EV Digest 5429
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Tire Pressure
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: strange problem
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) $20 Video
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: strange problem
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Charging station
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV Charging station, Hystarical Comments
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Question about attaching Curtis 1221c to heatsink
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Is there anyone in the southwest of the UK???
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Is there anyone in the southwest of the UK???
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Is there anyone in the southwest of the UK???
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Yet another rubbish piece of EV publicity...
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: e-scooters
by Aaron NMLUG-EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Yet another rubbish piece of EV publicity...
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Pete Sieger drives electric
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The max load and max pessure are NOT a single data point on a tire, this
much I was able to find
If a tires says SL(standard load) then the max load mentioned is at 35
psi for 100% duty. It must be derated after that.
The xl tires have the same linerity they are just tested to a higher
pressure(44)
I will try this deflection methd and see what comes of it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
By potential loose connection I am talking about maybe the key wire or
the pot box wire, but they looked ok.
By hammering, I thought I had a bad U-joint at first but it is more like
the bucking problem i had when I tried first gear. only smaller time
period, Sure the tranny rocks, but it is do to power jabbing on/more on.
When i hold the throttle really steady there are still fractional second
bursts where the rpm kicks up a little
I have felt something like this with an ICE that had a couple of plug
wires just resting on the changed plugs or a loos injector harness. same
kind of feel ("chuggles" and "surge")
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
What's it like, what's it contain? What's a synopsis of it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ray Wong wrote:
> I think you need to do a bit more planning regarding the CVT. I have
> done a bunch of testing of CVTs prior to making my choices for the EZE
> Sports bike.
Thank you, Ray. Yes, I'm sure a great deal of planning and
experimentation will be needed. At this stage, this is more of a thought
project. Your comments are exactly what is needed to help "zero in" on
whether a CVT is a practical option, and which models to try first.
> You will likely have a problem balancing the load on any setup with
> 2 independent CVTs.
I would guess that this just requires that the two CVTs need to be the
torque-sensing type, and not strictly controlled by rpm.
If the CVTs were strictly rpm-sensing, the two motors could be wired in
series; this would force them to run at the same *torque*, and their
rpms would vary. This might cause each CVT to shift to attempt to keep
each motor's rpm about the same (thus each delivering about the same
horsepower).
> The 8hp torq-a-verter is grossly inadequate for the Etek. I have a
> Tav-2 as one of my test CVT. The belt is much too small for even my
> 400 lb motorcycle with one etek.
Not surprising. I didn't see any engineering data on Comet's website,
and so don't know at what torque/speed their HP ratings apply. The Etek
is rated something like 15hp for a few seconds, so I suspected something
bigger is needed. The question is of course *how much* bigger.
> If you are looking at Comet products, I would recommend the 500/858
> clutch or the 700 series. These are rated at 25hp and use a .92 to
> 1.0" kevlar belt. I am using the Comet 500/858 on the EZE.
Ok; that sounds like the place to start.
> Using a CVT designed for a gas engine presents some tuning problems.
> Engagement speed is normally set on a Comet CVT at around 2400rpm.
> With an electric motor, you want to engage at almost 0 rpm which is
> outside the design spec of the clutch but can be done. It took many
> hours of testing to get a reasonable setup for driver springs,
> driver weights, driven springs, belt diameter etc.
Would you be willing to consult with anyone trying to follow in your
footsteps, to get a similar setup working?
> I suggest getting a copy of Olav Aaen's book "Clutch Tuning Handbook".
> It should be available at most snowmobile dealer that sell high
> performance snowmobile parts.
Thanks; I'll look for it.
Another question: Are you using the CVT for direct motor-to-wheel
reduction, or a 2nd step gear or chain reduction. Bob McKee couldn't get
a large enough diameter driven pulley, and so used a gear reducer in
each wheel. This cost him some efficiency. He said he would like to have
tried a 1-step reduction, with a larger fixed pulley on the axles, an
idler on a swing arm, and the variable pulley on the motor.
> Brushed Eteks are getting harder to find and have been going up in
> price.
Others commented on this as well. I wonder why? Is B&S discontinuing it?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
First reaction is that the potbox signal is not constant.
Can you check with a voltmeter on the variable output?
My vehicle also bucks when I push the accelerator too far down,
when this happens I see the loggings going to maximum current
or the battery voltage going to the lower cutout voltage, so
apparently the controller is responding too abrupt on the fault
situation and cutting power instead of limiting it at the max.
configured value.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:02 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: strange problem
By potential loose connection I am talking about maybe the key wire or
the pot box wire, but they looked ok.
