EV Digest 5277
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The batts went flat...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Can Seattle and King County control Global Warming
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: The batts went flat...
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: My Battery Monitor
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) High Voltage Nationals Plea
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Multi charger.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 1994 del Sol. Anyone know where it is?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote
If the E-meter is powered by a separate 12v battery, then this battery
should connect to the E-meter's + and - supply terminals. The negative
does NOT go to the propulsion battery's negative.
OK, now I'm confused. This statement directly conflicts what I thought
others told me, and seems to contradict the diagram I see in the manual
although there is not a diagram that 100% addresses my setup.
I have a separate 12V battery who's sole purpose is to power the emeter.
I'm using this because I had it handy and have a convenient place to mount
it, and I did not want to spend the 30 bux for a separate DC 2 DC converter
to provide isolation. I also have a DC 2 DC converter that runs my 12V
system. It's negative lead is tied to the frame of the bike, but it is not
being used to power the emeter or charge my emeter supply battery. I simply
charge my emeter supply battery with it's own charger when I am charging
anytime I charge my motorcycle. I was told that in order to use a separate
12V battery to power the Emeter it's negative post needed to be tied to the
negative side of the traction pack. Also I can see in the diagram in the
manual which uses an isolation DC 2 DC a connection from the negative side
of the isolation DC 2 DC to the load side of the shunt.
I only have the sense wires hooked to the sense leads on the shunt. There
are no connections on the battery side of the shunt except for the one
connecting it to the traction pack.
I did have the negative side of my emeter supply battery tied directly to
the negative post on my traction battery, but last night I moved that over
to the load side of the shunt with no change in results.
Unlike certain unnamed newbies on this list, I always listen closely to what
Lee has to say as he is almost never wrong. So is there anyone that
disagrees with Lee that I do not need any connection between my emeter
supply battery and my traction battery? It's possible that I misunderstood
those that told me this was a requirement. Is there any chance that
removing this connection just to test Lee's proposal will blow up my emeter?
I'm generally a just try it and see if it works kind of guy, but not with
something known to be as fragile as an emeter.
Also remember, my problem is that my emeter is reporting that my battery is
getting a very small charge when in fact there is no charging happening.
thanks for the input
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry about that Roger. I was at a Combat Robotics contest the other
night, and the 3 hours of sleep I got is still effecting me. Not to
mention the pounding techno music for 8 hours. Yuk. The 340lb bot I was
driving has 10kw capacity.
The Dolphin software has a minimum on DC pack voltage variable. It's
default is 90vdc in the trucks, lower in the cars. Trucks have 26
battery strings and the cars have 25 battery strings. Although the
truck and software can handle 25, 26, or 27 battery strings. The
variable schane according to the number of batts selected. WE really
should make the charger schematic available for this discussion. You'd
have to join our group at present. I'll upload this stuff to my website
so we're all on the same page.
There is also a variable for a minimum AC voltage threshold and maximum
AC voltage threshold as well.
Great idea using a 400v PFC front end with a buck setup for control!
Mike
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> > The Dolphin software has a minimum on AC voltage variable in
> > software. It's threshold is 90vdc minimum at the pack for the
> > charger to startup. So it's clear that the designers thought
> > of these things.
>
> This sounds a bit confused. You mention a minimum on "AC" voltage
> parameter, but then state that its threshold is 90vdc minimum at the
> pack, which sounds like a minimum battery voltage value.
>
> I can understand the charger having both parameters, but not using
> one
> for both purposes.
>
> > It's just funny that the charger is basically boost only.
>
> Yes, this is odd, considering that the designers apparently knew it
> would have to handle charging battery packs whose voltage is less
> than
> the peak line voltage.
>
> > I think that a pfc supply is a good foundation for the power
> > side of a charger. I'm starting there for my own education.
>
> I agree. A straightforward approach is a PFC pre-regulator to
> provide a
> non-isolated ~400VDC bus and then an isolated buck convertor to
> provide
> current and voltage control for whatever the pack voltage happens to
> be.
