EV Digest 5430
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Vs: strange problem
by Seppo Lindborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: CURRENT ELIMINATOR NEWS NHRA SUMMIT POINTS LEAD?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Regs: 0.35
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Regs, 1.0
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Yet another rubbish piece of EV publicity...More Rubbish<g>!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Regs: 0.35
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) How to advance brushes?
by "Garret Maki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Charging station, Hystarical Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) potbox and acceleration data
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Going to the Movies, WAS: Review of Who Killed the Electric Car? on Living
on Earth
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Yet another rubbish piece of EV publicity...
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: e-scooters
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Zilla DAQ 4 mode questions or how to graph a race?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: e-scooters
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Dual eteks in a 4 wheel vehicle
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Yet another rubbish piece of EV publicity...
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Yet another rubbish piece of EV publicity...
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just in case, have you checked the condition of the motor brushes?
Seppo
>----Alkuperäinen viesti----
>Lähettäjä: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Päivämäärä: Apr 30, 2006 12:05:18 AM
>Vastaanottaja: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Aihe: strange problem
>
>I went to the movies today 70mph on freeway there and 45mph on surface
>streets home. It started hammering during acceleration and surgeing
>during cruise which I assum is the pot box or connection, it is only
>amonth orr two old, but I wil check it. Funny thing is it got
>noticeably better milage, where it always takes me 3.4 kwh to do 7.3
>miles or 460 wh/mile it did 6.2 to do 15.8 miles or 392wh/mile and it
>wasn't cutting out hammering it was accelerating hammering.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another daylite to daylite race.....I just got back home from racing
yesterday,my last run was watching the sun come up today.My car backed out of
the
beams at 455am.in the semi final round of NHRAs Summit points race 3.It
happened 2
other times last nite in the left lane.Apperntly when I stage at one eight of
an inch into the beams my rear tires are in a ever so slight pocket so when I
take my foot off the brake and the other lane revs his engine my car rolls
back 1 quarter inch thus shutting off the second stage lite and Disqualifing me
giving me an auto red.Alls good though becuase I took out the points leader
earler in the nite and the 2nd place points car got taken out it round 4.So I
we
think I have taken the points lead back.This is HUGE in NHRA SUMMIT,with over
33 cars in my class I think I have a large points lead on all the other
tracks.The points should be posted by thursday,so its either a tie or I have
retaken the NHRA SUMMIT points race. YE HA going to bed now at 715 am.
DENNIS BERUBE Yes I will look into linelock.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, got 35 of the regs installed and potted yesterday. I'm going to have
to put the remaining 15 on today, then I'll take a picture and roll the
pack up.
After giving up on Harbor Freight, I went down to Pep boys and bought a
bigger load tester. My old one would put a 40 amp load on the batteries
as measured by an E-meter; this one puts 100amps. Sure enough the dud
batteries were duds, and two more batteries were dragged below 10 volts
at 100amp draw. They showed up good on the old tester, but on the other
hand with a 200 amp load all batteries (new and old) drop to about 11
volts and stay there. Can't ask for too much more.
However this leaves me with one "bad" battery after I used up all 6 of
my new ones. Need to order two more and do another drop in the future.
Drat. That will be a total of 8 bad batteries, for those who are counting.
I'm replacing the bad battery with one of the watered ones that I used
as a bench battery. It can put out 10ah before dropping after sitting
for a year, which isn't too bad. At least it is not reversed, and with
the new regs, it might recover somewhat in the pack. Least it will not
overcharge.
Since the weekend is going away, I will *NOT* be adding water to the
batteries. I'll have to do something like that on the next pack drop
when I have time. Oddly enough the bad batteries weigh the same amount
as the good ones within an ounce. One thought I am having here is to
deliberately dry a bad battery out with a week or two of massive
overcharge, then weigh it...
But at least my Prizm has REGS! REGS REGS REGS! Wooohahah! I have regs
now. My pack will be invincible!!! I will reg my way to happiness! I
will play reggie music in the car while it's charging!!!
No more needing to go to 390 to charge the batteries! No more blown up
cells!
And I will have to reprogram the chargers. I think I'll set the
Magnecharger to charge at 8 amps to 340, taper down to 1.5, then charge
at 1.5 to 362, then charge at 1 amp at 362 for an hour. That should keep
the regs under current limit, and allow slow batteries to start catching
up. On the Dolphin I'll just reprogram it to 25 batteries stock which
will charge it at 2amps up to about 350, then taper down to trickle
charge at 365 or so.
