EV Digest 5240
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything" More
Stuff.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind
powered car blog)
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EVLN(Chinese EVs developed in Dalian) Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Fw:Suspensions. WAS , New electric motocross bike by Electricross
by "Neal Saiki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Dead NAPA Floodies (again)an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Dead NAPA Floodies (again)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Fw: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Fw:Suspensions. WAS , New electric motocross bike by
Electricross
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: New to Electric Motorcycle
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) The Taipei International Cycle Show -E-bikes TOO
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Dead NAPA Floodies (again)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) RE: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Fw:Suspensions. WAS ,
New electric motocross bike by Electricross
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Dead NAPA Floodies (again)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
> Whathehell IS a Titinate, anyhow?
It's the ceramic that all those little piezoelectric speakers are made
from. It's been around for 100 years.
> Nicads? Yeah! Great batteries, as somebody said. But hidiously
> expensive!
Lots of batteries are expensive to purchase initially. They are heavy,
and the materials have a significant cost per pound. However, if we had
a decent recycling system in place, you'd get that material cost back
when you recycled them. Coupled with their long life, nicads can be
*more* cost effective than lead-acids (the only battery that can do this
today!!
I worked with silver cells at Kodak. Very interesting batteries! They
powered the Lunar Rover, and were used in the GM Electrovair in the
1960's. High power and high energy density, but a rather short cycle
life. Silver is expensive BUT very easy to recycle.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You know, one of the comments on that page had an interesting point:
*There has been a bit of self-aggrandisement going here on at the cost of
other people's dignity. How entropy works in the real world is sublte, and a
lot of smart people, of all ages, may not understand why this idea might not
work. *
*Personally, I like the fact that people are still dreaming up perpetual
motion machines. The people behind these ideas are trying to come up with
novel solutions to age old problems, and if that isn't a major component of
the DIY ethos, I don't know what is. *
*Take Bob for an example. He's digested the information in the two articles,
and found inspiration in what he's read. He's looking for the next logical
step. He's thinking creatively by looking for a way to associate two
technologies together. But I think his most laudible action was to post his
proposal here. He took the idea to his peers. *
*When I read Bob's letter I cringed. I knew that as soon as I scrolled down
there would be post after post of mock incredulity, excoriation, and lament
over the state of high school physics. Perpetal motion machines constantly
appear in new forms because new batches of inventors are introducing
themselves homebuilt technologies. Proposals like Bob's deserve respect
because they carry the spirit of homebrew science.*
*Posted by: HamboneMalone on March 02, 2006 at 10:11 PM*
-Mike
On 3/7/06, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Life is funny, isn't it?
>
> I've always enjoyed Bruce's EVLN posts, and I read most all of them.
> It's a great service that I know most of us appreciate. I've always
> secretly wanted to have something I've done with EVs end up as one of
> Bruce's EVLN news bulletins. When White Zombie finally cracked the 100
> mph barrier in the 1/4 mile, or better still, when it posted it's 12.1
> second ET @ 106 mph, I was certain it would make the cut for being part
> of his EVLN bulletins. You know, something like 'EVLN (Street legal
> electric car breaks 100 mph in the 1/4 mile)'.....or......'EVLN (Street
> legal electric car runs 12 second 1/4 mile)', but nope! Nothing but
> tumble weeds blow'n by...not a peep, not a mention :-(
>
> Imagine then, how I felt having completely given up on ever having any
> of my EVs making the grade to be in an EVLN bulletin, when I scanned
> Bruce's latest EVLN listing and stumbled across this:
>
> >EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
> >[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> >informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> >--- {EVangel}
> >
> http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/03/wind_powered_electric_car.html
> >[Image of under the hood shot of Blue Meanie]
> >
> >
> You would use the electric power in the city, and on
> the highway you would use the windmill /fan inside a wind tunnel
> on top of your car. When the car gets up to a certain speed, you
> engage the the wind turbine to power the car, in effect setting
> it on cruise control. Would the 2 sources supply each other? The
> wind tunnel powering the motor, the motor making the car go so
> the fan can catch the wind?"
