EV Digest 5273
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Bizarre Amphour Meter Idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: What an experience! - no doing that again
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Values for transformer and other bad boy parts
by "Tom Shjarback" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Early Hawker deaths (was Re: help choose best AGM battery for
lawnmower)
by "Jay Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Early Hawker deaths (was Re: help choose best AGM battery for
lawnmower)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What an experience! - no doing that again
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: LED Headlights - LED turn and tail lights
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Early Hawker deaths (was Re: help choose best AGM battery for
lawnmower)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: [uselectricar] RE: Early Hawker deaths (was Re: help choose best
AGM battery for lawnmower)
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: My Battery Monitor
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What an experience! - no doing that again
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Values for transformer and other bad boy parts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: advice on my motor coupler
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
16) Thanks for the PS controller & charger issue responses
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Early Hawker deaths (was Re: help choose best AGM battery for
lawnmower)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Any daily drivers using an advanced battery chemistry?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Parts for VW Rabbits
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>> You guys aren't gonna make me disassemble my Milburn's 1921 Sangamo
>> meter are you...?
Neon John wrote:
> I'd LOVE to see the inside of it.
I took apart a 1950's vintage Sangamo DC amphour meter. It looked very
much like a home AC watthourmeter; big round glass case, clockwork
geartrain, all run by a motor. But instead of the AC disk induction
motor, this one's motor looked like a d'Arsonval meter movement, but
with 3 coils and a tiny gold commutator, on a needle shaft with jewelled
bearings. A big PM magnet provided the field.
There was a shunt that converted current to a small voltage. This
voltage powered the motor. Motor speed was proportional to amps, so the
geartrain was calibrated in amphours.
The Sangamo amphour meter ran both ways; up or down. If someone was
serious about doing this, I'd suggest getting a Portescap "Escap" motor.
These are beautiful little Swiss instrumentation motors, complete with
the precision bearings and gold commutators. I have one about 1" long
and 0.5" in diameter. It is nominally a 12v motor, but runs on 0.1v at
2ma no load.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Roland Wiench wrote:
I let only one guy who want to drive my EV, to try it. Of course I had over
42 control switches off and there was about 20 indicators to monitor. After
I went halfway thru the check list which I have in my 2 inch thick note
book, he did not attempt to drive the vehicle.
Kind of scare him. I also have a sound system, that makes a jet engine start
up noise when the motor comes up to speed and then makes a low rumbling
pulsating noise that increases in tempo like something is going to blow.
I told him not to touch that big red switch handle, or you will be out of
here so fast, that you will not know what hit you.
Hmm... but isn't this sort of thing counter-productive to the whole idea
of achieving widespread acceptance/support of EVs in the eyes of the
general public?
After participating in a handful of events/shows with my JeepEV; talking
to many people and giving lots of test rides, I've found that one of the
biggest misconceptions the public still has about EVs is that they are
very weird compared to all "normal cars", and that they are somehow
fundamentally different to drive, in such a way that a "normal" person
couldn't operate them. Of course, I do my best to try and dispel such
myths...
I mean, I too (like many of you all, I presume) find it hard to trust
others to drive my EV, and in fact I'm very selective about who I let
drive it... which makes since as, after all, we've all invested so much
time and effort into our EVs.
But I'd suggest that there would be a big difference between me simply
telling someone they can't drive my EV (because I feel uncomfortable
with the idea, etc..) and me telling someone they can't drive my EV
because it is far too complicated for them, or that they'd get
electrocuted, or that it'll explode, or through using any other
audio/visual effects to scare them away. The difference being that,
IMHO, the former is a valid reason, whereas the latter does little more
than creating or perpetuating FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) about EVs.
Just my 0.333 kWh,
--
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://go.DriveEV.com/
http://www.ACEAA.org/
--------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, can someone tell (or send me a url with the info) me
what transformer and rectifiers and assorted parts to use
to build a "bad boy" charger? I have seen a few
discriptions, but no ratings. Also is there a "bad boy"
design that will take 240 and 120 VAC?
tx
Tom Shjarback
San Diego
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know someone who cut a Hawker in half using just a hack saw. Funny thing
was that it still put out close to six volts out of the half with the
terminals.
