EV Digest 5357
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Shunt vs. Series wound DC motor
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Red Fiero was Re: Orb Carnage....
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Monster Garage
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Fwd: Monster Garage
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Monster Garage
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Hybridize-yourself?
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: AC vs DC; Newbie Question
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
by Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 8" ADC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: a few newby questions
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I just browsed the e-volks.com website.
Interesting to say the least. They claim to build EV conversions of Geo's,
Previas and VW's for $2-3k.
(Batteries not included)
That's not the issue. The website states that they use shunt-wound DC motors
as a safety feature because they cannot overspeed. That's all well and good
but I thought shunt-wound motors were designed more for single-speed
operation (such as driving a pump) and weren't well suited for EV traction
motors because when we drive, we rarely maintain the same speed for long
especially in traffic which is why series wound motors are the best choice
(among DC motors).
I ask the question to firm up my general EV knowlege. What say you?
Rich A.
Maryland
'81 Comuta Van
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:16 AM
Subject: Red Fiero was Re: Orb Carnage....
> > Man there are some good shot of Goldie being very bad on the MG Show...
I
> > need to yard the dead lead out of her and get some fresh Smoke....
> Hi All;
That Goldie show looks like a Vancouver? Right? Got a good smoke show
there, the Jersey Barrier didn't move an inch! That he was chained to.Did
yafix the right side marker lite wire thrashed to death by the
desindegrating tire<g>!?
Seeya at Joliet!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Shawn,
The first thing to do, is the math.
I derived a formula, which I change the tire diameter to the tire
circumference, because the rolling circumference is more accurate than using
the diameter.
To measure the rolling circumference, place a mark on the tire and floor and
rotate the tire one turn.
The formula:
MPH = (RPM x TC)/(Ratio x 1056)
RPM - Motor RPM
TC - Tire Circumference
Ratio - Overall Gear Ratio
1056 - Constant (from (5280)/(60 x 12) )
The formula converted:
RPM = (MPH x Ratio x 1056)/TC
RATIO = (RPM x TC)/(MPH x 1056)
TC = (MPH x Ratio x 1056)/RPM
For 200 MPH the overall gear ratio would have to be with a motor at 10000
RPM with a 90 inch circumference tire.
RATIO = (10000 x 90)/(200 x 1056) = 4.26:1
At 9000 RPM it is a 3.83:1 ratio
At 8000 RPM it is a 3.40:1 ratio
As the ratio is decrease, you will need more power to attain the speed.
Knowns:
It is known that by experiment, that for a overall gear ratio of 4:1, that
it takes 600 watts to move 100 lbs of weight at 50 mph using a front profile
of a VW Bug.
Therefore for a double in weight increase to 200 lbs, it doubles the power
needed to 1200 watts.
Next, you will have to determine the square foot front profile of your car
and calculated the air drag. A small model of the car can be used and put
in a wind tunnel. We used a large farm tractor tire with a fan in it.
Placing the model inside measure the air flow difference in front and rear
of the model.
To measure the air resistance in the wind tunnel, use a wing type foil in
front of the model and another in the rear that can pivot. A extension rods
ran outside with a pointer to a protractor. The difference between the
front and rear air flow was than calculated. This is how we done it back in
the 40's. Today, there should be a computer program to do this.
As the speed doubles, its takes four times the power. For example:
If a object is at 10 mph and the energy is 100 units, than at 20 mph, it
will take 400 units of power.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:42 AM
Subject: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
> I need some input from the experts out there. What are the absolute
> minimums it will take in the form of batteries, motors, controllers,
> chargers, (all the essential EV stuff), to get a 3-4 year old Nextel
> cup car chassis with all required onboard equipment to a peak speed of
> 200 + MPH and an average of 190 MPH for one lap at Daytona? I know it
> can be done but what is the best way?
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:14 AM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
<< snip >>
As the ratio is decrease, you will need more power to attain the speed.
<< snip >>
Roland
Wrong, it will take more motor torque but all else being equal the power
remains the same.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How come my watt/hr indicators show that I need more wattage with a 5.57:1
overall ratio than if I am at a 19.5:1 ratio?
If I am at 50 mph, the battery amperes is at 180 amps and at 25 mph its at
40 amps.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
> At 09:14 AM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
> ><< snip >>
> >As the ratio is decrease, you will need more power to attain the speed.
> >
> ><< snip >>
> >Roland
>
> Wrong, it will take more motor torque but all else being equal the power
> remains the same.
>
>
> __________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I must say that the reason we didn't win on the track was lack of
execution on our behalf.