>
> Chris,
>
> > The problem with the Dolphin is kinda related to their solution.
>
> An interesting band-aid; I understand the problem better now.
>
> > > including that the output of a PFC pre-regulator boost
> > > convertor has "lots" of 120Hz ripple, something sealed
> > > batteries do not want.
> >
> > I believe that it is. They have a ton of filters on the
> > input side to prevent this IIRC. They also have pretty
> > good power factor if I recall correctly; I'll check again
> > tonight with my meter.
>
> Filters on the input side will do nothing for this. The problem is
> due
> to the fact that the PFC *is* good; good PFC means that the input
> current is sinusoidal at 60Hz (and is in phase with the input line
> voltage). This is achieved by the boost convertor *forcing* its
> output
> current to be a rectified 60Hz sine wave, which results in 120Hz
> ripple
> on the 400V bus. If the output of the boost convertor feeds the
> batteries directly then there will be 120Hz ripple seen by the
> batteries. Placing another conversion stage, such as a buck
> convertor,
> between the 400V bus and the batteries allows the buck convertor to
> reject a large amount of the 120Hz ripple and provide the batteries
> with
> near pure DC.
>
> > > A better solution to this problem might be putting a
> > > relay/contactor in that will prevent the charger from
> > > starting unless the pack voltage is above some minimum
> > > level.
>
> > Right. They did anticipate this, but with a FET instead
> > of a relay. But you need a really big FET to take these
> > sorts of pulses. A standard 30a one will not cut the
> > mustard.
>
> There is a significant difference between what they did and what I am
> suggesting. My suggestion is to have a relay/contactor powered by
> the
> battery such that if the battery voltage is below some level, the
> Dolphin is not allowed to charge at all. Their solution was to try
> to
> allow the Dolphin to operate in a reduced manner if the battery was
> below some level, and their approach results in the charger
> experiencing
> stresses it cannot survive.
>
> Given your description of their eventual "solution" of a 240<->208
> transformer, I would revise my suggestion to using a relay whose coil
> is
> powered from the battery pack to switch a 240<->208 transformer into
> the
> input side of the Dolphin when pack voltage is below some level and
> line
> voltage is above some level. This way the input voltage is not
> reduced
> except when necessary to protect the charger from damage. The
> 240<->208
> transformers are autotransformers and are relatively compact (a
> 7.5kVA
> unit comes in a metal box less than 6"x6"x10" and weighs just a few
> pounds) and cheap, so this might not be too ugly a kludge.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Local PBS Radio Station to discuss Global Warming -
1 pm Pacific Std. Time.
They STREAM on the WEB, and have a Toll Free 800 number, so any one
any where could CALL-IN and make the EV and PHEV PITCH !! I'll be
using my Rapid-Re-Dial Button....(also send them an e-mail already as
well...)
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Kuow-conversation] The Conversation 3/24/06 - Can Seattle and
King County stop global warming?
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:04:53 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The Conversation with Guy Nelson for Ross Reynolds.
Can Seattle and King County stop global warming?
Friday, March 24, 2006
1:00 pm on KUOW: 94.9 FM, in HD Radio, and on kuow.org
10:00 pm / 3:00 am on KUOW2: in HD Radio and on kuow.org (All times
Pacific)
Listen to past shows in The Conversation audio archive.
http://www.kuow.org/TheConversation.asp. Call-in numbers: (206)
543-5869, toll-free: (800) 289-5869.
Today, Seattle is announcing a plan to slow global warming here in the
Northwest. Earlier this week, King County unveiled its plan to combat
global warming. A key tenet of both plans is to reduce greenhouse gases
by getting people to use transit more and take single-rider car trips
less. Will the promise of a cleaner environment get you out of your car
if it hasn't already? Also, what impact does local policy really have on
a worldwide problem like global warming?
Call in your thoughts before the show to The Conversation feedback line,
(206) 221-3663 or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Join us on the
air by calling (206) 543 KUOW or (800) 289-KUOW.