I have a Hawker commercial somewhere around here that shows a brand new
Hawker battery being cut in half on a band saw at their manufacturing
facility in Missouri.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Early Hawker deaths (was Re: help choose best AGM battery for
lawnmower)
John,
I was seriously thinking of machining a few of these open. I have a
mill. Maybe just dishcarge one of them slowly to zero volts, then mill
it open around the top. It looks like there is a glue seam around the
top. Knowing the cause of hugely decreased capacity, will help prevent
it when a new set of batts is chosen. The charger goes into CV mode at
around 360 volts and anywhere from 3 amp or less. When it hits 380v, it
is usually at .5 amp or less.
What do you cut your's open with?
If if gets too messy I'll happily send you a couple.
I went thru all 104 of them and weighed and watered them to match my
new Hawkers. So they are full of water for sure. But that won't change
grid corrosion.
Thanks!
Mike
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:50:51 -0000, "Mike Phillips"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Hi John,
> >
> >I will somehow post the graph of my charger's CC/CV curve. I
> recorded
> >it one day to see what it looked like. Maybe you will see some magic
> >bullet in the numbers. But I don't see it. Other than maybe the fact
> >that the ah's are way too small.
>
> I know from experience that you can't kill a Hawker by running it
> down. Usually by leaving the "ignition" switch off and walking away
> from a scooter for awhile, I've run 'em down many times. It may
> (probably) shorten the life but it won't kill 'em. I haven't
> detected
> any loss of life so far.
>
> I know what Hawker says about a minimum charging rate but I'm not
> sure
> that is as important when there is a high discharge rate involved. I
> know that the Badsey scooter came with a 1 amp charger. The first
> thing a lot of people do is replace the ChiCom batteries with
> Hawkers.
> The guy who bought my Badsey is still commuting to work on it, about
> 5
> years later. I think the minimum charge rate applies to float and
> low
> discharge service.
>
> All you need to do to dry out a hawker or any AGM or gell is supply
> enough current to the fully charged battery to exceed its
> recombination rate. At that point, the H2/O2 are liberated, they
> build pressure until the reliefs lift and then they're gone forever.
> There is very little water in these batteries so death can come
> rapidly.
>
> At the same time water is being lost, excess charging can corrode the
> lead. Since the "plates" in a hawker resemble gauze, there is little
> room for error.
>
> I've sorta revived dried out Hawkers by removing the safety caps,
> adding distilled water, waiting a couple of days for the water to
> diffuse through the glass mat and then charging. The full capacity
> never returns because of the plate corrosion. Allowed to go too far
> the corrosion can completely kill the battery by severing the
> internal
> connections.
>
> It might be interesting to cut one of those Hawkers open and see what
> the damage is. Corrosion is easily seen because the gauze plates
> will
> just kinda crumble in your hands. The glass mat should be literally
> dripping with electrolyte. If long-term overcharging is the cause
> then the mat will be only moist or even just barely damp.
>
> If you don't want to mess with the acid and lead and are curious,
> ship
> me a battery and I'll dissect it and put the photos on my website.
>
> >The other odd thing is you won't find
> >a USE truck with very many miles on it. So I think the problem is
> >universal. With such a small volume of amps flowing back and forth I
> >don't see why the water loss is so high.
>
> If that is the case about the problem being widespread, I'd be
> looking
> directly at the charger. It sure sounds like too much voltage at the
> end to me.
> >
> >Where can I post an Excel spread sheet?
>
> If you just want to send it to me you can use
> http://www.yousendit.com. I don't know where you could post to a
> public place unless one of the photo sites would accept a spreadsheet
> file. I could stick the file on my website if you like. I have
> plenty of room.
>
> John
>
>
> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've been using those 17ah Hawkers for years on scooter projects.
> I've
> >> found them to be bullet-proof with one exception and that is
> >> overcharging. You can very quickly kill one with too much
> voltage.
> >>
> >> You need to take a look at the charger's voltage. 1.6 amps is
> more
> >> than enough to kill a Hawker if there is sufficient voltage
> available
> >> to force that through a charged pack.
> >>
> >> Hawker is very explicit about charging voltage. If you follow
> their
> >> instructions exactly, the batteries will last a long time. I have
> two
> >> scooters using those 17ah Hawkers with over 4 years on them. I
> have
> >> several out in customers' hands.