By hammering, I thought I had a bad U-joint at first but it is more like
the bucking problem i had when I tried first gear. only smaller time
period, Sure the tranny rocks, but it is do to power jabbing on/more on.
When i hold the throttle really steady there are still fractional second
bursts where the rpm kicks up a little
I have felt something like this with an ICE that had a couple of plug
wires just resting on the changed plugs or a loos injector harness. same
kind of feel ("chuggles" and "surge")
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have used CVTs on my snowmobiles and quads for many years. I have seen them
work well on +200hp snowmobiles.
The Comet CVT I am using with the EZE is a lower cost basic model, nothing
fancy. I had several larger CVT from my snowmobiles (100hp range) but thought
they were overkill. In hindsight, the 100hp clutches were needed for the twin
Etek drive system. I have two Eteks coupled to the drive clutch. The more
power, the bigger the drive belts, the bigger the clutches. The 25hp models
work fine for a single Etek.
The torsion springs and torque feedback ramps have limited availabilty in the
low cost CVTs. When you get high performance racing clutches, they have ramps
by 1 degree increments and many springs. Not cheap. It could be interesting
to see how consistent the lower cost clutches are made. The belts on two
clutches will not wear the same so there may be great sync problems as the
clutches get used.
You will likely need a secondary reduction of about 3:1 if you have full size
wheels. Most CVT's have a 1:1 ratio at high speed so you will need to reduce
the Etek 3000 to 4000 rpm down to about 1000 rpm max. A 24inch wheel at 1000
rpm will give you about 72mph.
EZESPORT
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ray Wong wrote:
> I think you need to do a bit more planning regarding the CVT. I have
> done a bunch of testing of CVTs prior to making my choices for the EZE
> Sports bike.
Thank you, Ray. Yes, I'm sure a great deal of planning and
experimentation will be needed. At this stage, this is more of a thought
project. Your comments are exactly what is needed to help "zero in" on
whether a CVT is a practical option, and which models to try first.
> You will likely have a problem balancing the load on any setup with
> 2 independent CVTs.
I would guess that this just requires that the two CVTs need to be the
torque-sensing type, and not strictly controlled by rpm.
If the CVTs were strictly rpm-sensing, the two motors could be wired in
series; this would force them to run at the same *torque*, and their
rpms would vary. This might cause each CVT to shift to attempt to keep
each motor's rpm about the same (thus each delivering about the same
horsepower).
> The 8hp torq-a-verter is grossly inadequate for the Etek. I have a
> Tav-2 as one of my test CVT. The belt is much too small for even my
> 400 lb motorcycle with one etek.
Not surprising. I didn't see any engineering data on Comet's website,
and so don't know at what torque/speed their HP ratings apply. The Etek
is rated something like 15hp for a few seconds, so I suspected something
bigger is needed. The question is of course *how much* bigger.
> If you are looking at Comet products, I would recommend the 500/858
> clutch or the 700 series. These are rated at 25hp and use a .92 to
> 1.0" kevlar belt. I am using the Comet 500/858 on the EZE.
Ok; that sounds like the place to start.
> Using a CVT designed for a gas engine presents some tuning problems.
> Engagement speed is normally set on a Comet CVT at around 2400rpm.
> With an electric motor, you want to engage at almost 0 rpm which is
> outside the design spec of the clutch but can be done. It took many
> hours of testing to get a reasonable setup for driver springs,
> driver weights, driven springs, belt diameter etc.
Would you be willing to consult with anyone trying to follow in your
footsteps, to get a similar setup working?
> I suggest getting a copy of Olav Aaen's book "Clutch Tuning Handbook".
> It should be available at most snowmobile dealer that sell high
> performance snowmobile parts.
Thanks; I'll look for it.
Another question: Are you using the CVT for direct motor-to-wheel
reduction, or a 2nd step gear or chain reduction. Bob McKee couldn't get
a large enough diameter driven pulley, and so used a gear reducer in
each wheel. This cost him some efficiency. He said he would like to have
tried a 1-step reduction, with a larger fixed pulley on the axles, an
idler on a swing arm, and the variable pulley on the motor.
> Brushed Eteks are getting harder to find and have been going up in
> price.
Others commented on this as well. I wonder why? Is B&S discontinuing it?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you point to some high performance racing CVTs? I'm sitting here
kicking around the idea of two ETEKs and a CVT on my CitiCar. I bet
that would really kick butt! A pointer or two to sources of used
equipment would be nice too.
