EV Digest 5453
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Contactor for 192 V and Zilla, Cableform A1200 questions
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: More Wrightspeed (was Re: Tesla Motors)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Safe charging (Was Art. 625 etc.)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Safe charging (Was Art. 625 etc.)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Sources of Energy
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Pot Box Adjustments for a Zilla
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Sources of Energy
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) TdS Report #1: The Entrants
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) TdS Report #2: What Sort of Person ...?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) EMB's end of search for now - long (following the good hint in the
guidelines to posting here)
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
There must be a good reason why the following idea is not done:
Instead of regulators for each battery in an EV, why not use individual
chargers?
I'm fairly clueless about these things so there will no doubt be a good
reason, what made me think of this is I can buy RC chargers at $60 that do
12V lead-acid (and nicad, Li-po etc). The downside is they only charge at 5
amps, so for 50AH battery, that's 10 hours (right?).
They also run on 12v DC so would need a large power supply to power 20 of
them - maybe that's a reason?
Can someone inform me why this idea won't work? It's not a solution I would
implement, mainly because of pressing start on every one is error prone -
all it takes is to miss starting one when charging and you would have killed
a battery. Certain chargers don't have this issue though.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brad,
I had the same question about my 180 V pack, here is a response from Lee Hart
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Albright/Curtis SW200A - 16 144v use?
> Rush wrote:
>> If I understand you correctly the potbox microswitch should be wired
>> in series with the 12 v power going to the contactor so that when
>> you let up on the accelerator and it goes back to rest position,
>> the contactor is turned off?
>>
>> Doesn't that make for lots of on/off cycles for the contactor and
>> also wear on the contacts?
>
> Having the contactor turn off when you release the accellerator pedal is
> the safest arrangement. It's what you naturally will do if/when the
> controller ever fails fully "on".
>
> Yes, you do hear the click-clunk as it pulls in and drops out each time
> you use the accellerator pedal. But if the contactor is not mounted to a
> "sounding board" and/or is in a box it is hardly noticeable.
>
> No, the contacts won't wear out any sooner. The contactor is switching
> at no current (unless there's a fault), and is built to last millions of
> cycles this way.
>
> You need a precharge resistor across the contact, so the controller
> won't lose its precharge while you are stopped.
>
> People who care more about the noise will wire it so the contactor is
> operated by the brake pedal (drops when you step on the brakes), or (not
> so smart) so it is always on whenever the key is on.
> --
> If you would not be forgotten
> When your body's dead and rotten
> Then write of great deeds worth the reading
> Or do the great deeds worth repeating
> -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
and
Andrew Letton wrote:
> If two SW200's are used, do they have to be immediately adjacent
> to each other electrically to have the 2x voltage capacity, or
> could one be at the "top" of the pack and the second one be
> located mid-pack (at the 72V point) with the same effect?
As long as they are in series, it won't matter where they are. You could
put one in the pack+ and one in the pack- legs, for example (that's
where I have mine). When the contactors are off, the pack is completely
disconnected.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Hope this helps...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Baylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: Contactor for 192 V and Zilla, Cableform A1200 questions
> For 192 V of 32 buddy paired Orbitals, Warp 9, Zilla 1KHV. The
> Albright SW-200 isn't powerful enough. I don't like the idea of
> ganging 4 in series/parallel, hoping they all open/close at exactly
> the same time (plus a single larger one may be about the same cost).
> After searching some more I found a post by Roland Wiench about the
> Cableform A1200. Here's their web page:
> http://www.cableform.com/mtp/mtp-dcce-a1200.htm
>
> I don't see a voltage rating on this. Is 192 V ok? The A1211SP01
> has a continuous rating of 400 A, so brief draws of 1000 A should be
> ok right? I'm a bit confused by what options to get. Roland mentions
> magnetic blowouts, so I'll get it with that. They don't list 192 V
> coils, but are they available special order? Or should I just get 12 V
> (my DC-DC will have 160 A available). Does the drive voltage need to
> be cut back after pull in to avoid overheating? Then there are the
> auxiliary switches options. What would those be needed for? And
> finally there are the diode and resistor-diode suppression options.
> Are they for suppressing the coil's inductive kick? Anything special
> about the diode they use, or would it be cheaper to just add my own?
>
> Can anyone clarify?
>
> Brad Baylor
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, this is correct. The "wrightspeed" is simply an Ariel Atom with an AC
Propulsion motor.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Ankers
Sent: May 6, 2006 2:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: More Wrightspeed (was Re: Tesla Motors)
Free Republic has a certain reputation - it where the people that believe
Fox new hang out. Out of all the forums on the internet these guys would be
amongst the last to get EVs.
It was interesting to learn that the Wrightspeed seems to be a conversion
project though. As I'd never seen an Ariel Atom before, hence I assumed that
the WrightSpeed was specially built chassis. The wrightspeed seems to be the
Atom with the advanced AC motor and controller replacing the Honda VTEC, is
this correct?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: Saturday, 6 May 2006 9:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: More Wrightspeed (was Re: Tesla Motors)
WOW! Got to the link on Free Republic and read the posts. Amazing viewpoints
on that list. One of them is convinced that EVs will never match the
efficiency of ICEs. Another said that until you can go 300 miles at highway
speeds, it won't fly. The biggest obstacle we face is not technology.
