EV Digest 5285
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hydrometer and SOC
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: '74 MG electric on eBay
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: '74 MG electric on eBay
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Wire gauge thoughts
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Peak Detector
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Bad Boy, was: Schumacher: SE-1072
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Wire gauge thoughts
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) toe, was: camber
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) GM EV1 controller, was: camber
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) DC Motors for Racing (and Matt's Nissan 200SX)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: toe, was: camber
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Garret,
If you take water, H2O that has a specific gravity of 1.000 and mix it with
Sulfuric Acid which has a specific gravity of 1.800 with about 3 parts of
acid and 5 parts of water, you will get about 1.300 specific gravity
electrolyte on initial mixing. As it cools it may lower to the 1.275 range.
Now is you took a specific gravity reading just after you mix it (acid pour
into water only not water pour into acid), you may read a range of 1.300 to
1.275.
As you let the electrolyte set for a long time, the heavy acid will settle
to the bottom while it will be more water at the top. If you took a reading
on a battery that been setting, which the sample of electrolyte is off the
top, it will show less than it would be at the bottom of the cell.
I found this out when I let my full charge batteries set for about 2 weeks.
The S.G. reading was down because I only pull a sample off the top of the
cell.
A old battery guy told me just drive the car on a rough road, which will mix
the electrolyte, and it did and the route I take every day is a good
electrolyte mixing route. The electrolyte reading was higher, because of
the mixing and of course a increase in battery temperature.
Charging a battery with a small level of bubbling will also mix this
electrolyte and thus the S.G. reading will be higher than if you let it set.
The power lost, could be battery age, or only 1/3 to 1/2 of the plate area
only being use. The 1/3 to 1/2 of the plate only being use is cause by
fully charge battery with the mix electrolyte the same from bottom to top
and pulling a large load from it right after its charge. If the grid
connections links are only connected across the top of the grids, most of
the battery current is going through the top half of the grips, therefore
you are only using 1/2 of the grid area of the battery.
How do I know this. Well in doing maintenance on cells with removable tops
on cells that only had connection bars on top, the grid material was all
gone in the 1/3 top of the grids.
In the new design cells, which had the grids connected at the top and
bottom, and the grids had large grid area at the bottom then the top, the
grid material was now even from top to bottom. This type of cell felt like
it had double the power than a top connected grid only.
So I let my EV set 24 hours before I used it, and I only charge it every
four days. The electrolyte S.G. is greater at the bottom of the cells than
at the top. This seems to work better because I am now starting to pull
more current through the bottom of the grids at that time and while driving,
the electrolyte is now mixing from the top to the bottom of the cell more
evenly. I have gone 9 years on my last set of batteries which were Exides 6
volt 235 AH.
I am now 4 years on my Trojans and they are still perfect.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garret Maki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:03 AM
Subject: Hydrometer and SOC
> Hi all,
> I just got on the motorcycle to see how it faired over its first storage
> through the winter. I did charge it periodically through the winter. I
> am using Trojan SCS150 flooded 100 ah batteries. I rode it near the
> house and at about 10 miles the batteries were fading fast. Last summer
> it was more like 17 miles. I pulled in to the garage and check some
> cells with my EZ-Red hydrometer. It read between 1.275 and 1.25, in
> other words fully charged.
>
> Is this because I checked it after just riding it? Would it have
> dropped if I had let them sit for an hour and then checked?
>
> With a fresh charge the way I had it geared it topped out around 50 mph
> at the end of the run it was around 20 mph so the batteries definitely
> seemed like they were dead, but I can't explain the S.G. number on the
> hydrometer saying the bat was full. My Link 10 meter is on the blink so
> I don't have any AH data from this run.
>
> -Garret Maki
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
There is a cute little 1974 MG Midget electric car on eBay, in Chester
CT, item #4625885016.
Was this one of Jack Gretta's prizes? Although located close to me, I
don't really have the money right now... I hope someone does to give
it a nice loving home!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4625885016
72 volts of flooded PbAs, 7.2 HP GE motor, doesn't say what controller
(anyone know?).
hmmmmm... if I sell the Solectria Force and get the MG and soup it up
with a bigger controller/motor/AGMs.... 2500 pounds is a light car....
droooooolllllll.... though might not be practical in the winter and
bad weather..... hmmmmmmmm......
Well yeah, that's 2500lbs with a 50mile range. Give some of that up by
switching to lighter AGMs, put a 8" or 9" in there, and you should have
one fun little rocket. Don't worry too much about adverse weather, just
use that right foot and OUTRUN the raindrops and snowflakes ;)
But seriously, there are hardtops for MG Midgets floating around.
