EV Digest 5449
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: steering unit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Article 625 Interlock
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Article 625
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Article 625 Interlock
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Article 625 Interlock
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Small Brushless wheel motor idea
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Article 625 Interlock
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Article 625 Interlock
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Article 625 Interlock
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Article 625 Interlock
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) looking for doner car
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Still blowing fuses
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Logos (was RE: sheilding for zilla wiring)
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Regen question again :-(
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) updated zillaregen circuit suggestion
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: looking for doner car
by Ron Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: looking for doner car
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: updated zillaregen circuit suggestion
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Electric Race Car Article
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Optima battery contest
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: High Voltage Nationals
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) RE: steering unit
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Tribeca Film Fellows: Meet the Next Generation of Filmmakers
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: converting a gas mower to electric
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) RE: Fixing a Mower Conversion
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Fixing a Mower Conversion
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: converting a gas mower to electric
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Paul, I understand now what this thing is.
It won't work for a fellow asked about it - too much
mods required to the normal hydraulic steering system.
It is tried for Toyota Scion project.
Victor
Paul G. wrote:
...
So, basically its an electric power steering assembly. It mounts under
the dash of the Saturn Vue....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
I do not see the requirement for a locking connector in Art 625.
I think you are referring to Interlock:
>625-18. Interlock. Electric vehicle supply equipment shall
>be provided with an interlock that de-energizes the electric
>vehicle connector and its cable whenever the electric connec-
>tor is uncoupled from the electric vehicle.
This interlock is not required to be a mechanical solution,
in fact it is better implemented with electrical signals:
start removing the (non-locking) plug, break the pilot signal
and drop the contactor.
Indeed, it makes sense to have a straight-blade connector that
pulls out without damage when the vehicle rolls/drives away,
when the cord gets pulled or whatever other reason there may
be for mechanical stress.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Article 625 .. face to face .. with that ONE "genius" who
inflicted this "absurdity" on the rest of us .....
AGMs do emit hydrogen under normal operating conditions.
They don't emit nearly as much as flooded batteries, but they do
indeed emit hydrogen. The recombination process is not prefect.
There are Bunsen valves on AGMs. That is why they are also
called Valve-Regulated Lead-Acid (VRLA) batteries. These valves
operate and vent hydrogen even if you very, very gently charge your
AGM batteries.
>>>> "Contacts Made Live" <<<<<
One of the worst phrases in 625 is "contacts made live". The
article requires that all contacts on the plug be covered when it is
removed from the receptacle, if they ever had voltage of any sort.
This makes the connector very expensive needlessly. Even if the
contacts are dead before the connector comes apart, they must be
covered after it is apart. Even if the contacts carry very low
voltage signals, they must be covered.
This is the difference between "live contacts" and "contacts
made live".
It is also very stupid to require a locking connector on a
vehicle that might roll away. If the car rolls away, is towed away,
is hit by another car, or somehow drives away while plugged in,
sparks are going to fly. When the cord breaks or the charger is
ripped off the wall, bare live conductors will be left dangling. The
connector should be required to be NON-LOCKING instead so that
nothing bad happens if the vehicle moves while plugged in.
Bill Dube'
At 09:15 PM 5/4/2006, you wrote:
>Peekay wrote:
>
> > instead of discussing the words and meanings and the
> > motives and the reasons .. will some people group
> > together and find out that ONE guy who inflicted
> > this kind of absurdity on us ?
>
>Before assuming it is complete absurdity, consider such things as
>failure modes, etc.
>
>Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > > The part I love about NEC Art 625 is the page and half devoted to
> > > extracting Hydrogen gas and fumes. 1000s of CFM of airflow are
> > > required... And Well a well designed AGM charger won't vent ANY
> > > Gas...
>
>The CFM requirements are pretty modest until you get to absurd charge
>levels. At 100A of 240VAC input power only 500CFM are required (and
>only required for indoor charging under certain conditions).
>
>What happens to that non-venting AGM when something goes wrong while
>humping 240kW into it? How big is the battery that might be used with
>the higher charge powers that are associated with the higher ventilation
>requirements?
>
>How different are these ventilation requirements from established
>industry standards for the battery rooms used for material handling
>equipment?
