EV Digest 5241
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything"
More Stuff.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Fw:Suspensions. WAS ,
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change
everything" More Stuff.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change
everything" More Stuff.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) brake drag
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything" More
Stuff.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything" More
Stuff.
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- 'This could change
everything' More Stuff.
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Fw:Suspensions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Suspensions. WAS , New electric motocross bike by Electricross
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Speaking of Attachments... A Bizzare Design Idea
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything" More
Stuff.
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Suspensions. WAS , New electric motocross bike by Electricross
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Fw: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Motor wiring
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Suspensions. WAS , New electric motocross bike by Electricross
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Motor wireing
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: brake drag
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Speaking of Attachments... A Bizarre Design Idea
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: brake drag
by Darin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Speaking of Attachments... A Bizzare Design Idea
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on Even more power?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Speaking of Attachments... A Bizzare Design Idea
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ellis wrote:
> You know, one of the comments on that page had an interesting point:
>
>
> *There has been a bit of self-aggrandisement going here on at the cost
of
> other people's dignity. How entropy works in the real world is sublte,
and
> a
> lot of smart people, of all ages, may not understand why this idea
might
> not
> work. *
<snip>
> *When I read Bob's letter I cringed. I knew that as soon as I scrolled
> down
> there would be post after post of mock incredulity, excoriation, and
> lament
> over the state of high school physics. Perpetal motion machines
constantly
> appear in new forms because new batches of inventors are introducing
> themselves homebuilt technologies. Proposals like Bob's deserve
respect
> because they carry the spirit of homebrew science.*
>
> *Posted by: HamboneMalone on March 02, 2006 at 10:11 PM*
It's an interesting thought. Basically that discouraging the over-unity
whackos discourages creativity, the "spirit of homebrew science".
The problem is that there are not different kinds of science. There is
no Intelligent Design science, no new age science, no "homebrew
science". There is only science. You base your pursuit on facts others
have proven. You back up your claims with facts that others can
confirm. Anything else is not science. Science is not to be bent to
our will. End of story.
Laws of man: You can drive on a highway with a 55 mph speed limit at 75
mph and get to your destination faster. You might get caught, you might
not.
Laws of nature: You can drive over the edge of a cliff at 75 mph. Your
trajectory *will* be parabolic. I can tell you *precisely* where you
will hit. No exceptions.
If the owner of this new "technology" can explain why his device does
not violate Tromley's 2nd law* and agrees to submit it to others who can
duplicate his claims, I will be *very* interested. So will the rest of
the world. Until then, he's just another whacko who makes EVers
everywhere look like lunatics. I wish they'd stop.
Chris
* At a former employer I was an ME doing electronics packaging for
aircraft instrumentation. The ratio of EEs to MEs was about 10:1. The
attitude among many of the EEs was that ME stuff was almost trivial -
and if there was something you really needed help on, well, just go down
to the hardware store and ask the guy at the counter.
After much time and effort I was able to raise ME esteem a bit, in part
with Tromley's three laws:
1. Everything has to fit somewhere.
2. Everything comes from somewhere.
3. There is only one hour in an hour.
:-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you missed the point. This person wasn't an "over-unity
whacko." He was a reader who thought of an idea and asked the community if
it would work. Rather than make fun of the guy, the community should say
something like, "That's a really good question, one that many people have
asked. Unfortunately the universe doesn't let us get energy for free....
etc.etc."
Mocking the guy (who might be a 12 year old for all we know) just teaches
him not to share his ideas. It could discourage him from studying science in
high school or university. It gives people who know some science a rep as
jerks. Bob might go on to become another anti-science voter.
-Mike
On 3/8/06, Christopher Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's an interesting thought. Basically that discouraging the over-unity
> whackos discourages creativity, the "spirit of homebrew science".
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:08 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote:
<< SNIP >>
After much time and effort I was able to raise ME esteem a bit, in part
with Tromley's three laws:
1. Everything has to fit somewhere.
2. Everything comes from somewhere.
3. There is only one hour in an hour.
:-)
Number three is definitely in conflict with relativity.:)
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These days there's no telling what is possible and what isn't. OK, you
can't make energy for free and no battery additive is going to make a
lead acid battery store 10x more energy. But there's nothing that says
a capacitor which stores energy on yet another completely different
scale isn't possible. What Maxwell did with Ultracaps already shattered
conceptions of what is possible once.
