EV Digest 5221
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Electric Vehicle Fare Hiked in Kathmandu)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Electric vehicles rev up to hit Indian roads)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line (blurb added)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Off-the-shelf multiple battery voltage display sought
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Need Idiot's Guidance to PFC20 & Wet Cell Batteries
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) just bought batterys
by Matt Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Off-the-shelf multiple battery voltage display sought
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Need Idiot's Guidance to PFC20 & Wet Cell Batteries
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: First week's impression of my conversion.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-Meter confusion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Off-the-shelf multiple battery voltage display sought
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: dc converter disconnect
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) disc brake drag
by Gordon G Schaeffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: dc converter disconnect
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Electrathon controller selection
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: New feature...EVs spotlighted at dragtimes.com
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Charging outlet - what is common?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Off-the-shelf multiple battery voltage display sought
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
by Brian Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: disc brake drag
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Electric Vehicle Fare Hiked in Kathmandu)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullstory.asp?filename=6a4Ra8wa.9amal&folder=aHaoamW&Name=Home&dtSiteDate=20060227&Name=Home&dtSiteDate=20060227
Electric Vehicle Fare Hiked Tika R Pradhan Kathmandu, February 27
The Clean Locomotive Entrepreneurs Association of Nepal (CLEAN)
today decided to increase the fares of all the electric vehicles
plying throughout the capital in between Rs 1 and Rs 2 to be
effective from today.
We are forced to increase the fare because of the increase in the
price of battery and other parts of the EVs by as much as 40 per
cent, said Umesh Raj Shrestha, president of CLEAN told The
Himalayan Times.
However, the rates of the EVs are still far less than the rates
being charged by the vehicles run by fuel.
Shrestha said the EVs were providing transportation services in
all its 18 routes at different parts of the Valley in minimum
charges since its establishment. However with the inflation in
all the commodities after the price hike in the petroleum
products we could not keep the fares in which there was no change
for three years, he added.
The CLEAN has also requested all the people to help promote the
clean EVs, which are the ultimate future of the nation.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Electric vehicles rev up to hit Indian roads)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=118732
Electric vehicles rev up
Non-polluting vehicles set to hit Indian roads
KIRAN YADAV
Posted online: Sunday, February 26, 2006 at 0000 hours IST
There are various dimensions of corporate social responsibility
(CSR). Ultra Motor Company (UMC), with a commitment to
sustainable development, tries to meet the needs of the present
generation without compromising the needs of the future
generations. The company has not only acknowledged the threat of
increasing environmental pollution and depleting fuel resources,
but has also tried to address it through technological
innovations.
UMC delivers electric vehicle (EV) technologies, designs and
services. Lord Sainsbury of Turville, British parliamentary
under-secretary of state for science and innovation, says, UK
government has initiated low-carbon vehicle partnership for
clean transport technologies.
Environment-friendly legislation in India must also be enabled.
A tie-up with an NGO to provide micro-credit for financing
E-bikes for rural women is in place. Every month over 16 lakh
two-wheelers are sold in India. India will soon experience a
revolution in the local EV industry because they are 90% cheaper
to run and 40% cheaper to buy. We have tied up with Hero to
launch E-bikes and E-scooters, adds Paul Dyson, CEO, UMC.
Sathyanarayana N Bokkasam, head, Motor Engineering, explains,
The green motor runs 50 km per charge. Against the conventional
fuel motor which gives Rs 1.25 km per litre, this would cost only
10 paise per litre.
The E-bicycle is priced at Rs 10,000; moped for Rs 20,000; and
the light three-wheeler commercial vehicle at Rs 1.5 lakh. The
maximum speed of the E-moped is fixed at 25 km to do away with
the need to wear a helmet, get a driving licence or vehicle
registration.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Mike for posting this information. I totally agree that it is almost
all meat and is the kind of meat that should be syndicated somehow to all
the public radio stations throughout the country. I even learned some new
things there I did not know about China.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "M Bianchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:43 PM
Subject: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line (blurb added)
ANOTHER episode of "This New Car" is now on-line (MP3 recording) at
http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar/schedule.htm
Podcast/RSS support for "This New Car" is available on the same page.
