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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV_Discussion_Group" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Tour de Sol
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:30:08 -0400
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV_Discussion_Group" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Tour de Sol
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:39:43 -0400
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV_Discussion_Group" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Tour de Sol
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:46:05 -0400
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Don B. Davidson III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Tour de Sol
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:55:49 -0400
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I live in Central NY less than 2 hour drive to Saratoga. I plan on attending
this year's Tour de Sol on Saturday, May 14 If anyone has any additional info
or incentives (discount tickets?) please contact me off list. Thanks!
I'm a active member of local car clubs, eaaev and am restoring two ev's (1983
Bradley GTElectric & 1980 Jet Electravan)
Don Davidson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:55:44 +1000
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From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
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Ah! Flywheel plus motor/generator.
There has been a little discussion in the past.
So peekay, what do you know?
A brief googling session didn't find much concrete info - lots of
projections and expectations though.
Where can you get them?
How much do they cost?
How much energy can they store?
How much power can they deliver?
(both of the above need to be expressed as per unit volume or weight)
Do they come in suitable sizes for EVs?
Can they handle the continual shocks and vibrations of a car?
Would there be any gyroscopic effects with such a large, high speed
rotating mass?
What happens when they fail? (say in a collision where an EMB is
damaged)
Actually, that would be pretty scary - several kW of energy suddenly
released - I hope that nothing soft is in the plane of rotation as the
flywheel flies apart.
Sorry - that's really worst case scenario...
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of peekay
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 4:50 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
>
>
> EMB means electro mechanical batteries
>
> ..peekay
>
>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:27:58 +1000
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can someone correct a misunderstanding?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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G'day Dave - and all
At 03:05 PM 26/04/06 +1000, Dave wrote:
>Hi list,
>
>After working full time the last few days to get more knowledge on EVs and
>the direction I want to progress, I've come to a basic setup and what I'd
>like to ask is if I'm going in the right direction:
>
>Donor car will be a Civic or maybe a Hyundai Excel(MY96+) called Accent then
>in the US. I know the Civic has been done and Lee stated this was an ok
>choice, any one done a Hyundai Excel (accent)? I'm strongly leaning to the
>Civic due to the abundance of performance parts for this vehicle, although
>the Hyundai is lighter and a lot cheaper glider.
Hyundai may struggle with the weight - 325kg of batteries in a cheap car is
likely asking for trouble - and I doubt the gearbox would cope with the
torque of the 9" DC motor (I've heard they are so-so with the ICE, a friend
went through 3 gearboxes whilst under warranty). At least the Civic gives
you manufacturers' upgrade gearbox from a turbo something else from Honda
without having to have custom driveshafts and other stuff made. Don't
forget you really need to upgrade the brakes as well (since you will loose
compression braking and will have no regen braking).
>System will be DC based, I originally wanted an AC system as they appear
>more of a turnkey solution, yet they seem to be limited by an inverter that
>only handles 100KW? My next conversion will likely be AC though.
"Only 100kW" :^) don't forget that an EV with 100kW will (if it can get the
power to the road) walk all over an ICE vehicle that has 150kW, since the
EV can produce 100kW across a large proportion of its rev range, where the
ICE can only peak at that in a narrow band.
>Motor 9" ADC or Warp 9" (will a 9" motor fit in a Civic?)
You should be able to make it fit - but may need to be shortened.
Datasheets should be on the 'net. Borrow a Civic and take some measurments.
If it needs to be shortened contact Jim Husted (Hi Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/ ) and see what it'd cost for one from him
custom modded to suit (he'd be a good source for one anyway, if he's got
one available since it'll be better prepped than an ex-factory motor).
You'd be up to arrange your own importing, although that's no biggie,
you'll be doing customs for a lot of stuff. Make sure you get your
controller described as "programmable controller under 1000V" on the
shipping documents, as there is no import duty on that description,
although you'll still need to pay GST before you get customs release. Find
a customs agent (to do the paperwork, he'll cost very little) before you
get the stuff shipped.
>Zilla 1K
Z1K-HV - High voltage version, since the -LV version can only do 156V
nominal and add 20% more money for the -HV.
>18 orbital 34XCD
>PFC-20 charger on board with some kind of BMS (regulators).