Here is a picture of my favorite style:
http://www.evforge.net/pub/index.php?code=1143484073MS0IFHOKF5
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I couldn't find any specs on this charger. Does anyone know what the max
current at the 72v setting is?
thanks,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:42:04 +0000
Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
When you get to that point in the charge, flip the switch and measure the
current. If it is acceptable than you are fine. If it is not then turn it off.
This type of charger is very dumb. The current is controlled by where the pack
voltage is. When you flip the switch to the 48V 5 amp setting there is nothing
to make sure that it will charge a 48 volt pack at 5 amps, it simply kicks the
charger up to a voltage that should give you somewhere around a 5 amp current.
As the voltage of the pack rises the current the charger puts out goes down.
damon
>From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: "damon henry" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:32:19 -0000
>
>I also have this charger for my 48 volt 225 amp/hr pack....
>
> wondering if I could use the 60 volt setting briefly to equalize
>when the 48 volt setting maxes out at 60 volts ??
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 12 volt steps from 12 to 72v, but it appears to be a simple
>transformer
> > rectified charger, so the 12V setting on low would probably work
>fine for a
> > 6 volt battery.
> >
> > damon
> >
> >
> > >From: mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
> > >Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:59:48 -0800 (PST)
> > >
> > >what are voltage options? I see it does 6V and 72V,
> > >but I can't figure out what the other values are?
> > >
> > >Can two of these be put in series for 144volts?
> > >thanks
> > >
> > >--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Neon John had posted a link to this charger
> > > >
> > >http://www.batteryservice.com/products_final.aspx?ModelNumber=SE-
>1072
> > > > and I
> > > > decided to buy one to try out for my motorcycle. I
> > > > already have most of the
> > > > parts gathered to build two very similar chargers,
> > > > but since I wanted
> > > > something to leave and use at work, the fact that
> > > > this is UL listed and
> > > > already assembled made it very attractive to me.
> > > >
> > > > It arrived yesterday and I have had a chance to use
> > > > it a few times now and I
> > > > couldn't be happier. As some pointed out, it's not
> > > > a smart charger, but
> > > > still it is quite handy. It has 6 different voltage
> > > > settings X 2 output
> > > > settings which I assume is accomplished by 12
> > > > different transformer taps,
> > > > although I have not yet cracked it open. With 12
> > > > availabe settings, it
> > > > gives alot of utility for the money and seems to
> > > > have no problem charging my
> > > > motorcycle at a 10 - 15 amp rate even though it is
> > > > supposed to be a 5 - 10
> > > > amp charger.
> > > >
> > > > damon
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't worry about wind, rain or snow. This car comes with a hard top or soft
top. And, contrary to
Bob R's reminders about the effects of winter road salt on cars in New England,
this one is in
great shape. I was fortunate enough to have met Jack last summer and saw this
car at his house. It
was in excellent shape.
--- "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim Coate wrote:
> > There is a cute little 1974 MG Midget electric car on eBay, in Chester
> > CT, item #4625885016.
> >
> > Was this one of Jack Gretta's prizes? Although located close to me, I
> > don't really have the money right now... I hope someone does to give
> > it a nice loving home!
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4625885016
> >
> >
> >
> > 72 volts of flooded PbAs, 7.2 HP GE motor, doesn't say what controller
> > (anyone know?).
> >
> > hmmmmm... if I sell the Solectria Force and get the MG and soup it up
> > with a bigger controller/motor/AGMs.... 2500 pounds is a light car....
> > droooooolllllll.... though might not be practical in the winter and
> > bad weather..... hmmmmmmmm......
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well yeah, that's 2500lbs with a 50mile range. Give some of that up by
> switching to lighter AGMs, put a 8" or 9" in there, and you should have
> one fun little rocket. Don't worry too much about adverse weather, just
> use that right foot and OUTRUN the raindrops and snowflakes ;)
>
> But seriously, there are hardtops for MG Midgets floating around.
>
> Here is a picture of my favorite style:
> http://www.evforge.net/pub/index.php?code=1143484073MS0IFHOKF5
>
> --
>
> Stefan T. Peters
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
The specs that you posted... aren't those the rated capacity for a 24 hour duty
cycle?
It seems to me that a typical EV's 1/2 to 1 hour duty cycle would yield a much
greater rating.
Stay Charged!
Hump
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 10:18 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wire gauge thoughts
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: Wire gauge thoughts
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> >
> > A No. 4 AWG multi strand copper wire with a insulation that is rated
> > at 105
> > C(221 F) that may be enclosed in a wireway with two other cables, or
> > three
> > conductors that has not over 60 percent fill and each wire is space so
> > there
> > is not more than 24 inches of surface contact between the conductors in
> > a
> > ambient temperature of 20 C(68 F) shall be rated at 140 amps.