Dave Cover
--- Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, and that CNN story helps Mr. Wright while also raising public
> awareness -- and expectations -- for electrics. This latest CNN story
> is generating the largest traffic spike that my site has ever seen.
>
> Here's a related link for those of you who like to watch the non-EVDL
> crowd critique EVs...
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1627475/posts
>
> Cheers,
> -Dave
> http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
>
> On May 5, 2006, at 3:27 PM, Mike Ellis wrote:
>
> > On 5/4/06, Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> One of their ex-employees, Ian Wright, was so serious that he want
> >> off to found his own company (Wrightspeed); you may have seen or
> >> heard of his prototype, based on the Ariel Atom, which does 0-60 in
> >> 3 seconds using a Lithium-Ion battery pack.
> >
> > Speaking of the Wrightspeed it's on CNN Business today, with some
> > pictures of the internals I hadn't seen before.
> >
> > http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/04/technology/business2_wrightspeed/
> > index.htm
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>1. Use a good quality standard 110/220V outlet.
>> A simple safety check once in a while will ensure they are up to
>>snuff.
>
> Nothing more than is being done now need be done. With most camp
> ground operators, that involves waiting until a customer reports a
> defective outlet. I have a CG that I frequent and I like one
> particular spot right on the creek. The 120vac convenience outlet has
> been missing most of its bakelite for years. Yeah, a hot prong is
> exposed. No, no one has helped Darwin along yet.
I wasn't thinking exposed conductors so much as high resistance outlets.
After a lot of use the contacts in the socket can get loose and then the
outlet heats up. I've seen this many times, especially on high draw
appliances like heaters. Fires have started this way. At the very least
you end up with a melted cord/plug which GREATLY increases the shock
hazard, not to mention ruining the cord/plug.
>>2. Use a GFCIâ¦'nough said. Oh alright, use a 20ma GFCI if you are too
>>lazy to keep your batteries clean :D
>
> Rolls eyes. This would be a matter of doing something just to be
> doing something while trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
I'm going to dissagree here. Granted, if you use an isolated charger, the
GFCI is not needed, but does no real harm either. I use a standard GFCI
on my truck and it only ever trips when the batteries are dirty, usually
when yours truely touches a rusty spot on the cab while the truck is
charging.
Hence my suggestion for the 20 ma version.
Then again, I (normally) live in southern Arizona and dew isn't all that
common.
>>4. If pulled on, the charge cable should disconnect from the EV before
>> it
>>pulls out of the outlet. No sense dragging a cord around.
>> A. Might be a good idea to have a micro switch sense the cord being
>>unplugged and automatically turn off the charger.
>
> If the charger is internal to the EV then no. Just something else to
> go wrong while not addressing any real problem.
For the most part, probably not needed. That's why I said "Might". I
have seen some chargers that throw a pretty good spark when unplugged if
they are putting out big amps into the pack. The main point would be
protection from charring your contacts.
>
>> B. Might be a good idea to have an alarm sound if the cord is pulled
>>out before charging is completed.
>
> What would that accomplish? Perhaps a "push to reset" annunciator on
> the dash so the driver would know the charge isn't complete. Or just
> rely on the "gas gauge".
Again, "Might". Not a requirement, not even a safety feature, just an
added feature. Personally if something interupts my charge, I'd like to
know about it in time to plug the vehicle back in so I can get a full
charge by the next time I need it.
>>5. Ventilation for flooded batteries is a good idea. Force ventilation
>> of
>>the battery boxes is probably a good idea. Since hydrogen will rapidly
>>rise to the ceiling, provide it with a simple escape path near the
>> ceiling
>>so it won't accumulate.
>
> Not really. It is VERY difficult to generate enough hydrogen to form
> an explosive mixture outside the batteries themselves. Most "hydrogen
> explosions", I think, end up being like the one reported here last
> week, when something inside a cell arced and ignited trapped hydrogen.
I recall hearing of at least two confirmed cases of battery box
explosions, not battery but battery box. I doubt you need forced
ventilation, a couple holes in the top of the box is probably sufficient.
But blowing air trough the box won't hurt, and doesn't cost much.
I don't know if enough hydrogen can accumulate near the roof during heavy
charging to be an issue, but again, it does no real harm to make sure
there is an outlet for it.
Not even a tiny issue for me since the roof in my garage is vented for
convection cooling anyway. I'd imagine this is the case for most people.
My main concern is that modern houses are tending towards tighter and
tighter seals in order to improve insulation. I can see someone pursuing
the ultimate in efficient homes coming up with a (nearly) hermetically
sealed garage.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day Dave, and all
At 07:59 PM 6/05/06 +1000, David Ankers wrote:
There must be a good reason why the following idea is not done:
Instead of regulators for each battery in an EV, why not use individual
chargers?