>
>There's lots to dislike about Article 625, but that doesn't mean there
>aren't sound reasons for at least some of what it contains.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 10:33:47AM -0700, Rich Rudman wrote:
>> The part I love about NEC Art 625 is the page and half devoted to
>> extracting
>> Hydrogen gas and fumes. 1000s of CFM of airflow are required... And Well
>> a
>> well designed AGM charger won't vent ANY
>> Gas... and any other OEM battery pack is also zero emmission in that
>> aspect.
>
> Is this required for sealed batteries as well?
>
> The install manual with my AVcon has 2 pages of fan installation
> instructions.
> It does say that sealed batteries do not require the fans. Also, it wont
> charge
> a flooded car if it tells you that it's flooded through the avcon digital
> interface.
The problem is with how NEC Art 625 defines "Sealed" batteries. They have
to be hermetically with no possiblility of venting under ANY circumstance.
If they don't meet those criteria, then they aren't considered "sealed"
and all of the rediculous venting requirements come into effect.
I don't think anyone makes a sealed battery that meets Art 625's
definition of "sealed"
> Wasn't this document for the environment where there are 100s of 1000s of
> chargers installed all over the US with grandma plugging them in?
>
> The strange "EV" only cable requirement not withstanding, most of these
> things seem like a good idea right?
Some of the iteas sound like good ideas, but NEC pushes them to the extreem.
I choose to be generous and think that they were /trying/ for safety.
However the end result is just about impossible to implement, at least
without spending more on the EV Supply Equipment then you do on the EV.
Personally I feel that it's best to work under the assumption that Art 625
doesn't apply to me, then it is to try and follow it. If I try and follow
it then I am admitting that I /need/ to follow it.
If an inspector drops by to visit, he is not going to find anything wired
in that is "specific" to charging an EV.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Bill,
>
> I do not see the requirement for a locking connector in Art 625.
> I think you are referring to Interlock:
Go back and read it again carefully:
625-9.
...
(d) Unintentional Disconnection. The electric vehicle
coupler shall be provided with a positive means to prevent
unintentional disconnection.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/5/06, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I do not see the requirement for a locking connector in Art 625.
> I think you are referring to Interlock:
Go back and read it again carefully:
625-9.
...
(d) Unintentional Disconnection. The electric vehicle
coupler shall be provided with a positive means to prevent
unintentional disconnection.
Surely the electric vehicle coupler is the part that connects to the
vehicle. Such as the avcon or magnacharger paddle. But what about
the other end of that cable?
With those charging systems, it is permanently attached to a fixed
installation.
My EV has an avcon-type connector and the other end of the cable has a
16A industrial plug (non locking type). This was supplied as standard
with the vehicle for opportunity charging.
"Unintentional disconnection" of the vehicle end of the cable does not
sound very difficult to arrange. You could make the cable permanently
attached. Or make the socket recessed behind the fuel flap (with a
release inside the car) so that the door will close when it's plugged
in.
Just a thought.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I saw the 200W rateing and Know that that is just one data point at one
> rpm and load, probably continuous. The alternators turned motors before
> were run as a motor at much higher power levels than as alternators. I
> would first assume that the magnets would be changed to nyobidium to
> increase the flux by a few 100% and then the voltage would be driven to
> 50or 60 instead of 12V Maybe short bursts of 15X power would then be
> available.
>
> one per wheel starts at 800 watts
> higher voltage which means higher current is maybe times 5 or 10? with
> magnets that won't demagnatize
> so maybe 4kw-8kw ??
>
>
Except that higher volts mean higher RPMs, and you need the higher RPMs to
get he higher power levels. It's already not suitable as a hub motor at
12V, it's going to be even less suitable at 60V.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The point isn't that it's difficult to achieve, the point is that it's a
dangerously stupid requirement.
This us probably why the OEM chargers do NOT incorporate this feature.
See, even the OEM chargers, Magnacharge/Avcon, don't meet the requirements
outlined by Art 625.
> On 5/5/06, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > Bill,
>> >
>> > I do not see the requirement for a locking connector in Art 625.
>> > I think you are referring to Interlock:
>>
>> Go back and read it again carefully:
>>
>> 625-9.
>> ...
>> (d) Unintentional Disconnection. The electric vehicle
>> coupler shall be provided with a positive means to prevent
>> unintentional disconnection.
>
> Surely the electric vehicle coupler is the part that connects to the
> vehicle. Such as the avcon or magnacharger paddle. But what about
> the other end of that cable?