I believe "titinate" is a mispelling of "titanate", which I assume is a
molecule with titanium in it. Not clear on who did the misspelling.
EEStor is being notoriously secretive. I doubt you will find anyone who
had done anything with this company who is able to comment on it. They
sound smart enough to make strong NDAs and simply not deal with anyone
who might talk.
The secretive part does sound kinda promising. Scams may be secretive
about what's "under the hood" but are shameless self-promoters. The
self-promo is essential to taking investor's money, and EEStor doesn't
seem to be doing this.
On the lighter (mostly fictional) side, a capacitor like this makes me
think back to "Back To The Future", the idea of absorbing power from a
lightning bolt. If you did have a cap bank with enough current capacity
and energy storage, there's actually a remotely realistic concept that
you could indeed capture a substantial amount of energy off a lightning
bolt. One could actually make a plan to try to attract lightning to
charge a cap in milliseconds and send it back out to the grid over
minutes or hours. Well, in theory at least. Attracting lighting is a
trick too and not many spots on Earth see the right conditions with
great frequency. And at this time it's difficult to find the Unobtanium
needed for the capacitor plates.
Danny
Bob Rice wrote:
Hmmmm April 1 is a bit
away. However is anyone on the list working with this company?????
Lawrence Rhodes.....
Hi EVerybody;
Whathehell IS a Titinate,
anyhow?Critter from Star Wars?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd just like to flip a switch and have both wheels lock and an electric
centerstand fold out. I've ridden heavy bikes and still haven't found a way
to get one up on the centerstand without looking very awkward.
--------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:09:33 -0700 (MST)
Subject: RE: Fw:Suspensions. WAS ,
New electric motocross bike by Electricross
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Yup, replace a simple kickstand with something that does the same function
while wasting lots of energy. Kind of useless once the "neato" factor
wears off.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:02 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote:
These days there's no telling what is possible and what isn't. OK, you
can't make energy for free and no battery additive is going to make a lead
acid battery store 10x more energy. But there's nothing that says a
capacitor which stores energy on yet another completely different scale
isn't possible. What Maxwell did with Ultracaps already shattered
conceptions of what is possible once.
I believe "titinate" is a mispelling of "titanate", which I assume is a
molecule with titanium in it. Not clear on who did the misspelling.
Put (titinate) into Google and you get the "Did you mean: titanate", (I
wish I could put Google's spell checker into MSword).
Click on that and you get a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanate
which gives a rather circular definition.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's definitely what I was thinking of, thank you. I'm sure I read
that it could drive into the wind with no engine power. By the way
that description reminds me of the film "The Life Aquatic with Steve
Zissou" :)
Regards
Evan
On 3/8/06, Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Are you talking about Mister Cousteau (well known french diver)boat named
> "Alcyone" and equiped with 2 "turbo-voile" ?
>
> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ac-creteil.fr%2Flycees%2F77%2Flafayettechampagne%2Finfo%2Fsite_internet_tpe1s_V2%2Ftpe%25202005%2F2%2520Remplacement%2520energie%2520petroliere%2Fchez-brieuc%2FPages%2520Webs%2Ftpemaritimeturbovoile.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:02 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote:
Click on that and you get a link to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanate which gives a rather circular
definition.
Have a look at this, it may be more helpful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_constant
Have a look at the chart on the right.
Of course I may have to build 3000V controllers to use the caps. For
such benefits it would be worth it.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forgive me if this seems simplistic, but when hunting for efficiency,
we are frequently told to "check for dragging brakes!" I agree, but
exactly what does one do to reduce/eliminate the problem of dragging
brakes if you find it? As a little background, I've never worked on
brakes except to change a couple of disc brake pads.
I'm sure I'll have to mess with this when I get rolling, so I was
wondering exactly what to do to correct the problem.
TIA,
Dave Brandt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check this out: www.esma-cap.com/
They call these super capacitors, not ultra capacitors. They work something
like a battery that has a electrolyte in it, but they can be charge at in
minutes.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything"
More Stuff.
> These days there's no telling what is possible and what isn't. OK, you
> can't make energy for free and no battery additive is going to make a
> lead acid battery store 10x more energy. But there's nothing that says
> a capacitor which stores energy on yet another completely different
> scale isn't possible. What Maxwell did with Ultracaps already shattered
> conceptions of what is possible once.
