EV Digest 5227
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: How simply can battery voltage monitors be made?
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Birth of the Prius
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: GFCI again (Was: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: The Names have been Changed to Protect the Innocent!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Charging outlet - what is common?
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Transformer cores
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: How simply can battery voltage monitors be made?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Very GOOD EV Article from Falls Church Virginia
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Off-the-shelf multiple battery voltage display sought
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Three phase 400Hz motor
by "Steve Arlint" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: The Names have been Changed to Protect the Innocent!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Birth of the Prius
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Off-the-shelf multiple battery voltage display sought
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Off-the-shelf multiple battery voltage display sought
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Transformer cores
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: li cell testers/BMS developers
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: GFCI again (Was: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: li cell testers/BMS developers
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Looking for suggestions for converting 6054 type headlights to HID
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Looking for suggestions for converting 6054 type headlights to HID
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Looking for suggestions for converting 6054 type headlights to HID
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart says:
Here's a very simple indicator. It uses 3 parts per battery; a resistor,
zener diode, and LED in series. They cost under $1 per battery, and
should take less than 1 hour per battery to build and install. The LED
is off below 10.5v; and gradually gets brighter as the voltage rises
until it is at full brightness at 15v.
1k ohm red zener
resistor LED diode
(+12v)-----/\/\-----|>|-----|<|-----(-12v)
^ ^
longer lead__| |__banded end
A red LED barely glows at about 1.5v at 1ma, and is brightly lit at 2.3v
at 20ma. So for a 10.5v threshold, use a 10.5v - 1.5v = 9v zener; for
example, a 1N5239 is a 9.1v zener diode. Pick the resistor to limit the
maximum current to set the maximum brightness; for 20ma at 15v, R = V/I
= (15v-10.5v-2.3v)/0.02a = 110 ohms (120 ohms is close enough and a
standard value).
_____________________
Once again, I'm inspired by one of Lee Hart's simple circuits! I'm invisioning
wiring this up to adjacent segments of a couple of LED bargraphs,
one segment per battery. But I have a couple of questions: First: shouldn't
the resistor calculation be (15v-9.1v-2.3v)/0.02a = 180 ohms,
not 110? It seems to me that using 10.5 in the equation instead of 9.1 uses
first 1.4v of the LED twice. Or am I, once again, confused? Next -
what's the 1k ohm resistor doing there? My last question is whether it would
be possible to wire 3 or 4 of these circuits in parallel to one
battery with ascending zener voltages (and descending resistors) so that every
1/2 volt or so a new LED would light up, to show approximate
state of charge, voltage sag under acceleration, etc. I'm envisioning having a
set of LED's using the basic circuit Lee has described, one for
each battery, then having one battery with a set of 3 or 4 additional LED's at
roughly 1/2 volt intervals as a rough guage of overall voltage
level. Or would that not work for some reason I don't know about?
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a great article, besides drama @ the Prius, it mentions how Toyota is
paying attention to the grassroots, and gathered intelligence from an Insight
enthusiast's website...
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/03/06/8370702/index.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I used is a Square D two pole - common trip 120/240 vac circuit breaker
that has a built in ground fault circuit interrupter built in to it.
The 15 to 60 amp 2-pole circuit breakers are the same size and same cost.
They are the same type of plug in type that plugs into a panel board.
To chassis mount them, you use a circuit breaker mounting base.
I am using a Square D No. Q0260GFI for a 60 amp that is mounted in my EV
between the input plug and PFC-50 charger that is mounted on a QON2L70
mounting base.
For your PFC-20 you could use either a 20 or 25 amp circuit breaker which
would be Square D QO220GFI for 20 amp or QO225GFI for 25 amp.
You can get these at Home Depot which they will have to special order them.
It would be best if you can get them from a wholesale electrical parts
supplier, where you can get them for half price.
The whole sale today cost on a 2 pole breaker is about $140.00!! I bought my
in 1985 for $80.00.
Two 120 volt GFCI receptacles will not work when using 240 volts. A 120
volt GFCI receptacle is reading the difference in ampere between the line
wire and the neutral. If you used two receptacles where the two line wires
or L1 and L2 is in series with the load, the neutral has no current on it
when both lines have the same ampere.
This is a common practice in wiring up two or three standard receptacles on
two or three phases sharing a common neutral. When all two lines or three
lines has the same ampere, there is no current flow in the neutral at the
time.