> With those charging systems, it is permanently attached to a fixed
> installation.
>
> My EV has an avcon-type connector and the other end of the cable has a
> 16A industrial plug (non locking type). This was supplied as standard
> with the vehicle for opportunity charging.
>
> "Unintentional disconnection" of the vehicle end of the cable does not
> sound very difficult to arrange. You could make the cable permanently
> attached. Or make the socket recessed behind the fuel flap (with a
> release inside the car) so that the door will close when it's plugged
> in.
> Just a thought.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm,
Not sure this requires a locking connector.
In other legatislative documentation (OSHA) it says:
"signs, guarding or other positive means of protection"
So it may be that this requirement is satisfied with a
sign "do not disconnect".
In yet another Q&A section of OSHA it is argued that a
quick-disconnect is definitely a positive means of
protection against unintentional disconnection:
------------------------------------------------------
You described a quick-disconnect with a "pull-down sleeve." In order to
separate the tool from the hose, the sleeve must be grasped and pulled down
against the resistance of a spring. This type of device is a "positive
means" of preventing the tool and hose from accidentally separating since it
is designed to prevent the hose and tool from becoming accidentally
disconnected. Therefore, it meets the requirements in §1926.302(b)(1).
------------------------------------------------------
This comes close, but is not identical to a locking
connector. In fact, it is very close to Evan's suggestion
of using the filler door as the protection.
Even if it is just a spring-loaded flap and not a locking
door would it be considered a positive means of protection.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 3:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Article 625 Interlock
> Bill,
>
> I do not see the requirement for a locking connector in Art 625.
> I think you are referring to Interlock:
Go back and read it again carefully:
625-9.
...
(d) Unintentional Disconnection. The electric vehicle
coupler shall be provided with a positive means to prevent
unintentional disconnection.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/5/06, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The point isn't that it's difficult to achieve, the point is that it's a
dangerously stupid requirement.
I can see that it's pointless but "dangerously stupid?" Given that
you can't drive away with it connected, the risk is pretty small.
Even if you do, the "automatic de-energisation" part would prevent any
exposed parts being live.
What do you mean.. tripping hazard?
This us probably why the OEM chargers do NOT incorporate this feature.
See, even the OEM chargers, Magnacharge/Avcon, don't meet the requirements
outlined by Art 625.
Really? Can you pull the Avcon connector apart "unintentionally"?
Again, my EV has a connector that looks very similar to Avcon, and you
must pull a lever inside the car and then press a button on the handle
to release it. Perhaps it's not as similar as I thought..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/5/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hmmm,
Not sure this requires a locking connector.
That's my reading of it too, anyway.
Going back to my favorite industrial connector again, it has a
spring-loaded cover with a "peg" which locates against a matching peg
on the plug body, when it's inserted (picture here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309)
Note that you can still force it to unplug by pulling hard enough on
the cable, without damaging the cable, although it's hard to do.
I'd say that's an example of a connector that is proof against
"unintentional disconnection", yet is not "locking" and is not likely
to expose the conductors if you really do rip it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have somebody you wants to convert a Porsche 914 , I'd like to find one
with a bad motor and good interior , is there a car wanted web site ? any
other ways of locating cars ? steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I connect the charger, set it at 15 amps, it runs for about ten
> minutes and blows the DC fuse. K&W BC20 on a 108 volt pack. The
> batteries are new and I am not aware of any change to have cause the
>
> fuse to blow. It worked and then suddenly didn't. I have gone
> through 4 or 5 fuses and still can't see anything out of the
> ordinary.
> Help,
> Calvin
Hi, Calvin. If you connect a meter to the output of the BC-20 and set
it to *AC*, you will see a large AC component in the charger output.
The instantaneous current can easily exceed the fuse rating (20A, I
believe) when the DC current is that high. Eventually the fuse blows.
I was never able to get more than about 10A out of a BC-20. I'm not
sure how you are able to do this, but the solution is to turn it down.
Mine always ran at about 8-10A until it reached the cutback voltage.
The final charge current was aroun 1-2A at the set voltage.
The unusual thing, as others have posted, is that the AC breaker didn't
go first. If the Dc current was 15A, the Ac current had to be over 20.
Are you using a dedicated 30A outlet or maybe a 240V outlet and a
stepdown transformer? If not, I'd check the breaker and make sure it
still works.
