EV Digest 5310
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor options
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: internal resistance
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: More or Less the Attitude of the Oil Companies, Comments
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Motor options
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) "new" EV survey
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motor Field Weakening for higher RPMs
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Reverse, was: Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Motor Field Weakening for higher RPMs
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motor Field Weakening for higher RPMs
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Motor Field Weakening for higher RPMs
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Best 8V battery and best place to purchase 18 of them
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) batteries for the taking T-145
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Motor Field Weakening for higher RPMs
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Monster Garage EVent in Seattle!
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Anyone from FVEAA going to the Midwest AFV Expo???
by John Emde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: "new" EV survey
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Ammeter for newbie (continued)
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: 1996 E-10 on Ebay in Sebastopol, CA
by "EV Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: DC-DC converter: How to select?
by "electromc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Need a Bronco?
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
by "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Ammeter for newbie (continued)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: batteries for the taking T-145 an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Electro Automotive wrote:
We don't recommend less than 96V for a very basic street car, nor do
we recommend above 144V on the 9" motor.
I've run Blue Meanie's 'properly advance timed' ADC 9 inch motor at
156V for I think, 10 years now. Not a single motor problem, and the
original brushes are at around 75% still. Many others, like John
Bryan and his 192V Ghia with its XP super torque'n 8 inch ADC motor,
have also not had any problems at all....nor has Bill Dube's 192V
Wabbit...this list could go on and on.
Your privilege. But I sell these and have to warranty them. I want
the factory backing me up.
Shari, perhaps you are unaware, that ADC left Corbin hanging when their
8 inch motors all started to burn up, due to how they shipped them at
neutral timing, then didn't back their product up. They immediately
blamed everyone else, including the controller designers who's output
stages toasted when the motor arced to death. Funny thing (just using
your own words, Shari)...when the owners of Corbin Sparrows advanced the
timing, magically, all their motor and controller problems vanished.
Damon Crocket's DC Power Systems left the road going EV market over the
Corbin fiasco after losing lots of money trying to do the right thing by
warranting their Raptor 450 controllers that were burning up due to
ADC's improperly-timed motors that were fire-balling.
I have this funny idea of knowing the manufacturer (ADC) isn't smart
enough to advance the timing to 10-12 degrees so that their motors
will run properly for the market they sell them for...EVs.
I would love to see you tell Gary Dieroff to his face that he isn't
smart enough to build a motor properly.
Shari, please at least quote me accurately. I said "(ADC) isn't smart
enough to advance the timing to 10-12 degrees" I never said they weren't
smart enough to build a motor properly. They once did ship them properly
timed, then, when Gary was less involved in the whole EV motor business,
they without warning anyone, began shipping motors timed at neutral
without the ability to change timing holes. Actually, I'd love to talk
again with Gary. I've talked with him face to face before, and had no
problems talking straight talk with him. He'd more than likely want my
input, as he did back in '96 when he was amazed at the power I was
extracting from his 9 inch motor back then. We talked for some time
track side, about proper motor timing and how the ADC 9 inch had the
ability to run at higher voltages when properly timed. I doubt you ever
have similar 'high performance' conversations with him over 96V
conversions, though :-)
Can you say Corbin Sparrow?
That's Corbin's problem, not ADCs. The Sparrow had problems with
several drive systems.
Shari, you need to get your information correct before presenting it as
fact. The Corbin Sparrows had drive problems 'specifically' with every
motor controller they used, until motor timing was corrected that
stopped arcing. ADC was silent about their culpability in this. I had to
personally drill and tap a Sparrow motor for a friend who had one to
advance the timing. Guess what? After the mods were done, the car
stopped blowing controllers due to arcing caused by ADC's motors they
sold that were shipped at neutral timing! The car also accelerated far
better, too.
Add in the fact that most of the Electro Automotive designs feature
very heavy conversions with lower than average power, and you are
asking the motor to work under even more duress. Most of the Electro
Automotive designs use the squealing Curtis controller
Here we go again. I've never heard the Curtis squeal except backing
out of a parking space, when it serves nicely as a pedestrian
warning. In forward motion, I accelerate through that low speed
squeal too quickly to notice it.