If you connected up two GFCI receptacles this way, the receptacle will open
because it will not detect any current flow on the neutral wire. In a GFCI
circuit, the neutral line will have the same current flow as the line
conductor. If one is line is less than the GFCI will open. Sometimes the
GFCI will not work as a interrupter.
The two pole GFCI circuit breaker is reading the difference between Line1
and Line2 and not a neutral.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:53 PM
Subject: GFCI again (Was: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?)
>
> On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:29 AM, Rush wrote:
>
> > Also somebody, Nick Viera I think, put up a web site that had all the
> > NEMA plugs and specs. I thought I had it book marked, but haven't been
> > able to find it. He has also made a nice schematic of his modular
> > plugs
> > http://go.driveev.com/jeepev/convpgs/charger.php, which I plan to
> > copy...
>
> Looks nice. I'm pondering the same thing at the moment.
>
> I have a PFC-20 and want to be able to use it safely on either 120v or
> 240v. I know that there was a lot of discussion recently about GFCI
> for the Manzanita Micro PFC chargers, but sadly, I don't think there
> was ever a consensus on the best solution. So I'm reopening the
> discussion again - sorry about that.
>
> I haven't been able to find a dual-voltage GFCI (does anyone know of
> one?), so I need two of them. One solution is to put two GFCI male
> plugins inside the vehicle and wire them both to the charger. This
> makes it necessary to prevent power being present on the unused pins,
> so there would need to be safety interlocks and/or relays that
> disconnect the unused outlet.
>
> Another solution that just occurred to me would be two inline
> waterproof GFCIs. Add them to Nick's adapters. Plus another one for
> L6-30 outlets (the long extension cord doesn't have a GFCI in it).
>
> So is this a stupid idea, or a waste of time? Should I just build the
> dual outlets and interlocks? Or not worry about GFCI?
>
> >
> > Rush
> >
> > Tucson AZ
> > www.ironandwood.org
> >
> >
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Bend, OR, USA
> <http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Matthew D. Graham wrote:
Great video, John! Looks like you're going to need to break out the putty
knife to scrape all that tire slag off of White Zombie!
Yeah, it was fun. Tim's two burnouts put mine to shame, though, but mine
is the only one right next to a cop car! I'll get Tim's two outrageous
burnouts posted tonight.
I hope you've got video of the runs down the track, too!
Yup, got both of those as well. The quality of these isn't the best :-(
Tim ran the video cam when I made the first run, and the east wind was
really kicking up to where he had a hard time keeping the camera steady.
To add to the problems, there was a parked vehicle in the middle where
we staged, so you can't see the launch of the cop car as well as I had
hoped for. You 'can' see me waving 'Bye Bye' to the cop, though! Officer
Bill's wife ran the video cam on Tim's race and used the tripod, but
even that one kind of sucks, as she didn't zoom in for the launch :-( ,
she lost track of the cars for a while, there's a bit of confused shots
before she found the cars in the lens again, then she didn't zoom in
towards the end, either. Finally, the video of the cop chasing me with
his siren and lights on, is shaky and not-so-clear, so even that video
is funky....oh well.
At least all three burnouts are pretty good on video :-)
See Ya.......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly, thanks a lot David!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?
> On 2 Mar 2006 at 10:29, Rush wrote:
>
>> a web site that had all the NEMA
>> plugs and specs.
>
> Does this help?
>
> http://www.leviton.com/sections/techsupp/nema.htm
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> The capacitors must be AC types (NOT ELECTROLYTICs!) because with
>> no load they can charge as high as DOUBLE the applied DC voltage.
Victor Tikhonov replied:
> It doesn't matter how high the voltage gets. Normally you must
> use AC caps types because of polarity on them gets reversed,
> not because of magnitude of the voltage in them.
There are AC electrolytics, which are not polarized. They are commonly
used as motor starting capacitors. I was concerned someone might try one
of them in this circuit. It wouldn't work (and would probably fail
spectacularly).
> Even if voltage tenfolds you still can use electolytics *provided*
> they can handle ripple current and rated for highest (+ some) voltage
> they will see.
Ripple current is another point against electrolytics in this circuit.
Electrolytics have a high internal resistance compared to their
capacitance, so they get hot when there is a lot of AC current. In this
circuit, their electrolyte would boil after a minute or two, and they
would vent or explode!