We certainly had the tools for a very low 13 second car. Our setup
was wrong, the tire pressure too high, the breaker box too small, The
shifter incorrectly adjusted (It popped out on one run), etc...,
etc... These were all our decisions. While it is true we were shorted
on work time we SHOULD have still left the hemi in the dust. We were
not told to lose at any time. Nobody was more disappointed then I
that we didn't win but such is drag racing. We live to fight another
day. Thanks for the good word on our behalf.
I don't think any of the drag cars built on MG "won" their first races,
so I don't think the EVwas that big a let down. Even when they built
out-of-box dragsters like the hotdog cart project, it still did less
than expected performance. In general I think the show's editing was
reasonably positive....
I think most serious racers/fans know that there will always be some
serious tweaking/tuning required on a new chassis before it really
begins to turn heads.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:22 AM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
How come my watt/hr indicators show that I need more wattage with a 5.57:1
overall ratio than if I am at a 19.5:1 ratio?
I guess I should have said the efficiency of everything being the same the
power remains the same.
You are slowing the motor down by a factor of ~3.5 so the motor torque
needs to increase by 3.5 times. That big of a change is likely pushing the
motor's efficiency down, could be a lot depending on were you are on the
curve at the 19.5 ratio. If you are measuring the watts at the battery you
also need to look at the efficiency of the batteries, controller and the
wiring.
If I am at 50 mph, the battery amperes is at 180 amps and at 25 mph its at
40 amps.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
> At 09:14 AM 4/12/2006, you wrote:
> ><< snip >>
> >As the ratio is decrease, you will need more power to attain the speed.
> >
> ><< snip >>
> >Roland
>
> Wrong, it will take more motor torque but all else being equal the power
> remains the same.
>
>
> __________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
>
>
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Zick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Shawn Lawless' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:47:31 -0500
Subject: Fw: Monster Garage
Note: forwarded message attached.
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
----- Message from J Z <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 12 Apr 2006
05:51:28
-0700 (PDT) -----
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Monster Garage
Hello Everyone,
This is my first time posting here on the list, but I have been
following
the forum since January (when I first met Shawn and Rich). I'd like to
first start off by saying it's a great site and forum and am quite
impressed with some of the conversations that go on here. I would also
like to take the opportunity to thank Shawn, Rich, Ron, and Danny for
all
the work they did during the build. There is NO WAY the build would
have
been a success without any one of them. Everyone had a key part to
complete in order to get the car to move. Great job everyone!!!!!! A
lot
of skill and hard work...and some just dumb luck, made it a great show.
Now, let me give you the feedback from a lot of Milwaukee employees.
There
was basically two comments...1) Everyone that I talked to was very very
surprised that a EV could go that fast!! 2) They gained a huge respect
for
the hazards involved and the care and time needed to build such an
electric
monster.
Now, this is from people that have NO exposure to Ev's. Great PR for
the
EV industry.
Ryan, to answer your questions below, cause I'm sure Shawn and Rich's
fingers are getting tired:
1) The challenge came up unexpectedly (due to the car making an
appearance
at the Builders Show in Orlando) and it was hard enough to get the team
back together in time to charge and reload the batteries. Plus West
Coast
still had to paint the dam thing.
2) The parking lot "parading" actually turned out better then I thought
it
would. At that point, do to a wiring issue, we were running only half
power. Which we were not too happy with but it turned out to be a good
thing because the tires were rubbing on the body. If we would have
been at
full power, I'm sure the tires would have blown. We got lucky on that
one...right guys!!!
3) The tires...we didn't have a say in. That was what Jesse brought
us so
that is what we put on the car. The tires were the least of our
worries at
that point.
4) As for the car as it stands today, it draws a very good crowd where
ever it goes. Everyone is impressed that it went so fast and can't
believe
it is powered by tool batteries. It is one of the most successful brand
events Milwaukee has done. So far the car has not run since the last
event...butttttttt...you never know...there still might be a few more
races
in the beast...right Shawn!!
Right now I can't seem to get the car out of Marketing's hands cause I
know
I would really like to see it go 100mph. All the batteries and chargers
are still in my office so the fuel is ready!!!
Ok....sorry so long winded. I'll stop talking now.
Jon "Jagarbomber" Zick
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I liked the show and was glad to see it and that the car was
completed. I've seen every Monster Garage episode ever made, and I
was completely unaware of all the goading that apparently went on with
the film crew, etc. Maybe since this was the last episode(so I've
heard..), they went all out and didn't hold back(nothing to lose?)?
Even though "hindsight is always 20/20", just for future reference in
case something similar ever arises:
What was the situation where they wouldn't let you take the car to the
track in the days or weeks before the race to dial it in?