Some people do, the risk is in what happens if one of them fails - most of
your pack is charged, so the pack voltage is up near to where it should be,
but one 12V module isn't - and so it quickly gets discharged when you
start off, then since the rest of the pack is fine, that one gets reversed,
and killed.
So you must have a bulletproof charger monitoring system of some kind, in
order to prevent that from happening. Mean time between failiures for a
model of charger may be 40 years, but if you have 20 of them, expect one
failiure, on average, every two years. As long as you have means to detect
this, there is no problem. It is really no more complex to connect 20
chargers and a monitoring system, than 20 regulators and a charger.
I'm fairly clueless about these things so there will no doubt be a good
reason, what made me think of this is I can buy RC chargers at $60 that do
12V lead-acid (and nicad, Li-po etc). The downside is they only charge at 5
amps, so for 50AH battery, that's 10 hours (right?).
Correct. But they also charge for RC use - to 97% or so of capacity, then
terminate typically on high voltage. EV sized batteries really need more
cossetting than that, in order to get good life. Otmars' site (
www.cafeelectric.com ) has (or had) buried in the back pages a tech report
by Optima on AGM charging using current interrupt to get full charge and
best life.
They also run on 12v DC so would need a large power supply to power 20 of
them - maybe that's a reason?
No, worse than that - the typical RC chargers that I know of that run from
12V are not isolated between input and output, so you would need 20 power
supplies as well as 20 regulators. They are also not designed for the
day-in, day-out service of an EV, they may have a design intent of a finite
number of charges, and no longer than (x) minutes of charging before (y)
minutes of rest. How long does it take to charge an RC pack?
Can someone inform me why this idea won't work? It's not a solution I would
implement, mainly because of pressing start on every one is error prone -
all it takes is to miss starting one when charging and you would have killed
a battery. Certain chargers don't have this issue though.
Most chargers you could consider for this type of service would be fully
automatic and designed for a given battery chemistry. They would also have
status lights or relays to show the charge condition. Ideally you have
relays that turn on for successful completion, all on = full pack, plus if
it were mine I'd have secondary monitoring of each block as well.
Hope this helps
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/6/06, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not really. It is VERY difficult to generate enough hydrogen to form
an explosive mixture outside the batteries themselves. Most "hydrogen
explosions", I think, end up being like the one reported here last
week, when something inside a cell arced and ignited trapped hydrogen.
I've heard of at one definite "battery box" explosion in a conversion
EV. With the lid of the box being blown off and causing damage. I
agree that this seems very unlikely to happen in the much bigger and
leakier space of a garage though.
A question: apart from the hydrogen, are "battery fumes" from flooded
lead-acid batteries considered safe to breathe in general? Nothing
even slightly toxic or irritant in them? Even in the case of an
equalising charge or thermal run-away?
They can certainly make an unpleasant smell, and I know from
experience what the fumes do to exposed metalwork in the vicinity.
So, when I'm doing renewable energy installations I always follow the
recommendation to vent the batteries to the outside.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> As someone who has spent his life looking for the Right Answers, it is
> frustrating at the extreme to see this same old quack-science crap
> coming around again and again. Between quack-science, conspiracy
> theories, hate-the-car-company rants and all the other distractions
> that seem to take up so much bandwidth both here and in the media, it
> gets painful to continue participating.
You forgot 'hate-the-oil-company' rants. But: Who gets to decide what's
'quack-science' and what is not? Other people are looking for the right
answers too, and, while they might get lost in the process, that's the
nature of things.
> The problem with posting quack-science stuff is that to those of us
> who know, you look like a fool. I hate to waste time helping fools so
> in the future I will probably just sit on my finger when I know an
> answer to your question. ("You" being used generically here.)
Those of us 'who know' ? While it is true that I am probably not a member
of that elusive circle, I am a longtime Linux engineer and help people in
other lists and chats. While I am encountering weird people, it helps to
just ignore, not to attack or to raise myself into the heavens above.
> combustion to burning witches to quacky medical procedures such as
> blood letting to today's quack science masquerading as much of
> contemporary environmental thinking. I would be remiss if I didn't do
> my part to prevent this sort of historical repetition.
So - you consider contemporary environmental thinking as some kind of
weird science? Based on your posting and as somebody 'Who Knows' you must
have an advanced degree in some related area of science? And you have
access to all the data? And you are in touch with those who are dedicating
their professional lifes to this topic?
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 5/4/2006 10:24:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Otmar,
I checked the codes last night and at idle (foot off accelerator) it reads
44 & at wide open it varies from F5 to 00. The hairball does not complain
and I'm not complaining either although it's hard to go slow now :^). It
cruses
easy at 65 to 70 MPH.
Pat
>Zilla Owners,
>
> I have just discovered a little anomaly with the pot Box I am using
>attached to my Z1K setup. I replaced the pot in the potbox and measured
>the resistance before reinstalling it in the car. It went from a couple
>OHMs to a little over 5K. This is just what the Zilla spec calls for.