David Brandt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI,
Windows didn't recognize the file format, but it will
open in Adobe Acrobat if you select 'all files'.
Rod
--- Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Ryan Stotts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> Here's some from Optima:
> >>
> >>
>
http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/con
> >> fig/news/logos.html
> >
> >Thanks! Kind of small, but it may still be better
> than scanning one of
> >my Optima stickers.
>
> Here's a AI Vector file of a bumper sticker for the
> Zilla:
> http://cafeelectric.com/temp/ZillaPowered.zip
> Of course it should be made in dark Green ;)
>
> Have fun.
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/
> The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
> Now accepting resumes. Please see:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First of all I made a mistake on the drawing and meant to have the motor
connect to the m- on the zilla so we still have current control during
motoring. I wouldn't expect regen currents to get higher than the motor
currents or battery currents durig driving. but high voltage spikes are
roted external of the controller back to the batteries.
The second pot box, the one mounted on the brake pedal, would either
have a series resistor or just be limited in it's stroke to keep the
throttle in a reasonable range.
The problem I see here is not generating enough voltage without a dc-dc,
the zilla chops the 300V pack voltage down and the armature limit is at
170 , so how is regen ever going to get conduction on the diode(other
than an initial spike.)
I have read the curtis article and it involves reversing and tickleing
the field, I was trying to avoid the reversing part.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the circuit.
B+______________________________________________
| __|__
| /_\ D1 ____
| | / \
| _______ o____|________A1__[
]__A2_____
|__B+_| zilla |M+___S1-field--S2___o==== K1
\____/ |
B-
______|_______|________________________o_________________________________|
|| M-
__||____
|hairball|
|________|___________________
| | | to valet input
|-----|-----------| |
/\/\/\/------------/\/\/\/- |
PB6 throttle PB6 brake |
12V----NO----------------NC----------|---------K1coil-----gnd
D1 - SD1053C18S20L $127 at digikey 1000A 1800V diode
K1 - SPDT SW201 $175 evparts (would this be lrg enough?
Intended theory of operation:
During motoring K1 is in the NC position connected to A1 and current
flows from the zilla thru the field then the armature to pack neg.
could use valet input to change zilla settings during regen?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
Here's two good forums
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?showforum=20
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=240
Ron Archer
steve clunn wrote:
I have somebody you wants to convert a Porsche 914 , I'd like to find
one with a bad motor and good interior , is there a car wanted web site
? any other ways of locating cars ? steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
steve clunn writes:
>
> I have somebody you wants to convert a Porsche 914 , I'd like to find one
> with a bad motor and good interior , is there a car wanted web site ? any
> other ways of locating cars ? steve clunn
Steve,
Look on eBay. There are currently about 14 of them listed for sale, ranging
in price from $350 to $5000. If I were doing a 914 I'd buy a fully restored
vehicle or one in very good condition, and then pull/sell the engine. Unless,
of course, you enjoy doing body work and rust repair and running down parts...
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
I think this word wrapped...here it is in
a more compact form:
Here is the circuit.
B+__________________________________________
| __|__
| D1 /_\ ___
| | / \
| _______ o____|__A1_[ ]_A2_
|__B+_| zilla |M+___S1-field--S2_o== K1 \___/ | B-
|_______|_____________________o_____________________|
|| M-
__||____
|hairball|
|________|___________________
| | | to valet input
|-----|-----------| |
/\/\/\/------------/\/\/\/- |
PB6 throttle PB6 brake |
12V----NO----------------NC----------|---------K1coil-----gnd
D1 - SD1053C18S20L $127 at digikey 1000A 1800V diode
K1 - SPDT SW201 $175 evparts (would this be lrg enough?
Intended theory of operation:
During motoring K1 is in the NC position connected to A1 and current
flows from the zilla thru the field then the armature to pack neg.
could use valet input to change zilla settings during regen?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roger,
Without pictures it is difficult to draw reliable conclusions, but from
what you've described, I storngly suspect 4 packs of 60V, one feeding
each motor, and that the 4 motors are Lynch/Lemco units. The 60V limit
would then make sense as in unmodified trim these motors can overrev and
self destruct on much more than 60V.
I bet you are right about the batteries being separated into 60 volt packs.
In fact, looking at a schematic in the article, it seems their are two
separate packs (front and rear). Each pack is 5 buddy pairs in series.