It would have been nice if the power would have been cranked up so
when Jesse was parading around the parking lot on the first drive, he
could have been doing burnouts and donuts and really been able to show
what electrics can do..
Also it would have been nice if some real tires, or at least some
decent back tires could have been used so that car would have ran at
least consistent 13's and beat that Mopar every time... Amazing it
did run that 14.5 after all those previous runs it had been through
though! Those batteries had a lot more in them then I thought they
would have. (now if we could buy those batteries at a fair price...)
Considering the weight of that car, and all the wheel spin(time
wasted) and STILL running a 14.5(remember all the previous runs on
that charge), that car had a LOT more potential. It would be nice if
Milwaukee would dial it in and get some really nice times from it.
The good news is, there are some really serious street beasts in the
works, and a certain electric rail car is about to set some more
records...
A new generation of high performance electrics.. not to mention the
potential new age of batteries on the verge of being a reality. The
future of EV's is bright. Remember this Jesse, the business you own
and run revolves around the availability of gasoline. How many
Choppers will you sell if there is no gasoline? When you get bored,
consider building an electric Chopper with the uncertain and
unguaranteed future in mind..
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Was Ron Jenkins not consulted for the chassis setup? Jesse cut Ron off
in mid sentence when he was describing how to box the chassis
components in. I think he overloaded Jesses's brain.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I must say that the reason we didn't win on the track was lack of
> execution on our behalf.
> We certainly had the tools for a very low 13 second car. Our setup was
> wrong, the tire pressure too high, the breaker box too small, The
> shifter incorrectly adjusted (It popped out on one run), etc..., etc...
> These were all our decisions. While it is true we were shorted on work
> time we SHOULD have still left the hemi in the dust. We were not told
> to lose at any time. Nobody was more disappointed then I that we
> didn't win but such is drag racing. We live to fight another day.
> Thanks for the good word on our behalf.
>
> Shawn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:00:03 -0500 (CDT)
> Subject: Re: Monster Garage
>
> I don't know if we are talking about the same show here. The one I saw
> was
> biased towards ICE dragsters, told the viewers how dangerous electric
> cars
> are, spent $80,000 in 'freebies' and still couldn't win on the track.
>
> While most of you are specialized in some sort of engineering, I am a PR
> and marketing person by trade. And from an 'ev' public relations
> perspective, the show wasn't good at all. I don't blame Rich or Shawn
> (they tried their best) but it seems to me they have been railroaded.
>
> I did a quick (not representative) panel among friends I asked to watch
> the show (about 40) that are not involved with (but are interested in)
> electric vehicles. Unfortunately, approx. 70% came back with a
> definitely
> more negative opinion about EVs.
>
> If interested, I can post my list of questions about EVs and the answers
> before and after the show.
>
> It was nice though, to have a face for some of the people that have
> contributed so much for the EV community.
>
> Thanks Rich and Shawn.
>
> Michaela
>
>
>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
> * This post contains a forbidden message format *
> * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
> * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
> * If your postings display this message your mail program *
> * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Hartley wrote:
9:09 P.M.
John,
I think you are forgetting that the Hondas also need a transmission
after the engine and IMA. For the Civic this is a CVT. Correct me if
I am wrong, but usually, a CVT has a belt and variable pulleys or some
similar arrangement to vary the ratio, and they have been difficult to
make as long-lasting as a conventional automatic transmission, let
alone a manual... <snip>
The Honda Civic HX (non-hybrid) with their CVT (aka "Honda Multimatic")
has been sold in the US since 1996... no reliability issues have
appeared so far.
http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclopedia/encvt.html
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So why did the Milwakee guy spew on about not in our lifetime
regarding EV's? Sorry I cannot remember his name.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Zick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 'Shawn Lawless' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:47:31 -0500
> Subject: Fw: Monster Garage
>
>
>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
> Messenger with Voice.
> ----- Message from J Z <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 12 Apr 2006
> 05:51:28
> -0700 (PDT) -----
>
>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Monster Garage
>
>
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
> This is my first time posting here on the list, but I have been
> following
> the forum since January (when I first met Shawn and Rich). I'd like to
> first start off by saying it's a great site and forum and am quite
> impressed with some of the conversations that go on here. I would also
> like to take the opportunity to thank Shawn, Rich, Ron, and Danny for
> all
> the work they did during the build. There is NO WAY the build would
> have
> been a success without any one of them. Everyone had a key part to
> complete in order to get the car to move. Great job everyone!!!!!! A
> lot
> of skill and hard work...and some just dumb luck, made it a great show.