The proper types of capacitors for this circuit are polypropylene film
or paper/oil. They have far lower internal resistance, and so will not
get hot or fail.
Some numbers will illustate this. Suppose your transformer has a 120vac
primary, and a 12vac 15amp secondary. Thus, the primary current is 15a x
12v/120v = 1.5 amps. The capacitor's voltage swing is about 120vac; so
its reactance is Xc = 120v/1.5a = 80 ohms. That requires a capacitance
of C = 1 / (2 x 3.14 x 60hz x 80ohms) = 33uF.
The capacitance is actually split between C1 and C2 in this circuit; so
you need two 18uF capacitors that can stand 0.75amps of ripple current.
This is easy to do with film and oil/paper capacitors. But the best
nonpolar electrolytics are only rated at 1/10th this current or less.
Finally, film capacitors typically have a peak voltage rating far above
their AC voltage rating. Most parts used on the AC line get UL listed,
and UL requires that a 120vac rated part can withstand 1250v.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart says:
> Here's a very simple indicator...
>
> 180 ohm red zener
> resistor LED diode
> (+12v)-----/\/\-----|>|-----|<|-----(-12v)
> ^ ^
> longer lead__| |__banded end
>
> A red LED barely glows at about 1.5v at 1ma, and is brightly lit at 2.3v
> at 20ma. So for a 10.5v threshold, use a 10.5v - 1.5v = 9v zener; for
> example, a 1N5239 is a 9.1v zener diode. Pick the resistor to limit the
> maximum current to set the maximum brightness; for 20ma at 15v, R = V/I
> = (15v-10.5v-2.3v)/0.02a = 110 ohms (120 ohms is close enough and a
> standard value).
kluge wrote:
> I'm envisioning wiring this up to adjacent segments of a couple of LED
> bargraphs, one segment per battery.
You could; but I wouldn't. The adjacent segments of an LED bargraph
aren't built to have much voltage difference between them. If you used
one per 12v battery, there would be 12v between adjacent pins of that
package, and 120v between the ends!
So I'd use individual LEDs, with substantial insulation between them.
> Shouldn't the resistor calculation be (15v-9.1v-2.3v)/0.02a = 180 ohms,
> not 110?
Thanks for the correction. I fixed it in the above schematic. I just
dashed it off in a hurry, and didn't proofread it well enough (note that
I put 1k in the schematic when I first typed it, then 110 ohms when I
calculated it. Both were wrong!)
> what's the 1k ohm resistor doing there?
It limits the maximum LED current when the battery is at 15v.
> My last question is whether it would be possible to wire 3 or 4 of
> these circuits in parallel to one battery with ascending zener
> voltages (and descending resistors) so that every 1/2 volt or so a
> new LED would light up, to show approximate state of charge, voltage
> sag under acceleration, etc.
You could, but there are better ways. This was intended as an ultra
quick-and-dirty circuit; not the basis for an accurate measurement
system.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excuse me if some one has already RE-Posted this article from Falls
Church, but it is SO WELL Written... We should all read it again.
Course all of US... already know this stuff..
http://www.fcnp.com/552/peakoil.htm
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about this circuit below? When resistors are all
the same value, the voltage across each of them would
be the average voltage of each battery. The LED's are
connected from these taps to the negatives terminal of
each battery. If the battery voltage is lower than
the average (by more than the forward voltage of the
LED), the LED would turn on.
This might be an easy way to find a weak battery.
Replace the LED's with opto's, you could have isolated
display on the dash...
You will have to monitor the last battery separately.
+---------------------+
| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\|
.
.
.
+---------------------+
| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+---------------------+
Ed Ang
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings,
Well I have been having great progress in the DC motor and controller world so
far. I figured it was time to step it up a bit and explore AC. Well the motor
that I just got from ebay is a 200V 400Hz motor. The HP rating is (7/8). The
rating is for 5500 rpm. Other than that, there is no easy to decipher info.
It is made by IMC magnetics corp. Date code suggests Sep, 1982.
So here are some questions for the list:
1. Since that is the continuous power, what should be approximately the peak
rating? Between each of the three wires there are 2 ohms of DC resistance.
This question is mainly for acceleration. This motor will go into a Kymco
scooter.
2. How many poles? I got 14, but I might be wrong. (200V*400Hz)/14poles =
5714 rpm. The 5500 rpm allows for slip. I think.