I am pretty sure the motors are not Lynch/Lemco units. They look like
standard serial motors like ADC motors. It is hard to guess size from the
picture but I suspect they could handle more voltage.
My guess is the controllers he had available were limited to that voltage.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I ran across a posting that Optima Batteries is having a contest. Optima is
looking for a car that deserves $50,000 worth of performance upgrades.
<go to www.optimafullride.com and submit a photo of their vehicle and a
200-word story on why their vehicle deserves the "Full Ride". Industry
experts, using the following criteria: originality, clarity and adherence to
theme, will select five finalists to be considered for the grand prize.>
Hmmmm.
<"OPTIMA Batteries provide the long lasting power needed to run many of the
electronics and accessories being added to vehicles today. Auto and truck
enthusiasts are installing OPTIMA's at the same time they're adding other
high-performance parts like brakes, exhausts systems, stereo systems, wheels
and tires.">
Anyone running Optimas, or in mid conversion, or have a nice car running
flooded lead acid? Tell them that Optimas will make your car go!
Details: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060501/clm522.html?.v=27
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
Your first Wieenie award HAS to go to everyone who didn't vote in the
NEDRA election !
How much room is there in the bed of the pickup? I have those two 15"
dia x 22" custom motors that we need to get working on.
If I can get them to Chicago maybe you can take them back to your shop.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 3 May 2006 20:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: High Voltage Nationals
Hey all
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We just picked up some new projects that are going to preclude us
from
preparing the OJ-2 for race time.
...the OJ is hanging on the wall unfinished and untested.
Additionally, I stole the disconnect/ breaker box and "OH ____" lever
for the Monster Garage project. We have not had time to build and
install a new one. So OJ is out for Chicago
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Say it isn't so! Getting to finally see your machine in person was to
be
one of the highlights for me on this very long cross country trip.
I bummed out over this email also when I read it today 8^ (
In fact when I told my wife Amy that Orange Juice wasn't going to
attend she
replied that's Shawn Lawless right? (She actually is listening to me
when I
talk, lmao) I guess I wanted to chime in here with I mirror John in
that I was
looking forward to meeting the man and the machine 8^ )
I also want to acknowlege how much effort it takes to attend an
EVent. I just
took a call from Matt Graham and being he's got his hands full at this
minute
(hope he doesn't mind) I'll add to his last post with news that his
shafts are
not looking good. Although he appeared calm he has got to be in freak
mode
right now. He's going to swap motor positions and get some harder keys
and
hopefully reassemble EVerything to make the Joliet race in time.
Matt's an
awesome guy and I hope he makes it, as it just might be the only time I
get to
see his car in person. He actually was glad it happened now rather
than to tow
it to the race and then have it break.
I'll be attending as a spectator as will be Bob Rice and others so
even if you
can't get the Juice monster up maybe just come out to support the race??
As a matter of fact it seems everyone is in freak mode and if one
includes
both the Gone Postal and the MG tapings and what I've seen at the
Wayland juice
bar prior to races it suggests you guys like it that way, lmao!! I'll
echo John
also in that I can't believe that you, Wayland, Tim, Marko, Father
Time, Myself,
and a dozon other amp heads couldn't botton up OJ before the race.
I also run my own business and know how it is but, If you don't make
the race
I'm going to issue my first Hi-Torque Wiennie Award 8^ P
With the rough seas weathered by NEDRA of late I believe it needs all
the
support it can get and now is the time to show that support. For those
with
longer trips just picture John, Tim and I crammed into my pickup for 3
days of
driving!
I'm pumped can't wait till next Wednesday.
(Wayland what the hell you doing reading this, get back to work on
the Zombie)
hehehe!
Cya all (hopefully)
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor, from most of what I can find out it is a full electrical assist
power steering unit. So functionally similar to the MR2 pump, but no
hydrualics (a good thing). The unit is speed sensitive, so there is (at
least) a speed input into the unit. It is nice that it is all together
(steering column and power assist), so that steering torque sensors are
already built into the unit. This unit appears to be non-rack and pinion,
which is not too favourable (IMHO). Other similar units, with rack and
pinion, can be found in most hybrids: Honda Civic Hybrid, Honda Accord
Hybrid, Ford Escape Hybrid, Lexus RX Hybrid, Toyota Highlander Hybrid...
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: May 4, 2006 3:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: steering unit
Can someone tell please what exactly this unit does?
