EV Digest 5316
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Circuit_breakers,_fuses,_GFCI=B4s_=28newbie?=
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=29?=
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: EVLN(EVs: because it makes sense to do so)
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Anyone from FVEAA going to the Midwest AFV Expo???
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Motor overhaul progress
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Dual Motors to FWD axles - Anyone done it ??
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EVLN(EVs: because it makes sense to do so)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: How many amps driving my EV?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV digest 5315
by Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EV radio spot
by "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Motor options and my personal EVDL mission Statement
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Thanks for all the insight on my project
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor options and my personal EVDL mission Statement, Motors!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) bridge rectifier
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Motor overhaul progress
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: WAS: Speaking of Ignoring Ultra Cap
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV radio spot
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: identifying mystery forklift motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Dual Motors to FWD axles - Anyone done it ??
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: bridge rectifier, motors an' stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: identifying mystery forklift motors
by Darin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: identifying mystery forklift motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Aircraft generator
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Circuit breakers, fuses, =?iso-8859-1?Q?GFCI=B4s?= (newbie)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Don, Lee, Victor, Mark,
yes I have the Siemens manual. I just thought it is for testing
purposes only - for example there are no contactors in it?
---------
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion_chapter:
_high_power_electrical says:
"It is highly desirable to install a disconnect at each side of the
pack, forming a redundant circuit."
1) So are the contactors I got with the Siemens stuff ment to install
that way? (Of course I could ask this from HEC in Holland who sold
them.)
2) If I have a panic button in the dashboard and an inertial switch,
should they be in the same 12 V circuit as ignition switch to
disconnect contactors?
And yes, I´ve seen Don´s schematic in his excellent site. The picture
is a bit too small though, I cant read the text in it. (All the
pictures in the site are quite small. If you could open them in larger
size in a separate window, that would make the site even better.)
3) If I remember correctly, in some other schematics the fuse is in the
middle of the battery back (between batteries). Why is that?
Lee Hart wrote:
However, the EVs and hybrids produced by the auto companies *do* have
GFCI's that function when you are driving. They use special GFCI's
that
sense both AC and DC fault currents.
4) Are they very expensive? Can you give any links?
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ever wonder why electric vehicles aren't being promoted in this country?
Ranking of the nations largest publicly traded companies.
1. EXXON
2. Wal-Mart
3. GENERAL MOTORS
4. CHEVRON.
5. FORD
6. CONOCO
Any Questions ?
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: bruce parmenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:11 PM
To: evlist
Subject: EVLN(EVs: because it makes sense to do so)
EVLN(EVs: because it makes sense to do so) [The Internet Electric Vehicle
List News. For Public EV informational purposes. Contact publication for
reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://news.goldseek.com/MillenniumWaveAdvisors/1143388920.php
The Bottomless Well By: John Mauldin, Millennium Wave Advisors
A Quad Here, A Quad There [...]
Venture Capital and Writers
Today we begin what will be an intermittent series on oil and energy. Each
and every year there is a need for more and more energy of all kinds. [...]
Will we run out of energy?
Quick answer: no. But that implies a shift in how we currently produce and
use energy.
[... We] will see just as radical a transformation of our energy use. We
will see the car become an electric car. Not because we are running out of
oil, but because it makes sense to do so. And by becoming more efficient,
the paradox is that we will use more energy, not less! The car "engine" will
become an electric generator. Initially it will probably be some form of
internal combustion or diesel engine, but over time that will change.
Let's look at a few paragraphs from The Bottomless Well:
"Electricity is also taking over the power train in transportation - not the
engine itself, but the system that moves power throughout the car.
Diesel-electric locomotives and many of the monster trucks used in mining
have already made the leap to electric drive trains; the oil fired
combustion engine is still there, but now it's just an on-board electric
generator that propels nothing but electrons. The transition to the hybrid
electric car will be completed over the next two decades as well.
During this same period, electric power trains will supersede steel shafts,
belts, pulleys, and hydraulic systems in factories....
"Silicon-controlled electric actuators are now set to displace the steel
camshaft on every valved engine. Put each valve under precise, direct,
digital-electric control, actuated independently by its own compact electric
motor - open and close each valve as dictated by current engine temperature,
terrain, load, and countless other variables - and in effect, you
continuously retune the engine for peak performance. Belts, shafts, and
chains melt away. Everything shrinks, everything gets lighter, and every
aspect of performance improves - dramatically.