RESOURCES: (KUOW does not endorse nor control the content as it appears
now or in the future on the website link(s) listed below.)
Seattle to Kyoto: you can't get there by car, The Seattle Times
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002885692_kyoto24m.html
City commits to big cuts in greenhouse gas emissions, The Seattle
Post-Intelligencer http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/264194_warm24.html
Sims plan seeks ways to reduce warming, The Seattle Times
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002883326_warming23m.html
King County's Global Warming Initiative
http://www.metrokc.gov/globalwarming/
Seattle Initiative on Global Warming
http://www.seattle.gov/News/detail.asp?ID=5975&Dept=40
<http://www.seattle.gov/News/detail.asp?ID=5975&Dept=40>
Seattle's Office of Sustainability: Seattle and Climate Change
http://www.seattle.gov/environment/climateinitiative.html
GUESTS (as of 11:00 am PST):
Amy Radil is a reporter for KUOW Public Radio. She was at the Green
Ribbon Commission announcement earlier today.
Kurt Triplett is the Chief of Staff for the King County Executive's
office. The office announced initiaves to deal with global warming
earlier this week.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
> So that means every USE truck has that problem. So by design every USE
> truck main board will die an ugly death, guaranteed.
I'd say every USE vehicle has problems. I don't see any of them that
have accumulated high mileage, or haven't killed their packs well before
they should have.
But will every one fail the same way? Probably not. This particular
failure applies to USE trucks with the Dolphin charger when the
batteries are allowed to run very dead.
> Well gents, until I see someone put a fast current probe and
> thermocouple on the charger, prove these massive current spikes exist,
> and are a threat to longevity, I will continue charging until it blows
> up.
I've designed high power chargers, and know that these problems are
real. Inrush current spikes on PFC front ends are well covered in the
literature. It sounds like the Dolphin engineers knew about the problem,
and implemented a solution; but the solution was less than perfect. So,
there is still a "weak link" in the design. I doubt they had enough
testing time, and never got any feedback from the field on failures. So
the problem couldn't be corrected in any subsequent designs.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad
judgement :-)
> I do agree that a fuse for the gate of the fets is a good idea. I
> rebuild fet based motor controls and I see the fets take out the
> driver circuit to one degree or another practically every time.
On the designs I've seen, the small series resistor in the gate used to
suppress ringing is sometimes sized to be your fuse.
If there's a fuse to open the gate, there should also be a pulldown
resistor from gate to source to keep the transistor off if that fuse
ever blows.
How about sharing some of the driver circuits and their failures you've
seen? I'm an engineer. I look at every failure as an opportunity to
learn what NOT to do!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have a separate 12V battery who's sole purpose is to power
> the emeter.
> I was told that in order to use a separate
> 12V battery to power the Emeter it's negative post needed to
> be tied to the negative side of the traction pack.
> So is there anyone that disagrees with Lee that I do not
> need any connection between my emeter supply battery and
> my traction battery?
I agree with Lee. You do not need to make this connection as it is made
internally by the E-Meter. If you provide an external connection
between the supply battery negative and the traction pack negative, then
you provide a possible path for a ground loop current. Without the
external connection, you have a star ground type of scheme with the
supply and pack grounds tied together at a single point (internal to the
E-Meter).
> Also remember, my problem is that my emeter is reporting that
> my battery is getting a very small charge when in fact there
> is no charging happening.
This simply means that the current sense connections are seeing a small
positive voltage error. If the voltage were negative, then it would
report a slow discharge instead.
The same sort of problems (loose/poor/oxidised contacts, or current
being drawn through a current sense connection) can cause either
symptom.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll get this stuff on my website for reference.
Mike
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > So that means every USE truck has that problem. So by design every
> USE
> > truck main board will die an ugly death, guaranteed.
>
> I'd say every USE vehicle has problems. I don't see any of them that
> have accumulated high mileage, or haven't killed their packs well
> before
> they should have.