>
>Keeping Civic gearbox and clutch. This is Girlfriend friendly and I can let
>other people drive it.
>
>Is this going to be useable for two things:
>
>1. Showing that EVs are just as fast as an ICE - I' like to change some
>perceptions.
>
>2. A daily run around that can do 20 miles without making the battery suffer
>if driven like an normal ICE - my girlfriend will be driving it at times -,
>so say a max range of 40 miles?
>
>Am I going in the right direction?
Sounds fine to me.
So what is the misunderstanding?
Regards
James
Subject: RE: Can someone correct a misunderstanding?
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:46:42 +1000
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
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Hi David,
You might want to also consider a Daihatsu Charade.
Similar size to what you're after.
There are quite a few EV Charades in Australia - many people know how to
do a decent job of electrifying them.
Zilla 1K - good choice.
A 9" motor will happily push a Commodore sized car around.
An 8" is plenty big enough for that sized car.
PFC charger - good choice.
Orbitals - good batteries.
Squeezing them all in to a small car - tricky.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Ankers
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 3:05 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Can someone correct a misunderstanding?
>
>
> Hi list,
>
> After working full time the last few days to get more
> knowledge on EVs and
> the direction I want to progress, I've come to a basic setup
> and what I'd
> like to ask is if I'm going in the right direction:
>
> Donor car will be a Civic or maybe a Hyundai Excel(MY96+)
> called Accent then
> in the US. I know the Civic has been done and Lee stated this
> was an ok
> choice, any one done a Hyundai Excel (accent)? I'm strongly
> leaning to the
> Civic due to the abundance of performance parts for this
> vehicle, although
> the Hyundai is lighter and a lot cheaper glider.
>
> System will be DC based, I originally wanted an AC system as
> they appear
> more of a turnkey solution, yet they seem to be limited by an
> inverter that
> only handles 100KW? My next conversion will likely be AC though.
>
> Motor 9" ADC or Warp 9" (will a 9" motor fit in a Civic?)
> Zilla 1K
> 18 orbital 34XCD
> PFC-20 charger on board with some kind of BMS (regulators).
>
> Keeping Civic gearbox and clutch. This is Girlfriend friendly
> and I can let
> other people drive it.
>
> Is this going to be useable for two things:
>
> 1. Showing that EVs are just as fast as an ICE - I' like to
> change some
> perceptions.
>
> 2. A daily run around that can do 20 miles without making the
> battery suffer
> if driven like an normal ICE - my girlfriend will be driving
> it at times -,
> so say a max range of 40 miles?
>
> Am I going in the right direction?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:07:05 +0300
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 300 Miles Per Charge Lithium-Battery Car, front page news
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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WOW. right.. Lithium motor. Convinces me already...
but. I believe they can easily sell such car with 35k and even with
lower price. The pure simplicity of Lion batteries make then cheap to
make. Price is affected mainly by the insides of it. Some chemistries
promise a lot but still due low volumes price keeps high.
If these pioneers get 1000 cars sold.. It is a very nice start.
Please do not be too sceptic about it. Even if their sales people know
nothing about the technology (quite common actually)...
..if companys "driving force" says this.. I think he tries to make it
more understandable to common people. After all we (this ev community)
are a miority and well educated folk.
I see every now and then computer shops to sell laptops with 512 Mega
bits memory. And it is a slightly different from Mega bytes :)
-Jukka
Victor Tikhonov kirjoitti:
> Nick Austin wrote:
>
>>
>> In this video, it is claimed that you can buy a 300 mile range Liion
>> powered
>> smart car for $35K. Is that true?!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
> Up until now I didn't realize Lithium motors exist.
>
> Excerpt from their PR guy:
>
> -------------
> "We can take basically any vehicle and adapt it to fit, we basically can
> take any model and put a lithium motor, and so it really comes down to
> what the market is looking for," Griffiths said
> -------------
>
> Victor
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:45:46 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Torque per amp
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sure, but it would be a HECK of a lot easier (and MUCH cheaper) to simply
change gears in your transmission.
I mean that's all you're really trying to do, change wheel torque at the
expense of wheel rpm.