I'm a bit concerned about regen though; it cuts off at 365, but the
current can be high. I don't want to blow up the bulbs on the first
braking; any suggestions?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What kind of performance could one expect using 2 Etek type motors
each driving an axle directly with a belt at 4:1 ratio
Assuming a light weight 4 wheel frame (sand rail) 48 - 72 volts
45 mph ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> something like McKee's Sundancer; a 1600 lbs 2-seat sports
car...
> >> Twin Etek motors, each driving a rear wheel separately via
snowmobile
> >> belt-type CVT, contactor controller. A dozen 6v golf cart
batteries
> >> for power... 36v golf cart charger. Everything here is simple,
cheap,
> >> and available.
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > Didn't I hear that they had stopped production on the Etek? I
could
> > only find one place that still advertised them and they want
almost
> > $900 ea. So that's $1800 for the pair.
>
> <http://www.evparts.com> lists the Etek MT1214 for $325 each.
>
> > I have no idea how much a CVT would cost that could handle both
motors,
> > I'm guessing a couple hundred though.
>
> The plan was to have *two* CVTs, one for each motor, independently
> driving each wheel. The Comet Torq-A-Verter CVT setup is about $150
> each. They are rated at 8HP continuous duty; two should work fine
for a
> 1600 lbs car.
>
> > A contactor will cost about $75-$100.
>
> No; you'd be using golf car size contactors that are more like $20
each.
> Each motor is only pulling perhaps 200a peak. A 3-step controller
with
> forward/reverse takes about 6 contactors.
>
> > An 8" ADC will set you back about $1300
>
> That's four Eteks.
>
> > an Alltrax 72V controller $650
>
> Enoug for four contactor controllers.
>
> > and a couple hundred for a two speed chain drive setup
>
> Your forgot the differential. The twin CVTs replace it as well.
>
> > My original query was why people seem so fascinated with jumping
> > through hoops to get a CVT and somehow make it work. Several
times
> > I've seen people talking about building a super efficient EV, and
> > then they go and spec a CVT. They seem to be working under the
> > missimpression that it will have HIGHER efficiency than more
mudane
> > solutions.
>
> In general, I agree with you. A CVT is not very efficient. Simply
> replacing the transmission in an EV with a CVT is a step backwards
in
> efficiency.
>
> But the CVT in *this* case is there to allow the tiny Etek motors
to
> provide adequate horsepower over a wide speed range without a
> transmission, differential, or expensive controller. It's a
special case
> solution for a scratch-built car; not for the typical EV
conversion.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, 50 regs are in the car, potted, and tested. To test I used my old
big charger to try charging each almost full battery. If the light came
on, then reg is good.
Now I'll let the potting compound dry in the sun for a bit, then I'll
raise the pack this evening. I'll still have to drop one more time to
replace the two temp batteries, but I should have 20ah range.
Next step: Telemetry.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> Didn't I hear that they had stopped production on the Etek? I could
>> only find one place that still advertised them and they want almost
>> $900 ea. So that's $1800 for the pair.
>
> <http://www.evparts.com> lists the Etek MT1214 for $325 each.
I couldn't find it on their site originally, they don't list them under
either "street" or "electrathon" I didn't think they would only list them
under "Golf Carts"
Hmm that's a much weaker motor than I was thinking it was. Only 2.7
continuous HP.
>
>> I have no idea how much a CVT would cost that could handle both motors,
>> I'm guessing a couple hundred though.
>
> The plan was to have *two* CVTs, one for each motor, independently
> driving each wheel. The Comet Torq-A-Verter CVT setup is about $150
> each. They are rated at 8HP continuous duty; two should work fine for a
> 1600 lbs car.
>
>> A contactor will cost about $75-$100.
>
> No; you'd be using golf car size contactors that are more like $20 each.
> Each motor is only pulling perhaps 200a peak. A 3-step controller with
> forward/reverse takes about 6 contactors.
Can you specify a source for new $20 high currrent contactors? The onlyu
ones I could find for that price were only rated for 100 amps, far two low
to safely use in this application.
>> An 8" ADC will set you back about $1300
>
> That's four Eteks.
Ah well, I was thinking the Eteks put out more power, closer to the output
for a Lynch motor.
To equal (actually exceed) the power of the two little Eteks you
mentioned, you'd only need a 6.7" ADC A00-409: $568 That's about $70
cheaper than two Eteks.
