EV Digest 5307
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DC-DC converter: How to select?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Public charging- APPROVED (and other stuff)
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: DC-DC converter: How to select?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Public charging & Doughnuts
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: DC-DC converter: How to select?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) NEDRA Power of DC June 4, 2006
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Exceeding contactor ratings?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: identifying mystery forklift motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: toe, was: camber
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Would like large AGM with good EV user history
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Reverse, was: Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: I need to rephrase my 'motor options' question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Dumb question time
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: More or Less the Attitude of the Oil Companies
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) YAEVBA
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Replacing springs with something beefier
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 96v charge only goes to 121.5 & 5 amps. Wrong resistor?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Ground fault
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Replacing springs with something beefier
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Time to review the plan one more time (somewhat long)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Didn't see many responses, but perhaps in haste I just
missed them; catching up after spring break!
Voltage often determines what DCDC we purchase. Also
the size of battery that the aux. batt. is. Example:
Joe has a Civic with only enough room for a gel cel.
Not too many ampere-hours there for running lights,
defroster, wipers, on a cold night. Best to get a
beefy (lots of amps, let's say 50A on the DCDC) to
power those buggers.
Suzie has a Civic with a normal size (it's the
smallest group of starting batteries-- stock. Group
45, I believe?) More ampere hours here, so can back
off the DCDC amperage (say 32A) and do just fine.
Sevcon makes a reliable model. I use DCP, because
they have a power supply for an E-meter, which is a
nice feature. Curtis makes one (or used to?).
Often it's a matter of looking at the vendors (I like
KTA and Electro-Automotive), and seeing what they
have.
peace,
--- Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: March 29, 2006 9:18:15 AM EST
> Subject: DC-DC converter: How to select?
>
> I'm always reading about how everyone uses DC-DC
> converters in their
> EV's but I never see anything about brand names or
> specifications.
> I was hoping to see some good answers to this
> question. I have just
> installed my new battery bank. I upgraded to 108
> volts from 96
> volt. I would also like to add a DC-DC converter,
> but don't really
> know where to begin. (Rich will not part with his.)
> If there is an answer to Richard's question, let us
> hear it. If we
> don't buy a converter how do we build one?
>
> Calvin King,
> Now driving a 108 volt 81 Jet Electrica
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart writes:
>
>
> Bring donuts or contribute to the garage's coffee fund regularly, and
> remember the manager on his birthday :-)
Donuts are the key. I used to get a free parking pass at a client's
site by bringing a box of donuts for the maintenence crew every now
and then. Saved me from having to park quite a ways away where the
other contrators were parking.
Now I bring donuts to work once a month as a 'thanks' for the outlet
my employer provides for EV charging.
Ralph
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--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Apr 2006 at 23:45, Calvin King wrote:
> I would also like to add a DC-DC converter, but don't really
> know where to begin.
Here are some examples that should work for you, from dealers presented in
alphabetical order :
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/dc-dc.shtml
http://www.kta-ev.com/catalog/index.html#dcdc
http://www.metricmind.com/dcdc.htm
Some DC:DC units often used for hobbyist EVs are really just switching power
supplies or simple battery chargers that happen to work on DC inputs. These
have their proponents (mostly because they are relatively low in cost).
However, the ones shown above are explicitly designed for EVs.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Doughnuts will work wounders! At Chase Field (formerly Bank One Ballpark) there
are actually 7 charging spots that are still there. I got my conversion going
and a few months later had acquired some free tickets to the Insight Bowl
(college football game at a base ball park, kind of wierd but fun) so I jumped
in the Saturn and went knowing perfectly well I wouldn't have enough charge to
make it there and back, but it was ok because there was charging on site.... or
was there. I get there and all 7 spots are ICED. There is a security guard
stationed there and he won't help me for anything. Finally about a half hour
later and some calls to public relations and the main security office, I was
able to get him to move a vehicle so I could charge. We did not get off to a
good start to begin with.
The next time I went back it was durring an off day, but there was some stuff
going on at the ballpark so security was there. I brought a box of Krispy
Kreme's (these work best if you can get them), I asked how I could get a
message to him so if I was comming back durring a big event I could let them
know to keep a space open for me (these are primo spots so I can't blame them
for using them). No, he said that he would keep a cone in a space for me from
now on! He said I shouldn't have to do anything special to be able to use a
parking space designated for electric vehicles when one (mine) was actually
showing up. So John the security guard and I are buddies now!