>
> I believe "titinate" is a mispelling of "titanate", which I assume is a
> molecule with titanium in it. Not clear on who did the misspelling.
>
> EEStor is being notoriously secretive. I doubt you will find anyone who
> had done anything with this company who is able to comment on it. They
> sound smart enough to make strong NDAs and simply not deal with anyone
> who might talk.
>
> The secretive part does sound kinda promising. Scams may be secretive
> about what's "under the hood" but are shameless self-promoters. The
> self-promo is essential to taking investor's money, and EEStor doesn't
> seem to be doing this.
>
> On the lighter (mostly fictional) side, a capacitor like this makes me
> think back to "Back To The Future", the idea of absorbing power from a
> lightning bolt. If you did have a cap bank with enough current capacity
> and energy storage, there's actually a remotely realistic concept that
> you could indeed capture a substantial amount of energy off a lightning
> bolt. One could actually make a plan to try to attract lightning to
> charge a cap in milliseconds and send it back out to the grid over
> minutes or hours. Well, in theory at least. Attracting lighting is a
> trick too and not many spots on Earth see the right conditions with
> great frequency. And at this time it's difficult to find the Unobtanium
> needed for the capacitor plates.
>
> Danny
>
> Bob Rice wrote:
>
> >>Hmmmm April 1 is a bit
> >>away. However is anyone on the list working with this company?????
> >>Lawrence Rhodes.....
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Hi EVerybody;
> >
> >Whathehell IS a Titinate,
> >anyhow?Critter from Star Wars?
> >
> >
> > Seeya
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Mar 08, 2006 at 01:10:14PM -0800, Otmar wrote:
> Of course I may have to build 3000V controllers to use the caps. For
> such benefits it would be worth it.
Would the risk of electrocution in a car running a 3000V system increase
significantly?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, March 8, 2006 3:10 pm, Otmar said:
> Of course I may have to build 3000V controllers to use the caps. For
> such benefits it would be worth it.
At that kind of voltage, I suspect that building EVs would become an
utterly different sort of thing ... paranoia would rule the day, and I
doubt there'd be many who would even want to touch such a system unless
the entire battery pack and its connection to other devices were
completely packaged, maintenance-free for life, and certified safe.
Perhaps the controller and charger would become integrated into the
battery pack, so the only wiring you'd need to run would be the
comparatively manageable mains and motor loop voltages.
Pack contactors would be amusing.
If this is our future, we might as well get started thinking about it :o)
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<< The best design I have would be a fully enclosed 2 wheel motorcycle that
balances by gyroscope. I had the idea way before Segway. Do the same thing
except put the wheels front to back to handle hard acceleration without
leaning fore and aft. Those vacuum gyroscopes are just incredible and the
cost really shouldn't be that much. I imagine the software development
would be the big cost.
Think about a motorcycle that just balances there when you park it.
Neal >>>
I vaguely remember something from physics class called "procession" (sic?),
which had to do with a gyro causing an opposite reaction to movements, so
riding a gyro-stabilized bike into a turn might be pretty hairy.
I'd rather have a feet-forward design with lower panels that swing open when you
take your feet off the foot rests, and a plain old center stand.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 8, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Neal Saiki wrote:
Thanks for the support!
I've thought about a trike design a lot, but the seeing what happened
to
Corbin makes me flinch.
Corbin apparently ignored a lot of good advice from this list. Just
don't make that mistake again :)
The best design I have would be a fully enclosed 2 wheel motorcycle
that
balances by gyroscope. I had the idea way before Segway. Do the same
thing
except put the wheels front to back to handle hard acceleration without
leaning fore and aft. Those vacuum gyroscopes are just incredible and
the
cost really shouldn't be that much. I imagine the software development
would be the big cost.
Think about a motorcycle that just balances there when you park it.
It can *sense* if it's balanced or not, but how does it *keep* itself
balanced? The Segway rolls backwards and forwards to compensate for
tilting. The motorcycle would need to be able to swing a pendulum, or
twist its handlebars, or both. Or put down its kickstand, or training
wheels.
I haven't done (and can't do) the math, but it seems like the pendulum
would need to be fairly massive in comparison to the weight of the
bike. Perhaps some or all of the battery pack could be used?
