EV Digest 5284
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: camber
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) thanks
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: High Voltage Nationals Plea
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: High Voltage Nationals Plea
by John Emde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: camber
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: High Voltage Nationals Plea
by John Emde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: camber
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Hydrocaps
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dual voltage output from an Iota DC-DC
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Hydrocaps
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Question about attaching Curtis 1221c to heatsink
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Use new or old Curtis? Was "Heatsink sought for Curtis 1221c"
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Question about attaching Curtis 1221c to heatsink
by "steve ollerton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: camber
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Hydrocaps
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: camber
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Question about attaching Curtis 1221c to heatsink
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Hydrometer and SOC
by "Garret Maki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Hydrocaps
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Peak Detector
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Use new or old Curtis? Was "Heatsink sought for Curtis 1221c"
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) '74 MG electric on eBay
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) MG Video Wanted
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: MG Video Wanted
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>Toe-in if set up wrong, can provide the greatest resistance.
Correct, this is tires rubbing, being pushed "sideways" instead
of rolling in straight line.
>Toe-in is normally set from 1/16 to 3/16 (in inches).
My Prius has 0 toe-in, which is in factory spec.
I understand that most modern cars have only a slight toe-in,
with the factory tolerance larger than the actual toe-in, so 0
is within spec.
Some people want this, because it maximized the driving time in
full electric mode (minimum drag). Some people hate it, because
it can make the steering a bit vague at high speed/straight road,
so they demand a toe-in to tighten up the steering tolerances at
the expense of more resistance.
No impact on safety whatsoever from toe setting (as long as
it's in spec).
Camber/caster are a different story - you want to keep your
tires on the road in a curve and to follow more or less the
direction they are steering iso rubbing them sideways (more
than the actual curve you are taking). It is a dynamic
balance though and only optimal at a certain speed, thats why
higher performance cars with a tight turning radius look so funny
when parked with the wheels turned, they stand on one edge.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: camber
I talk to mine master mechanic about alignment specifications. Zero camber
would be ok, if you are going in a straight line at speed, and turning a
corner at very slow speed.
If you used zero camber and turn a corner at a fast speed to the right, both
wheels at the top will tilt to the right which one wheel will go negative
and the other goes positive. The vehicle can tip over a lot easier when set
up this way.
When turning right at high speed, you want the passenger side top of the
wheel still have some tilt to the left.
Camber is normally set from 1/2 to 1-1/2 positive.
Toe-in if set up wrong, can provide the greatest resistance. Again if you
set the toe-in to zero, the wheels at a speed will tend to either turn
inward or outward every time you hit a bump or uneven surface making the
steering wobble. At a certain high max speed, the toe-in may be closed to
zero at that time.
Toe-in is normally set from 1/16 to 3/16 (in inches).
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McWethy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: camber
> Seems to me I saw something about improving less rolling resistance by
> front
> end alignment that zeroes camber. Any comments on this? Or is it just
> changing camber to accomodate different motor weight?
>
> Dave
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
singoff ev
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John;
I am planning on coming, but unfortunately I do not have a vehicle to run
yet.
If I can help in any other way, let me know.
I am really going to be disappointed if this gets called off.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: High Voltage Nationals Plea
As most of you know,
Route 66 Raceway in Joliet, Illinois will be holding the HIGH VOLTAGE
NATIONALS May 13, 2006.
However, this might NOT happen if we don't have at least 20 participants
racing in the EVent. The "powers to be" at the track will chop the EVent
due to a low turnout. So, this plea goes out to any and all who are
thinking about showing up to please register at our web sight
www.fveaa.org or contact me John Emde at [EMAIL PROTECTED] by
Monday 3/27/06 at the latest. Also, if you know any NEDRA "record"
holder, have them contact me directly as we have a sweet deal for them.
Record holders that have committed so far are John Wayland, Bill Dube', Jack
Knofp, Darin Gilbert, and Brigham Young Univ. This is your chance to rub
elbows and fenders with the best in their class. HVR's "Aggravated Battery"
dragster will also be there.
There is NO entry fee for any EV. Prizes include trophies and cash
awards.