>The throttle had about the same maximum power response as before but I
>needed to depress the throttle about 30% to get the car to move. I
>checked the Throttle cable and there was no slack , when I manually
>moved the potbox lever I needed to move it about 30% of its travel to
>get the motor to start moving. So I adjusted the pot lever on the shaft
>to make up for the lagging response. The Pot now goes from about 1K to
>almost 8K ohms. This should have caused an error from the Hairball
>because the resistance is too high. The Hairball didn't complain and the
>result was (Holy bat droppings Robin) the car accelerates way better
>than it ever has. I have been only using about 2/3 throttle for the past
>year and didn't know it.
>
>
>
>This may be worth checking for those of you that are using the Curtis
>style potbox with a Zilla.
Thanks for the heads up Pat.
The new Zillas do allow well over 5K before tripping an error.
You can check that you are getting full throttle by watching the
first value in DAQ 4 with the key off.
Pot input values for 5K input:
These are also valid for the first value when using the HEPA.
Low pot, 0x47
High pot lockout, 0xF6
Drive start 0x61
Full throttle 0x9F.
So, if you are getting less than 9F at full throttle, it needs to be higher.
Pat, yours should hit 9F at about 4.7K ohms. It's possible that there
is a problem with the Hairball that is making the scaling incorrect.
If that is the case I would like to know about it and will gladly fix
it for no charge.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich said:
>>> Gun engines.. and stupidity.. really should be kicked out or
>>> flamed off the list.
Mike Ellis replied:
>> I should be kicked off the list for my gun-engine post?
>> I kinda looked up to you Rich and now I feel kicked in the gut.
The problem isn't with you, Mike; it's with the subject and its
presentation. Rich is kicking the gun engine inventor in the gut.
Certain topics have come up so many times that they are just a waste of
bandwidth to bring up again. Like an old argument between husband and
wife; nothing good will come of dragging them out yet again. There are
times when it's best to just keep quiet and hit "delete".
Neon John wrote:
> As someone who has spent his life looking for the Right Answers,
> it is frustrating at the extreme to see this same old quack-science
> crap coming around again and again.
The problem is, you don't know if the quacking is
- a duck (i.e. some nitwit)
- a con artist scouting for suckers
- a "little professor" with a clever idea, but ignorant of basic facts
The first two are hopeless cases. You're wasting your time arguing with
them. The nitwit can't learn, and the con artist won't learn.
But once in a while, you run across the third case. Someone who has a
genuinely good idea, but doesn't know enough to properly evaluate it. It
could be a child, or a student, or just someone who hasn't had any
training and so doesn't know how to test it.
Insults and criticism won't affect the nitwits or cons; they will just
ignore you. But it *will* affect the little professors. They might be
kids, or students, or anyone who doesn't have the training or education
to understand what he's doing wrong.
Anyone with kids knows that corrections and encouragement work far
better than criticism and insults. They will learn from the former; the
latter only makes them mad and they'll ignore you. A "teachable moment"
has been lost.
So, I think it is better to either ignore the nutty idea posts, and just
hit delete. Or, if you don't have time, make helpful suggestions or
encourage them to go someplace else where they can learn how to better
develop their idea.
> The problem with posting quack-science stuff is that to those of us
> who know, you look like a fool. I hate to waste time helping fools
> so in the future I will probably just sit on my finger when I know
> an answer to your question. ("You" being used generically here.)
Ah, but *all* of us were fools when we were younger and less
experienced. I can't believe some of the stupid things I've done before
I knew any better!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Ankers wrote:
> Instead of regulators for each battery in an EV, why not use individual
> chargers?
It's a good idea, and does work well if done properly. The main
challenge is reliability. 10 chargers have 10 times the parts, and so
1/10th the reliability.
A typical consumer-grade charger (like a $50 12v 15amp charger) is only
built to be used a few times a year. It would last 10 years that way.
But if you tried using 10 of them every day, you could have one fail
every few months.
The real problem comes when you drive off in the morning not knowing
that one of your batteries didn't get charged. You'll destroy a battery
before youy get to work!
To make multiple chargers work, you need to a) use exceptionally
reliable chargers, and b) provide some means to detect (and hopefully
correct for) any failures BEFORE they destroy a battery.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #1: The Entrants
As of Saturday May 6th, this is the list of entrants in the Tour de Sol. From:
http://www.NESEA.org/transportation/tour/2006Entrants.php
The competition is divided into several CATEGORIES, each with its own rules and
requirements.
MONTE CARLO-STYLE RALLY
#31 Hybrid Turbo Hybrid Insight
Jack Lee and Babe
Venice, FL
Hybrid Turbo Honda Insight: For the promotion of green vehicles we assist you
in turbo'ing your Insight for lean burn at true highway speeds. Sky rocket
take-offs that will leave SUV's in the dust.