"The last step in this evolution will be the largest: silicon and electric
power will knock out the entire gear box, drive shaft, differential, and
related hardware - all of which disappear when direct electric drives end up
turning the wheels. .... power chips now make it possible to build
high-power motors the size of a coffee can, and prices are dropping fast.
"When such motors finally begin driving the wheels, the entire output of the
engine - anywhere from 20 kW to 100kW as measured now in standard electrical
units of power - will have to be converted immediately into electricity
before it is distributed, used, or stored throughout the car. It will take
heavy-duty wiring and substantial silicon drives and electric motors to
propel a hybrid-electric SUV down a highway at 70 mph - but they'll be far
smaller than steel structures in today's power train. Cars will shed many
hundreds of pounds, and every key aspect of performance will improve
considerably.
"A far-fetched scenario? General Electric's 6,000 horsepower diesel-electric
AC6000CW locomotive is powered by an enormous diesel-fueled engine-driven
generator; everything beyond is electric. Komatsu's 930E- a monster mining
truck with 300 ton capacity - is propelled by a megawatt (MW) Detroit
diesel-electric generator. Everything else, right down to the 12
foot-wheels, is driven electrically. All-electric drives already control
fighter jets and submarines. The surface ships now on the Navy's drawing
boards are all-electric, from the propeller to the guns."
Electric motors are getting smaller and more powerful with each passing
year. This will happen sooner than most realize. When you car is powered by
a fully electric power train, the car will look like one big moving
electrical appliance. Huber and Mills wrote:
"Given where battery technology is today, this appliance won't be able to
run any great distances on batteries alone, but it will nevertheless have to
have a substantial battery pack on board to provide surges of current when
needed. This creates, from the get-go, the possibility of at least some
opportunistic 'refueling' of the car from the [electric power] grid..." We
plug our car in at nights and at work, using cheaper grid power.
But current battery technology is not what will be in place in 10 or 20
years. The ever elusive fuel cell is becoming more and more of a reality.
Other new technologies are still in the labs.
While I cannot talk in detail, two weeks ago I was in a major university
research center with a well known venture capital fund manager, who politely
invited me to sit in with him as this university's researchers described
some of their latest gee-whiz discoveries.
The one which really caught my eye was a totally new substance to store
energy. They could make one gram of this substance store as much energy as
we now store in well over 400 grams of battery. Of course, this was in a
lab, with no real production. There will be lots of problems and issues to
overcome. But it is now a chemical engineering problem and not a theoretical
problem. Engineering is something we're good at. Some company (or companies)
will figure out how to exploit this and bring it to the marketplace. Or
maybe improve the concept!
Whether it is this technology or any of dozens being worked on in labs all
over the world, battery technology and the application of power for
transportation is going to be different in 2027 (not to mention 2017!) than
it is today.
[...]
Note: John Mauldin is president of Millennium Wave Advisors, LLC,
(MWA) a registered investment advisor. [...] John Mauldin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Copyright 2006 John Mauldin. All Rights Reserved
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey John!
I am from either Schaumburg or Mundeline right now.
(long story), Are you or anyone else from FVEAA going?
I can even meet someone off of 90/94/290/53/83 as they
travel through Northern Illinois to get to Joliet.
John Emde wrote:
Joel
As of now there is no mailing list. Where are you from ??
Later
John
On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 22:28:04 -0500 Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I don't know if there is a mailing list for the FVEAA
(Fox Valley, Illinois), but I am interested in going
down to the Midwest AFV Expo and wondered if anyone
else was going to I could hop a ride with, meet some
new friends, and split the gas money with to see the
event.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all
Well, the slow progress of my motor overhaul has reached another step,
finished tonight the new terminals for the fields and armature connections.
Pics at:
http://jcmassey.gallery.netspace.net.au/Daihatsu-pics-01?page=3 The
terminals are made from brass, 12mm diameter through the insulator, then
3/8 whitworth (like UNC) stud with a 5/8AF nut to give plenty of
cross-section. Final assembly will probably involve a fair bit of epoxy,
will make it a 'pain' to change anything later, but should make for low
leakage.
The six terminals are for series/parallel switching of the fields. I may
find that they can just be left in series or parallel, (use buss bars), but
to start with I'll use a switch on the 'dash' to select using some
contactors that'll be on the side of the motor.