The episodes are 30 minutes each and almost all meat, very little fat
compared
to most talk shows. Listen and see if you agree.
The entire schedule of 13 weeks ...
Available ...
#1 Pros and Cons of Hybrid Vehicles
#2 Pros and Cons of Alternative-Energy Vehicles
#3 Hydrogen-combustion vehicles
#4 Fuel-cell vehicles
#5 Electric & plug-in vehicles
#6 New-technology vehicles
#7 What makes a hybrid a hybrid?
#8 Saving fuel with computers
In the February 26 show, "This New Car" explores Saving Fuel With
Computers - Energy Efficiency For The HAL Of It!. Today, the hybrid
Toyota Prius, Honda Insight or Ford Escort that you drive to and from
work contains more computing power than Apollo 11, which took three
astronauts all the way to the Moon and back more than 36 years ago.
So it should be no surprise that within the last year or so, the
world's largest software company has been gearing up to become the
largest supplier of software to carmakers. Microsoft's vision is a
version of Windows CE in control of every aspect of your car -- from
satellite radio to satellite GPS, with fuel consumption thrown in for
good measure. Longtime observers of the car industry urge caution,
though. In 2000, Sun MicroSystems and General Motors predicted that
JAVA would become the computing standard for the car industry. That
has yet to happen.
Coming ...
#9 Detroit: Can the Motor City be hybrid-ized?
#10 "Green" vehicles: What are they and does the average consumer really
care?
#11 What can we with the cars we're now driving to become cleaner?
#12 Is government doing enough to back "green" vehicles?
#13 Does everyone need to own a vehicle?
"This New Car", is a special 13-week edition of "The Business Beat", on
WICN/90.5 FM and at WICN.org in Worcester, MA, the National Public Radio
affiliate serving Central New England.
The experts for this lively, informative discussion on hybrid and
alternative-fuel vehicles are
Jim Dunn the NASA Center for Technology Commercialization
Gilles Labelle the Hybrid Center of Massachusetts at Westboro
Toyota
Craig Van Batenburg the Automotive Career Development Center
all in Westboro Massachusetts.
"This New Car" is hosted by Steven Jones-D'Agostino of Best Rate Of Climb
in
Worcester, MA, and sponsored exclusively by Westboro Toyota.
--
Mike Bianchi
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there an off-the-shelf product available that could graphically display in
real-time multiple individual battery voltages simultaneously in bar chart or
other format?
Mark Freidberg
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I don't think I said that...to anyone...Ever.
> You might want to rethink What you are trying to do.
> And do your flooded lead acid home work.
> In fact I tell folks how to charge just about any battery with my Chargers.
> I am glad Roger helped you out...
> Please don't put words in my mouth that never came from them.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
Interesting. I called the phone number for Manzanita Micro and recited
verbatum the following paragraph from the manual:
You know that the control is set properly if the current drops to less
that .5 amps after an overnight charge. If the current is higher than
.5 amps, turn the voltage down to make it .5 amps. If it is less than
.5 amps, tweak the voltage up to get .5 amps after an additional hour
on charge.
I then pointed out that this paragraph is not associated with any particular
type of battery. The person on the other end of the line said (paraphrasing
from memory):
1) That only applies to AGM batteries, which most of my customers are
using.
2) I didn't write that; Joe Smalley did.
3) The current should be more like 8 or 9 amps for old, tired Trojans.
4) The roads are really icy, and I have to rush off to a doctor's
appointment right now. Sorry, goodbye.
Several emails to the email address given at Manzanita Micro's web site
received no responses. You might consider checking if the website has the
correct email address.
Brian
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just bought my first set of batteries. Nine, el-cheapos, flooded,
deep cycle. This is Texas, so if I murder them, I can get off the
hook with, "They needed killin!" As soon as the controller comes back
from the shop, they go in the car. They are in the garage lined up.
I topped em off with h20. Now they charge on my little 6 amp SCR
charger one at a time. My wife is making comments about watching the
grass grow. I plan on charging them once waiting a day and doing it
again.
Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1981 Jet Electrica, Ford Escort
My daughter named it, "Pikachu".
It's yellow and black, electric and
contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not exactly off-the-shelf, but JB Straubel's Battery Monitor
answers the description:
<http://www.jstraubel.com/BatteryMonitor/monitor.htm>
Listed cost is $400 for a "beta" unit.
Another potential possibility is Ed Ang's EWS:
<http://airlabcorp.com/EWS/>
I don't know if he's going to be producing these for sale or not.
On Feb 28, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Mark Freidberg wrote:
Is there an off-the-shelf product available that could graphically
display in real-time multiple individual battery voltages
simultaneously in bar chart or other format?
Mark Freidberg
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Brian M. Sutin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I have a string of 10 Trojan 12V 27TMH wet cell batteries on
> > the end of a PFC20 charger. I originally tried to follow the
> > ...snip...
> I would suggest that the first thing you need to do is figure out what
> ...snip...
> Hope this helps,
>
> Roger.
Very helpful, Roger. Thanks much!
Brian
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> a Link1000 works, but a link 10 is way better for 3 reasons.
>> It has a way of scaleing so the decimal looks right, it can
>> go to 1000amps with a 1000amp 100mv shunt and display
>> correctly and it has rs232.
>
>
Are you sure about this? The E-Meters (Link-10s) I've used saturate at
-511A when the discharge current exceeds 500A. A 1000A 100mV and 500A
50mV shunt look exactly the same to the E-Meter.
I have heard that you may be [have been?] able to get a version of the
E-Meter/Link-10 with software that allows it to display currents in
excess of 511A, but as far as I know the standard units don't do this.
Correct. Sorry I didn't be specific enough. I just got of the phone day before
yesturday with a xantrex engineer and he said the link 10 with the rs232 does
the 1000, but the lower end model doesn't.
>> I need to ask the list for some ideas
>> on how to achieve waterproof EV. It is raining today and my
>> drive home had me worrying. I have EXIDE Orbitals and have
>> been looking thru album but havent found an example of
>> orbitals under the hood with reg's.
>
>
Look at Al Godfrey's Porsche 914 conversion (now owned by John Littauer)
in the EV Album:
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/050c.jpg>
He used Optimas, and had his regs all mounted remotely in a box in the
trunk (the box to the left of the grey "high voltage" box in the
picture; the neat row of yellow/orange-ish rectangles is are the load
resistors (nice aluminum finned power resistors)). I remember Rich
looking at the installation and remarking to Al that this was the way it
should be done (and I think something to the effect that this was the
only example he knew of (at that time) doing it correctly).
My understanding is that when you use remote loads, you remove/disable
the onboard load.
> do you mean It does it or I do it, get out the soldering iron and desolder or
> snip/snip?
The load *resistor* is not what the onboard
thermistor is intended to protect; it is (mostly) intended to keep the
onboard FET from dying; since the FET remains onboard even with a remote
load, the thermistor can still do its job. Of course, the heat of the
onbard load resistor is also sensed (when it is used), but the resistor
itself can survive quite high temps, and when you remote the load
resistors, you can provide a cooling fan to keep them cool.
>I need to draw out the circuit so I can understand that better.
If you remote the loads, then you can enclose the regs in waterproof
boxes, etc. to protect them from the elements. You will have a pair of
wires from each reg to its remote load, and will likely have each reg in
its own individual box.
If you remote the regs, then you should use kelvin sensing of the
voltage, which means 4 wires between each reg and its battery. However,
now you can bundle multiple regs into a single enclosure to protect them
from the elements, and use a single fan (per enclosure) to keep the regs
cool.
My personal preference would be to remote the regs, as this would allow
mounting them so that all LEDs are visible in a single location rather
than scattered around the vehicle and possible hidden inside of battery
boxes. Follow Manzanita Micro's guidelines for sizing the wire between
each reg and its battery, bearing in mind that the voltage sense
connections can be much lighter guage than the load connections since
they don't carry any current. I would either use a heavy-ish guage
2-conductor and a light-guage 2-conductor cable between each reg and its
battery to make the 4 connections, or a single multi (e.g. 6-8
conductor) cable with one pair reserved for voltage sense and the rest
of the wires connected to form a pair with sufficient current capacity
for the load connections.