The magic of doughnuts.
Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lee Hart writes:
>
>
> Bring donuts or contribute to the garage's coffee fund regularly, and
> remember the manager on his birthday :-)
Donuts are the key. I used to get a free parking pass at a client's
site by bringing a box of donuts for the maintenence crew every now
and then. Saved me from having to park quite a ways away where the
other contrators were parking.
Now I bring donuts to work once a month as a 'thanks' for the outlet
my employer provides for EV charging.
Ralph
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
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--- Begin Message ---
<<<Some DC:DC units often used for hobbyist EVs are really just switching power
supplies or simple battery chargers that happen to work on DC inputs. These
have their proponents (mostly because they are relatively low in cost).
However, the ones shown above are explicitly designed for EVs.>>>
Don't know if this is for EVs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7605277364
Here are some Vicor ones:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8787991091
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7605525631
Actually, a search for "vicor" at eBay comes up with plenty of units, but few
that are useable without some finagling.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello NEDRA fans,
The date for the Power of DC has changed from Saturday, June 3rd to
Sunday June 4th.
Apologies for the change of the schedule which was out of my control.
Although I made arrangements with the Mason-Dixon Dragway back in
December to hold the race on June 3, they have since decided to rent
out the track to the Washington County Tractor Pullers for their event.
Since those guys have the big bucks to rent out the track for a whole
day we get bumped to Sunday.
So we will be racing after the Jr Dragsters at noon on Sunday. I hope
this hasn't affected anyone's travel plans.
For sponsorship and racing information contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and visit our website at http://www.powerofdc.com
I'll be updating the website with the competitors and sponsors soon.
Hope to see you all June 4th.
Chip Gribben
Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have a SW200 contactor which is rated to 120V, and one of the
> options I'm considering for my conversion is 18x8V which would
> bring the total pack to 144V. I know some voltage limits can be
> bent, motors for example, but exceeding the contactor voltage
> rating makes me nervous.
With good cause! It's always best to be conservative when it comes to
safety systems.
But to be honest, contactor voltage and current ratings are not absolute
limits -- they are recommendations to achieve a specified life, under
specified conditions.
In your case, I think the Albright SW200 is specified to interrupt 1500
amps at 96vdc for 5 msec -- once! The manufacturer did enough testing to
be confident that they could guarantee this. In actual tests, it will
probably survive this 3-6 times before it literally fails.
As you go up in voltage, the current it can withstand, and the time it
can withstand it go down. The damage is being cause by heat, which means
Watt-Seconds, which means volts x amps x time. 1500a x 96vdc x 5msec =
720 watt-seconds. Let's say the arcing time at 120vdc doubles to 10msec;
then 720 watt-seconds is 600a at 120vdc for 10msec. Similarly, at 144vdc
it can safely withstand 250a at 144vdc for 20msec.
Here's another factor which helps. Your 8v batteries are probably
floodeds, so they have an internal resistance of at least 6 mohms. 18 x
0.006 = 0.108 ohms. At 600 amps, that causes a voltage drop of 65 volts!
So your 144v pack sags to 79 volts at 600 amps. So it is very unlikely
they will be able to simultaneously provide enough current and voltage
that the SW200 can't break.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Darin, Dana, James, All 8^ )
First off those pump motors are in fact a nice set of motors. Those are a
newer style of a 9044-E2 (the E2 had a better almost useable as is woodruff
keyed shaft). Dana has a 9044- number but I've never seen that one before ( I
know the E2's, AW's, and Y4's). I've thought about putting a pair of those as
a 156 volt racer for a while now. They are just shy of a ADC or Warp 8 but
wound for 36 / 48 volts. The brushes are a bit smaller than the newer 8's
(down side) but those are some steel comm armatures (plus side) Now the shaft
is the bummer side to using these and those shafts are made back when they had
Mammoths sitting on them to press the shaft in lmao!! If you can get the shaft
stuff worked out a single motor at 84 volts would deliver what your looking to
obtain and probably exceed performance wise, distance isn't my bag yet, but
these motors are built very well. Honestly I'd care to stumble across a pair
myself 8^ )
Now as James Massey noticed Dana's motor was manufactured by GE. Darin's 2
pump motors are manufactured by Otis material handling. All forklift motors
whether Clark, or Hyster, or Raymond, all have motors made by company's like
Advance, GE, Prestolite, and Ohio. Crown started manufacturing their own line
a few years back which copies the ADC style a lot.
