They are good parts, but yes, they are expensive. Sometimes you can find
them on the surplus market for much less. Note that 90% of the solid
state relays are *AC ONLY*. Read the specifications very carefully to be
sure it will switch DC, especially with surplus.

> Can anyone recommend a cheaper sealed mechanical relay for this
> same job?

There are many choices here as well. You didn't say what voltage and
current you are switching, so it's hard to recommend a specific part.
The Potter & Brumfield / Siemens / Tyco KUEP and PRD-10 series is
commonly used, but there are others.

> Also, anyone have a suggestion for an inline fuse or fuse holder?

The fuse needs to be DC rated. The 1.25" x 0.25" diameter cylindrical
ceramic-bodied fuses are a good choice; common and inexpensive (Bussman
ABC or Littelfuse 3AB series).

Once you have picked a fuse, then look for the fuseholder. Note that
there are a lot of *really* crappy fuseholders out there! A fuse is a
resistor, and depends on the fuseholder for its heatsinking and to
contain it when it blows. A poor fuseholder makes a bad connection,
which makes the fuse blow at the wrong current. And, they can melt or
burn or throw flaming bits of debris when the fuse blows.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since cadmium is a common hardening alloy constituent for battery
plates, the answer is pretty clear.

I'm having a hard time reconciling the chemistry involved with any
sort of effectiveness.  Absent a catalyst, lead should not replace
cadmium in solution.  Maybe some cadmium will plate out on the plates
and provide the temporary illusion of repair by forming a cadmium/lead
primary cell.   That's what that fraudulent VX-7 battery dope that was
peddled for decades did.

I suggest sticking with the tried and true EDTA treatment.  EDTA will
continue reviving a sulfated battery until the battery loses
sufficient active material to no longer be effective.

EDTA should NOT be added to an "OK" battery, as it will chelate the
"good" sulfate that forms as a part of the normal discharge process.
Without this good sulfate, the battery cannot be subsequently
recharged, at least not properly.

John

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:55:22 -0500, "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>On 27 Feb 2006 at 16:00, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
>> Cadmium Sulfate
>
>Just a reminder that you're working with a hazardous material here.  Take 
>appropriate precautions to protect yourself and your work area.
>
>I wonder if doping your battery with cadmium might not create a disposal 
>problem when they're finally ganz kaputt.  If I were contemplating this, I 
>think I'd first contact a battery recycler to make sure they can cope with 
>cadmium contaminated lead batteries.  Beause of the cadmium and lead, you 
>can't just landfill them, of course.  It wouldn't be much fun storing a 
>garage full of batteries because you couldn't find a reputable waste 
>disposal firm to take them off your hands.
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EV List Assistant Administrator
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
>or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
>Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  
>To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> Why not use a MOSFET and small relay to turn the MOSFET on or off?

A DC/DC draws a low current, so it isn't hard to just use the relay
itself to switch it.

> Have the MOSFET on the negative end, a 10v zener for gate to source
> to keep gate voltage form going to hi and a 1 meg resistor form DC
> to DC input + to relay (could even us opto coupler here)

You're essentially building a solid state relay. That's fine, too; but
you'd be surprised how many parts you'll have by the time you get a
working, reliable design. In part, that's why solid state relays are
expensive -- they include all the extra parts to make it reliable and
safe.
 
> What are people doing for dc to dc's for over 300v cars?

Around 300v, there are lots of switching power supplies that were
intended for 120vac or 240vac that can be used.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> Michela, Rich makes a good point that the kWh display is "real",
> however, on discharge the Ah value is also "real". On charge, the Ah
> value is modified by the charge efficiency factor (CEF) value. For
> instance, if you have a charge efficiency of 90% (CEF=0.90), then
> on recharge every Ah put into the battery only registers as 0.9Ah
> on the Ah display.
> 
> The Peukert value affects the SOC bargraph, and may affect the time
> remaining estimate, but does not affect the Ah (or kWh) values.