The event is being organized by High Voltage Racing, the Fox Valley
Electric Auto Association (FVEAA) and is sanctioned by the National
Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA).
All pure electric vehicles (2, 3, and 4 or more wheels) are invited to
participate, either as a static display or drag race in the NEDRA event.
All alternative fuel vehicles (cng, hydrogen, propane, bio diesel, veggie
oil, steam, etc.) and hybrids of all makes and fuels are also welcome to
participate as part of the Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AVF) Expo which is
also being held at the Route 66 Raceway.
This is in conjunction with the Joliet Township High School's (JTHS)
Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AVF) Expo.
The event will also be held in conjunction with the 5th EVer EAA
All-Chapters Conference that same weekend from May 12 to 14th which will
also be hosted by the FVEAA. The 5th EVer is a gathering of EAA Chapters to
conference about opportunities to promote and develop EVs.
Check the web sight for more details as they become available.
FVEAA www.fveaa.org
Thanks again
John Emde
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John
We got about 10 local club members committed to bring their cars.
It seems a lot of people are confused. about the NEDRA EVent. Let me
make this clear, one does not have to be a NEDRA member to compete.
However, if you think your car is quick enough in its class to break an
existing record then become a NEDRA member prior to the EVent to make the
new record official. Join anyway, and support NEDRA. Just bring your EV
out for the day and have fun, fun, fun till your ................
Register online for the event at www.fveaa.org
I can see it now "Aggravated Battery" heads up against "White Zombie" .
You won't blow our doors off. (we ain't got any)
Later
John
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:35:29 -0800 John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Hello to All,
<snip snip>
> Where's all your own local EVers? Surely with such a prominent race
> in
> their own back yard, you can get at least 10 more EVs from the
> area....right? I'm doing some arm-twisting to get more EVs to the
> EVent,
> too. Rudman keeps talking about his fast Fiero...maybe I'll shame
> him
> into bringing it with us back east! Maybe Rod and or Rich could get
> Gone
> Postal up and running. It's a record holder, so maybe some of that
> mileage seed money would help get it there as well. Who knows, maybe
>
> Victor would be interested in caravaning with us from Portland and
> bring
> the ACRX?
>
> >There is NO entry fee for any EV. Prizes include trophies and
> cash
> >awards.
> >
> Bob Rice...yes, bring your bunny Rabbit! Anyone from the east coast
>
> wanna run against White Zombie? Come on everyone, this is going to
> be
> one fun EVent! Matt, Lowell, Steve? You guys from Florida have got
> some
> hot machines now...come on, make the commitment and join up with us
> in
> the Chicago area! Bob Salem, could you make it with your minitruck
> from
> lumbus? That would be yet another hot electric to wow the crowd!
>
> Looking forward to the trek eastward....
>
> See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike wrote
Raise your hand if you have a fast street driven EV? That's what I
thought.
I'm suspect that came across a little ruder than you intended. I also think
you might find that some of the people who have done the most thinking on
this question are in seriously power limited EV's such as Solar Raycers and
Eletrathon competitors.
Dave wrote
<Seems to me I saw something about improving less rolling resistance by
<front end alignment that zeroes camber.
It's been my experience that to minimize rolling resistance, most cars can
benefit from a basic alignment. Do the front wheels point the same way as
the rear wheels and do they both point the same way as the body?
Then setting the toe can help.
Finally camber might help but at the cost of tire grip while
cornering.
At ProEV, we always try to do a full alignment before we race a new car. The
alignment almost always uncovers a way to improve the car.
There are a million techniques to get the same information. Here is a rough
and ready way that will give most people useful information. What seems the
best way to me might not to others, so modify to suit.
Checking the alignment on your street EV can be done fairly cheaply if you
have a level, a ruler, some chalk, fishing line and do not mind crawling
around. Plumb bob, right angle and jack stands are optional. We
use a 12 foot builder's level in the race shop but a smaller level and a
long
straight edge work just as well.
Step 1: Find a level area.
