EV Digest 5271
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: My Battery Monitor
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: LED Headlights
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: My Battery Monitor
by Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Parts for VW Rabbits
by "James Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: LED Headlights
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motor woes - centrifugal switches? (link to pics)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: LED Headlights
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: My Battery Monitor
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Early Hawker deaths (was Re: help choose best AGM battery for
lawnmower)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
How many batterys can it monitor at one time? Expandable perhaps? I'll
have either 26 or 52 batts depending on future choices.
Mike
--- Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback! I have thought a bit about selling it,
> though I wonder how much people would pay for it? I'll think about
> the building of new ones, and the upgrades that might be nice...
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Mar 22, 2006 1:00 PM
> >To: Tim Wong <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: My Battery Monitor
> >
> >Excellent way to give voltage feedback!
> >
> >I bet that took some time to develop. I'd sure like to have that
> >system in my truck. Do you have any plans to sell the system outside
> >of the prototype in your vehicle? I can build anything if you supply
> >the doc's.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I thought I would put my battery monitor up for grading with all
> you
> >EV experts. See the pictures at this link:
> >>
> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~evtkw/
> >>
> >> I was inspired to make it after seeing Gordon Stallings system on
> >the net. Basically it measures voltage on each of my 18 6V
> batteries,
> >transmits the info via serial to a cpu behind the dash, then
> displays
> >the data in bar graph form (updating the whole graph every .4 sec),
> >decimal form, or sends the data over a serial link to a computer.
> >>
> >> I wish I had left a spot for tapping off of my Shut for
> >current/energy displays, but oh well. Also, you may laugh at the
> .01
> >display resolution, and rightly so - theoreticaly about .04 error,
> but
> >it usually measures exactly the same as my Fluke, so I just left it
> as is
> >>
> >> So what do you think?
> >>
> >> Tim Wong
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee, Chris,
Don't buy a variac for this one time.
Since Chris wants to do this just once and only needs to get them
from "dead" to a few percent charged, so his EV controller will
see them,
I would recommend the route that Chris indicated, with the change
that I'd put only one limiting element (hair dryer, disc heater?)
before the rectifier and feed the output of the rectifier straight
into the batteries.
Start at 120V AC until the batteries get some voltage, the current should
drop quickly, then re-connect the entire thing to 240V AC.
If you already have a Variac, then that is the easiest route.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Ok, I have a problem. I am putting 250 of the flodded BB600 NiCD cells
> into the truck and I need a way to do an initial charge of them. I don't
> have to get them to 375 volts, but it would be nice. I do need to get
> them to... about 325-350 volts so the Dolphin can see them and take it
> from there... Is it possible to build a 240 volt based "really bad boy"
> charger with some form of basic current limiting? Like a rectifier with
> a pair of light bulbs in series with the output?
The classic "bad boy" would be a bridge rectifier on the 240vac line,
with enough cords, connectors, and whatever to limit the peak current to
something that won't blow a circuit breaker. It would get you up to
240vac x 1.4 = 336vdc (at zero current).
But if these nicads are dead now (essentially zero volts), connecting a
bad-boy would probably blow the bridge rectifier immediately. You could
put many light bulbs in parallel to limit the current to the 10 amps you
want, and start at 120vac. But 120v at 10a is 1200 watts worth of light
bulbs (twenty 60w bulbs in parallel).
I'd probably get a big variac, and use it to drive the bridge. Monitor
the charging current, and slowly turn up the variac to keep the current
at 10 amps (or whatever the variac can handle). It only needs to be a
120vac variac; start with 120vac in and it controls from 0-140vac
(0-196vdc). When this has "maxed out", reconnect the bridge between the
variac output and the opposite phase of a 240vac receptacle. This adds
120vac to the variac's output, so its 0-140vac gives you 120-260vac
(168-364vdc).
This gets you essentially where you want to go, and the
variac-rectifier-ammeter charger is a generally useful tool for other
uses.
Be aware that this is a "rude and crude" way to do it! No isolation, no
overheating protection, and nothing but your household breakers for
overcurrent protection!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, and if you want to control the current and need to take all
batteries up from 0 to some charge level without interruptions
and want to be able to give them a fairly heavy amount of current
without tripping a breaker,
then why not wire your electric range (if you have one) in series
with the rectifier input?