>
> Now, let me give you the feedback from a lot of Milwaukee employees.
> There
> was basically two comments...1) Everyone that I talked to was very very
> surprised that a EV could go that fast!! 2) They gained a huge respect
> for
> the hazards involved and the care and time needed to build such an
> electric
> monster.
> Now, this is from people that have NO exposure to Ev's. Great PR for
> the
> EV industry.
>
> Ryan, to answer your questions below, cause I'm sure Shawn and Rich's
> fingers are getting tired:
> 1) The challenge came up unexpectedly (due to the car making an
> appearance
> at the Builders Show in Orlando) and it was hard enough to get the team
> back together in time to charge and reload the batteries. Plus West
> Coast
> still had to paint the dam thing.
> 2) The parking lot "parading" actually turned out better then I thought
> it
> would. At that point, do to a wiring issue, we were running only half
> power. Which we were not too happy with but it turned out to be a good
> thing because the tires were rubbing on the body. If we would have
> been at
> full power, I'm sure the tires would have blown. We got lucky on that
> one...right guys!!!
> 3) The tires...we didn't have a say in. That was what Jesse brought
> us so
> that is what we put on the car. The tires were the least of our
> worries at
> that point.
> 4) As for the car as it stands today, it draws a very good crowd where
> ever it goes. Everyone is impressed that it went so fast and can't
> believe
> it is powered by tool batteries. It is one of the most successful brand
> events Milwaukee has done. So far the car has not run since the last
> event...butttttttt...you never know...there still might be a few more
> races
> in the beast...right Shawn!!
> Right now I can't seem to get the car out of Marketing's hands cause I
> know
> I would really like to see it go 100mph. All the batteries and chargers
> are still in my office so the fuel is ready!!!
>
> Ok....sorry so long winded. I'll stop talking now.
> Jon "Jagarbomber" Zick
>
>
>
> Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I liked the show and was glad to see it and that the car was
> completed. I've seen every Monster Garage episode ever made, and I
> was completely unaware of all the goading that apparently went on with
> the film crew, etc. Maybe since this was the last episode(so I've
> heard..), they went all out and didn't hold back(nothing to lose?)?
>
> Even though "hindsight is always 20/20", just for future reference in
> case something similar ever arises:
>
> What was the situation where they wouldn't let you take the car to the
> track in the days or weeks before the race to dial it in?
>
> It would have been nice if the power would have been cranked up so
> when Jesse was parading around the parking lot on the first drive, he
> could have been doing burnouts and donuts and really been able to show
> what electrics can do..
>
> Also it would have been nice if some real tires, or at least some
> decent back tires could have been used so that car would have ran at
> least consistent 13's and beat that Mopar every time... Amazing it
> did run that 14.5 after all those previous runs it had been through
> though! Those batteries had a lot more in them then I thought they
> would have. (now if we could buy those batteries at a fair price...)
> Considering the weight of that car, and all the wheel spin(time
> wasted) and STILL running a 14.5(remember all the previous runs on
> that charge), that car had a LOT more potential. It would be nice if
> Milwaukee would dial it in and get some really nice times from it.
>
> The good news is, there are some really serious street beasts in the
> works, and a certain electric rail car is about to set some more
> records...
>
> A new generation of high performance electrics.. not to mention the
> potential new age of batteries on the verge of being a reality. The
> future of EV's is bright. Remember this Jesse, the business you own
> and run revolves around the availability of gasoline. How many
> Choppers will you sell if there is no gasoline? When you get bored,
> consider building an electric Chopper with the uncertain and
> unguaranteed future in mind..
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is many people that have a bias against electric cars, because if they
are so far removed from them, and the only experience they have is electric
golf carts and fork lifts.
I just got done talking to a car guy at the café I go everyday. He has a
whole building full of custom classic cars in mint condition. He owns his
own custom car shop. He just got done buying a new giant pickup to replace
his 2005 pickup, which he paid about $60,000.00 for. Does this about every
one to two years.
We was talking about the MG show, and he said, there would never be any EVs
in this country, Montana, because they do not have the power, range, speed.
Cannot drive it in the rain, snow or its too cold. Takes too long to charge
and must charge it every day.
So, he ask me what kind of vehicle I drive, I said a electric car. He then
look out the window, looking for a small baby buggies type of car. I said
its that one, the 1977 El Camino that has been customize by EFP and EV
Systems.
His eyes pop out his head, hit the window and snap back in, well it seems
like it.
We than went out side to look at it. I said, I drive this EV everyday even
at 33 F below. Had to jumper a lot of ICE that did not start. Can drive
through a foot of snow with no problem. Takes only 20 minutes to charge the
batteries, and can drive just over 100 miles city driving. In many cases, I
need only to charge the batteries every four days, and water the batteries
with $0.59 gallon of distill water a month as compare to you using over
$50.00 a month.