A good summary, Roger. One other note; the Ah count will reset to zero
when the "charged parameters" are met. This will put a glitch in your
data; if you are logging the Ah as the battery charges, it might like
like this:

Start:  0ah
Drive:  -10ah
        -20ah
        -30ah
        -40ah
Park:   -50ah
        -50ah
        -50ah
Charge: -41ah   CEF set to 90%; it only counts up 9ah for each 10ah
        -32ah
        -23ah
        -14ah
        -5ah    so we have actually put in 50ah here, not the 45ah shown
        +4ah    at 60ah, the battery actually reaches "full" 
        0ah     so the charged parameters are met (high enough voltage,
                        low enough current, for long enough), so the
                        E-meter resets the Ah counter to 0
        +9ah    keeps counting up if you keep charging
Park:   0ah     when you stop charging, the E-meter resets the Ah counter
                        again to zero

This apparently odd behaviour is the E-meter's way to get rid of the
cumulative errors that would result from putting in slightly more
amphours on every charge cycle than you took out. If it interferes
during testing, you can defeat it by setting the CEF to 99% and the
charged parameters to something that will never be met -- then the
E-meter will never reset the Ah counter and your Ah on charge will be
99% of the Ah on discharge.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
The state's main concern is to prevent stolen cars from being easily
re-titled. In the states where I have lived, this means you submit the
serial numbers of the engine, transmission, body, and other major parts,
so they can check their database to see if these parts have ever been
part of a car that was stolen.
FWIW, this is pretty much the procedure in California, as well. You'll have to have receipts for the major components (engine, tranny, etc) of a "custom built" vehicle. From what I've heard (mostly from the custom chopper guys), this is pretty painless if you have your ducks in a row. California has a lot of custom vehicles, so it might be a bit easier than other states.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- A previous s10 conversion with first a Zivan and then a PFC-20 under the hood was audible but not objectionable (to my tastes at least). As in I'd often have to put my ear right near the fender to hear if it was running if there was any competing noise from street traffic.

The Brusa charger in the trunk of the Solectria Force sedan is even quieter... nice!

For comparison, the pedestal/wall-mount Magne chargers downright roar with the fan noise. Between the Mange charger fan and all the fans & cooling equipment running in the truck, my factory S-10ev is obnoxiously noisy when charging.

Oh, and as Lawrence mentioned, the off-board Lester's suffer not from fan noise but from a loud and distinct 60 Hz hum.



Osmo S. wrote:
As I am working with my first ev conversion, I´d like to know how noisy air cooled chargers are generally, and these Brusa chargers particularly? I´d like my ev to be silent in my home yard as well as on the road... Anyone feel charger sound is a problem?

Thanks, Osmo








--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks everyone, for all the suggestions!

My converter input voltage is nom 108V, and my converter draws about 7A max.

For the fuse, the 3AB is 125VDC, and my car is just about the same, at certain 
times durring regen.  Any suggestion on another fuse?  It would be something 
like 12A at 130VDC, I think.  
Also, should it be slow blow or fast blow?

If anyone has a specific suggestion on fuse holders, I would be really 
grateful.  I am looking at the 
bussman HFA type.
http://www.bussmann.com/products/FuseBlocks-Holders/Group9.asp

I would have used the main contactor, but my car was made from scratch by a 
company called 
Soleq - everything is sealed up and I didn't want to mess with it.