> >
> > The maximum length in this type of spacing is 80 feet.
> >
> > As a single conductor in open air, then the maximum is about 180 amps.
> >
> > If there are more than three conductors in a raceway, than you must
> > de-rated
> > the ampere by 20 percent.
> >
> > Roland
> >
>
> Thanks very much!
>
> Thinking of ordering this:
> http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=4032
> and these: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=1332
> for short (10 in) inter-battery hookups on a 96V (12x8) pack for 80A
> typical (400A peak) use. Should I be running two parallel cables between
> batts?
If it was me, and I had only a lot of No.4 terminal lugs and wire in stock,
I would parallel the cables. Just use two No.4 terminal lugs back to back,
so it will lay out nice.
You have to calculated the total length of cable run. In my battery pack, I
have 40 feet of cable links alone. Then there is a circuit run of 25 feet
from the motor thru the controller thru the contactors and to the battery,
which makes 50 + 40 = 90 feet for me.
The resistance will be higher with all these connections than a straight run
of 90 feet of wire.
I am using 2/0 wire which is good for 300 amps in open air for that
distance. The voltage I start out with is about 200 volts on a 180 volt
pack. Its drops right now to 192 volts at 50 battery amps and than only
drop to 185 volts after 5 days of driving or about 16 to 20 miles which the
battery pack is just going below 75 percent. I am running a high ampere-hour
battery of 260 AH.
My peak maximum battery amperes is about 100 amps, and the motor amperes set
at a maximum surge to 400 amps. My normal driving is 50 battery amperes and
just below 200 motor amperes.
Roland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have not tried it on a 72 volt pack yet, but my guess would be that if it
is hooked up to a 72 volt pack that needs to be charged on the 10 amp
setting that it will start charging at our around 10 amps and taper down as
the voltage of the pack comes up.
It works great for my motorcycle which currently consists of 45 Nicad cells
for a nominal voltage of 54 volts. I start with the 60 volt low setting
which begins charging at around 12 amps. When the current drops down to
around 8 amps I switch it up to 60 volt high setting and it kicks up to
around 14 amps and slowly starts to taper down as my pack voltage rises. My
pack voltage finishes at about 72 volts and the charger is still putting out
about 4 amps at 72 volts on the 60 volt high setting.
There appears to be no current limiting, thus no max current. If you hook
it up to a 6 volt battery and flip it onto the 72 volt setting it will
probably dish out a bunch of current until it either trips a breaker, or
overheats. It does say that it has "overload protection" which with this
quality of product usually means some kind of thermal switch that turns off
before anything gets hot enough to melt. Mine did not come with any spec
sheet. How much current it will put out depends on the voltage of battery
pack it is connected to.
damon
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:38:29 -0500
I couldn't find any specs on this charger. Does anyone know what the max
current at the 72v setting is?
thanks,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:42:04 +0000
Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
When you get to that point in the charge, flip the switch and measure the
current. If it is acceptable than you are fine. If it is not then turn it
off. This type of charger is very dumb. The current is controlled by where
the pack voltage is. When you flip the switch to the 48V 5 amp setting
there is nothing to make sure that it will charge a 48 volt pack at 5 amps,
it simply kicks the charger up to a voltage that should give you somewhere
around a 5 amp current. As the voltage of the pack rises the current the
charger puts out goes down.
damon
>From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: "damon henry" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:32:19 -0000
>
>I also have this charger for my 48 volt 225 amp/hr pack....
>
> wondering if I could use the 60 volt setting briefly to equalize
>when the 48 volt setting maxes out at 60 volts ??
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > 12 volt steps from 12 to 72v, but it appears to be a simple
>transformer
> > rectified charger, so the 12V setting on low would probably work
>fine for a
> > 6 volt battery.
> >
> > damon
> >
> >
> > >From: mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
> > >Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:59:48 -0800 (PST)
> > >
> > >what are voltage options? I see it does 6V and 72V,
> > >but I can't figure out what the other values are?
> > >
> > >Can two of these be put in series for 144volts?
> > >thanks
> > >
> > >--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Neon John had posted a link to this charger
> > > >
> > >http://www.batteryservice.com/products_final.aspx?ModelNumber=SE-
>1072
> > > > and I
> > > > decided to buy one to try out for my motorcycle. I
> > > > already have most of the
> > > > parts gathered to build two very similar chargers,
> > > > but since I wanted
> > > > something to leave and use at work, the fact that
> > > > this is UL listed and
> > > > already assembled made it very attractive to me.