Turn on more burners to get more current
0 to 240V AC without a problem
The only part you really need to charge your batteries is a rectifier
and a range-extension cord (don't fiddle with the house wiring).
This extension cord is handy later for opportunity charging at 240V.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:15 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
Hi Lee, Chris,
Don't buy a variac for this one time.
Since Chris wants to do this just once and only needs to get them
from "dead" to a few percent charged, so his EV controller will
see them,
I would recommend the route that Chris indicated, with the change
that I'd put only one limiting element (hair dryer, disc heater?)
before the rectifier and feed the output of the rectifier straight
into the batteries.
Start at 120V AC until the batteries get some voltage, the current should
drop quickly, then re-connect the entire thing to 240V AC.
If you already have a Variac, then that is the easiest route.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Ok, I have a problem. I am putting 250 of the flodded BB600 NiCD cells
> into the truck and I need a way to do an initial charge of them. I don't
> have to get them to 375 volts, but it would be nice. I do need to get
> them to... about 325-350 volts so the Dolphin can see them and take it
> from there... Is it possible to build a 240 volt based "really bad boy"
> charger with some form of basic current limiting? Like a rectifier with
> a pair of light bulbs in series with the output?
The classic "bad boy" would be a bridge rectifier on the 240vac line,
with enough cords, connectors, and whatever to limit the peak current to
something that won't blow a circuit breaker. It would get you up to
240vac x 1.4 = 336vdc (at zero current).
But if these nicads are dead now (essentially zero volts), connecting a
bad-boy would probably blow the bridge rectifier immediately. You could
put many light bulbs in parallel to limit the current to the 10 amps you
want, and start at 120vac. But 120v at 10a is 1200 watts worth of light
bulbs (twenty 60w bulbs in parallel).
I'd probably get a big variac, and use it to drive the bridge. Monitor
the charging current, and slowly turn up the variac to keep the current
at 10 amps (or whatever the variac can handle). It only needs to be a
120vac variac; start with 120vac in and it controls from 0-140vac
(0-196vdc). When this has "maxed out", reconnect the bridge between the
variac output and the opposite phase of a 240vac receptacle. This adds
120vac to the variac's output, so its 0-140vac gives you 120-260vac
(168-364vdc).
This gets you essentially where you want to go, and the
variac-rectifier-ammeter charger is a generally useful tool for other
uses.
Be aware that this is a "rude and crude" way to do it! No isolation, no
overheating protection, and nothing but your household breakers for
overcurrent protection!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before I forget:
Make sure to have a breaker at your battery connection, so you
can always break the pack loose from the rest and have it
automatically protected in case something of this temp wiring shorts.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:25 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
Oh, and if you want to control the current and need to take all
batteries up from 0 to some charge level without interruptions
and want to be able to give them a fairly heavy amount of current
without tripping a breaker,
then why not wire your electric range (if you have one) in series
with the rectifier input?
Turn on more burners to get more current
0 to 240V AC without a problem
The only part you really need to charge your batteries is a rectifier
and a range-extension cord (don't fiddle with the house wiring).
This extension cord is handy later for opportunity charging at 240V.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:15 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
Hi Lee, Chris,
Don't buy a variac for this one time.
Since Chris wants to do this just once and only needs to get them
from "dead" to a few percent charged, so his EV controller will
see them,
I would recommend the route that Chris indicated, with the change
that I'd put only one limiting element (hair dryer, disc heater?)
before the rectifier and feed the output of the rectifier straight
into the batteries.
Start at 120V AC until the batteries get some voltage, the current should
drop quickly, then re-connect the entire thing to 240V AC.
If you already have a Variac, then that is the easiest route.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Ok, I have a problem. I am putting 250 of the flodded BB600 NiCD cells
> into the truck and I need a way to do an initial charge of them. I don't
> have to get them to 375 volts, but it would be nice. I do need to get
> them to... about 325-350 volts so the Dolphin can see them and take it
> from there... Is it possible to build a 240 volt based "really bad boy"
> charger with some form of basic current limiting? Like a rectifier with
> a pair of light bulbs in series with the output?
