EV Digest 5274
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Solectria Force peak power (was Re: Early Hawker deaths)
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: LED Headlights and the DOT
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) quartz-halogen lamps to make a current source Re: Looking to build a
badder-boy charger
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 1994 del Sol. Anyone know where it is?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) The batts went flat...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: The batts went flat...
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Values for transformer and other bad boy parts
by "Tom Shjarback" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Values for transformer and other bad boy parts
by "Tom Shjarback" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: What an experience! - no doing that again, drivin' electrics.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Values for transformer and other bad boy parts
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Can Forces really pull 250 amps?
From what I've seen on my '97 Force and heard from a few others is
current limits of 50, 100, and 150 amps for the 3 driving modes
(econonmy/ regular/ power). Or maybe 175 amps in power mode with a full
battery.
If the drive train is good for 250 amps, or 35KW, I'd love to get at
those extra 10 KW of peak power... the hills where I am now are s_t_e_e_p!
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
... Solectria stopped using Hawkers in Forces
in the mid-90s because the charge rate problem caused short life.
Typical drive current on Forces is 40-50 amps at constant 45 mph,
> 250 amps peak under acceleration, and they used two strings of
> Hawkers in parallel.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damn, they should be cheap then....
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
Flat cells. Wow, that's just mind-blowing. Easy to cool, too!
They use "continuous battery" process where jacket material
gets rolled off large spool and chopped off at predefined
lengths before gets filled with active material and edges
fused together. Cell length then is arbitrary and can in theory be any.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These are as cool or cooler than the Stingray. Both tires are large. Not
as large as the Big Boa but good size. Big Lots have them. In Northern
California they have Redwood City, Oakland and San Francisco stores. Would
make a great conversion and the price is right.
http://www99.shopping.com/xGS-huffy%2020%20chopper%20bike~NS-1~linkin_id-3068608~r-1~CLT-INTR
Turns out that this bike was designed by Jessie James.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Huffy-West-Coast-Chopper-20-Bicycle-Jesse-James-NIB_W0QQitemZ7229104976QQcategoryZ64647QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Here is an Ebay listing. Can't seem to find anything lower than about
84bucks. Let me know if anyone finds one at Big Lots.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/West-Coast-Choppers-Jesse-James-Bike-Bicycle-Part-Frame_W0QQitemZ7229127210QQcategoryZ42312QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Just the frame is 30 bucks. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
These are as cool or cooler than the Stingray. Both tires are large. Not
as large as the Big Boa but good size. Big Lots have them. In Northern
California they have Redwood City, Oakland and San Francisco stores.
Would make a great conversion and the price is right.
http://www99.shopping.com/xGS-huffy%2020%20chopper%20bike~NS-1~linkin_id-3068608~r-1~CLT-INTR
Turns out that this bike was designed by Jessie James.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Huffy-West-Coast-Chopper-20-Bicycle-Jesse-James-NIB_W0QQitemZ7229104976QQcategoryZ64647QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Here is an Ebay listing. Can't seem to find anything lower than about
84bucks. Let me know if anyone finds one at Big Lots.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://search.ebay.com/West-Coast-Chopper-Bicycle-Jesse-James_W0QQfromZR40QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQssPageNameZRC0022
It seems you can buy all the parts for this bike seperately. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
http://cgi.ebay.com/West-Coast-Choppers-Jesse-James-Bike-Bicycle-Part-Frame_W0QQitemZ7229127210QQcategoryZ42312QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Just the frame is 30 bucks. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
These are as cool or cooler than the Stingray. Both tires are large.
Not as large as the Big Boa but good size. Big Lots have them. In
Northern California they have Redwood City, Oakland and San Francisco
stores. Would make a great conversion and the price is right.
http://www99.shopping.com/xGS-huffy%2020%20chopper%20bike~NS-1~linkin_id-3068608~r-1~CLT-INTR
Turns out that this bike was designed by Jessie James.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Huffy-West-Coast-Chopper-20-Bicycle-Jesse-James-NIB_W0QQitemZ7229104976QQcategoryZ64647QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Here is an Ebay listing. Can't seem to find anything lower than about
84bucks. Let me know if anyone finds one at Big Lots.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes! Way to go guyz! Looks like Fla is a new EV hotbed of activity!!