Thanks,
John
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:37:59 -0700 (PDT), Ray Wong
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I have used CVTs on my snowmobiles and quads for many years. I have seen them
>work well on +200hp snowmobiles.
>
> The Comet CVT I am using with the EZE is a lower cost basic model, nothing
> fancy. I had several larger CVT from my snowmobiles (100hp range) but
> thought they were overkill. In hindsight, the 100hp clutches were needed for
> the twin Etek drive system. I have two Eteks coupled to the drive clutch.
> The more power, the bigger the drive belts, the bigger the clutches. The
> 25hp models work fine for a single Etek.
>
> The torsion springs and torque feedback ramps have limited availabilty in
> the low cost CVTs. When you get high performance racing clutches, they have
> ramps by 1 degree increments and many springs. Not cheap. It could be
> interesting to see how consistent the lower cost clutches are made. The
> belts on two clutches will not wear the same so there may be great sync
> problems as the clutches get used.
>
> You will likely need a secondary reduction of about 3:1 if you have full
> size wheels. Most CVT's have a 1:1 ratio at high speed so you will need to
> reduce the Etek 3000 to 4000 rpm down to about 1000 rpm max. A 24inch wheel
> at 1000 rpm will give you about 72mph.
>
> EZESPORT
>
>
>Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ray Wong wrote:
>> I think you need to do a bit more planning regarding the CVT. I have
>> done a bunch of testing of CVTs prior to making my choices for the EZE
>> Sports bike.
>
>Thank you, Ray. Yes, I'm sure a great deal of planning and
>experimentation will be needed. At this stage, this is more of a thought
>project. Your comments are exactly what is needed to help "zero in" on
>whether a CVT is a practical option, and which models to try first.
>
>> You will likely have a problem balancing the load on any setup with
>> 2 independent CVTs.
>
>I would guess that this just requires that the two CVTs need to be the
>torque-sensing type, and not strictly controlled by rpm.
>
>If the CVTs were strictly rpm-sensing, the two motors could be wired in
>series; this would force them to run at the same *torque*, and their
>rpms would vary. This might cause each CVT to shift to attempt to keep
>each motor's rpm about the same (thus each delivering about the same
>horsepower).
>
>> The 8hp torq-a-verter is grossly inadequate for the Etek. I have a
>> Tav-2 as one of my test CVT. The belt is much too small for even my
>> 400 lb motorcycle with one etek.
>
>Not surprising. I didn't see any engineering data on Comet's website,
>and so don't know at what torque/speed their HP ratings apply. The Etek
>is rated something like 15hp for a few seconds, so I suspected something
>bigger is needed. The question is of course *how much* bigger.
>
>> If you are looking at Comet products, I would recommend the 500/858
>> clutch or the 700 series. These are rated at 25hp and use a .92 to
>> 1.0" kevlar belt. I am using the Comet 500/858 on the EZE.
>
>Ok; that sounds like the place to start.
>
>> Using a CVT designed for a gas engine presents some tuning problems.
>> Engagement speed is normally set on a Comet CVT at around 2400rpm.
>> With an electric motor, you want to engage at almost 0 rpm which is
>> outside the design spec of the clutch but can be done. It took many
>> hours of testing to get a reasonable setup for driver springs,
>> driver weights, driven springs, belt diameter etc.
>
>Would you be willing to consult with anyone trying to follow in your
>footsteps, to get a similar setup working?
>
>> I suggest getting a copy of Olav Aaen's book "Clutch Tuning Handbook".
>> It should be available at most snowmobile dealer that sell high
>> performance snowmobile parts.
>
>Thanks; I'll look for it.
>
>Another question: Are you using the CVT for direct motor-to-wheel
>reduction, or a 2nd step gear or chain reduction. Bob McKee couldn't get
>a large enough diameter driven pulley, and so used a gear reducer in
>each wheel. This cost him some efficiency. He said he would like to have
>tried a 1-step reduction, with a larger fixed pulley on the axles, an
>idler on a swing arm, and the variable pulley on the motor.
>
>> Brushed Eteks are getting harder to find and have been going up in
>> price.
>
>Others commented on this as well. I wonder why? Is B&S discontinuing it?
>--
>Ring the bells that still can ring
>Forget the perfect offering
>There is a crack in everything
>That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I look at is this way:
1. Most starting batteries are approved for an application with an
alternator in the range of 60 to 200 amps. Why do they recommend less than a
10 amp maximum charger? Answer: the third world chargers (transformer &
rectifier & circuit breaker) rated for 10 amps typically take the battery
well over 15 Volts. My 10 Amp TWC takes a flooded battery to about 15.5
Volts with profuse gassing. In a flooded battery, you can add water. AGM
batteries die an early death. A couple years ago I forgot to unhook my TWC
from an AGM Lawn tractor battery and it ran overnight (or maybe a few more).