Take your level and find a flat level area bigger than the car,
preferable with a hard floor. The area should be level fore and aft and
side to side. The more accurate you are, the more exact your results. NASCAR
teams pour special level floors but you can get workable
results with out being fanatical.
Step 2: Put your car in the center of your level area.
Center the steering wheel. Inflate the tires evenly. For better accuracy,
have someone sit in the driver's seat.
Step 3: Locate and mark the center line of the car.
There a number of things that can help you decide where the center line
should be. They can disagree and then you just have to choose. We start at
suspension pivot points. Use a plumb bob (or a string and a small weight)
and chalk to mark the position of the suspension pivot point on the floor.
Do
the same on the other side of the car. Draw a line between the two points.
measure the distance and mark the middle. Do the same thing with two pick up
points in the rear. Draw a line that connects the two middle marks and
extends out the front and rear of the car for at least a foot.
It would be nice if this center line comes out at the middle of the body in
the front and rear. If it does not, then you have to decide if you want your
body square to the air flow or your suspension symmetrical. For a low drag
street EV, keeping your aero body square to the air flow is probably worth
more. In that case, chose the center of the front of the body and the
center of the rear of the body. Draw a line between the two (and extend them
a foot behind and in front of the car).
Step 4: Mark a box around the car.
Using the center line, draw a line perpendicular to the center line and 1
foot in front of the car. It needs to extend a couple of inches beyond the
width of the car on either side. Do the same at the rear. Measure the same
distance out from the center line in the front and the rear and draw a line.
It should be close to the car. If all your corners are 90 degrees then you
probably measured right.
Step 5: Measure the wheel locations at wheel center height.
Fishing line and 2 jack stands make this easier. Check how high the center
of the wheel is. Set the jackstands at either end of one of the chalked
sidelines. Tie the fishing line to the jack stands at the wheel center line
height and pull it tight. It should mimic the chalk line but up in the air.
Measure the
distance between the fishing line and a point on the wheel face at the front
of the rim and the rear of the rim. Make sure the point you are measuring is
not odd-bent rim, odd bulge on tire, etc. Make sure your ruler is square to
the fishing line. Write down the measurements. Repeat for all wheels.
Step 6: Interpret the data.
The difference between the front and rear measurements on one wheel is toe.
If the distance from the front of the rim to the fishing line is greater
than the distance from fishing line to the rear of the rim, you have toe in.
Otherway around, toe out. Equal is zero toe.
Add the two measurements for a rear wheel and compare it to the sum of the
measurement for the front wheel on the same side. If the car has the same
size wheels and track, the totals should be the same. If not, your front and
rear wheel do not line up. More drag especially in the wet or snow.
If you add the two measurements for the rear wheel and compare it to the sum
of the measurement for the other rear wheel. If they do not match, the
wheels are offset to the body. Do the same for the front.
For the least rolling resistance, all 8 measurements should be same. That
would give you zero toe front and rear with the front and rear wheels lined
up square to the body. This will change the handling of the car. Do not do
this unless you know what you are doing and reconize that you might be
risking life and limb
in a possibly ill handling car.
Test the car in a safe area. Try it at different speeds and braking,
turning, accelerating and in combinations. If the steering wanders, try more
caster. If the turn-in is slow, increase the rake or play with the Ackerman
steering.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dennis
With or without a vehicle - come on up - bring you camera - this
is an opportunity to finally put a face to all these emails.
What better place to learn what works and what works better.
Later
John
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:46:10 -0600 "Pestka, Dennis J"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> John;
>
> I am planning on coming, but unfortunately I do not have a vehicle
> to run
> yet.
> If I can help in any other way, let me know.
> I am really going to be disappointed if this gets called off.
>
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ProEV wrote:
Mike wrote
Raise your hand if you have a fast street driven EV? That's what I
thought.
Sure. The Prizm is quite quick. And I expect the S10 to be as well. More
importantly I think I now have the rosetta stone of how to make a
Dolphin computer run 120kw... EV-1 performance anyone?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Again:
I am thinking about putting hydrocaps on my batteries. I have room to
spare so they should fit. Question: Some sources say, the hydrocaps
should be removed during heavy charging/equalizing because they get too
hot and may even go bad.