Neal
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 7, 2006, at 10:48 AM, Meta Bus wrote:
Background--
I have two electric buses that I bought as surplus. They are the same
model, 22' shuttles from the now defunct AVS of Chattanooga. I
originally bought the extra bus for parts, intending to make one bus
into a (smallish) electric RV. But I am not satisfied with the limited
living and work space that a 22-footer provides.
Bring along a tent, or a tent trailer? Add some bump-outs? Retrofit
the powertrain(s) to a schoolbus? Live in a VW camper while you do
your conversion, and then marvel at all the space in your finished RV?
Stop being so materialistic, cast off your possessions, and learn to
live more lightly on the planet? Cut off the rear end of bus A and
weld it to the back of bus B, then cut off the front of bus B and weld
bus B to where you cut the rear end off of bus A?
Turn this:
AAAAAA BBBBBB
O O O O
into this:
AABBBBBBAAAA
O O O
with a leftover
B
O
Gotta be easier than the pushmepullyou idea.
So, after considering many other ideas, I've arrived at my favorite--
Design Idea--
I want to reconfigure the rear of each bus (repositioning high-voltage
junction boxes and various other components), and weld the rear of the
buses together, which would give me--
1) a single 45-foot bus, which would have a driver's seat & dash at
both ends
Would they both work? Could you drive straight into a parking place
and then drive right out without turning or backing up?
2) Four (4) Solectria AV-55 drive motors and drive wheels in the (new)
center
How would you get to them for maintenance? The rear of the vehicles
will be butted up against each other, blocking their engine bays,
right?
3) Steering gear/wheels at both ends (linked for coordinated/inverse
steering)
This is the thing that bothers me the most. What about caster
settings? Driving this thing would be like trying to back up while
flat-towing a vehicle. The steering wants to slam one direction or the
other. The rear of the bus would want to swing violently to one side
or the other, unless you locked it down good and hard. (Can this be
minimized or eliminated with an adjustment? Can it be changed from the
inside of the vehicle before changing the polarity of the bus? I don't
know.)
What about coordinating the steering, which needs different settings at
different speeds? At low speeds you want the rear wheels to turn
*opposite* the front ones to shorten your turning radius. At high
speeds you want the rear wheels to turn *with* the front wheels, so you
can drift from lane to lane instead of suddenly swapping ends. (I
guess with this vehicle you could run really quick to the new front and
continue driving....) Intermediate speeds demand intermediate
settings. Lots of experimentation, which sounds dangerous. Perhaps
this can be made easier by not worrying about the velocity but by
sensing steering wheel angle. Slight angle changes usually mean higher
speeds. So when you start to turn, the rear wheels begin to turn in
the same direction as the front. As you continue to turn the steering
wheel, the rear wheels return to center, then turn opposite the front
wheels.
You'd obviously need some complicated linkages, or a steer-by-wire
system.
4) 100 total 8G31T Deka batteries, 4 Solectria 440 UMOC controllers
At startup, I would have a laptop or other onboard computer with which
to soft-reverse the controllers' outputs (to determine which direction
is forward), and I would be able to switch motor/controller directions
while in "neutral".
______________________________________
/__|__|__|__|__| ]<>[ |__|__|__|__| \
{__________________]__[______________|--}
O metabus O O O
My friends are scoffing at the idea, but I think it should work great,
if executed correctly. Although the resulting two-headed monster might
look strange, it appeals to me more than some alternatives (towing one
as a trailer, etc.).
I am concerned about the wheelbase, as the drive-wheel pairs will be
about 4 feet apart, but I am hoping the steerable "rear" wheels would
mitigate the skid-factor.
Unless the bus can bend in the middle, you will have a skid problem.
Draw the circles traced by the steering wheels front and back and
observe what happens to the center wheels. This will cost you beaucoup
range, I think.
Are there any other obvious design flaws that come to mind?
If you drive through a dip in the road, you might end up stuck with
your driving wheels suspended above the pavement. Conversely, if you
go over a hill, you end up with your steering wheels off the ground.
Regards, and TIA for comments,
Jim
Well, it's certainly audacious. I personally don't see how you can
pull it off with a rigid connection between the buses. I agree with
Neon John that you need to articulate the joint. It needs to bend
(yaw) around corners, and it needs to flex (pitch) to go over hills and
through valleys, and it needs to allow some twist (roll) for going over
uneven pavement or turning into sloped driveways. Maybe you can find a
retired articulating bus, and steal the mechanism and/or design? Or
just DIY with a beefy trailer hitch and canvas sides and top.
