EV Digest 5498
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Regen
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: A123 batteries
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV digest 5496
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Question about NIMH patent(s)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Regen
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV safety
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: A123 batteries
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Donor Car Recommendations for EV Conversion
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV safety
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: White Zombie terrorizes quiet hillbilly community in Idaho
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) CA DMV
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Any useful parts from generators?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: AC vs. DC {getting long}
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Front-Wheel or Rear-Wheel Drive
by Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) single drive wheel for go cart?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: AC vs. DC {getting long}
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: CA DMV
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Front-Wheel or Rear-Wheel Drive
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Regen
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: CA DMV
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Roger,
I missed my point though. I think that not only would you feel it but that
under heavy acceleration it would push really hard to the opposite side from
the drive wheel, Dangerously so!
Mark Grasser
78 #358
BIG REDs
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: Three-wheel Go-cart
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Probably 90%(perhaps more) of the go-karts (gas and electric)
out there only drive one of the rear wheels.
I don't think this is correct. Every go kart I've seen has a solid rear
axle, so while there is only a single driven sproket on the rear axle,
both rear wheels are driven.
This is why go kart driving technique involves leaning in the corners;
you want to unload one rear wheel so it can spin because both are driven
and there is no differential.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill: My only examples of "go carts" was in building a 3 wheel EV bike. (I
prefer bikes to go-carts, because they are legal as a bike locally... no
legal hassles.)
Mine was fairly low powered. I used a hub motor and 48V in batts, so there
was no prob w/ connecting. I suppose, if you had a *lot* of power, single
wheel drive might matter. Even on ice, it didn't make a difference for this
rig.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:03 AM
Subject: Three-wheel Go-cart
> A friend of my is building a three-wheel go-cart (two wheels rear, one
wheel
> front) and wants to make it electric. His current design has an electric
> motor driving only one of the rear wheels. My initial thought is that
this
> will make the vehicle want to pull to one side.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
Is this a feature that is found only in the Toyota Prius or is it also
available as a retrofit for EVers (either AC or DC)?
Thanks,
Ralph.
Cor van de Water wrote:
True,
Regen should be OFF until you are below 80% SOC and/or
configured to respect a max pack voltage and throttle back,
the Prius does it by reducing and eventually disabling
regeneration based on SOC.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Regen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Once again a question that may spark debate: Is the amount of energy
re-cooped from braking sufficient to off set the additional weight gain
of the regen itself?
Ralph,
There has been discussion in the past about regen, and the benefit is
claimed to be about 5% additional range with the right circumstances.
My Geo Prizm used to have a Zapi H2 controller with regen. The additional
weight consisted of a couple of contactors - hardly a penalty.
As for any real benefit, my commute at the time was 26 miles round trip,
with a long uphill climb on the freeway going to work (and the long coast
on the way home). The trip used about 66 amp hours. On a good day with
the traffic moving just right, I could coast all the way down the hill on
the freeway in the evening, and the pack would get about 2 amp hours put
back in. On most days though, traffic prevented me from coasting and I
didn't see much regen. I had no way to measure the regen during the
balance of the trip (stop-n-go traffic, etc).
One problem I had with regen was with a fully charged pack and any downhill
sections of the road. I had to keep my foot lightly on the pedal to keep
the controller out of regen mode or else the pack voltage would go too high.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
V28 are not A123 batteries (3,2V2,3AH with 100C burst power)
they are E-moly cells (3.7V3AH with 30C burst power)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 4:44 PM
Subject: A123 batteries
> Does anyone know how or where to purchase A123 M1 LiIon batteries?
>
> The company didn't return my email inquiring about them. I could "reverse
> engineer" some V28s but can't even get one of these shipped from the US to
> Australia (where I am). There may be safety issues involved.
>
> Regards, Rod Dilkes
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Grasser wrote:
> I missed my point though. I think that not only would you
> feel it but that under heavy acceleration it would push
> really hard to the opposite side from the drive wheel,
> Dangerously so!
Perhaps; since I only have personal experience with karts that drive
both wheels, I'm not going refrain from speculating about what might
happen with one wheel driven.