Who'd a thunk it? Sleepy Florida; alagaters, beaches, retirement
communities. But Hey! Were looking up now! This is wonderful, as FLA was
SOOOO quiet til a few years ago. Didn't think Matt quite beat Wayland,
though, but he is getting close!! As JW sez, thayt's pretty amazing as
Matt's car is a tad heavier than the Zombie. So, Seth Murray? Got yur ears
on? HE was working on a Datsun, 240 something, too.
This is a great day for us Least Coasters. My hat's off to all you EVers
in FLA!!!
Seeya at the Races.Power of DC is coming!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
> OOOOOOoooo!
> Looks like Matt Graham is the first into the Madman's 100 for 2006. He
beat
> Wayland!.
>
> Madman.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:17 PM
> Subject: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
>
>
> > Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons for their outstanding
> > performances at Moroso Racetrack in West Palm Beach last night! Lowell
> set
> > a new world record of 14.55 seconds in Miramar High School's Porsche
944,
> > beating the previous record by almost 2 seconds! Matt Graham also made
> > history in his Nissan 240SX by being only the third (full-bodied) car
ever
> > to break the 100mph barrier in the quarter mile! It was a great night
for
> > EVs at the track! Racers and fans alike were (literally) blown away by
> > Matt's and Lowell's cars and their performances! We had lots of fun,
> > excitement, high fives and jubilation!
> >
> > Way to go Lowell and Matt!
> >
> > Charles Whalen
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are (to make). Market cost as you know based on
how much you're willing to pay for its benefits for you,
not necessarily how much it cost them to fabricate it.
May be 2x, may be 20x.
Victor
Danny Miller wrote:
Damn, they should be cheap then....
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
Flat cells. Wow, that's just mind-blowing. Easy to cool, too!
They use "continuous battery" process where jacket material
gets rolled off large spool and chopped off at predefined
lengths before gets filled with active material and edges
fused together. Cell length then is arbitrary and can in theory be any.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, I think DOT only applies to headlights in most places. I remember
checking through the AZ rules and for tail lights, etc it only listed
performance requirements. I.e. should be red in color and visible from
xyz distance, etc.
Then again, aside from the "cool" factor, I don't think LED is really
worth the money. After all it will have no real effect on range or
anything so why spend the extra bucks?
> Well I do not know about anyone elses town and what cops look for. But on
> the check list I had when looking into custom built vehicles- I was
> verifiing how hard it would be to register a homebuilt, my DMV inspector
> handed me a check list and it included on that list was Federal D.O.T.
> recognized headlights. Now extra lights for off roading on a overhead
> light bar and fog lamps are exempt from those rules. However it is one of
> the items on the checklist to register the vehicle. And for those who
> question on wheither they have DOT approved headlights you can look on
> your own vehicle and look along the rim and it will have DOT approved
> engraved on the lens. And yes a friend of mine lost his registration till
> the light were swapped with DOT approved headlights. He tried to upgrade
> to HID before they were approved in US. He got them from a European friend
> who shipped them here. The state pulled his registration and it was a
> mess. Again this is an experience a friend had and it wa!
> s a mess.
> Had he waited a year he would not have had a problem.
>
> Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I hate to burst the bubble of
> this exciting topic but unless D.O.T.
>> approved you will not be able to use any of these ideas. If caught you
>> could loose your registration if not your license.
>
> Not very likely. There are MANY non DOT approved lighting packages out
> on the road today. More than there ever have been before. Some locations
> specifically target these for ticketing (not license revocation nor
> registration revocation), but most areas do not. So long as your lights
> are aimed properly and so long as they do the job, many people get away
> with non DOT lights.
>
> There are a dozen or more stores in my town that sell illegal lighting
> packages and I live in a small town. If these really were costing people
> their licenses or their cars, there would not be so many vendors. At
> worst, you get a "fix-it" ticket, and that is if the cop is looking to
> give you a bad time already.