> >>
> >> My GoBig scooter uses the 30 ah version and has over 3 years of
> daily
> >> use on them. Relatively severe duty, with >300 battery amps
> during
> >> acceleration being the norm and around 80 amps while cruising at
> full
> >> speed. This scooter has an E-meter and it shows that the pack
> still
> >> has its original capacity. I've never seen another battery that
> could
> >> come even close. Maybe the Optima, though I've not had a chance
> to
> >> use a set long-term.
> >>
> >> I killed a few Hawkers in the beginning while learning to take
> what
> >> they say about charging to heart. Once I started paying attention
> I
> >> never killed another one.
> >>
> >> John
> >> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:44:08 -0000, "Mike Phillips"
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi John,
> >> >
> >> >I have experience to the contrary with the 16ah Hawkers. I own
> just
> >> >over 100 of them. I inherited them with my truck. They only had
> 400
> >> >miles of driving cycles on them when I got the vehicle. After
> having
> >> >tested all of them 3 times with a 40 amp load, they have very
> little
> >> >life left after 5000 miles. The charger only puts out 6.5 amps
> into
> >> >the pack. So average would be 1.625 amps per string. Most of them
> were
> >> >severely low on water. I bought 8 new ones to compare the old
> ones to.
> >> >Most took 10ml of water per cell to come back to nominal weight.
> Many
> >> >took 20ml of water per cell to acheive nominal weight. What would
> >> >cause such a loss of water with such light loads and charging?
> >> >
> >> >Since there are 4 strings of 26, none of the strings are exposed
> to
> >> >much of a load. The truck is limited to 200 amps draw from the
> pack.
> >> >So 50 amps per string is not much stress for a Hawker.
> >> >
> >> >So I think to their longevity depends on the way they are used.
> In my
> >> >truck they suck. The poor guy who put them in paid $7k. There may
> be
> >> >better uses for them than EV street driving.
> >> >
> >> >Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Wayland <ev@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Dmitri Hurik wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Ok, not exactly EV, but if anybody could help that would be
> >cool. I
> >> >> > need an AGM battery for starting an ICE lawnmower that has
> low
> >> >> > self-discharge and long life. Probably around the 12-14ah
> range. I
> >> >> > looked at the Hawker Odyssey 13ah.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You'd be hard-pressed to find a better quality battery.
> >> >>
> >> >> > They claim it's really tough....
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> They are 'extremely' tough. Search the EV list archives for my
> many
> >> >> posts about 'the Amazing Hawkers', and many posts from others
> >reporting
> >> >> the same.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >can sustain being left at 0% charge for weeks/months and
> still
> >> >recover
> >> >> ....
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Hmmm...that's a tall claim. I 'have' had this exact battery
> taken
> >down
> >> >> to zero volts and left there for three months, and upon a
> >recharge, it
> >> >> came back without any cell reversals. Now, did it still have
> the
> >same
> >> >> capacity? I doubt it. You can't get away from permanent
> sulfation.
> >> >> In general, it's never good for any lead acid battery to do
> this.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >and sit for years...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> This is absolutely true with Hawkers. I have quite a few 8 year
> old
> >> >> Hawker 16 ahr versions that have been sitting for long lengths
> of
> >time
> >> >> that still work well. Again though, there is going to be some
> >permanent
> >> >> sulfation that will occur if you let a battery sit so long
> unused
> >and
> >> >> uncharged, so they really can't sit for years and power-up to
> 100%
> >> >capacity.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > ....but for $80+ seems like a bit much for just a 13ah
> battery.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Not when that same battery can deliver 500+ amps repeatedly
> >without any
> >> >> noticeable degradation of the battery! 28 of the slightly
> larger
> >16ahr
> >> >> version of this battery powered my race car at 750 amps for 13
> >seconds
> >> >> to a world record back in 2000. Hawker toughness and long life
> are
> >> >> legendary on this EVDL. The internal inter-cell straps are very
> >robust
> >> >> and can sustain high currents without melting. Small Hawker
> >batteries
> >> >> can deliver HUGE currents and are worlds away from ordinary
> >> >batteries of
> >> >> the same size and weight. All of these traits may not be
> >applicable for
> >> >> you though, for merely starting a lawnmower.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Speaking of Hawker, what are people's general opinion on
> Hawker
> >> >> > batteries?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> See my web page about White Zombie, for how I feel about Hawker
> >> >batteries:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
> >> >>
> >> >> See Ya......John Wayland
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ---
> >> John De Armond
> >> See my website for my current email address
> >> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> >> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> >> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph
> Waldo
> >Emerson
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> Emerson
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Mar 2006 at 15:42, Neon John wrote:
> I know what Hawker says about a minimum charging rate but I'm not sure
> that is as important when there is a high discharge rate involved.
