EV Digest 5485
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Brushless turnkey system available
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Vectrix
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Motor Temp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Prius Taxi
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV Batteries
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motor Temp
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Question about NIMH patent(s)
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) are there any incentives to install EV charging in a mall?
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) circuit breaker use in EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) 48v Piranha Burn Out
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: circuit breaker use in EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: circuit breaker use in EV
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: are there any incentives to install EV charging in a mall?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Prius Taxi
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Question about NIMH patent(s)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Question about NIMH patent(s)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) No reason to go for them. (Was: Re: Question about NIMH patent(s))
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Newbies at 5thEVer 2006
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Prius Taxi
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Vectrix
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Prius Taxi
by "Joe Wasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) AC vs. DC
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: AC vs. DC
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) New Netgain TransWarp 11
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: No reason to go for them. (Was: Re: Question about NIMH patent(s))
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: New Netgain TransWarp 11
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Question about NIMH patent(s)
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Be careful what you wish for..
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: New Netgain TransWarp 11
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I was at Todd Kollin's Electricmotorsports in Oakland the other day and saw
a very intersting brushless system. It was complete and all you needed to
do was add batteries. Todd figured it was easier for the end user if he did
the wiring and offered it completely setup & bench tested. Some of Todds
creations are very peppy and this has the potential with regen to be very
useable for scooters & small motorcycles. He has a 90 and a 200 watt unit.
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ He said he was changing the site to show
the system but all I could find was NOW AVAILABLE WITH AC DRIVE. He wants
1000 & 1200 respectively for the two levels of power. Seems like a good
deal. Haven't seen it in action yet but it's supposed to be the brushless
ETEK. Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I'm not mistaken, I seem to recall that Ken Trough may have taken a ride
on an earlier, less refined prototype of the bike a while back. If so,
maybe he could chime in or you could contact him to ask his opinion.
Charles
On Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:34 AM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Did anyone on the list get a ride? If so what are your thoughts? Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Vectrix
You should be able to get one to your door in Texas hopefully sometime in
the next year to year and a half, based on the latest we've heard from
Vectrix. Vectrix brought two of their bikes to the Miami Beach Earth
Expo
two weeks ago, gave test rides on Ocean Drive, set up their initial South
Florida dealer network, and gave us (in the Florida EAA) an update on
their
progress. In addition to their 18 existing prototype bikes, they started
their 50-bike pilot production run at their 30,000 sq.ft. New Bedford,
Massachusetts factory on May 1, which they will complete in two weeks.
They
are launching full production at their 32,000 sq.ft. Wroclaw, Poland
factory
in October at a rate of several hundred bikes per month. As they have
around 15,000 existing pre-production orders in Europe versus around
3,000
here in the US, the lion's share of the first year of production will be
committed to European order fulfillment but with a small share of bikes
coming off the Polish production line diverted to seeding the US market
and
beginning to fulfill orders here for early adopters on a
first-come/first-served basis, based on when US retail customers signed
up
on Vectrix's pre-production order sign-up form on their website.
Shipping
logistics have already been worked out and put in place. DOT and
European
homologation have been completed. The US factory in New Bedford, MA
likely
won't be fired up until a year after the Polish plant is turned up, so
expect sometime in late 2007. If you signed up on Vectrix's US
pre-production order form on their website in 2004 to mid 2005, you can
expect to get your (Polish-assembled) bike in early-to-mid 2007.
Otherwise
you'll probably have to wait until late 2007 or early 2008 to get your
bike.
Charles Whalen
On Monday, May 15, 2006 6:51 AM, Mark Hastings wrote:
I just want to know how to get one to my door in texas. That would be
wonderful for my wifes commute and she really likes it. There seems to be
nothing else on two wheeled like that available that can go 55mph, or for
that matter three or four wheeled for a reasonable price.
Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/765 Seems it is no longer vaporware.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Mark E. Hanson" wrote:
> I was curious about my motor operating at 100C (212F) case temp
> after 1 hour of operation.
Ouch! That's too hot.
If your situation is such that the motor runs at low rpm much of the
time, then the internal fan won't be doing much good. Add an external
blower to provide extra cooling.