Perhaps your hearing is impaired? Review the EVDL archives of all the
complaints from EVers, especially those who were embarrassed at parade
events, EV car shows, etc. over comments about the noise their Curtis
powered EVs made.
(Yes, even in my pitiful low voltage, low current car, I can
accelerate that quickly!)
Prove that, please. Please show data on the 0-60 of your 96V Rabbit
conversion. At the sagged voltage under the 500 amps that squealer
makes, you've got 40 hp to move 2900 lbs.....yeah, I bet it really
hauls! I'd bet you've never, ever, drag raced it on a track with real
timing devices. I'll help you out here... My guess, is that it would
have a 2.5 second 60 ft., that the 0-60 would take 17-19 seconds, and
that top speed on level ground might be a real 85 mph, given several
miles to get there.
And as for low performance, I have more often been held back in a 96V
Rabbit by slow gas cars than vice verse. I have even passed gas cars
going uphill....Sweeping generalizations about "most people" are
usually misleading.
And you talk about sweeping, generalized statements? This hardly backs
up your talk. Try hard facts, please. Try it like this....
The stock 1981 Rabbit weighs 1775 lbs., has 74 hp, and takes 12.6
l-o-n-g seconds to get to 60 mph. In today's terms when the average
economy car does the 0-60 run in 8-9 seconds (even the squeaky clean
running 70+ mpg Honda Insight does it in 10.4 seconds), a 13 second 0-60
time is considered s-l-o-w! Keep in mind, this is for the light weight
gas version...I haven't gotten to your 2880 lb. EV conversion yet.
Now, pull the gas engine out that weighs 220 lbs. and the light weight
gas tank and fuel lines and such, and you 'might remove $250 lbs. of
stuff. Now, put in the ADC 9 inch at 143 lbs., the adapter set to mate
it to the tranny at ~ 30 lbs., a controller and braketry at 20 lbs., and
the brackets and cabling for for all the batteries at around 50 lbs.,
and you just negated the weight you removed. Now, add in 16, 70 lb.
batteries and you've added 1120 lbs. to the car. 1775 lbs. + 1120 lbs.
gets you 2895 lbs. (100 lbs. more than Shari's claimed 2880 lbs.) Now,
most Rabbits weighed more, as in the 1983 version that weighed 2000
lbs......2895 lbs. + 225 '1983' extra lbs., and the car now weighs 3120
lbs. Gee Shari, sounds an awful lot like my quote "a 96V Rabbit, a
small car that unfortunately weighs in at over 3000 converted lbs."
Let's just round the conversion weight to 2900 lbs. and give Shari the
nod here. Shari, again, please give the 0-60 time of a 2900 lb. car with
40 hp to move it, compared to a 1775 lb. car with 74 hp that we know
does 0-60 in 12.6 seconds, and that is generally regarded by all
automotive testers, experts, and drivers to be very slow in terms of
acceleration power.
And the poor ADC 9"/Curtis 20x6V Voltsporsche? 90+mph. Yeah, pretty
sad and inadequate.
Actually, it is when you consider several things....like how long it
takes to 'finally' arrive at 90 mph, as in the 0-60 time of probably 16
seconds, and as in how it slows on steep hills struggling with all the
extra weight (1400 lbs. of lead) and only 50 hp to drag it all up said
hill.
Rant:
There are a lot of different kinds of people who drive EVs. This
means "most people you hang out with", which is generally a
like-minded group, a subset of the EV universe, not the whole.
Actually, I like to compare EV performance to the gas cars we all want
to replace them with, something you seem to nicely avoid when talking
about 96V conversions.
If we could refrain from calling other people's well-loved conversions
"dogs", "slugs", "underpowered", and similar slurs and recognize that
satisfactory performance is very subjective, then I will continue to
refrain (as I have until this moment) from comments about testosterone
poisoning and cars as penile prosthetics.
End Rant
Whew....thank god the rant stopped!
Shari, you triggered my post when you used the disrespectful wordage "We
have this funny idea that we believe in following manufacture
ratings..." in response to Jim Husted's sincere and knowledgeable
comments. Your tone was derogatory at best, and Jim certainly didn't
deserve the treatment.