Thanks again

Tim

-----Original Message-----
>From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Feb 28, 2006 8:48 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: dc converter disconnect
>
>Tim Wong wrote:
>> I am putting a new DC/DC converter in my EV, but need to add a relay
>> to shut it off when the key is off since it has high 65mA off drain
>> current.
>
>Did you consider connecting it across the controller's input? That way
>the DC/DC switching on/off at the same time as the controller, with the
>existing main contactor and precharger.
>
>> I am thinking of using a Crydom solid state relay that is rated for
>> 100-200VDC at 7A, but it is a bit expensive - $50.
>
>They are good parts, but yes, they are expensive. Sometimes you can find
>them on the surplus market for much less. Note that 90% of the solid
>state relays are *AC ONLY*. Read the specifications very carefully to be
>sure it will switch DC, especially with surplus.
>
>> Can anyone recommend a cheaper sealed mechanical relay for this
>> same job?
>
>There are many choices here as well. You didn't say what voltage and
>current you are switching, so it's hard to recommend a specific part.
>The Potter & Brumfield / Siemens / Tyco KUEP and PRD-10 series is
>commonly used, but there are others.
>
>> Also, anyone have a suggestion for an inline fuse or fuse holder?
>
>The fuse needs to be DC rated. The 1.25" x 0.25" diameter cylindrical
>ceramic-bodied fuses are a good choice; common and inexpensive (Bussman
>ABC or Littelfuse 3AB series).
>
>Once you have picked a fuse, then look for the fuseholder. Note that
>there are a lot of *really* crappy fuseholders out there! A fuse is a
>resistor, and depends on the fuseholder for its heatsinking and to
>contain it when it blows. A poor fuseholder makes a bad connection,
>which makes the fuse blow at the wrong current. And, they can melt or
>burn or throw flaming bits of debris when the fuse blows.
>--
>Ring the bells that still can ring
>Forget the perfect offering
>There is a crack in everything
>That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
>--
>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
this car has now 2 comments ;^)

cordialement,
Philippe

Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
 http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Dragtimes Vote


> Concerning your question about the Maniac Mazda. I do plan to have it
> updated and running this year. I am not sure if I will race it in this
> country or not but it will be racing.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Aaron NMLUG-EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Dragtimes Vote
>
>
> > On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 19:01, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> >> The Audi on drag times has finally got a comment but I am much too
polite
> >> to
> >> print it here :-) For those who are interested here is the direct URL
> >> http://www.dragtimes.com/Audi-S4-Timeslip-6528.html
> >>
> >> Roderick Wilde
> >
> > Perhaps true...  but I think its a good idea to let
> > a gasser win... at least for Feb.
> > I'm not voting right now.
> >
> > I may start voting for the Maniac Mazda in March.
> > What are the odds of getting it out of storage?!??
> >
> > -- 
> > Aaron Birenboim         \    I have an inferiority complex,
> > Albuquerque, NM, USA     \       but its not a very good one.
> > aaron at birenboim.com    \
> > http://aaron.birenboim.com \
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 2/28/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 2/28/2006
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>     This looks like what I need to do Cal an quality control 
> on My Reg production line. And could be used for some major 
> upgrading to my Charger power bench.

I think you'll find it indispensible once you try one out.  You ought to
be able to rent one locally to see if you like it before you buy.  

> Lets see you get it into a a battery rack...ina REAL EV... 
> Got ya there!!!

Maybe you do, maybe you don't... ;^>  Getting a 34970A into an EV
wouldn't be too bad at all, its only got a footprint of about the size
of a sheet of letter paper (8.5"x11") and stands about 3-4" tall.  It
can to data acquisition on its own, including firing any of its 4 alarm
outputs in standalone mode, but you'd need a PC of some sort connected
if you wanted it to do any real reg functions.  No argument that your
regs are a much easier, cleaner solution!

As it happens, I recently found a screaming deal on an HP3497, the
rackmount predecessor of the 34970A and bought it for my home lab/EV
use.  I don't see getting that into my EV permanently, but will likely
have it on a cart in the garage so it can do data acquisition during
charge and perhaps even some basic regulation duties.

Cheers,

Roger.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,

this is my first post. I'm building an electrathon, a kind of
electric go-kart used in 1 hour endurance races. I have an
Etek motor, and now I'm selecting a controller. I want regen,
and 48V. I've narrowed it down to a few:

1. Navitas TPM400-48 (http://www.navitastechnologies.com/tpm400.html)
2. Sevcon MillipaK 4Q (
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=268&product_id=2116)
3. 4QD PRO-150 (http://www.4qd.co.uk/prod/Prog150/index.html)
4. Alltrax AXE 4844 (
http://www.golfcarcatalog.com/catalog/index.cfm?fuseaction=product&id=3541)
5. Curtis 1227-41XX (
http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cProducts.dspProductCategory&catID=10
)

The alltrax doesn't have regen, but a lot of other teams use it.