What's the idea of a re-combining cap if you shouldn't use it in that
phase you would need it the most?
I know this topic has been discussed but I wasn't able to find the right
answers in the archives.
Does anybody here use hydrocaps? Pros? Cons?
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Randy and all,
I've been running my dual 55 amp IOTAs without using the fast charge
plug, but have been contemplating using it. What I do know is if you
stick the phone jack shorting plug in, the voltage goes up (duh!). So
I'm assuming you'd need two relays to make it work - one for each wire
on the plug. Or a DPST relay.
One easy way to find out if both terminals on the plug need to be
shorted - clip both wires on the plug. Connect each one individually.
If the output voltage goes up with either one of the two alone, then it
doesn't actually need both shorted. I don't imagine you'd cause any
damage with such a test, but ... possible I suppose.
Please let us know how you end up doing it.
-Ryan
I'm playing with my first Iota DC-DC and wonder about the "fast charge
plug" they supply.
On the old Todd converters it had a pair of terminals that we used to
put an ignition controlled relay across. When you had the key on, the
Todd put out 14.2 volts and with key off it put out 13.6.
I see the Iota has a similar setup and wonder if anyone has done this?
The Iota has two loops coming out of the phone type jack. Has anyone
figured out if both loops have to be switched in order to change the
output voltage?
I know they sell a fancy three stage charger upgrade that plugs into
that port but I was hoping to just do the high low voltage switching
with a single relay.
BFN
Randy
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Michaela,
My first pack of batteries which were 300 AH lead-acid cells had Hydrocaps
on them. Keep them on all the time even when doing extreme equalization of
252 volts on a 180 volt pack, which was specific by the inventor of these
cells.
They are suppose to get warm, this means that they are working. If there
stay cold, then it is time to replace them or the cell may be shorted or
open, which means I pull the tops and do the maintenance on this cell. If
one gets very hot, then I will first exchange it with a cooler one to see if
it's the cell or the cap.
If you do a full charge of about 50 amps everyday, then these caps will last
about 2-years. That was about $500.00 for 90 caps at the time. Today this
is about $1000.00.
Also, the battery construction has to be reinforced, so as to contain the
pressure which the Hydrocaps increases the pressure. They do have a relief
value in them if the pressure raises too high.
For the Hydrocaps to work properly, there has to be at least of 3 inches of
air space above the top of the Hydrocaps. The Hydrocap I was using was
about 3 inches high and the space above it was another 3 inches. This
allows for the volume of air to come back into the Hydrocap after the
pressure releases the relief value. The oxygen in the air mixes with the
hydrogen and returns the vapors collected in the Hydrocap to return as water
to the cell.
The battery cells should be totally enclosed in a battery container that
also have a explosive proof or totally enclosed all plastic fan to bring in
and exhaust the air in the battery box.
My new batteries and enclosure do not have that volume of air space, so I
was told by the Hydrocap company that they would not have the performance I
need. They told me just install a 150 CFM minimum exhaust fan which will
bring in that amount of air. Also lay the batteries in a 1 inch thick bed
of baking soda.
AND THIS WORKS!!!!
My batteries stay very clean, the interial of the bright white battery box
is still gleaming white with no yellow ting of battery fumes I used to get.
In 90 cells of the 260 AH batteries I have now, I only use about 1 oz of
water per month per cell. I only water them about every 4 months and some
times 6 months.
I would like to have use the Back East Solar Water-Miser Vent Caps on my
Trojan's T-145's. My battery covers would be touching them.
The Water-Miser Vent Caps do not combined the hydrogen and oxygen as the
Hydrocaps do, but prevents the water loss up to 75% by absorbing and
releasing water back into the batteries.
There is no need to remove these caps when charging, filling, or equalizing
your batteries.
Source: http://www.backeastsolar.com/pr_batteries_watermiser
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: Hydrocaps
>
> Hello Again:
>
> I am thinking about putting hydrocaps on my batteries. I have room to
> spare so they should fit. Question: Some sources say, the hydrocaps
> should be removed during heavy charging/equalizing because they get too
> hot and may even go bad.