3. If I raise the voltage and gear the motor down, I should be able to run
with the same HP, but with lower current. What is the limiting factor on
applying more voltage to an AC motor? For DC it is the Comm arcing and RPM of
the rotor. AC motors have rotors of different construction, though there is
still a limit. I would like to run at 288V, but that may be too much.
4. Does anyone make a inexpensive (non aircraft) 400HZ 3 phase motor that
could be used for this application. I saw the high quality motors from
Metricmind, but they all seem too big for a motor scooter. My motor weighs 8.5
lbs. Something under 20 lbs would work fine.
VR,
Steven Arlint
University of Portland
Electrical Engineering Student
--
_______________________________________________
Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org
This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox.
Powered by Outblaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
More videos have been uploaded to the Plasma Boy Racing videos page:
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/videos.php
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah, did you read the POG
(Prius Owners Group)
http://www.priusownersgroup.com/?p=820
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Birth of the Prius
Here's a great article, besides drama @ the Prius, it mentions how Toyota is
paying attention to the grassroots, and gathered intelligence from an
Insight enthusiast's website...
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/03/06/8370702/in
dex.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ed,
Actually an anti-parallel LED to the first will show a weak battery in the
top position.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Edward Ang
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Off-the-shelf multiple battery voltage display sought
How about this circuit below? When resistors are all
the same value, the voltage across each of them would
be the average voltage of each battery. The LED's are
connected from these taps to the negatives terminal of
each battery. If the battery voltage is lower than
the average (by more than the forward voltage of the
LED), the LED would turn on.
This might be an easy way to find a weak battery.
Replace the LED's with opto's, you could have isolated
display on the dash...
You will have to monitor the last battery separately.
+---------------------+
| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\|
.
.
.
+---------------------+
| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+---------------------+
Ed Ang
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The difficulty is that the gain and threshold of the opto is not really
accurate, which reduces the accuracy. The parameters vary from the mfg
and they vary with age and especially temperature. An initial
calibration won't compensate for the second two items. If it's a
digital signal- like you have an ADC and a serial output, or a
voltage-to-freq converter- then there's no problem. Optos are used
primarily for digital signals.
Danny
Edward Ang wrote:
How about this circuit below? When resistors are all
the same value, the voltage across each of them would
be the average voltage of each battery. The LED's are
connected from these taps to the negatives terminal of
each battery. If the battery voltage is lower than
the average (by more than the forward voltage of the
LED), the LED would turn on.
This might be an easy way to find a weak battery.
Replace the LED's with opto's, you could have isolated
display on the dash...
You will have to monitor the last battery separately.
+---------------------+
| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\|
.
.
.
+---------------------+
| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+--------|/|----------+
| |\| /
----- \
--- /
| \
+---------------------+
Ed Ang
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3/2/06, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You could with a 12v 15amp battery charger; it already has the
> transformer, rectifier, ammeter, and sometimes charge control circuitry.
> The simplest circuit is probably a half-bridge, with 2 SCRs and 2
> capacitors, like this:
>
Hello Lee,
Thanks for this, I've been experimenting with something similar for
a different application and hadn't tried this simple SCR arrangement
yet (largely because modern design references and text books don't
cover it!).
Best regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am interested.
Which LiIon battery is this?
Do you have specs?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 3:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: li cell testers/BMS developers
I had messaged a few listees about testing some li-ion batteries, but if
anyone
else out there can do load testing on these *and* design a BSM for them, let
me
know and I'll give you the email address for the manufacturer's rep - they
can
send a couple samples to play with.
cowtown at spamcop.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is no GFCI inside the PFC chargers because we could not find a dual
voltage GFCI during design.
If you wanted proper protection it was appropriate to purchase TWO inline
GFCI adapters.
One for 120 VAC and one for 240 VAC and use the one appropriate for the
power source.