Is 20 to 125 amps a high discharge rate? Solectria stopped using Hawkers
in Forces in the mid-90s because the charge rate problem caused short life.
Typical drive current on Forces is 40-50 amps at constant 45 mph, 250 amps
peak under acceleration, and they used two strings of Hawkers in parallel.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
Hmm... but isn't this sort of thing counter-productive to the whole idea
of achieving widespread acceptance/support of EVs in the eyes of the
general public?
Counterproductive, yes,, but let's be realistic... most of the people on
the EVDL are techno-geeks, and this kind of thing comes naturally. We
are "hackers" in the old school use of the word. Hackers tend to want
to understand and control technical workings, and enjoy complex things
they can figure out. So a checklist and 42 switchs is just plain silly,
its still fun.
Does that make us good evangelists? Not really.. but did the owners of
the first Altair's really inspire the public either?
I've found at most events II point out that I consider myself
intelligent and mechanically inclined and yet I understand almost none
of the inner workings of my gas car or how to fix it, and worse, the
manufacturer actively works to keep me ignorant. Then I say, but here
is my electric car. A car that I converted myself in my garage without
the aid of hundreds of engineers. The hardest part was figuring out
where to put everything. If it breaks almost of all of the
troubleshooting can be done by anyone with even basic electric knowledge
and a voltmeter. This car is simple enough that it can be understood
and repaired, therefore I truly own this car.
That description seems to resonate with a lot of people who grew up as
shadetree mechanics...
Of course they could be just humoring me.....
back to the lab....
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I scoured Mouser and NewarkOne for a set of Sunbrite LED marker/stop/turn
lights for my VW Cabrio. Red/yellow LED assemblies are about $4 - well
worth not soldering up my own. White LEDs (backup lights) are $11 each!
And it was a major pain to cross reference the filament bulbs to the LED
versions.
The total was about $60 for a full set, including dome lights and license
lights. Power use should drop from 8A max to about 1A with lights, brakes,
and turn signals on.
I finally have all the parts to put my EV together and will have all next
week to work on it. I can let you know how it works out :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Just a quickie, do you put the lamps in *series* or in parallel to
>> the pack?
Neon John wrote:
> I hook 'em in parallel. I have 5 on the charger, each with a switch.
I think you meant that the lamps go in series with the AC input to the
charger. But if there are multiple lamps, they are wired in parallel.
I've got an old bathroom vanity light bar with half a dozen lamp
sockets. I cut an extension cord in half, and wired it to the light bar
so the lamps are all in parallel, but wired in series with the AC black
wire. This way, I can screw in however many bulbs, of whatever wattages
I need to limit the current or power to some device I'm testing.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Interesting!
What was the reason you opened these cells, what was their failure
- were these simply the old (dead) cells in your truck or where
did they come from?
Would these cells have recovered from watering them?
If so many people have trouble with longevity of their batteries
in US Electricar vehicles (because of lack of BMS?) then we are
absolutely interested in finding the cause(s) and solve them, so
we can put more miles on each pack!
regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Early Hawker deaths (was Re: help choose best AGM battery
for lawnmower)
Neon John wrote:
> I know from experience that you can't kill a Hawker by running it
> down. Usually by leaving the "ignition" switch off and walking away
> from a scooter for awhile, I've run 'em down many times. It may
> (probably) shorten the life but it won't kill 'em. I haven't detected
> any loss of life so far.
You can't kill *a* hawker. But if you put a run down hawker in a string,
you will blow it to bits as it reverses and gasses. Big mess.