>
> Pictured here - John Wayland's battery powered "Blue Meanie" 1972
> Datsun.
>
>
> Having my EV associated with the goofy idea of perpetual motion, and god
> forbid, a 'windmill' atop my car, is just too much! Please, say it isn't
> so....please, make it go away :-(
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:13 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
Hi EVerybody;
Comments, from an old sailer, BOATS that is.
> A wind mill car should work. It works with sailboats to sail stright into
> the wind.
Like hell! EVerybody that sails KNOWS that you don't sail INTO the
wind, you have to " tack ' ACROSS the wind at about 30 degrees, IF you're
Well there is one way.
http://foxxaero.homestead.com/indrad_007.html
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:01 PM
Subject: EVLN(Chinese EVs developed in Dalian)
Hi EVerybody;
You read it first in the Peoples Daily! The Chinese , I'm sure, could
come up with an EV because they don't hafta deal with politics, or patents.
If somebody used THEIR patents, it would be their just do, as the Chinese
just help themselves to intelectual and other patents/ copyrights, as they
need of, or feel like it.
Their stuff makes for charming reading, though".Computers to replace
mechanic motors"Eaaah! A Micro Soft Car? Again?,Scary!Well, knock me over
with a milivolt, they even have a "Dalian Chunxiao Electric Car Research
Institute" Would be nice if we had a " Flint Electric Car Research
Institute" at GM, or Ford at Deer born, MI. Fill in the city of your choice.
The last paragraph the, Chinese have it right. We all KNOW that, though!
Not crazy about an automatic tranny, though.I think they should stick with
direct drive, but, whatthehell, with an Institute working on this,
maybe?Maybe the Chinese will come up with a better term in CHINESE than
Electric Pushed Vapor Wagon, A Car is a vapor wagon, gas ,of course ,for an
Electric, freely translated? An Electric car, "Dien Cha"is their word for a
trolley car. Silly stuff, I know. Same in Japanese.
Anybody in Dalien, on Monday? Drop over and check it out. I woulda gone
,had I won the Powerball<g>!Didn't say WHICH Monday, though.Mass production
of these cars, latter half of THIS year?? Hope they can make our Hiway crash
standards. Seems the GAS Chinesy cars couldn't, so far.No Geeleys, just yet,
and no Red Flag limos, sigh!The Chinese always come up with charming names
for all their products. A few years, spent in Taiwan ,I saw that. Japanese
too, Toyopets. Godzilla. For starters.
I wish the Chinese well, all kidding aside. They probably serious, over
there?
Seeya
Bob
> EVLN(Chinese EVs developed in Dalian)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://english.people.com.cn/200602/08/eng20060208_241051.html
> Environment-friendly electric cars developed in Dalian
>
> High-power electric bus, and sedan cars with automatic
> transmission have been successfully developed at Dalian Chunxiao
> Electric Car Research Institute and meet the public in northeast
> China's coastal city Dalian on Monday. With proprietary
> intellectual property rights, the electric cars employ computers
> to replace mechanic motors and omit exhaust pipes. Mass
> production of these cars will begin in the latter half of this
> year.
>
> The research of electric cars began in 1994 at Chunxiao, and
> researchers from the institute have obtained eight patents for
> electric cars. Compared with fuel-powered cars, electric cars are
> free from noise and pollution, and enjoy low cost and zero
> emission. The bus has a maximum speed of 120 kph, and sedan car's
> maximum speed hits 160 kph. The cost of operating the electric
> cars is 40 percent lower than fuel-powered ones.
> By People's Daily Online
>
>
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I may be wrong, but I don't think this was a Make "article." This was a blog
posting by a Make writer who got a question from a reader. He posted the
reader's question with the suggestion that someone do the math and see if it
would work.