>
> Fortunately, as you rightly pointed out, PEVs are essentially exempt
> from what little scrutiny exists.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> -Ken Trough
> V is for Voltage
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM/YM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 23 Mar 2006
09:14:03 -0800
> Hmmm, looking at this more, it looks like this would work well.
would you use the bicycle odometer? I was thinking the odometer might not
accept the pulses as fast as the chip spits them out.
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it's a great news but calendar life is actually killing this advantage
for long life EV use, 2500 cycles is "useless" if calendar life is maximum 5
years...
let's say 100 miles at 80% DOD cycled battery pack, 2500 cycles give 250 000
miles life so you have to drive 50 000 miles/year (5 years life) and you
have what you paid for...
Kokam pack will certainly result in a fun EV though :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
> Hi Mark,
>
> ProEV's Electric Imp is street legal and I regularly get to drive it on
the
> roads even though racing is it's primary mission. It makes running errands
> pretty entertaining<G>. www.ProEV.com
>
> The car is powered by Kokam's 70 amp-hr lithium polymer cells.
> http://www.proev.com/P1Batt.htm. It's 20kW pack weighs 300 lbs.
>
> Kokam's have been available for over two years. They are pricy but Kokam
is
> reporting that the latest version (with a new cathode design) will now
last
> 1,400 100% discharge cycles (vs. >500 that the cells we (ProEV) have are
> rated at). According to their graphs, 80% discharge cycles have been
tested
> to 2,500 cycles and were still at 94% capacity.
> http://www.kokam.com/english/product/battery_main.html
>
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Freidberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:24 AM
> Subject: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
>
>
> > Is anyone driving a street EV with a commercially available battery pack
> > other then lead-acid or flooded Nicad?
> >
> > Mark
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do quartz-halogen lamps have a positive temperature
coefficient similar to filiment bulbs (making them
emulate constant current sources)? I guess I could
measure someday, but it sounds like you have done that
already.
Thanks,
Steven Ciciora
<snip>
> There's an additional reason to use lamps - they
> make excellent
> constant current sources. Without the lamps you'll
> have to "ride the
> gain" on the variac as the pack voltage comes up.
> You won't have to
> do that with the lamp regulators. Crank the DC
> voltage to wherever
> you want the pack to be and let the lamps regulate
> the current. The
> lamp changes resistance as the voltage across it
> changes and the
> filament cools sufficiently to keep the current at
> its specified draw
> over an amazingly wide range of voltage.
>
> I have a homemade "slightly mis-behaving boy"
> charger that consists of
> a big variac, several Q-H lamps, a huge transformer,
> rectifier and
> filter caps. All mounted on a heavy duty hand truck.
> It's capable of
> 250 amps up to 45 volts with 240 volt input. I
> switch the lamps in
> and out of the transformer primary to regulate the
> output current. I
> used lamps on the primary because they were VASTLY
> cheaper than
> equivalent lamps on the secondary.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little
> minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All!
I spied a red rig, originally done & driven by the
late Jeremy Phillips on the Trading Post. It was via
an estate seller in San Diego.
By the time I inquired about it, the car had been
sold. ($2500! Cool!)
Civics of this model year are my baby, and I'd
like to lend a hand and encourage this buyer to
particiate in the list, get on the EV Album, etc.
Does anyone know who scooped it up? The motor (9"
ADC) had been yanked, but still included in the sale,
and I'm wondering why...
Thanks,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yesterday when I was out for a ride on my EM my NiCad's suddenly went flat
even though the emeter only showed me down 25 ahrs. I was surprised since I
should be able to pull 35+ ahrs out of these no problem. Upon investigation
I figured out that my emeter has been secretly pretending to charge my
batteries at about a .4 amp rate when it is sitting parked in the garage, so
when I left my house I didn't have as much charge as I thought I did. The
emeter is new to me so it is possible that I wired something slightly wrong,
in fact when I double checked the wiring diagram last night I thought that I
may have found the problem. I have a separate 12V battery that runs just
the emeter, so I had the negative post of that battery tied directly to the
negative post of my traction pack. I did it this way because I thought that
this is what others had instructed me to do, but the high voltage EV diagram
in the manual appears to require this connection to be on the load side of
the shunt. Regardless, I switched the connection and still have the phantom
trickle charge.