> What's the idea of a re-combining cap if you shouldn't use it in that
> phase you would need it the most?
>
> I know this topic has been discussed but I wasn't able to find the right
> answers in the archives.
>
> Does anybody here use hydrocaps? Pros? Cons?
>
> Michaela
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm considering attaching my Curtis to an aluminum heatsink with fins of over
2" depth with about 1/2" spacing between them. What's the best way to do this?
I just have a 3/8" electric hand drill and haven't purchased the heatsink yet
so I don't know how the screw holes on the base of the Curtis will line up with
respect to the heatsink fins and so whether I'll be able to drill thru the base
of the heatsink and come thru between the fins ot not.
Is heatsink compound necessary? I've never used it before, is it an adhesive
or just a thermal transfer agent?
Mark
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm getting closer to installing a heatsink. The main concern I have with the
comments below is that if I continue to use the old one and it fails suddenly,
I'll be stranded out in the middle of a 6 lane boulevard or wherever. I simply
can't believe that the probability of failure of a new one out of the box is
anywhere near the probability of failure of the old one currently installed in
the van.
If I install the new one, the old one could be "refurbished/reconditioned"
right? Curtis won't do it though right? Who else has experience with this?
Mark
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rich Rudman wrote:
> What is important... is a old abused Curtis can run for years...
> and die when ever it chooses to. So can a brand new one.
Right. But temperature, voltage, etc. are stress factors that
considerably hasten the day when this will occur.
> I would put the heatsink on the old one and run it until it dies,
> and keep the low hour one until you need it.
Agreed. I thought you were suggesting that he *not* put the heatsink on
the old one, and just keep using it as-is until it dies.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2ยข/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 1231C which I think is about the same. Your heatsink sounds fine. I
used the slide pieces which you get with the curtis. I then put some channel
steel across 2 sets of fins at each end and using some longish bolts bolted
them to the slidey pieces. I used the silicon heat transfer compound. It
doesn't set but is apparently necessary to stop air gaps etc. Seems to work
OK.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Freidberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: Question about attaching Curtis 1221c to heatsink
I'm considering attaching my Curtis to an aluminum heatsink with fins of
over 2" depth with about 1/2" spacing between them. What's the best way to
do this? I just have a 3/8" electric hand drill and haven't purchased the
heatsink yet so I don't know how the screw holes on the base of the Curtis
will line up with respect to the heatsink fins and so whether I'll be able
to drill thru the base of the heatsink and come thru between the fins ot
not.
Is heatsink compound necessary? I've never used it before, is it an
adhesive or just a thermal transfer agent?
Mark
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save
big.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sure your's will be the fastest truck over a short distance. These
trucks are very heavy.
Mike
--- Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>And I expect the S10 to be as well.
> More
> importantly I think I now have the rosetta stone of how to make a
> Dolphin computer run 120kw... EV-1 performance anyone?
>
> Chris
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
> I am thinking about putting hydrocaps on my batteries. I have room to
> spare so they should fit. Question: Some sources say, the hydrocaps
> should be removed during heavy charging/equalizing because they get
> too hot and may even go bad.
I used them a long time ago. Can't say if they have improved since then
or not. Basically, they were an oversized plastic vent cap with what
looked like stainless steel wool inside. The wool actually had a
microscopic amount of platinum on its surface.
Platinum acts as a catalyst in the presence of hydrogen and oxygen. The
hydrogen and oxygen recombine into water, and the platinum gets hot. If
the rate of gassing is low, the platinum won't get too hot, the water
condenses into liquid, and drips back into the cell. If the gassing rate
is too high, the water is steam, the cap gets so hot it melts the
plastic, and is destroyed.
My Hydrocaps worked fine with new golf cart batteries, when the current
during final charging was 3-5 amps for an hour or less. But as the
batteries aged, they gassed more and longer. This destroyed the caps
when the batteries got to be a few years old.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like to be clear about things. I've heard volumes of unproven
misinformation about batterys and EV's. So I tend to challenge
assumtions without base or data.