-Mike
On 3/8/06, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Whatthehell is "Make" magazine, anyhow? Maybe I don't wanna know, with
> articles of that sort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
I revised the copy at
http://www.evdl.org/help/
Nice!
http://www.infoev.com/faq/index.ws4d
seems to be gone. ...
A copy of it is still up at http://www.evparts.com/faq/
(perhaps you could set up www.evdl.org/faq or faq.evdl.org or some such
to point to wherever the FAQ is currently hosted?)
I think Rod Wilde used to have evinfo.com too, but he'd have to clarify
that...
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the support!
I've thought about a trike design a lot, but the seeing what happened to
Corbin makes me flinch.
The best design I have would be a fully enclosed 2 wheel motorcycle that
balances by gyroscope. I had the idea way before Segway. Do the same thing
except put the wheels front to back to handle hard acceleration without
leaning fore and aft. Those vacuum gyroscopes are just incredible and the
cost really shouldn't be that much. I imagine the software development
would be the big cost.
Think about a motorcycle that just balances there when you park it.
Neal
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Rice [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 6:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fw:Suspensions. WAS , New electric motocross bike by
Electricross
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neal Saiki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:44 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: New electric motocross bike by Electricross
> Well it's probably not a good idea to argue with someone who sounds like
> they know everything, but I'll do it once.
Snip a bit!> > Let's hear it!<g>!
Warning, shameless promotion ahead!!!
>
> 5) Although I do understand a bit of healthy skepticism, I didn't get to
be
> one of the top mountain bike suspension designers in the world by
producing
> vaporware. Mountain Biking magazine just picked my mountain bike
suspension
> design as bike of the year. My bike designs have sold 10+million dollars
> worldwide. Now I'm bringing that manufacturing power to an industry that
> sorely needs it. Keep an open mind and see for yourself.
>
> Neal
>
> Way to Go Neal!! We NEED your expertise here1 Welcome to the Wonderful
World of EV's. You may get a few jabs on here, but for the EV Bike crowd,
you will be welcome. Say, any ideas for a light easy to build functional
suspension for a light 1200 lb 3 wheeler CAR, or enclosed motorcycle type
vehicle. Do hit me back on or off List, if ya would. Two in front, and power
from the rear wheel, setup.Sorry, couldn't resist, reading your credentials!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:54 AM
Subject: Dead NAPA Floodies (again)
>
> Hello Everybody:
>
> I feel like an idiot and my local NAPA store is unable to provide new
> batteries at the rate they die in my truck. This morning, I found another
> dead cell in a battery that was just 3 months old.
>
> I am using a Zivan charger. I monitored the charging process with my
> E-Meter and found it to be in the envelope (approx. 190V max Voltage for a
> 144V nominal system). I just don't have any idea. While I ordered new
> Trojans, I am afraid that there is a problem with my system that will
> effect those Trojans too. I am afraid I am ending up killing my new
> Trojans as well.
>
> I never draw currents > 350A and I never discharge my batteries beyond
> 50%. One would think, those batteries should have a good life in my truck.
> But alas, they either commit suicide or they are being killed by something
> I am doing.
>
> _ANY_ input is appreciated.
>
> Michaela
>
> Hi Michaela;
Gees! Louise! Sounds like crappy batteries to me. NAPA? Well at least
they honor their gaurantee, but it gets old replacing the damn batteries
every few weaks!. My T 105's woulda thought they had died and gone to
cellulier heaven, with your conditions. My first set of USED Trojans, I beat
the shit out of. Ran then dead, til the car would bairly move, demanded and
got more than 500 amps, I don't know as the meter was pinned, with my
contacter, no current limit, controller. Seems like you would get decent
life from GOOD batteries. I used a homemade Bad Boy variac rectunfyer
setup,or a Fair Radio Charger the first few years of my Rabbit. Those used
cells stuck around for about 20k miles.As they died, I threw in replacments,
beat them to death, too.
As for a Zivon, never met one, but I'm sure it isn't killing the
batteries? Anybody else running Zivon's? Comments?If you arent boiling the
charged cells, but I think you thought of that, setting the finishiong
voltage and amps. Should taper off to, say, maybe an amp or so.?