> > > >
> > > > It arrived yesterday and I have had a chance to use
> > > > it a few times now and I
> > > > couldn't be happier. As some pointed out, it's not
> > > > a smart charger, but
> > > > still it is quite handy. It has 6 different voltage
> > > > settings X 2 output
> > > > settings which I assume is accomplished by 12
> > > > different transformer taps,
> > > > although I have not yet cracked it open. With 12
> > > > availabe settings, it
> > > > gives alot of utility for the money and seems to
> > > > have no problem charging my
> > > > motorcycle at a 10 - 15 amp rate even though it is
> > > > supposed to be a 5 - 10
> > > > amp charger.
> > > >
> > > > damon
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
"a diode and a capacitor" is the basics of a peak detector.
But your question sounds like "anyone having an amplifier?"
It depends on what it needs to do:
What are the driving and loading impedance,
which freq does it need to respond to,
what are the attack and decay time contants?
Give me more info on the application and I (or someone else
on the list) can give you more info on the proper dimensioning.
Historical note: the first application of the peak detector
that I know of was the famous crystal receiver for AM radio.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Peak Detector
Anyone have a peak detector schematic laying around? I've done web
searching without any luck.
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like it is intrinsically an isolated "Bad Boy" charger...
It will overcurrent or overcharge when used without knowledge,
so you essentially get what you paid for; if you know what you
are doing then it may work for you.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
I have not tried it on a 72 volt pack yet, but my guess would be that if it
is hooked up to a 72 volt pack that needs to be charged on the 10 amp
setting that it will start charging at our around 10 amps and taper down as
the voltage of the pack comes up.
It works great for my motorcycle which currently consists of 45 Nicad cells
for a nominal voltage of 54 volts. I start with the 60 volt low setting
which begins charging at around 12 amps. When the current drops down to
around 8 amps I switch it up to 60 volt high setting and it kicks up to
around 14 amps and slowly starts to taper down as my pack voltage rises. My
pack voltage finishes at about 72 volts and the charger is still putting out
about 4 amps at 72 volts on the 60 volt high setting.
There appears to be no current limiting, thus no max current. If you hook
it up to a 6 volt battery and flip it onto the 72 volt setting it will
probably dish out a bunch of current until it either trips a breaker, or
overheats. It does say that it has "overload protection" which with this
quality of product usually means some kind of thermal switch that turns off
before anything gets hot enough to melt. Mine did not come with any spec
sheet. How much current it will put out depends on the voltage of battery
pack it is connected to.
damon
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:38:29 -0500
>
> I couldn't find any specs on this charger. Does anyone know what the max
>current at the 72v setting is?
>
>thanks,
>Steve
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:42:04 +0000
>Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
>
>
>When you get to that point in the charge, flip the switch and measure the
>current. If it is acceptable than you are fine. If it is not then turn it
>off. This type of charger is very dumb. The current is controlled by where
>the pack voltage is. When you flip the switch to the 48V 5 amp setting
>there is nothing to make sure that it will charge a 48 volt pack at 5 amps,
>it simply kicks the charger up to a voltage that should give you somewhere
>around a 5 amp current. As the voltage of the pack rises the current the
>charger puts out goes down.
>
>damon
>
> >From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: "damon henry" <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
> >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:32:19 -0000
> >
> >I also have this charger for my 48 volt 225 amp/hr pack....
> >
> > wondering if I could use the 60 volt setting briefly to equalize
> >when the 48 volt setting maxes out at 60 volts ??
> >
> >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > 12 volt steps from 12 to 72v, but it appears to be a simple
> >transformer
> > > rectified charger, so the 12V setting on low would probably work
> >fine for a
> > > 6 volt battery.
> > >
> > > damon
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >Subject: Re: Schumacher: SE-1072
> > > >Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:59:48 -0800 (PST)
> > > >
> > > >what are voltage options? I see it does 6V and 72V,
> > > >but I can't figure out what the other values are?
> > > >
> > > >Can two of these be put in series for 144volts?