On a search tonight, I located a 20 Amp dual voltage inline GFCI at
http://www.trci.net/products/shock_shield/pdf/25000.pdf
Cost is listed as $55.67 at
http://www.trcelectrical.com/search.php?byItemNumber=25000
There is a 40 amp version described at
http://www.trci.net/products/hd_pro/pdf/24130.pdf that would be appropriate
for a PFC-30 or PFC-40. Cost is listed as $214.53 at
http://www.trcelectrical.com/search.php?byItemNumber=24130
A 60 amp version is described at
http://www.trci.net/products/hd_pro/pdf/24520.pdf that would be appropriate
for a PFC-50. There is no dual voltage listed therefore two devices would be
needed for protection at both 120 VAC and 240 VAC. Cost is listed as $424.55
at http://www.trcelectrical.com/search.php?byItemNumber=24520
I did not find distributor information for these devices.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: GFCI again (Was: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?)
>
> On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:29 AM, Rush wrote:
>
> > Also somebody, Nick Viera I think, put up a web site that had all the
> > NEMA plugs and specs. I thought I had it book marked, but haven't been
> > able to find it. He has also made a nice schematic of his modular
> > plugs
> > http://go.driveev.com/jeepev/convpgs/charger.php, which I plan to
> > copy...
>
> Looks nice. I'm pondering the same thing at the moment.
>
> I have a PFC-20 and want to be able to use it safely on either 120v or
> 240v. I know that there was a lot of discussion recently about GFCI
> for the Manzanita Micro PFC chargers, but sadly, I don't think there
> was ever a consensus on the best solution. So I'm reopening the
> discussion again - sorry about that.
>
> I haven't been able to find a dual-voltage GFCI (does anyone know of
> one?), so I need two of them. One solution is to put two GFCI male
> plugins inside the vehicle and wire them both to the charger. This
> makes it necessary to prevent power being present on the unused pins,
> so there would need to be safety interlocks and/or relays that
> disconnect the unused outlet.
>
> Another solution that just occurred to me would be two inline
> waterproof GFCIs. Add them to Nick's adapters. Plus another one for
> L6-30 outlets (the long extension cord doesn't have a GFCI in it).
>
> So is this a stupid idea, or a waste of time? Should I just build the
> dual outlets and interlocks? Or not worry about GFCI?
>
> >
> > Rush
> >
> > Tucson AZ
> > www.ironandwood.org
> >
> >
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Bend, OR, USA
> <http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm interested also ,
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water"
I am interested.
I had messaged a few listees about testing some li-ion batteries, but if
anyone
else out there can do load testing on these *and* design a BSM for them,
let
me
know and I'll give you the email address for the manufacturer's rep - they
can
send a couple samples to play with.
cowtown at spamcop.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my opinion, these lights ought to be banned from the road - they blind
me, and I'm sure I'm not alone!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for converting 6054 type headlights to
HID
> yeah, significant experience. Enough to know that halogen lamps
> SUPPLIED WITH THE PROPER VOLTAGE are far superior except where power
> consumption is a very big concern. The problem is that few if any OEM
> wiring systems get the proper voltage to the lamps.
>
> AFIK, there are no DOT-approved aftermarket HID lights available. At
> least there weren't last time I did a survey at the end of summer.
>
> The market is hot for OEM projector HID lamps salvaged from wrecks but
> major fabrication is required to fit them to cars not originally
> designed for them. There are at least a couple of companies offering
> new projector luninaries that look suspiciously like OEM spare parts
> but they're expensive and not DOT approved as general purpose
> headlamps.
>
> Speaking of DOT, they're urging states to crack down on aftermarket
> HIDs because of the glare problem. I've read the letter the local
> cops received last year on this topic. The local cops are not being
> particularly chicken-sh*t about this but others may be. The letter
> urges any "bluish headlights" to be checked out via a traffic stop.
> Except for the listed OEMs, of course. The letter contains photos of
> common ballasts to help identify HIDs.
>
> If power consumption is a problem and DOT compliance isn't and
> preferably if you're operating off-road, you can buy aftermarket HIDs
> from places like this:
>
> http://www.trailtech.net/racelight.htm
>
> Those are NOT DOT approved and the pattern isn't suitable for oncoming
> traffic.
>
> Power consumption was a critical concern on my electric scooter. I
> only had 55 watts of 13.8 volt power for lighting. The DC/DC
> converter would not light a 55 watt halogen bulb (not enough inrush
> capability) and a 35 watt bulb provided insufficient illumination for
> safe riding. Plus, with only 30 ah of storage on-board, I really
> didn't want to feed even 35 watts to the lighting system.