>I agree, but I think you can also do it with 1 kelvin wire shared between 2
>batteries, The way I understand it the difference between the voltages of a
>load carrying and non-load carring hi-impedance connection is how that process
>works. However, the kelvin pins are gone. I found the place on the regs where
>they were.
There is also a .1 header, I have no idea what those are for. Also the rt2, I
have assumed that is for remote temp of the battery do allow thermal
compensation, is that correct or is it for the external load. I think that one
is in the manual I will re-read it ;-)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> It is a bit suspicious that your sample seems to track your
> consumption so accurately (an apparent 0.008A draw with a known
> 0.007A load due to the DC/DC).
It's just a coincidence. In fact, the E-meter can't see the 8ma load of
the little DC/DC. It abrupts switches from a "0" countdown rate to about
-0.2ah/day at temperatures a little below zero, regardless of the actual
load. I attribute this to temperature drift in the E-meter finally
exceeding their programmed "ignore" limit.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not exactly off-the-shelf, but JB Straubel's Battery Monitor
answers the description:
<http://www.jstraubel.com/BatteryMonitor/monitor.htm>
Listed cost is $400 for a "beta" unit.
Just so you all don't pester him, chances of getting JB to build one
of those today remind me of a recent comment concerning snowballs and
mythical hot places.
He's extremely busy with other projects as astute readers of the EVDL
might have picked up in the last few days.
Sorry I don't have a solution for you either.
I heard a rumor that Ralph Merwin might be getting close, but I'll
let him fill you in on that's if it's true.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve - I don't question that all of this is good advice. What is it in
English? Just when I think I start to know the language you guys come up
with a "zener
A zener diode is a simple shunt voltage regulator. It's a diode that's
Thanks Eric , There is one part I should have added to the mix . a 100k
resistor from the gate to source ( base to emitter npn transistor
equivalent) to keep that mos fet off when not turned on .
WRT to the MOSFET (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor) ...
Well, that's a bit outside the scope of a simple email =) Suffice it to
say it's something of an electrically controlled switch, much like a
regular transistor.
One of the things about mosfet's is that they take almost no current to
switch on , just a voltage at the gate and it's on ( you have to ground the
gate with a hi value ( 1 meg) resistor so that it doesn't just float on ,
watch they will do ) but they do need a voltage that is at least 3v and more
like 7 above the source to turn on( this is where the zener comes in , to
get the gate turn on voltage but not higher which would burn out the gate.
, The circuit I wrote about is one I've been thinking about , for the same
problem you where talking about . Lee makes a good point about keeping it
simple and just using a relay ( no soft start , hitting the dc to dc's caps
with full voltage each time you turn on the car) . . At least if the relay
locks up the only thing that will happen is the dc to dc will be always on .
I could draw this out and put it on the www.grassrootsev.com wet site , but
will take awhile .
make to have a specific breakdown point for reverse voltages. Typically
you connect a higher voltage to a current limiting resistor that's in
series with the zener that's referenced to your ground, like this:
+12V
|
/
\
/ Current limiting resistor
\
|
+-----------> 5V out
|
__|__/
/ /\
/ \ 5V Zener Diode
----
|
|
|
0V (gnd)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: dc converter disconnect
David McWethy wrote:
Why not use a mos fet and small relay to turn the mos fet on or off.
Have the Mos fet on the negative end , a 10v zener for gate to source
to keep gate voltage form going to hi and a 1 meg resistor form dc to dc
input + to relay ( could even us opto coupler here) from other point of
relay to fet gate. you could even put a cap in parallel with zener to
give a slow start up ( save the caps in your dc to dc converter) .
". I still don't know what a "mos fet" is , tho
the term is now familiar.
I should have paid attention to this stuff 20 years ago!
Dave
This is only suitable for very low power output.
WRT to the MOSFET (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor) ...
Well, that's a bit outside the scope of a simple email =) Suffice it to
say it's something of an electrically controlled switch, much like a
regular transistor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 1982 VW Rabbit conversion with Kelsey-Hayes front disc brakes.