Now although Otis is out of business I believe I may have a brush set in
stock or might still be able to get a set or two get them but they are a real
carbon based brush where a better grade would enhance brush life. You will
need to advance the brushes to push 84 volts though this motor. There is an
internal jumper that runs from the fields to the one holder pair. As memory
serves me there should be enough length to just rotate the plate using that
piece of cable. If the short side no longer reaches then you'll need to make a
new cable. It all screws together and couldn't be an easier retro-fit.
If you pull your cover bands I might be able to see how she looks for you. I
haven't seen one of those in like 17-18 years, hehe. Pretty cool stuff. Truly
fun motors don't you ever just scrap those out or I'll have to come out and ...
No idea on the big drive motor though, closer pics, any data tag shot, may
help. Being there are literally thousands of motor types out there and that
even the west coast and the east coast use different motors (Lift applications,
etc.) it's fun for me to see motors I know and thoughts of them getting a new
lease on life, way cool.
I'll end with this. From what I've seen so far these DC motors are digging
the over-volting. Lets just say allot more than they did the low-voltage life
of a forklift motor. The big deal here is advancing the brushes which (thanks
to racers out there who discovered it) allows you to pump in that higher
current without arcing your comms to death. Now being we have no data for what
those motors will do at 84 volts there can be no guaranty but these motors get
a 2 thumbs up seal of approval as being built like a brick house motor. But if
you can cram a pair of these in and say 120 - 156 volt, Zilla, sorry got kinda
excited, hehehe 8^ ) Markos little Fiat would freaking love one of those
motors over the 7" in Prestolte he's running now. Maybe I should pick a
monthly motor woody award and post the pics at the site, lmao. So far these
have Aprils vote. LMAO!
Hope this helps
Thanks for letting me have some fun
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Darin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Jim -
I already had a few pics taken. Unfortunately the closer pics are of
the pump motors. I believe the drive motor also has a motor no. on it;
I'll have a look tomorrow and post back. If there's any particular
angle you want to see let me know.
http://www.metrompg.com/offsite/baker-motors.html
Happy to provide the trip down memory lane!
cheers-
Darin
--
Jim Husted wrote:
> Ahhh a good old Baker motor. Are there any motor numbers on the motors?? If
> you take some pics and send them to me I might be able to ID them at least.
> I'm not familure with any shunt wound drive motor though so be fun to look
> at. Maybe jar my mem
> ory from days when I saw Bakers, hehehe. I doubt I'd have any real specs but
> once i know the motor I can throw out some feelers for ya.
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
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I did mine much the same way, but I sighted it with one
of those laser levels that you buy from Home Depot...
worked like a charm when road testsed...
Cor van de Water wrote:
Here is how I corrected the excessive toe-in of my Prius
(it was probably even out of manufacturer spec, but certainly
way too much to be "LRR" and I certainly noticed a jump up
in mileage after this correction)
- My garage floor is almost level, a car needs a push to start
rolling out onto the street, so I used this as my "basis".
- I looked up the Tread Width for front and rear wheels and
found out that the rear has a slightly wider Tread than front.
- I set the steering wheel straight and rolled the car back and
forth to settle tolerances.
- Then I checked when glancing along the outside wall of each
front wheel if I could see a slight of the rear wheel, when
the front and back side of the front tire were aligned.
(looking along it at hub height)
(If your rear Tread Width is smaller than front, it may help to
draw a chalk line outside the rear wheel at 1/2 the difference
as a target to aim for. In the above case, you may also draw a
line from front to the rear tires, hitting them at the front
Tread Width distance.)
At this point I noticed that the "line" of the front wheel ran
way past the rear wheel due to too much toe-in.
This was easily corrected on each front wheel and when I could
see a thin line of the rear wheel, about 1/2 the difference
between front and rear Thread Width, I noticed that I could
move the car more easily when pushing it by hand and the MPG
went up several miles per gallon.