I had no intent to be rude, just clear. Most of us don't drive EV race
cars. So I stated what are facts to me from my racing experience.
If everyone checked their alignment specs, they would see what I mean
about zero being within range and particularly useful to EV's and their
efficiency.
Thanks for the alignment tutorial! Takes me way back.
Mike
--- ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike wrote
>
> > Raise your hand if you have a fast street driven EV? That's what I
> > thought.
>
> I'm suspect that came across a little ruder than you intended. I also
> think
> you might find that some of the people who have done the most
> thinking on
> this question are in seriously power limited EV's such as Solar
> Raycers and
> Eletrathon competitors.
>
> Dave wrote
>
> <Seems to me I saw something about improving less rolling resistance
> by
> <front end alignment that zeroes camber.
>
>
> It's been my experience that to minimize rolling resistance, most
> cars can
> benefit from a basic alignment. Do the front wheels point the same
> way as
> the rear wheels and do they both point the same way as the body?
>
> Then setting the toe can help.
>
> Finally camber might help but at the cost of tire grip while
> cornering.
>
> At ProEV, we always try to do a full alignment before we race a new
> car. The
> alignment almost always uncovers a way to improve the car.
>
> There are a million techniques to get the same information. Here is a
> rough
> and ready way that will give most people useful information. What
> seems the
> best way to me might not to others, so modify to suit.
>
> Checking the alignment on your street EV can be done fairly cheaply
> if you
> have a level, a ruler, some chalk, fishing line and do not mind
> crawling
> around. Plumb bob, right angle and jack stands are optional. We
> use a 12 foot builder's level in the race shop but a smaller level
> and a
> long
> straight edge work just as well.
>
> Step 1: Find a level area.
>
> Take your level and find a flat level area bigger than the car,
> preferable with a hard floor. The area should be level fore and aft
> and
> side to side. The more accurate you are, the more exact your results.
> NASCAR
> teams pour special level floors but you can get workable
> results with out being fanatical.
>
> Step 2: Put your car in the center of your level area.
>
> Center the steering wheel. Inflate the tires evenly. For better
> accuracy,
> have someone sit in the driver's seat.
>
> Step 3: Locate and mark the center line of the car.
>
> There a number of things that can help you decide where the center
> line
> should be. They can disagree and then you just have to choose. We
> start at
> suspension pivot points. Use a plumb bob (or a string and a small
> weight)
> and chalk to mark the position of the suspension pivot point on the
> floor.
> Do
> the same on the other side of the car. Draw a line between the two
> points.
> measure the distance and mark the middle. Do the same thing with two
> pick up
> points in the rear. Draw a line that connects the two middle marks
> and
> extends out the front and rear of the car for at least a foot.
>
> It would be nice if this center line comes out at the middle of the
> body in
> the front and rear. If it does not, then you have to decide if you
> want your
> body square to the air flow or your suspension symmetrical. For a low
> drag
> street EV, keeping your aero body square to the air flow is probably
> worth
> more. In that case, chose the center of the front of the body and the
> center of the rear of the body. Draw a line between the two (and
> extend them
> a foot behind and in front of the car).
>
> Step 4: Mark a box around the car.
>
> Using the center line, draw a line perpendicular to the center line
> and 1
> foot in front of the car. It needs to extend a couple of inches
> beyond the
> width of the car on either side. Do the same at the rear. Measure the
> same
> distance out from the center line in the front and the rear and draw
> a line.
> It should be close to the car. If all your corners are 90 degrees
> then you
> probably measured right.
>
> Step 5: Measure the wheel locations at wheel center height.
>
> Fishing line and 2 jack stands make this easier. Check how high the
> center
> of the wheel is. Set the jackstands at either end of one of the
> chalked
> sidelines. Tie the fishing line to the jack stands at the wheel
> center line
> height and pull it tight. It should mimic the chalk line but up in
> the air.
> Measure the
> distance between the fishing line and a point on the wheel face at
> the front
> of the rim and the rear of the rim. Make sure the point you are
> measuring is
> not odd-bent rim, odd bulge on tire, etc. Make sure your ruler is
> square to
> the fishing line. Write down the measurements. Repeat for all wheels.