>
> But will every one fail the same way? Probably not. This particular
> failure applies to USE trucks with the Dolphin charger when the
> batteries are allowed to run very dead.
>
> > Well gents, until I see someone put a fast current probe and
> > thermocouple on the charger, prove these massive current spikes
> exist,
> > and are a threat to longevity, I will continue charging until it
> blows
> > up.
>
> I've designed high power chargers, and know that these problems are
> real. Inrush current spikes on PFC front ends are well covered in the
> literature. It sounds like the Dolphin engineers knew about the
> problem,
> and implemented a solution; but the solution was less than perfect.
> So,
> there is still a "weak link" in the design. I doubt they had enough
> testing time, and never got any feedback from the field on failures.
> So
> the problem couldn't be corrected in any subsequent designs.
>
> Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad
> judgement :-)
>
> > I do agree that a fuse for the gate of the fets is a good idea. I
> > rebuild fet based motor controls and I see the fets take out the
> > driver circuit to one degree or another practically every time.
>
> On the designs I've seen, the small series resistor in the gate used
> to
> suppress ringing is sometimes sized to be your fuse.
>
> If there's a fuse to open the gate, there should also be a pulldown
> resistor from gate to source to keep the transistor off if that fuse
> ever blows.
>
> How about sharing some of the driver circuits and their failures
> you've
> seen? I'm an engineer. I look at every failure as an opportunity to
> learn what NOT to do!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your memory is as bad as mine John ;) I have 4 sets of your monitoring
hardware that I just finished building. I have just the dash stuff to
build anyway.
Mike
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 10:11 AM 3/23/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> >How many batterys can it monitor at one time? Expandable perhaps?
> I'll
> >have either 26 or 52 batts depending on future choices.
>
> An alternative that is not nearly as fancy, and just tells you when a
>
> battery is Under/Over voltage is my Battery Monitor system.
> http://www.casadelgato.com/CasaDelGatoSystems/index_files/Page451.htm
> Still being tested by various people, so I haven't been actively
> pushing it.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> Given your description of their eventual "solution" of a 240<->208
> transformer, I would revise my suggestion to using a relay whose coil
> is powered from the battery pack to switch a 240<->208 transformer
> into the input side of the Dolphin when pack voltage is below some
> level and line voltage is above some level.
A transformer, even an autotransformer is a pretty big and heavy
"solution". If I was going to add one, I'd make it a true isolation
transformer. It is common for them to have lower-voltage taps.
However, if the real problem stems from having to charge a very dead
pack, I would look for a better solution that would work no matter how
low the pack was.
A battery that is just dead (and not shorted or defective) only requires
a low charging current to "bounce back" to a voltage reasonably close to
normal. So, the simplest solution would be to add some kind of resistor
between the charger and battery. It could be physical power resistor,
light bulb, heating element, etc.
Use the contactor Roger suggested to sense pack voltage; if too low, its
contacts switch in the resistor. The charger will start up normally, and
see a pack that is near full voltage and drawing low current. This is a
normal condition for any AGM or gelcell pack that is at 0% SOC (very
dead). They initially look almost like an open circuit, but the current
gradually rises and the voltage drops over time, until it gets back into
"normal" charging behavior around 10% SOC.
This is a whole-pack version of the
high-voltage-and-light-bulb-in-series method of recovering a dead AGM or
gel cell.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As most of you know,
Route 66 Raceway in Joliet, Illinois will be holding the HIGH VOLTAGE
NATIONALS May 13, 2006.
However, this might NOT happen if we don't have at least 20 participants
racing in the EVent. The "powers to be" at the track will chop the
EVent due to a low turnout. So, this plea goes out to any and all who
are thinking about showing up to please register at our web sight
www.fveaa.org or contact me John Emde at [EMAIL PROTECTED] by
Monday 3/27/06 at the latest. Also, if you know any NEDRA "record"
holder, have them contact me directly as we have a sweet deal for them.