Since zero toe-in is actually within manufacturer spec, I did not
worry about safety and handling and in fact it is still handling
very comfortably, I cannot pry the Prius out of my wife's
fingers, so it is good I like the electric truck....
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of ProEV
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: camber
Mike wrote
Raise your hand if you have a fast street driven EV? That's what I
thought.
I'm suspect that came across a little ruder than you intended. I also think
you might find that some of the people who have done the most thinking on
this question are in seriously power limited EV's such as Solar Raycers and
Eletrathon competitors.
Dave wrote
<Seems to me I saw something about improving less rolling resistance by
<front end alignment that zeroes camber.
It's been my experience that to minimize rolling resistance, most cars can
benefit from a basic alignment. Do the front wheels point the same way as
the rear wheels and do they both point the same way as the body?
Then setting the toe can help.
Finally camber might help but at the cost of tire grip while
cornering.
At ProEV, we always try to do a full alignment before we race a new car. The
alignment almost always uncovers a way to improve the car.
There are a million techniques to get the same information. Here is a rough
and ready way that will give most people useful information. What seems the
best way to me might not to others, so modify to suit.
Checking the alignment on your street EV can be done fairly cheaply if you
have a level, a ruler, some chalk, fishing line and do not mind crawling
around. Plumb bob, right angle and jack stands are optional. We
use a 12 foot builder's level in the race shop but a smaller level and a
long
straight edge work just as well.
Step 1: Find a level area.
Take your level and find a flat level area bigger than the car,
preferable with a hard floor. The area should be level fore and aft and
side to side. The more accurate you are, the more exact your results. NASCAR
teams pour special level floors but you can get workable
results with out being fanatical.
Step 2: Put your car in the center of your level area.
Center the steering wheel. Inflate the tires evenly. For better accuracy,
have someone sit in the driver's seat.
Step 3: Locate and mark the center line of the car.
There a number of things that can help you decide where the center line
should be. They can disagree and then you just have to choose. We start at
suspension pivot points. Use a plumb bob (or a string and a small weight)
and chalk to mark the position of the suspension pivot point on the floor.
Do
the same on the other side of the car. Draw a line between the two points.
measure the distance and mark the middle. Do the same thing with two pick up
points in the rear. Draw a line that connects the two middle marks and
extends out the front and rear of the car for at least a foot.
It would be nice if this center line comes out at the middle of the body in
the front and rear. If it does not, then you have to decide if you want your
body square to the air flow or your suspension symmetrical. For a low drag
street EV, keeping your aero body square to the air flow is probably worth
more. In that case, chose the center of the front of the body and the
center of the rear of the body. Draw a line between the two (and extend them
a foot behind and in front of the car).
Step 4: Mark a box around the car.
Using the center line, draw a line perpendicular to the center line and 1
foot in front of the car. It needs to extend a couple of inches beyond the
width of the car on either side. Do the same at the rear. Measure the same
distance out from the center line in the front and the rear and draw a line.
It should be close to the car. If all your corners are 90 degrees then you
probably measured right.
Step 5: Measure the wheel locations at wheel center height.
Fishing line and 2 jack stands make this easier. Check how high the center
of the wheel is. Set the jackstands at either end of one of the chalked
sidelines. Tie the fishing line to the jack stands at the wheel center line
height and pull it tight. It should mimic the chalk line but up in the air.
Measure the
distance between the fishing line and a point on the wheel face at the front
of the rim and the rear of the rim. Make sure the point you are measuring is
not odd-bent rim, odd bulge on tire, etc. Make sure your ruler is square to
the fishing line. Write down the measurements. Repeat for all wheels.
Step 6: Interpret the data.
The difference between the front and rear measurements on one wheel is toe.
If the distance from the front of the rim to the fishing line is greater
than the distance from fishing line to the rear of the rim, you have toe in.
Otherway around, toe out. Equal is zero toe.
Add the two measurements for a rear wheel and compare it to the sum of the
measurement for the front wheel on the same side. If the car has the same
size wheels and track, the totals should be the same. If not, your front and
rear wheel do not line up. More drag especially in the wet or snow.
If you add the two measurements for the rear wheel and compare it to the sum
of the measurement for the other rear wheel. If they do not match, the
wheels are offset to the body. Do the same for the front.