You need to read what you write before taking a holier than thou stance
as in the above comments. To be clear, I only referred to my car I once
owned that I very appropriately named 'Sluggo'. You're now telling me I
can't name my own cars? I also quite accurately stated "most of the
Electro Automotive designs feature very heavy conversions with lower
than average power". Compared to the stock 1775 lb. Rabbit, a 2900 lb.
Rabbit is a 'heavy conversion'. Compared to the 2000 lb. 914, your 120V
conversion 914 at 3400+ lbs. is indeed, a heavy conversion. Your 96V
Rabbits are slow, either compared to stock gas Rabbits (which can run
off and hide from your conversion) or other Rabbit conversions with
considerably better power to weight ratios. I also stated "a
prescription for low performance" in regards to a 3000 lb. car with just
40 hp...no knowledgeable automotive person would call that anything but
the honest truth. Apparently, you have a problem with an honest
assessment of things like this?
If you want to talk about your conversions as being reliable,
affordable, or in being adequate to get from point A to point B, that's
fine with me, and you'll get no arguement. Expousing the performace of
heavy low voltage, low current conversions as comparable to gas cars
though, is not wise, nor is challenging the opinions of expert electric
motor folks like Jim Husted. You might just learn a few things from his
25+ years as a DC motor rebuilder.
Please, the slurs only came from you, Shari...."testosterone poisoning
and cars as penile prosthetics". I rest my case.
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Norton wrote:
> Sounds like you have plenty of NIH in you, too.
No doubt; I'm sure we all do. But I try to keep an open mind, and
consider as many approaches to a problem as possible.
> GM isn't the only EV manufacturer that prefers AC over DC. Solectria,
> Ford, and Chrysler went that route, and so has Toyota, in both full
> EV and hybrid application.
Yes. And all of them are very expensive and complex.
I think there was a deliberate interest in trying the "AC solution",
precisely because it was less well explored. They didn't have to compete
or deal with the existing DC EV motor and controller maufacturers (no
worries about outside vendors, patent licensing, etc.) They could
explore new territory themselves, and lock it up with their own patents.
AC also has the potential to be cheaper in the long run (i.e. decades in
the future) if/when some of the technical problems are solved.
But for the present, AC has not really delivered on these promises. It
turned out to be harder and more expensive than they thought. They
didn't discover any revolutionary breakthroughs that could reap huge
benefits. AC systems are better than DC, but not enough better to
justify their higher cost in the mass-produced automobile market.
It looks like Toyota will be the first one to perfect the AC motor drive
system to where it can achieve parity with other options. The Prius was
initially cost-subsidized, but they have apparently reached the
break-even point and are confident enough of the results that they are
pushing forward to use it in all their vehicles. But note that they are
NOT using the induction motors usd by all the US manufacturers for their
EVs; Toyota is using brushless DC (permanent magnet AC synchronous)
motors.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:00 pm, Neon John wrote:
Some of you lunatic fringe eco-whackos delusionally think you "know"
but you don't.
This so much reminds me of the old Marine Corps saying, "If I'd wanted
your opinion, I'd have beaten it out of you."
This list is about EVs and not about eco-nazi spew.
And don't forget, John would like your vote for NEDRA V.P.!
LOL
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Apr 2006 at 22:18, John Wayland wrote:
> The stock 1981 Rabbit weighs 1775 lbs., has 74 hp, and takes 12.6
> l-o-n-g seconds to get to 60 mph.
L-o-n-g? Maybe to John, but that sounds plenty fast to me.
I don't want to get too involved in this exchange, but I do want to point
out to both parties that "fast" and "slow" mean different things to
different people.
John would find the Solectria Force's acceleration excruciating. In fact,
I'm pretty sure he's said something along those lines in the past. But
that's OK; I don't offend easily. His opinion of the car doesn't harm me
one bit, and he has a way with words that I find entertaining. (Some others
do, some don't. Some chuckle when he refers to their cars as slugs; others
get annoyed. So it goes.)
In fact John's opinions tell me a fair bit about John, which allows me to
better evaluate how his views might apply to my needs - a good thing. His
comments on the VoltsRabbit suggest to me me that I'd probably find one
entirely adequate. That's nice to know. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I played with alternate vacuum ideas.