Or, find a way to reduce motor current, perhaps by changing your gearing
to raise motor rpm.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just saw my first Late model Prius yesterday, all decked out as a Taxi
Cab. I wonder if someone has the guts to make a RAV4 into a taxi?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The little dc-dc is what I am refering to. Mine is the Emeter brand of
dc-dc converter. It's indash mounted so it's tough to get to the
wiring for a measurement. Any idea what current yours is pulling?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The "main" DC-DC is integrated into the controller, it is on only
when the
> controller is on while driving. For the emeter, I have a little
DC-DC from
> the accessory battery to isolate the circuit. So it could be a
combination
> of the emeter and the little dc-dc.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: May 16, 2006 7:14 AM
> To: Don Cameron
> Subject: Re: EV Batteries
>
> Don,
>
> On your Emeter. It it the dc-dc suppling the Emeter that is draining
the 12v
> acc batt or the Emeter itself? I've not measured the idle current on
mine.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <ev@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jerry, it has been a year now, and the batteries are working out
> quite
> > well. I do not have any individual regulators, just the PFC-30
> charger. I
> > checked the balance last month and they were most within 0.02 of a
> volt of
> > the average. There are two batteries within 0.1 volt of the
> average, so I
> > just supplemental charge these ones. I keep a log of battery
> > voltages/temperatures and none have shown themselves to be "bad
> apples" yet.
> >
> > I like these batteries as I did not need to purchase any balancing
> > equipment. The only drawback is that they only deliver a max
> current of 250
> > Amps. But at 326 Volts, the max 200-250 Amps is more than enough to
> give
> > the car good performance for commuting.
> >
> > It turns out I do not drive to work each day, so I have only been
> driving it
> > about twice a week. I am dissapointed on how the E-Meter drains
> accessory
> > batteries, so I have to unplug the accessory battery after each drive.
> >
> > That's about it!
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jerry halstead
> > Sent: May 16, 2006 4:51 AM
> > To: Don Cameron
> > Subject: EV Batteries
> >
> > Hi Don,
> >
> > Ran across your entry/website in the EVAlbum in my search for
> > batteries and was wondering how the Deka batteries are working out?
> > I need to pick out batteries for my EV and the Deka/MK gels is
> looking like
> > a good choice for my short commute.
> >
> > Do you have any individual battery control monitor/bypasses (i.e.
> > rudman regulators) or does it only use the charger?
> >
> > Thanks for any info you can share.
> >
> > -Jerry
> >
> > Jerry Halstead
> > http://www.evconvert.com/
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
There should be two small No. 16 gage wires coming out of this motor that
comes from a Thermo Disc that is embedded into one of the field windings, or
attach to the inside surface of the motor. If not, than you can attach a
Thermo Disc to the motor to the inside of the motor casing.
I have a GE 11 inch, 32 hp at 175 volts at 165 amps on a 180 volt battery
pack that has a Thermo Disc inside the motor that opens at 140 degrees F.
and closes at 125 degrees F.
These are standard Thermo Disc you can get at a heating supply place or may
even Home Depot.
The motor has a Dayton 6 inch 150 CFM blower that can operated at any
voltage from 12 vdc to the pack voltage. It is bolted directly to the brush
cover with a rubber gasket. The exhaust port has square flanges that can be
bent to the shape of the motor. A 6 inch carburetor filter can be attach to
the inlet of the fan.
With the fan off, the motor temperature would climb to about 140 degrees F.
if the ambient air is above 100 degrees. With the fan on, the motor
temperature will stay about 30 degrees over ambient when test driving the EV
for over 1000 miles in 24 hours which was done at 70 degrees ambient for 60
minutes runs at a average of 45 mph over the entire distance.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: Motor Temp
> Hi,
>
> I was curious about my motor operating at 100C (212F) case temp after 1
> hour of operation. It was rewound by Warfield class-H insulation 180C but
> the field is original. It's a 36V Schaef 6.7" ADC knockoff used in my
> 2100lb 72V Cushman. It has a vane fan at one end and was curious if
> there's a way to improve efficiency or if it's worth putting on a cooling
> blower. What's the general motor case temp of a similar motor in a
> similar application?