I'm going to get the motor tube sandblasted in the next few days and then
away to a different motor shop to the one that "overhauled" my motor when I
first got it. I'm pretty sure that they put the motor tube with the fields
in it into their oven and forgot about it and destroyed the insulation -
someone has, but the armature is fine. The new windings will probably be
able to be done with greater cross-section area wire, as the old windings
had some kind of paper between each turn. I'll get the number of turns
dropped a little, too - probably 20 turns instead of 24 turns.
Apart from that, I've been working on the Zilla mounting, and the two
current shunts for motor and battery current. The Zilla will be in a steel
enclosure along with the two shunts and the circuit breaker, with a perspex
lid. No pics yet, though, apart from one on the first page of my album
showing the breaker after I'd cut it down from a 3-pole to 1-pole.
As always, comments welcome.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone know of a dual motor setup running directly to the FWD axles ??
Maybe a single motor - dual shaft- direct to FWD axles ?
That *could* be done, but you need a differential in there somewhere, and
a very slow-running, high-torque motor (1500 max rpm, 2500 ft-lbs) to do it
without any kind of gear reduction.
David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4 Apr 2006 at 6:49, Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> Any Questions ?
Please, let's not start another one of these threads so soon.
This is one of my points of interest, but in truth such discussions don't
really help. They may let some of us blow off steam, but they also provide
bait for a couple of list trolls who claim to be auto industry insiders.
Better we should help 'em keep their blood pressure under control. ;-)
Really, as much as I enjoy taking part in it, discussion here about why we
don't have EVs from Detroit (or Tokyo, Wolfsburg, or Seoul for that matter)
isn't too likely to convince them to build EVs. I think it's better to use
the list for discussion of positive personal action - specifically, building
your own EV. As Bob Batson's book says, "Why Wait for Detroit?"
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cor,
Some tips. An Emeter would greatly assist in understanding the real
numbers your truck generates. The other thing that was learned is that
a no load measurement of the pack can mislead you greatly. A couple of
us now use 60 amps as the load used for comparing data between our
vehicles. I know the voltage discharge curve is linear, but believing
that will bite you.
Any incline or decline in the road surface makes a big difference in
measuring WH/mile. What I do is go to a known destination, then
backagain. That averages out the topology. The Emeter never lies. Yours
eyes and assumptions will lie to you. I found this out when I got my
Emeter working. It has educated me greatly. So has recording the data
the truck generates on a laptop.
My most efficient drive: On the slow drive from Mckee and Capitol, up
101 to 880 west. Then up Coleman to Costco. Costco's Avcon charger is
not charging, although it is powered up. The round trip in afternoon
rush hour gave me an average of 260 wh/mile. My truck has low rolling
resistance tires rated 44 psi now at 50 psi. I can feel the difference
over the old tires. Normal lead foot driving gives me 400-450 WH/mile
in stop and go traffic.
Before I changed the Emeter over to WH/mile it would read AH/mile. The
average was 1 AH per mile. .9 AH on the expressways at 45 mph.
Mike
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (In the spirit of sharing actual driving consumption to
> help battery sizing - I get many questions like that)
> My vehicle:
> I have a 1994 Chevy S-10 (light truck)
> US Electricar conversion, see also:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/uselectricar/
> and I measured the amps while doing
> constant speed on the Freeway.
> (higher tire pressure and a break-in
> period have reduced amps from previous runs)
> NOTE: it was drizzling during this trip,
> which may result in slightly lower tire friction.
>
> Driving down Freeway 101 at 56 MPH:
> 55 - 60Amp at 312V
> (306 - 334 WattHour/mile)
>
> Going to max throttle, reaching 68 MPH:
> 100 - 110Amp. (almost twice the power!)
> (450 - 500 Wh/mile)
>
> I'll stay with 55-60 MPH whenever I can.
>
> (Taking off uses 140 - 200Amp and reaching
> 55 - 60 MPH in this 5000 lbs truck takes
> about 30 - 40 seconds. Not fast but adequate
> and I can keep up with most traffic but the
> gas guzzlers. Suits me perfectly.)
>
> BTW - Last Saturday I beat my previous max distance
> on one charge by going 55 miles and still having 315V
> resting voltage (12.1V per battery)
> I did notice my acceleration was more limited in the end,
> the controller has a configurable low voltage limit, which
> is set to 273V (10.5V per battery) and it will cut output
> when this limit is reached, so I will be unable to kill
> my batteries as long as they stay balanced.
> I was able to maintain speed, but hard acceleration quickly
> resulted in jerking, a sign of reaching the limit, so it
> took longer to get up to speed.