Using a compressor is not as easy as it sounds. The small tire
inflators take the air thru the windings and thru the piston so they
dont actually have a place to hook a hose for vacuum.
I found one for SUV's called "Tsunami" at pep boys, I unscrewed the air
filter, added a checkvalve and used the vacuum switch that came with the
1987 300zx to control a relay to then control the compressor. I figured
I could always just connect the recoil line to the disconnect and open
the vacuum line when I wanted to pump up my tires. :-)
Well it worked too well. It pumped down in 4 seconds but it was noisey.
running at a high rpm and transmitting alot to the body. I changed it
with a smaller unit made for brakes and am still not that satisfied.
I even tried this wild senario: disconnected the vacuum line and with an
adapter, applied 14 psi on a regulator to the under dash side of the
brake booster, It's operation was the same, Vacuum is left over from
the ICE, it was what they had plenty of to work with.
Then I bought a vicor dc-dc off of ebay, and per Lee's help, used that
for my dc-dc. You need some additional components, most from a PC power
supply and if you look thru the archives, you will see that mentioned.
Heatsink,MOV,fan,capacitors,fuses blocking diode, common mode inductor,
etc. I have a full size orbital as my aux battery and this dc-dc puts
out 50Amps so it all seems to work quiet nicely. This choice was
partially becasue of my higher voltage pack. An issue with a dc-dc is
the voltage range. In my case of a 288V nominal pack, dips to 240 under
load near end of range and 350V acceptance voltage on charger, the dc-dc
needs to have that much operating range at a minimum.
I have been thinking about cruise control. Why didn't I use the original
throttle body? Crusie control would work and the throttle position
sensor is a 5K ohm pot like the hairball wants to see.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For the series motor, the simple way is just a contactor and a field
weekening resistor I believe. Others on this list can chime in here.
We just waste some energy in the resistor so there is less in the field
without reducing armature current.
K1 R1
|---| | --/\/\/\/\/|
| |
M+ ---|-----field----|-----armature-------M-
As James explained it is all about amp turns 500 turns at 5 amps is the
same as 500 amps at 5 turns, magnetically speaking. so the "sep-ex"
controller takes advantage of this and runs the field seperately as a
low amperage circuit. This gives controllable regen, reverse, and I
guess field weeking at speed. This seems like a better way to go, but I
think they are not as available. Perhaps the performance guys can tell
me do they have less stall torque ??
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:45 PM 1/04/06 -0800, Paul "neon" G wrote:
Thanx, I see! You have started with the default wiring of hooking each
armature to the opposite field.
It looks like a very good idea for a street car. My only concern would be
at the racing extreme. What might a slight current imbalance do in
parallel mode when the motor is already under extreme stress.
Hi Paul, and all
Well, 20 mins on the 'phone to John Wayland on the weekend and John sees
merit in it. It does rely in part on matching the motors to tight
synchronisation. Final version:
P1 (Parallel
contactor #1)
o=o F1 A2
B+[]M+==o o===@@@===@@@=======M-
Zilla | | | Zilla
| | S | [B-
| | o=o |
| |==o o===| |
| | P2 |
| F2 A1 | o=o |
|==@@@==|=@@@=|=o o==|
| |
| |=========|
| |
o=o | | o=o
|====o o=| |=o o======|
| Reverse contactors |
| |
|=B+M+ M-
| [24V (or 12V ]
| [ if enough) ]
| [ aux controller ]
| B-
| |
|====B+ B-==========|
Reverse
battery
John thinks that 12V may be enough to give useable reverse, he has plenty
of available low-voltage controllers, if 12V will do it then just to switch
his auxiliary battery over with a DPDT or two SPDT contactors, to provide
motive power for reverse, leaving the DC/DC to keep the 12V system alive.
Just to run through it one more time, in reverse B+ from the reversing
battery is switched onto the motors by a low-power contactor, current
passes through the field of motor 2 in reverse to the forward direction,
through Parallel #1 contactor (the only one of the forward contactors that
is engaged), through the field of motor 1 (which generates but since one
end of the armature goes nowhere it has no real drag), through the armature
of motor 2 in the 'forward' direction, through the second reversing
contactor to M- of the reverse controller, and back to B- of the reversing
battery.