When I retested the battery it was down to less than 10%. I believe I dried
it out. I believe the manufacturers are being careful about so much of the
old technology being in use. They do not seem to want to rewrite their
instructions to differentiate the new technology from the old technology.
2. When I had regen on my car, I could pull 600 amps from the batteries or
put 600 amps back in when the pack was less than 90% charged. As long as the
cell voltage does not go over 2.5 volts, I believe there is no damage.
3. When charging at high current for a long period of time, wiring and
corrosion issues can cause enough heat to cause a failure. When you drive
your car, you only draw 400 amps for less than a minute (unless you have a
really long hill). When you charge at 400 amps, the current will be applied
for several minutes on a small pack. If you have a really large low voltage
pack, you could be on charge for an hour or two. The heat in the wiring and
connectors would then be higher than when you are driving. It is good
practice to periodically measure the temperature of all your connections to
see if any are getting hot. An infrared pyrometer is a pretty good tool for
doing this safely although shiny surfaces can cause some significant error
in the readings.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: EV Charging station
> On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:48:22 -0500, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Danny Miller wrote:
> >
> >> Neato, but how many batteries can take 400 amp charge rates?
> >
> >Essentially any battery used in a road-going EV. Any battery that can
> >deliver 400 amps can *charge* at 400 amps. The key point is that you can
> >only apply this kind of charging current when the cells are well away
> >from "full".
>
> Yes, absolutely! The battery chemistry is symmetrical. Whatever rate
> one can take it out, one can put it back in.
>
> That's the basis of my Cordless Battery Charger, one hour charger.
> It'll crank 250 amps into a 12 or 24 volt battery during the bulk
> stage. (Unfortunately that doesn't last too long with a golf cart
> battery because of the relatively high internal resistance - up to 50%
> charge or thereabouts.)
>
> The key is to keep the voltage below the bulk/absorption transition
> voltage. Different battery makers quote different voltages so it's a
> good idea to check before cramming :-)
>
> This "gotta charge slow" is one of the great myths of Pb batteries
> that so many manufacturers continue to spread. I understand why they
> do - cramming in high current with a dumb charger that will exceed the
> bulk/absorption voltage is a sure way to kill a battery, sometimes in
> one charge. But smart chargers are everywhere these days - even
> Wallyworld - so it's time to dispel that myth.
>
> I've had a devil of a time doing that in the RV world. For those who
> have listened (and either bought one of my CBCs or a medium speed
> charger such as the Iota or Intellipower), the result has been very
> satisfactory - charging the house pack in an hour or just a little
> more.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob;
The 400 amp charger exceeds the safe working current of the Anderson 350
connectors. We put Anderson 700 connectors on the 400 amp charger.
If Rich knows when you will arrive, he could have an adapter made to fit
your car. He would need to remember to keep the amps down and keep checking
the connector temperatures.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: EV Charging station, Hystarical Comments
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: EV Charging station
>
>
> > Neato, but how many batteries can take 400 amp charge rates?
> > OK, these nanoelectrode lithium batteries could, if they were really
> > huge. But currently they're pretty much Unobtanium for EVs.
> >
> > Danny
> >
>
> HI EVerybody;
>
> I could take 400 amps to fill up the Rabbit!!Set up those charge
> stations EVery 50 miles or so on the Interstates! Please! Yeah my 2 ought
> cables would warm up a tad, but I can do 400 amp launches any time I want,
> so cable-age isn't an issue. But you wouldn't be doing 400 amps very long
to
> chargitup. 10 -15 minutes, to get 80 percent that you can cram intio a led
> acid battery. I mean IF I could, or did pull, 400 amps for 10-15 minutes
in
> an extreame case, loooong hill climb, or switching out locomotives at
> Amtrak. Battery would be pretty tired, anyhow.Hell! Bob Aronson was
cramming
> 200-250 amps back into the Mars 2 and Electric Hornets we did 'way back in
> the late 60's when gas was 23 sense a gal! With an International Rectifyer
> power supply , about the size of a portable typewriter, you old farts,
like
> me, remenber those? He used a 240 volt 3 phaze power supply. His claim to
> fame, well justifyed, was he could chargitup in an hour. If ya babysat the
> power supply box so it didn't FRY the batteries! But you could do the 80
> percent thing pretty quick.