>
>> an Alltrax 72V controller $650
>
> Enoug for four contactor controllers.
>
Well I could save $125 and use a controller that only /matches/ the
capability of the two Eteks.
>> and a couple hundred for a two speed chain drive setup
>
> Your forgot the differential. The twin CVTs replace it as well.
No I did not, I was thinking of connecting one clutch to one wheel and the
other clutch to the other. Granted you'd only end up with one wheel
drive, but that's basically what happens with a differential anyway.
Added advantage, with this setup power transfers to the wheel that is NOT
slipping. I.e. if the wheel connected to the centrifugal clutch slips
then the vehicle slows down and the sprague clutch takes over. If the
sprague clutch slips then the motor RPMs go up and the centrifugal clutch
engages.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nikki and All;
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Yet another rubbish piece of EV publicity...
> If Fox news is the only American programming you get, my condolences. The
press here gets lots of
> abuse for bias and Fox earns that reputation every day. There are
reputable news services here,
> more than one, you just have to be careful. Buyer beware.
>
> Dave Cover
>
> --- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Before anyone moans we're in the UK so the choice of American
> > programming we get is very small. Unfortunately FOX news is one of
> > the only channels we get.
> > FEH! Fox is a waste, "Fair and balanced" they arent. Now, remember in
U$A money talks! All the networks depend on Auto Ads for revinue. So they
arent gunna "diss" the hand that feeds them. Same with the newspaper and
other "Uernals", we have out there. THAT'S why you didn't hear about the 88
trapped returned from lease Sitdown at Burbank CA EV-1's that GM spirited
off in the night to be crushed, Other than the Net. The only place you can
get streight news nowadaze.
> > This morning (well, just now) they did a "passing article" on the
> > PNEV GEM 2 seater. It lasted approximately 10 seconds and featured
> > the words "It does 25 mph top speed".
> >
To maske EV's look like Golfcarts, no speed, clunky. Oh the Gem is
cute, at say, Dizzy World, or some other theme park, but in the real world,
you're gunna drive it in a sea of SUV's being "Driven" by idiots on cell
fones or diddling with the stupid, overly complex ,radios , Excuse me, Sound
Systems,they put in cars nowadaze, I was driving my kids truk and had to
pull off the road to SHUT UP the godamn radio. A plethura of glowing
buttons, that didn't say cute things like " Volume", Off-On"" Change
Stastion" Give mre the old Off-On knob, Station Selecter knob, or punch any
letter of "BUICK" to select a station! Finally it , the FACE fell off,
punching enough buttons! It shut up then!These damn Radios are more of a
hazard than mere cell fones! THEY should be outlawed.I can handle talking on
the cell, it breaks up the monolopy of long trips, but the godamn radio?
Make it give mt a traffic report on AM Noise (news)Radio 88, without having
to stop for 15 minutes to figgure out the radio.Cell Fones? Gees! I just
want to use it as a TELEPHONE! Not a camera, game boy or any other
acrobatics. I TOLD them at Verizon, they had to dig out a bear bones one for
me!
> > I do wish someone would do an article on an EV capable of highway
> > motoring... The GEM 2 seater is great as a car in the lower states in
> > urban areas. But that's about it.
> > Nikki, I Wish SOMEBODY would. The Current Events news mag of the EAA
is a decent source, but not mainstream. Ther was a mag, that came out
several years ago"Electric Car" I subscribed, still waiting for the NEXT
issue. It wrote up stuff we see here, Wayland, as I remember and his car
collection. Now THAT'S a subject that could fill one month's issue right
there. It was nicely done, glossy paper, all the nice enticments. Was the
kind of mag that , if put on a news stand, like at Penn Station, would
probably sell, to guyz looking for a good read on the Acela to DC? I know
nothing about the magazine biz, like howthehell would you even START? My bro
in law fancies that he is the next Earnest Hemingway, he PAID a Co to
publish his book. I don't think he ever SOLD any. It was the most
forgettable book I ever waded through. Feh! I coulda done better! His
speling was better, but he was an English( Do you want fries with that?"
Major. No joke! I think he DID do a tour at Mickey "D's. I guess
"Electrifying Times "is about our only print offering for EV's. He hasn't
gome " Mainstream" though.