Record holders that have committed so far are John Wayland, Bill Dube',
Jack Knofp, Darin Gilbert, and Brigham Young Univ. This is your chance
to rub elbows and fenders with the best in their class. HVR's "Aggravated
Battery" dragster will also be there.
There is NO entry fee for any EV. Prizes include trophies and cash
awards.
The event is being organized by High Voltage Racing, the Fox Valley
Electric Auto Association (FVEAA) and is sanctioned by the National
Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA).
All pure electric vehicles (2, 3, and 4 or more wheels) are invited to
participate, either as a static display or drag race in the NEDRA event.
All alternative fuel vehicles (cng, hydrogen, propane, bio diesel,
veggie
oil, steam, etc.) and hybrids of all makes and fuels are also
welcome to participate as part of the Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AVF)
Expo
which is also being held at the Route 66 Raceway.
This is in conjunction with the Joliet Township High School's (JTHS)
Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AVF) Expo.
The event will also be held in conjunction with the 5th EVer EAA
All-Chapters Conference that same weekend from May 12 to 14th which will
also be hosted by the FVEAA. The 5th EVer is a gathering of EAA Chapters
to conference about opportunities to promote and develop EVs.
Check the web sight for more details as they become available.
FVEAA www.fveaa.org
Thanks again
John Emde
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes Lee. But you are disregarding the cool factor. Lawrence
Rhodes..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
These are as cool or cooler than the Stingray. Both tires are large.
Not
as large as the Big Boa but good size. Big Lots have them. In Northern
California they have Redwood City, Oakland and San Francisco stores.
Would
make a great conversion and the price is right.
Isn't this just promoting style over substance? It's no doubt heavy,
with high rolling resistance, and harder to ride than a normal bike.
Probably made in China, too. I would think it would be a *bad* choice to
make into an Ebike.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> A transformer, even an autotransformer is a pretty big and
> heavy "solution". If I was going to add one, I'd make it a
> true isolation transformer. It is common for them to have
> lower-voltage taps.
While this is true in principle, the 240<->208 autotransformer is *much*
smaller and lighter (and perhaps most importantly, cheaper ;^) than any
isolation transformer of similar power I've seen. The 7.5kVA model I
referred to is, relatively speaking, tiny and light (probably about
10lbs).
That said, it appears that the Dolphin is a relatively wimpy 2.2kW
(@240VAC), and a 2kVA isolation transformer is much smaller, lighter,
and cheaper than a 7.5kVA model so it could be a reasonable alternative.
I'm assuming that the Dolphin is at least and isolated boost topology
and so doesn't require an isolation transformer for isolation...
> Use the contactor Roger suggested to sense pack voltage; if
> too low, its contacts switch in the resistor.
> This is a whole-pack version of the
> high-voltage-and-light-bulb-in-series method of recovering a
> dead AGM or gel cell.
I like it! Personally, I'd reverse the function of the relay; that is,
the resistor would be in series with the output at all times and the
relay contacts would short it out if/when the pack voltage is high
enough. (Perhaps this is what you had in mind also, but stated
differently.)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ummm USE US electicCar???
What kind of charger did they have?
Lester's where very conservative, and they erred on the under charge, This
of course has it's issues when the lead gets old.
I gathered this from years of list listening, I have never actually had a US
electicar in my hand for EValutation.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rich Rudman" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
> Good points.
>
> Rich, Didn't you once say that the USE vehicles are usually
> undercharged? Just curious what expereince you have had with them.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Folks the solution is a Opto coupled gate drive circuit. You kill
> the gate
> > driver and not the rest of the powerstage, and logic.
> >
> > Fuses won't be fast enough. Fuses at this speed put out the fire.. and
> > that's about it.
> >
> > The better idea is to find out what is deficient in the gate drive
> and the
> > physics of the Fet/IGBT that cause them to fail.
> > Fix it.
> > Band-aids only work so well.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:09 AM
> > Subject: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy charger)
> >
> >
> > > So that means every USE truck has that problem. So by design every USE
> > > truck main board will die an ugly death, guaranteed.