>
> Step 6: Interpret the data.
>
> The difference between the front and rear measurements on one wheel
> is toe.
> If the distance from the front of the rim to the fishing line is
> greater
> than the distance from fishing line to the rear of the rim, you have
> toe in.
> Otherway around, toe out. Equal is zero toe.
>
> Add the two measurements for a rear wheel and compare it to the sum
> of the
> measurement for the front wheel on the same side. If the car has the
> same
> size wheels and track, the totals should be the same. If not, your
> front and
> rear wheel do not line up. More drag especially in the wet or snow.
>
> If you add the two measurements for the rear wheel and compare it to
> the sum
> of the measurement for the other rear wheel. If they do not match,
> the
> wheels are offset to the body. Do the same for the front.
>
> For the least rolling resistance, all 8 measurements should be same.
> That
> would give you zero toe front and rear with the front and rear wheels
> lined
> up square to the body. This will change the handling of the car. Do
> not do
> this unless you know what you are doing and reconize that you might
> be
> risking life and limb
> in a possibly ill handling car.
>
> Test the car in a safe area. Try it at different speeds and braking,
> turning, accelerating and in combinations. If the steering wanders,
> try more
> caster. If the turn-in is slow, increase the rake or play with the
> Ackerman
> steering.
>
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
>
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> I'm considering attaching my Curtis to an aluminum heatsink...
> What's the best way to do this?
Depending on the model, the Curtis has either feet on each side with
holes for mounting screws, or loose clamps that work the same way. So
you just need to position the controller on the heatsink, mark the hole
locations with a pencil, and drill them. You can thread the holes in the
heatsink so you can bolt it down without needing to get at the back side
with a nut (this way the fins aren't a problem), or pick your hole
locations so they miss the fins and put nuts on the bottom.
> Is heatsink compound necessary? I've never used it before, is it an
> adhesive or just a thermal transfer agent?
It isn't necessary, but it will work better with it. Neither the
controller nor the heatsink will be all that flat. If you just stick
them together, there will be a small air space between them in all but a
few spots. Air is a lousy conductor of heat; almost anything is better.
Heatsink compound is basically grease with powdered "something" to act
as a filler; typically zinc oxide or gypsum. Using it will greatly
reduce the temperature difference between the heatsink and controller
(i.e. it makes the controller run cooler).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I just got on the motorcycle to see how it faired over its first storage
through the winter. I did charge it periodically through the winter. I
am using Trojan SCS150 flooded 100 ah batteries. I rode it near the
house and at about 10 miles the batteries were fading fast. Last summer
it was more like 17 miles. I pulled in to the garage and check some
cells with my EZ-Red hydrometer. It read between 1.275 and 1.25, in
other words fully charged.
Is this because I checked it after just riding it? Would it have
dropped if I had let them sit for an hour and then checked?
With a fresh charge the way I had it geared it topped out around 50 mph
at the end of the run it was around 20 mph so the batteries definitely
seemed like they were dead, but I can't explain the S.G. number on the
hydrometer saying the bat was full. My Link 10 meter is on the blink so
I don't have any AH data from this run.
-Garret Maki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela,
You may have googled this
http://www.ibiblio.org/london/alternative-energy/homepower-magazine/archives/11/11pg37.txt,
a review about Hydrocaps in HP.
I have had hydrocaps on my 5th wheel batteries since 1995, granted there are
only 4 T-105's, and they are very gently discharged and charged by my PV panels
(www.ironandwood.org/graphics/RV_PV.pdf is an article that appeared in HP), I
feel that I have watered the batteries very infrequently, and that they were
well worth the initial $72 investment. The first time I equalized the batteries
I didn't remove the Hydrocaps and they got quite hot, so now, on the rare
occasions that I equalize them I do remove them.
According to Wind and Sun, they are about $8 now. So for a 144 V system you
would pay about $576 for the Hydrocaps. And you would still have to water the
batteries from time to time. I've also investigated most of the battery water
systems and the various vendors are willing to give a pretty good discount for
a large water filling system. If you have the space for Hydrocaps, you have the
space for a water filling system.