> It might be interesting to cut one of those Hawkers open and see what
> the damage is. Corrosion is easily seen because the gauze plates will
> just kinda crumble in your hands. The glass mat should be literally
> dripping with electrolyte. If long-term overcharging is the cause
> then the mat will be only moist or even just barely damp.
I have done this with a hammer and chisel. The plates looked good, but
the substrate was dry as a bone.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
Chris,
Interesting!
What was the reason you opened these cells, what was their failure
- were these simply the old (dead) cells in your truck or where
did they come from?
This was one of the second-pack ones. I had dropped it, cracked the
corner, and proceeded to whack it open for the heck of it. It was *dry*.
I watered a bunch of these cells and they did come back a lot of the
way. But I had a new pack in, and to be honest with way-out-of-whack
batteries you *do* need regs to bring them in line. So they do little
odd jobs around the house, like starting cars.
Would these cells have recovered from watering them?
Yes, however if you don't water them the plates will corrode. Without
water the batteries have a very high concentration of H2SO4, which eats
the plates.
If so many people have trouble with longevity of their batteries
in US Electricar vehicles (because of lack of BMS?) then we are
absolutely interested in finding the cause(s) and solve them, so
we can put more miles on each pack!
I think the reason for pack failure is simple: People drive the things
too far or charge too hard. Once you reverse a battery, it's pretty much
doomed. Take the car to 30 miles max in the summer and I think the pack
will last. Time will tell.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:11 AM 3/23/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
How many batterys can it monitor at one time? Expandable perhaps? I'll
have either 26 or 52 batts depending on future choices.
An alternative that is not nearly as fancy, and just tells you when a
battery is Under/Over voltage is my Battery Monitor system.
http://www.casadelgato.com/CasaDelGatoSystems/index_files/Page451.htm
Still being tested by various people, so I haven't been actively pushing it.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Nick,
My EV is a limited proto type research vehicle, where the circuitry can be
rewired for different modes of operation. It is not the standard EV that
all you have to do is turn on the ignition and press the accelerator.
The multiple switches act like a cipher lock system in a anti-theft system.
Of course, I will preset it all up, when I have it to my customize to have
it painted or replace to the new body panels, so all he have to do is turn
the ignition key on and press the accelerator every so slightly after its in
gear and the clutch is release first.
I have yellow sticky notes all other, to warn the him to not depress the
clutch before turning on the ignition. Normally a person will depress the
clutch first before starting up, and if the motor is unload it will over rev
right now to over 6000 rpm, before you can stop it. He did this one time,
because a person depresses the clutch without thinking. When he let go of
the clutch the car jump like it was hit in the back with a semi.
A clutch in a EV acts like a semi-automatic where you do not have to depress
the clutch to change gears if you match the motor rpm to the transmission
rpm.
I can engage the accessory drive that comes off the pilot shaft of the
motor, which then will keep the motor at about 500 rpm idle, which then a
person can de-clutch first if they want to.
The old CableForm controller had a idle control, where all you did was just
turn off the ignition switch and the motor would idle control would reset it
self. The CableForm Controller itself cost over $500.00 to do this type of
control.
The idle control engages the accessory drive so that the motor is loaded and
will not over speed. There is several other control switches that engages
and disengages the accessory drive unit, where every time I let up the
accelerator, the accessory drive is engage which the motor is now provided
mechanical REGEN. with all motor and battery gages showing ZERO amperes.
When the power is apply to the motor, than the accessory drive is engage and
a Honeywell motor generator which runs off the main battery pack to run the
accessory drive system. If my motor generator which also provides 14.5
volts DC goes out, then the main motor can provides the power to drive these
units.
There is a multiple of indicators and control switches to select different
mode of operations.
I now have a Zilla, that requires a ignition and start. I had to control
the idle control with another switch which controls a idle stop on the
Curtis $50.00 accelerator. To shut down, I must first turn off the idle
control first before I turn off the ignition.
To complicated even more, I will be installing a multi-speed transmission,
that I can either select in auto-manual which will start out in 36:1 1st
gear and vary down to 26:1 and 2nd gear from 26:1 to 17:1 and than to 9:1 in
3rd gear and in final gear at 5.57:1.