> http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
Having read the list of repairs you've performed on your 928, I have to
wonder if you've seen Al Godfrey's latest car:
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/455>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes that's part of it, but also for me, it is much
more simple, and dependable to mount it that way. all
I had to do was make a flange to mount the units face
to face and then mount a coupler on each shaft. no
pulleys belts or adjustments and no friction losses to
the belt.
Gadget
> > Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:33:31 -0400
> From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: AC vs. DC - Gadget Regen
>
> Is the reason for mounting the DC regen off of the
> shaft of the motor
> simply to avoid additional frictional forces that
> would be encountered
> had the regen been mounted to either side of motor?
>
> Just an observation.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ralph.
>
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pb = $1000/ton
Ni = $40,000/ton
Li = $60,000/ton
Cheap is relative ;)
I hope nimh makes a come back too.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> One of these days their patent rights are gonna expire and then
> >> it'll be open season on auto size NIMH battery packs!
>
> > Sure, but by then, lithium will have long since eaten their lunch in
> > the large capacity world. Forget NiMH for EVs; it's already history.
>
> The nimh cell is really quite a nice design. It (mostly) uses abundant,
> inexpensive materials (nickel, iron, potassium hydroxide, and water). It
> is cheaper than lithium based cells. It is the most environmentally
> friendly rechargeable battery; easy to recycle, and the least harmful
> when idiots throw them in landfills. They've been practical to mass
> produce, and have proven to have a very long life when not abused.
>
> The main thing holding it back has been the patent and licensing
> restrictions. If/when this goes away (patents expire), nimh could easily
> have a rebirth!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One advantage I had with my first EV call Transformer I, that it weigh 7850
lbs and did better with mechanical REGEN than with battery regen.
Here in Montana with the roller coaster hills, I have travel over 5 miles
with no additional power apply to a EV or even to a ICE traveling over this
course.
For about 14 years, I have travel to work up a long 2 mile 20%+ grade that
rises over 600 feet in that distance. Before I get to the base of this
hill, I would take the EV up 65 to 70 mph down a slight hill before this big
hill and roller coast up about halfway slowing down to 35 mph, which was the
right speed to a exit which is another mile up hill.
First time I came down this hill with the EV in full battery REGEN, the EV
would hold at about 60 mph and than would only run out another half mile on
a flat section of road. I than would have to apply power for another 1.5
miles and then up a 5% grade and then down and up and finally down to my
home.
The next time, I try it without any battery REGEN, and it was summer at the
time. This time, I only had apply enough power to run the EV up to 35 mph
on the incoming exit. The EV got up to 85 mph, (we did not have a speed
limit at the time), by the time I got to the bottom of the hill. It
continue to roll out over the next 1.5 mile and was still doing 50 mph when
I was entering the next up hill exit. Coasted up this exit and made a right
turn at 35 mph which now is a down hill run at over 40 mph and another up
hill which slow be to 25 mph which was the speed limit in this section.
I than travel another down hill and made a left turn to my street and than
coast all the way into my garage.
With battery REGEN on, the EV would coast 2.5 miles , but had to be power
another 2 miles. Without battery REGEN, it would travel the whole distance
of 4.5 miles, which was less power used than REGEN could restored.
In the winter time, I could not do this type of coasting down this hill, and
at times we had to keep the speed below 30 mph on a glare icy road.
The battery REGEN would not be as effected, so I than apply the MECHANICAL
REGEN to help out the battery REGEN.
This was done with the GE-11 double shaft motor, where the pilot shaft is
connected to a DODGE PT Components D-FLEX coupling that is connected a DODGE
electric clutch which than drives a accessory drive that consist of a
alternator-inverter, power steering, Air Condition, and vacuum pump. The
inverter at 120 VAC 60 Hz 7kw is load up to about 5kw with multiple heating
systems. This addition mechanical load plus the REGEN feels like
compression braking in 1st gear of a ICE.
While this mechanical REGEN is on, the motor amp, main battery amp show
zeros amps, 12 volt accessory voltage is charging at 15 volts and the
heating system is at 120 VAC 5kw.
The mechanical REGEN goes off line control by a micro switch on the
accelerator control, and turns on a Honeywell 180 VDC motor that comes off
the battery pack which may use up to 30 amps if I have all the accessories
fully load. This change over can be control by a bank of switches that
allows to be either in Manual-Off-Auto control.