> Is this a correct statement? In a given motor, it can be wired for more
> torque /amp at the expense of volts per RPM.
>
> If so, what could I do to a warp 9 to change this and would it be
> significantly less wastefull if my commute has lots and lots of stop and
> go traffic? more turns of smaller wire in field? can this be done
> without changeing the armature?
>
> I had also heard that over advancing motor robs low end torque a little.
> How big of an effect are we talking about.
>
> I think one of the resons my EV is so wasteful on power is that it takes
> to many amps to accelerate, only once I get above some set rpm does it
> seem to stop lugging. The lugging away from stoplights is more wasteful,
> but the next lower gear is too much change.
>
> Steve clunn, what kind of milage (wh/mile) does your 300zx get? is that
> normal driving or egg under foot? (my normal is apprently spirited by
> other peoples standards.) Iknow you mention it once i am searching.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
From: "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: A Lead acid to V28 E-Moli cell conversion
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:59:20 +1000
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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This has some humour value and fairly relevant :-)
http://media.putfile.com/E-Moli-Lil-Kawasaki
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:10:46 -0400
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
From: "John F. Norton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: And so it begins...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 12:32 PM 4/24/2006, you wrote:
>This is a telecom/railway battery. It looks like the same problem
>as those phenomenally cheap huge capacity DataSafe batteries a guy
>had tons of on eBay.
>
>The DataSafes turned out not to be designed for high current and,
>despite being an AGM cell, were only rated for a VERY limited number
>of cycles. They had a 10 or 20 yr standby rating. The idea is
>they'd be able to provide large volumes of emergency power but could
>only do it a few times. And that was made by Hawker; it's not a
>poorly designed battery, it was just designed for very different
>circumstances and would perform poorly in an inappropriate
>application like an EV. I noticed the eBay guy said they were part
>of a solar setup, which is a tragically wrong choice of batteries
>and no doubt why he was selling them off. He probably blew through
>their rated cycle life in under a month.
>
>Anyways what you're looking at is a GNB Marathon battery. It also
>specifies "telecom" and "railway", which makes me think this is a
>similar design. In fact the spec sheet mentions it is designed for
>low current discharges (that alone rules out its usefulness in an
>EV). I suspect it may have similar cycle life limitations too.
>
>There's the website, but it has no spec sheets:
>http://217.7.78.166/rs_start.asp?lng=en&gnb=2
><http://217.7.78.166/rs_start.asp?lng=en&gnb=2>
>
>Danny
Good info, thanks.
Here is the spec sheet for the new ones:
http://www.tpscrail.com/products/gnb/PDF/Marathon.pdf/Marathon_topterminal.pdf
I don't see any thing about cycles, which is probably an idicator
that your hunch is right. The charts seem to show 40A discharge
rates, which would indeed be low. I don't know exactly what I am
looking at in the specs.
Though here is a Miata conversion that used Marathon batteries:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Composite_Aircraft_Accessories/electric.htm
Key statement from the page:
March 2003. The GNB batteries are dying like flies, but they managed
to give me 2,000 miles of fun driving. They were not designed for
deep cycle service and did quite well considering the demands put on
them. They were also free.
So, yeah, even at that cheap price, doesn't look like it would be worth it.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries .. the discussion begins
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:51:58 +0530
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hello mark
at 54 yrs age, i cannot be the inventor of the EMB .. nor
can i be the 'improver' .. nor the 'answerer' of the issues
since you have been able to grasp the idea quite clearly,
as is very clear from your very relevant questions/issues,
i guess it would help if people know a bit more about
how EMB's work .. how the govt supported LLNL labs
are sure that those are solutions .. how they have confirmed
that EMB's have much less weight for the same amp-hrs of
storage than lead acid and other batteries
the questions ARE relevant .. tho one is rather one that
seems a bit toooo stretched ..about 'release' of a huge
amount of stored energy in case of an accident .. we
hardly think that the release of 'acid' from lead acid
batteries is a major issue .. it IS .. that's sulphuric ACID
man .. if the battery breaks open .. and the acid comes
upon the drivers face/body .. since it is only a couple of
feet away from him .. THEN a catastrophe may happen !
similarly if the gasoline breaks loose and covers the passengers
and BURNS .. itself AND passengers (racing car accidents
happen exactly like that) .. catastrophe !
so .. in all fairness .. let us 'discuss' .. and determine the pros,
cons, possibilites, solutions, suggestions
or not discuss
it is all upto us
i have absolutely no stakes in their succes/failures .. i am
as curious as any other member here ..