John is going to discuss this with Otmar, but does anyone else see any
issues that need to be considered?
Thanks
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sun, 2 Apr 2006
21:34:29 -0700
> You parallel the field with a length of wire and a push button connecter
> to keep it on for the part of the run where you need higher RPM
> Bob Boyd
I think my controller has this built in. I have played with it a bit but still
don't have a clear understanding of it. I think my controller came from a fork
lift. It's a GE.
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sun, 02 Apr 2006
22:33:33 -0500
Can you please explain how this ties into the "knee point" that my controller
has?
This is great info, thanks
> okay...that makes sense...then how do you reduce the voltage
> (I assumed to the field windings) without lowering your RPM's?
> Does this take tachometer feedback into the controller and
> the controller slowly backs off the voltage while still monitoring
> the RPM's???
>
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> > I'll take a stab at it.
> >
> > Every motor is a generator, simultaniously. The difference at any time
> > between the applied voltage and the generated voltage (Back EMF) is
> > available to push current thru the windings and generate torque. It is
> > why the torque diminishes as RPM's climb.
> >
> > At high rpms the voltage generated is too high and is blocking the
> > current flow in the armature, reduce this voltage and some current will
> > flow giving you some more torque. At zero rpm it would only detract from
> > the motors output since there is no BEMF yet.
> >
> >
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:16 AM 3/04/06 -0600, Dale Curren wrote:
> You parallel the field with a length of wire and a push button connecter
> to keep it on for the part of the run where you need higher RPM
I think my controller has this built in. I have played with it a bit but
still
don't have a clear understanding of it. I think my controller came from a
fork
lift. It's a GE.
Hi Dale, and all
I'm guessing that is a GE-EV1 controller that uses SCRs as the power stage,
if not then a related controller. One way of setting them up uses a bypass
contactor that shorts out the main SCR once it is out of current limit and
at full throttle, giving a little 'jump' in speed as it does so, and going
quiet at the same time.
This is because if you leave an SCR controller at 100% on for a little
while, the charge stored in the SCR 'switch-off' capacitor can leak away,
and you have to drop the main contactor to get it off, where by using the
bypass contactor the control SCR is off and then the 'turn-off' capacitor
can get charged before the SCR turns on again when the bypass drops out.
Dale, does this sound like what you have?
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 0:26, Lee Hart wrote:
> :
> No, he really was an engineer, and had worked on the inverter and motor
> designs a lot. He was indeed an expert in the field of AC motor
> control. Unfortunately, he knew almost nothing about DC motor control.
> :
John Norton wrote:
> Sounds like you have plenty of NIH in you, too. GM isn't the only EV
> manufacturer that prefers AC over DC. Solectria, Ford, and Chrysler
> went that route, and so has Toyota, in both full EV and hybrid
> application.
> :
> Toyota, on the other hand, is quickly becoming the #1
> manufacturer in the world, while selling and popularizing real world
> (P)EV's that require no major compromises.
>
> And they are not following your prescription to do it.
>
> So I would say that your words on learning from experience and history
> are good advice, just make sure to apply them in both directions.
As a sometimes AC EV snob, I think Toyota _demonstrates_ Lee's point even
though they didn't choose DC. (I hope he will agree.)
The history of EV and HEV development at Toyota has a long history, strong
evidence of learning along the way, and continuity. The American manufacturers
use bang-bang management. You are making heavy commitments or doing nothing.
And doing nothing implies memory loss so the next ON cycle is from a standing
(and ignorant) start.
> (We've had the great AC v. DC argument before, btw. Edison, a great
> engineer, lost it.)
No he didn't. High power DC motors are everywhere. He didn't win it either.
No one gets it _all_ right. But he sure did contribute!
We need both wide and deep knowledge and that rarely occurs in one person, so
we cooperate. And keeping a record of the argument is important. Otherwise
we wind up with dogma and the _next_ innovation gets stalled by those who
"know" the right answer!
--
Mike Bianchi
Tour de Sol is coming! www.TourDeSol.org
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--- Begin Message ---
US Batts. about 1.5 yrs. ago from Interstate: $78 for
the 178 Ah, and $72 for the reg. (165 Ah) type.
If you want straight to su casa, add $200-300 on for
direct shipping.