I do not used the battery REGEN anymore. In level driving and if I know,
that I have to make a stop about 3 blocks ahead of me, I will just let up at
that time and coast to the stop. The REGEN will stop the EV and I will
than have to apply more energy to drive the rest of the distance.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:41 AM
Subject: Regen
> Once again a question that may spark debate: Is the amount of energy
> re-cooped from braking sufficient to off set the additional weight gain
> of the regen itself?
>
> I can readily see for someone that is seeing a need to continuously
> break, but have any numbers been compiled?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ralph.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes,
It is very cool, only I can't do that to mine, It would just be so wrong.
The 928 is and will be my ICE vehicle. I have a 2 door 98 Golf GTI that I
picked up for my EV project. ($750) That will start when I get the
kitchen/dining room floor done and will be as detailed as my 928.
Mark Grasser
78 #358
BIG REDs
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 3:48 PM
Subject: RE: Three-wheel Go-cart
Mark Grasser wrote:
I missed my point though. I think that not only would you
feel it but that under heavy acceleration it would push
really hard to the opposite side from the drive wheel,
Dangerously so!
Perhaps; since I only have personal experience with karts that drive
both wheels, I'm not going refrain from speculating about what might
happen with one wheel driven.
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
Having read the list of repairs you've performed on your 928, I have to
wonder if you've seen Al Godfrey's latest car:
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/455>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a reminder to others like me. EV safety is mentioned
alot, "Full pack Voltage" and "don't ground yourself",
etc. It's also important to remember traditional
auto repair safety. Regardless of number of
contactors and disconnects and GFCI's, you're still
working on - perhaps UNDER - a vehicle that weighs
thousands of pounds and that has wheels.
I don't know all the safety procedures by heart (yet),
but some ideas
- get a buddy (still working on it ;-)
- set the parking brake when relevant
- use care when using cheap tools (eg from homier),
and carefully study the mechanics of the tool,
(before using, not after :-)
Specifically, inexpensive floor jacks work by
pulling themselves under the car, pushing up.
If the wheels on the jack are unable to turn, the
jack will do the opposite, and pull the car.
If the brake isn't set, the car might roll -
could even roll off the ramps.
list continued
- keep the wheels/tires on the car
so if it falls, it won't go down too far
- get a buddy (again :-)
If I come across something more formal,
I'll post it.
Work safely,
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe Borges wrote:
V28 are not A123 batteries (3,2V2,3AH with 100C burst power)
they are E-moly cells (3.7V3AH with 30C burst power)
Dewalt uses the A123 cells in it's DC9360 36V cordless tool battery
pack. They are 2.4lbs, rated at 2000 cycles and are available for ~$160.
The matching charger is DC9000, available for ~$90.
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
....
>>>a Mazda B2000 cabplus ...and 156v ....might do it.
Funny, The very first IMAGE of a Mazda B2000 that
google found....is in the album
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/318.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
Specifically, inexpensive floor jacks work by
pulling themselves under the car, pushing up.
If the wheels on the jack are unable to turn, the
jack will do the opposite, and pull the car.
If the brake isn't set, the car might roll -
could even roll off the ramps.
How about not working under a vehicle supported solely by a jack? The
car falling off the jack while jacking is bad for the car, but rarely
fatal to you. The car falling off the jack while you're under it
somewhat more so. Additionally hydraulic jacks are notorious for slowly
leaking. Nothing like working on the underside of a car for several
hours and suddenly realizing you no longer have room to breath.
Jackstands are very affordable ($10/pair for 18" 3 ton, get two pairs)
Lower the car until the weight is on the stands, and leave the jack
under a jack point (but not carrying weight) if possible.
Along the same lines, don't use a jack unless you are on a level hard
surface (concrete). I know this list features a few backyard mechanics
that actually work in their backyards. Lifting the vehicle on dirt or
planks is just not a good idea.
"Common sense isn't actually all that common"
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Mark Farver wrote:
And if anyone is wondering why Wayland is so quiet...
Its my fault.
In Joliet John casually asked me to make it possible to send email
while on the road... no problem.. just configure his mail client to
use the authenticated mail server on his hosting provider. It doesn't
work... he can read mail, but sending doesn't recognize his pw.
So I change his password, thinking that would sync the servers and all
will be well. It didn't.