If anyone has any data, opinion, experience regarding efficiency, how
hot they get, ruggedness, warranty, etc.. please post. :)

Thanks,
Tom.
http://www.kamoyatic.com/Electrathon
http://www.TomEberhard.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> A good summary, Roger. One other note; the Ah count will 
> reset to zero when the "charged parameters" are met. This 
> will put a glitch in your data;

Right; I forgot about this detail.

One other gotcha is that the E-Meter ignores currents of about 0.1A or
less; it will indicate them on the amps display, but will not update the
Ah count (when used with a stock 500A/50mV shunt).

> if you are logging the Ah as 
> the battery charges, it might like like this:

>       +9ah    keeps counting up if you keep charging
> Park: 0ah     when you stop charging, the E-meter resets the 
>                 Ah counter again to zero

Actually, the E-Meter resets the Ah count to 0Ah only after there is a
discharge current in excess of some nominal amount (a few amps I think,
but I don't recall the actual value offhand); it will not reset to 0Ah
when the charge current stops, as this example might seem to imply.

> This apparently odd behaviour is the E-meter's way to get rid 
> of the cumulative errors that would result from putting in 
> slightly more amphours on every charge cycle than you took 
> out. If it interferes during testing, you can defeat it by 
> setting the CEF to 99% and the charged parameters to 
> something that will never be met -- then the E-meter will 
> never reset the Ah counter and your Ah on charge will be 99% 
> of the Ah on discharge.

For testing, I find it easiest simply to use the logged amps, volts, and
temperature data and compute the Ah myself.  During testing, the
discharge and charge currents change slowly enough that accurate Ah
measurements are possible even with the E-Meter's 1 second reporting
intervals.

When I test with an actual drive cycle followed by a charge cycle, I use
the E-Meter's accurately logged Ah value for the discharge portion and
compute the charge Ah based on the accurately logged current values.

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Andre, I think David meant that gasoline is not a "container",
you cannot store in it desired amount of joules as you can with batteries.

Example: I have excessive fixed amount of energy on my back yard.
Say, 1 ton chunk of metal hanging on 10 meters height.

I want to store it away.

Batteries: I connect pulley to that chunk and have it run
a generator while it lowers so store resulting energy in
the battery-container.

Explain to me how can I store that form (or *any* form for
that matter) of energy in gasoline.
You can't convert another energy form (easily) to gasoline, but gasoline does indeed store energy. Creating simpler hydrocarbons (methane) is relatively simple.


Gasoline isn't "rechargeable", it can only release energy
it possess as refined, never store it from outside sources
as battery can.
I think what you're saying is that it isn't easily possible to reverse the combustion of gasoline, being a complex hydrocarbon. Obviously, gasoline _can_ be created, but not easily by people. =)

Victor


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I understand it, the Rudman Regs initiate bypass at 13.8v.
This is at the high end of a typical Hawker float charge voltage (13.5-13.8)
and well below the low end of the fast charge target (14.7-15.0v).

So how are these regs supposed to be good for racing applications where
maximum high rate and capacity in recharge is the goal?

Thanks.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

<<attachment: winmail.dat>>


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
signoff ev

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not use a mos fet and small relay to turn the mos fet on or off. Have the Mos fet on the negative end , a 10v zener for gate to source to keep gate voltage form going to hi and a 1 meg resistor form dc to dc input + to relay ( could even us opto coupler here) from other point of relay to fet gate. you could even put a cap in parallel with zener to give a slow start up ( save the caps in your dc to dc converter) .

Steve - I don't question that all of this is good advice. What is it in English? Just when I think I start to know the language you guys come up with a "zener". I still don't know what a "mos fet" is , tho the term is now familiar.

I should have paid attention to this stuff 20 years ago!

Dave
--- End Message ---

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