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
> Ah! Flywheel plus motor/generator.
>
> There has been a little discussion in the past.
>
> So peekay, what do you know?
> A brief googling session didn't find much concrete info - lots of
> projections and expectations though.
>
> Where can you get them?
> How much do they cost?
> How much energy can they store?
> How much power can they deliver?
> (both of the above need to be expressed as per unit volume or weight)
> Do they come in suitable sizes for EVs?
> Can they handle the continual shocks and vibrations of a car?
> Would there be any gyroscopic effects with such a large, high speed
> rotating mass?
> What happens when they fail? (say in a collision where an EMB is
> damaged)
> Actually, that would be pretty scary - several kW of energy suddenly
> released - I hope that nothing soft is in the plane of rotation as the
> flywheel flies apart.
> Sorry - that's really worst case scenario...
>
> Mark
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of peekay
> > Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 4:50 AM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
> >
> >
> > EMB means electro mechanical batteries
> >
> > ..peekay
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006
>
>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:30:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie Update...360
Volts...More...
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 4/25/06 8:44:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< >If you do a long burnout and go past the start line, how are you going
>to move the vehicle back otherwise? Seen any big cars lay rubber for
>~300'+? >>
In the NHRA you are not allowed to do a burnout past the starting line UNLESS
your car can run 9.99 or quicker> Dennis Berube
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:45:34 -0000
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "John F. Norton" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: And so it begins...
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Good info, thanks.
>
> Here is the spec sheet for the new ones:
>
>
http://www.tpscrail.com/products/gnb/PDF/Marathon.pdf/Marathon_topterminal.pdf
>
> I don't see any thing about cycles, which is probably an idicator
> that your hunch is right. The charts seem to show 40A discharge
> rates, which would indeed be low. I don't know exactly what I am
> looking at in the specs.
>
The time charts show Ah up to a 30min discharge rate, but without
cycle life, this is only useful data for UPS installations.
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:56:52 -0000
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Nissan AC conversion, Ebay motor questions
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Not to burst the bubble, but... the major problem with this particular
> motor is one can't get the needed matching controller. This renders the
> motor essentially usleless.
>
> The motor may also be a bit larger than needed for the size car you are
> looking at but that point is moot.
>
I contacted one of the rare buyers of this eBay-er's motors, and they
were going to be developing their own AC controller - sounds like lots
of fun for an EE class (but they didn't say if that's what they were).
This same motor sits on the rear axle of my truck, so feeding one in a
lighter car might be pretty damn peppy - Ford only uses 90kW from
their controller, but these motors could supposedly handle twice that!
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:00:16 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Torque per amp
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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no squealing or gowling noise, just apply the pedal and the amps climb
and the car moves but slower throtle response than i thing it should
have for those amps. Then as it gets to 1000 rpm or so it starts to get
responsive and climb quicly. Imagine in normal traffic 3/4 throttle to
get rollingthen sharply reduce to 1/4 throttle so as not to overrun the
person in front.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:14:09 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie Update...360
Volts...More HP!
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neon john said
"Drop down a level. Look at how much farther ahead John is simply by
virtue of being given high performance batteries and the one-off
custom-built motor. ...'
Ouch, a little harsh don't you think? I think john is fast because he
bloody well worked at it. he earned the sponsership he now gets by
proving himself. he developed the dual motor in this application , the
one off custom built motr came from his lessons of blowing things up, in
the best spirit of racing.( i have a small list of blown up stuff in the
ICE world, myself)
I do however see your perspective on those rules being discussed. they
look almost silly until seen in the cost containing perspective.