3 days and 4 tech support email's and several phone calls from a
"Wayland in Withdrawel" I think the password is now correct for both
sending and reading email,
Yes Mark, I am now finally able to 'send' emails again....great, now
that I'm home and have no time to do so :-( It was 'extremely'
frustrating to be on the road with tons of info to post each day and
night with Wi Fi at each motel stay, only to be tied up and gagged with
a non-functioning email account....GGRRR!
It was an exhausting 4000+ mile road trip...and we didn't even get to
race :-( I got home at 3:40 AM on Wednesday, slept for maybe 5 hours,
then got up to an empty house (wife at work). It was then time to
un-pack, time to empty the race car of all its loaded-in travel stuff,
time to put away and clean up chargers, cords, batteries, tools, chains
and binders, and all the other stuff we had crammed into the car. I then
took a nap before being reunited with my wife when she got home from
work. We had a fun dinner out together, then we had some download time,
then it was early to bed for some much needed deep sleep. It's Thursday
morning now, I have to go back to work, and I now have no time to post
anything....GGRRR!
I 'did' put up the only Hooters girls picture decent enough (image
quality wise) at the Photos section of the Plasma Boy website, if anyone
wants to check it out. It's in an album I call 'White Zombie Road
Trip!'. I will be adding lots more photos when I can find time to do so,
and I'll try to get some posts sent out that will put those pictures in
perspective, even though they are now too late to be timely :-(
See Ya.....John Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One-wheel drive works fine if speed and power are modest. I and
a few of my peers had homemade go carts with one-wheel drive
when I was a teenager. Our carts probably never exceeded 20 mph
under power or had more than about 3 horsepower. We never
noticed any steering problems.
Most go carts use a solid rear axle with no differential and skid
one wheel around turns. That seems to work well. That's what
I'd recommend to anyone planning a go cart.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:03 AM
Subject: Three-wheel Go-cart
A friend of my is building a three-wheel go-cart (two wheels rear, one
wheel
front) and wants to make it electric. His current design has an electric
motor driving only one of the rear wheels. My initial thought is that
this
will make the vehicle want to pull to one side.
1) How have you other go-cart EV builders out there hooked up the
electric
motor to the wheels?
2) Do you have any experience/recommendations on motor size, battery back
voltage, Amphours?
3) What kind of controller are you using? Is a simple resistor, though
wasteful, good enough for this size vehicle, or is there a good, small
controller that works?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Well I finally completed enough on my EV to take it to the DMV. Yeah!!!
That is where the fun has begun. I went to the Sacramento DMV hoping that
they have had some experience in EVs before. That was not the case and they
could not figure out how to set the fuel type to E. Eventually they sent me
away with a crappy flier for the Air Resources Board. Since I had a friend tow
my vehicle all the way to SAC I was determined to call around and try to do
something. Eventually after a number of on-hold hang-ups and other run around,
I found a SMOG Referee service. I made an appointment with them, which is two
weeks out to inspect my truck.
My Question is: am I doing the right thing here? I'm sure someone has been
through this before in CA...
Thanks
John Grigg
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/723
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I noticed one of these the other day:
http://www.kohlerpowersystems.com/onsite/onsite_diesel_all.html
Is that an 11" or 13" motor in that picture?
I imagine these large generator motors are more common and plentiful
then large forklift motors? Could these housings and armatures, ect,
be of use to us as a source of parts?
Does Warfield Electric manufacture anything? Who exactly makes the
motor housings, field coils, DE/CE ends, armatures, etc? Who
currently makes these parts new?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
We may discuss with Otmar off line how to present facts straight,
and this is important to the end users to make valid decision.
If there are errors (especially measurable) or wrong/missed specs,
it is easy to fix, I'd be more than happy to do it if spotted.
Otmar, as experienced designer can certainly help if he's willing to.
Problem is the question is not quite technical - people try to
assign and justify personal money for something intangible like
fun factor. Otmar insists if the system is "only" 100 kW, it's no fun.
Well, what can I say? If 100 kW is not fun and you want fun,
naturally, don't buy 100 kW system then. What answer do you expect?
I'm not going to try to convince you that 100 kW is fun.
There is no point arguing, there is no right or wrong when it comes
to what different people consider fun for themselves and especially
tagging it with a dollar sign. 100kW is plenty of fun for me.