The classic "bad boy" would be a bridge rectifier on the 240vac line,
with enough cords, connectors, and whatever to limit the peak current to
something that won't blow a circuit breaker. It would get you up to
240vac x 1.4 = 336vdc (at zero current).
But if these nicads are dead now (essentially zero volts), connecting a
bad-boy would probably blow the bridge rectifier immediately. You could
put many light bulbs in parallel to limit the current to the 10 amps you
want, and start at 120vac. But 120v at 10a is 1200 watts worth of light
bulbs (twenty 60w bulbs in parallel).
I'd probably get a big variac, and use it to drive the bridge. Monitor
the charging current, and slowly turn up the variac to keep the current
at 10 amps (or whatever the variac can handle). It only needs to be a
120vac variac; start with 120vac in and it controls from 0-140vac
(0-196vdc). When this has "maxed out", reconnect the bridge between the
variac output and the opposite phase of a 240vac receptacle. This adds
120vac to the variac's output, so its 0-140vac gives you 120-260vac
(168-364vdc).
This gets you essentially where you want to go, and the
variac-rectifier-ammeter charger is a generally useful tool for other
uses.
Be aware that this is a "rude and crude" way to do it! No isolation, no
overheating protection, and nothing but your household breakers for
overcurrent protection!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: LED Headlights
I hate to burst the bubble of this exciting topic but unless D.O.T. approved
you will not be able to use any of these ideas. If caught you could loose
your registration if not your license. When HID first came out in Europe it
was not approve for U.S.. And all the European Autos had to have headlight
changed before they could be driven in the U.S.. So please do not change
your headlights with experiemental one's you created. I am talking licenced
Road Driven EV's of the Highway variety. NEV, Peddle Powered bike are not
included.
LED Taillight and Turn signals are presently available in D.O.T. approved
form so creating your own is not at issue. Only the /Headlights.
I find this hilarious..
Every Punk Kid and Rally wanna Be race driver has about a Billion Candle
power on his roll Cage.. and Waves at the Cops with a Smile. The Cops Wave
back..
Your chances of getting a ticket or your Registration pulled is about as
much as a little old lady getting a ticket for driving too slow. Happens,
Not very often..
You get a ticket... and nothing else, unless you are really making a pain in
the Eyes of your self. If you are smart you have the Bright ones on the high
beam circuit, That way you can turn them off
And on coming traffic or cops should never see the really bright emitters.
As for any high performance lighting discretion is advised, Even if you are
just reaching the legal limit. I know folks that have 500 watts of light on
the Headache rack... Rarely do they use them. But when it's going sideways
here and you are dodging flying tree limbs and falling power lines.... being
able to light up the county is a comforting feeling.
For those of us who don't mind the Risk of talking to a cop... HID and LED
lighting will be a great way to save a couple of watts and have a Cool
looking EV while doing it.
I just got a Box of 1000mcd Violet LED from Super Bright... Yer gonna need
sunglasses when you have MK3 Regs being scanned.
Santa Claus does wear Brown....
The point of having really bright lights is to have them aimed correctly and
maybe a little conservatively.. You don't need to aggravate your fellow
drivers.. they have High beam that are fully capable of blinding also.
I would LOVE to have LED light on my Fiero, and will have as soon as they
are attainable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> As long as you don't mind it counting only in one direction; these
> "stepper" clock motors aren't reversible, and you can't have negative
> frequency.
You guys aren't gonna make me disassemble my Milburn's 1921 Sangamo meter
are you...?
Incidentally, the Sangamo's AH gage needle turns CCW from a reading of ZERO
as it discharges.
This way it resembles a classic fuel gauge with the needle cruising slowly
to the left.
Also, inset into the lower portion of the gauge is another needle meter
which reads battery electric current in amps---this gauge goes from -100amps
to +50amps (charging).
If they only had digital and analog electronics in 1921 we'd have had the
E-meter 75years earlier...
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The cpu part of mine is programmed to read 16 batteries, but the sensing boxes
are modular and measure 6 batteries each. So you could have 5 or 9 boxes to
measure your batteries, but it may be too slow - it measures one at a time and
mine does 16 batteries in just under .5 seconds... The processor could be set
up to be faster, I guess, and could potentially be designed to work better in
conjunctino with your specific system.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Mar 23, 2006 10:11 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: My Battery Monitor
>
>How many batterys can it monitor at one time? Expandable perhaps? I'll
>have either 26 or 52 batts depending on future choices.