Magazines are big money, like the other media, don't wanna touch EV's
Isn't where their bread is buttered.Probably the same in the UK. People are
so used to outragious gas prices that they don't care? Gas is getting as
expensive as bottled water, and people are screaming. In UK or Europe people
would be lining up at our 3 bux a gal stations, IF they could.But I fear
that electric will be going through the roof, if EV's catch on? Hell it's 16
cents a KWH, now in Corrupticut! NOW the Yahoos that pushed and got,
deregulation are lamenting that they ever let it go through! Saying C,L and
P the local power BILLER, now, should, maybe build a few power plants of
their own?Now id SOMEBODY would build a few power lines north to say,
Ontario Hydro or Quebec Hydro, and sell it down here?But the local power
co's cant even build Hy tension power LINES here, in NIMBY land.Took YEARS
of fighting to get a lousy cable 22 miles across, under, Long Island Sound,
to spread power around to who needs it.
So yuor EV news will come from right here. Stay tuned, throw us a news
tidbit when you can.After al We are out there, where EV's are happening.
Down from my Battery(Soap) box for now.
Seeya at Joliet?
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Ok, got 35 of the regs installed and potted yesterday... remaining
> 15 tomorrow... But at least my Prizm has REGS! REGS REGS REGS!
> Wooohahah! I have regs now. My pack will be invincible!!! I will
> reg my way to happiness! I will play reggie music in the car while
> it's charging!!!
Better build one more regulator, Chris. Wire this one to yourself. :-)
> And I will have to reprogram the chargers...
I'd keep the finishing current low for the first dozen charge cycles,
because the batteries will probably be out of balance. You could easily
have one or more batteries that come up to full much sooner than the
rest. If you are still running the charger at over 1 amp when this
happens, you might burn out some bulbs.
Of course, you can prevent this by having one or more light sensors in
the box, which can warn you and/or back off the charger. But I think I
recall you saying you weren't planning to have any light sensors in this
version.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Question,
I want to try advancing the brush timing on my ADC 6.7" 4HP A89 motor.
I am a total newbie when it comes to electric motors.
I am not sure how to do this. My first road block is how to get it
apart to get at them. I took out the bolts from the rear cap. I think
it is called a bell housing, right? I can get the bell housing to turn
a bit if I pull real hard, but it doesn't seem to want to slide off away
from the black main housing of the motor.
Do I need to do something to free it? I have held it from the unbolted
bell housing and shook it, but it didn't come off. Do I need to use a
pry bar or something?
Thanks,
Motor Newbie,
Garret
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well,
1. I was trying to spec out a really cheap solution
2. I was not aware o the GearVendors over/underdrive
3. 1.28:1 isn't a very low ratio for "low" gear.
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>
>> A custom two speed transimission would offer the best all around
>> efficiency and you could automate the shifting for less effort and
>> expense
>> than adapting a CVT.
>>
>>
> Urr?
>
> ... Or even a GearVendors overdrive/underdrive unit used with a suitably
> geared rear-end ...
>
> Why would someone need a custom two speed? There is a solution readily
> available, at least for rear wheel drive vehicles. You can flip the
> GearVendors unit around and have a 1.28:1 low gear, and a 1:1 high gear.
> Given most rear-ends are setup for 60MPH at 2 - 3K input speed (whatever
> the original car did in 4th gear), that sounds about right.
>
> Doesn't one of the EV suppliers also have a two speed for FWD vehicles?
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe;
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Bob;
>
> The 400 amp charger exceeds the safe working current of the Anderson 350
> connectors. We put Anderson 700 connectors on the 400 amp charger.
> Ah what's a few amps among friendsHa Ha!
> If Rich knows when you will arrive, he could have an adapter made to fit
> your car. He would need to remember to keep the amps down and keep
checking
> the connector temperatures.
> For sure! Tell Rich that not to worry I'm not gunna show up anytime soon,
I guess if I lest CT tomoreow I could get to Woodburn in time for the races?
Working on the logistics, getting to Joliet for the Races there. That's
not EVen CLOSE to the Left Coast.
Seeya
Bob
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: EV Charging station, Hystarical Comments
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: EV Charging station
> >
> >
> > > Neato, but how many batteries can take 400 amp charge rates?
> > > OK, these nanoelectrode lithium batteries could, if they were really
> > > huge. But currently they're pretty much Unobtanium for EVs.