If I remember correctly the amount of Platinum catalyst inside the Hydrocap is
calculated by a formula based upon the battery, the charger and the kind of
usage you will have. I just pulled out the old sheet that I used to order them
and you have to measure the charger current when the battery is fully charged
and not supplying any power. You also have to discharge 'the battery' 30% or
more, turn on the charger, remove the vent caps, observe the bubbles and read
the charging current ammeter when 3 to 4 bubble appear each second. So
basically the caps are designed for your specific system and they may not work
effectively if the kind of battery is changed, the amount of batteries are
changed, or the charger is changed. Just one more thing to research...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: Hydrocaps
>
> Hello Again:
>
> I am thinking about putting hydrocaps on my batteries. I have room to
> spare so they should fit. Question: Some sources say, the hydrocaps
> should be removed during heavy charging/equalizing because they get too
> hot and may even go bad.
> What's the idea of a re-combining cap if you shouldn't use it in that
> phase you would need it the most?
>
> I know this topic has been discussed but I wasn't able to find the right
> answers in the archives.
>
> Does anybody here use hydrocaps? Pros? Cons?
>
> Michaela
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have a peak detector schematic laying around? I've done web
searching without any luck.
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> I'm getting closer to installing a heatsink. The main concern I have
> with the comments below is that if I continue to use the old one and
> it fails suddenly, I'll be stranded out in the middle of a 6 lane
> boulevard or wherever. I simply can't believe that the probability
> of failure of a new one out of the box is anywhere near the
> probability of failure of the old one currently installed in the van.
Engineers call it the "bathtub curve". If you produce a large number of
some product, and keep track of how many hours it works before it fails,
a graph of failures versus hours of operation looks like a bathtub. High
at the beginning with zero hours (called infant mortality), falling
rapidly to a long flat region with few failures, then a rising rate of
failure at the end (called end of life).
The early failures are due to quality control defects in the product.
Bad parts, incorrect assembly, etc. And, they cover installation errors;
customer dropped it, wired it wrong, used it beyond its ratings, etc.
The end-of-life failures come from the cumulative damage from operating
stress, and the eventual breakdown or wearing out of parts. When these
occur vary, depending on temperature, voltage, current, etc.
So, it *is* possible that a brand new controller right out of the box
can fail very soon after installation. It might be only 1 out of 100;
but you might be the "lucky buyer".
> If I install the new one, the old one could be refurbished /
> reconditioned" right? Curtis won't do it though right? Who else has
> experience with this?
Correct, as long as it hasn't already blown up and destroyed itself.
Curtis doesn't do it becuase they'd rather sell you a new one. But there
are companies that repair and "hotrod" Curtis controllers.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a cute little 1974 MG Midget electric car on eBay, in Chester
CT, item #4625885016.
Was this one of Jack Gretta's prizes? Although located close to me, I
don't really have the money right now... I hope someone does to give it
a nice loving home!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4625885016
72 volts of flooded PbAs, 7.2 HP GE motor, doesn't say what controller
(anyone know?).
hmmmmm... if I sell the Solectria Force and get the MG and soup it up
with a bigger controller/motor/AGMs.... 2500 pounds is a light car....
droooooolllllll.... though might not be practical in the winter and bad
weather..... hmmmmmmmm......
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We don't have TV. If someone could tape the Apr. 10 Monster Garage
episode and send it to us, we'd pay for the tape and postage. Let me
know off list if you can do this.
Thanks!
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok.. I expect that there will be Dozzens of folks that capture it.
We will get it on VHS and maybe DVD. If my wife stays home I am sure we will
get it, But I am trying to get her to tag along to the show.
But... I will have it one way or the other.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:29 AM
Subject: MG Video Wanted
> We don't have TV. If someone could tape the Apr. 10 Monster Garage
> episode and send it to us, we'd pay for the tape and postage. Let me
> know off list if you can do this.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Shari Prange
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>
--- End Message ---