>
> Thanks, Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
> rates starting at 1¢/min.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not to mention that those of us not in California were automatically
excluded.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 10:18:47 -0700
On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 08:33:30AM -0700, David Murphy wrote:
> I agree that this price doesn't tell you much about the broader
> market. However, I'd like to share my own experience trying to get
> info on one of these when it was for sale.
Wow, this is eerily similar to the experience I had when trying to get a
RAV4 EV.
I was looking at one on the lot, and a sales man came over and told me the
gas version of the RAV was much better!
He then said that the RAV4 EV is not nearly as reliable as most Toyota
products, and because of this there is no extended warranty to be had.
I then jokingly asked if he does not make a commission on these cars, and he
told me that customers who are upset with the RAV4EV take it out on there
sales men.
I told him I was still interested, and asked if I could take a test drive.
I was never able to take a test drive, or even get started on the purchase
process.
Perhaps if I was more persistent, I would have gotten one? This was in early
2003, when the program was basically over.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
Does anybody know the date on the NIMH patent(s)? I'm curious how
long they can tie up this technology... I don't remember how long
they have exclusive rights, but I think there is a time limit!
One of these days their patent rights are gonna expire and then it'll
be open season on auto size NIMH battery packs! I can't wait...can we
speed up the process?
thanks
T
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
I find myself in the enviable position of being able to bring this
concept(EV Charging) to the decision process of a mall in orange
county. Can anyone give me some amunition on this concept? What
perks are there for the mall? Costs? Benifits? In Downey?
T
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From Ben Fratto
Does one have working experience with the Heineman circuit breaker in an
electric vehicle:
Circuit Breaker, Heinemann #GJ1-B3-DU0250-01C, 160 VDC, 250 amps
continuous, 1000 amps peak.
This one seems slightly underpowered for heavy foot 22 seconds at 500 Amps.
Other than that limitation, do they work without nuisance, and work when
they need to work, in emergencies?
as opposed to the old fashioned anderson connector with lever in the cabin
with high voltage current flowing through next to passenger
the EVtruck still has time delay fuses, this would be additional, and
primarily for emergency disconnect
link to sales specs if you like
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=1069&product_id=1451
Thank you, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For your viewing pleasure:
http://snipurl.com/gilbert
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
New Electric Motorcycle ListServ
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Circuit Breaker, Heinemann #GJ1-B3-DU0250-01C, 160 VDC, 250 amps
> continuous, 1000 amps peak. This one seems slightly underpowered
> for heavy foot 22 seconds at 500 Amps. Other than that limitation,
> do they work without nuisance, and work when they need to work,
> in emergencies?
If this is for a normal on-the-road EV, a 250 amp continuous rating
should be satisfactory. Remember that this is battery current, which is
always less than or equal to motor current. Your controller might have a
500 amp motor current limit, but battery current will be significantly
less.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't be without one in a DC conversion, which
can fail in a full-on mode.
Mine is mounted under the handbrake, conveniently
enough, extending through the center tunnel. If I
recall correctly, the 72V Ford Ranger I helped build
ran the cable through the firewall to activate it,
and that was never an issue.
I am running 144V, and CivicWithACord pulls up to 400A
from a dead stop, though not usually for more than 4
sec. I have never set it off from too much current,
nor has it gone off at 250A for extended freeway
driving. Rather I have manually activated it whenever
working on batteries.
No issues with it, ever.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >From Ben Fratto
>
> Does one have working experience with the Heineman
> circuit breaker in an
> electric vehicle:
>
> Circuit Breaker, Heinemann #GJ1-B3-DU0250-01C, 160
> VDC, 250 amps
> continuous, 1000 amps peak.
> This one seems slightly underpowered for heavy foot
> 22 seconds at 500 Amps.
> Other than that limitation, do they work without
> nuisance, and work when
> they need to work, in emergencies?