>
> I installed one of these:
>
> http://www.trailtech.net/motorcycle_hid_parts.htm
>
> This light is rated at 13 watts nom, 10 watts to the HID bulb. It
> draws exactly 1 amp at 13.8 volts. The light output is essentially
> equivalent to a 55 watt MR-16 halogen lamp.
>
> This luminare uses the Welch-Allyn Solarc short arc metal halide
> system. They offer bulbs and ballasts in various sizes up to about
> 100 watts. The 13 watt lamp/ballast combo is more expensive from W-A
> than the whole fixture is from Trail Tech. Trail Tech sells the bulb
> and ballast as spare parts but the price is around $80. The HID lamp
> is mounted in a standard MR-16 reflector and in the projector version
> I got, projects a very sharp edged round beam.
>
> I suggest upgrading the wiring to your existing lights. Short direct
> runs of heavy gauge (8 or 10 gauge) wire directly from your DC/DC
> converter to the headlights. Use a relay to switch the lights, said
> relay operated by the existing headlight wiring. The dirt-cheap Bosch
> SPST 30 amp sugar cube relay available from any car parts store is a
> good choice.
>
> I've done a lot of these conversions for customers. I've never found
> more than 12 volts at the bulb terminals and then only with the engine
> running and the alternator at full voltage. More typical is something
> in the 11 volt range. Bringing the bulb terminal voltage up to 13.8
> volts will almost double the light output (It doesn't double the power
> input. It merely moves more of the output from the infrared range to
> the visible range) and make it much more white. Very pleasing to the
> eye.
>
> You are properly concerned about the H4 light pattern being off. The
> reflector and lens is patterned to work with a line source of light.
> The HID bulb is almost a point source. I've tried to make the
> conversion work, both in headlights and in hand-held spotlights that
> use the H4 bulb. No joy. No amount of cutting or positioning can
> make up for the different emission geometry between the two.
>
> John
>
> On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:27:32 -0800, Paul Wallace
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Xenarc was making a dual beam (xenon high HID low) direct replacement
> >for the rectangular 6054 type sealed beam headlamps. They seem to have
> >discontinued these and are only making the little HID driving lamps now.
> > I should have purchased a set when I had the chance.
> >
> >The only way I can see to do this now is to get some of the Hella H4
> >conversion units that replace the rectangular sealed beam with a lens
> >and reflector unit that will take a dual beam H4 lamp. Then get an HID
> >conversion kit for the H4 bulbs. These bulbs have both the xenon and
> >HID lamps on a common base. The kits include the wiring harness and the
> >ballast for the HID. I am concerned that the lens and reflector of the
> >Hella unit will not aim the HID beam correctly, creating glare for the
> >on coming traffic.
> >
> >Does anyone have experience with these HID conversions?
> >
> >Paul Wallace
> >'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
> >
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
Emerson
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for converting 6054 type headlights to
HID
> In my opinion, these lights ought to be banned from the road - they blind
> me, and I'm sure I'm not alone!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
No Joe, you're NOT alone! They should be banned as well as the SUV's they
are on.High enough to BLAST you through the rear view mirror 100's of feet
away. I guess an aircraft landing light in the rear window? But yur only
making things WORSE! Just use the damn lights the car came with!
Seeya
Bob
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for converting 6054 type headlights
to
> HID
>
There are at least a couple of companies offering
> > new projector luninaries that look suspiciously like OEM spare parts
> > but they're expensive and not DOT approved as general purpose
> > headlamps.
> >
> > Speaking of DOT, they're urging states to crack down on aftermarket
> > HIDs because of the glare problem. I've read the letter the local
> > cops received last year on this topic. The local cops are not being
> > particularly chicken-sh*t about this but others may be. The letter
> > urges any "bluish headlights" to be checked out via a traffic stop.
> > Except for the listed OEMs, of course. The letter contains photos of
> > common ballasts to help identify HIDs.
> >
> > If power consumption is a problem and DOT compliance isn't and
> > preferably if you're operating off-road, you can buy aftermarket HIDs
> > from places like this:
> >
> > http://www.trailtech.net/racelight.htm
> >
> > Those are NOT DOT approved and the pattern isn't suitable for oncoming
> > traffic.
> >
> > Power consumption was a critical concern on my electric scooter. I
> > only had 55 watts of 13.8 volt power for lighting. The DC/DC
> > converter would not light a 55 watt halogen bulb (not enough inrush
> > capability) and a 35 watt bulb provided insufficient illumination for
> > safe riding. Plus, with only 30 ah of storage on-board, I really
> > didn't want to feed even 35 watts to the lighting system.