Regen is sure fun, I'm grinning every time I come to the stop
and seeing Wh meter rolling backwards and battery filled up.
But I don't charge $3000 for the system, $300 for having regen
and estimated $30 for having fun using it.
So I'll fix all the errors if any. Otmar, if you can refrain
from insulting comments of your feelings when you read Q&A,
welcome to participate - any help or input I can get will benefit
everyone. I have no problem facing questions and explain why
some arguments are picked, but not others. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. As I
said, will fix it. Editing particular web page contents isn't something
suitable for EVDL.
As of money per hardware, I don't pack them with features and *then*
sell it "here is what cost money whether you need it or not".
If you don't need features, system which already has them isn't
for you, that simple. I can tell why system cost what it cost,
but don't ask me why they put in this and that feature and now
you have to pay for it. I did not design these inverters, and
trust they know very well what they are doing. I doubt they put
in unnecessary features just to be able to charge more - after all
they are in competing high end market.
Lastly, don't expect systems made by largest electronics company
in Europe cost the same as made by one even brilliant guy with no
overhead expenses, even if systems could be identical. Especially
because (unfortunately for all of us) this largest manufacturer
produces EV hardware in *very* low quantities.
Also, Otmar, don't worry about conflicting business interests.
There may be 2-3 guys or gals on EVDL choosing one solution over
the other, but individuals here represent tiny fraction of the
business for me, and most of non-OEM customers are not on EVDL
either. Don't forget, I sell only complete systems with motors
together, and you sell only controllers. For better or worse,
we're in different buyers markets despite final product being
the same - on road electric vehicle. As I said, I recommend your
Zillas to everyone for whom AC is not only no option, but they
have choice, without fear of loosing some revenue.
I don't really need to "defend" Siemens product - their name
speaks for itself.
Being professional, friendly and constructive is what I expect.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
p.s. New info about low voltage AC systems as well as some discounts
on existing ones will be on the web site shortly. I'll sure inform
EVDL when I'm done.
Otmar wrote:
Well, this sure is a volatile discussion!
Multiple quote depths are confusing to me, so I will restate in a new
email, please let me know if I miss anything important.
I agree with Jeff Shanab that it would be very useful to see a web page
dedicated to comparing AC and DC systems. This would best be done by
someone other than myself or Victor since we both have conflicting
business interests.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[SNIP] If I had it to do over, I probably would have chosen a RWD car, [SNIP]
Jim,
Good thinking point. I've also wondered whether a FWD vehicle had
essentially less working room up front than its RWD cousin. Of
course, that depends upon individual vehicles. Still, it seems as
though there might be a tad more space with the RWD...
Much to ponder...The 'Tang's looking better and better...
Wayne
If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us who "can't" won't
suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know offhand where I could get the setup to do a single drive
wheel. I'm really looking to do two but want each driven seperately yet not
shaft driven by a motor.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
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The single axle is easier to mount/build (and often stronger) than 2
independent wheels. There is, however, the concern for a vehicle to be used
on pavement. Some of the electrathon dudes I spoke to mentioned wasting
power in the turns, having to skid the rear tires around a corner. Then
again, they never had enough power applied to notice that only 1 wheel was
powered.
If there's enough power to break a single wheel loose, I'd be concerned
about steering w/ a single front wheel. (It implies higher speeds.) I never
heard if it was completed, but one way around this is to power both rear
wheels and use a ratchet on each cog... or use dual motors.
BTW, if you have a cart to use, great. If you don't, you might look up Blue
Sky Designs. He had some cart designs (Electrathon) for good prices, and set
up for your e-power... sort of a big erector set. (Also some of the kewelest
body designs around, if you are looking for an enclosed cart design.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
> One-wheel drive works fine if speed and power are modest. I and
> a few of my peers had homemade go carts with one-wheel drive
> when I was a teenager. Our carts probably never exceeded 20 mph
> under power or had more than about 3 horsepower. We never
> noticed any steering problems.
>
> Most go carts use a solid rear axle with no differential and skid
> one wheel around turns. That seems to work well. That's what
> I'd recommend to anyone planning a go cart.