But then, what do I know? I have no idea what I'm talking about. It's
fun to speculate, though - thanks for the exercise.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 8, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
On the lighter (mostly fictional) side, a capacitor like this makes me
think back to "Back To The Future", the idea of absorbing power from a
lightning bolt. If you did have a cap bank with enough current
capacity and energy storage, there's actually a remotely realistic
concept that you could indeed capture a substantial amount of energy
off a lightning bolt. One could actually make a plan to try to
attract lightning to charge a cap in milliseconds and send it back out
to the grid over minutes or hours. Well, in theory at least.
The lightning bolt is what happens when the charge differential between
the ground and the clouds has built up to the point where it can jump
across the gap. IN THEORY, you don't need to wait for the lightning
bolt - just siphon off the charge differential at whatever rate is
convenient, using a wire on a balloon or something of the sort.
Attracting lighting is a trick too and not many spots on Earth see the
right conditions with great frequency. And at this time it's
difficult to find the Unobtanium needed for the capacitor plates.
You could trigger a lightning bolt with a small rocket trailing a wire,
<http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/
rocket_lightning_030130.html>
or possibly with a big laser that punches an ionized column of air
right through the cloud.
Getting further off-topic, this is one of the concerns attendant on the
construction of a space elevator - that it will short-circuit
electrical storms and either damage the elevator or screw up the
Earth's weather patterns.
Danny
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How do you compensate if someone "bumps" the bike?
Does it compensate and "whack" the person of part
of its "overcompensation" until it settles back to
"normal"
Someone needs a real solid understanding of PID
controllers to understand gyros...
Also, I would agree that you need to turn the
system off and lock the weight at "dead center"
while riding the bike...
Doug Weathers wrote:
On Mar 8, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Neal Saiki wrote:
Thanks for the support!
I've thought about a trike design a lot, but the seeing what happened to
Corbin makes me flinch.
Corbin apparently ignored a lot of good advice from this list. Just
don't make that mistake again :)
The best design I have would be a fully enclosed 2 wheel motorcycle that
balances by gyroscope. I had the idea way before Segway. Do the same
thing
except put the wheels front to back to handle hard acceleration without
leaning fore and aft. Those vacuum gyroscopes are just incredible and
the
cost really shouldn't be that much. I imagine the software development
would be the big cost.
Think about a motorcycle that just balances there when you park it.
It can *sense* if it's balanced or not, but how does it *keep* itself
balanced? The Segway rolls backwards and forwards to compensate for
tilting. The motorcycle would need to be able to swing a pendulum, or
twist its handlebars, or both. Or put down its kickstand, or training
wheels.
I haven't done (and can't do) the math, but it seems like the pendulum
would need to be fairly massive in comparison to the weight of the
bike. Perhaps some or all of the battery pack could be used?
Neal
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote:
From: "Mike Chancey" >
<SNIP>
This looks good , and their is one bad boy , under some control ,
with booster chair , there now ,. Where would I send a drawling
( bad boy choked on micro wave oven transformer ) to .
Just email it to me and I will load it up. Include any text you want with it.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph wrote:
This information will be useful but I wonder if having Total Electric Miles
will sentence you to make constant changes as people update their vehicle's
information? Even just a once-per-year update by most people on the list
makes several hundred updates for you. Or is this something people will be
able to update on their own?
We are hoping to make much of the site user driven. I will still
review edit and approve, but not nearly so much hands on effort will
be required.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 12:49 AM, John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
John wrote:
I have been puzzled something for a while regarding wiring diagrams
I have seen.
Let's see if I can help clear it up for you.
snip John W's text of clarity describing the high side versus low side
switching controllers...
.... The difference is, that the Zilla also has a built in shunt for
measuring motor loop current. Inside the controller, the shunt has one
side connected to the battery negative terminal, with the other end of
the shunt being the M- terminal that feeds the motor its battery
negative.
I had not heard of this this before and not seen it in the manual
(however I can only aspire to be electrically literate at this point,
so I could have read it and not understood it.)
more snip
The Hairball also controls controller precharge and automatic
engagement of the line contactor. The Hairball also protects against a
myriad of problems that other lesser controller systems don't even
address. The Zilla controller operates silently, too. With a Zilla
under your hood, the only squeal you'll hear will be from the tires!