> > >
> > > Well gents, until I see someone put a fast current probe and
> > > thermocouple on the charger, prove these massive current spikes exist,
> > > and are a threat to longevity, I will continue charging until it blows
> > > up. As an R & D guy I need proof and facts. Just my nature. I plan on
> > > putting a current probe on my scope to look into this issue, but
> > > that's a ways off.
> > >
> > > I do agree that a fuse for the gate of the fets is a good idea. I
> > > rebuild fet based motor controls and I see the fets take out the
> > > driver circuit to one degree or another practically every time. Maybe
> > > even an MOV and a fuse.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <ev@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > > > Hmmm. I charge my truck on 240vac when the pack is down to 290v
> > > > > loaded, 325v unloaded. Both way under 373v. In fact the pack
> peaks at
> > > > > 379/380 volts at end of charge. The charger's current output on my
> > > > > Emeter is less than zero as the charger ramps up.
> > > >
> > > > Okie dokie, however the FETs are being hammered while this is
> > > happening.
> > > > When the FETs blow up, you will see a momentary *really* big charge
> > > > rate, followed by the Dolphin failing as the 240 volts rectified
> (and
> > > > non-isolated) finds the ground through the FET drivers to the
> +15 volt
> > > > transformer winding straight to ground.
> > > >
> > > > At this point your 300 to 15 volt transformer will open, and
> possibly
> > > > catch fire. Don't worry, the Dolphin is sealed, and fireproof
> from the
> > > > outside.
> > > >
> > > > When this happens, replace the FETs, driver, and then build a
> 300 volt
> > > > to 15 volt isolated DC-DC converter. Feed the power into the
> existing
> > > > +15 regulator.
> > > >
> > > > So far I've seen this on two Dolphins personally. Once I get the +15
> > > > frob working, they will be back in service.
> > > >
> > > > I'm beginning to think I might also make a mod to all Dolphins that
> > > > cross my path consisting of a .1a 300 volt, 10k AIR DC rated fuse in
> > > > each of the fet-driver gate lines. That way when the FETs do short,
> > > they
> > > > will blow the fuse and protect the Dolphin's core.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>This means that at 240V AC input (which can easily vary 10%) you
> > > > >>will need to make sure that your lowest battery voltage *ever*
> when
> > > > >>starting the charger is 240 x 110% x 1.41 = 373V DC
> > > > >>If you discharge your battery pack below that voltage and plug the
> > > > >>charger in, you will get an uncontrolled large current through the
> > > > >>rectifier-inductor-output diode and blow something....
> > > > >>
> > > > >>At 120V AC you have much more room to play with as the minimum
> > > > >>required battery voltage is 187, which makes it safe with more
> > > > >>than 18 12V batteries in the pack.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>NOTE: you still have only a fixed voltage supply with ripple
> and at
> > > > >>low output current it will run into overvoltage, this is not a
> > > charger!
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Regards,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Cor van de Water
> > > > >>Systems Architect
> > > > >>Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > > >>Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > > >>Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > > >>Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > > >>Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > > >>Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > > >>From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >>Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > > > >>Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:19 PM
> > > > >>To: Lee Hart
> > > > >>Subject: Good Boy charger (Re: Looking to build a badder-boy
> charger)
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>I was thinking that designing a power supply like the ones
> shown here
> > > > >>on the IRF website, could be a great place to start with making a
> > > > >>power factor corrected charger. I know a power supply would
> need some
> > > > >>control circuitry added to act like a charger.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>http://ec.irf.com/webulator/ir1150/detail.do
> > > > >>
> > > > >>You have to sign up with IRF but it's worth it. This
> calculator they
> > > > >>have gives you the values of the compents for a 300w to 4kw power
> > > > >>supply that is power factor corrected.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Mike
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hear ya!
At the track you don't want any more distractions. Getting a charger
that does it all and lets you race is a BIG plus at the Strip.
3200 lbs and a pair of 8 inch XP motors. Umm We need to talk.. The XP motors
didn't like to RPM very well. Goldie had one...