My thinking is that with a good set of Trojans, you will drive off into
the sunset, and BACK again, EV grin intact?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car
blog)
> At 09:13 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote:
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
> > Hi EVerybody;
> >
> > Comments, from an old sailer, BOATS that is.
> >
> > > A wind mill car should work. It works with sailboats to sail stright
into
> > > the wind.
> >
> > Like hell! EVerybody that sails KNOWS that you don't sail INTO the
> >wind, you have to " tack ' ACROSS the wind at about 30 degrees, IF you're
>
> Well there is one way.
> http://foxxaero.homestead.com/indrad_007.html
>
> Hey thanks for the Link! Wonder if that could be scaled up for cruise and
container ships?Not to mention all the E power while parked, oops, moored.
Jerry Dycus, chek it out<g>!Something I believe ya mentioned, a while back.
?
Sea Ya
Bob
> __________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Container ships are being developed that can deploy sails. They look like
enormous parachutes.
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2005/09/skysail_the_kit.html
-Mike
On 3/8/06, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered
> car
> blog)
>
>
> > At 09:13 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote:
> >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:04 AM
> > >Subject: Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
> > > Hi EVerybody;
> > >
> > > Comments, from an old sailer, BOATS that is.
> > >
> > > > A wind mill car should work. It works with sailboats to sail
> stright
> into
> > > > the wind.
> > >
> > > Like hell! EVerybody that sails KNOWS that you don't sail INTO
> the
> > >wind, you have to " tack ' ACROSS the wind at about 30 degrees, IF
> you're
> >
> > Well there is one way.
> > http://foxxaero.homestead.com/indrad_007.html
> >
> > Hey thanks for the Link! Wonder if that could be scaled up for cruise
> and
> container ships?Not to mention all the E power while parked, oops, moored.
> Jerry Dycus, chek it out<g>!Something I believe ya mentioned, a while
> back.
> ?
>
> Sea Ya
>
> Bob
> > __________
> > Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> _ANY_ input is appreciated.
Is there any possibility that the batteries you were provided are
flooded *starting* batteries rather than deep-cycle? SLI batteries will
last only something like 50 or so cycles in deep-cycle service, which is
consistent with you finding a[nother] bad cell after just 3 months use.
It seems difficult to believe that you could kill cells in proper deep
cycle batteries in just 3 months without doing something fairly
dramatic.
190V peak on a 144V string is 2.64V/cell, which is reasonable for the
constant current finish phase performed by a Zivan. What was the charge
current at this time? How often are you having to check/add water to
the batteries? How much water are you adding, and it is distilled,
isn't it?
To kill deep cycle batteries this quickly, you would have to be doing
something drastic; even discharging to 100% DOD every cycle, they would
last more than 3 months of daily use (~90-100 cycles) if recharged
properly. If overcharged, you should have some indication of excessive
water consumption. Undercharging is a definite possibility; have you
been checking s.g.? If so, what sort of values are you seeing at the
end of charge?
Finally, it is possible that you got bum batteries. The problem may not
be the brand/make of the batteries, but improper handling by the
distributor/retailer you got them from. I know people who've had good
luck with properly charged Exides but I seem to be in the minority here
;^> At some point you may simply have to replace your pack with another
brand from another source; most on the list have had good luck with
either of the two major brands, US Battery or Trojan.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I revised the copy at
>
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
>
> See what you think. Comments on the "conventions" welcome.
Looks good!
Conventions, point #4: how about substituting "tolerated" for
"acceptable", and add mention that OT threads should be allowed to die
out ASAP (something to this effect is in the ListProc welcome message, I
believe)?
Thanks,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike-
Another suggestion related to the Wh/mi: Can you please also provide a
field for the speed at which the measurement was taken? i.e. "200
Wh/mi at 50 mph" Without a corresponding speed, the number is not very
useful, at least when trying to compare vehicles.
thanks,
Andrew
Mike Chancey wrote:
Victor wrote:
Don't want to sound nit picking, but it's watt*hours or Wh, not
Watt/hours.