> My estimation is that I was down to 30-35% SOC, based on
> the numbers for the resting voltage and the approximately
> 1 Ah per mile (312V pack) of this truck.
>
> Note: this pack has 110Ah batteries, 1 hour rating is 80Ah
> so 65-70% of that is 52-56 Ah.
>
> Note2: I still have the idea that my battery wiring has more
> series resistance than the internal resistance of the
> batteries, which means that the 273V limit is NOT 10.5V at
> the battery, dependent on the current.
> I need to measure the difference as I suspect the wiring,
> connectors and contactor to add too many milliOhms, so the
> batteries actually need to supply more current than when
> the resistance is lower (more volts => more power =>
> shorter acceleration OR I can trade the higher volts for
> lower amps to get the same accel). I may also gain range by
> reducing this 'waste' and avoid problems with overheating
> cabling. (most is only 2 AWG)
> (My voltage/current measurement make me believe that the
> internal resistance as seen by the controller is almost
> 300 milliOhm while the batteries are specified at 4 mOhm,
> so the 26 in series should only contribute 104 milliOhm.
> Unless the time it takes to go from acceleration to braking
> and back to acceleration also allows the batteries to have
> internal changes in electrolyte (stratification problem in
> AGMs? Lee?)
> But since I see a discrepancy of some 196 milliOhms, I want
> to check the connections at the controller; the contactor;
> the wiring to the battery box and my own wiring inside the
> battery box, although I believe that should contribute less
> than 50 milliOhm according my own measurements while doing
> the installation of the batteries.
>
> One check point can be to bring one battery's actual
> voltage out and measure it with a DVM while doing a launch
> and see how far it drops.
> Then do a measurement of the voltage across the entire
> battery pack, then the voltage across the contactor and
> cabling....
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 4, 2006, at 4:14 AM, Myles Twete wrote:
Vicor 150:12v 100watt converters on Ebay right now...:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VI-251-CW-VICOR-INPUP-150-
OUTPUT12_W0QQitemZ7605525794QQ
categoryZ4663QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I tried matching the number on Vicor's web site, both the American
site and the European site, but could not find a match.
Calvin King,
'81 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Local classical music station KING FM just mentioned EVs in a 30 second
interlude. Mentioned that White-Lightening holds the world speed record for
EVs, quoting the speed. Also mentioned that the tzero will be the fastest
EV once it comes on the market with acceleration of 0-60 in 3.7sec and top
speed of (something). Then, he added that the sticker price will be $220K
and he'll have to wait for an electric Harley or something.
Peri Hartman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Wrote: <with much snippage>
""" I'd like to spend a minute conncerning Wayland ..... Just last week I got
an email asking me to see if John would sell a motor he had. When I asked John
he didn't even hesitate but stated tell 'em I'll give it to 'em......"""
Jim, could you ask John if he'll sell me his Siamese 8...?? lmao
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I first decided to do my conversion I was at a crossroads of sort.
I owned 2 old cars. I went to the toyota dealer and drove a prius, I
went to the honda dealer and was told I exceed the weight limit on an
insight and they won't warranty it (LOL) as they tried to sell me a
civic. But I then went to the parts department and picked 3 parts at
random, AC compressor, Power steering , and a computer. EVERY part over
$1400 I though about the payment for a 25K car and realised I could buy
the entire ev drive train in 2 years of payments and a battery a month
on the gasoline I would spend. I fixed my ole car so it could do the
long trips and decided to push forward. I decided early on the
batteries, went to the warehouse and lined it up(and got a dummy to size
my racks with), but obviously waited until I was ready to roll before I
picked them up.
ok, now I have driven 1 month to and from work, store and school. I
haven't bought gasoline since the 3rd week of febuary and I still have a
1/2 tank in the ole car. I am gonna have to try and remeber to drive it
once a month to keep it lubed up. I have saved $160 in gasoline by
spending $10 in electricity. I spent close to 8K to convert (zilla,9",25
orbitals PFC20 and regs in an 1987 300zx)
I always wanted a 300zx, and owning one as gas would cost too much. I
actually was asked by someone why I did that to a 300zx and I get to say
" well, if you are gonna do it, you might as well do it with
style....besides, i couldn't find a delorean"
The point for me is. convert something you want to drive. I wouldn't
drive a festiva reguardless of drivetrain, but the EV drivetrain can
cost the same wether it is in a 300zx, porsche, classic mustang.
Mistakes/observations
The 300zx is heavy but a lot was in that motor. still a 280Z or 240Z
would have been better.