>
>
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>--- Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the feedback! I have thought a bit about selling it,
>> though I wonder how much people would pay for it? I'll think about
>> the building of new ones, and the upgrades that might be nice...
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Mar 22, 2006 1:00 PM
>> >To: Tim Wong <[email protected]>
>> >Subject: Re: My Battery Monitor
>> >
>> >Excellent way to give voltage feedback!
>> >
>> >I bet that took some time to develop. I'd sure like to have that
>> >system in my truck. Do you have any plans to sell the system outside
>> >of the prototype in your vehicle? I can build anything if you supply
>> >the doc's.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I thought I would put my battery monitor up for grading with all
>> you
>> >EV experts. See the pictures at this link:
>> >>
>> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~evtkw/
>> >>
>> >> I was inspired to make it after seeing Gordon Stallings system on
>> >the net. Basically it measures voltage on each of my 18 6V
>> batteries,
>> >transmits the info via serial to a cpu behind the dash, then
>> displays
>> >the data in bar graph form (updating the whole graph every .4 sec),
>> >decimal form, or sends the data over a serial link to a computer.
>> >>
>> >> I wish I had left a spot for tapping off of my Shut for
>> >current/energy displays, but oh well. Also, you may laugh at the
>> .01
>> >display resolution, and rightly so - theoreticaly about .04 error,
>> but
>> >it usually measures exactly the same as my Fluke, so I just left it
>> as is
>> >>
>> >> So what do you think?
>> >>
>> >> Tim Wong
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>Here's to the crazy ones.
>The misfits.
>The rebels.
>The troublemakers.
>The round pegs in the square holes.
>The ones who see things differently
>The ones that change the world!!
>
>www.RotorDesign.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob, you can check http://www.thesamba.com or the classifieds on
http://vwvortex.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: Parts for VW Rabbits
> Hi Bill and other Rabbitiers;
>
> Parts? forgetabout it, I stopped off at a few junkyards coming back
from
> DC looking for Tail lite assemblies, like the wide ones for the 82's and
up.
> You would think I was asking for Skoda , Trabant,or Red Flag parts!I don't
> think I have EVer seen a car just disapear from the roads so fast, at
least
> here in Rust-o-Matic land! I might have a few wiper arms? How to ya tell
if
> they are German? Same for door handles, but I think all the Wabbits I have
> junked are the Wastemorland PA built ones.
>
> This sounds like a Left Coast thing?Phoenix, where it rarely
rains?Along
> the same thread, anybody got any clean, left side, drivers' , tailites
> assembly?For an 82 Bunny?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:53 AM
> Subject: Parts for VW Rabbits
>
>
> > Does anyone have a favorite place to get parts for VW Rabbits?
> >
> > I need a genuine German door handle, wiper arms (not just blades) and
> > trim clips for my 85 Cabriolet (The Wabbit.) The places I used to get
> > parts are no longer selling water-cooled VW parts.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Bill Dube
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wasn't aware that DOT approves headlight designs. I know they have
restrictions as far as what color, angles, and lamp wattage you can use,
but they do not dictate how you can implement within those
restrictions. A headlight made of LEDs could be legal with nobody's
approval.
I saw what looked like some good explanations on that in regards to
HID. The spec was 55W, but with no spec on the actual amount of light
emitted. It yielded a reasonably consistent limit on the amount of
light until HIDs came on the scene. Some (not all) HID mods also didn't
focus the light properly and it cast enough upward that it blinded
people. It's not illegal to do HID mods without anybody's approval but
if it puts out light past the specified angle you can get a ticket.
Vehicle could in theory be impounded. It could make you civially liable
in an accident.
Danny
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
I hate to burst the bubble of this exciting topic but unless D.O.T. approved you will not be able to use any of these ideas. If caught you could loose your registration if not your license. When HID first came out in Europe it was not approve for U.S.. And all the European Autos had to have headlight changed before they could be driven in the U.S.. So please do not change your headlights with experiemental one's you created. I am talking licenced Road Driven EV's of the Highway variety. NEV, Peddle Powered bike are not included.