For the least rolling resistance, all 8 measurements should be same. That
would give you zero toe front and rear with the front and rear wheels lined
up square to the body. This will change the handling of the car. Do not do
this unless you know what you are doing and reconize that you might be
risking life and limb
in a possibly ill handling car.
Test the car in a safe area. Try it at different speeds and braking,
turning, accelerating and in combinations. If the steering wanders, try more
caster. If the turn-in is slow, increase the rake or play with the Ackerman
steering.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've got some experience with their EV6A-A and EVL16A-A (T105 and L16 size,
respectively) 6V AGMs, but not at EV-type currents yet.
They appear well-made and deliver rated capacity. You *must* observe their
caution against the use of washers between the cables and the battery terminal
if you use the 3/8" studs (the batteries I have have both 3/8" studs and SAE
posts).
What is the caution? Why not use washers?
Mark
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
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On Apr 1, 2006, at 3:35 PM, James Massey wrote:
Yes it does reverse the motor, since the current flow through motor 2
field is being reversed, relative to the forward direction and the
current flow through the armature. The current flow through motor 1
field is not being reversed, but since there is no current in reverse
through the armature of motor 1 that does not matter.
Thanx, I see! You have started with the default wiring of hooking each
armature to the opposite field.
It looks like a very good idea for a street car. My only concern would
be at the racing extreme. What might a slight current imbalance do in
parallel mode when the motor is already under extreme stress.
Paul "neon" G.
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Hmm, I'm not sure you can get "GOOD ACCELERATION" from an 84V pack of
flooded batteries.
The max you can get out of that pack is about 30 hp. My truck has a 30 hp
max and it's acceleration is lethargic at best. 0-60 in about 80-90
seconds.
So it really doesn't matter what motor you choose, you won't make your goal.
The 20 mile range is maybe doable with 14x6V, at least with a new pack.
You'll probably have to replace it after about 2 years though, when the
max range dips below 20 miles.
Also, I don't know if your controller is like my GE controller, but mine
won't kick in the bypass contactor untill the current drops quite a bit.
It's really only good for getting a little better top end, not for
acceleration.
> OK. Here is what I want in my 92 Festiva. Since I haven't bought the
> motor
> or batts, I have time to change my mind.
>
> I want GOOD ACCELERATION! Better than the ICE version (which was very
> slow).
> At least as good as my Toyota Corolla with 1.8 L, 4 cylinder engine. I'm
> not asking for a drag car, but I need to keep up with the hectic traffic
> here in
> Atlanta. If it can't do that, I'm not wasting my time or money.
>
> I wanted to use the GE EV-1 controller at 84 V with bypass (full 84 V,
> unregulated) for acceleration.
> 84 V, ~150 A is more than enough to keep the car rolling at 50 MPH. The
> bypass is for acceleration only.
>
> I need exactly a 20 mile range and a cruising speed of 45 - 50 MPH. I
> also
> want to keep the batt weight down. That's why I went with the 14 X 6 V
> design.
>
> I can use the 11" lift motor, 7" x 15" Sep Ex lift motor, 8" ADC, 9" ADC,
> or
> any other motor that I can find / afford for that matter.
>
> I can also use whatever battery pack option I can find and afford. The
> afford part means it has to be floded lead acid.
>
> So, what should I do? Do I have to change the controller? Should I be
> using
> the 9" ADC with 14 x 12 V flooded batts? I really had me heart set on
> using
> the 84 V EV-1 with bypass to keep the cost and weight down. But, it if
> won't
> give me good performance, then I'm not going to build it, and I might as
> well
> forget the project. Seriously, I won't build another underperforming car.
>
> Please advise.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
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>>As I recall MDR use a puddle of mercury to short two contacts. Ever
>>consider what will happen to the puddle when the car hits a bump?
>
> Yep, nothing. Not a puddle at all. A tube containing mercury and a
> closely fitted ceramic displacer. The displacer's motion is highly
> damped.
>
> Oh, I suppose that if you played Evil Knievel or something like that,
> the thing might momentarily open. But then, so would many other types
> of contactors. Bumping the contactor open is the main limit on
> off-road excursions on my GoBig scooter. I suspect that a momentary
> open would be the least of your worries. Picking parts of your pack
> up off the street would probably dominate your concerns.