> >
> > I installed one of these:
> >
> > http://www.trailtech.net/motorcycle_hid_parts.htm
> >
> > This light is rated at 13 watts nom, 10 watts to the HID bulb. It
> > draws exactly 1 amp at 13.8 volts. The light output is essentially
> > equivalent to a 55 watt MR-16 halogen lamp.
> >
> > This luminare uses the Welch-Allyn Solarc short arc metal halide
> > system. They offer bulbs and ballasts in various sizes up to about
> > 100 watts. The 13 watt lamp/ballast combo is more expensive from W-A
> > than the whole fixture is from Trail Tech. Trail Tech sells the bulb
> > and ballast as spare parts but the price is around $80. The HID lamp
> > is mounted in a standard MR-16 reflector and in the projector version
> > I got, projects a very sharp edged round beam.
> >
> > I suggest upgrading the wiring to your existing lights. Short direct
> > runs of heavy gauge (8 or 10 gauge) wire directly from your DC/DC
> > converter to the headlights. Use a relay to switch the lights, said
> > relay operated by the existing headlight wiring. The dirt-cheap Bosch
> > SPST 30 amp sugar cube relay available from any car parts store is a
> > good choice.
> >
> > I've done a lot of these conversions for customers. I've never found
> > more than 12 volts at the bulb terminals and then only with the engine
> > running and the alternator at full voltage. More typical is something
> > in the 11 volt range. Bringing the bulb terminal voltage up to 13.8
> > volts will almost double the light output (It doesn't double the power
> > input. It merely moves more of the output from the infrared range to
> > the visible range) and make it much more white. Very pleasing to the
> > eye.
> >
> > You are properly concerned about the H4 light pattern being off. The
> > reflector and lens is patterned to work with a line source of light.
> > The HID bulb is almost a point source. I've tried to make the
> > conversion work, both in headlights and in hand-held spotlights that
> > use the H4 bulb. No joy. No amount of cutting or positioning can
> > make up for the different emission geometry between the two.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:27:32 -0800, Paul Wallace
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Xenarc was making a dual beam (xenon high HID low) direct replacement
> > >for the rectangular 6054 type sealed beam headlamps. They seem to have
> > >discontinued these and are only making the little HID driving lamps
now.
> > > I should have purchased a set when I had the chance.
> > >
> > >The only way I can see to do this now is to get some of the Hella H4
> > >conversion units that replace the rectangular sealed beam with a lens
> > >and reflector unit that will take a dual beam H4 lamp. Then get an HID
> > >conversion kit for the H4 bulbs. These bulbs have both the xenon and
> > >HID lamps on a common base. The kits include the wiring harness and
the
> > >ballast for the HID. I am concerned that the lens and reflector of the
> > >Hella unit will not aim the HID beam correctly, creating glare for the
> > >on coming traffic.
> > >
> > >Does anyone have experience with these HID conversions?
> > >
> > >Paul Wallace
> > >'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
> > >
> > ---
> > John De Armond
> > See my website for my current email address
> > http://www.johngsbbq.com
> > Cleveland, Occupied TN
> > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> Emerson
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree, they are a menace, even as OEM.
About upping the voltage to standard halogens - I re-wired my old
car's headlight circuits a few years ago, running them off a fuse and
relay directly from the alternator, and noticed that it now needs the
bulbs replacing about twice as often. But they are brighter without
dazzling other road users, so I've kept it like that.
On 3/3/06, Joe Strubhar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In my opinion, these lights ought to be banned from the road - they blind
> me, and I'm sure I'm not alone!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for converting 6054 type headlights to
> HID
>
>
> > yeah, significant experience. Enough to know that halogen lamps
> > SUPPLIED WITH THE PROPER VOLTAGE are far superior except where power
> > consumption is a very big concern. The problem is that few if any OEM
> > wiring systems get the proper voltage to the lamps.
> >
> > AFIK, there are no DOT-approved aftermarket HID lights available. At
> > least there weren't last time I did a survey at the end of summer.
> >
> > The market is hot for OEM projector HID lamps salvaged from wrecks but
> > major fabrication is required to fit them to cars not originally
> > designed for them. There are at least a couple of companies offering
> > new projector luninaries that look suspiciously like OEM spare parts
> > but they're expensive and not DOT approved as general purpose
> > headlamps.