> > >
> > > Danny
> > >
> >
> > HI EVerybody;
> >
> > I could take 400 amps to fill up the Rabbit!!Set up those charge
> > stations EVery 50 miles or so on the Interstates! Please! Yeah my 2
ought
> > cables would warm up a tad, but I can do 400 amp launches any time I
want,
> > so cable-age isn't an issue. But you wouldn't be doing 400 amps very
long
> to
> > chargitup. 10 -15 minutes, to get 80 percent that you can cram intio a
led
> > acid battery. I mean IF I could, or did pull, 400 amps for 10-15 minutes
> in
> > an extreame case, loooong hill climb, or switching out locomotives at
> > Amtrak. Battery would be pretty tired, anyhow.Hell! Bob Aronson was
> cramming
> > 200-250 amps back into the Mars 2 and Electric Hornets we did 'way back
in
> > the late 60's when gas was 23 sense a gal! With an International
Rectifyer
> > power supply , about the size of a portable typewriter, you old farts,
> like
> > me, remenber those? He used a 240 volt 3 phaze power supply. His claim
to
> > fame, well justifyed, was he could chargitup in an hour. If ya babysat
the
> > power supply box so it didn't FRY the batteries! But you could do the 80
> > percent thing pretty quick.
> >
> > The EFP Investor gig was for Bob to drive the EV out to the Detoilet
> > Airport and pick the guy up, 25-30 mile OW trip, take him to lunch on
the
> > way back, head back to EFP World Headquarters, on Eight Mile Road,do
show
> > an' tell, plugitin, shop tour, meet the gang, us. Plane time,;run the
guy
> > back to the Airport. Hey! This was very impressive back in the 60's when
> > golfcarts, not EVen NEV's were EV's to Joe Sixpack. Times they are a
> > changin' but EVen today, Bob's Show and Tell would be impressive. But
Tom
> > Gage could one up Bob A.,with the T Zero, as I'm sure Tom has picked up
> > potential customers with the T Zero at the Airport of choice in SO Cal?
I
> > feel you guyz shaking your head, but back then, this was heady stuff,
and
> a
> > part of EV history. Being wafted along the freeway at 60-65 in an EV was
> > something, back then.EVen though it was a 4200 lb Renault R -10, later
> > upgrades to a AMC Hornet Station wagon, called the Sportabout.THAT was
> about
> > our best conversion rig, sporting 144 volt pack of Tri Polar Cobault Led
> > Acids. Actually threy were in that taller sweeper battery size ones you
> see
> > at the battery place when ya pick up your T 105's. Now EVerybody ELSE
was
> > playing around with those awful Aircraft starter gennys at a wimpy 48
> volts,
> > doing 40 or maybe 50 with a tailwind? The Hornet could do 90MPH easily.
> But
> > then again you had Bob Mc Kee building stuff that would be up to date
> today,
> > but nobody noticed or cared?Sigh! If Bob and Bob had gotten together on
> the
> > , say, Sundancer, history may have played out differently and Electric
> Fuel
> > Propulsion would be a household name like Ford or Edison?? Bob had a
young
> > upstart fellow, Wally Rippel, working on an AC design for a controller
> motor
> > and charger in one setup. Wally went on to fame with Alan Coconi, and
> those
> > guys with AC propulsion, but it all started on 8 mile Rd in Detroit, WAY
> > back them. If Bob coulda pulled all the loose ends together?Gas @24
sence
> a
> > gal, who Cares!Zooom, go like hell up Woodward Ave!Loads of tire smoke
up
> > there. You Detoilet guyz remember those daze!Wally? Got your Ears
on?!Out
> > there in EV Land. Say "Hi"
> >
> > So I'll need to cable in a Anderson red power plug 'dem BIG ones,
like
> > ya see on forklift batteries disconnect, a couple of leads to my 120
volt
> > connections. mount the plug, say , under the front bumper, and show up
at
> > yur shop<g>!?
> >
> > > Joe Smalley wrote:
> > >
> > > >Rich has a charger designed for 400 Amps and it has been demonstrated
> > into
> > > >resistors. He does not have big enough wires in any battery packs to
> > charge
> > > >a battery. IIRC the wires are expected soon.
> >
> > > > Wow! Hellova garage heater!
> >
> > > >You do not want to use taps. It seriously unbalances the battery pack
> and
> > it
> > > >is tough to get the pack back into balance.
> > > >
> > Hammer it back with selective battery charging!
> >
> > > >The inductor is about the size of a golf car tire.
> >
> > > >Would have to be!!Darn reasonable size!