Ah, well perhaps the mercury relays I have aren't really MDR then. I
picked them up at Dayton years ago. They all are clearly marked "this end
up" or "only use in an upright position" etc. I assumed that since they
care which way they are mounted that it would be possible to "bump" the
mercury out of place, I have actually tried though.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps, perhaps not. I've actually seen some interesting commercials on
satellite tv over here in the Middle East.
One stated "In the world wide search for oil, slightly over two barrels
are consumed for every barrel discovered"
Another claimed that some large percentage of the worlds oil (can't
remember exactly, but way over 1/2) comes from just five countries, then
it finishes by asking "what country do you live in?"
Both commercials were sponsored by Cheveron Oil.
> All the more reason for EV's (as though more reasons were necessary).
>
> http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7080760&tid=apc&sid=7080760&mid=19144
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks!
I been spending way too much time lately trying to figure out
batteries for my conversion. What a pain. Wildly varying prices (or
none at all), inconsistent specs, and way more factors than my little
brain can keep track of.
Resources like Uve & Hemp's battery pages are excellent starting
points, but seem to have fallen out of date. It would be great to
have an ongoing, updated database of batteries with prices, specs,
and real-world performance. Maybe Mike & I should add a few more
fields to the EVAlbum?
I've posted the results of my research in a new article and wanted to
solicit feedback.
http://www.evconvert.com/eve/the-battery-dilemma
There's a chart in the middle of the article listing a couple dozen
batteries with the prices and specs that I managed to find. Some of
the information is highly suspect: prices that are manufacturers
suggested rather than street price, generalized cycle numbers and/or
20hr rates. If you have first hand knowledge on any of the batteries
please send me an email and I'll update the chart. I'll also try to
migrate the data over to Mike's EVAlbum database once we figure out
how to represent it.
Thanks!
-Jerry
p.s. YAEVBA - yet another EV battery article! ":^)
http://www.evconvert.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan, screetching could be a bearing issue.
It could also be the sound of a spring rubbing against
a shock. Have you looked for places on the spring and
the shock which now appear to be metal-on-metal?
RE: Springs, I was able to get longer _and_ stiffer
springs for the Civvy, thanks to Ground Control. They
make an adjustable coil over, to accompany the shock.
Basically what that means is that I can have any ride
height I want. If you tell them the weight you've
added, they'll do the rest. Fair warning, it did take
two times to get it right in my case-- ie, just
stiffer, but same length didn't do it, so I had to
send those back and go both longer & stiffer. I paid
shipping one way, and they were awesome about it. It
_was_ expensive ($900), but it worked!
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Ever since I got the 200sx on the road, it has had a
> really strange
> sound coming out of the rear-end. It is IRS. 400
> lbs of Orbitals are
> in the backseat area. The before and after height
> measurements from
> ground to rear wheel-well metal were within about
> 1/2". The front of
> the vehicle is quite a bit lighter than it
> originally was. I did these
> height measurements (BTW, the front was close to
> original too) right
> after I got it on the road as an EV. Things could
> have settled now -
> I'd have to re-measure. It does look to be sagging
> in the back some and
> high in front. I'm guessing upon acceleration
> (which is the only time
> I hear the screeching noise from the rear end) the
> vehicle rolls back
> quite a bit. This could be causing something to rub
> during acceleration.
>
> The noise is really hard to describe. Screeching
> isn't the best word,
> but it's somewhat of a screech. It doesn't have to
> be a hard
> acceleration either. It's most pronounced when
> starting out in 2nd or
> 3rd gear. Less pronounced if I start in 1st gear -
> which I rarely do.
> On a hard acceleration it goes like this: immediate
> screech on takeoff
> and then it dies off after I get up to about 20 mph
> (still accelerating
> though). On moderate accelerations, you can feel
> the vehicle sort of
> "break away" when the noise disappears. That is, I
> think it's dragging
> quite significantly while the noise is present.
>
> The vehicle has 206k miles on it now. I suppose
> something could be
> faulty. I never noticed the noise before it was
> converted - granted it
> didn't have the 0 RPM torque that it has now either.