>
> The EFP Investor gig was for Bob to drive the EV out to the Detoilet
> Airport and pick the guy up, 25-30 mile OW trip, take him to lunch on the
> way back, head back to EFP World Headquarters, on Eight Mile Road,do show
> an' tell, plugitin, shop tour, meet the gang, us. Plane time,;run the guy
> back to the Airport. Hey! This was very impressive back in the 60's when
> golfcarts, not EVen NEV's were EV's to Joe Sixpack. Times they are a
> changin' but EVen today, Bob's Show and Tell would be impressive. But Tom
> Gage could one up Bob A.,with the T Zero, as I'm sure Tom has picked up
> potential customers with the T Zero at the Airport of choice in SO Cal? I
> feel you guyz shaking your head, but back then, this was heady stuff, and
a
> part of EV history. Being wafted along the freeway at 60-65 in an EV was
> something, back then.EVen though it was a 4200 lb Renault R -10, later
> upgrades to a AMC Hornet Station wagon, called the Sportabout.THAT was
about
> our best conversion rig, sporting 144 volt pack of Tri Polar Cobault Led
> Acids. Actually threy were in that taller sweeper battery size ones you
see
> at the battery place when ya pick up your T 105's. Now EVerybody ELSE was
> playing around with those awful Aircraft starter gennys at a wimpy 48
volts,
> doing 40 or maybe 50 with a tailwind? The Hornet could do 90MPH easily.
But
> then again you had Bob Mc Kee building stuff that would be up to date
today,
> but nobody noticed or cared?Sigh! If Bob and Bob had gotten together on
the
> , say, Sundancer, history may have played out differently and Electric
Fuel
> Propulsion would be a household name like Ford or Edison?? Bob had a young
> upstart fellow, Wally Rippel, working on an AC design for a controller
motor
> and charger in one setup. Wally went on to fame with Alan Coconi, and
those
> guys with AC propulsion, but it all started on 8 mile Rd in Detroit, WAY
> back them. If Bob coulda pulled all the loose ends together?Gas @24 sence
a
> gal, who Cares!Zooom, go like hell up Woodward Ave!Loads of tire smoke up
> there. You Detoilet guyz remember those daze!Wally? Got your Ears on?!Out
> there in EV Land. Say "Hi"
>
> So I'll need to cable in a Anderson red power plug 'dem BIG ones, like
> ya see on forklift batteries disconnect, a couple of leads to my 120 volt
> connections. mount the plug, say , under the front bumper, and show up at
> yur shop<g>!?
>
> > Joe Smalley wrote:
> >
> > >Rich has a charger designed for 400 Amps and it has been demonstrated
> into
> > >resistors. He does not have big enough wires in any battery packs to
> charge
> > >a battery. IIRC the wires are expected soon.
>
> > > Wow! Hellova garage heater!
>
> > >You do not want to use taps. It seriously unbalances the battery pack
and
> it
> > >is tough to get the pack back into balance.
> > >
> Hammer it back with selective battery charging!
>
> > >The inductor is about the size of a golf car tire.
>
> > >Would have to be!!Darn reasonable size!
>
> My two Farads wiorth
>
> Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote Thursday, April 27, 2006 1:06 PM:
> Dave Cover wrote:
> > I have a Curtis with a typical popped off end cap, the other
end
> > from the connections.
>
> Mine too. That's common. Nothing holds it in but friction and a
little
> glue. A little heat, vibration, and time; and out it comes!
>
> > The end that's still attached supports the connections. If
you had
> > no concerns for water infiltration
>
> ...then you haven't looked at stuff in a car very much. :-)
Water is
> very common; if not from rain or splash, then from
condensation, fog, or
> high humidity.
>
> > can you drill some holes in the remaining end cap and blow
some
> > cooling air through the controller?
>
> You could; but there are lots of very small spacings inside
with full
> pack voltage between them. Besides water, you'll provide an
entryway for
> dust, bugs, rodent droppings, etc.
Yeah, the water vapor or condensation would be a concern to me.
Maybe the risk of condensation isn't much greater than ambient
air moisture condensing in the case, depending on how leaky the
case is anyways. Bugs and stuff can be stopped pretty well by a
filter, I would think. But really, the way the controller is
designed to get rid of heat is through its baseplate attached
correctly to a heatsink. Keep the heatsink cool and your
controller should be happy.
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A couple of web sites come to mind
www.hitechperformance.com
www.aaenperformance.com
There are a bunch of other ones but I'll have to do some digging to find
their sites.