So it sounds like I just follow the diagram in the manual when wiring
my conversion that relies on the transmission for reverse, and go on my
merry way ignorantly marveling at the sophistication of the
Zilla/Hairball combination.
For the exact info, go here to read the owner's manual:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/zilla/Html/HB2Man.html
One of those came in the box with the Zilla/Hairball, however just
because I read it doesn't mean I understand it 8-)
Before I connect any actual wires to anything I think I will have to
post a wiring diagram for review.
Thanks
John O'Connor
Waiting for spring to get back to real work on my conversion.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
> Corbin apparently ignored a lot of good advice from this list.
> Just don't make that mistake again :)
Not just the EV list; I get the impression Corbin ignored *all* EV
history and experience.
>> a fully enclosed 2 wheel motorcycle that balances by gyroscope.
> It can *sense* if it's balanced or not, but how does it *keep*
> itself balanced? The Segway rolls backwards and forwards to
> compensate for tilting. The motorcycle would need to be able to
> swing a pendulum, or twist its handlebars, or both. Or put down
> its kickstand, or training wheels.
The Segway picked just about the hardest way to balance itself. There
are lots of other ways to make a self-balancing 2-wheeled vehicle. My
BEST kids (4th-6th graders; see www.bestoutreach.org) came up with half
a dozen, and actually built and drove the one they liked the best.
- Two large diameter wheels, side-by-side, with the center of gravity
below their axle.
- Bicycle arrangement, but with the back wheel wide enough to keep
it standing up. The vehicle still leans into a turn, but the rear
suspension moves to keep the wide rear wheel upright anyway.
- Bicycle arrangement, but with *both* front and back wheels wide and
rounded (barrel-shaped). Center of gravity below the apparent roll
center of the side-to-side radius of curvature of the tires.
- Two wheels side-by-side, but with their axles nearly horizontal;
wider at the top. The outer edges of the wheels run on the ground,
and the inner edges are a few inches above the ground. This one
balances so well you can easily stand on the platform without it
tipping over.
- A square "car" with only a right-front and left-rear wheel. Center
of gravity below the axles of the two wheels, so it self-balances
(but rocks diagonally). The left end of the front axle is a tiller
to steer it. This is the one they actually built.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland, Can you make an asci art discription of the 2 different
configurations. I can't see how the motor could of told that it was
being high side or low side switched or how that could make a difference.
also, where did the energy go?
180amps * 175 Volts = 31.5kw
but
200*45 only = 9kw ; 175 * 50 is 8750 so that seems reasonable for an
effiency of 97% (not bad!)
the zilla can put 950 amps for short periods on a 200V pack and 350
continuous. @ 175V that alone would be 61KW.
At 100% duty, at the low amperages you are mentioning, the zilla is not
in the circuit, battery and motor amps and volts would be the same. If I
was you I would step on the throttle the rest of the way. ;-)
Why would you hold the motor amps so low? It sounds like the GE motor
was wound different and you need to change gears for this comparison.
What I am getting at is could the difference in the motors be showing up
more than the controllers?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My simple start would be to take the calipers off and clean and lube all the
caliper sliding surfaces and also be sure the rotors are rust and scale free
and turned smooth. M. Young
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: brake drag
> Forgive me if this seems simplistic, but when hunting for efficiency,
> we are frequently told to "check for dragging brakes!" I agree, but
> exactly what does one do to reduce/eliminate the problem of dragging
> brakes if you find it? As a little background, I've never worked on
> brakes except to change a couple of disc brake pads.
>
> I'm sure I'll have to mess with this when I get rolling, so I was
> wondering exactly what to do to correct the problem.
>
> TIA,
>
> Dave Brandt
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
It's fun to speculate, though - thanks for the exercise.
Yes, and thanks Doug, John, et al for the thoughts & speculations--
I was going to keep this idea to myself, at least until I find out if I
am going to get the 48' garage I need, but I wanted to distract the list
from the NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE thread, which seemed to go on forever...
The plan was indeed to never get caught in a dead end without turnaround
space-- just walk the length of the bus to the other end, throwing the
directional switch as you go. That was an appealing theoretical feature.
A 40' floor plan was behind the idea of the welding frame-to-frame
(rear-to-rear)-- that is the only real feature gained, to have a single
unit that compared to those new million-dollar 45' coaches that are
produced by some custom houses. I'm actually thinking "resale value".