LED Taillight and Turn signals are presently available in D.O.T. approved form so creating your own is not at issue. Only the /Headlights.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:49:14 -0600, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>But if these nicads are dead now (essentially zero volts), connecting a
>bad-boy would probably blow the bridge rectifier immediately. You could
>put many light bulbs in parallel to limit the current to the 10 amps you
>want, and start at 120vac. But 120v at 10a is 1200 watts worth of light
>bulbs (twenty 60w bulbs in parallel).
But that's only two of those el-cheapo 500 watt quartz-halogen lights
that are available for under $10. Or for 240, one of the el-cheapo
1500 watt 240 volt quartz-halogens for about the same price.
There's an additional reason to use lamps - they make excellent
constant current sources. Without the lamps you'll have to "ride the
gain" on the variac as the pack voltage comes up. You won't have to
do that with the lamp regulators. Crank the DC voltage to wherever
you want the pack to be and let the lamps regulate the current. The
lamp changes resistance as the voltage across it changes and the
filament cools sufficiently to keep the current at its specified draw
over an amazingly wide range of voltage.
I have a homemade "slightly mis-behaving boy" charger that consists of
a big variac, several Q-H lamps, a huge transformer, rectifier and
filter caps. All mounted on a heavy duty hand truck. It's capable of
250 amps up to 45 volts with 240 volt input. I switch the lamps in
and out of the transformer primary to regulate the output current. I
used lamps on the primary because they were VASTLY cheaper than
equivalent lamps on the secondary.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:15:23 -0500, Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I have several PM drive motors from Wheelhorse/GE garden tractors that I
>have taken apart after one failed.
>
>Inside each one there is some sort of centrifugal switch with little
>'knobs' on a disk (counter weights??) that seem to like to fall off. If
>the motor is then run, the loose parts kick around and destroy
>everything else inside. Pictures of 4 motors in different stages of life
>and death are here:
> http://www.coate.org/jim/lists/drive_motors.html
Those are bog-standard centrifugal start switches that most fractional
HP AC motors are equipped with. Any motor or appliance repair shop
can replace them.
>
>My questions to the motor experts:
>
>- For the first two motors that are still intact, should I worry about
>the 'knobs' breaking off soon if put back in service? Is there some way
>to reinforce them?
Probably. Are you running the motors faster than normal? The fastest
motor that that type of switch would be used on is 3600 RPM. That
looks like the motor may be turning too fast and slinging off the
weights.
>
>- Are centrifugal switches a common thing in motors? As in can I find
>replacement parts somewhere for the 3rd motor, and maybe the first two
>as preventative care?
I've never seen them in DC motors.
>
>- What exactly is the purpose of the switch? Is the concern that the
>drive train might get jammed somehow, which stalls out the motor and it
>burns up? If so, would it work to remove the centrifugal switch from the
>motor and reassemble and then either run completely without and tell the
>driver to be "careful" or (better) add some sort of external fault
>detection circuit? I don't recall ever seeing centrifugal switches on
>on-road EVs so I wonder how big the problem is that it is trying to solve.
It would depend on how the switch is wired. If it's wired to be
closed when the armature is stationary then it's probably an overspeed
protection. The switch could also function as a crude governor.
If the switch is wired open when stationary then it might be a stall
switch. I'm betting on over-speed, however. I'm also betting that
the switch(s) failed, resulting in over-speed which slung off the
weights.
>
>- Is there any hope for the 4th motor with all the dents and groves in
>the armature, or is it toast?
It's hard to tell from the photos. Here's what you need to do to
check it.
First give it a really good physical inspection. Look for broken or
skinned wires. If the wires are skinned, you can separate them with a
pick and coat the damage with a couple of coats of Glyptal.
If it passes the visual inspection then do a ground check with your
ohmmeter. Check between any commutator bar and the laminations. If
this is open then things are probably OK.
Next, you need to find an electric motor shop that can run a "Growler"
test. This involves laying the armature on a special electromagnet.
The armature is slowly turned while a hack saw or other thin steel
object is held near the laminations. If there is a shorted turn, it
forms the secondary of a transformer and causes a strong magnetic
field. The saw blade will buzz over that winding.