Might also look at www.supertorquer.com and www.speedwerx.com
Snowtech Magazine reviews a lot of the performance parts for snowmobiles but
only publishes 5 times a year.
EZESPORT
Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Can you point to some high performance racing CVTs? I'm sitting here
kicking around the idea of two ETEKs and a CVT on my CitiCar. I bet
that would really kick butt! A pointer or two to sources of used
equipment would be nice too.
Thanks,
John
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:37:59 -0700 (PDT), Ray Wong
wrote:
>I have used CVTs on my snowmobiles and quads for many years. I have seen them
>work well on +200hp snowmobiles.
>
> The Comet CVT I am using with the EZE is a lower cost basic model, nothing
> fancy. I had several larger CVT from my snowmobiles (100hp range) but thought
> they were overkill. In hindsight, the 100hp clutches were needed for the twin
> Etek drive system. I have two Eteks coupled to the drive clutch. The more
> power, the bigger the drive belts, the bigger the clutches. The 25hp models
> work fine for a single Etek.
>
> The torsion springs and torque feedback ramps have limited availabilty in the
> low cost CVTs. When you get high performance racing clutches, they have ramps
> by 1 degree increments and many springs. Not cheap. It could be interesting
> to see how consistent the lower cost clutches are made. The belts on two
> clutches will not wear the same so there may be great sync problems as the
> clutches get used.
>
> You will likely need a secondary reduction of about 3:1 if you have full size
> wheels. Most CVT's have a 1:1 ratio at high speed so you will need to reduce
> the Etek 3000 to 4000 rpm down to about 1000 rpm max. A 24inch wheel at 1000
> rpm will give you about 72mph.
>
> EZESPORT
>
>
>Lee Hart wrote:
> Ray Wong wrote:
>> I think you need to do a bit more planning regarding the CVT. I have
>> done a bunch of testing of CVTs prior to making my choices for the EZE
>> Sports bike.
>
>Thank you, Ray. Yes, I'm sure a great deal of planning and
>experimentation will be needed. At this stage, this is more of a thought
>project. Your comments are exactly what is needed to help "zero in" on
>whether a CVT is a practical option, and which models to try first.
>
>> You will likely have a problem balancing the load on any setup with
>> 2 independent CVTs.
>
>I would guess that this just requires that the two CVTs need to be the
>torque-sensing type, and not strictly controlled by rpm.
>
>If the CVTs were strictly rpm-sensing, the two motors could be wired in
>series; this would force them to run at the same *torque*, and their
>rpms would vary. This might cause each CVT to shift to attempt to keep
>each motor's rpm about the same (thus each delivering about the same
>horsepower).
>
>> The 8hp torq-a-verter is grossly inadequate for the Etek. I have a
>> Tav-2 as one of my test CVT. The belt is much too small for even my
>> 400 lb motorcycle with one etek.
>
>Not surprising. I didn't see any engineering data on Comet's website,
>and so don't know at what torque/speed their HP ratings apply. The Etek
>is rated something like 15hp for a few seconds, so I suspected something
>bigger is needed. The question is of course *how much* bigger.
>
>> If you are looking at Comet products, I would recommend the 500/858
>> clutch or the 700 series. These are rated at 25hp and use a .92 to
>> 1.0" kevlar belt. I am using the Comet 500/858 on the EZE.
>
>Ok; that sounds like the place to start.
>
>> Using a CVT designed for a gas engine presents some tuning problems.
>> Engagement speed is normally set on a Comet CVT at around 2400rpm.
>> With an electric motor, you want to engage at almost 0 rpm which is
>> outside the design spec of the clutch but can be done. It took many
>> hours of testing to get a reasonable setup for driver springs,
>> driver weights, driven springs, belt diameter etc.
>
>Would you be willing to consult with anyone trying to follow in your
>footsteps, to get a similar setup working?
>
>> I suggest getting a copy of Olav Aaen's book "Clutch Tuning Handbook".
>> It should be available at most snowmobile dealer that sell high
>> performance snowmobile parts.
>
>Thanks; I'll look for it.
>
>Another question: Are you using the CVT for direct motor-to-wheel
>reduction, or a 2nd step gear or chain reduction. Bob McKee couldn't get
>a large enough diameter driven pulley, and so used a gear reducer in
>each wheel. This cost him some efficiency. He said he would like to have
>tried a 1-step reduction, with a larger fixed pulley on the axles, an
>idler on a swing arm, and the variable pulley on the motor.
>
>> Brushed Eteks are getting harder to find and have been going up in
>> price.