>
> as opposed to the old fashioned anderson connector
> with lever in the cabin
> with high voltage current flowing through next to
> passenger
>
> the EVtruck still has time delay fuses, this would
> be additional, and
> primarily for emergency disconnect
>
> link to sales specs if you like
>
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=1069&product_id=1451
>
> Thank you, Ben
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure. EVs have shorter range than gas burners. In
families like mine where the mall is close to the
envelope of range, the charging station might be the
difference between going to it and unloading my wallet
in their shops, versus needing to wait until the other
family member got back, or not going to the mall at
all, but rather a more local shop for what I need.
Charging takes time, and ensures that a customer will
be in the mall for that duration; preferably during a
meal!
peace (& good luck selling the idea).
-An ex-OC resident,
--- Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi
> I find myself in the enviable position of being able
> to bring this
> concept(EV Charging) to the decision process of a
> mall in orange
> county. Can anyone give me some amunition on this
> concept? What
> perks are there for the mall? Costs? Benifits? In
> Downey?
> T
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 May 2006 at 8:15, Mike Phillips wrote:
> I wonder if someone has the guts to make a RAV4 into a taxi?
As an EV advocate, I hate to say this - but if I were a cab firm or driver, I'd
be
hesitant to adopt a vehicle that (1) was irreplaceable and had an uncertain
support future; (2) had apparently high intrinsic value; and (3) might not be
able to handle some longer distance fares, especially late in the day.
Imagine you're a frazzled traveler, trying to get to the next town. How would
you feel if you were standing in the pouring rain and flagged a taxi, only to
be
told when you got in that the cab didn't have enough energy left to take you
to your destination?
OTOH, a RAV might be just the ticket for a "green" company to use for
impressing visitors. The Finnish EV conversion company Elcat used to
suggest that very application for their vehicles on their website.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 May 2006 at 12:56, Tom Watson wrote:
> One of these days their patent rights are gonna expire and then it'll be
> open season on auto size NIMH battery packs!
Sure, but by then, lithium will have long since eaten their lunch in the large
capacity world. Forget NiMH for EVs; it's already history.
I would guess that Chevron is satisfied with the money they make from small-
format NiMH - the millions (?) of NiMH AA cells that are sold yearly for
digital
cameras, mp3 players, etc., etc. And of course they don't want to
encourage the use of their technology in EVs - that would be bad for their
principal business, and they'd make only nominal license fees. Even Prius-
style hybrids reduce demand for their main product.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Uncertain. Chevron-Texaco owns rights to Ovhinovski's
design, IIRC. SAFT has a NiMH product out, too.
Hope that helps in your search, though I think LiPo
will run over them way before patents end...
--- Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Does anybody know the date on the NIMH patent(s)?
> I'm curious how
> long they can tie up this technology... I don't
> remember how long
> they have exclusive rights, but I think there is a
> time limit!
>
> One of these days their patent rights are gonna
> expire and then it'll
> be open season on auto size NIMH battery packs! I
> can't wait...can we
> speed up the process?
>
> thanks
> T
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before that happens Lithium has already been adobted broadly in vehicles.
CHINA(!) government has strong and positive opinion on EVs. And when
they have decided to do it.. it will happen.
Governmental programs showel money over $1 billion every year for Ev
industry. Some cars and other vehicles are going to be legal even in
world wide use.
What surprises me everytime I go there is how many thousand EVs I can
see on the streets in daily use. It is an example we should follow.
Electric scooter (EVT-like) cost around $200 in Walmart near by Hong
Kong. Some of them are pure crap but there are diamonds too. Price is
low due gov support.
-Jukka
fevt.com
Tom Watson kirjoitti:
Hi
Does anybody know the date on the NIMH patent(s)? I'm curious how
long they can tie up this technology... I don't remember how long
they have exclusive rights, but I think there is a time limit!
One of these days their patent rights are gonna expire and then it'll
be open season on auto size NIMH battery packs! I can't wait...can we
speed up the process?
thanks
T
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow! What a weekend! As newbies, this was our first EV event and what a
blast. Too bad about the High Voltage Nationals and Expo rain-out, but, the
fun
was no washout!
It was great to meet everyone. Our first contact was Bob Rice. We drove by
Warfield Electric early so we would know where to go for the tour. We went
inside to ask about the afternoon tour. About that time Bob came in to
transfer
batteries from his van to the Led Sled. Then Jerry Warfield came out and
gave us a personal tour of the factory. Then we chatted with Bob and admired
his
vehicle literature while he installed the batteries.