Next the tech will rotate the armature while touching the blade
between each adjacent set of comm bars. This checks for continuity.
If the winding is intact, there will be little sparks where the saw
blade touches the bars and the sound will change.
If everything is OK to this point then have the motor guy turn the
commutator, taking just enough cut to make sure there are no high
spots around the dents. Don't try to machine out the dents - they
don't matter. Just make sure the metal hasn't been puckered up around
the dents. Puckers would make the brushes skip and would quickly wear
them down.
After turning, the "mica" will need to be cut. The mica on that
armature is probably plastic but it needs to be cut nonetheless. The
motor shop will have an electric tool that speeds the cutting. If you
want to save some labor charges you can do it yourself.
Get a hacksaw blade and grind down the sides until there is no tooth
offset and the blade will fit neatly between the comm bars. Steady
the armature and use the blade to saw out the "mica" down perhaps 1/32
of an inch below the copper. This both cuts the mica and removes the
burrs that result from turning the commutator. Replace the fan and
switch and reassemble.
Since this is a PM motor you can probably get away without the
over-speed switch. It'll only go so fast with a given voltage, unlike
a series motor that will run away with no load. That is, if your pack
voltage is stock. If you've upped the voltage then I'd want to have
the switch in place.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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--- Begin Message ---
I hate to burst the bubble of this exciting topic but unless D.O.T.
approved you will not be able to use any of these ideas. If caught you
could loose your registration if not your license.
Not very likely. There are MANY non DOT approved lighting packages out
on the road today. More than there ever have been before. Some locations
specifically target these for ticketing (not license revocation nor
registration revocation), but most areas do not. So long as your lights
are aimed properly and so long as they do the job, many people get away
with non DOT lights.
There are a dozen or more stores in my town that sell illegal lighting
packages and I live in a small town. If these really were costing people
their licenses or their cars, there would not be so many vendors. At
worst, you get a "fix-it" ticket, and that is if the cop is looking to
give you a bad time already.
Fortunately, as you rightly pointed out, PEVs are essentially exempt
from what little scrutiny exists.
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would it be possible to have a button or something that would allow the
display to cycle through the different groups? Would that not keep the
scan rate up by only displaying one group at a time?
So please sell me a set.
Mike
--- Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The cpu part of mine is programmed to read 16 batteries, but the
> sensing boxes are modular and measure 6 batteries each. So you could
> have 5 or 9 boxes to measure your batteries, but it may be too slow -
> it measures one at a time and mine does 16 batteries in just under .5
> seconds... The processor could be set up to be faster, I guess, and
> could potentially be designed to work better in conjunctino with your
> specific system.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Mar 23, 2006 10:11 AM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: My Battery Monitor
> >
> >How many batterys can it monitor at one time? Expandable perhaps?
> I'll
> >have either 26 or 52 batts depending on future choices.
> >
> >
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the feedback! I have thought a bit about selling it,
> >> though I wonder how much people would pay for it? I'll think
> about
> >> the building of new ones, and the upgrades that might be nice...
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Mar 22, 2006 1:00 PM
> >> >To: Tim Wong <[email protected]>
> >> >Subject: Re: My Battery Monitor
> >> >
> >> >Excellent way to give voltage feedback!
> >> >
> >> >I bet that took some time to develop. I'd sure like to have that
> >> >system in my truck. Do you have any plans to sell the system
> outside
> >> >of the prototype in your vehicle? I can build anything if you
> supply
> >> >the doc's.
> >> >
> >> >Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I thought I would put my battery monitor up for grading with
> all
> >> you
> >> >EV experts. See the pictures at this link:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~evtkw/
> >> >>
> >> >> I was inspired to make it after seeing Gordon Stallings system
> on
> >> >the net. Basically it measures voltage on each of my 18 6V
> >> batteries,
> >> >transmits the info via serial to a cpu behind the dash, then
> >> displays
> >> >the data in bar graph form (updating the whole graph every .4
> sec),
> >> >decimal form, or sends the data over a serial link to a computer.