--- John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:45, Adams, Lynn wrote:
> > Well my experience:
> >
> > US8VGC 12000 miles
> > US8VGC-HC 14,000 miles but more acid leak
> > Trojan T875 16,000 miles
> > Trojan T890 Sold car at 14,000, expect I would
> have gotten at least 18K
> >
> > Battery cost per mile, about the same across the
> board.
> > I would recommend either the US8VGC or the
> Trojans, depending on price.
> >
> >
> > Keep the batteries warm in the winter and cool in
> the summer will help.
> >
> > You can have the US batteries shipped right to
> your door, a nice
> > feature
> > (and still costs less than the Trojans)_
> >
>
> Also researching as I begin the ev road - what about
> Exide gc110's in
> 8v? Kingsolar has them @ $79.
>
> What prices are available on the Trojans and USB?
>
>
> John F. Norton
> via T-Mobile Sidekick
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all,
I am cleaning out the garage and have a pile of
batteries that I would like to get rid of. They are
Trojan T-145s. I have a total of 18 of them. They were
used for about 3 years in my Jetta, and seemed to be
in good shape when I took that car off the road, but
they have now been sitting for the last couple years
in my garage. I was planning to use them in my fiero,
but I have gone with BB600's instead.
I am wondering if anyone here has any need for them.
They probably aren't much good for a full range EV
anymore, but they might be useful as a test pack for a
new conversion or as a battery bank for a solar system
or the like.
anyway, let me know if you are interested. We are
moving in a couple of weeks and if I don't get any
interest, I will need to take them to the recycler
sometime soon.
oh yeah, I am in West Hartford, CT; and obviously, if
you want them, you have to come get them.
~fortunat
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** Reply to message from James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 03 Apr
2006 22:11:26 +1000
> At 05:16 AM 3/04/06 -0600, Dale Curren wrote:
> > > You parallel the field with a length of wire and a push button connecter
> > > to keep it on for the part of the run where you need higher RPM
> >
> >I think my controller has this built in. I have played with it a bit but
> >still
> >don't have a clear understanding of it. I think my controller came from a
> >fork
> >lift. It's a GE.
>
> Hi Dale, and all
>
> I'm guessing that is a GE-EV1 controller that uses SCRs as the power stage,
> if not then a related controller. One way of setting them up uses a bypass
> contactor that shorts out the main SCR once it is out of current limit and
> at full throttle, giving a little 'jump' in speed as it does so, and going
> quiet at the same time.
>
> This is because if you leave an SCR controller at 100% on for a little
> while, the charge stored in the SCR 'switch-off' capacitor can leak away,
> and you have to drop the main contactor to get it off, where by using the
> bypass contactor the control SCR is off and then the 'turn-off' capacitor
> can get charged before the SCR turns on again when the bypass drops out.
>
> Dale, does this sound like what you have?
I found the number of the controller.
IC3645SH7R353T2
As a near-complete novice to this sort of thing, it means nothing to me.
Dale Curren
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Monster Garage goes Electric!
You heard me right! The FINAL episode EVER of Monster Garage (that
famous Discovery Channel show starring Jesse James) is going to air on
April 10th @ 9pm Pacific time and the build is going to be an ELECTRIC
HOT ROD!
What? You must be kidding? NO JOKE!
Mind blowing to be sure.
What's more, a good friend of this list, Rich "MadMan" Rudman of
Manzanita Micro also stars on the build team!
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/
For those of you in the Seattle area, we are going to have a viewing
party and the MadMan himself is going to be attending along with former
NEDRA president Roderick Wilde, the president of the local Seattle
Electric Vehicle Association and many more famous faces from the NW
electric vehicle scene. This is a rare opportunity to rub elbows with
some of the most colorful characters in the EV space.
Festivities start on Monday 4/10/06 @ 7pm at "Fremont Dock" located at
1102 N 34th Street, Seattle, WA.
Here is the map:
http://tinyurl.com/lxdg2
If you are not in the area or just cannot attend, be sure to catch it on
the tube, as the MadMan said he was about ready to take out his famous
2x4 and wack a few skulls during the high stress build. Will they be
successful? Will the first ever Electric Monster Hot Rod get blown up as
a colossal failure?