Does anyone know what causes this. It is not intermittent and always reads
.4 or .5 amps when it should be 0. How do I fix it? The meter seems to be
working great besides this, but since I bought it primarily to be an ahr
counter...
If nothing else, I suppose I could throw a switch across pins 2 and 3 on my
emeter and short those two pins together when I am not actively charging or
discharging.
thanks
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
Does anyone know what causes this. It is not intermittent and always
reads .4 or .5 amps when it should be 0. How do I fix it? The meter
seems to be working great besides this, but since I bought it
primarily to be an ahr counter...
Dig thru the archives, this is a pretty common thread.
The most common cause is noise, make sure you are using good quality
twisted pair wire from the shunt to the emeter, and route it away from
other lines if possible. I like to use the pairs from a stripped piece
of Ethernet patch cord (stranded) since its fairly affordable and has a
high twist per inch ratio.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Philippe,
Yes it's a great news but calendar life is actually killing this advantage
for long life EV use, 2500 cycles is "useless" if calendar life is maximum
5
years...
I wonder what calendar life will turn out to be. These new cells have just
gone on sale but they have been in development for two years. How can
anybody know what will happen in 5 years? Do you have some information about
early signs of calendar life being a problem on the Kokam's? Or have there
been studies done on other lithium polymer cells that we might be able to
guess from?
Our old style pack is over two years old but since we have abused it
thermally while racing, I suspect we would have problems telling if a
problem was age or misuse.
let's say 100 miles at 80% DOD cycled battery pack, 2500 cycles give 250
000
miles life so you have to drive 50 000 miles/year (5 years life) and you
have what you paid for...
It is even more fun if you extend the graph. 2,500 cycles was to 94% of
original capacity. Most battery companies tend to use 80% of original
capacity as the 'replace battery' point. So just continuing the curve would
give 6,000 80% DOD cycles to the 'replace batteries' point. (This is making
the big assumption that there is not some sharper drop off in cycle life
somewhere after the actually tested 2,800 cycle life point.) That would mean
about 600,000 miles on one set of batteries!
Of course, those of theoretical miles which are always shorter than actual
miles <G> but it does make the calendar life question of great interest.
Kokam pack will certainly result in a fun EV though :^)
Yes, indeed!
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
Hi Mark,
ProEV's Electric Imp is street legal and I regularly get to drive it on
the
roads even though racing is it's primary mission. It makes running
errands
pretty entertaining<G>. www.ProEV.com
The car is powered by Kokam's 70 amp-hr lithium polymer cells.
http://www.proev.com/P1Batt.htm. It's 20kW pack weighs 300 lbs.
Kokam's have been available for over two years. They are pricy but Kokam
is
reporting that the latest version (with a new cathode design) will now
last
1,400 100% discharge cycles (vs. >500 that the cells we (ProEV) have are
rated at). According to their graphs, 80% discharge cycles have been
tested
to 2,500 cycles and were still at 94% capacity.
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/battery_main.html
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Freidberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:24 AM
Subject: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
> Is anyone driving a street EV with a commercially available battery
> pack
> other then lead-acid or flooded Nicad?
>
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:12:45 -0600
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom Shjarback wrote:
> > So, can someone tell (or send me a url with the info)
> me what
> > transformer and rectifiers and assorted parts to use to
> build a
> > "bad boy" charger? I have seen a few discriptions, but
> no ratings.
>
> Forgive me, but this is like asking for instructions on
> using a rock as
> a hammer. "Where do I get the rock? What are its
> dimensions? How do I
> use it?"
>
> As the name implies, a 'bad boy' is a bad charger. They
> can be
> dangerous, and can ruin your batteries. They only make
> sense if you know
> what you're doing. If you ask for directions, you've just
> disqualified
> yourself from using one!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, forgive me. Your comment reminds me of elementary
school. I am seeking information, not what you sent.
Please refrain from reading and replying to any of my post
in the future.