- - - - - - - - -
#37 Maya-100
Electrovaya
Mississauga, Canada
Electrovaya has developed a lithium-polymer battery with the world's highest
energy density of any rechargeable battery. Well established as a battery
supplier to the computer and IT industry, Electrovaya is entering the electric
vehicle market with a joint venture in Norway with SmartCar conversions.
Maya-100 is the company's test-bed for their battery use in an electric
vehicle. www.Electrovaya.com
- - - - - - - - -
#39 Prius Plug-In Conversion
#40 Hybrid Escape Plug-In Conversion
Hymotion
Concord, Ontario, Canada,
Hymotion's Plug-in Hybrid system (PHEV) can provide hybrid vehicles with a 100+
mpg fuel efficiency and fight climate change. The advantages of Hymotion's
PHEV includes better fuel economy, fewer visits to the gas station, lower fuel
costs, less pollution, and an all electric "stealth" mode. This is made
possible by Hymotion's proprietary Lithium Ion Polymer battery technology and
plug-and-play PHEV system. The system can be used with a Prius, or a Ford
Hybrid Escape. www.Hymotion.com
- - - - - - - - -
((The following entrants don't have a blurb. I suspect most are coming in
their personal vehicles.))
#32 Drew and Barbara Gillett
Green Team
Bedford, MA
- - - - - - - - -
#33 Gavin Watson
Ridgefield, CT
- - - - - - - - -
#34 John Schnebly
Vital Point
Wynantskill, NY
- - - - - - - - -
#35 Jeffrey Van Deusen
East Lyme, CT
- - - - - - - - -
#36 Colin McCullough
East Lyme, CT
- - - - - - - - -
#41 C. Michael Lewis
Portland, ME
- - - - - - - - -
#14 Vogelbilt
West Babylon, NY
- - - - - - - - -
#42 Steve MacAusland
Dedham, MA
- - - - - - - - -
AROUND-TOWN VEHICLE COMPETITION
#3 & #4 E-Bike
NTID Ebike Club
Rochester, NY
The NTID Ebike Club is proud that we have made our own bike from scratch. The
National Technical Institute for the Deaf is one of eight colleges at Rochester
Institute of Technology. We put together ideas and designed our own frame
using CAD and built it, (fabrication, machining, and welding) in 5 weeks!
There are 12 deaf students in the club. We chose to do this for the mechanical
and electrical learning experience and for fun.
- - - - - - - - -
#5 & #6 NFA Solar Racing Team
Newburgh Free Academy
New Windsor, NY
- - - - - - - - -
#8 Optibike
Optibike, LLC
Boulder, CO
Optibike is the leader in high performance electric bikes with style.
Optibikes are designed for save smooth operation at 30+ mph, deliver twice the
speed with half the effort, and have exceptional power. Last year Optibike,
with Craig Weakley on board, took first place in the three-hour range event at
the Tour de Sol. www.Optibike.com
- - - - - - - - -
#9 Lawrence Hayes
Pauling, NY
- - - - - - - - -
#7 Thomas Vreeland
Berkshire School
Sheffield, MA
- - - - - - - - -
#22 Charles Kellogg
Proctor Academy
Andover, NH
- - - - - - - - -
#23 The RunAbout Cycle
RunAbout Cycles
Florence, MA
RunAbout Cycles is one-year old company that designs and builds electric
recumbent trikes designed for good clean fun. RunAbout offers the only
recumbent trike with full suspension, reverse and regen braking. Trikes have a
40-mile range and a top speed of 20 mph. They offer an enhanced cycling
experience, with twice the speed of a regular bike, but only have the effort.
www.RunAboutCycles.com.
- - - - - - - - -
#24 GEM Neighborhood Vehicle
NY State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation
Albany, NY
The New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation is
committed t the use of green vehicle in their fleet operations. With over 500
vehicles statewide, the agency has one of the largest fleets of clean fuel
vehicles in the country. Last year, the GEM took first place in the 2-hour
range event for NEVs.
- - - - - - - - -
#21 Solar GEM Neighborhood Vehicle
Project e- 3
Southern Berkshire Regional School District
Sheffield, MA
Mount Everett High School returns to the Tour de Sol with the Vreeland
Institute of Arts and Sciences. Mt. Everett's Project e-^(3) team will bring
its solar electric neighborhood vehicle and recharge its battery from the
Vreeland Institute's mobile alternative energy exhibit, which includes solar
powered alternative energy displays, a fuel cell, wind turbine, wireless
Internet access, web cameras and more!
- - - - - - - - -
TOUR DE SOL CHAMPIONSHIP PROTOTYPE ALTERNATIVE FUEL & HYBRID VEHICLES
#18 H2TOY
Intergalactic Hydrogen
Sandy, UT
Intergalactic Hydrogen provides MADE-IN-USA renewable energy products & cleaner
fuel options that work with today's infrastructure and beyond. We build multi-
fuel, hydrogen, methane, propane, biodiesel and ethanol automobiles and
appliances. We promote the clean fuel revolution through educational workshops
and engineering consultation. We invite you to reduce your footprint on the
plant with American Fuel Vehicles (AFVs) and declare your energy independence.