So this is what a demonstration EV is all about. I take my EV to car shows,
schools and technical schools.
Our north middle school 8 grade students, won the local science event and
they will be going to the national's which is sponsor by DOE. They built a
AFC fuel cell that ran a electric remote control model car for there
project.
The next challenge is to have a group to put together a EV that will be able
to drive across the country in three days or less. For 3000 miles. This
was done back in 1975 with my car, call Transformer I which ran over 1000
miles in 24 hours, so this should be possible with today's technology.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
> So why did the Milwakee guy spew on about not in our lifetime
> regarding EV's? Sorry I cannot remember his name.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jonathan Zick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 'Shawn Lawless' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:47:31 -0500
> > Subject: Fw: Monster Garage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Note: forwarded message attached.
> >
> >
> > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
> > Messenger with Voice.
> > ----- Message from J Z <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 12 Apr 2006
> > 05:51:28
> > -0700 (PDT) -----
> >
>
> >
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Subject: Re: Monster Garage
>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> > This is my first time posting here on the list, but I have been
> > following
> > the forum since January (when I first met Shawn and Rich). I'd like to
> > first start off by saying it's a great site and forum and am quite
> > impressed with some of the conversations that go on here. I would also
> > like to take the opportunity to thank Shawn, Rich, Ron, and Danny for
> > all
> > the work they did during the build. There is NO WAY the build would
> > have
> > been a success without any one of them. Everyone had a key part to
> > complete in order to get the car to move. Great job everyone!!!!!! A
> > lot
> > of skill and hard work...and some just dumb luck, made it a great show.
> >
> > Now, let me give you the feedback from a lot of Milwaukee employees.
> > There
> > was basically two comments...1) Everyone that I talked to was very very
> > surprised that a EV could go that fast!! 2) They gained a huge respect
> > for
> > the hazards involved and the care and time needed to build such an
> > electric
> > monster.
> > Now, this is from people that have NO exposure to Ev's. Great PR for
> > the
> > EV industry.
> >
> > Ryan, to answer your questions below, cause I'm sure Shawn and Rich's
> > fingers are getting tired:
> > 1) The challenge came up unexpectedly (due to the car making an
> > appearance
> > at the Builders Show in Orlando) and it was hard enough to get the team
> > back together in time to charge and reload the batteries. Plus West
> > Coast
> > still had to paint the dam thing.
> > 2) The parking lot "parading" actually turned out better then I thought
> > it
> > would. At that point, do to a wiring issue, we were running only half
> > power. Which we were not too happy with but it turned out to be a good
> > thing because the tires were rubbing on the body. If we would have
> > been at
> > full power, I'm sure the tires would have blown. We got lucky on that
> > one...right guys!!!
> > 3) The tires...we didn't have a say in. That was what Jesse brought
> > us so
> > that is what we put on the car. The tires were the least of our
> > worries at
> > that point.
> > 4) As for the car as it stands today, it draws a very good crowd where
> > ever it goes. Everyone is impressed that it went so fast and can't
> > believe
> > it is powered by tool batteries. It is one of the most successful brand
> > events Milwaukee has done. So far the car has not run since the last
> > event...butttttttt...you never know...there still might be a few more
> > races
> > in the beast...right Shawn!!
> > Right now I can't seem to get the car out of Marketing's hands cause I
> > know
> > I would really like to see it go 100mph. All the batteries and chargers
> > are still in my office so the fuel is ready!!!
> >
> > Ok....sorry so long winded. I'll stop talking now.
> > Jon "Jagarbomber" Zick
> >
> >
> >
> > Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I liked the show and was glad to see it and that the car was
> > completed. I've seen every Monster Garage episode ever made, and I
> > was completely unaware of all the goading that apparently went on with
> > the film crew, etc. Maybe since this was the last episode(so I've
> > heard..), they went all out and didn't hold back(nothing to lose?)?
> >
> > Even though "hindsight is always 20/20", just for future reference in
> > case something similar ever arises:
> >
> > What was the situation where they wouldn't let you take the car to the
> > track in the days or weeks before the race to dial it in?
> >
> > It would have been nice if the power would have been cranked up so
> > when Jesse was parading around the parking lot on the first drive, he
> > could have been doing burnouts and donuts and really been able to show
> > what electrics can do..