Thank you
Tom Shjarback
San Diego
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:12:45 -0600
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom Shjarback wrote:
> > So, can someone tell (or send me a url with the info)
> me what
> > transformer and rectifiers and assorted parts to use to
> build a
> > "bad boy" charger? I have seen a few discriptions, but
> no ratings.
>
> Forgive me, but this is like asking for instructions on
> using a rock as
> a hammer. "Where do I get the rock? What are its
> dimensions? How do I
> use it?"
>
> As the name implies, a 'bad boy' is a bad charger. They
> can be
> dangerous, and can ruin your batteries. They only make
> sense if you know
> what you're doing. If you ask for directions, you've just
> disqualified
> yourself from using one!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm. I charge my truck on 240vac when the pack is down to 290v
loaded, 325v unloaded. Both way under 373v. In fact the pack peaks at
379/380 volts at end of charge. The charger's current output on my
Emeter is less than zero as the charger ramps up.
Mike
> This means that at 240V AC input (which can easily vary 10%) you
> will need to make sure that your lowest battery voltage *ever* when
> starting the charger is 240 x 110% x 1.41 = 373V DC
> If you discharge your battery pack below that voltage and plug the
> charger in, you will get an uncontrolled large current through the
> rectifier-inductor-output diode and blow something....
>
> At 120V AC you have much more room to play with as the minimum
> required battery voltage is 187, which makes it safe with more
> than 18 12V batteries in the pack.
>
> NOTE: you still have only a fixed voltage supply with ripple and at
> low output current it will run into overvoltage, this is not a charger!
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:19 PM
> To: Lee Hart
> Subject: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
>
>
> I was thinking that designing a power supply like the ones shown here
> on the IRF website, could be a great place to start with making a
> power factor corrected charger. I know a power supply would need some
> control circuitry added to act like a charger.
>
> http://ec.irf.com/webulator/ir1150/detail.do
>
> You have to sign up with IRF but it's worth it. This calculator they
> have gives you the values of the compents for a 300w to 4kw power
> supply that is power factor corrected.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: What an experience! - no doing that again
> Hi EVerybody;
Snip a Bit
> But I'd suggest that there would be a big difference between me simply
> telling someone they can't drive my EV (because I feel uncomfortable
> with the idea, etc..)
For most guyz with reasonable conversions, it's part of the fun, to let
somebody ya trust to drive, like ya would with any other car. If they never
drove an EV it is fun to catch the reaction;"how do I start it?" It's "ON"
right now. Step on the juice(gas)I'tll go in any gear"Start in second or
third, it doesn't care."Of course the EV grin of surprise comes early on
when the car just goes. EVen my wife drove the Rabbit a little, but she was
worried. " Do we have enough juice, we aren't gunna be stranded with a dead
battery??"She worried about that alot early on!Her fear that the car would
just STOP, and she wouldn't know what to do, like she wouuld know what to do
if her GAS car stopped.Of course you are sorta nervous at first. What if it
DUZ stop? Can I fix it and go, dignity intact?With my Home Made contacter
controller it died at a stoplite in traffic. Hopped out and pushed in the
clear, tightened the loose wire to the microswitch on the cam controller
that told the BIG relays to do their thing.Only once have I fixed my Raptur,
wire corroded off the control plug. I NEVER woulda found that one in the
dark!The other times the solid state thing crapped out was able to reconnect
about 36 volts worth of batteries to creep home, after taking off my
sweatshirt, balling it up and laying it on top of my line switch contacter
to squeeze it shut when I closed the hood.Can't do THAT with a clutchless
EV!!Crept home at about 20 mph.
But if somebody actually KNEW what was going on in an infernal combustion
engine, yud think they would be reluctent to go anywhere, sitting on gallons
of wildly inflamable GAS!Remember those great scenes in The Movie
"Christine"at the gas station when she got pissed off?
My two amps worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
Hmmm. I charge my truck on 240vac when the pack is down to 290v
loaded, 325v unloaded. Both way under 373v. In fact the pack peaks at
379/380 volts at end of charge. The charger's current output on my
Emeter is less than zero as the charger ramps up.