It's obvious what you're trying to say, but please pay attention to the
units, else it is confusing esp. for newbies who may try to use it
as a formula - dividing watts by the hours - and get total nonsense.
Indeed. My headache is trying to turn our field names back into plain
English We may store that as WHPM or some silly name like that, but
the web page should read "Watt Hours per Mile" and include a how to
page with suggestions on how to properly calculate it. We will
probably also have to have a page to explain any terms.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:31 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote:
Thanks for the support!
I've thought about a trike design a lot, but the seeing what happened to
Corbin makes me flinch.
The best design I have would be a fully enclosed 2 wheel motorcycle that
balances by gyroscope. I had the idea way before Segway. Do the same thing
except put the wheels front to back to handle hard acceleration without
leaning fore and aft. Those vacuum gyroscopes are just incredible and the
cost really shouldn't be that much. I imagine the software development
would be the big cost.
Think about a motorcycle that just balances there when you park it.
Neal
They did not need any software in 1913.:)
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/gyrocars/schilovs.htm
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan Peters [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Well, how about this?
>
> http://www.evforge.net/pub/
>
> Just upload a file, it sends you an email with a download and
> a delete link. Simple.
Excellent. Thanks.
Given that David has gone to the effort of procuring the evdl.org
domain, and it is rather intuitively associated with the EVDL mailing
list (more so than "evforge"), it would be really nice if there were
some way to put the ftp/file repository for files associated
specifically with EVDL postings under the evdl.org domain even if the
actual service and/or files are provided by and reside on the evforge
physical storage/server.
This, I think, is the advantage/attraction of the list software someone
suggested we move to; it would automagically strip attachments from
incoming posts, place them into a list-specific file repository, and
insert the appropriate link into the post before broadcasting it to the
membership. Beautiful. What I like about this scheme is that the
process is completely automated, so it doesn't rely on anyone making any
extra effort when posting, the file repository is integrally linked to
the list, and the attachments cannot be deleted at will by the poster,
so they will remain available to anyone who attempts to follow a link in
a message found in one of the online archives.
I really can't fathom anyone objecting to the list allowing such a
software upgrade from the venerable ListProc package, provided that the
new package continues to operate as a plain text mailing list (as
opposed to a rich text or HTML mailing list or only providing a
webmail-type interface). This upgrade would only be noticable to the
extent that the addresses to which we post our messages and list server
commands would change, and this is really the only way that it differs
from SJSU upgrading from one version of ListProc to another (whether we
like it or not).
This is distinctly different from the usual situaiton where someone
proposes that we move from a plain text list to a rich text/HTML one or
to a webmail sort of arrangement, etc. People susbscribed to this list
are not likely to transfer en masse to another version of it if they
have to do so manually, but most everyone is likely to have no
objections at all if one day the list address changed automagically and
everything kept working the same as usual except with some of the things
we now have to police manually handled automagically... any chance that
if such an upgrade were to happen, that the new list addresses could be
at the evdl.org domain so that we could work towards getting everything
EVDL organised at a single main location?
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Robert,
Sounds alot like my ride. http://home.comcast.net/~damonhenry/ebike.htm.
I just recently added an e-meter so as the weather gets nicer I will start
riding again and be able to get some hard numbers.
damon
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: New to Electric Motorcycle
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:55:27 +1100
HI All,
I just acquired myself a old suzuki gsx 250 motorbike. Well i swapped it
for my fiat 132 weber carby... Notbad!!
I am just calling to all the people out there with some real life data in
running their motorbikes on electric power in terms of power usage,
voltage, amperage handling issues, controller choice etc etc etc. I do have
a general idea on component selection but i want to take a analytical
approach to design my bike. It's quite difficult to obtain drag data for
bikes.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au
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--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Stefan Peters [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, how about this?
http://www.evforge.net/pub/
Just upload a file, it sends you an email with a download and
a delete link. Simple.