> >
> > My two Farads wiorth
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PotBox:
The standard potbox is a little weak, I think adding a spring to help
the throttle close is necessary, but I also wonder if it puts a side
load on the pot that it wasn't designed for. Especially if the arm hits
the stop. The reaction force may damage that first section of the pot.
Is the shaft on it's own bearings? or are we just using the pot's shaft?
I mounted down and routed wires away from potential noise sources and
the hammering and surgeing mostly went away. While I was out I did a
0-45 test for the curious. (0-60 requires finding a spot labeled 60 that
you can start at a stop at. :-( )
Acceleration:
I really need someone else with the stop watch but it looks like about
6.5 seconds and i need to shift at that point. Not great(by 300zx
sportcar standards), but ok. I checked against the DAQ collection and
there were exactly 6.4 seconds worth of data with some amps to it.
This little 0-45 resulted in 27.5 to 38.42C(81.5 to 101F) on the heat
sink most of this rise is after the acceleration.
it takes 1.3 seconds to ramp up to 1005A (can this be adjusted or is it
a function of the motor?)
It then oscillates between 905A and 1005A about once pre second(I assume
this is normal current limit)
At the end of the test at about 45mph the motor voltage is almost at
limit and the current has begun to drop, confirming that it is time to
shift.
What surprises me the most is how duty cycle climbs to keep up with
voltage rise in motor. At stall and low speeds it hits current limit
with a very small duty cycle. This also shows me how much motor the
zilla can push at the start I have never seen over 51% duty(0x33) This
should mean 2 motors of this size in series is about it for the first
2.9 seconds then shift to parallel.
If this is a correct interpretation, then the zilla is a good way to
measure a motor :-)
I am really likeing this hairball code.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Stefan Peters wrote:
>> > Why would someone need a custom two speed?
>>
>> Because the two speeds for an EV would be quite wide apart, like 2:1 or
>> more. The two-speed overdrives and gearboxes for most ICEs usually have
>> fairly close ratios.
>>
>
> Considering a custom-made one might run several thousand dollars, it
> would probably be cheaper to use an AC drive connected to the
> differential, as well as more efficient and faster to get done.
Except that I was talking about a chain drive transmission and "custom" in
this case meant DIY.
Two sprockets, one with a sprague (one way) clutch and the other with a
Centrifugal clutch. The sprague side is used at low speeds and as the
RPMs come up the centrifugal clutch engages a lower ratio (higher speed)
setup.
This has been done, successfully before. While I don't know exact prices
for it, I doubt it would cost much more than a couple hundred dollars.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
I'm gunna swipe the good Drs, note here, to ask, anybody ELSE in the
Least Coast land gunna do the NYC showing of Who Killed the Electric car? I
bought my ticket on line and will go down by train, electric,of course! to
NYC, HowEVer if anybody else buddied up to go I might drive down, from CT,
This is for the 930 showing on the second.Welcome to thw 13 bux MOVIE
ticket!But this isn't Kansis anymore.Seeya there. Dave Goldstein is making
the trek from DC.Anybody else?
Seeya?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:07 PM
Subject: Review of Who Killed the Electric Car? on Living on Earth
> Thought you might be interested. No new info in the review.
>
> http://www.loe.org/shows/shows.htm?programID=06-P13-00017
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:38, Dave Cover wrote:
If Fox news is the only American programming you get, my condolences.
The press here gets lots of
abuse for bias and Fox earns that reputation every day. There are
reputable news services here,
more than one, you just have to be careful. Buyer beware.
Danged if you do, danged if you don't.
GEM is the only production EV for consumers for sale in the US.
Hard to do a news story on what does not exist - though that obviously
doesn't stand in the way of a lot of news organizations.
Point is, though, that NEVs are gaining a fair amount of market here in
the US, filling a niche that a car would otherwise fill, so people
*should* be happy about it.
One thing I wonder, though, is why, in Europe, with fuel prices 3 to
four times that in the US, with no domination by the big 3 (well, 2 and
a half, really) or the oil companies or Walmart, with higher population
densities and shorter distances, a larger "Green" movement, no macho
advertising, aren't there significantly more EV offerings? Same for
Japan, or China, or any other market with different histories and
economics.
The next few decent ev offerings will get lots of news - I remember the
Impact and EV1 getting plenty of coverage - and then they won't be news
anymore, because it will be unexceptional.