> >
> > Speaking of DOT, they're urging states to crack down on aftermarket
> > HIDs because of the glare problem. I've read the letter the local
> > cops received last year on this topic. The local cops are not being
> > particularly chicken-sh*t about this but others may be. The letter
> > urges any "bluish headlights" to be checked out via a traffic stop.
> > Except for the listed OEMs, of course. The letter contains photos of
> > common ballasts to help identify HIDs.
> >
> > If power consumption is a problem and DOT compliance isn't and
> > preferably if you're operating off-road, you can buy aftermarket HIDs
> > from places like this:
> >
> > http://www.trailtech.net/racelight.htm
> >
> > Those are NOT DOT approved and the pattern isn't suitable for oncoming
> > traffic.
> >
> > Power consumption was a critical concern on my electric scooter. I
> > only had 55 watts of 13.8 volt power for lighting. The DC/DC
> > converter would not light a 55 watt halogen bulb (not enough inrush
> > capability) and a 35 watt bulb provided insufficient illumination for
> > safe riding. Plus, with only 30 ah of storage on-board, I really
> > didn't want to feed even 35 watts to the lighting system.
> >
> > I installed one of these:
> >
> > http://www.trailtech.net/motorcycle_hid_parts.htm
> >
> > This light is rated at 13 watts nom, 10 watts to the HID bulb. It
> > draws exactly 1 amp at 13.8 volts. The light output is essentially
> > equivalent to a 55 watt MR-16 halogen lamp.
> >
> > This luminare uses the Welch-Allyn Solarc short arc metal halide
> > system. They offer bulbs and ballasts in various sizes up to about
> > 100 watts. The 13 watt lamp/ballast combo is more expensive from W-A
> > than the whole fixture is from Trail Tech. Trail Tech sells the bulb
> > and ballast as spare parts but the price is around $80. The HID lamp
> > is mounted in a standard MR-16 reflector and in the projector version
> > I got, projects a very sharp edged round beam.
> >
> > I suggest upgrading the wiring to your existing lights. Short direct
> > runs of heavy gauge (8 or 10 gauge) wire directly from your DC/DC
> > converter to the headlights. Use a relay to switch the lights, said
> > relay operated by the existing headlight wiring. The dirt-cheap Bosch
> > SPST 30 amp sugar cube relay available from any car parts store is a
> > good choice.
> >
> > I've done a lot of these conversions for customers. I've never found
> > more than 12 volts at the bulb terminals and then only with the engine
> > running and the alternator at full voltage. More typical is something
> > in the 11 volt range. Bringing the bulb terminal voltage up to 13.8
> > volts will almost double the light output (It doesn't double the power
> > input. It merely moves more of the output from the infrared range to
> > the visible range) and make it much more white. Very pleasing to the
> > eye.
> >
> > You are properly concerned about the H4 light pattern being off. The
> > reflector and lens is patterned to work with a line source of light.
> > The HID bulb is almost a point source. I've tried to make the
> > conversion work, both in headlights and in hand-held spotlights that
> > use the H4 bulb. No joy. No amount of cutting or positioning can
> > make up for the different emission geometry between the two.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:27:32 -0800, Paul Wallace
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Xenarc was making a dual beam (xenon high HID low) direct replacement
> > >for the rectangular 6054 type sealed beam headlamps. They seem to have
> > >discontinued these and are only making the little HID driving lamps now.
> > > I should have purchased a set when I had the chance.
> > >
> > >The only way I can see to do this now is to get some of the Hella H4
> > >conversion units that replace the rectangular sealed beam with a lens
> > >and reflector unit that will take a dual beam H4 lamp. Then get an HID
> > >conversion kit for the H4 bulbs. These bulbs have both the xenon and
> > >HID lamps on a common base. The kits include the wiring harness and the
> > >ballast for the HID. I am concerned that the lens and reflector of the
> > >Hella unit will not aim the HID beam correctly, creating glare for the
> > >on coming traffic.
> > >
> > >Does anyone have experience with these HID conversions?
> > >
> > >Paul Wallace
> > >'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
> > >
> > ---
> > John De Armond
> > See my website for my current email address
> > http://www.johngsbbq.com
> > Cleveland, Occupied TN
> > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> Emerson
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