Is it functionally similar to MR2 unit?
http://tinyurl.com/mjqhm
Thanks,
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cor an' EVerybody;
That GM was a sponser cought MY eye, too. If they KNEW what they were
sponsoring, I'm SURE they woulda said something, or pulled it?The movie
dramatises GM'" Customer Servive" to a new level. The movie was a stunning
indightment of the whole damn system, of which dumb American consumers are
made fools of.I'm stepping over the line into politics here, as I think this
is going on the List,
But after driving EV-1's and Rav-4's that they werre talking about, the
EV we want is, well, WAS, here. This is the point of the movie.These were
first generation models, but" they took care of only 90 percent". I'm
quoting a guy in the Movie here, of American's transportation needs.
But to Joe Sixpack in NYC that the movie wasn't advertized or , say,
reviewed in the local media;NY Times, Post or Daily News, snuck in at wierd
show times. Hell I would never known of it had I not been on Line on an EV
promotion group.The Times has a vast movie section,thing reviewing every
crappy movie on the planet, but this one, so far, Nothin'!
The Trebeca Film Fest runs movies, obscure, documentaries, stuff that Joe
Sixchip wouldn't care about, but in NYC tastes run the gamit of all
stuff.But SOMEBODY cares as they run a lot of stuff you would never see in
Peoria,AZ or Ill.,Speonk,NY, Superior, MT, Woodmont, CT all real
places<g>!Well, the rather obscure " Who Killed the Electric Car" Right up
Trebecas's alley.But as the guy from TFF apologized right out that the Movie
hadn't gotten their press release thing right, so it was flying under the
Movie radar, on their website and review stuff. As you saw in the Link I
sent, ya had to hunt for the EV movie.
I will check the NY Times Movie thing, see if it gets a mention?
Seeya in Joliet, real place, too<g>!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: Tribeca Film Fellows: Meet the Next Generation of Filmmakers
> Bob,
>
> Two things really caught my eye:
> > General Motors is a Signature Sponsor and the Official Vehicle Provider
of
> this year's Festival.
> Do they know what the message of the movie is?
>
> > (AMC 34st St) 11:30pm, Who Killed the Electric Car?
> Why was it programmed at the end of the night?
> This could make it difficult for people to travel to it, unless
> you make it an overnighter.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
I'll challenge you for the most satisfied EV mower owner spot. While
my EV grin is certainly present while driving something that is used
for transportation, you and I have both realized that looking at a lawn
you have just cut almost silently, for a fraction of the cost, is one
of the ultimate EV rushes. What's even better though is watching the
SMILE, (Yes I said Smile) on my wife's face as she is tooling around
the yard on the ZEROMOW. To have a wife that enjoys cutting the grass
is the holy grail of marital bliss. I encourage anyone that is
thinking about an electric mower to take the plunge. Build one, Buy
one, just get one. You won't regret it!
Caution: Shameless ZEROMOW plug to follow:
The ZEROMOW EV zero-turn mower project is moving forward. I will be
updating the website in the near future but the gist is this.
2 production prototypes are being built for this year's 2006
International Lawn and Garden Show in Louisville. These will be VERY
close to the actual production units to follow. Last year we dove
into the mower scene. This year we are going to Cannonball the ICE
mower world.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 4 May 2006 09:01:20 -0400
Subject: Re: converting a gas mower to electric
.Hi Mike I may be the most satisfied Ev mower owner on the list , I use
mine for my lawn business somthing cutting more that 10 yards a day
with it. you can see my mower 1/2 down the page at
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projects.htm
I've cut lawns so thin that no gas mower could tuch them. But as I have
a 8" net gain motor and 120v 400 amp crutis con troller ( yes this
would run a car :-) and am running 96v , 8 orbitals,
You could buy one used; or look at one to get ideas for doing your
own conversion.
That's the recommendation I'm getting frequently. There are a couple
> within an hours drive from here that I may look at. I like tinkering
> though, so I find it more appealing to convert my gas mower to
electric - > especially if I could do it for roughly the same cost as
buying a 30 year > old electric tractor and bringing it back to working
condition.
I think your right here , restoring can be costly , finding the right
parts ect , where the mower you showed is commen , the elec trak is a
little like the ev 1 , a great mower but not common .