> >
> > Also it would have been nice if some real tires, or at least some
> > decent back tires could have been used so that car would have ran at
> > least consistent 13's and beat that Mopar every time... Amazing it
> > did run that 14.5 after all those previous runs it had been through
> > though! Those batteries had a lot more in them then I thought they
> > would have. (now if we could buy those batteries at a fair price...)
> > Considering the weight of that car, and all the wheel spin(time
> > wasted) and STILL running a 14.5(remember all the previous runs on
> > that charge), that car had a LOT more potential. It would be nice if
> > Milwaukee would dial it in and get some really nice times from it.
> >
> > The good news is, there are some really serious street beasts in the
> > works, and a certain electric rail car is about to set some more
> > records...
> >
> > A new generation of high performance electrics.. not to mention the
> > potential new age of batteries on the verge of being a reality. The
> > future of EV's is bright. Remember this Jesse, the business you own
> > and run revolves around the availability of gasoline. How many
> > Choppers will you sell if there is no gasoline? When you get bored,
> > consider building an electric Chopper with the uncertain and
> > unguaranteed future in mind..
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BYU's electric formula car isn't that fast but would be a good data
point for comparison:
<http://research.et.byu.edu/e-blue/cars/eblue/tech.htm>
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I need some input from the experts out there. What are the
> absolute
> minimums it will take in the form of batteries, motors,
> controllers,
> chargers, (all the essential EV stuff), to get a 3-4 year old
> Nextel
> cup car chassis with all required onboard equipment to a peak speed
> of
> 200 + MPH and an average of 190 MPH for one lap at Daytona? I know
> it
> can be done but what is the best way?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nope. They're brushless DC.
> Just a curious question:
>
> What would these "hub motors" fall into that setup? SR?
>
> http://www.crystalyte.com/index.html
>
> They sound like giant inside-out stepper motors. PWM DC sent to each
> coil section in the rotor at a different time based on angle, with fixed
> magnets on the stator... great power-to-weight, but they are whisper
> quiet supposedly.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn,
What shape body are you planning to use? If you get the Cd down to 0.20
or 0.15 that will help tremendously. Can you make changes to the
shape/belly pan?
If you send us the frontal area and Cd, then we can calculate the power
needed to push the air at 190MPH.
-Robert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I need some input from the experts out there. What are the absolute
minimums it will take in the form of batteries, motors, controllers,
chargers, (all the essential EV stuff), to get a 3-4 year old Nextel
cup car chassis with all required onboard equipment to a peak speed of
200 + MPH and an average of 190 MPH for one lap at Daytona? I know it
can be done but what is the best way?
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> The racers will have much better data than I will. I try *not* to
>> break things! :-)
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Things would be more fun if you were hell bent on extracting maximum
> performance don't you think?
I think I stopped enjoying breaking things on purpose by the time I was
10 years old. I realize that it takes longer for some people. :-)
> Your first mission is to set up a video camera and film gratuitous
> amounts of turning your tires into smoke for us. Your second mission
> is to make your car be faster then John Waylands White Zombie...
> We'll work on your third mission when you get to it...
If I tackled these first two missions, I think my third mission would be
divorce!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would be a "standard" cup car (such as a Monte Carlo) from a few
years ago.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:02:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Is a 200 mph Electric Cup Car possible ?
Shawn,
What shape body are you planning to use? If you get the Cd down to 0.20
or 0.15 that will help tremendously. Can you make changes to the
shape/belly pan?
If you send us the frontal area and Cd, then we can calculate the power
needed to push the air at 190MPH.
-Robert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I need some input from the experts out there. What are the absolute >
minimums it will take in the form of batteries, motors, controllers, >
chargers, (all the essential EV stuff), to get a 3-4 year old Nextel >
cup car chassis with all required onboard equipment to a peak speed of
> 200 + MPH and an average of 190 MPH for one lap at Daytona? I know it
can be done but what is the best way?
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim
Thanks for clearing that up. I just got the last parts I needed to start
building and I wanted to
get the timing right first. I'm not planning on racing (too much) and I'll be
using the
transmission for reverse. A little advanced timing should be appropriate.
Dave Cover
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Dave
>
> First off a brush is in nuetral when it alligns in the middle of the pole
> shoe magnetics. If
> you're looking at the drive end of your motor (shaft end) take the pole shoe
> bolt heads and line
> them up as you look toward the brushes. You should find that those bolt
> heads are in line with
> where the brushes hit the commutator. Again looking from the drive end and
> your motor needs to
> run CCWDE then you would rotate the comm plate CWDE (opposit of rotation) to
> achieve advance.
> The brush hits the comm bar advance of nuetral. Like I stated if the brushes
> are in line with
> your pole shoe bolt heads then the motor is in nuetral and is the best
> easiest way for me to
> explain how to tell if ones motor has been timed or not.