Okie dokie, however the FETs are being hammered while this is happening.
When the FETs blow up, you will see a momentary *really* big charge
rate, followed by the Dolphin failing as the 240 volts rectified (and
non-isolated) finds the ground through the FET drivers to the +15 volt
transformer winding straight to ground.
At this point your 300 to 15 volt transformer will open, and possibly
catch fire. Don't worry, the Dolphin is sealed, and fireproof from the
outside.
When this happens, replace the FETs, driver, and then build a 300 volt
to 15 volt isolated DC-DC converter. Feed the power into the existing
+15 regulator.
So far I've seen this on two Dolphins personally. Once I get the +15
frob working, they will be back in service.
I'm beginning to think I might also make a mod to all Dolphins that
cross my path consisting of a .1a 300 volt, 10k AIR DC rated fuse in
each of the fet-driver gate lines. That way when the FETs do short, they
will blow the fuse and protect the Dolphin's core.
Chris
Mike
This means that at 240V AC input (which can easily vary 10%) you
will need to make sure that your lowest battery voltage *ever* when
starting the charger is 240 x 110% x 1.41 = 373V DC
If you discharge your battery pack below that voltage and plug the
charger in, you will get an uncontrolled large current through the
rectifier-inductor-output diode and blow something....
At 120V AC you have much more room to play with as the minimum
required battery voltage is 187, which makes it safe with more
than 18 12V batteries in the pack.
NOTE: you still have only a fixed voltage supply with ripple and at
low output current it will run into overvoltage, this is not a charger!
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:19 PM
To: Lee Hart
Subject: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
I was thinking that designing a power supply like the ones shown here
on the IRF website, could be a great place to start with making a
power factor corrected charger. I know a power supply would need some
control circuitry added to act like a charger.
http://ec.irf.com/webulator/ir1150/detail.do
You have to sign up with IRF but it's worth it. This calculator they
have gives you the values of the compents for a 300w to 4kw power
supply that is power factor corrected.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
i think no company will answer you (trustfully) on calendar life of their
lithium batteries, because it's their major drawback.
It's a fact than once assembled, it start to "self-destruct", worst if not
used...
This said one people aswered me, it was Kokam CEO himself during EVS21 :^)
I asked about calendar life of their li-ion cells
He told me something like: our cells are near new but we think you can
expect arround 4-5 years calendar life before real capacity loss.
I asked if capacity loss was significative
he told me: under usual target 80% capacity left.
I asked if half capacity loss was possible
He told me: yes it's possible.
I was pleased to hear such honesty because, few minutes sooner, Saft refused
to answer me on same questions :^)
After significative tests we are aware of how to obtain high cyclic life out
of li-ion (never go under 3,2V, never go upper 4,1V, never more than 45°C,
never store them)
When not in use they are considered stored and they degrade !
Calendar life is matter of stored condition AND chemistry choices/R&D so we
(users) can't make nothing to improve last thing.
We only can limit loss when they are stored (keep them between 0 to 5°C,
half charged) but storing is definitively not a good thing for li-ion,
better using them :^)
In fact to last li-ion seems to need a BMS which include either complete
temperature management and special stored condition management.
best studies i find about li-ion calendar life:
http://www.che.sc.edu/faculty/popov/Publications/RRP5.pdf
http://avt.inel.gov/battery/pdf/final_calendar_life_report.pdf
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
> Hi Philippe,
>
>
>
> > Yes it's a great news but calendar life is actually killing this
advantage
> > for long life EV use, 2500 cycles is "useless" if calendar life is
maximum
> > 5
> > years...
>
> I wonder what calendar life will turn out to be. These new cells have just
> gone on sale but they have been in development for two years. How can
> anybody know what will happen in 5 years? Do you have some information
about
> early signs of calendar life being a problem on the Kokam's? Or have there
> been studies done on other lithium polymer cells that we might be able to
> guess from?
>
> Our old style pack is over two years old but since we have abused it
> thermally while racing, I suspect we would have problems telling if a
> problem was age or misuse.