I'd like
to get a rough idea of how much it might cost me to do the
gas-electric > conversion to compare to the cost of buying one of those
old Elec-Traks > (another drawback as I see it for the elec-traks is
that most have a front > mount mower deck rather than under the belly,
which would make it more > difficult to fit into our garage).
yep ,
The garden tractor style of riding lawm mower is the best start.
Cheap
riding mowers are too flimsily built, and can't carry enough
batteries
to bother with.
The mower you have would do fine , don't get to hung up on loading it
down with batteies , as a home owner , you could mow for 15 minites
then charge and do other stuff , mow , charge , mow charge .
The one I have is the same as this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7761400583&category=50
377&fkxs=1
It's a 14.5 hp tractor with a 42" deck. It seems very sturdy, and
should > have room for at least 4 12V batteries (or possibly 6 6v or
8v) batteries. > I'm wondering if it would be better to salvage a
motor, controller, etc. > from an old electric golf cart, or find
new/used ones. Hell, I could > probably make my own controller I
suppose....
yes a golf cart motor would work, if you can fine one with a shaft
instead of a hole, and the old coil of wire controller the used is also
good , I went with the orbitals , cus my discharge is less that an
hour, and I needed the voltage to be hi so as to be close to my EV
trucks voltage for dump charging ,
A friend and I converted his old Wheel Horse garden tractor to
electric.
It was a pretty simple process. We replaced the dead 8hp gas engine
with
a 1.5hp 24v electric motor, and a separate 24v 3/4hp motor for the
mower
deck. We initially used two 12v deep-cycle batteries, but mowing time
was too short (20 minutes). We replaced these to four 6v golf cart
Does it have a manual or hydrostatic tranny? This gas mower has a >
hydrostatic (automatic) tranny. I'm not at all familiar with those, so
I'm > not sure how the motor will attach to it.
I have the hydrostatic tranny's also , I'd go with one bigger motor and
put it right where the gas was , .
As Rod Hower told me when I was on the fence , Go for it , , and I did
:-)
I don't know what was more fun , seeing Bob Rice smoke the tires on my
race truck or mowing the lawn with my ev mower ,
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:16 PM 5/4/2006, damon henry wrote:
The batteries it has are Qty 4, 12V Marine. 12"x6.5"x10"tall. I
can go up to 13" tall and still fit.
I'd like to use true deep cycle/golf cart batteries, but fitting in
that form factor looks like it will be difficult.
Why not use some of your BB600s? Did you use them all in the Sparrow?
Well, I may have enough left over. Lets see, looks like I could fit
16 BB600's in the space of 1 of the existing batteries. That's 19.2v
worth. So I could run 2 strings for a 38.4v system. Kind of awkward
as I have a nice 48v charger for the mower. I'd need an extra 16
more cells to get up to a 48v system, and I don't think there is
room. Or I could drop down to 1 string, but 35AH seems kind of low.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much do you have to mow? I have one string of 40 bb600 cells, now 38, in a
seriously inefficient broken tranny sears tractor affair, anyone know of a
blown kohler 15hp tractor near double oak texas that needs a home?
I think once I fix one or two issues I could do my full acre on 3 charges
instead of 4 :-( But I really do have a full acre all I have is probably 1300
square feet of non lawn between the house, driveway and workshop.
"John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 11:16 PM 5/4/2006, damon henry wrote:
>>The batteries it has are Qty 4, 12V Marine. 12"x6.5"x10"tall. I
>>can go up to 13" tall and still fit.
>>I'd like to use true deep cycle/golf cart batteries, but fitting in
>>that form factor looks like it will be difficult.
>
>Why not use some of your BB600s? Did you use them all in the Sparrow?
Well, I may have enough left over. Lets see, looks like I could fit
16 BB600's in the space of 1 of the existing batteries. That's 19.2v
worth. So I could run 2 strings for a 38.4v system. Kind of awkward
as I have a nice 48v charger for the mower. I'd need an extra 16
more cells to get up to a 48v system, and I don't think there is
room. Or I could drop down to 1 string, but 35AH seems kind of low.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn,
Why the solar panel...isn't that like a squirt
gun against a fire-hydrant...
If I were a customer of yours, why should I have to
pay the extra money for something that will take a
week to recharge my batteries when I have a 60 Amp
charger specifically designed for the mower in my
garage?