The drag cuts my range and heats the wheels to the touch. It doesn't
have the anti-rattle springs that the repair book shows. What do I do?
Are there spreader springs that can be added to cut the drag?
Gordon Schaeffer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Magnacraft relay that can easily cut out the DC/DC when charging.
It could also do things like take out the precharge resistor. It just
depends on how you want to design your system. There are many ways to do
it. LR.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if Electrathoners use pulse driving technique. Going lets say 30
to 45mph and using the coast to extract extra distance. Lawrence
Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Eberhard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Electrathon controller selection
Hello,
this is my first post. I'm building an electrathon, a kind of
electric go-kart used in 1 hour endurance races. I have an
Etek motor, and now I'm selecting a controller. I want regen,
and 48V. I've narrowed it down to a few:
1. Navitas TPM400-48 (http://www.navitastechnologies.com/tpm400.html)
2. Sevcon MillipaK 4Q (
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=268&product_id=2116)
3. 4QD PRO-150 (http://www.4qd.co.uk/prod/Prog150/index.html)
4. Alltrax AXE 4844 (
http://www.golfcarcatalog.com/catalog/index.cfm?fuseaction=product&id=3541)
5. Curtis 1227-41XX (
http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cProducts.dspProductCategory&catID=10
)
The alltrax doesn't have regen, but a lot of other teams use it.
If anyone has any data, opinion, experience regarding efficiency, how
hot they get, ruggedness, warranty, etc.. please post. :)
Thanks,
Tom.
http://www.kamoyatic.com/Electrathon
http://www.TomEberhard.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Need to get AC Propulsion's tZero on the list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 15:31 PM
Subject: Re: New feature...EVs spotlighted at dragtimes.com
> Hello to All,
>
> I always read Steve's posts, because he usually has a strong grip on
> reality. I also find all of what he accomplishes, pretty amazing. He
> makes particular good sense again with this:
>
> STEVE CLUNN wrote:
>
> > I was thinking of putting mine in but a 17.25 1/4 don't seem that
> > impresive , . Don't want people to think electrices are slow :-) .
> > Steve Clunn
>
>
> Agreed, and thanks for realizing this. I'm thrilled to have quick and
> powerful electrics being recognized at the DragTimes.com website.
> Anything in the 14's and under deserves to be there. Anything slower,
> will only serve to make folks currently getting blown away by these
> machines, start to yawn. It's important to submit only the more
> exciting timeslips of top performing EVs, and to refrain from diluting
> things with slower EV time slips.
>
> This isn't meant to discourage other EVers from getting their EVs on the
> strip...you have to start somewhere. Get out there, race your EVs,
> improve them, come up with new ideas, get those ETs lower and lower, and
> when you're in the fast crowd of the 14 second and under boys, then
> submit your time slips for all to see and be impressed by.
>
> Thanks again, Steve, for these wise words.
>
> See Ya.......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
Thanks for the description,
you managed to totally confuse me.
I am a man of vision - a picture is 1000 words.
Got any photos?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?
The type of power receptacle I am using is a 50 amp 4 wire 125/250 volt
rated. It is a heavy duty Arrow Hart type that has large box set screw lugs
for stranded No. 6 awg copper wires that consist of two line wires, a
neutral and a ground connection.
The matting plug is also a heavy duty Arrow Hart 90 degree 4-wire type with
set screw box lugs.
The power cord is a No 6 gage copper silver coated very fine wires, (its not
the 19 stranded type this is common) but has very fine wires like welding
wire has.
The receptacle and connector at the EV is a water tight inline connector
where the female connector has a overlapping shell that covers the
receptacle This is a very heavy duty 50 amp rated Daniel Woodhead
industrial all nylon type that also has large box set screw for the very
fine no. 6 awg copper wire.
The wire connections to the connector lugs are straight in. I perform a
straight out pull test on this cable from the plug. At over 100 ft lbs, the
connector will not disconnected from the receptacle, but the small stranded
wires when pull become smaller in diameter and just pull right out of the
plug with out any damage. I did this about 4 times when I forgot to unplug
the EV. Someday I have to add another power pole to the size 2 3-pole AC
contactor so it will lockout the 12 volt control circuit to the controller.