>
>Others commented on this as well. I wonder why? Is B&S discontinuing it?
>--
>Ring the bells that still can ring
>Forget the perfect offering
>There is a crack in everything
>That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forgot to mention that the high end Comet clutches are quite good, such as the
4 Pro dirver which is rated to 200hp. The 102 -108 clutches are around
100-150hp.
http://www.hoffcocomet.com/comet/oem-torque-converters.asp#94
Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A couple of web sites come to mind
www.hitechperformance.com
www.aaenperformance.com
There are a bunch of other ones but I'll have to do some digging to find their
sites.
Might also look at www.supertorquer.com and www.speedwerx.com
Snowtech Magazine reviews a lot of the performance parts for snowmobiles but
only publishes 5 times a year.
EZESPORT
Neon John wrote:
Can you point to some high performance racing CVTs? I'm sitting here
kicking around the idea of two ETEKs and a CVT on my CitiCar. I bet
that would really kick butt! A pointer or two to sources of used
equipment would be nice too.
Thanks,
John
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:37:59 -0700 (PDT), Ray Wong
wrote:
>I have used CVTs on my snowmobiles and quads for many years. I have seen them
>work well on +200hp snowmobiles.
>
> The Comet CVT I am using with the EZE is a lower cost basic model, nothing
> fancy. I had several larger CVT from my snowmobiles (100hp range) but thought
> they were overkill. In hindsight, the 100hp clutches were needed for the twin
> Etek drive system. I have two Eteks coupled to the drive clutch. The more
> power, the bigger the drive belts, the bigger the clutches. The 25hp models
> work fine for a single Etek.
>
> The torsion springs and torque feedback ramps have limited availabilty in the
> low cost CVTs. When you get high performance racing clutches, they have ramps
> by 1 degree increments and many springs. Not cheap. It could be interesting
> to see how consistent the lower cost clutches are made. The belts on two
> clutches will not wear the same so there may be great sync problems as the
> clutches get used.
>
> You will likely need a secondary reduction of about 3:1 if you have full size
> wheels. Most CVT's have a 1:1 ratio at high speed so you will need to reduce
> the Etek 3000 to 4000 rpm down to about 1000 rpm max. A 24inch wheel at 1000
> rpm will give you about 72mph.
>
> EZESPORT
>
>
>Lee Hart wrote:
> Ray Wong wrote:
>> I think you need to do a bit more planning regarding the CVT. I have
>> done a bunch of testing of CVTs prior to making my choices for the EZE
>> Sports bike.
>
>Thank you, Ray. Yes, I'm sure a great deal of planning and
>experimentation will be needed. At this stage, this is more of a thought
>project. Your comments are exactly what is needed to help "zero in" on
>whether a CVT is a practical option, and which models to try first.
>
>> You will likely have a problem balancing the load on any setup with
>> 2 independent CVTs.
>
>I would guess that this just requires that the two CVTs need to be the
>torque-sensing type, and not strictly controlled by rpm.
>
>If the CVTs were strictly rpm-sensing, the two motors could be wired in
>series; this would force them to run at the same *torque*, and their
>rpms would vary. This might cause each CVT to shift to attempt to keep
>each motor's rpm about the same (thus each delivering about the same
>horsepower).
>
>> The 8hp torq-a-verter is grossly inadequate for the Etek. I have a
>> Tav-2 as one of my test CVT. The belt is much too small for even my
>> 400 lb motorcycle with one etek.
>
>Not surprising. I didn't see any engineering data on Comet's website,
>and so don't know at what torque/speed their HP ratings apply. The Etek
>is rated something like 15hp for a few seconds, so I suspected something
>bigger is needed. The question is of course *how much* bigger.
>
>> If you are looking at Comet products, I would recommend the 500/858
>> clutch or the 700 series. These are rated at 25hp and use a .92 to
>> 1.0" kevlar belt. I am using the Comet 500/858 on the EZE.
>
>Ok; that sounds like the place to start.
>
>> Using a CVT designed for a gas engine presents some tuning problems.
>> Engagement speed is normally set on a Comet CVT at around 2400rpm.
>> With an electric motor, you want to engage at almost 0 rpm which is
>> outside the design spec of the clutch but can be done. It took many
>> hours of testing to get a reasonable setup for driver springs,
>> driver weights, driven springs, belt diameter etc.
>
>Would you be willing to consult with anyone trying to follow in your
>footsteps, to get a similar setup working?
>
>> I suggest getting a copy of Olav Aaen's book "Clutch Tuning Handbook".
>> It should be available at most snowmobile dealer that sell high
>> performance snowmobile parts.