Or you can select a set ratio for each gear, like a manual transmission
which will be 19.5 in 1st gear, 13.5 in 2nd gear and 5.57 in 3rd gear.
I will be able to manual shift it with a clutch or select it to change
ratios at a pre-select rpm or just let it act like a auto-matic using either
torque control or select rpm control.
There will be three control levers to operate this transmission.
So I would not use a proto type EV as a example for a standard EV. One
would have to be dummy down a EV and computerize it for any person to
operate.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: What an experience! - no doing that again
> Hi,
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > I let only one guy who want to drive my EV, to try it. Of course I had
> > over
> > 42 control switches off and there was about 20 indicators to monitor.
> > After
> > I went halfway thru the check list which I have in my 2 inch thick note
> > book, he did not attempt to drive the vehicle.
> >
> > Kind of scare him. I also have a sound system, that makes a jet engine
> > start
> > up noise when the motor comes up to speed and then makes a low rumbling
> > pulsating noise that increases in tempo like something is going to blow.
> >
> > I told him not to touch that big red switch handle, or you will be out
> > of
> > here so fast, that you will not know what hit you.
>
> Hmm... but isn't this sort of thing counter-productive to the whole idea
> of achieving widespread acceptance/support of EVs in the eyes of the
> general public?
>
> After participating in a handful of events/shows with my JeepEV; talking
> to many people and giving lots of test rides, I've found that one of the
> biggest misconceptions the public still has about EVs is that they are
> very weird compared to all "normal cars", and that they are somehow
> fundamentally different to drive, in such a way that a "normal" person
> couldn't operate them. Of course, I do my best to try and dispel such
> myths...
>
> I mean, I too (like many of you all, I presume) find it hard to trust
> others to drive my EV, and in fact I'm very selective about who I let
> drive it... which makes since as, after all, we've all invested so much
> time and effort into our EVs.
>
> But I'd suggest that there would be a big difference between me simply
> telling someone they can't drive my EV (because I feel uncomfortable
> with the idea, etc..) and me telling someone they can't drive my EV
> because it is far too complicated for them, or that they'd get
> electrocuted, or that it'll explode, or through using any other
> audio/visual effects to scare them away. The difference being that,
> IMHO, the former is a valid reason, whereas the latter does little more
> than creating or perpetuating FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) about
> EVs.
>
> Just my 0.333 kWh,
>
> --
> -Nick
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> http://go.DriveEV.com/
> http://www.ACEAA.org/
> --------------------------
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike,
This is EXACTLY what you will get when taking a large power supply
that needs to be power factor corrected, such as a supply from a
Dell Server or another heavy duty PC.
I have checked the Dell 700W and it splits neatly in 2 PCBs, one is
AC => 400V DC while the other does the 400V to 3.3; 5 and 12V DC/DC
and gives the isolation, as the PFC part is not isolated.
Drawback to this concept is the same as the Dolphin charge controller:
it cannot go LOWER in its output than the peak AC voltage.
This means that at 240V AC input (which can easily vary 10%) you
will need to make sure that your lowest battery voltage *ever* when
starting the charger is 240 x 110% x 1.41 = 373V DC
If you discharge your battery pack below that voltage and plug the
charger in, you will get an uncontrolled large current through the
rectifier-inductor-output diode and blow something....
At 120V AC you have much more room to play with as the minimum
required battery voltage is 187, which makes it safe with more
than 18 12V batteries in the pack.
NOTE: you still have only a fixed voltage supply with ripple and at
low output current it will run into overvoltage, this is not a charger!
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:19 PM
To: Lee Hart
Subject: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
I was thinking that designing a power supply like the ones shown here
on the IRF website, could be a great place to start with making a
power factor corrected charger. I know a power supply would need some
control circuitry added to act like a charger.
http://ec.irf.com/webulator/ir1150/detail.do
You have to sign up with IRF but it's worth it. This calculator they
have gives you the values of the compents for a 300w to 4kw power
supply that is power factor corrected.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shjarback wrote:
> So, can someone tell (or send me a url with the info) me what
> transformer and rectifiers and assorted parts to use to build a
> "bad boy" charger? I have seen a few discriptions, but no ratings.