John F. Norton
via T-Mobile Sidekick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 02:47:31 -0700 (PDT), Ray Wong
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Forgot to mention that the high end Comet clutches are quite good, such as the
>4 Pro dirver which is rated to 200hp. The 102 -108 clutches are around
>100-150hp.
>
> http://www.hoffcocomet.com/comet/oem-torque-converters.asp#94
Thanks. Lots o reading to do.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
cleaning an EVT motor:
http://www.7gen.com/electric-fuel-cell-and-alternative-fuel-vehicles/my-ev-projects/cleaning-an-evt-hub-motor?q=electric-fuel-cell-and-alternative-fuel-vehicles/my-ev-projects/cleaning-an-evt-hub-motor
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron NMLUG-EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: e-scooters
> On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 13:14 -0700, Rodriguez, Jennifer wrote:
> > Aaron,
> >
> > I have a 2002 EVT 4000e. I love it! ...
>
> > ... dealer (Todd Kollin at
> > www.electricmotorsport.com) has been extremely helpful...
>
> > ... because of the potential for the
> > motor to wear out, I would be sorely tempted to look into an e-max.
>
> I fear the e-max because it is only in its second
> production year (i think).
> Bugs are still likely.
>
> Both of these are hub-motors.
> The thing that scares me about hub-motors is that
> they would need to be sealed to keep out water... right?
> However, that makes it hard to radiate heat.
> Especially if they are Permanent-magnet rotors, with the
> windings on the stator. There would be an air-gap
> between the heat source and potential heat-radiator
> surfaces.
>
> Glad to hear you had trouble with brush dust, and not
> heat. Not so glad that the solution to the hub-dust
> problem was a new motor. Dust in a sealed motor
> seems like trouble waiting to happen.
>
> Anyone care to comment on how these hub-motors are laid out?
>
> aaron
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steven Ciciora wrote:
Hello!
I'm in a similar situation as you were (I assume)
and Mark was: I'd like to make a Zilla Data Acq.
system, but I currently don't have access to my zilla
(I will in about 1.5 weeks). Any chance do you have a
sample DAQ4 mode data file you wouldn't mind sending
me?
All of John Wayland's race captures are posted on his website:
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/data/
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:35:15 -0600, Aaron NMLUG-EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Both of these are hub-motors.
>The thing that scares me about hub-motors is that
>they would need to be sealed to keep out water... right?
Not necessarily. If the windings are properly impregnated, if the
design is brushless and if the rotor is coated/made of non-corrodible
materials then the motor will be able to run literally submerged. It's
not all that unusual at industrial trade shows to see a vendor
operating his waterproof motor in an aquarium full of water.
In many industrial environments such as sanitary wash-down equipment
in food processing plants where the motor will be subjected to harsh
chemicals, hot water and steam, to make the motor itself water-proof
rather than trying to keep the frame sealed hermetically.
>However, that makes it hard to radiate heat.
>Especially if they are Permanent-magnet rotors, with the
>windings on the stator. There would be an air-gap
>between the heat source and potential heat-radiator
>surfaces.
The inverted or cup-type motor does present more thermal design
challenges but these are just challenges and not insurmountable
obstacles. For example, look at how large a 1kw hub motor is compared
to a 1kw (~1hp) conventional motor. Part of that is because the motor
is a low speed, high torque design but the other part is heat
management.
For a commercial product (ChiComs excepted since they'll knock off and
sell anything.) and all else being equal, I have to assume that the
manufacturer has done his homework and the product will work as
advertised. That is overwhelmingly the case, the popular fad of
cynicism notwithstanding.
>Anyone care to comment on how these hub-motors are laid out?
I don't have any URLs at hand but I've seen many photos and drawings
of hub motors on the net. You might try googling.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any links to a 4 wheel vehicle that is powered by 2 eteks especially
the brushless replacement ETEK ??
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nikki,
Fret not. Due to the high (relative to U.S. drivers) price of fuel lately,
EV articles are popping up on the larger media companies like daiseys. I
recently saw 2 video articles, one on a local news channel and one on Fox
news about highway capable EV's.
Of course, it's also up to us to write our legislators and news
organizations to bring EV's to the public eye, and not just how they work
and what their capabilities are, but also how to effectively fit them into
our lifestyle and what personal changes are needed in order to make them
convenient and effective.
I've encountered an increasingly receptive audience when I drive. People are
asking me more and more questions. I always manage to overcome the negative
aspects like limited range by explaining their proper place in life (i.e.
commuting and local errand-running).