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- James Massey wrote:
> >
> > Brush advancing is to rotate the brushes from the neutral point (where they
> > sit as best for equal power both rotational directions) to a point where
> > the neutral point moves to under high forward power. Rich Rudman keeps
> > saying "10 degrees for street, 13 degrees for drag racing". Series motors
> > are happiest with the brush timing advanced. Seperately excited tends to
> > burn their brushes when braking if they have been advanced.
> >
>
> In spite of how much the topic of brush timing has been discussed, can
> somoene just answer a
> simple question? Does advancing the timing mean moving the brushes OPPOSITE
> to the direction of
> motor rotation or the SAME as the direction of motor rotation?
>
> I know it's obvious to everyone else, but...
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
> starting at
> 1¢/min.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
> There are many people that have a bias against electric cars...
> We were talking about the MG show, and he said there would never
> be any EVs in this country, Montana, because they do not have the
> power, range, speed...
> So, he ask me what kind of vehicle I drive; I said an electric car.
> He then looks out the window, looking for a small baby buggy type of
> car. I said it's that one, the 1977 El Camino...
> His eyes pop out his head, hit the window and snap back in (well, it
> seems like it).
Great story, Roland. I just *love* it when that happens. It *really*
makes my day! :-)
Of course, the proof will be if you see that guy tomorrow, and find he
has changed his tune. Don't be surprised if he pretends it never
happened; it is very hard for people to change their minds; and even
harder to ADMIT that they changed it.
What I love the most is to hear some guy spout off about how EVs are
impossible, and then have one of my neighbors or acquaintances chime in
(without needing to be kicked under the table) that he used to think
that way, but has changed his mind. That's when I know I *have* gotten
through to someone!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please expand on your own vehicles. Is there an URL for them?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There is many people that have a bias against electric cars, because
if they
> are so far removed from them, and the only experience they have is
electric
> golf carts and fork lifts.
>
> I just got done talking to a car guy at the café I go everyday. He
has a
> whole building full of custom classic cars in mint condition. He
owns his
> own custom car shop. He just got done buying a new giant pickup to
replace
> his 2005 pickup, which he paid about $60,000.00 for. Does this about
every
> one to two years.
>
> We was talking about the MG show, and he said, there would never be
any EVs
> in this country, Montana, because they do not have the power, range,
speed.
> Cannot drive it in the rain, snow or its too cold. Takes too long to
charge
> and must charge it every day.
>
> So, he ask me what kind of vehicle I drive, I said a electric car.
He then
> look out the window, looking for a small baby buggies type of car.
I said
> its that one, the 1977 El Camino that has been customize by EFP and EV
> Systems.
>
> His eyes pop out his head, hit the window and snap back in, well it
seems
> like it.
>
> We than went out side to look at it. I said, I drive this EV
everyday even
> at 33 F below. Had to jumper a lot of ICE that did not start. Can
drive
> through a foot of snow with no problem. Takes only 20 minutes to
charge the
> batteries, and can drive just over 100 miles city driving. In many
cases, I
> need only to charge the batteries every four days, and water the
batteries
> with $0.59 gallon of distill water a month as compare to you using over
> $50.00 a month.
>
> So this is what a demonstration EV is all about. I take my EV to car
shows,
> schools and technical schools.
>
> Our north middle school 8 grade students, won the local science
event and
> they will be going to the national's which is sponsor by DOE. They
built a
> AFC fuel cell that ran a electric remote control model car for there
> project.
>
> The next challenge is to have a group to put together a EV that will
be able
> to drive across the country in three days or less. For 3000 miles.
This
> was done back in 1975 with my car, call Transformer I which ran over
1000
> miles in 24 hours, so this should be possible with today's technology.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Monster Garage
>
>
> > So why did the Milwakee guy spew on about not in our lifetime
> > regarding EV's? Sorry I cannot remember his name.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], ev@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jonathan Zick <Jonathan.Zick@>
> > > To: 'Shawn Lawless' <shawn@>; lawlessind@
> > > Sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:47:31 -0500
> > > Subject: Fw: Monster Garage
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Note: forwarded message attached.
> > >
> > >
> > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using
Yahoo!
> > > Messenger with Voice.