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Fywheel Batteries (Elecro Mechanical Batteries?)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:25:19 -0700
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There was mention of flywheel batteries and a lack of information, I
thought I would give some links:
http://itotd.com/articles/332/
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.05/flywheel.html?pg=1
http://rpm2.8k.com/basics.htm
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/seta/2002/05/16/stories/2002051600130200.htm
http://spaceresearch.nasa.gov/general_info/flywheel_lite.html
http://www.utexas.edu/opa/news/01newsreleases/nr_200102/nr_batteries010205.h
tml
Manufacturers:
http://www.beaconpower.com/products/EnergyStorageSystems/flywheels.htm
http://www.afstrinity.com/other-facts-faqs.html
Interesting that the last one AFS Trinity, is building a flywheel powered
hybrid vehicle for demonstration...
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:18:14 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
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Christopher Zach wrote:
> I should be able to build 50 of them, just not with the detectors.
> I just need to keep in mind this is a rev 1.0 solution.
I agree. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Try for perfection, and
you may have *nothing* in the meantime.
>> The tap is chosen to provide about 0.5 amps at 14.5v per 12v battery.
> So in theory you could leave the charger on forever. The regs will
> bypass all the current at that point, and when all the regs are lit
> it will just sit at 14.5 with a net current of .5a.
Correct. There is a timer to shut the charger off, but it is set
manually. Even if I crank it to the maximum 12 hours, I can't overcharge
all that badly.
>> Did you get [the zeners] from two different sources?
> Both came from Mouser. They had the Central Semi 6.8 volt ones (the
> fat ones) but they did not have 6.2 volt ones. So I got 1N5341B's
> which are NTE replacements. They are a bit longer and skinnier;
> they fit snugly in a 10 gauge lug.
Hmm... a 10 gauge lug is rather small to act as a heatsink for 5 watts.
Check the actual junction temperature you get for your diodes. You may
need to leave off the 10 ohm resistor so you don't overheat the diodes.
> The lead is hot enough to steam water off my finger, so that's too
> hot. I'll get some #6 lugs from mouser; do you have a particular
> part number?
I used heavy-duty 6ga tinned eyelets, with a 5/16" bolt hole, from
Waytek Wire, part# 36472.
For folks still reading this: Is it worth my while to make a "production
run" of these regulators? They're very tedious to make in small
quantities, but not bad if I set up a little "production line" and make
a couple hundred at once. Who would be interested in them at $9.95 each?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: A Lead acid to V28 E-Moli cell conversion
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:24:06 +0200
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:-)
This is the proof, we definitely need to change our Pb-batts into
lithium in all our EVs, right now!
Just look at this driver, he is so happy with its increased kW/kg :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: A Lead acid to V28 E-Moli cell conversion
> This has some humour value and fairly relevant :-)
>
> http://media.putfile.com/E-Moli-Lil-Kawasaki
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:41:19 -0700
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 'Simply Given? was:White Zombie Update...
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Hello to All,
Neon John wrote:
>Look at how much farther ahead John is simply by
>virtue of being given high performance batteries and the one-off
>custom-built motor. ...'
>
>
>
>
Jeff Shanab wrote:
>Ouch, a little harsh don't you think? I think john is fast because he
>bloody well worked at it. he earned the sponsership he now gets by
>proving himself. he developed the dual motor in this application , the
>one off custom built motr came from his lessons of blowing things up, in
>the best spirit of racing.
>
Thanks Jeff, I appreciate this very much.
I do take issue with Neon John's comments that I was 'simply given'
batteries and a one-off custom motor.
Simply given batteries? There was nothing simple about arriving to
today's status of being sponsored by Aerobatteries and Hawker. Do I
appreciate it? Of course I do. But to imply it was simple seems to be
quite a slap in the face.
As to that motor that was 'simply given' to me as well, think again! The
twin motors that were morphed into the Siamese 8 were my motors, motors
I paid for from my work in the early beginnings of NetGain and the
build-up of what was then known as Bad Amplitude, the NetGain rail
dragster back in the Chicago area. Though I received sponsorship from
Dutchman Motorsports while we were developing the custom stainless steel
armature shaft in the form of deep discounts, some freebie items, and
lots of personal free labor and moral support from the Dutchman himself,
I paid money for materials. Jim Husted did donate all his time and
labor, plus copper, misc. motor parts, and shop materials...again, very
much appreciated. Jim however, would be the first to tell anyone that I
wasn't simply handed a one-off custom motor. Tim Brehm, too, was a big
part of the Siamese 8 project...so was the Madman Rich Rudman, and along
with the Dutchman, the three of them made long trips over into central
Oregon to Jim's shop in Redmond. The five of us spent many late night
hours huddled around lathes, presses, and other machinery at Dutchman's
machine shop. I also received lots of help, as I always do, from Marko
Mongillo at the metal shop, where we made the heavy duty motor brackets.