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I have one of the one wheel drive go-karts. It's undergoing conversion to
electric. This cart is a 4 wheeled
originally meant for a flat asphalt or hard clay track. My kids use it in the
back yard and forest. The one wheel
drive is frequently losing traction on uneven ground. Too much torque
exacerbates the condition. A three-wheeler would
be much better. even if the lone wheel is at the front, because the kart would
not be allowed to teeter on opposing
corners.
Go for it.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: 5/18/2006 4:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
>
> One-wheel drive works fine if speed and power are modest. I and
> a few of my peers had homemade go carts with one-wheel drive
> when I was a teenager. Our carts probably never exceeded 20 mph
> under power or had more than about 3 horsepower. We never
> noticed any steering problems.
>
> Most go carts use a solid rear axle with no differential and skid
> one wheel around turns. That seems to work well. That's what
> I'd recommend to anyone planning a go cart.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:03 AM
> Subject: Three-wheel Go-cart
>
>
>>A friend of my is building a three-wheel go-cart (two wheels rear, one
>>wheel
>> front) and wants to make it electric. His current design has an
> electric
>> motor driving only one of the rear wheels. My initial thought is that
>
>> this
>> will make the vehicle want to pull to one side.
>>
>> 1) How have you other go-cart EV builders out there hooked up the
>> electric
>> motor to the wheels?
>> 2) Do you have any experience/recommendations on motor size, battery
> back
>> voltage, Amphours?
>> 3) What kind of controller are you using? Is a simple resistor,
> though
>> wasteful, good enough for this size vehicle, or is there a good, small
>> controller that works?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill Dennis
>>
>>
>
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At 2:20 PM -0700 5/18/06, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
All,
We may discuss with Otmar off line how to present facts straight,
and this is important to the end users to make valid decision.
Sounds like a great idea to me. You could start by answering my
questions I spent hours last night trying to make absolutely clear.
If there are errors (especially measurable) or wrong/missed specs,
it is easy to fix, I'd be more than happy to do it if spotted.
Otmar, as experienced designer can certainly help if he's willing to.
That's exactly what I spent four hours writing the last email for. So
that you could fix the errors. But at the moment you are not
addressing what I brought up.
Problem is the question is not quite technical - people try to
assign and justify personal money for something intangible like
fun factor. Otmar insists if the system is "only" 100 kW, it's no fun.
No, I did not say that. Why are you responding to a image you have of
me, rather than what I actually say? Funny, I remember writing a lot
about a very fun car I owned that had under 30 kW. (The Chevy Sprint
with Brusa AC drive in case anyone has forgotten. Very fun car)
I'm now feeling very insulted. I spend hours trying to be fair,
honest and address the problems of your comparison, I even try to
lighten it up with a little humor, and here you ignore what I wrote
and now accuse me of something that I did not say and certainly did
not mean to imply.
There is no point arguing, there is no right or wrong when it comes
to what different people consider fun for themselves and especially
tagging it with a dollar sign. 100kW is plenty of fun for me.
The argument I was making has nothing to do with peoples choice over
power. It's about your totally illogical comparison of very different
controllers when there is a much closer match to be made. That is a
very simple logical thing which is certainly worth arguing about.
Being professional, friendly and constructive is what I expect.
Ah yes, Victor, I believe those are important too. And maybe I'm not
so friendly when I feel attacked wronged. But I also believe in logic
and honesty (even above being friendly). It is my feeling that you
are not utilizing one or the other to a reasonable extent in this
matter.
Shall I rest my case now? I'm happy to clarify my points if anyone
asks. But I must say trying to have a debate with Victor feels like
dealing with a politician, very slippery business.
This is exactly why I usually let his statements go by unchallenged.
It's so easy to find the flaws, but he often refuses to reply to
logical arguments. I'd be happy to "agree to disagree" on many points
if necessary, but first the actual point needs to be defined.
Time for me to go back into the commercial space where I somehow
manage to build controllers with "no overhead". Does that mean I
don't have to pay my employee, rent or utilities this month? That
would certainly nice if the world worked that way!
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
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Every go kart I've seen has a solid rear
axle, so while there is only a single driven sproket on the rear axle,
both rear wheels are driven.
This is why go kart driving technique involves leaning in the corners;
you want to unload one rear wheel so it can spin because both are driven
and there is no differential.
Cheers,
Roger.