>
> >> >>
> >> >> I wish I had left a spot for tapping off of my Shut for
> >> >current/energy displays, but oh well. Also, you may laugh at the
> >> .01
> >> >display resolution, and rightly so - theoreticaly about .04
> error,
> >> but
> >> >it usually measures exactly the same as my Fluke, so I just left
> it
> >> as is
> >> >>
> >> >> So what do you think?
> >> >>
> >> >> Tim Wong
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Here's to the crazy ones.
> >The misfits.
> >The rebels.
> >The troublemakers.
> >The round pegs in the square holes.
> >The ones who see things differently
> >The ones that change the world!!
> >
> >www.RotorDesign.com
> >
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a homemade "slightly mis-behaving boy" charger that consists of
a big variac, several Q-H lamps, a huge transformer, rectifier and
filter caps. All mounted on a heavy duty hand truck. It's capable of
250 amps up to 45 volts with 240 volt input. I switch the lamps in
and out of the transformer primary to regulate the output current. I
used lamps on the primary because they were VASTLY cheaper than
equivalent lamps on the secondary.
Just a quickie, do you put the lamps in *series* or in parallel to the pack?
I would think that if you put it in series, the lamp would act as a
resistor and limit the current to the bulb rating, correct?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:50:51 -0000, "Mike Phillips"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi John,
>
>I will somehow post the graph of my charger's CC/CV curve. I recorded
>it one day to see what it looked like. Maybe you will see some magic
>bullet in the numbers. But I don't see it. Other than maybe the fact
>that the ah's are way too small.
I know from experience that you can't kill a Hawker by running it
down. Usually by leaving the "ignition" switch off and walking away
from a scooter for awhile, I've run 'em down many times. It may
(probably) shorten the life but it won't kill 'em. I haven't detected
any loss of life so far.
I know what Hawker says about a minimum charging rate but I'm not sure
that is as important when there is a high discharge rate involved. I
know that the Badsey scooter came with a 1 amp charger. The first
thing a lot of people do is replace the ChiCom batteries with Hawkers.
The guy who bought my Badsey is still commuting to work on it, about 5
years later. I think the minimum charge rate applies to float and low
discharge service.
All you need to do to dry out a hawker or any AGM or gell is supply
enough current to the fully charged battery to exceed its
recombination rate. At that point, the H2/O2 are liberated, they
build pressure until the reliefs lift and then they're gone forever.
There is very little water in these batteries so death can come
rapidly.
At the same time water is being lost, excess charging can corrode the
lead. Since the "plates" in a hawker resemble gauze, there is little
room for error.
I've sorta revived dried out Hawkers by removing the safety caps,
adding distilled water, waiting a couple of days for the water to
diffuse through the glass mat and then charging. The full capacity
never returns because of the plate corrosion. Allowed to go too far
the corrosion can completely kill the battery by severing the internal
connections.
It might be interesting to cut one of those Hawkers open and see what
the damage is. Corrosion is easily seen because the gauze plates will
just kinda crumble in your hands. The glass mat should be literally
dripping with electrolyte. If long-term overcharging is the cause
then the mat will be only moist or even just barely damp.
If you don't want to mess with the acid and lead and are curious, ship
me a battery and I'll dissect it and put the photos on my website.
>The other odd thing is you won't find
>a USE truck with very many miles on it. So I think the problem is
>universal. With such a small volume of amps flowing back and forth I
>don't see why the water loss is so high.
If that is the case about the problem being widespread, I'd be looking
directly at the charger. It sure sounds like too much voltage at the
end to me.
>
>Where can I post an Excel spread sheet?
If you just want to send it to me you can use
http://www.yousendit.com. I don't know where you could post to a
public place unless one of the photo sites would accept a spreadsheet
file. I could stick the file on my website if you like. I have
plenty of room.
John
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I've been using those 17ah Hawkers for years on scooter projects. I've
>> found them to be bullet-proof with one exception and that is
>> overcharging. You can very quickly kill one with too much voltage.
>>
>> You need to take a look at the charger's voltage. 1.6 amps is more
>> than enough to kill a Hawker if there is sufficient voltage available
>> to force that through a charged pack.
>>
>> Hawker is very explicit about charging voltage. If you follow their
>> instructions exactly, the batteries will last a long time. I have two
>> scooters using those 17ah Hawkers with over 4 years on them. I have
>> several out in customers' hands.