Excellent. Thanks.
Given that David has gone to the effort of procuring the evdl.org
domain, and it is rather intuitively associated with the EVDL mailing
list (more so than "evforge"), it would be really nice if there were
some way to put the ftp/file repository for files associated
specifically with EVDL postings under the evdl.org domain even if the
actual service and/or files are provided by and reside on the evforge
physical storage/server.
The script is a simple series of PHP files that uses a mysql db to store
the codes and settings. It has a basic "admin" interface that allows
someone to see the files, when they were last accessed, how many times
they have been downloaded, and to delete a given file.
I took the "phpSendIt" script and did some modifications and clean-up to
it, I would be happy to send a copy to evdl.org if they want...
This, I think, is the advantage/attraction of the list software someone
suggested we move to; it would automagically strip attachments from
incoming posts, place them into a list-specific file repository, and
insert the appropriate link into the post before broadcasting it to the
membership. Beautiful. What I like about this scheme is that the
process is completely automated, so it doesn't rely on anyone making any
extra effort when posting, the file repository is integrally linked to
the list, and the attachments cannot be deleted at will by the poster,
so they will remain available to anyone who attempts to follow a link in
a message found in one of the online archives.
Very true, relocating instead of just stripping attachments is a very
attractive alternative.
Many have said "why bother?" - those must be the non-visual thinkers out
there ;) Many of us understand and communicate best in images, and a
long wordy description of a mechanical setup will leave our heads
scratching. Plus, things like sizable PDF docs containing excerpts,
torque curve graphs, and even a basic map for a gathering can only be
communicated by "binary" means. Providing a way to allow for binary
content on this list (such as suggested above) instead of just saying
"tough luck, figure it out yourself" is a definite plus for the free
flow of ideas.
--
Stefan T. Peters
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--- Begin Message ---
Just a side NOTE. Our local E-Bike Dealer, ( Eric Sundin -Electric
Bikes Northwest ; www.ebikesnw.com ) is on his way to Taipei... all
expenses PAID, for he will be a guest presentor/speaker on the subject
of electric assisted bicycles. His E-Bike shop is featured in a full
page story in a new glossy magazine called "SEATTLE Metropolitan" now
on local news stands. In sheer sales figures his shop is one of the
most successful E-Bike dealers in the USA.
Although Eric has not been active with SEVA for years, and is a true
enviro-holic, no EV Drag Racing...etc.. he is still one of US, pushing
and preaching the clean electric DRIVE story. We wish him Well in
Taipei, and cant wait to hear his stories when he returns...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob,
It's a magazine full of tech projects built from scavenged or cheap parts.
Cool magazine, if expensive. Check out the site:
http://www.makezine.com/magazine/
Tim
------------
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car
blog)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:13:01 -0500
Whatthehell is "Make" magazine, anyhow? Maybe I don't wanna know, with
articles of that sort. They may feature Carl Tilley and that guy down in MS
with the "run forEVer" electric car. Over Unity here? Again, It seems to
poop, just slipped out, (pop) up now an' again.Gees Popular Science is
getting bad enough, with vaperware and unobtanium stuff, nowadaze!And now,
with Bloggs, No Limits!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<< I am using a Zivan charger. I monitored the charging process with my
E-Meter and found it to be in the envelope (approx. 190V max Voltage for a
144V nominal system). I just don't have any idea. While I ordered new
Trojans, I am afraid that there is a problem with my system that will
effect those Trojans too. I am afraid I am ending up killing my new
Trojans as well.
I never draw currents > 350A and I never discharge my batteries beyond
50%. One would think, those batteries should have a good life in my truck.