This is a good case for two steered wheels and one rear wheel to drive. I'm
also thinking a single wheel in front won't handle as well as a single wheel
in the back.
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http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm "Currently, smog inspections are
required for all vehicles except diesel powered vehicles, electric, natural
gas powered vehicles over 14,000 lbs, hybrids, motorcycles, trailers, or
vehicles 1975 and older."
This sounds a bit like the guy (about 10 years ago) who was told his EV
required a muffler to be registered. He wired a muffler (from a lawn mower)
onto the frame and took it back... and was told the muffler must be
connected to the motor... so a couple snips and he wire tied it to the
motor. Finally he left and went to another DMV office. The inspector
questioned him about the muffler and looked unbelieving at him when he told
him the reason for it... but certified the car.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: CA DMV
> My Question is: am I doing the right thing here? I'm sure someone has
been through this before in CA...
>
> Thanks
> John Grigg
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/723
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At 04:27 PM 18/05/06 -0500, Wayne wrote:
[SNIP] If I had it to do over, I probably would have chosen a RWD car, [SNIP]
Jim,
Good thinking point. I've also wondered whether a FWD vehicle had
essentially less working room up front than its RWD cousin. Of course,
that depends upon individual vehicles. Still, it seems as though there
might be a tad more space with the RWD...
Much to ponder...The 'Tang's looking better and better...
Depending on how big the gearbox is (or more precise how big the
transmission tunnel is), there may be enough space in the transmission
tunnel for a twin-motor/no gearbox setup, along the lines of White Zombie.
I keep looking at the size of the dead auto I swapped out of one of our
Nissan Skylines' and comparing the size of that to the size of two motors -
not a lot of difference. (sort of highlights how small WZ is with Johns'
problems to fit the motors).
Dual motors in the transmission tunnel leaves all the engine bay for
batteries and other gear.
Just an 0.02 idea...
[Technik] James
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At 8:42 AM -0600 5/18/06, Bill Dennis wrote:
This downhill dilemma will be my situation when I start using my EV. The
first part of my commute is 5 miles downhill, then the last part is 5 miles
back up at the end of the day.
I've got Li-ion cells, so I want to charge them all the way each night to
equalize them--therefore I won't be able to put any of the downhill energy
back into them.
This really depends on what sort of lithium cells and what sort of
balancers you are using.
Many lithium cells will have a longer shelf life if they do not spend
extended times at full charge (or high temperature).
If your balancing system will work at 90% charge, then I think you
would be better off just charging to 90% and let the first downhill
regen bring them up to near full charge.
At 9:51 AM -0700 5/18/06, Chet Fields wrote:
But what is the issue with shunt wound motors. Are they more expensive, or
unobtainable? Are the controllers to allow regen more complicated and
expensive? (Otmar?)
The shunt controllers are more complicated. Series regen ones are not
so much more aside from some expensive contactors (about $400) You
can change the field winding on a series motor into a shunt motor. We
did that years ago on a ADC 9" motor run from a Sep-Ex Zilla. (Sep-Ex
= Seperately excited = Shunt in my book) In my experience this does
not solve the commutation issues that we had with series regen
systems. I expect that with just the right motor design it might be
practical.
My Soleq EVCort has the *DC* shunt wound motor with regen and (echoing someone
elses sentiments in a prior post) IMHO it is quite charming. I like that fact
that I don't have to rely on the brakes to stop 2 tons of vehicle and that at
least some of that energy is going back into the batteries. Saves brake pads,
increases range, probably contributes some to the life of the batteries as
well.
It does do that, but the Soleq that I worked on wore out its brushes
very quickly. It would have been cheaper to replace the brakes than
the brushes.
FWIW, in my experience running both AC and DC regen cars, regen
returns about 8% to 12% of the energy used around town, and with a
lead acid car that can increase the range by 20% since the batteries
do appreciate the mini fast charges.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
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John,
1992 I had no troubles getting my Blazer EV registered at the Santa
Clara, CA DMV (near Lawerence Expressway and El Camino Real).
But if I had a new conversion to get registered, I would first
check out the DMV before making the effort to bring my vehicle in.
As you have found some DMVs do not have their act together. Find
the right one that does would be first, then make an appointment to
bring your vehicle in to be registered, is what I would recommend.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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