Prior to this weekend, I only knew some of the EV people from Internet posts
and websites. So I was very eager to meet some of the people I have read
about. I learned that John Wayland certainly holds to his classic form; after
the
announcement and enormous let down of the raceway rain-out, after the
confirmation that the race is dead -- no options -- period. John broke the
cloud of
gloom weighing down on the crowed when he announced from the back of the room,
"We are going to burn some rubber tomorrow...". I almost cried.
And so it was - May 13, 2006, rubber was burned. The Pep Boys parking lot
gathering was so much fun and very informative. I don't think I have ever
attended a parking lot car show where burnouts were conducted. I guess the
quiet
EV's help with that! Most of the car shows I attend involve standing around
gawking at parked cars. This one had ACTION! Even the gawking part was
exciting because the machines are not off-the-shelf hot rods. They are all
built by
pioneers in a major turning point in human history.
Many thanks to everyone at this event. It was a real blast!
Ken & Heidi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Right. But.. In normal drive-cycle a taxi (at least in here) drives
about 300 km in a day. Two shifts and over night charge. During day
there can be a quick charge. one hour should be enough for full charge.
This would of course require charging station.
For longer trip (over 100 km) you will have to pay ridiculous amounts of
money. It is more resonable to take bus or train.
Btw.. no body "waves" for taxi anymore. I believe over 50 % is sammoned
with cell phone. Rest are in city short trips from taxi stop.
Elcat has been succesfully used in many daily routine trips for
commercial and private use since 1990 (or so). Simple little van with
capability to take a good load.
Unfortunately it has also been hit hard due the limited range.
Manufacturing has been seased and rest of the Elcat is struggling to
find better future.
Lithium batteries are now available for those vans (With BMS). BUT ...
Most of the made 250 vehicles are worn out and no new version is in
sight. No one plunges 5 times more monay to new batteries what the car
is worth.
There is just no good donors due OEM dis-interest.
-Jukka
fevt.com
David Roden (Akron OH USA) kirjoitti:
On 16 May 2006 at 8:15, Mike Phillips wrote:
I wonder if someone has the guts to make a RAV4 into a taxi?
As an EV advocate, I hate to say this - but if I were a cab firm or driver, I'd be
hesitant to adopt a vehicle that (1) was irreplaceable and had an uncertain
support future; (2) had apparently high intrinsic value; and (3) might not be
able to handle some longer distance fares, especially late in the day.
Imagine you're a frazzled traveler, trying to get to the next town. How would
you feel if you were standing in the pouring rain and flagged a taxi, only to be
told when you got in that the cab didn't have enough energy left to take you
to your destination?
OTOH, a RAV might be just the ticket for a "green" company to use for
impressing visitors. The Finnish EV conversion company Elcat used to
suggest that very application for their vehicles on their website.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are there any superb details in RAV4 EV that differs it from diesel one
? Other than propulsion.
If such diesel car would be equipped and converted with AC drive and 50
kWh Lion pack. Would that do the trick ?
I've noticed that it is challenging to crack exsisting systems in OEM
EVs. It is fun but takes too much precious time. No OEM has up to this
date been willing to assist in Lion uprgading. Shame...
-JJ
fevt.com
p.s.- just for fun... check this application http://www.amoy.fi/actioneco/
... Now.. we end the era of ICE....
Mike Phillips kirjoitti:
I bet the BMS would be the tough part in adding Lithium to a Rav.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 11:28:47PM -0400, Charles Whalen wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:32 PM, Cowtown wrote:
What I'd like to know is where did they get large-capacity NiMH cells
- I thought no-one was currently licensed to make them...or has that
changed?
<..snip..>
... There is only one small exception to that,
specifically in the case of Panasonic, which came out of the patent
infringement lawsuit that Panasonic lost to Cobasys in an
international
court of arbitration in June 2004. In that June 2004 judgment, and as
subsequently amended in July 2005, Panasonic is permitted to
manufacture new
EV-95 95Ah NiMH batteries solely for existing Toyota RAV-EVs that
experience
battery failures, under warranty, and only under warranty, until
the last of
those warranties expire, on September 14, 2008, at which time
Panasonic is
no longer permitted to produce *any* EV-95 batteries or any NiMH
battery
with a capacity greater than 10Ah until January 1, 2015.