> I'm leaning
> towards something rubbing though, and guessing that
> if I replace the
> rear springs with something beefier, the rubbing
> might stop.
>
> This has been on my list of to-do's for quite
> awhile. Because I think
> it might be affecting my efficiency, I want to nail
> it down. Two
> questions for you all:
>
> 1) Does it sound likely that it is some rubbing due
> to a rear-ward
> rolling during acceleration and that replacing the
> springs with some
> that are more robust should solve the problem?
> 2) How do you go about finding beefier springs? Do
> you just go down to
> the local suspension shop and tell them you want
> something
> heavier-duty? Can you order them from somewhere on
> the web? Go
> scouring a junkyard? How do you know what to look
> for?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP
> Motors
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW, I had roughly the same thing happen, and when I
sent it in, there was an open trace on the circuit
board, due to acid vapor degrading it.
$50 and a week later, all was well.
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Got a K&WBC20 in Bob's Curbwatt & it's gassing &
> lost 5 of it's 10 charging
> amps. It seems to be stalling at 121.5 @ 5 amps.
> I'd think it should go to
> 124 and the amps drop to near zero. It's a new pack
> of US 125's @ (96v /16
> batteries). The charger is setup with the 102v
> resistor. Maybe a different
> resistor??????(the 108)
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> Vegetable Oil Car.
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
Or, you have multiple leakage paths from the battery
pack to ground. In my previous EV (with painted metal
battery holddowns and flooded batteries) i was
constantly fighting this problem.
If you want to find the source of the leakage, move
along the pack with your multimeter until it reads
something less than 6 (assuming 6 v batteries). Then
look around for a ground leakage path.
In my experience, once I cleaned one GF up, the next
one would show up. Going on pretty much for ever...
These are the joys of flooded battery ownership.
good luck
~fortunat
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 05:20 PM 1/04/06 -0500, Tom wrote:
> >Now I just checked it and I had 29 volts on the neg
> side and 34 volts on
> >the pos side. I measure this with the power packed
> hooked up ready to
> >drive. So I thought I would unplug the power pack
> and just measure it
> >from the power pack with nothing else hooked up.
> Well still got the same
> >measurements.
> >
> >My question is if there is a short to ground
> shouldn't I have like say 30
> >volts on one side and 90 volts on the other side if
> it is a 120 volt pack?
>
> Hi Tom
>
> If you has a *short* that is what you would have.
> You have *leakage*, and
> if those measurements are made with a digital
> multimeter then the leakage
> is in the order of meg-ohms, and so is nothing to
> worry about.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Does the 200sx have the cable operated emergancy brakes that push on the
brake piston like the 300zx? Maybe the cable is set to tight and the
brakes are dragging but in such a way that jacking it up releases load
on cable and looks ok. I just had to disassemble the rear caliper and
clean and grease the little rods, as my right rear caliper was stuck
pushing the rear shoe into the rotor and not pulling the front one and
not returning the rear shoe and dragging. This may be a nissan thing,
this is my first nissan since they were called datsuns.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First, I just wanted to thank all of you for your valuable advice concerning
my project. Books and internet research are one thing, but the experience of
this list (plus my experience with 3 EVs) is priceless. Maybe that should be
the new MasterCard commercial. Seriously though, I want you to have an idea
what I was trying to accomplish, budget, and my performance expectations.
Also, I want to tell you what I am basing my calculations on. Then, we can
have
an informed discussion.
First, what I am trying to do (design inputs)
1) Small, light weight commuter car. Note, around here, a commuter car goes
45 - 50 MPH for 10 miles back and forth to work each way. Why? Smaller,
lighter, etc. means more efficiency, less batteries, less weight to lug around,
better handling, easier to fabricate, lower cost to build and maintain.
2) A 20 mile usable range, 365 days a year, rain or shine, hot or cold. It
gets down to the mid 20’s here and as high as the high 90’s. Of course, for
my calculations, the mid 20’s yield the worst case range. I don’t want to
kill the batteries, so I was planning on a 70% DOD max (nominal on the coldest
day, 80% DOD absolute worst case on the coldest day if I have to make an extra
stop on the way home).