Forgive me, but this is like asking for instructions on using a rock as
a hammer. "Where do I get the rock? What are its dimensions? How do I
use it?"
As the name implies, a 'bad boy' is a bad charger. They can be
dangerous, and can ruin your batteries. They only make sense if you know
what you're doing. If you ask for directions, you've just disqualified
yourself from using one!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Steve.
Try Martin Sprocket and Gear
http://www.martinsprocket.biz/
They have QD (quick disconnects), MST and regular taperlocks and bushings.
They also have blank weld on hubs.
The QD and MST bushings and hubs allow for many different combinations.
It's nice if you can find someone with stock so you can eyeball them.
Good luck.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> I am in the process of making the coupler between the motor shaft on the ADC
> 9" motor (1.25" diameter with keyway) and my flywheel off the 92 Festiva. To
> save a little money, I plan to use the flywheel as-is and just make an
> adapter
> to attach it directly to the motor shaft. Ideally, what I need is something
> with a taperlock (for a 1.25" shaft) that is about 3.5" in diameter and has
> about 1.5" of length.
>
> The flywheel has six 1/2" bolts on a 2.55" circle. With a 3.25" disc, I only
> have about 0.095" on the outside edge. Also, the inside may be an issue
> because of the geometry of the taperlock, 8 degree draft. I may only be able
> to
> sink the bolts in about 1/2" deep before I start running into the taper. I
> ordered a sprocket from mcmastercarr.com
> <A
> HREF="javascript:document.ToFindASP.searchstring.value='2590K22';document.ToFind
> ASP.submit();">2590K22</A> Taper-Lock Bushing-Bore Steel Sprocket For #35
> CHAIN,3/8"PITCH,32
> Teeth,uses 1610 Bushing.
>
> It may work, but I think it may be a little weak. I also will need a spacer
> (.125" thick disc 3.25" in diameter with the same bolt pattern to offset the
> motor shaft from the bearing in the flywheel. The thing isn't flush like I
> thought it was. That makes things even more complicated.
>
> Before I start machining on the sprocket that I got and putting all those
> holes in it, does anyone have a recommendation for a better / different
> taperlock
> part that has a slightly larger diameter and length so that I have a little
> more meat to work with.
>
> I need to get this thing built by next Friday afternoon, so if you have any
> ideas, please e-mail me quickly because I need time to get the part on order,
> and it will take me at least a few hours to machine it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to all you folks for helping clear things up for these 2 issues. The
NLG3 charger was malfunctioning, in fact it wasn¹t putting out any charge.
Greg and his technician at Zivan in Sacramento did repair the unit. It cost
$200. He also upped the amperage setting to better charge my new higher Ahr
batteries.
The PS issue is still there, but I have at least one viable solution at
hand.
Thanks again.
Jacob Harris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:13:10 -0500, "David Roden (Akron OH USA)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 23 Mar 2006 at 15:42, Neon John wrote:
>
>> I know what Hawker says about a minimum charging rate but I'm not sure
>> that is as important when there is a high discharge rate involved.
>
>Is 20 to 125 amps a high discharge rate? Solectria stopped using Hawkers
>in Forces in the mid-90s because the charge rate problem caused short life.
>Typical drive current on Forces is 40-50 amps at constant 45 mph, 250 amps
>peak under acceleration, and they used two strings of Hawkers in parallel.
>
No idea. Just a theory of mine based on experience. Loading varies
on my vehicles from 90 amps max for a dual motor Currie scooter to
>450 amps on the GoBig. The Badsey had the lowest charging rate with
the built-in 1 amp charger. I'm afraid of my fuzzy memory but it
seems like the max amps through the controller was about 100. I'd
installed a "turbo" controller bypass contactor which, of course,
jacked the amperage up significantly, probably in the 150-175 amp
range. Since those are among the longest lived Hawkers that I have
personal experience with, I tend to think that the important thing is
to have heavy current going one way or the other, in or out.
I'd be very hesitant to use the Force experience nowadays. That's a
decade ago. When I got into EVs I had to be convinced that Hawkers
were worth a crap at all. I'd had horrible experiences with the
battery type when Gates was making them. In the late 70s/early 80s
Gates REALLY screwed the pooch!