I have some tricks for ya.
This gives me some hope of getting my Fiero into My own Madman's 100. I have
2 Warp 8s in her right now.. and at 264 Volts.. she hauls butt even with a
Paltry 800 motor amps and Locked into Series mode. I bet she is Faster than
Goldie Already...
Best Bang for the Buck charger is a PFC30.
Serious Racers need a PFC50B and a 12 Kw Genset. For those 15 minute
turnarounds.
Your tires Suck... get some DOT legal Drag radials. Then again.. cheap
tires keep small drive trains in one piece....
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons!
We finally got the 944 down the track with a respectful time. I have been
building 96 and 156 volt cars in school for several years, but going 240 has
definitely been a new mindset. The 944 has a .975 solid driveshaft with 26
splines. We spun the driveshaft splines at Battery Beach Burnout. Since
then we have torn up one transaxle, split the driveshaft to tranxaxle spline
coupler (944's have a stationary driveshaft with one coupler in the front to
the motor and a second factory designed coupler in the rear) and exploded
the chain coupler between our two 8" XP motors. (These were done just
around our school and at my home.. My students can pull all the front
batteries and motors out in 1 1/2 hours now. We machined a beefier front
coupler, welded gussets into the rear coupler and off to Moroso we went. I
had only driven the car home from school and back (30 mile roundtrip) one
time before going to the track. You might guess I was a little apprehensive
about running a h!
ard pass.
We will be leaving April 5th for the EV Challenge in Raleigh NC with this
car. It wouldn't leave much time if we broke. I decided to attempt a soft
launch to minimize coupler distress. My main goal was to test for vibrations
and such. No burnout, Kuhmo 225 50 R16 radials, soft launch, (2.12- 60
ft ) Zilla shifts from series to parallel then it's time to keep the pedal
to the metal. The only problem came when the sunroof decided to come
unlatched at around 90 MPH and the night stars started to shine overhead.
(got it back with only minor scratches) I was very pleased with the 14.55 at
93 MPH. I made a second pass but controller shut down because sli battery
voltage too low. Still was a 15.5 at 89. This would actually be my new
record since time had to be backed up since ont a sanctioned nedra event.
I'm not too worried. There will be more times to come. Thanks for all
those who have helped me get to this point. Not to bad for a 3200 lb car.
Oh yeah Rich I will !
be
getting with you as soon as I can raise some more money. I'm getting tired
of breaking my pack down into two strings and charging one with my 156 Zivan
and the other with an old Lester.
Charles Whalen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Congratulations to Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons for their outstanding
performances at Moroso Racetrack in West Palm Beach last night! Lowell set
a new world record of 14.55 seconds in Miramar High School's Porsche 944,
beating the previous record by almost 2 seconds! Matt Graham also made
history in his Nissan 240SX by being only the third (full-bodied) car ever
to break the 100mph barrier in the quarter mile! It was a great night for
EVs at the track! Racers and fans alike were (literally) blown away by
Matt's and Lowell's cars and their performances! We had lots of fun,
excitement, high fives and jubilation!
Way to go Lowell and Matt!
Charles Whalen
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1ยข/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> There is also a variable for a minimum AC voltage threshold and maximum
> AC voltage threshold as well.
>
> Great idea using a 400v PFC front end with a buck setup for control!
>
> Mike
>
>
Yup this is the concept for our Iso chargers.. the good old 400 volt Boost
PFC front end that we use now but a HF transformer based Buck output stage.
We tried to control the back end... but it would unload the front so fast we
broke the inverter.... a few times.... Now we just drive the Buck inveter at
full PWM and throttle the PFC front end
just like we do with the current crop of PFC chargers.
Also.. our front end is not a Classic PFC Booster... it's a Buck-Boost and
Buckboost two transistor setup... just so we DO have current control into a
short or 0 volt load.
That's why we can bring up a trully Dead pack or evne charge a Ultra
Capacitor pack from Dead.