> > > >thanks
> > > >
> > > >--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Neon John had posted a link to this charger
> > > > >
> > > >http://www.batteryservice.com/products_final.aspx?ModelNumber=SE-
> >1072
> > > > > and I
> > > > > decided to buy one to try out for my motorcycle. I
> > > > > already have most of the
> > > > > parts gathered to build two very similar chargers,
> > > > > but since I wanted
> > > > > something to leave and use at work, the fact that
> > > > > this is UL listed and
> > > > > already assembled made it very attractive to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > It arrived yesterday and I have had a chance to use
> > > > > it a few times now and I
> > > > > couldn't be happier. As some pointed out, it's not
> > > > > a smart charger, but
> > > > > still it is quite handy. It has 6 different voltage
> > > > > settings X 2 output
> > > > > settings which I assume is accomplished by 12
> > > > > different transformer taps,
> > > > > although I have not yet cracked it open. With 12
> > > > > availabe settings, it
> > > > > gives alot of utility for the money and seems to
> > > > > have no problem charging my
> > > > > motorcycle at a 10 - 15 amp rate even though it is
> > > > > supposed to be a 5 - 10
> > > > > amp charger.
> > > > >
> > > > > damon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Tim,
This is for continuous duty. You still going to have a certain voltage drop
per size of wire no matter if its in the first minute or the next hour at
the wire temperature rating.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Wire gauge thoughts
> Roland,
>
> The specs that you posted... aren't those the rated capacity for a 24 hour
> duty cycle?
>
> It seems to me that a typical EV's 1/2 to 1 hour duty cycle would yield a
> much greater rating.
>
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 10:18 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Wire gauge thoughts
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stefan Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 9:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Wire gauge thoughts
>
>
> > Roland Wiench wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > A No. 4 AWG multi strand copper wire with a insulation that is rated
> > > at 105
> > > C(221 F) that may be enclosed in a wireway with two other cables, or
> > > three
> > > conductors that has not over 60 percent fill and each wire is space so
> > > there
> > > is not more than 24 inches of surface contact between the conductors
> > > in
> > > a
> > > ambient temperature of 20 C(68 F) shall be rated at 140 amps.
> > >
> > > The maximum length in this type of spacing is 80 feet.
> > >
> > > As a single conductor in open air, then the maximum is about 180 amps.
> > >
> > > If there are more than three conductors in a raceway, than you must
> > > de-rated
> > > the ampere by 20 percent.
> > >
> > > Roland
> > >
> >
> > Thanks very much!
> >
> > Thinking of ordering this:
> > http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=4032
> > and these:
> > http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=1332
> > for short (10 in) inter-battery hookups on a 96V (12x8) pack for 80A
> > typical (400A peak) use. Should I be running two parallel cables between
> > batts?
>
> If it was me, and I had only a lot of No.4 terminal lugs and wire in
> stock,
> I would parallel the cables. Just use two No.4 terminal lugs back to
> back,
> so it will lay out nice.
>
> You have to calculated the total length of cable run. In my battery pack,
> I
>
> have 40 feet of cable links alone. Then there is a circuit run of 25 feet
> from the motor thru the controller thru the contactors and to the battery,
> which makes 50 + 40 = 90 feet for me.
>
> The resistance will be higher with all these connections than a straight
> run
>
> of 90 feet of wire.
>
> I am using 2/0 wire which is good for 300 amps in open air for that
> distance. The voltage I start out with is about 200 volts on a 180 volt
> pack. Its drops right now to 192 volts at 50 battery amps and than only
> drop to 185 volts after 5 days of driving or about 16 to 20 miles which
> the
> battery pack is just going below 75 percent. I am running a high
> ampere-hour
>
> battery of 260 AH.
>
> My peak maximum battery amperes is about 100 amps, and the motor amperes
> set
>
> at a maximum surge to 400 amps. My normal driving is 50 battery amperes
> and
>
> just below 200 motor amperes.
>
> Roland
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is how I corrected the excessive toe-in of my Prius
(it was probably even out of manufacturer spec, but certainly
way too much to be "LRR" and I certainly noticed a jump up
in mileage after this correction)
- My garage floor is almost level, a car needs a push to start
rolling out onto the street, so I used this as my "basis".
- I looked up the Tread Width for front and rear wheels and
found out that the rear has a slightly wider Tread than front.
- I set the steering wheel straight and rolled the car back and
forth to settle tolerances.
- Then I checked when glancing along the outside wall of each
front wheel if I could see a slight of the rear wheel, when
the front and back side of the front tire were aligned.
(looking along it at hub height)
(If your rear Tread Width is smaller than front, it may help to
draw a chalk line outside the rear wheel at 1/2 the difference
as a target to aim for. In the above case, you may also draw a
line from front to the rear tires, hitting them at the front
Tread Width distance.)
At this point I noticed that the "line" of the front wheel ran
way past the rear wheel due to too much toe-in.
This was easily corrected on each front wheel and when I could
see a thin line of the rear wheel, about 1/2 the difference
between front and rear Thread Width, I noticed that I could
move the car more easily when pushing it by hand and the MPG
went up several miles per gallon.