The receptacle is in close in a large Power Anderson cast aluminum housing
that is used for the large 200 amp 6 wire 480 vac receptacles A water tight
flip cover with gasket is attach to the same door as the existing gasoline
excise door. Everytime I open up this door the housing cover opens up too.
This Power Anderson receptacle enclosure which is like a 4 inch diameter
aluminum pipe with a flip cover on one end and a bolt on flange at the other
end, is design to bolt up to a enclosure. I install a 1/4 thick blank plate
at that end with a 1-1/2 hole which the 1-1/2 threaded end of the receptacle
is inserted into and the cable nut is than tighten down holding the inline
receptacle and the cable that goes through the bottom of the sheet metal of
the car.
In this sheet metal entry, a 1-1/2 conduit knock hole was install and a
water tight 90 degree box connector is install at this point.
A 1-1/2 inch conduit coupling is screw on to the 90 degree box connector on
the other side of the sheet metal. This coupling goes up through the bottom
of a fiber glass equipment enclosure to the bottom of a Hoffman Enclosure
chassis plate. A conduit chase nipple is install securing the coupling to
the chassis plate.
The wires than go to a chassis mounted Square D 2-pole 250VAC 60 amp circuit
breaker. The power circuit from this circuit breaker goes to a Size 2 3-pole
AC contactor that is energized every time the plug is inserted into the EV.
The circuit from the contactor goes to the a power terminal block which
connects to the input power to a PFC-50B charger.
I still have to add a power pole to this AC contactor, connect up the 12
volt ignition control to it, so If I forgot to unplug the EV it will not
allow any ignition control power.
I also have to design a ground fault circuit, so that anyone that is
standing bare footed on the ground and touching any one of the battery
terminals while the batteries is charging, it will trip a small plug in
industrial glass low voltage relay, that will shut down the 120 vac coil of
the input power magnetic contactor which will drop off the AC input.
My battery boxes, charger enclosure and equipment enclosure is heavy 1/4
inch thick epoxy coated fiberglass. The only item that is AC ground is the
battery charger case it self. The entire chassis of the EV is isolated from
the AC ground. So when I charge the batteries, I get 0 volts between any
batteries and the chassis of the vehicle.
Also, there are two large 600 amp 600 volt DC Cableform contactors that
isolated the batteries and charger voltage from the controller circuits and
accessory DC-DC, heaters and accessory drive motors, which is off when the
ignition is off.
There is a 100 amp DC contactor that isolates the battery charger from the
batteries when shut down. I found that if the charger is connected up to
the batteries and the AC power is off, and you lift up any one battery
connector, I will get a spark cause by the capacitor circuits in the
charger, even after 24 hours of used. This could become very dangerous if
there is some battery fumes.
So, you really have a bomb if you do not install the AC and DC power
circuits correctly.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:40 PM
Subject: Charging outlet - what is common?
> What type of charging outlet do you have or is most used
> and where to get it best?
> I consider an indoor and one outdoor outlet, most likely a 30A
> 240V type.
> Is a dryer type outlet common?
> Which type or where to get a waterproof version for outdoor?
>
> How are experiences between this outlet and an AVCON?
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:34 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: First week's impression of my conversion.
>
>
> Hello Jeff,
>
> I also plug my EV in the back, but I have a receptacle on the wall at the
> back of the garage, plus one just outside on the wall of the garage and
> another one on a power post at the end of the driveway. They are all on
> the
>
> same 50 amp circuit breaker using three 125/250 50 amp 4 wire receptacles.
>
> If you just have one receptacle in the front, just go down to Home Depot
> and
>
> purchase the surface mounted wireway made by Wiremold. You remove the
> power
>
> receptacle up to 50 amp type and install a Wiremold extension box over the
> existing outlet box. This allows you to run a Wiremold raceway on the
> surface to the back of the parking area or garage. Install a large
> surface
> box for your power receptacle.