Of course, I return the favor when I help Marko, as I've been doing for
the past month or so as we're working on his 'Baby Blue' re-conversion
project.
The amount of time and energy we all put into the Siamese 8 project
would exhaust most folks, trust me! I'd say I've got close to 3K of my
own money into this one-off custom motor. I deeply respect Jim Husted
and am in awe of his fine craftsmanship, but let there be no mistake,
all aspects of the Siamese 8 had to be approved by me, and most all of
the racing tricks put into this motor were learned the hard way, by me.
Keep in mind also, that I openly share all info about everything I do in
regards to racing and the items we either design or modify. One of my
goals is to make it easier for others to join in and race and or daily
drive their EVs. You can check with anybody, and you'll never hear one
word about me slamming the hood shut, or cloaking the car from view, or
refusing to share what I know with other competitors, friends, fellow
racers, or just strangers interested in what we do. In fact, I've kept
everyone on this EVDL abreast of the entire project with my constant
postings, so I find it odd that Neon John would make the comment 'simply
given'....oh well.
See Ya.....John Wayland
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:48:20 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet
someone
is happy.)
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Neon John wrote:
> I have a non-EV project in mind where these cells would work perfectly
> if I didn't have to BMS every one individually. Charging speed isn't
> an issue - overnight would be fine - so I can sacrifice speed for
> simplicity.
Since the packs come with a BMS already built in, why not use it? How
hard is it to just use them with the same charger that Milwaukee is
using, or "hack" one and make an equivalent one that can charge many
packs at once?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:03:39 -0700
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
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Years ago, I did a bit of research into flywheel batteries, and I have a
couple of answers, I think.
Mark Fowler wrote:
> Ah! Flywheel plus motor/generator.
>
> There has been a little discussion in the past.
>
> So peekay, what do you know?
> A brief googling session didn't find much concrete info - lots of
> projections and expectations though.
>
> Where can you get them?
>
In theory, from AFS Trinity nee "American Flywheel Systems". In the
past, they've made larger flywheel power systems for buses and UPS
applications. Looking at their site, seems they have some sort of
ultracapacitor system for hybrids, now.
> How much do they cost?
>
A lot.
> How much energy can they store?
>
Their energy density was/is considerably better than lead-acid batteries.
> How much power can they deliver?
>
If I remember correctly, the answer is "more than enough"
> (both of the above need to be expressed as per unit volume or weight)
> Do they come in suitable sizes for EVs?
>
Years ago, they were working on electric vehicle modules, which
comprised two flywheels bolted together back-to-back in order to
counteract the precession. AFAIK, this idea is defunct, and the modules
are not available for "normal size" vehicles. Some research, or an
email to the company would yield a better answer.
> Can they handle the continual shocks and vibrations of a car?
>
They were described as having microprocessor-controlled magnetic
bearings that would accommodate just that sort of thing.
> Would there be any gyroscopic effects with such a large, high speed
> rotating mass?
>
See my answer above about the dual modules.
> What happens when they fail? (say in a collision where an EMB is
> damaged)
>
The rotors were comprised of a composite material that was essentially
like thread wound onto a bobbin that was held in place by a resin --
sort of like a wheel comprised of spindled fiberglass thread. The idea
being that in a catastrophic rotor delamination, it would merely
unravel. I'm not sure what form the energy would take -- heat, I
guess. Also, the modules were designed to contain in the event of such
a failure.
> Actually, that would be pretty scary - several kW of energy suddenly
> released - I hope that nothing soft is in the plane of rotation as the
> flywheel flies apart.
> Sorry - that's really worst case scenario...
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of peekay
>> Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 4:50 AM
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
>>
>>
>> EMB means electro mechanical batteries
>>
>> ..peekay
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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