> > > ----- Message from J Z <mr_m_tools@> on Wed, 12 Apr 2006
> > > 05:51:28
> > > -0700 (PDT) -----
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > To: ev@
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Monster Garage
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Everyone,
> > > This is my first time posting here on the list, but I have been
> > > following
> > > the forum since January (when I first met Shawn and Rich). I'd
like to
> > > first start off by saying it's a great site and forum and am quite
> > > impressed with some of the conversations that go on here. I
would also
> > > like to take the opportunity to thank Shawn, Rich, Ron, and
Danny for
> > > all
> > > the work they did during the build. There is NO WAY the build would
> > > have
> > > been a success without any one of them. Everyone had a key part to
> > > complete in order to get the car to move. Great job
everyone!!!!!! A
> > > lot
> > > of skill and hard work...and some just dumb luck, made it a
great show.
> > >
> > > Now, let me give you the feedback from a lot of Milwaukee employees.
> > > There
> > > was basically two comments...1) Everyone that I talked to was
very very
> > > surprised that a EV could go that fast!! 2) They gained a huge
respect
> > > for
> > > the hazards involved and the care and time needed to build such an
> > > electric
> > > monster.
> > > Now, this is from people that have NO exposure to Ev's. Great
PR for
> > > the
> > > EV industry.
> > >
> > > Ryan, to answer your questions below, cause I'm sure Shawn and
Rich's
> > > fingers are getting tired:
> > > 1) The challenge came up unexpectedly (due to the car making an
> > > appearance
> > > at the Builders Show in Orlando) and it was hard enough to get
the team
> > > back together in time to charge and reload the batteries. Plus West
> > > Coast
> > > still had to paint the dam thing.
> > > 2) The parking lot "parading" actually turned out better then I
thought
> > > it
> > > would. At that point, do to a wiring issue, we were running
only half
> > > power. Which we were not too happy with but it turned out to be
a good
> > > thing because the tires were rubbing on the body. If we would have
> > > been at
> > > full power, I'm sure the tires would have blown. We got lucky
on that
> > > one...right guys!!!
> > > 3) The tires...we didn't have a say in. That was what Jesse
brought
> > > us so
> > > that is what we put on the car. The tires were the least of our
> > > worries at
> > > that point.
> > > 4) As for the car as it stands today, it draws a very good
crowd where
> > > ever it goes. Everyone is impressed that it went so fast and can't
> > > believe
> > > it is powered by tool batteries. It is one of the most
successful brand
> > > events Milwaukee has done. So far the car has not run since the
last
> > > event...butttttttt...you never know...there still might be a few
more
> > > races
> > > in the beast...right Shawn!!
> > > Right now I can't seem to get the car out of Marketing's hands
cause I
> > > know
> > > I would really like to see it go 100mph. All the batteries and
chargers
> > > are still in my office so the fuel is ready!!!
> > >
> > > Ok....sorry so long winded. I'll stop talking now.
> > > Jon "Jagarbomber" Zick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ryan Stotts <stotts.ryan@> wrote:
> > > I liked the show and was glad to see it and that the car was
> > > completed. I've seen every Monster Garage episode ever made, and I
> > > was completely unaware of all the goading that apparently went
on with
> > > the film crew, etc. Maybe since this was the last episode(so I've
> > > heard..), they went all out and didn't hold back(nothing to lose?)?
> > >
> > > Even though "hindsight is always 20/20", just for future
reference in
> > > case something similar ever arises:
> > >
> > > What was the situation where they wouldn't let you take the car
to the
> > > track in the days or weeks before the race to dial it in?
> > >
> > > It would have been nice if the power would have been cranked up so
> > > when Jesse was parading around the parking lot on the first
drive, he
> > > could have been doing burnouts and donuts and really been able
to show
> > > what electrics can do..
> > >
> > > Also it would have been nice if some real tires, or at least some
> > > decent back tires could have been used so that car would have
ran at
> > > least consistent 13's and beat that Mopar every time... Amazing it
> > > did run that 14.5 after all those previous runs it had been through
> > > though! Those batteries had a lot more in them then I thought they
> > > would have. (now if we could buy those batteries at a fair
price...)
> > > Considering the weight of that car, and all the wheel spin(time
> > > wasted) and STILL running a 14.5(remember all the previous runs on
> > > that charge), that car had a LOT more potential. It would be
nice if
> > > Milwaukee would dial it in and get some really nice times from it.
> > >
> > > The good news is, there are some really serious street beasts
in the
> > > works, and a certain electric rail car is about to set some more
> > > records...
> > >
> > > A new generation of high performance electrics.. not to mention the
> > > potential new age of batteries on the verge of being a reality. The
> > > future of EV's is bright. Remember this Jesse, the business you own
> > > and run revolves around the availability of gasoline. How many
> > > Choppers will you sell if there is no gasoline? When you get bored,
> > > consider building an electric Chopper with the uncertain and
> > > unguaranteed future in mind..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