Also, isn't that a little too fragile to be riding
on a lawnmower? I don't know about you, but when
I mow with a lawn/garden tractor, I'm always scruffing
bushes, ducking under low trees and anything else
I can do to get away from a huge clean up job with
my string trimmer...how would this affect a solar panel?
Just some questions...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve,
I'll challenge you for the most satisfied EV mower owner spot. While my
EV grin is certainly present while driving something that is used for
transportation, you and I have both realized that looking at a lawn you
have just cut almost silently, for a fraction of the cost, is one of the
ultimate EV rushes. What's even better though is watching the SMILE,
(Yes I said Smile) on my wife's face as she is tooling around the yard
on the ZEROMOW. To have a wife that enjoys cutting the grass is the
holy grail of marital bliss. I encourage anyone that is thinking about
an electric mower to take the plunge. Build one, Buy one, just get one.
You won't regret it!
Caution: Shameless ZEROMOW plug to follow:
The ZEROMOW EV zero-turn mower project is moving forward. I will be
updating the website in the near future but the gist is this.
2 production prototypes are being built for this year's 2006
International Lawn and Garden Show in Louisville. These will be VERY
close to the actual production units to follow. Last year we dove into
the mower scene. This year we are going to Cannonball the ICE mower world.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 4 May 2006 09:01:20 -0400
Subject: Re: converting a gas mower to electric
.Hi Mike I may be the most satisfied Ev mower owner on the list , I use
mine for my lawn business somthing cutting more that 10 yards a day with
it. you can see my mower 1/2 down the page at
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projects.htm
I've cut lawns so thin that no gas mower could tuch them. But as I have
a 8" net gain motor and 120v 400 amp crutis con troller ( yes this would
run a car :-) and am running 96v , 8 orbitals,
You could buy one used; or look at one to get ideas for doing your
own conversion.
That's the recommendation I'm getting frequently. There are a couple
> within an hours drive from here that I may look at. I like tinkering
> though, so I find it more appealing to convert my gas mower to
electric - > especially if I could do it for roughly the same cost as
buying a 30 year > old electric tractor and bringing it back to working
condition.
I think your right here , restoring can be costly , finding the right
parts ect , where the mower you showed is commen , the elec trak is a
little like the ev 1 , a great mower but not common .
I'd like
to get a rough idea of how much it might cost me to do the
gas-electric > conversion to compare to the cost of buying one of those
old Elec-Traks > (another drawback as I see it for the elec-traks is
that most have a front > mount mower deck rather than under the belly,
which would make it more > difficult to fit into our garage).
yep ,
The garden tractor style of riding lawm mower is the best start.
Cheap
riding mowers are too flimsily built, and can't carry enough
batteries
to bother with.
The mower you have would do fine , don't get to hung up on loading it
down with batteies , as a home owner , you could mow for 15 minites then
charge and do other stuff , mow , charge , mow charge .
The one I have is the same as this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7761400583&category=50
377&fkxs=1
It's a 14.5 hp tractor with a 42" deck. It seems very sturdy, and
should > have room for at least 4 12V batteries (or possibly 6 6v or 8v)
batteries. > I'm wondering if it would be better to salvage a motor,
controller, etc. > from an old electric golf cart, or find new/used
ones. Hell, I could > probably make my own controller I suppose....
yes a golf cart motor would work, if you can fine one with a shaft
instead of a hole, and the old coil of wire controller the used is also
good , I went with the orbitals , cus my discharge is less that an hour,
and I needed the voltage to be hi so as to be close to my EV trucks
voltage for dump charging ,
A friend and I converted his old Wheel Horse garden tractor to
electric.
It was a pretty simple process. We replaced the dead 8hp gas engine
with
a 1.5hp 24v electric motor, and a separate 24v 3/4hp motor for the
mower
deck. We initially used two 12v deep-cycle batteries, but mowing time
was too short (20 minutes). We replaced these to four 6v golf cart
Does it have a manual or hydrostatic tranny? This gas mower has a >
hydrostatic (automatic) tranny. I'm not at all familiar with those, so
I'm > not sure how the motor will attach to it.
I have the hydrostatic tranny's also , I'd go with one bigger motor and
put it right where the gas was , .
As Rod Hower told me when I was on the fence , Go for it , , and I did :-)
I don't know what was more fun , seeing Bob Rice smoke the tires on my
race truck or mowing the lawn with my ev mower ,
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