>
>Thanks; I'll look for it.
>
>Another question: Are you using the CVT for direct motor-to-wheel
>reduction, or a 2nd step gear or chain reduction. Bob McKee couldn't get
>a large enough diameter driven pulley, and so used a gear reducer in
>each wheel. This cost him some efficiency. He said he would like to have
>tried a 1-step reduction, with a larger fixed pulley on the axles, an
>idler on a swing arm, and the variable pulley on the motor.
>
>> Brushed Eteks are getting harder to find and have been going up in
>> price.
>
>Others commented on this as well. I wonder why? Is B&S discontinuing it?
>--
>Ring the bells that still can ring
>Forget the perfect offering
>There is a crack in everything
>That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
---------------------------------
Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo! FareChase
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...who'd be willing to give myself and my partner a spin in their EV?
Obviously we're still in the planning stages of ours and it'd help a
great deal if we could drive someone else's EV to see just what to
expect :)
Regards
Nikki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:43 PM 30/04/06 +0100, you wrote:
...who'd be willing to give myself and my partner a spin in their EV?
Obviously we're still in the planning stages of ours and it'd help a
great deal if we could drive someone else's EV to see just what to
expect :)
Regards
Nikki
Hi Nikki
Richard Bebbington is in South Wales, if that is in range? He has a Mini -
a "pickup", "ute", truck (if that can be applied to a Mini).
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James,
Yes! I'm in Bristol (It really does depend on which part of south
wales I guess!)
Is it up and running now?
Nikki
On Apr 30, 2006, at 1:13 PM, James Massey wrote:
At 12:43 PM 30/04/06 +0100, you wrote:
...who'd be willing to give myself and my partner a spin in their EV?
Obviously we're still in the planning stages of ours and it'd help a
great deal if we could drive someone else's EV to see just what to
expect :)
Regards
Nikki
Hi Nikki
Richard Bebbington is in South Wales, if that is in range? He has a
Mini - a "pickup", "ute", truck (if that can be applied to a Mini).
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before anyone moans we're in the UK so the choice of American
programming we get is very small. Unfortunately FOX news is one of
the only channels we get.
This morning (well, just now) they did a "passing article" on the
PNEV GEM 2 seater. It lasted approximately 10 seconds and featured
the words "It does 25 mph top speed".
I do wish someone would do an article on an EV capable of highway
motoring... The GEM 2 seater is great as a car in the lower states in
urban areas. But that's about it.
Nikki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 13:14 -0700, Rodriguez, Jennifer wrote:
> Aaron,
>
> I have a 2002 EVT 4000e. I love it! ...
> ... dealer (Todd Kollin at
> www.electricmotorsport.com) has been extremely helpful...
> ... because of the potential for the
> motor to wear out, I would be sorely tempted to look into an e-max.
I fear the e-max because it is only in its second
production year (i think).
Bugs are still likely.
Both of these are hub-motors.
The thing that scares me about hub-motors is that
they would need to be sealed to keep out water... right?
However, that makes it hard to radiate heat.
Especially if they are Permanent-magnet rotors, with the
windings on the stator. There would be an air-gap
between the heat source and potential heat-radiator
surfaces.
Glad to hear you had trouble with brush dust, and not
heat. Not so glad that the solution to the hub-dust
problem was a new motor. Dust in a sealed motor
seems like trouble waiting to happen.
Anyone care to comment on how these hub-motors are laid out?
aaron
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If Fox news is the only American programming you get, my condolences. The press
here gets lots of
abuse for bias and Fox earns that reputation every day. There are reputable
news services here,
more than one, you just have to be careful. Buyer beware.
Dave Cover
--- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Before anyone moans we're in the UK so the choice of American
> programming we get is very small. Unfortunately FOX news is one of
> the only channels we get.
>
> This morning (well, just now) they did a "passing article" on the
> PNEV GEM 2 seater. It lasted approximately 10 seconds and featured
> the words "It does 25 mph top speed".
>
> I do wish someone would do an article on an EV capable of highway
> motoring... The GEM 2 seater is great as a car in the lower states in
> urban areas. But that's about it.
>
> Nikki
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the URL to the segments of the show. BTW Pete Sieger has an
Electric Ford Ranger. He even sings songs about electric cars and such. A
real American treasure.
http://www.loe.org/shows/shows.htm?programID=06-P13-00017 LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: Pete Sieger drives electric
LOE today had a review of Who killed the elecrtic car & an interview with
Pete Sieger the folk singer.
http://www.loe.org/
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