- - - - - - - - -
#10 Moritz
St. Mark's EV Club
St. Mark's School
Southborough, MA
The Moritz is a new entry to the Tour de Sol, but it will be St. Mark's EV
Club's fifth Tour. The most spectacular aspect of Moritz is how ordinary it
is! Its tank may be filled with reprocessed vegetable oil instead of
petroleum, but this Jetta has an unaltered production turbodiesel engine.
- - - - - - - - -
#2 The Attack
WPHS EV Team
West Philadelphia High School
Philadelphia, PA
The Hybrid Attack was designed as the world's first hybrid super car with 50
mpg and 0-60 time less than 4 seconds. It has a tubular steel frame and carbon
fiber body. A modified VW TDI powers the rear wheels. We plan to make this
vehicle a hybrid next year with an AC Propulsion motor.
- - - - - - - - -
#11 Fledge
DCE Hybrid Car Team
Delhi College
New Delhi, India
The car has been designed to meet the world's need for clean vehicles and suit
the Indian lifestyle and driving conditions. The drive train has been
specially configured to give maximum efficiency and economy. The team
comprises seven mechanical engineering students from Delhi College of
Engineering, the premier engineering institute in India.
- - - - - - - - -
#15 Vegginator
Trenton High School
Trenton, NJ
The Tornado Fuel Masters purchased a 1985 VW Golf in non-running condition.
Students repaired, modified, and designed graphics for the Vegginator. The
students reformulated their inner-city high school's cafeteria fryer grease
into biodiesel, which they are using to run their car.
- - - - - - - - -
#14 Vogelbilt
Carl Vogel
West Babylon, NY
Vogelbilt's 2004 Ford 6.0L Diesel was modified two years ago for increased fuel
economy. Over the past two years it has been driven over 80,000 miles using
only 100% biodiesel. Carl will also bring his electric motorcycle that stared
in the CoolFuelRoadtrip.com.com TV series that will debut April 22, 2006 and
run for
eighteen weeks.
- - - - - - - - -
#38 Greasecar Austin Mini
Greasecar / Madhouse Minis Team
Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems
Easthampton, MA
Greasecar and Madhouse Minis are collaborating on a car that runs on straight
vegetable oil. The 1976 Austin Mini Clubman, with Peugeot 1.5l diesel engine,
will demonstrate the Greasecar Vegetable Fuel System. The conversion kit comes
with everything you need to run on vegetable oil, which is cleaner, safer and
less expensive than petroleum based fuel. www.GreaseCar.com
- - - - - - - - -
#32 Viking 32
Western Washington University Hybrid Club
Western Washington University
Bellingham, WA
With funding from the US Federal Highway Administration, students and faculty
at Western Washington University's Vehicle Research Institute built Viking 32
to demonstrate the first automotive use of carbon-fiber. Viking 32 offers
survivable front impact protection at up to 80 kph. In addition, side impact
and roof strength exceed US Federal motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
- - - - - - - - -
PROTOTYPE BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES
#12 Lorax
Methacton Electric Car Club
Methacton High School
Norristown, PA
The Lorax is named after Dr. Suess's character whose mission was to educate
people about the environment. The Methacton Electric Car Club educates the
public about alternative energy sources one person at a time at our school,
during field trips to nearby schools and at summer camps.
- - - - - - - - -
#16 Phantom Sol
UM Solar Vehicle Team
University of Maine, Orono, Maine
The Phantom Sol was created in 2001 to dispel the myths that electric vehicles
are impractical, weak, expensive and not much fun to drive. Originally a GMC
S15 pickup, this car has been drastically re-engineered to produce an
economical and powerful vehicle with exceptional performance and sleek
appearance.
- - - - - - - - -
#17 The Olympian
Burlington County Electechs
Burlington County Schools, NJ
The Electechs are students of Burlington County Institute of Technology and
Burlington County Community College. The Olympian has been greatly modified
with a revolutionary compound battery that offers an exceptional combination of
power, range and affordability. Left to right: Prof. Jack Braun and Dan
Carson of BCC and Mike Gladney and Eric Kozicki of BCIT.
- - - - - - - - -
#21 Revolution Ride
North Haven Community School
North Haven, ME
Since 2002, when students from Maine's smallest public high school built their
Vanagon Syncro electric vehicle and put it on the road, the van has been an
indispensable daily driver and teaching tool for the school. The 4wd,
7-passenger van is charged by a 5.2kw photovoltaic array installed on the
school and tied into the electric grid.
- - - - - - - - -
#22 EVermont's ECHO-EV
Agency of Natural Resources
Waterbury, VT
This Toyota ECHO conversion was recently designed and built by EVermont. It
has a Solectria drive system and a ZEBRA nickel sodium chloride battery for a
driving range of 100 miles between rechargings. EVermont also hopes to bring
their soon to be delivered Toyota Prius that is being converted to run on
hydrogen.