Since zero toe-in is actually within manufacturer spec, I did not
worry about safety and handling and in fact it is still handling
very comfortably, I cannot pry the Prius out of my wife's
fingers, so it is good I like the electric truck....
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of ProEV
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: camber
Mike wrote
> Raise your hand if you have a fast street driven EV? That's what I
> thought.
I'm suspect that came across a little ruder than you intended. I also think
you might find that some of the people who have done the most thinking on
this question are in seriously power limited EV's such as Solar Raycers and
Eletrathon competitors.
Dave wrote
<Seems to me I saw something about improving less rolling resistance by
<front end alignment that zeroes camber.
It's been my experience that to minimize rolling resistance, most cars can
benefit from a basic alignment. Do the front wheels point the same way as
the rear wheels and do they both point the same way as the body?
Then setting the toe can help.
Finally camber might help but at the cost of tire grip while
cornering.
At ProEV, we always try to do a full alignment before we race a new car. The
alignment almost always uncovers a way to improve the car.
There are a million techniques to get the same information. Here is a rough
and ready way that will give most people useful information. What seems the
best way to me might not to others, so modify to suit.
Checking the alignment on your street EV can be done fairly cheaply if you
have a level, a ruler, some chalk, fishing line and do not mind crawling
around. Plumb bob, right angle and jack stands are optional. We
use a 12 foot builder's level in the race shop but a smaller level and a
long
straight edge work just as well.
Step 1: Find a level area.
Take your level and find a flat level area bigger than the car,
preferable with a hard floor. The area should be level fore and aft and
side to side. The more accurate you are, the more exact your results. NASCAR
teams pour special level floors but you can get workable
results with out being fanatical.
Step 2: Put your car in the center of your level area.
Center the steering wheel. Inflate the tires evenly. For better accuracy,
have someone sit in the driver's seat.
Step 3: Locate and mark the center line of the car.
There a number of things that can help you decide where the center line
should be. They can disagree and then you just have to choose. We start at
suspension pivot points. Use a plumb bob (or a string and a small weight)
and chalk to mark the position of the suspension pivot point on the floor.
Do
the same on the other side of the car. Draw a line between the two points.
measure the distance and mark the middle. Do the same thing with two pick up
points in the rear. Draw a line that connects the two middle marks and
extends out the front and rear of the car for at least a foot.
It would be nice if this center line comes out at the middle of the body in
the front and rear. If it does not, then you have to decide if you want your
body square to the air flow or your suspension symmetrical. For a low drag
street EV, keeping your aero body square to the air flow is probably worth
more. In that case, chose the center of the front of the body and the
center of the rear of the body. Draw a line between the two (and extend them
a foot behind and in front of the car).
Step 4: Mark a box around the car.
Using the center line, draw a line perpendicular to the center line and 1
foot in front of the car. It needs to extend a couple of inches beyond the
width of the car on either side. Do the same at the rear. Measure the same
distance out from the center line in the front and the rear and draw a line.
It should be close to the car. If all your corners are 90 degrees then you
probably measured right.
Step 5: Measure the wheel locations at wheel center height.
Fishing line and 2 jack stands make this easier. Check how high the center
of the wheel is. Set the jackstands at either end of one of the chalked
sidelines. Tie the fishing line to the jack stands at the wheel center line
height and pull it tight. It should mimic the chalk line but up in the air.
Measure the
distance between the fishing line and a point on the wheel face at the front
of the rim and the rear of the rim. Make sure the point you are measuring is
not odd-bent rim, odd bulge on tire, etc. Make sure your ruler is square to
the fishing line. Write down the measurements. Repeat for all wheels.
Step 6: Interpret the data.
The difference between the front and rear measurements on one wheel is toe.
If the distance from the front of the rim to the fishing line is greater
than the distance from fishing line to the rear of the rim, you have toe in.
Otherway around, toe out. Equal is zero toe.
Add the two measurements for a rear wheel and compare it to the sum of the
measurement for the front wheel on the same side. If the car has the same
size wheels and track, the totals should be the same. If not, your front and
rear wheel do not line up. More drag especially in the wet or snow.
If you add the two measurements for the rear wheel and compare it to the sum
of the measurement for the other rear wheel. If they do not match, the
wheels are offset to the body. Do the same for the front.
For the least rolling resistance, all 8 measurements should be same. That
would give you zero toe front and rear with the front and rear wheels lined
up square to the body. This will change the handling of the car. Do not do
this unless you know what you are doing and reconize that you might be
risking life and limb
in a possibly ill handling car.