Hey it's really blowing out need to
get off line
madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When we were at AC Propulsion, the engineer showed us a module that
would go with each battery. It's a charger and regulator in one box.
They have 28 lead acid battery's in their pre lithium vehicles.
It seems to me that regulation and charging are both important factors
in keeping a pack alive. I think making a 60 watt switcher/regulator
for each battery is not a big deal in terms of logistics. That assumes
I don't have 104 batterys ;) Something more like 26, maybe 52.
They could be made about 1/2" thick, so they would fit ok in my box.
How does the idea strike you folks having a charger for each battery,
or a pair of chargers in one box versus having one central charger?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have just been reading up on Buck-Boost stuff today. I understand
your choices. Makes alot of sense. Then being able to drive a dead pack
is a great benefit.
Mike
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > There is also a variable for a minimum AC voltage threshold and
> maximum
> > AC voltage threshold as well.
> >
> > Great idea using a 400v PFC front end with a buck setup for
> control!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> Yup this is the concept for our Iso chargers.. the good old 400 volt
> Boost
> PFC front end that we use now but a HF transformer based Buck output
> stage.
> We tried to control the back end... but it would unload the front so
> fast we
> broke the inverter.... a few times.... Now we just drive the Buck
> inveter at
> full PWM and throttle the PFC front end
> just like we do with the current crop of PFC chargers.
>
> Also.. our front end is not a Classic PFC Booster... it's a
> Buck-Boost and
> Buckboost two transistor setup... just so we DO have current control
> into a
> short or 0 volt load.
> That's why we can bring up a trully Dead pack or evne charge a Ultra
> Capacitor pack from Dead.
>
> Hey it's really blowing out need to
>
> get off line
>
> madman
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hooray for the cool nd cheap!!! I just got two for a bit
more than one at Wally World. It will be a really trick
Electric Trike. More to come, Thanks Lawrence.
Doc in Va.
On 3/24/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes Lee. But you are disregarding the cool factor. Lawrence
> Rhodes..........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:52 AM
> Subject: Re: 59 dollar Huffy 20" Chopper bike.
>
>
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >>
> >> These are as cool or cooler than the Stingray. Both tires are large.
> >> Not
> >> as large as the Big Boa but good size. Big Lots have them. In
> Northern
> >> California they have Redwood City, Oakland and San Francisco stores.
> >> Would
> >> make a great conversion and the price is right.
> >
> > Isn't this just promoting style over substance? It's no doubt heavy,
> > with high rolling resistance, and harder to ride than a normal bike.
> > Probably made in China, too. I would think it would be a *bad* choice to
> > make into an Ebike.
> > --
> > Ring the bells that still can ring
> > Forget the perfect offering
> > There is a crack in everything
> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For a picture and description of a Huffy Chopper bike:
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=18321
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom, I'll be @ my in-laws during spring break, in
Mission Viejo, CA. Congrats on the score, and in the
meantime, pls. read website (see below).
Please call me Monday when you have a chance at
541.226.7138.
peace,
--- Tom Shjarback <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I managed to score that car. It had been in a
> garage for 8
> years about five miles from where I work in San
> Diego. It
> is currently in my garage falling back together. It
> will
> be on the road again in June. What can you tell me
> about
> it, and/or Honda conversions in general?
>
> Thanks for any information you can send my way.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 05:46:34 -0800 (PST)
> Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi All!
> > I spied a red rig, originally done & driven by
> the
> > late Jeremy Phillips on the Trading Post. It was
> via
> > an estate seller in San Diego.
> > By the time I inquired about it, the car had
> been
> > sold. ($2500! Cool!)
> > Civics of this model year are my baby, and I'd
> > like to lend a hand and encourage this buyer to
> > particiate in the list, get on the EV Album, etc.
> > Does anyone know who scooped it up? The motor
> (9"
> > ADC) had been yanked, but still included in the
> sale,
> > and I'm wondering why...
> > Thanks,
> >
> > '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD
> available)!
> > www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe
> came out
> > of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for
> your
> > kids?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection
> > around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