>>
>> My GoBig scooter uses the 30 ah version and has over 3 years of daily
>> use on them. Relatively severe duty, with >300 battery amps during
>> acceleration being the norm and around 80 amps while cruising at full
>> speed. This scooter has an E-meter and it shows that the pack still
>> has its original capacity. I've never seen another battery that could
>> come even close. Maybe the Optima, though I've not had a chance to
>> use a set long-term.
>>
>> I killed a few Hawkers in the beginning while learning to take what
>> they say about charging to heart. Once I started paying attention I
>> never killed another one.
>>
>> John
>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:44:08 -0000, "Mike Phillips"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi John,
>> >
>> >I have experience to the contrary with the 16ah Hawkers. I own just
>> >over 100 of them. I inherited them with my truck. They only had 400
>> >miles of driving cycles on them when I got the vehicle. After having
>> >tested all of them 3 times with a 40 amp load, they have very little
>> >life left after 5000 miles. The charger only puts out 6.5 amps into
>> >the pack. So average would be 1.625 amps per string. Most of them were
>> >severely low on water. I bought 8 new ones to compare the old ones to.
>> >Most took 10ml of water per cell to come back to nominal weight. Many
>> >took 20ml of water per cell to acheive nominal weight. What would
>> >cause such a loss of water with such light loads and charging?
>> >
>> >Since there are 4 strings of 26, none of the strings are exposed to
>> >much of a load. The truck is limited to 200 amps draw from the pack.
>> >So 50 amps per string is not much stress for a Hawker.
>> >
>> >So I think to their longevity depends on the way they are used. In my
>> >truck they suck. The poor guy who put them in paid $7k. There may be
>> >better uses for them than EV street driving.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Wayland <ev@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dmitri Hurik wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Ok, not exactly EV, but if anybody could help that would be
>cool. I
>> >> > need an AGM battery for starting an ICE lawnmower that has low
>> >> > self-discharge and long life. Probably around the 12-14ah range. I
>> >> > looked at the Hawker Odyssey 13ah.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You'd be hard-pressed to find a better quality battery.
>> >>
>> >> > They claim it's really tough....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> They are 'extremely' tough. Search the EV list archives for my many
>> >> posts about 'the Amazing Hawkers', and many posts from others
>reporting
>> >> the same.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >can sustain being left at 0% charge for weeks/months and still
>> >recover
>> >> ....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hmmm...that's a tall claim. I 'have' had this exact battery taken
>down
>> >> to zero volts and left there for three months, and upon a
>recharge, it
>> >> came back without any cell reversals. Now, did it still have the
>same
>> >> capacity? I doubt it. You can't get away from permanent sulfation.
>> >> In general, it's never good for any lead acid battery to do this.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >and sit for years...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This is absolutely true with Hawkers. I have quite a few 8 year old
>> >> Hawker 16 ahr versions that have been sitting for long lengths of
>time
>> >> that still work well. Again though, there is going to be some
>permanent
>> >> sulfation that will occur if you let a battery sit so long unused
>and
>> >> uncharged, so they really can't sit for years and power-up to 100%
>> >capacity.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > ....but for $80+ seems like a bit much for just a 13ah battery.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Not when that same battery can deliver 500+ amps repeatedly
>without any
>> >> noticeable degradation of the battery! 28 of the slightly larger
>16ahr
>> >> version of this battery powered my race car at 750 amps for 13
>seconds
>> >> to a world record back in 2000. Hawker toughness and long life are
>> >> legendary on this EVDL. The internal inter-cell straps are very
>robust
>> >> and can sustain high currents without melting. Small Hawker
>batteries
>> >> can deliver HUGE currents and are worlds away from ordinary
>> >batteries of
>> >> the same size and weight. All of these traits may not be
>applicable for
>> >> you though, for merely starting a lawnmower.
>> >>
>> >> > Speaking of Hawker, what are people's general opinion on Hawker
>> >> > batteries?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> See my web page about White Zombie, for how I feel about Hawker
>> >batteries:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
>> >>
>> >> See Ya......John Wayland
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ---
>> John De Armond
>> See my website for my current email address
>> http://www.johngsbbq.com
>> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
>Emerson
>>
>
>
>
>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