3) Clutch based system. Anyone who has used a clutchless DC system and got
the controller stuck full on knows why I personally insist on a clutch based
system. It happened to me once, and that was enough. Personally, I will never
drive a clutchless DC system. If it faults, and you can’t stop it, you can do
a lot of damage. Of course, people should and do install emergency cutoffs,
but that only works if your contactors don’t weld shut and you can react fast
enough before you run into something ... In my case, I ended up running the
car into a wall at full power, and nearly melted down the battery pack and
motor. The burn marks on the car were a constant reminder to me never to
design
another car like that one. Fortunately, I was able to save the car, but I did
a little damage to the controller, batteries, and motor.
4) A conversion budget of $4000 - $4500 (excluding the donor car). I arrived
at this number as follows:
- Motor - $850 (used). Could be as low as $150 (what I can get the
actual 11" diameter lift motor
from my old car which was later dismantled and sitting in a friends
garage as parts for,
or as high as $1500 for a new 9" motor
- Controller - $250 (used GE EV-1 complete). I paid $300 complete for
the one I put in the ETV-1.
Could be as high as $1800 for a new Zilla 1k if that is what is
needed for the design.
Could also go with a 600 A Rapture or other (used) if I can find
one.
- Batteries - $1000 (new) I don’t want to go over $1000 because of the
replacement cost.
- Charger - $400 (used). I think this is reasonable as long as I stick
with flooded lead acid.
- Wires and Cables - $250 (new, I make them)
- Battery Racks - $350 (new, I make them)
- Flywheel adapter - $50 (I already made it for that price, really I
did.)
- Mounting plate / Spacers / Rear Motor Support - $300
- Misc - $350. Room for mistakes ....
5) Things I didn’t include in the budget, and don’t plan to.
- no battery balancers / regulators
- no super sophisticated battery charger
- no high end high performance batteries
With all that said, I ended up with the following designs
#1 - What I planned to go with
- 92 Festiva
- 5 speed manual with clutch
- 9" ADC (used)
- 84 V GE EV-1B controller with existing bypass circuit for acceleration only
175 A max SCR chopped, 550 A max bypassed, fused at 600 A
- 84 V pack - flooded lead acid - 6 V batteries (T125’s)
- Custom adapter to flywheel (Steve Clunn method)
- Custom mounting plate
- Custom battery racks (front, mid, and rear)
- 3/0 from controller to motor
- 2/0 battery to battery
#2 - Option #2 (maybe, but will the performance really be worth the extra
cost)
- 92 Festiva
- 5 speed manual with clutch
- 9" ADC (used)
- 144 V / 600 A controller (used)
- 102 V pack - flooded lead acid - 8 V batteries
- Custom adapter to flywheel (Steve Clunn method)
- Custom mounting plate
- Custom battery racks (front, mid, and rear)
- 3/0 from controller to motor
- 2/0 battery to battery
#3 - Option #3 (least expensive)
- 92 Festiva
- 5 speed manual with clutch
- 36 / 48 V, 11" lift motor with brushed advanced that used to be in my 1970
Saab Sonnett
- 84 V GE EV-1B controller with existing bypass circuit for acceleration only
175 A max SCR chopped, 550 A max bypassed, fused at 600 A
- 84 V pack - flooded lead acid - 6 V batteries (T125’s)
- Custom adapter to flywheel (Steve Clunn method)
- Custom mounting plate
- Custom battery racks (front, mid, and rear)
- 3/0 from controller to motor
- 2/0 battery to battery
#4 - Option #4 (I think very much out of my budget)
- 92 Festiva
- 5 speed manual with clutch
- 9" ADC (used)
- Zilla 1k
- 168 V pack - flooded lead acid - 12 V batteries
- Custom adapter to flywheel (Steve Clunn method)
- Custom mounting plate
- Custom battery racks (front, mid, and rear)
- 3/0 from controller to motor
- 2/0 battery to battery
#5 - Option #5
- I give up and buy someone else’s car or give up completely! Seriously,
that is an option.
I am basing all this on my previous cars that you can look through the
archives and read about. My end goal is to achieve the performance (at a
minimum)
and cost to me of the ETV-1. You can read about its performance on-line. I
had $5500 in the car total when I sold it.
What do you think? Any suggestions? I am sure with all the knowledge out
there, somehow we can determine if this is feasible or not.
Thanks,
Steve Powers
Atlanta, GA
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