Keep the regs dry!!!! I have lost 3
When you are done planning your battery boxes, do it again.
My Pickup would have been a better first conversion.
USE A SPEED SENSOR on motor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Motor options and my personal EVDL mission Statement
> Jim Wrote: <with much snippage>
>
> """ I'd like to spend a minute conncerning Wayland ..... Just last week I
got an email asking me to see if John would sell a motor he had. When I
asked John he didn't even hesitate but stated tell 'em I'll give it to
'em......"""
>
>
> Jim, could you ask John if he'll sell me his Siamese 8...?? lmao
>
> Bettya if you asked him nicely , Jim, he'd BUILD you a Siamese 8-9 or Woo
Hoo! A 11"Now a 11 would be a BIG ass motor, though!Go after the Top Fuel
guyz! I didn't say 13"!Is ya checkbook up to it?
My two armatures worth!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would something like this be useful,
for example, for building a Bad Boy charger?
(I was actually looking for a way to test
parts of the EV while tethered :-)
NTE Replacement Rectifiers
RECTIFIER,BRIDGE,NTE5344,SI 1000V,40A
Price @ 1+ $12.79
* NTE5344
* Non-std
* Bridge Rectifier
* PRV: 1000V
* AFC: 40A
Jameco P/N 259805
Mfg NTE ELECTRONICS
Mfg # NTE5344
RoHS? No
In Stock Yes
http://jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=259805
Interesting, the manufacturer is up the road from me....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James
First off how'd you like wrapping that coil in the fusa fab?? Kind of like
wrapping with a snake skin huh?? Did you happen to use some nomex under the
Fusa-Fab? Looks like I can see some white along with some goo seepage. If you
have room you could apply another layer to add to the insulation and hide any
un-wanted see through goo. BTW how'd you bake it? Having never seen it let
alone used it before it looks like you did a good job 8^ )
I saw you got your larger brush jumpers made up and I wanted to say that
Wayland would be proud of the size of your straps, LMAO! Moving on to your
terminal layout. Very nicely done with the room you had to work with but it
looks like you'll be pretty tight getting the coils to connect. Are you
planning on using cable to attach to the terminals?
Anyways pretty fun to see!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi all
Well, the slow progress of my motor overhaul has reached another step,
finished tonight the new terminals for the fields and armature connections.
Pics at:
http://jcmassey.gallery.netspace.net.au/Daihatsu-pics-01?page=3 The
terminals are made from brass, 12mm diameter through the insulator, then
3/8 whitworth (like UNC) stud with a 5/8AF nut to give plenty of
cross-section. Final assembly will probably involve a fair bit of epoxy,
will make it a 'pain' to change anything later, but should make for low
leakage.
The six terminals are for series/parallel switching of the fields. I may
find that they can just be left in series or parallel, (use buss bars), but
to start with I'll use a switch on the 'dash' to select using some
contactors that'll be on the side of the motor.
I'm going to get the motor tube sandblasted in the next few days and then
away to a different motor shop to the one that "overhauled" my motor when I
first got it. I'm pretty sure that they put the motor tube with the fields
in it into their oven and forgot about it and destroyed the insulation -
someone has, but the armature is fine. The new windings will probably be
able to be done with greater cross-section area wire, as the old windings
had some kind of paper between each turn. I'll get the number of turns
dropped a little, too - probably 20 turns instead of 24 turns.
Apart from that, I've been working on the Zilla mounting, and the two
current shunts for motor and battery current. The Zilla will be in a steel
enclosure along with the two shunts and the circuit breaker, with a perspex
lid. No pics yet, though, apart from one on the first page of my album
showing the breaker after I'd cut it down from a 3-pole to 1-pole.
As always, comments welcome.
Regards
James
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: WAS: Speaking of Ignoring Ultra Cap
> Hey Victor
>
> I was there and the smoke coming off the burnout was actually really
impressive. I believe I have a copy of the video I captured if you'd like.
Anyways I remmeber the cap burnout and tell people all about it all the time
8^ )
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
So was I, camera rolling. I got J. Wayland's remarks, like "Wow! This is
with NO batteries, just Capaciters" or something to that effect. Was hoping
Victor was gunna chargeitup and actually RUN down the track! But as Victor
has commented before, Drag Racing really isn't his thing.He may have run out
of 'Charge" at the end of the trak, but we coulda retreaved him, with a
clothline<g>!
My Two farads worth.