Wow.
I hope we have a Liion upgrade for the RAV4EV ready for when these
packs start
getting tired and the warranties are out.
Speaking of which, How far would a RAV with Lithium go?
Has anybody tried a non-stock pack in there RAV yet? Did it work?
Well, that's a long answer to a short question, but it's a complex
subject.
Hope that helps to explain it.
Yea, thanks for the extremely detailed and informative post!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another issue is that in a lot of places the cab itself has a license
or permit. Generally someone gets a taxi badge and drives the vehicle
for one shift then hands off the vehicle to another driver for another
shift (charging that driver money). This maximizes the revenue
generated off of a single, hard-to-obtain, permit. That means that
frequently cabs are driven round-the-clock and a 4-5 hour charge means
money that isn't being made.
On 5/16/06, David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 16 May 2006 at 8:15, Mike Phillips wrote:
> I wonder if someone has the guts to make a RAV4 into a taxi?
As an EV advocate, I hate to say this - but if I were a cab firm or driver, I'd
be
hesitant to adopt a vehicle that (1) was irreplaceable and had an uncertain
support future; (2) had apparently high intrinsic value; and (3) might not be
able to handle some longer distance fares, especially late in the day.
Imagine you're a frazzled traveler, trying to get to the next town. How would
you feel if you were standing in the pouring rain and flagged a taxi, only to be
told when you got in that the cab didn't have enough energy left to take you
to your destination?
OTOH, a RAV might be just the ticket for a "green" company to use for
impressing visitors. The Finnish EV conversion company Elcat used to
suggest that very application for their vehicles on their website.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok people,
I am new to the whole EV thing and am looking to get started with a
conversion. The one thing that perplexes me at the moment is the AC vs. DC
technology. Right now at this moment in time which is the better
technology?
Any help would be great.
Thanks,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rick, this is a very common topic, that seems to come up about once a month
or so. Please look at the FAQ at www.evparts.com/faq and also search the
archives.
I also have a review of the two on my web site: www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Todd
Sent: May 16, 2006 12:39 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: AC vs. DC
Ok people,
I am new to the whole EV thing and am looking to get started with a
conversion. The one thing that perplexes me at the moment is the AC vs. DC
technology. Right now at this moment in time which is the better
technology?
Any help would be great.
Thanks,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Had a great time in Chicago, even though the races were cancelled.
Finally got to put some faces to all the e-mails I have been reading over
the years.
I got to talk with Dennis Bieschke from NetGain and he gave me a flyer on
the new TransWarp 11 Motor that was developed for Direct Drive Applications.
Does anyone have any history or opinions on this motor ?
Would one motor reduce the number of contactors needed to supply reverse?
Can a series/parallel setup still be done with 1 motor?
Does it gain you anything?
Sorry for all the questions;
Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, this most likely will be the case.
However, NiMH technology has two big advantages over Lithium:
1. No shelf life issues
2. No expensive BMS required (they are designed to deal
with overcharge and overdischarge on their own, e.g.
self-balanced).
These problems may go away when Lithium technology improves
far enough, but that may happen well after NiMH patenting
ownership expires, so this technology may have its place too.
Victor
Jukka Järvinen wrote:
Before that happens Lithium has already been adobted broadly in vehicles.
CHINA(!) government has strong and positive opinion on EVs. And when
they have decided to do it.. it will happen.
Governmental programs showel money over $1 billion every year for Ev
industry. Some cars and other vehicles are going to be legal even in
world wide use.
What surprises me everytime I go there is how many thousand EVs I can
see on the streets in daily use. It is an example we should follow.
Electric scooter (EVT-like) cost around $200 in Walmart near by Hong
Kong. Some of them are pure crap but there are diamonds too. Price is
low due gov support.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
I got to talk with Dennis Bieschke from NetGain and he gave me a flyer on
the new TransWarp 11 Motor that was developed for Direct Drive Applications.