I considered articulation, a powered trailer, a range-extension trailer,
and various other schemes which allowed me to use all that I have in one
caravan across the country. I also considered a cut-and-paste approach,
and would still consider it if it were as easy as, well, cut-n-paste,
but I like the idea of paste-only. Hire one good welder.
I may eventually arrive at a kind of custom connection, with no bend at
the junction, with the capability of detachment (maybe an hour or two of
reconfiguration), or I may go with a simple hitched-while-traveling, and
connected-when-camped-out scheme.
There was one other practical motive for the rear-to-rear scheme-- both
of my buses have rear-end damage, sustained while they were in service,
and since I'll be doing body work back there anyway...
The steerable rearmost wheels pose a challenge, but also a reward. Turn
radii and maneuverability of traditional 45' coaches is restrictive, and
I am hoping the linkage can be worked out and provide a valued feature.
2) Four (4) Solectria AV-55 drive motors and drive wheels in the (new) center
How would you get to them for maintenance? The rear of the vehicles will be
butted up against each other, blocking their engine bays, right?
There is no real engine bay, and as these buses are currently designed,
I can't get to the motors without a lift or multiple jacks anyway.
The Capstone Microturbine is the one "engine", and that will still be
accessible. I would be repositioning some components from the original
AVS design, working from the interior outward, basically opening up the
backs of both buses to create a hallway between them, and relocating my
junction boxes and various controllers (power-steering/air compression).
John's comments about the drum brakes do concern me, as do the
drive-wheel hubs, which I am researching for directional concerns (these
buses have no differentials, just direct connection of the AC-55 to a
reduction hub). This is actually the design-breaker, making the
bidirectional two-headed monster impractical, if the torque hubs (with
their built-in drum brakes) cannot perform equally in both directions.
The frontmost and rearmost wheels are disc brakes, with independent air.
I may end up stripping down these buses to their monoque frames, and
applying new fiberglass/foam in a custom body, and if that happens, I
may end up with a more traditional wheelbase.
If I get my garage/workspace-- it's on!
Regards,
Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
last time i had disc brake drag on my ICE vehicle, it was a small amount
of corrosion on the piston itself preventing it from retracting
smoothly/fully. i tried cleaning them, which helped a little bit, but
not enough:
if i paid close attention, i could perceive the car coming to a definite
but gentle "stop" when pushed on a level surface, rather than coasting
down smoothly to zero.
i have also experienced the partial brake line collapse that someone
else described, which traps a small amount of pressure in the flexible
brake hose after each pedal application. replaced 2 calipers before i
figured that one out.
- darin.
--
mike young wrote:
My simple start would be to take the calipers off and clean and lube all the
caliper sliding surfaces and also be sure the rotors are rust and scale free
and turned smooth. M. Young
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Cut off the rear end of bus A and weld it to the back of
> bus B, then cut off the front of bus B and weld
> bus B to where you cut the rear end off of bus A?
>
> Turn this:
>
> AAAAAA BBBBBB
> O O O O
>
> into this:
>
> AABBBBBBAAAA
> O O O
Or slightly simpler:
AABBBBBAAAA
O O
That is, chop bus A into two and insert a good chunk taken from the
middle of bus B in between the two bits of A. I believe this is similar
to what Otmar did with his stretch Vanagon (took 2 and made one nearly
twice as long but still with a single front end and rear end).
Even easier may be to find yourself a 40ft bus to transplant the EVS
drivetrain into. It might even be possible to sell the pair of 22ft
shuttle chassis' (stripped of their EVS drivetrains, but possibly
refitted with standard diesel drivetrains) and come out ahead on the
deal.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This would make a nice drag vehicle energy source for
John,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11732814/
"It works by releasing 20 million amps of electricity
into a vertical array of very fine tungsten wires. The
wires dissolve into a cloud of charged particles, a
superheated gas called plasma."
A new level of Plasma-boy :-)
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I love this idea! And at the risk of countering the prevailing wisdom, I don't
think there's any problem with the steering - at least, not the
problem most have suggested. Look - this puppy's got non-steering wheels **in
the middle**. That means it has to pivot around an axis
between those two axles, which means the steerable wheels at both ends have to
turn exactly the same amount (in opposite directions, of
course.). A simple (if long) mechanical link should solve that. The real
problem is bumps and dips. It may be necessary to articulate the beast
in an up and down direction, at least.
--- End Message ---