Bob
> Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I did this on the track in Woodburn 2005. Not dragged (not knowing
> if I'd have energy left by the time I'd done so I can return to the
> pits), but burn-out on the ultracaps alone - had no battery at all.
> I wish I did more smoke: after I was done for 20 sec or so,
> there was 2/3 of the energy left in the caps pack, just the car
> was dragging along the strip too far even though rear wheels
> were blocked by a parking brake.
>
Ha Ha We took care of THAT issue at Vancouver, when Madman chained the
Goldie to a Jersey Barrier section. It wasn't gunna move!! Some bystanders
remarked that they didn't think that little car could move that massive
chunk of concrete!Great Smoke Show, though!Went through and destroyed the
Right front tire!
> Sorry, I think I've lost 2 videos of this, but someone
> taped during event may have it recorded.
I'll hafta digitup.
>
> If you care to see, the 16.7F 420V caps pack (cap box tilt up):
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/cap_raised.jpg
> Close up:
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/cap_corn.jpg
>
> But, as far as stiffening Hawkers, it won't (easily) work -
> they are about as stiff as ultracaps. The purpose
> of caps is different - to provide short bursts of
> power, and Hawkers as far as I know excel in doing just that.
> As soon as you drain the caps a bit, the Hawkers will do
> all the work, so unless you track caps' voltage with DC-DC
> converter and keep it's output above battery voltage,
> ultracaps in parallel with stiff battery are of no benefit.
> Maybe the batts and caps could give ya Waylandesque acceleration, hooked
up togeter, and the Batts. would get you home, dignity intact! Really, you
could blast up hills NOT in the truck lane!
>> Joel Hacker wrote:
> > Along this line of thought...wonder how long it will
> > be before Wayland and Matt could run 1/4 mile runs off
> > of capacitor only dumps to their motors, OR
> >
> > at least using ultracaps to stiffen their Hawkers so
> > that they didn't drop down so far at 2000 Amps???
> >
> > 10-20-30 years???
Hell, Next month!? Why wait?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good to hear! The land speed info is old, though. Buckeye Bullet
holds the record now at 315 mph.
--- Peri Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Local classical music station KING FM just mentioned EVs in a 30
> second
> interlude. Mentioned that White-Lightening holds the world speed
> record for
> EVs, quoting the speed. Also mentioned that the tzero will be the
> fastest
> EV once it comes on the market with acceleration of 0-60 in 3.7sec
> and top
> speed of (something). Then, he added that the sticker price will
> be $220K
> and he'll have to wait for an electric Harley or something.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Darin
First the pump motor brushes look new and what I can see of the comm looks
great! I've never seen the Drive Motor but the brushes look like they'll need
replacing. from what I can see of the brush length it appears to be getting
close to the spring loosing tension when it bottoms against the holder on the
drive motor.
Looking at the pics I noticed that to advance those pump motors you will have
to lengthen the field lead where it comes into the "F" terminal on the CE Plate
in addition to the lead I discribed in the first email. Anyways they look
pretty yummy. I enjoyed this alot and found it funny as I had just been asking
an old mentor of mine if he had any of these motors as I think they will be
awesome for what "I'd" call a lower volt conversion. Keep me posted as you
move along. Be fun to get some data on those pump motors.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric.
Darin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim Husted wrote:
> If you pull your cover bands I might be able to see how she looks for you.
> I haven't seen one of those in like 17-18 years, hehe. Pretty cool
> stuff. Truly fun motors
Hey Jim and all-
I pulled the covers on the drive & pump motors and snapped a few more
pics. They're added at the bottom of the same page with the other photos:
http://www.metrompg.com/offsite/baker-motors.html
I'm not sure they show much detail, but I suspect you can identify
plenty of "detail" with a trained eye even in a bad photo.
The only tag i found on the drive motor is a service tag, I think. I
wrote down a few other numbers that are stamped into it, which I've also
listed on that page.
> don't you ever just scrap those out or I'll have to come out and ...
That's a promise! (they were too much work to obtain to just scrap
'em!) It's as much fun reading your reaction to these things as it is
learning about what they are.
thanks -
Darin
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like the way you are thinking! Here are some
devil-is-in-the-details points:
It's probably better to start with a car more designed for those
speeds and torques. Is the Aveo aerodynamically stable at 150 mph?
Can you give it 5 times the torque without wrinkling the front sheet
metal? How would you turn if the axles are locked solid to the front
motor?
A 9 second car is bleeping fast! You might be amazed how happy you'd
be with a 12 or 13 second car. A 12 second car can likely spin its
wheels at freeway speeds (can't believe I'm about to say this) do you
really need more than that?