Does anyone have any history or opinions on this motor ?
Since its new.. I doubt many. ;-)
Would one motor reduce the number of contactors needed to supply reverse?
Look at the schematics on Cafe Electric's website. Normally it requires
one reversing contactor per motor.
Can a series/parallel setup still be done with 1 motor?
Not normally..
However in this case the 11" motor has two sets of field coils, but only
one armature. So series/parallel shifting of the fields will work, but
that will not be nearly as effective as series parallel shifting of two
independent motors (or two motors in one case). You will also be able
to get away with only one reversing contactor.
Does it gain you anything?
It is a convienent package.. and solving the output issue for you is
handy.. but DC direct drive has been discussed on this list in the past
and generally it is not a good idea except for the most extreme race
vehicles. (It requires bigger controllers, a lot more complexity, cost etc)
Stick with a transmission unless you know better.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 05/16/06 at 11:06 you wrote:
On 16 May 2006 at 12:56, Tom Watson wrote:
> One of these days their patent rights are gonna expire and then
it'll be
> open season on auto size NIMH battery packs!
Sure, but by then, lithium will have long since eaten their lunch in
the large
capacity world. Forget NiMH for EVs; it's already history.
I would guess that Chevron is satisfied with the money they make from
small-
format NiMH - the millions (?) of NiMH AA cells that are sold yearly
for digital
cameras, mp3 players, etc., etc. And of course they don't want to
encourage the use of their technology in EVs - that would be bad for
their
principal business, and they'd make only nominal license fees. Even
Prius-
style hybrids reduce demand for their main product.
And yet, they provide batteries for Prius style hybrids, and they allow
them to be made with royalty fees paid (Sanyo makes them for Ford, for
example) and they manufacture and sell large format NiMH batteries. You
can even buy them from Saft.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We started Left Coast Conversions to do some
conversions here in Los Angeles and raise public
awareness for electric vehicles. The vision started to
grow and took on a life of it's own. Well now, we are
raising capitol to really do this right, we are
planing on going public this year, and will be
negotiating licenses with some of our suppliers to
manufacture in house to have parts in stock and ready
to go. And we are designing new products to make
conversions much simpler. This will benefit everyone.
If you are already a seller of parts for EV's, you can
become a dealer. I don't want to cut anyone out. I am
much better off with a system of dealers in place.
The new trailer for Who Killed the Electric Car is out
at
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
I have a little shot in it where the announcer asks
"who do you think killed the electric car?" and I say
"I think it's big oil". I hope that doesn't get a
contract out on me. LOL. but I do get to talk about
doing conversions so people know we are in business.
We also had a little blurb in the LA weekly titled
"Who Resurrected the Electric Car?". That should go
into a full blown article in the next few weeks.
And I had KABC news here doing an interview yesterday,
which I thought would be a little snippet on the
evening news...I was told it was going to be a
"piece", whatever that is. I was interviewed for a
full two hours.
We also have Tommy Chong's car (Cheech and Chong, that
70's show)in the shop. As soon as we iron out the
contracts, we will start the conversion. It is a 1946
Oldsmobile lowrider. It will be used in Tommy's new
movie. It is written into the script as an ICE beater.
Comedy will be the medium to showcase EV's. We are
negotiating to have the car as a featured vehicle at
the SEMA show in Las Vegas in November, and at the CES
in January, also in Los Vegas.
Things have been going so well, that I think I might
just wear out my goosebump reflex. Is that possible?
There are even more things in the works, and I will
post them here as they become reality. What a wild
ride this is....
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 4:26 PM -0500 5/16/06, Mark Farver wrote:
Look at the schematics on Cafe Electric's website. Normally it
requires one reversing contactor per motor.
Actually there is a method that Lee Hart originally thought up which
allows reversing one of the two motors, assuming you are also
switching them in series parallel with another SW202A contactor set.
It saves one set of contactors in return for only half the torque in
reverse. Matt Graham recently recreated the circuit and made a
drawing of it. So it is available if someone wants to do that.
Stick with a transmission unless you know better.
Mark
I agree.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