Test the car in a safe area. Try it at different speeds and braking,
turning, accelerating and in combinations. If the steering wanders, try more
caster. If the turn-in is slow, increase the rake or play with the Ackerman
steering.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
According the discussion on the US Electricar group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/uselectricar/
you may actually hold one of *the* prototypes of
*the* GM EV1 controller...
Shhhh - don't tell anyone!
;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: camber
ProEV wrote:
>
> Mike wrote
>
>> Raise your hand if you have a fast street driven EV? That's what I
>> thought.
Sure. The Prizm is quite quick. And I expect the S10 to be as well. More
importantly I think I now have the rosetta stone of how to make a
Dolphin computer run 120kw... EV-1 performance anyone?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was so impressed by John's description of Matt's 200sx I really want to
know more.
On the evsource web site, it lists the 9" Warp DC Motor as follows:
* HP = 70 @ 120 Volts DC (435 Amps)
* 116 Ft. pounds torque
Not a huge amount, but Matt's car has 25 batteries, so he runs at 300V. I
have a couple of questions about this:
- what does 300V do to the torque and power? How much more is it?
- what happens to brushes when running at this voltage? Is it an issue or
more of a maintenance issue?
Thanks
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just want to add one more comment to this thread before it grows any older.
When I learned how
to do alignments in auto school, toe-in was called the tire wearing angle. One
of the main reasons
for getting it right was to prevent premature wear. If the toe is too far in,
or out, your tires
will scuff the pavement causing rolling resistance and tire wear. Toe
adjustment (in or out)
compensates for the play in your front end parts. In rear wheel drive cars the
front tires tend to
push back and you might add some toe in to balance it out. The net result is
the tires point
straight down the road and don't wear excessively. Generally front wheel drive
cars will have the
opposite problem. Since the front tires are pulling the car, they will try to
go to a toe in
condition, so you may have to adjust towards toe out.
An easy way to see this is to grab one front tire and try to rock it back and
forth as if you were
trying to turn the wheels (the same direction the steering wheel does). You
will probably be able
to move the tire a little without moving the other side due to the play in your
front end. It's
almost impossible to eliminate all the slop.
One of the simplest ways to tell if your tires have a toe problem is to feel
the top of the tire.
Run you hand back and forth across the tread on top of the tire at a right
angle to the direction
of rotation. If you have too much toe out or in all the raised portions will
tend to wear on one
side. You can easily feel a sharp edge moving your hand in one direction but it
will feel smooth
in the other.
Caster of course will affect the way the cars feels going down the road. Lot's
of caster will help
the car move in a straight line. Little or no caster will make the car feel
squirrely. But caster
and camber don't have a drastic affect (if any) on tire wear or rolling
resistance. Generally
camber adjustment is so limited you have to really work at it to get in trouble.
A little longer than I'd planned, but maybe it will help.
Dave Cover
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is how I corrected the excessive toe-in of my Prius
> (it was probably even out of manufacturer spec, but certainly
> way too much to be "LRR" and I certainly noticed a jump up
> in mileage after this correction)
>
> - My garage floor is almost level, a car needs a push to start
> rolling out onto the street, so I used this as my "basis".
>
> - I looked up the Tread Width for front and rear wheels and
> found out that the rear has a slightly wider Tread than front.
>
> - I set the steering wheel straight and rolled the car back and
> forth to settle tolerances.
>
> - Then I checked when glancing along the outside wall of each
> front wheel if I could see a slight of the rear wheel, when
> the front and back side of the front tire were aligned.
> (looking along it at hub height)
>
> (If your rear Tread Width is smaller than front, it may help to
> draw a chalk line outside the rear wheel at 1/2 the difference
> as a target to aim for. In the above case, you may also draw a
> line from front to the rear tires, hitting them at the front
> Tread Width distance.)
>
> At this point I noticed that the "line" of the front wheel ran
> way past the rear wheel due to too much toe-in.
> This was easily corrected on each front wheel and when I could
> see a thin line of the rear wheel, about 1/2 the difference
> between front and rear Thread Width, I noticed that I could
> move the car more easily when pushing it by hand and the MPG
> went up several miles per gallon.
> Since zero toe-in is actually within manufacturer spec, I did not
> worry about safety and handling and in fact it is still handling
> very comfortably, I cannot pry the Prius out of my wife's
> fingers, so it is good I like the electric truck....
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of ProEV
> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:26 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: camber
>
>
>
> Mike wrote
>
> > Raise your hand if you have a fast street driven EV? That's what I
> > thought.
>
> I'm suspect that came across a little ruder than you intended. I also think
> you might find that some of the people who have done the most thinking on
> this question are in seriously power limited EV's such as Solar Raycers and
> Eletrathon competitors.