Copying what John Wayland's White Zombie or Wilde Evolution's Maniac
Mazda would be a good start on an affordable yet fast electric car.
To go faster would require severe streetability compromises or $50k
or $100k of lithium batteries.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> A 2006 Chevy Aveo for ~$9,000 brand new and a 13" WarP for ~$4400
> with
> a shaft sticking out both ends directly connected to stout
> aftermarket
> shafts that can "take it". Add in a ~$4800 Zilla and ~348+ volts
> of
> "something".
>
> Now a stock Suzuki Hayabusa runs high 9's stock in the 1/4. I'd
> better be able to beat those with this Aveo running full slicks for
> this type of money.
>
> Think it will run "the number"? What would this setup run in the
> 1/4
> mile with slicks and no parts breakage(ever)?
>
> And if it won't, then what setup is needed to run "the number"?
>
> Apparently, there is an electric rail car that can run 8's at a
> good
> clip(mph). How much does it weigh and how can we replicate this on
> the street?
>
> For the amount of money it's going to cost me to build an electric
> vehicle; I want it to be really, really fast for that type of
> money.
> And I want to be able to cruise it on the street(cause that is
> where
> all the fun is at!). Plus take it to the track to get some
> official
> numbers on this street beast and to the dyno to get some more hard
> numbers on paper for it..
> ...
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Rothenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:15 AM
Subject: bridge rectifier
>
> Would something like this be useful,
> for example, for building a Bad Boy charger?
> Hi Seth an' EVerybody;
You bet! I have been using those for Bad Boys for years!They come in
30 amp flavers, PIV 200-300-400- too. Had used them, but they blow out at
even a HINT of a short!. Not a real full blown " Short Circus", with clouds
of smoke, just a sorta "Zap" thing and they are a dead short! I loaded up at
FRY'S in Ca when I was out there. I just found a souce here in CT, up on the
Berlin Turnpike shopping maul strip! This is something Radio Crap won't
have!
> (I was actually looking for a way to test
> parts of the EV while tethered :-)
>
>
> NTE Replacement Rectifiers
>
> RECTIFIER,BRIDGE,NTE5344,SI 1000V,40A
>
> Price @ 1+ $12.79
> * NTE5344
> * Non-std
> * Bridge Rectifier
> * PRV: 1000V
> * AFC: 40A
>
> Jameco P/N 259805
> Mfg NTE ELECTRONICS
> Mfg # NTE5344
> RoHS? No
> In Stock Yes
> When the PIV is higher the PRICE is, too. my 30 amp 400 volt guyz were
about 6 bux.But don't forget to mount it on a decent heat sink! They get hot
as hell, without any heat transfer!Well, IF you're pushing them toward their
rated capacity.
>
>
http://jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=259805
>
> Interesting, the manufacturer is up the road from me....
>
> WHAT are ya gunna test while tethered? Try the motor with a decent set of
start jumpers.? NOT those worthless jumpers ya get at Wall*Mart or Pep
Boys!! The "You get what you PAY for" never held more true! How they can in
any consience, sell no 10 wire as starting jumpers, Starting a dead ICE
often goes to EV like amps. The no. 10 "Jumper's" Turn to smoke in seconds!
Nowadaze you have to MAKE your own, or go to tag sales and find an OLD set,
with 4 or 6 wire, being sold, when folks are cleaning out a garage!
So go shopping for a set of REAL jumpers, say , 4's or 6's cable, wire
gage, I mean.Then , with maybe 24 volts worth of batteries, you can put the
car in neutral, this is IMPORTANT, BEFORE comnnecting the batteries!!Motor
revs up, ya put the clutch in and go for first or second, let the clutch out
and you are off! Electrically! Woo, HOO! you get your first EV grin! It
MOVES!!!! THEN ya think of a controller. Much more elegent than a allagater
clamp. My first Rabbit runs were using the chassis as part of the circuit,
clamp the jumper to the pass side seat bracket. The arc marks don't EVen
show under there<g>!Power lines out the open pass side window! EVerybody at
the picnik went for a ride! Went up to about 36 volts this way! Scarry,
yeah! But it WORKED! Shifter, clutch, all that sorta hardware, which is the
most critical part of an EV anyhow.Seth, your hard part of the EV is done
for ya there, you should be able to creep around yur block on jumper
cables.The Saturn should glide along in Kostov silence.Probably, I didn't
look, that the motor is hooked up with the armature and field , ready to run
in the right direction/ 5 speeds in reverse would be silly, if not. But a
simple reconnect would set ya going in the right rotation.