I think I'm wandering a bit off-topic here, so to bring it back to a more
technical standpoint, I'll also say that my 25 year-old ex-Postal truck is
probably one of the most primative, and raw examples of an electric vehicle.
The technology is so much better these days and the ability to build an
affordable, comfortable, practical EV definitely exists in the here and now
and resources like the internet make it possible for nearly anyone with the
willpower and 2 coins to rub together to build their own.
Rich A.
'81 Comuta-Van
Maryland
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
From: nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Yet another rubbish piece of EV publicity...
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:56:53 +0100
Before anyone moans we're in the UK so the choice of American
programming we get is very small. Unfortunately FOX news is one of
the only channels we get.
This morning (well, just now) they did a "passing article" on the
PNEV GEM 2 seater. It lasted approximately 10 seconds and featured
the words "It does 25 mph top speed".
I do wish someone would do an article on an EV capable of highway
motoring... The GEM 2 seater is great as a car in the lower states in
urban areas. But that's about it.
Nikki
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow. I opened up a can of worms eh? :)
I know the coverage on FOX is terrible. We have certain news
channels here which are just as bad;)
The lack of decent EVs in the states is sad. Obviously the having
the GEM is better than not, but yes, we do seem to have more
production EVs in Europe (or at least work on concepts).
Our fuel prices have just topped £1 a litre in some gas stations.
The really scary thing however is the move in the UK towards larger
and larger cars. More and more cars are being sold which don't
actually fit in the UK parking lot spaces! Of course, the bigger the
car the higher the fuel consumption and the worst things get!
We do have some fantastic micro cars in the UK which are either very
small in engine size or completely electric. Sadly though people who
drive them are viewed as a bit eccentric still. I'm hoping that the
smart EV conversion catches on. Smart cars have really caught the
imagination of town dwellers and second-car households all over the
UK. But as for the lack of EVs... I think the social concience is
still plauged by images of the slow milk-carts we are so famous for ;)
Of course, with LPG in the UK it does seem that more people are
getting used to the idea of alternative fuels. Certainly around
Bristol, where I live, there are a few gas stations selling LPG. Of
course, we're still burning rubbish into the atmosphere but more and
more people are converting to it. Perhaps it'll be a short stop to
Electric.
We can but hope, and educate.
On Apr 30, 2006, at 5:13 PM, John Norton wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:38, Dave Cover wrote:
If Fox news is the only American programming you get, my
condolences. The press here gets lots of
abuse for bias and Fox earns that reputation every day. There are
reputable news services here,
more than one, you just have to be careful. Buyer beware.
Danged if you do, danged if you don't.
GEM is the only production EV for consumers for sale in the US.
Hard to do a news story on what does not exist - though that
obviously doesn't stand in the way of a lot of news organizations.
Point is, though, that NEVs are gaining a fair amount of market
here in the US, filling a niche that a car would otherwise fill, so
people *should* be happy about it.
One thing I wonder, though, is why, in Europe, with fuel prices 3
to four times that in the US, with no domination by the big 3
(well, 2 and a half, really) or the oil companies or Walmart, with
higher population densities and shorter distances, a larger "Green"
movement, no macho advertising, aren't there significantly more EV
offerings? Same for Japan, or China, or any other market with
different histories and economics.
The next few decent ev offerings will get lots of news - I remember
the Impact and EV1 getting plenty of coverage - and then they won't
be news anymore, because it will be unexceptional.
John F. Norton
via T-Mobile Sidekick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Well,
1. I was trying to spec out a really cheap solution
2. I was not aware o the GearVendors over/underdrive
3. 1.28:1 isn't a very low ratio for "low" gear.
As for 1: no, it's not exactly cheap, just a thought I had for allowing
a smaller motor (7.5" or 8") motor to use direct drive with off the
shelf parts.
And for 2: if you have (let's say) 60MPH @ 3000RPM in high gear, then
you get 45MPH @ 3000RPM in low gear. This also places you at 15MPH @
1000RPM, and 30MPH & 2000RPM. Otherwise, if you mount the motor straight
to the driveshaft, you'd be at 1500RPM @ 30MPH.
My thought was that 1.28 would be just enough to get in-town driving up
into a better RPM range, while still allowing good efficiency on the
freeway. Plus it can handle gobs of torque (1200 ft/lbs I believe)
reliably. Install it and forget it.
--- End Message ---