But alas, they either commit suicide or they are being killed by something
I am doing. >>>
Your usage of <2C and >50% shouldn't be contributing to this. Seems 190V may be
a little "out of the envelope", though: floodites say normal charging for 144V
nom. usually ends at 172.8V (2.4V/cell and amps down to 2% of C) and
periodically equalizes at 180V (2.5V/cell and even lower current). The gurus
can be more specific about this (q.v.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, March 8, 2006 11:32 am, Roger Stockton said:
> I really can't fathom anyone objecting to the list allowing such a
> software upgrade from the venerable ListProc package, provided that the
> new package continues to operate as a plain text mailing list (as
For what it's worth... ListProc is certainly a list processor that has
seen a long history of use. At the moment however, it appears to be long
since abandoned. It was developed and maintained by an organization called
CREN, which no longer exists. It's former website
(http://www.cren.net/listproc) directs you to the Sourceforge page to
which they moved the project, and the home page linked from there
(http://listproc.sourceforge.net) still contains references and broken
links to CREN -- defunct since 2002. No releases have been posted since
then.
--chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Sail boats don't sail "straight" into the wind though.
Yes that is true but a windmill sailboat can sail stright into the wind as
fast or faster than you can tack upwind.
http://foxxaero.homestead.com/indrad_007.html Question is would you settle
for driving at 5 knots.
Lawrnece Rhodes.....
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--- Begin Message ---
Are you talking about Mister Cousteau (well known french diver)boat named
"Alcyone" and equiped with 2 "turbo-voile" ?
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ac-creteil.fr%2Flycees%2F77%2Flafayettechampagne%2Finfo%2Fsite_internet_tpe1s_V2%2Ftpe%25202005%2F2%2520Remplacement%2520energie%2520petroliere%2Fchez-brieuc%2FPages%2520Webs%2Ftpemaritimeturbovoile.htm&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
> On 3/5/06, Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Sail boats don't sail "straight" into the wind though. If you have a
boat
> > with a 30 degree tacking angle you have a pretty nice boat. I'd feel
pretty
> > silly tacking back and forth across a two lane road to make it up wind
in my
> > car.
>
> Actually, there is a kind of boat which uses a vertical axis wind
> turbine (actually it looks just like a cylinder or pole sticking up)
> which drives a propeller. It can drive into the wind, albeit slowly.
> Sorry I don't know any more details and can't find a link but perhaps
> someone else can verify.
>
> My EV is wind and hydro powered anyway, why drag the turbine around with
you..
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I read this month's Make last week. The EV article featured Roderick Wilde,
John Wayland, et. al. It wasn't too bad.
In general, Make has smaller, nerd-head type of projects. One article this
month was how to make an 84W windmill cheaply. Other projects have been how
to turn a computer mouse into a little robot. Welding basics. Stuff like
that. No perpetual motion stories.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Clevenger
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car
blog)
Hi Bob,
It's a magazine full of tech projects built from scavenged or cheap parts.
Cool magazine, if expensive. Check out the site:
http://www.makezine.com/magazine/
Tim
------------
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car
blog)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:13:01 -0500
Whatthehell is "Make" magazine, anyhow? Maybe I don't wanna know, with
articles of that sort. They may feature Carl Tilley and that guy down in MS
with the "run forEVer" electric car. Over Unity here? Again, It seems to
poop, just slipped out, (pop) up now an' again.Gees Popular Science is
getting bad enough, with vaperware and unobtanium stuff, nowadaze!And now,
with Bloggs, No Limits!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> The best design I have would be a fully enclosed 2 wheel motorcycle that
> balances by gyroscope. I had the idea way before Segway. Do the same
> thing except put the wheels front to back to handle hard acceleration
> without leaning fore and aft.
It's been done. Assuming you use a large enough gyro to mechanically
ballance the bike; cornering is awkward since it doesn't want to lean and
the power requirment is pretty high.
> Those vacuum gyroscopes are just incredible and the
> cost really shouldn't be that much. I imagine the software development
> would be the big cost.
You could also look into the little solid state gyro's they use on RC
helicopters. Dirt cheap and easy to interface. Of course they just
provide an electronic signal when you tilt, they don't actually do
anything to prevent the tilting.