- - - - - - - - -
PROTOTYPE SOLAR-ASSISTED ELECTRIC VEHICLES
#18 Sunpacer
Jeff Ostroski
Cato-Meridian HS Technology Club
Cato, NY
Since 1992, the Sunpacer has participated in the Tour de Sol every year,
capturing first place in the One-person Solar category 11 times. This student-
engineering project aims to improve vehicle efficiency each year. It presently
has a range of 80 miles, to speed of 60 mph, and a demonstrated efficiency of
over 130 mpg.
- - - - - - - - -
#19 Woodstock
St. Mark's EV Club
St. Mark's School
Southborough, MA
Woodstock is a true Zero Emission Vehicle. The yellow Ford Ranger 4 X 4
was converted to run on battery power by St. Mark's School students Its
batteries recharge overnight with 100% renewable electricity from the grid.
Woodstock also gathers "free" energy from the sun via the 300 watt Evergreen
Solar panels over the cargo bed.
- - - - - - - - -
#20 Keystone
Penn Solar Racing
Pennsylvania State
Philadelphia, PA
Penn Solar Racing is comprised of students from engineering, business and the
liberal arts. We utilize our classroom education in a real world setting to
engineer a fully functional solar car as well as manage resources, advertise
and obtain sponsorship. The team is committed to leadership, teamwork, and
educating the community about alternative energy.
- - - - - - - - -
#7 Zodiac
West Irondequoit Solar Car Team
West Irondequoit High School
Rochester, NY
Zodiac is back for another race. The team is made up of 14 students, 3
advisors, and 3 community volunteers from West Irondequoit High School in
Rochester, NY. The team is also working on a scratch built electric mini
cooper that will be ready to race in 2007. Updates on our progress can be
found at www.IHStechteam.com.
- - - - - - - - -
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #2: What Sort of Person ...?
What sort of person enters the Tour de Sol? Here are some comments of some of
them found in a Tour de Sol press release:
http://www.classic-communications.com/release_5.htm
Drew Gillett, who is entered in "Subdivision 1: Unmodified Hybrids Now on the
Market", is founder and owner of Solar Engineers in Bedford, NH. He says he is
entering an unmodified hybrid to demonstrate that such vehicles are capable of
achieving their EPA estimated gas mileages, which tend to be significantly
higher than actual gas mileages. "My wife and I regularly achieve [the EPA
estimate] in our '02 Prius, and [the Tour de Sol] is an opportunity to show
once again that [our Prius] is still doing the job." He says he's surprised
that the Hollywood crowd, like an increasingly growing number of average
Americans, has taken to hybrids. "I didn't know they were sexy and cool when I
bought one, and I guess they've become that now that gas is three bucks a
gallon and up in places -- and going higher this spring." (To hear an
approximately 1-minute interview with him, by NESEA's Steve D'Agostino, in MP3
format, visit Drew Gillett.)
http://www.bestrateofclimb.com/DrewGillett.mp3
Ricardo Bazzarella, who is in entered in "Subdivision 2: Plug-In Hybrids", is
co-founder, co-owner and president of Hymotion Inc. in Concord, Ontario, which
is producing a kit that can be used to convert a hybrid Toyota Prius or Ford
Escape to a "plug-in hybrid," and reduce the use of gasoline. He says it's no
real trouble to plug in a hybrid each day in order to recharge it. "Gas prices
are going higher and higher every day, and by taking the trouble of plugging in
your [hybrid] car, it gives you that [extra] option," he says. "You take that
standard hybrid vehicle, like the Prius or the Ford Escape, you add more
batteries and, voila, you've got yourself a plug-in hybrid. It gives you an
option to go 50 kilometers in pure electric mode, which is a beautiful thing."
(To hear an approximately 1-minute-30-second interview with him, by NESEA's
Steve D'Agostino, in MP3 format, visit Ricardo Bazzarella.)
http://www.bestrateofclimb.com/RicardoBazzarella.mp3
Michael Dabrowski, who is entered in "Subdivision 2: Insight Modifications", is
founder, owner and operator of Genesis One in North Grosvenordale, CT. He has
been working to convert Honda Insights because they are the most fuel-efficient
hybrid on the market, with an EPA estimated rating of 57 miles per gallon. He
says hybrids can get a lot more miles per gallon than they now achieve.
"Theoretically, if you could put enough batteries onboard any hybrid --
especially with the new generation of batteries that are lightweight and with a
lot of density -- and you could push the electric portion of the hybrid to its
limit, the mileage would go up accordingly." He says he has conducted initial
experiments with his Insight, using new-generation batteries. "I've made
several runs at over 100 miles per gallon -- maybe 110," he says. (To hear an
approximately 2-minute interview with him, by NESEA's Steve D'Agostino, in MP3
format, visit Michael Dabrowski.)