My two connection's worth.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Husted wrote:
I've never seen the Drive Motor but the brushes look like they'll need
> replacing. From what I can see of the brush length it appears to be
> getting close to the spring loosing tension when it bottoms against
> the holder on the drive motor.
thanks for pointing that out. i measured about 3/8 inch of brush
"travel" left before those springs will touch the holder.
Normally, how far up would a new set of brushes sit, and how long would
they last? I suppose there's no simple answer and it all depends on the
motor & the brushes and the application. This is actually the first
time I've had a peek inside "big" electric motors, myself.
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Darin
I'd say the drive motor's about 50% worn. As memory serve's me they'll stick
above the the holders by about a 1/4". Of course that depends on how much the
comm has been turned down! Have you ohm'd the motors yet hows the insulation?
Do you get any continuity between the frame and the terminal??
Being old forlift motors they get installed into lifts with leaking hydrolic
cylinders and such.
Something to check as you move along.
Cya
Jim Husted
Darin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim Husted wrote:
> I've never seen the Drive Motor but the brushes look like they'll need
> replacing. From what I can see of the brush length it appears to be
> getting close to the spring loosing tension when it bottoms against
> the holder on the drive motor.
thanks for pointing that out. i measured about 3/8 inch of brush
"travel" left before those springs will touch the holder.
Normally, how far up would a new set of brushes sit, and how long would
they last? I suppose there's no simple answer and it all depends on the
motor & the brushes and the application. This is actually the first
time I've had a peek inside "big" electric motors, myself.
Darin
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:25 PM 4/3/2006, you wrote:
Just looking for advice on what is the best use of an aircraft
generator a friend has and if it would be good to use as motor. It
is a GE 6inch type 2CM63C6, it has a Bauer PN E-162-1 on the tag,
30VDC 200amp. I figure it is good for one or more of the following:
1 - Generator hooked up to an ICE or as a regen. 2 - motor for a
"light" vehicle 1000 to 2000lb (I know, no high perfomance here). 3 - Tie a 1"
nylon rope to it and use it to stop a boat.
thanks,
Jimmy
Door #3.
Or contact the "other" EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) and
see if they need it for one of their restorations.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> A leaky battery as in a flooded battery with wet exterior? Any other
> way a battery, sealed or not, would be leaky?
Flooded batteries always "leak" because they have an open vent. They gas
during charging, so a film of electrolyte always collects.
Sealed batteries aren't supposed to leak, but many do! Look at any old
sealed battery, and you will see the evidence. It might be from a
manufacturing defect, or it was overcharged and so vented at some point,
or the case cracked from being dropped or swelling with age, or a
terminal was overtightened and broke the seal.
> Could inductance be a source of leakage currents? That is, flow thru
> one wire induces flow thru another wire that would otherwise not have
> any current flowing thru it?
Inductance and capacitance effects can cause AC leakage currents, but
not DC. AC leakage is usually detected by the simpler "home type"
AC-only GFCIs.
> Are all the causes of leakage currents known and understood (by
> someone or collectively)?
Yes, more or less. But that's like understanding "all the causes of
leaks" in plumbing. You know there can be bad joints, cracked pipes,
leaky faucet washers, etc. But finding them, preventing them, and fixing
them is still problematic. The same for electrical leakage. It's not
hard to detect that there is a leak, but FINDING and FIXING it can
sometimes be difficult.
PS: The simplest way to see if you have any DC leakage current in your
EV is:
1. Set your multimeter on DC milliamps.
2. Connect one end of a 10k ohm resistor to its + lead.
3. Connect the - lead to chassis.
4. Connect the free end of the resistor to battery pack +,
and note the current.
5. Now connect the free end of the resistor to the battery pack -,
and note the current.
Ideally, both currents should read zero DC leakage current. In practice,
there will be some small current, positive or negative, at each point.
If it's less than 1 milliamp, you have some leakage path, but it's low
enough to ignore.
But if it's more than 5 milliamps, you have a problem! There is enough
leakage to develop 5 milliamps across a 10k resistor, which means 50
volts. That's enough to give you a nasty shock. And, it will probably
get worse.
Besides the shock hazard, the leakage can run down your batteries, cause
severe corrosion along the path, cause any small parts in the path to
get hot or fail, or even start a fire if an arc ever forms along it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