>
> If its not a enclose garage, but a cover parking space, then you can
> install
>
> a cast aluminum extension box over the existing outlet junction box and
> run
> conduit with watertight box connectors to a surface mounted cast aluminum
> receptacle box. You can also gets these at Home Depot made by the Bell
> Electrical company.
>
> You can have as many 30 to 50 amps power receptacles on the circuit as
> long
> as you have just one circuit breaker size for that receptacle and wire or
> just blank off the front receptacle with a blank plate and reused the
> receptacle in the back if it's a 30 to 50 amp type.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:50 PM
> Subject: First week's impression of my conversion.
>
>
> > Well, I have driven to work and errands mostly with my converted 300zx,
> > about 101 miles so far.
> > There is so much that still needs to be done, but it has been fun.
> >
> > but, observations
> > My EV mileage sucks: I am using mapquest to determine miles since
> > odometer is broken and I have put the emeter on kWh so I can say that I
> > am getting 425wh/mile. ack, cough. Although it seems to coast and
> > coast, that is way high and ther must be something dragging.
> >
> > Wireing an EV for having the plug in back wasn't very bright. I had
> > planned to put a cord real thru the old filler location, but, honestly,
> > how many times do I back into the parking stall? Having it in back means
> > running wire from front of car to charger in back, then an extension
> > cord past the front of car bac to plug in front, doh!.
> >
> > a Link1000 works, but a link 10 is way better for 3 reasons. It has a
> > way of scaleing so the decimal looks right, it can go to 1000amps with a
> > 1000amp 100mv shunt and display correctly and it has rs232.
> >
> > Not having an alternator, or a dc-dc and keeping the aux battery charged
> > is a pain. Plus the aux battery is also an AGM and that means it needs a
> > bloody regulator or a chair next to the car so I can watch the
> > voltmeter.
> >
> > 5 times I have thought I was chargeing and I wasn't
> > 2 popped breakers.
> > 1 plug in and walk away, but switch is off (duh, leaves handprint on
> > forehead)
> > 1 plug in without checking current controll knob, Have to manually turn
> > charger down near end of charge until I upgrade the charger. Gotta
> > remember to crank it back up!
> > And today, when a reg got wet and told the charge to go into equalize
> > mode. let me see .1 amp * 300V is 30watts, i need 3,400 to get home,
> > that is 113 hours! Unplugged communication and started chargeing at 5.5
> > amps and went into shop. Realized that that means reg is in eq mode and
> > charger isn't and ran back to pull the regs fuse, Yes the heat sink was
> > hot!
> >
> > The wetherman is 1/2 wrong.
> > I didn't waterproof under the hood and water dripped onto a regulator
> > and "damaged" it. I didn't want the pack to sit too long before it got a
> > proper charge and kind of rushed the regulator installation. I need to
> > ask the list for some ideas on how to achieve waterproof EV. It is
> > raining today and my drive home had me worrying. I have EXIDE Orbitals
> > and have been looking thru album but havent found an example of orbitals
> > under the hood with reg's.
> > When I plug in an external load, does it do all the bypassing? If
> > this is the case, I could put them in an enclosure and put the loads
> > external. I look at the circuit and it doesn't seem like that is
> > possible, the thermister is under the on-board heatsink looks like it is
> > still the basis of control.
> >
> > options are
> >
> > remote mount all the regs in a drip-proof box and put a fan and a filter
> > on it
> >
> > remove batteries and make a box, then fan, and filter. with regs on top
> > of each battery.
> >
> > totally seal off engine compartment and have one big fan and filter to
> > cool motor and regs. Make it like a trunk.
> >
> > make a top box, a thin box with holes in the bottom for the posts. al
> > the cables and regs are in this and a fan keeps them from getting too
> > hot.
> >
> > what am I missing?
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Doug & Otmar.
Has anyone tried using a graphic equalizer display?
Mark
Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It's not exactly off-the-shelf, but JB Straubel's Battery Monitor
>answers the description:
>
>
>
>Listed cost is $400 for a "beta" unit.
Just so you all don't pester him, chances of getting JB to build one
of those today remind me of a recent comment concerning snowballs and
mythical hot places.
He's extremely busy with other projects as astute readers of the EVDL
might have picked up in the last few days.