http://www.bestrateofclimb.com/MichaelDabrowski.mp3
Jack Lee, who is entered in "Subdivision 2: Insight Modifications", is founder,
owner and operator of Cannonball Enterprises in Venice, FL. He says you could
get 120 miles per gallon in a Honda Insight if you drive a steady 43 miles per
hour and don't hit any traffic lights -- but that this scenario is not a
realistic one. "I've developed a hybrid turbo -- I guess you could call it a
'hybrid-turbo hybrid' -- that will enhance that [performance]. I can get that
same 120 miles per gallon, but at a faster speed: 48 miles per hour." (To hear
an approximately 2-minute interview with him, by NESEA's Steve D'Agostino, in
MP3 format, visit Jack Lee.)
http://www.bestrateofclimb.com/JackLee.mp3
Justin Carven, who is entered in "Subdivision 3: Vegetable Oil", is founder,
owner and operator of Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems LLC in Easthampton, MA,
which offers a kit to convert a conventional diesel vehicle to run on vegetable
oil. He says it's no more trouble to use vegetable oil than to use biodiesel.
"Vegetable oil as a fuel is, in most cases right now, more readily available
and cheaper to get a hold of than biodiesel tends to be," he says. "Therefore,
a lot of people choose [vegetable oil] as an option so that they can run an
alternative fuel as well as save money." (To hear an approximately 2-minute
interview with him, by NESEA's Steve D'Agostino, in MP3 format, visit Justin
Carven.)
http://www.bestrateofclimb.com/JustinCarven.mp3
Carl Vogel, who is entered in "Subdivision 3: Biodiesel", is founder, owner and
CEO of Vogelbilt Corp. in West Babylon, NY. He says biodiesel is very cost-
effective. "With the tax incentives now, the price of biodiesel has come down
to what we're paying at the pump [for gasoline]," he says. He says this trend
is causing increasingly more consumers to switch from gasoline to biodiesel.
"Now that the [biodiesel] prices are the same [as] or less [than gasoline],
it's really an easy decision." (To hear an approximately 1-minute-30-second
interview with him, by NESEA's Steve D'Agostino, in MP3 format, visit Carl
Vogel.)
http://www.bestrateofclimb.com/CarlVogel.mp3
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
LAST POST on the subject by me ....
i was helped, encouraged, discouraged and roughed up a bit too .. i can take
all that .. i've been in rougher lists .. still am there !
so here's ending the search about comments on EMB's
i did some 'research' as advised by some stalwarts here .. ALL the archives
.. and turned up the discussion on EMB's in a total of THREE posts .. it was
a really painfully slow process .. wading thru thousands and thousands of
emails .. with the search options turning up wierd results for 'emb' ..
don't laugh .. it really happened : decEMBer septEMBer mEMBer
assEMBly
but it did give me the three EMB posts too .. rather stale, old .. but nice
pointers
21 nov 2003 .. by Martin Klingensmith :
"The energy efficiency IN/OUT of these devices is compelling. Great point
about the motor/generator size requirement being on par with the vehicle
drive motor itself---except that there is the option to build many small
modular EMBs (think EMB battery black boxes"
19 Nov 2003 .. by Myles Twete, Portland, Or. :
".. last time I looked the projections for chemical battery storage
densities in kwh/cuft or kwh/# were at least a decade order of magnitude
less than the capacity of flywheel energy storage systems. With
advancements in electronics and controls performance and packaging, we can
likely expect a lot with this in the future..."
(means that chemical battery is 10 times lesser in storage capacity..he also
mentions rpm's of 150,000 .. and LLNL's comment that EMB's look more
promising than advanced batteries, ultracapacitors)
19 Nov 2003 .. by Myles again :
where he quotes NASA Tech "...Composite flywheels provide benefits over
low-speed flywheels and chemical batteries, like a smaller and lighter
package, longer life, and less waste"
CONCLUSIONS :
after visiting all the makers websites which were mentioned in one pdf and
having read all the three posts .. i guess the time for EMB's as the full
battery pack to power the EV is not possible .. for now !
WATCH :
i will however watch out what the 'experts' said in the EESAT2005 conference
in oct 2005 :
"A paper describing the locomotive propulsion system and discussing the
critical technical challenges presented by the flywheel energy storage
system and the solutions developed by the CEM team, "Challenges and
Solutions for the Use of Flywheel Energy Storage in High Power
Applications," by John Herbst, Matthew Caprio, Angelo Gattozzi, and Carl
Graf, was presented at the Electrical Energy Storage Applications and
Technologies Conference (EESAT 2005) in October 2005."
lot of time has passed by .. oil prices skyrocketted .. search for
alternatives has accelerated .. newer materials have been discovered ..
maybe EMB's will power or not power the EV .. time surely will tell
this thread ENDS HERE !
thank you very much .. for now i was able to get answers and commentaries on
my first ever question here
..peekay
(battery assisted bikes use very small batteries .. smaller than a normal
car battery .. maybe they will use the smallest EMB which can easily replace
a car battery .. we never thought that segaway would power the IT with AA
rechargeable batteries .. now it is history)
(ONE thing i loved to read about EMB .. it can be revved up in minutes .. by
accepting huge current loads .. instant charging .. almost)
___________________________________________________________
Win tickets to the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/fifaworldcup_uk/
--- End Message ---