>
> > let's say 100 miles at 80% DOD cycled battery pack, 2500 cycles give 250
> > 000
> > miles life so you have to drive 50 000 miles/year (5 years life) and you
> > have what you paid for...
>
> It is even more fun if you extend the graph. 2,500 cycles was to 94% of
> original capacity. Most battery companies tend to use 80% of original
> capacity as the 'replace battery' point. So just continuing the curve
would
> give 6,000 80% DOD cycles to the 'replace batteries' point. (This is
making
> the big assumption that there is not some sharper drop off in cycle life
> somewhere after the actually tested 2,800 cycle life point.) That would
mean
> about 600,000 miles on one set of batteries!
>
> Of course, those of theoretical miles which are always shorter than actual
> miles <G> but it does make the calendar life question of great interest.
>
> > Kokam pack will certainly result in a fun EV though :^)
>
> Yes, indeed!
>
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
>
>
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
> >
> >
> >> Hi Mark,
> >>
> >> ProEV's Electric Imp is street legal and I regularly get to drive it on
> > the
> >> roads even though racing is it's primary mission. It makes running
> >> errands
> >> pretty entertaining<G>. www.ProEV.com
> >>
> >> The car is powered by Kokam's 70 amp-hr lithium polymer cells.
> >> http://www.proev.com/P1Batt.htm. It's 20kW pack weighs 300 lbs.
> >>
> >> Kokam's have been available for over two years. They are pricy but
Kokam
> > is
> >> reporting that the latest version (with a new cathode design) will now
> > last
> >> 1,400 100% discharge cycles (vs. >500 that the cells we (ProEV) have
are
> >> rated at). According to their graphs, 80% discharge cycles have been
> > tested
> >> to 2,500 cycles and were still at 94% capacity.
> >> http://www.kokam.com/english/product/battery_main.html
> >>
> >> Cliff
> >> www.ProEV.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mark Freidberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:24 AM
> >> Subject: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Is anyone driving a street EV with a commercially available battery
> >> > pack
> >> > other then lead-acid or flooded Nicad?
> >> >
> >> > Mark
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
OOOOOOoooo!
Looks like Matt Graham is the first into the Madman's 100 for 2006. He beat
Wayland!.
Madman.
Uh....Madman, not to try to take 'anything' away from Matt's
accomplishment, but duh....our track doesn't even open until late April :-)
Living in the same Pacific Northwest area as I do, you of all people
should know this. Unlike balmy Florida, we have to wait for drag racing
weather to return after the Winter's ice and snow, and the early
Spring's rains are behind us.
By the way, when will 'you' make it into your own Madman's 100? ;-)
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
Way to go, Matt and Lowell!
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--- Begin Message ---
What dose this mean about 2 9's vs 2 8' ? Matts car in many ways is far
for a feather light and he's running orbitals , probable not warmed up by
dump charging before the run. So is Matts Ace in the whole the 2 9" motors
?.
Good job Matt , that;s the way to put florida on the ev map :-)
Steve Clunn
Yes, that's terrific, but the slightly lower speed run of 99 mph was done
in a stunning 13.3 second blast! We're talking just 3/10ths away from
running 12s!!! I predicted Matt's machine could run 12's....stay tuned,
it's only a matter of time. A near 3000 lb. EV running low 13's?? That's
quite an accomplishment.
See Ya.......John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
At 09:24 AM 3/24/2006, you wrote:
Lee, forgive me. Your comment reminds me of elementary
school. I am seeking information, not what you sent.
Please refrain from reading and replying to any of my post
in the future.
Thank you
Tom Shjarback
San Diego
First off, just how to make one has been explained more then once in just
the last few months.
A bad boy charger can be build and used safely just like a bottle of nitro
glycerin can be used safely, but it is not something you can learn by email.
Normally they are built with parts that are removed from other projects
that are no longer needed, Mote engineer style. If you do not have a room
or two full of such projects (in a progression from simple low power stuff
to higher EV power scale stuff) you simply do not have the experience
needed to safely make and use one.
You want part ratings, they go something like this. If it gets too hot,
blows smoke, and stops working, use a bigger part next time.:)
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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