One of the projects my company did for one of my nuclear plant clients
was to replace thousands of 12 volt Gates Cyclon packs in fire
protection control panels with gell batteries. The Cyclons completely
and totally died after only a couple of years of standby service. Died
as in 0.0 volts on the terminals when removed.
I wasn't interested very much in battery technology back then so I
never found out what caused the failure. I only know that we
installed a retrofit kit in each panel that consisted of a new charger
control board and the Gell battery.
At the time I didn't attribute the problem to the Gates batteries
themselves. I thought the concept to be cool so I bought new Cyclons
to use in a variety of homemade amateur radio transceivers. They also
died hard! I used the Gates-recommended trickle charging currents and
voltages.
That pretty much burned me out on Gates. It was only after so many
people raved about the Hawker Genesis that I got some and experimented
and saw how good they'd gotten. I can't help but think that the
battery and/or manufacturing technology has improved in 10 years.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
Flat cells. Wow, that's just mind-blowing. Easy to cool, too!
They use "continuous battery" process where jacket material
gets rolled off large spool and chopped off at predefined
lengths before gets filled with active material and edges
fused together. Cell length then is arbitrary and can in theory be any.
I saw Kokam makes cells up to 240AH. Not clear on the shape, though.
Same.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons for their outstanding
performances at Moroso Racetrack in West Palm Beach last night! Lowell set
a new world record of 14.55 seconds in Miramar High School's Porsche 944,
beating the previous record by almost 2 seconds! Matt Graham also made
history in his Nissan 240SX by being only the third (full-bodied) car ever
to break the 100mph barrier in the quarter mile! It was a great night for
EVs at the track! Racers and fans alike were (literally) blown away by
Matt's and Lowell's cars and their performances! We had lots of fun,
excitement, high fives and jubilation!
Way to go Lowell and Matt!
Charles Whalen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:53 PM 3/22/2006 -0700, you wrote:
Does anyone have a favorite place to get parts for VW Rabbits?
I need a genuine German door handle, wiper arms (not just blades) and trim
clips for my 85 Cabriolet (The Wabbit.) The places I used to get parts are
no longer selling water-cooled VW parts.
Thanks in advance
Bill Dube
Bill, try http://www.faroutparts.com/
and http://www.veeparts.com/
Also Ebay but be wary of the outer door handles there, I think some are
junk from Taiwan.
You may be able to find some good used German ones on Ebay.
And yes the junk yards of So Cal have quite a few good old Rabbits, Jettas,
etc.
http://www.vdubjunkie.com/
http://www.interstateusedparts.com/
http://www.germanpartshaus.com/
George S
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OOOOOOoooo!
Looks like Matt Graham is the first into the Madman's 100 for 2006. He beat
Wayland!.
Madman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:17 PM
Subject: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
> Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons for their outstanding
> performances at Moroso Racetrack in West Palm Beach last night! Lowell
set
> a new world record of 14.55 seconds in Miramar High School's Porsche 944,
> beating the previous record by almost 2 seconds! Matt Graham also made
> history in his Nissan 240SX by being only the third (full-bodied) car ever
> to break the 100mph barrier in the quarter mile! It was a great night for
> EVs at the track! Racers and fans alike were (literally) blown away by
> Matt's and Lowell's cars and their performances! We had lots of fun,
> excitement, high fives and jubilation!
>
> Way to go Lowell and Matt!
>
> Charles Whalen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Charles Whalen wrote:
Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons for their outstanding
performances at Moroso Racetrack in West Palm Beach last night!
I second that!
Lowell set a new world record of 14.55 seconds in Miramar High
School's Porsche 944,
beating the previous record by almost 2 seconds!
14's is moving! There's many classic muscle car guys that would be
seeing Lowell's EV's taillights!
Matt Graham also made history in his Nissan 240SX by being only the
third (full-bodied) car ever
to break the 100mph barrier in the quarter mile!
Yes, that's terrific, but the slightly lower speed run of 99 mph was
done in a stunning 13.3 second blast! We're talking just 3/10ths away
from running 12s!!! I predicted Matt's machine could run 12's....stay
tuned, it's only a matter of time. A near 3000 lb. EV running low 13's??
That's quite an accomplishment.
See Ya.......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