You know you gotta be there to find out!
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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Joel
As of now there is no mailing list. Where are you from ??
Later
John
On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 22:28:04 -0500 Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> I don't know if there is a mailing list for the FVEAA
> (Fox Valley, Illinois), but I am interested in going
> down to the Midwest AFV Expo and wondered if anyone
> else was going to I could hop a ride with, meet some
> new friends, and split the gas money with to see the
> event.
>
>
>
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Seth Rothenberg writes:
>
> As for vacuum, what kind of rating do people look for....
> and, is a compressor rated the same way, such that
> one could shop for a compressor - some have done this, right?
Seth,
I have a vacuum pump for sale. It's the same as this one:
http://www.evconvert.com/article/electric-vacuum-pump
It works pretty well and is fairly quiet when not mounted directly
to metal. I'm using a one of the pumps from Metric Mind now, so
this one is spare.
Make me an offer...
Ralph
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Hm....in selecting a proper ammeter for me Comuta Van, I recently realized
that I have no idea how many amps (maximum) that my vehicle will draw so I
don't know what range to build into my meter.
I'll post my configuration and perhaps someone with experience can help me
guesstimate the proper range meter to build/buy:
72 volt traction pack. Accessories running off of "house" battery.
Curtis 1221B controller.
12 hp GE motor.
2-0 cable all the way 'round.
This is what I envision:
I have the Curtis volt meter to basically warn me when I'm running close to
"empty".
The purpose of the ammeter is to give me kind of a moment-by-moment view of
my consumption of energy. That way, if I see that I'm drawing too many amps
at a given moment, I may be able to correct my driving habit to drive more
efficiently.
The Curtis bar-graph voltmeter gives me "time-late" data. By the time it
drops a notch it's too late.
If I am wrong in my supposed application of an ammeter, please let me know.
Thanks,
Rich A.
Maryland
_________________________________________________________________
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Ok, stupid question.... Why does the voltage meter show 300v? I thought
they all ran off of 144???
Dave banas
Philadelphia, PA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 4:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 1996 E-10 on Ebay in Sebastopol, CA
Buy it now is "only" $12,900
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4627153299QQrdZ1
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
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You are building an electric 58 harley servi ?
Marco
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 7:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: DC-DC converter: How to select?
Be aware that the Curtis 1400 doesn't span the 24-96 volt range all in one
unit. The common one I have seen on ebay is 24-36 volt input. I couldn't
tell from this description what the input rating is and the part number
doesn't come up in a search of the Curtis site.
OTH, I have a 1400 installed on my electric servi and it is working happily
at 24V input during my testing.
respectfully,
John
58 electric servi-car in progress
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: DC-DC converter: How to select?
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 17:48:25 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
>
>>Wow, this guy has almost 1,000 negative feedbacks _in
>>the past month!_
>>
>
>
> I am only in for 99 cents so far. I will chance it.
>
>
>
> Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 1981 Jet Electrica, Ford Escort
> My daughter named it, "Pikachu".
> It's yellow and black, electric and
> contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
> http://evalbum.com/702.html
>
>
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Just to clarify...is it the zilla the does the switching,
or does it just give a signal to contactors (like a small
relay coil current) to the contactors to do the switching
from series to parallel?
Jim Husted wrote:
Hey Don
I'll chime in here with what I know. First John Wayland is the only one running a Siamese motor to date, Matts running what I'd call a twin motor setup (sorry Matt 8^ P ). Both run the same but there are alot of differences, mostly weight, length, and shaft styles. Everything you've stated looks correct to me, except the reverse contactors. If it were just 1 or 2, I'm sure Wayland and Matt would have them installed by now. I'm still scratching my head on how to get these to reverse easier than a standard contactor reverse. As to the shift, the Zilla controlls when it shifts or it can be set to manual, either way it tells the contactors when to trip. If set for auto then the Zilla will shift when the amps come down to half (maybe able to be set at what ever you want it to shift at, Otmar??) So if the guys jam the peddle and pop 1800 amps it shifts at 900 and yes this would be racer scary (trust me, hehehe)(Tim gave me a fun ride last month, lmao!) if you take off
a!
t a lower
speed it would shift with a less back slamming force. Right now getting the
reverse worked out is the real head scratcher.