> Think about a motorcycle that just balances there when you park it.
Yup, replace a simple kickstand with something that does the same function
while wasting lots of energy. Kind of useless once the "neato" factor
wears off.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Michaela,
You should haven't a problem with the Trojans batteries. I have now been
charging 6 volt Trojans battery pack to 220 volts for the bulk charging
which is about 7.3 volts and about once a week to 225 volts for equalizing
which is about 7.5 volts. The batteries have now been going for 4 years and
the voltage of the batteries range from 6.32 to 6.36 with most of them in
the 6.33 volt range.
One thing you will have to watch out for, is when you order the Trojan
batteries, is that you want all of them fresh straight from the manufacture.
I got my batteries which were only 2 weeks old. Check the stamp date on the
lead pad.
The batteries I had before I had the Trojans were Exides. I blew up 10 of
these right at the start. I found out that the dealer took some batteries
out of stock that was over 6 months old, 10 of them where from a warehouse
that was over 10 months old, and the rest was order from the battery
factory. They never had any of these batteries under a maintaining charge.
YOU TELL THEM YOU WANT ALL THE BATTERIES WITH THE SAME MANUFACTURE DATE AND
NOT MORE THAN 15 DAYS OLD! Also you want them be a match set.
Also it is best to get them in a standard post or heavy duty bus bar pad.
Mine are standard post with a stud on top. I used a gold plated battery
clamp that is made out of forge brass and I also used a stainless washer and
nut on the stud to put downward pressure on the battery clamp and also is a
connection to install a BMS system. This keeps the post from puckering out
the top and shrinking back. The battery clamp has a threaded thru bolt and
nut on a pad, so I could used my existing lug type links.
Normally the dealer would order a pellet load of 50. Take you testers with
you and pick out the best number of batteries you need. I took 30 batteries
which all read 6.33 volts. Also watch for a positive post that may be
darker than the others. This indicates that the seal may be leaking around
the post.
You could do a load test at the dealer, but I did mine at home after I cycle
the batteries several times. Then do the load test at about 75 percent
charge.
I talk to a tech at Trojan, and they said all you need is a 75 amp load for
15 seconds to see if they all read the same voltage drop.
Check the specific gravity of all the cells, and record this on a battery
chart. Charge the batteries to 100 percent and then run the EV at not more
than 25 mph for the first 5 miles and take another specific gravity reading
again. Repeat this every 5 miles and record the reading on a battery
battery and/or graph. This will tell you what the range of your EV. Also,
driving at a lower speed and keeping below the ampere-hour of the battery
will break in your batteries. You do not what to do deep discharges yet, or
you may sulfated the negative plates before you condition them by opening
out more pores in the plates which increases the area of the plates.
Try not to discharge below 75 percent charge during this break in period for
about the first 200 miles.
Its take about 100 discharges and recharges from 100 percent to 50 percent
to fully condition the plates, according to the Trojan technical department.
Its is best to talk directly to the techs of the battery manufacturer of
your batteries on any procedure you want to do. Talking to some local
battery dealers cause there mine to go blank.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: Dead NAPA Floodies (again)
>
> Hello Everybody:
>
> I feel like an idiot and my local NAPA store is unable to provide new
> batteries at the rate they die in my truck. This morning, I found another
> dead cell in a battery that was just 3 months old.
>
> I am using a Zivan charger. I monitored the charging process with my
> E-Meter and found it to be in the envelope (approx. 190V max Voltage for a
> 144V nominal system). I just don't have any idea. While I ordered new
> Trojans, I am afraid that there is a problem with my system that will
> effect those Trojans too. I am afraid I am ending up killing my new
> Trojans as well.
>
> I never draw currents > 350A and I never discharge my batteries beyond
> 50%. One would think, those batteries should have a good life in my truck.
> But alas, they either commit suicide or they are being killed by something
> I am doing.
>
> _ANY_ input is appreciated.
>
> Michaela
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