>
> Dave wrote
>
> <Seems to me I saw something about improving less rolling resistance by
> <front end alignment that zeroes camber.
>
>
> It's been my experience that to minimize rolling resistance, most cars can
> benefit from a basic alignment. Do the front wheels point the same way as
> the rear wheels and do they both point the same way as the body?
>
> Then setting the toe can help.
>
> Finally camber might help but at the cost of tire grip while
> cornering.
>
> At ProEV, we always try to do a full alignment before we race a new car. The
>
> alignment almost always uncovers a way to improve the car.
>
> There are a million techniques to get the same information. Here is a rough
> and ready way that will give most people useful information. What seems the
> best way to me might not to others, so modify to suit.
>
> Checking the alignment on your street EV can be done fairly cheaply if you
> have a level, a ruler, some chalk, fishing line and do not mind crawling
> around. Plumb bob, right angle and jack stands are optional. We
> use a 12 foot builder's level in the race shop but a smaller level and a
> long
> straight edge work just as well.
>
> Step 1: Find a level area.
>
> Take your level and find a flat level area bigger than the car,
> preferable with a hard floor. The area should be level fore and aft and
> side to side. The more accurate you are, the more exact your results. NASCAR
> teams pour special level floors but you can get workable
> results with out being fanatical.
>
> Step 2: Put your car in the center of your level area.
>
> Center the steering wheel. Inflate the tires evenly. For better accuracy,
> have someone sit in the driver's seat.
>
> Step 3: Locate and mark the center line of the car.
>
> There a number of things that can help you decide where the center line
> should be. They can disagree and then you just have to choose. We start at
> suspension pivot points. Use a plumb bob (or a string and a small weight)
> and chalk to mark the position of the suspension pivot point on the floor.
> Do
> the same on the other side of the car. Draw a line between the two points.
> measure the distance and mark the middle. Do the same thing with two pick up
> points in the rear. Draw a line that connects the two middle marks and
> extends out the front and rear of the car for at least a foot.
>
> It would be nice if this center line comes out at the middle of the body in
> the front and rear. If it does not, then you have to decide if you want your
> body square to the air flow or your suspension symmetrical. For a low drag
> street EV, keeping your aero body square to the air flow is probably worth
> more. In that case, chose the center of the front of the body and the
> center of the rear of the body. Draw a line between the two (and extend them
> a foot behind and in front of the car).
>
> Step 4: Mark a box around the car.
>
> Using the center line, draw a line perpendicular to the center line and 1
> foot in front of the car. It needs to extend a couple of inches beyond the
> width of the car on either side. Do the same at the rear. Measure the same
> distance out from the center line in the front and the rear and draw a line.
> It should be close to the car. If all your corners are 90 degrees then you
> probably measured right.
>
> Step 5: Measure the wheel locations at wheel center height.
>
> Fishing line and 2 jack stands make this easier. Check how high the center
> of the wheel is. Set the jackstands at either end of one of the chalked
> sidelines. Tie the fishing line to the jack stands at the wheel center line
> height and pull it tight. It should mimic the chalk line but up in the air.
> Measure the
> distance between the fishing line and a point on the wheel face at the front
> of the rim and the rear of the rim. Make sure the point you are measuring is
> not odd-bent rim, odd bulge on tire, etc. Make sure your ruler is square to
> the fishing line. Write down the measurements. Repeat for all wheels.
>
> Step 6: Interpret the data.
>
> The difference between the front and rear measurements on one wheel is toe.
> If the distance from the front of the rim to the fishing line is greater
> than the distance from fishing line to the rear of the rim, you have toe in.
> Otherway around, toe out. Equal is zero toe.
>
> Add the two measurements for a rear wheel and compare it to the sum of the
> measurement for the front wheel on the same side. If the car has the same
> size wheels and track, the totals should be the same. If not, your front and
> rear wheel do not line up. More drag especially in the wet or snow.
>
> If you add the two measurements for the rear wheel and compare it to the sum
> of the measurement for the other rear wheel. If they do not match, the
> wheels are offset to the body. Do the same for the front.
>
> For the least rolling resistance, all 8 measurements should be same. That
> would give you zero toe front and rear with the front and rear wheels lined
> up square to the body. This will change the handling of the car. Do not do
> this unless you know what you are doing and reconize that you might be
> risking life and limb
> in a possibly ill handling car.
>
> Test the car in a safe area. Try it at different speeds and braking,
> turning, accelerating and in combinations. If the steering wanders, try more
> caster. If the turn-in is slow, increase the rake or play with the Ackerman
> steering.
>
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