Sorry I don't have a solution for you either.
I heard a rumor that Ralph Merwin might be getting close, but I'll
let him fill you in on that's if it's true.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0729/p17s02-stct.html
July, 2004 Christian Science Monitor article.
Regulation Services, not Peak Demand, is the thing EVs
would profit from supplying under V2G. The premise is
that production EVs would have electronics and battery
packs capable of handling V2G duty. Frequency
regulation of the grid is the high value service V2G
EVs would supply. Home conversion EVs without the
requisite sensing & switching capabilities wouldn't be
candidates for this, but might want to charge at V2G
capable charging stations. It seems to me like
something worth supporting.
The pie is attractive enough that California has
approved a flywheel system to provide the sort of
regulation services V2G could be supplying.
http://www.electricity.doe.gov/documents/CEC_Press_Beac.pdf
V2G isn't a giveaway program. It's not an automatic
$3000 in every EV'ers pocket every year forever. It's
icing on the cake for some EV owners. A viable V2G
system needs V2G vehicles. Auto makers aren't going to
be leading the charge on this.
http://www.sustainableballard.org/ev2g/pdf/Kempton-V2G-Designing-June05.pdf
Seattle, one 133 U.S. communities voluntarily
committed to meet Kyoto Protocol stardards, is further
interested in V2G to curtail greenhouse gas emissions
to meet those standards.
http://electrictransportsolutions.blogspot.com/2005/07/such-great-v2g-article-from-bill-moore.html
-brian
>
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:46:05 -0600
> From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic
> concept
>
> I just don't see it, myself. The power grid still
> has to be designed
> with its own reserve capacity because they can't
> rely on the vehicles to
> be in the right place at the right time, every time.
> I mean, you have a
> holiday or flu scare or sunny day or whatever and
> people's habits
> change and the capacity may not be there.
>
> If battery power is indeed economical and in such
> demand that they'll
> pay $3000/yr to use it, then me, I'm investing in
> raw bulk capacity and
> one much bigger and cheaper (per kw)
> inverter/charger to do 30x that,
> and get $90k a year. It would take a year or two
> for the system to pay
> itself off and then I can retire. Heck, I'll put
> one on every block and
> become a millionare.
>
> Of course I'm kidding. What I'm saying is the
> principle doesn't seem to
> be realistic, if the peak demand power is really
> worth that much then
> the power company would simply buy their own system,
> put it exactly
> where they need it and professionally maintain it,
> which is far more
> effective and cheaper. The numbers either aren't
> really that high or
> won't stay that high. Perhaps they arose from an
> unrealistic "best case
> ever" scenario, or maybe those numbers would come
> way down once the
> power company realizes they can meet the peak demand
> issue themselves
> economically with their own huge li-ion battery
> banks.
>
> Danny
>
> Brian Cole wrote:
>
> >"Some people," as in tens of thousands of ev'ers
> >buying into the concept? With efficient lithium
> >battery packs? Since California's old ev mandates
> >didn't hold up, we're back to the chicken - egg
> >problem in getting this idea off the ground.
> >Fortunately, some public utilities are keen on
> >implementing V2G. Is anything moving ahead in
> Seattle
> >on this?
> >http://www.nwcurrent.com/smartenergy/1637126.html
> >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you rebuilt the calipers? If you drive mildly and don't stomp on the
brakes, do they still
heat up? Disc brakes work by converting kinetic energy into heat. They will
heat up some just in
normal use. Now if you are just driving a long distance without using the
brakes and they heat up
still, then you may have dragging brakes. Does you car roll ok on flat ground?
My car has four
wheel dics and I can pull or push it around the garage no problem. Normally
operating disc brakes
do not produce any significant drag!
Let the holy war begin.
Dave Cover
--- Gordon G Schaeffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a 1982 VW Rabbit conversion with Kelsey-Hayes front disc brakes.
> The drag cuts my range and heats the wheels to the touch. It doesn't
> have the anti-rattle springs that the repair book shows. What do I do?
> Are there spreader springs that can be added to cut the drag?
> Gordon Schaeffer
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