Hope this helps, I'll let the masters chime in now, hehehe.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com
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I could probably use this for my NEXT EV, but
I don't have any more parking spots...
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:45:33 -0400
From: "JoAnn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FS: 89 Ford Bronco
my son has a older ford bronco truck......it's small.....not one of the
big ones it runs well.....always serviced....with records
high miles 6 cyl stick
he bought it from a dealer a couple of months ago and found it to be too
small to use for work so he went and bought a huge pickup truck.....so now
we need to get rid of the bronco
he paid 700 and would like to recoup....but will take bo
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Sorry...I am a bit behind on my reading...
thanks for the great explanation from Shawn Waggoner,
He already answered the question.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hacker Joel-QA6240
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 10:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
Just to clarify...is it the zilla the does the switching, or does it
just give a signal to contactors (like a small relay coil current) to
the contactors to do the switching from series to parallel?
Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey Don
>
> I'll chime in here with what I know. First John Wayland is the only
> one running a Siamese motor to date, Matts running what I'd call a
> twin motor setup (sorry Matt 8^ P ). Both run the same but there are
> alot of differences, mostly weight, length, and shaft styles.
> Everything you've stated looks correct to me, except the reverse
> contactors. If it were just 1 or 2, I'm sure Wayland and Matt would
> have them installed by now. I'm still scratching my head on how to
> get these to reverse easier than a standard contactor reverse. As to
> the shift, the Zilla controlls when it shifts or it can be set to
> manual, either way it tells the contactors when to trip. If set for
> auto then the Zilla will shift when the amps come down to half (maybe
> able to be set at what ever you want it to shift at, Otmar??) So if
> the guys jam the peddle and pop 1800 amps it shifts at 900 and yes
> this would be racer scary (trust me, hehehe)(Tim gave me a fun ride
> last month, lmao!) if you take off
a!
> t a lower
> speed it would shift with a less back slamming force. Right now
getting the reverse worked out is the real head scratcher.
> Hope this helps, I'll let the masters chime in now, hehehe.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
> http://www.hitorqueelectric.com
>
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Richard Acuti wrote:
> in selecting a proper ammeter for me Comuta Van, I recently realized
> that I have no idea how many amps (maximum) that my vehicle will draw
> so I don't know what range to build into my meter.
>
> Curtis 1221B controller.
The controller limits the maximum current. The 1221B-66xx (48-72v
version) is good for 500 amps max; the 1221B-6A7xx (48-80v version) is
good for 550 amps max. As a practical matter, a 500 amp ammeter is fine;
neither will deliver its peak current as soon as it warms up even a
little bit.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Hi Fortunat;
Don't throw them away! I'll give them a loving home, with my collection
of Electracs, and stuff. BTW Remember when we, you an' I and Dave Cover at
the last Solar meeting one of you said that ya had a DC motor you wanted to
have checked out? Try this guy in Newington, CT just south of Hartford,
Gilmartin Electric@ 860-667-8024, his name is Brian. He fixed a blown out
armature coil in my ancient Baker motor I had, years ago. I couldn't use it
because it was too BIG to go on a Rabbit tranny.For a pickup truk, it would
do fine.I just called him, to see if he was still around, and a heads up.
Seeya
Bob.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: batteries for the taking T-145
> Hey all,
>
> I am cleaning out the garage and have a pile of
> batteries that I would like to get rid of. They are
> Trojan T-145s. I have a total of 18 of them. They were
> used for about 3 years in my Jetta, and seemed to be
> in good shape when I took that car off the road, but
> they have now been sitting for the last couple years
> in my garage. I was planning to use them in my fiero,
> but I have gone with BB600's instead.
>
> I am wondering if anyone here has any need for them.
> They probably aren't much good for a full range EV
> anymore, but they might be useful as a test pack for a
> new conversion or as a battery bank for a solar system
> or the like.
>
> anyway, let me know if you are interested. We are
> moving in a couple of weeks and if I don't get any
> interest, I will need to take them to the recycler
> sometime soon.
>
> oh yeah, I am in West Hartford, CT; and obviously, if
> you want them, you have to come get them.
>
> ~fortunat
>
> __________________________________________________
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