EV Digest 5499
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Any useful parts from generators?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EAA help with route 66 chargers from the ETlist.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Kalifornia .... registering conversions
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Donor Car Recommendations for EV Conversion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Joule Injected driver in White Zombie!
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Front-Wheel or Rear-Wheel Drive
by "Pool, Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Walk Behind professional mowers?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Regen
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: single drive wheel for go cart?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Three-wheel Go-cart
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: single drive wheel for go cart?
by "Vince Barma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) TdS Report #40: Exhibitor Profile: Miles ZX40
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) TdS Report #41: Photos - Miles Automotive ZX40
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: EV Copyright Infringement running rampant
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Donor Car Recommendations for EV Conversion
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:56 PM 18/05/06 -0700, you wrote:
Every go kart I've seen has a solid rear
axle, so while there is only a single driven sproket on the rear axle,
both rear wheels are driven.
This is why go kart driving technique involves leaning in the corners;
you want to unload one rear wheel so it can spin because both are driven
and there is no differential.
Cheers,
Roger.
This is a good case for two steered wheels and one rear wheel to
drive. I'm also thinking a single wheel in front won't handle as well as
a single wheel in the back.
Why not do a go-cart with two half-size motors (or double the power), one
to each wheel? Series/parallel shift for "gearchange", no skidding one
wheel to be able to turn.
What's the problem with that?
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:11 PM 18/05/06 -0500, you wrote:
I noticed one of these the other day:
http://www.kohlerpowersystems.com/onsite/onsite_diesel_all.html
Is that an 11" or 13" motor in that picture?
No, there is a Diesel ICE, a starter motor and an AC alternator.
I imagine these large generator motors are more common and plentiful
then large forklift motors? Could these housings and armatures, ect,
be of use to us as a source of parts?
AC regen is about all that they could be useful for. Keep an eye out and
you'll find a generator with a worn out or busted ICE that you can steal
the alternator off. If it is a brushed type you can vary the regen by
varying the field current, if it is an induction rotor you would have to
control the output.
Hope this helps
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message 1
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed May 17, 2006 8:12pm(PDT)
Subject: 66 update from OK City
This part of the trip is much harder because Bruce Meland went back to
Oregon and our videographer decided he got what he came for and opted out
of the ride down the actual route... So I'm all by my lonesone... and
frankly, I'm feeling a bit tired and lonely and running low on cash. The
xB is good on gas, but not great, and in these wide open highways, it's
hard to just stay cruising at 65... to conserve fuel. I'm figuring this
trip, round trip from NY to LA will probably cost me around $1000 in gas
alone, with all the side trips and the detours... which doesn't leave much
for lodging along the way, for a two week trip.
I picked up ZAP as a sponsor, and now have their stickers on the side of
the car. I'm finding good potential spots for rapid chargers along the
way, leaving behind a little pep talk, copies of ET and the eTec charger
white paper.
The general concensus is that these people who own all these great
businesses along 66 are all for it, the line I get most often is: "We need
to do something!" But somebody has to pay for it. One charger here and
there will not a theme park ride make. We have to find a way to sell 30
chargers minimum along the route. That's the job of the EAA to merge with
the Route 66 Preservation Corridor organization and either lobby Congress
for the money, or find some www.TED.com Microsoft billionaire to flip the
bill. Ain't little ol'me who's going to be making many sales along the way
this first time around.
This is a scouting mission to get the ball rolling, at our own expense. I
need help from the entire EV community if this is going to become reality.
I'm doing best I can here with help from friends, but it ain't enough.
This needs major PR muscle which I can't muster on my own... I also don't
want to feel like I'm wasting my time, because I have better things to do,
and if that was the case I would just turn right back to Chicago.
Long stretches of 66 in MO and OK are just too sinewy to get off 44 and
travel. If I'm going to make my target date of May 24, 25 in LA. The only
place I can get WiFi is cheap motels, but looks like I'm going to be
sleeping in the car from now on... this is my last splash of luxury. So no
more updates for awhile, until friends put me up again further down the
road.
I am getting great video though, and it will be fun to host a raw footage
party back in CT in June. The large format pix are great also, but files
much too large to download here, in this small lap top, so will all have
to wait till I get home.
Rem
http://www.thebox66.com
PS My cell phone number is on the site... call me, keep me company, OK?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 2 door 98 Golf GTI that I
picked up for my EV project. ($750) That will start when I get the
kitchen/dining room floor done and will be as detailed as my 928.
Mark Grasser
78 #358
BIG REDs
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
John Wayland look out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After being shuttled from agency to agency and back I
have found out that the state has made an agreement
with the auto makers, that conversions cannot qualify
for any Clean Air perks. Such as HOV lanes. Has anyone
had any luck with this? Let me know what if any luck
people have had in CA with this stuff. I'm trying to
get the state to certify us a converters so people can
save a trip to the referee station. It's also
interesting trying to get people in these state
agencies to grasp what we are doing. Sheesh!
Gadget
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This vehicle now has all the batteries under the bed. 24 total for 144v
system. Shouldn't be hard to find a place for two more batteries. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Rothenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: Donor Car Recommendations for EV Conversion
....
a Mazda B2000 cabplus ...and 156v ....might do it.
Funny, The very first IMAGE of a Mazda B2000 that
google found....is in the album
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/318.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 18 May 2006 11:38:49 -0700, "Roger Stockton"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>> Probably 90%(perhaps more) of the go-karts (gas and electric)
>> out there only drive one of the rear wheels.
>
>I don't think this is correct. Every go kart I've seen has a solid rear
>axle, so while there is only a single driven sproket on the rear axle,
>both rear wheels are driven.
Peter is correct, as a brief look at any web site selling kart parts
will show. Suggest Northern tool as a good place to look. I'm using
one of their differential axles (they sell a name brand but I can't
recall the name at hte moment), cut down to an appropriate length for
a 3 wheel scooter that I'm working on at the moment.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone,
After 60 hours of driving from South Florida to Joliet and back, I've gotten
some solid sack time and my body and mind are well on the way to recovery.
The guys up there went all out to put together an incredible event for
everyone and it's just awful that the weather wouldn't cooperate with us.
Still, we definitely made the best of it and a good time was had by all! I
want to thank everyone that was involved in coordinating such a large event.
I'm thrilled to have been present for all the great times and being able to
meet up with everyone from Illinois and the rest of the country. Although I
was still under the impression that the race was a go at the time, there was
something very special about walking into the training room at the Route 66
Raceway on Friday night and seeing 60-70 EV and other alt-fuel advocates
there. I felt proud to be a part of it.
Others have already commented on the Pep Boys parking lot mayhem, but there
is one aspect that I am honored to describe, and that would be guest driver
of White Zombie.
After all the parking lot fun we decided to gather at a burger joint down
the road. John Wayland had been asking for a ride in the Joule Injected
Nissan, and even though conditions weren't great with wet roads and some
rain coming down, I was still looking forward to showing him a little of
what the car could do. We hopped in and headed onto the main road. Traction
was pretty decent, even with the wet roads (unlike Zombie, the 240's drag
radials actually have tread remaining). Traffic was heavy enough that the
majority of the trip was necessarily subdued, but I was still able to pull
off a few short-duration sprints from maybe 20 to 50 mph. At one point, just
before the burger joint I pulled into pole position at a red light. Still
not into it all the way, I gave John a little demonstration of what the car
could do from a stop. In both of these instances John made an approving
comment that the car kept stuffing you back into the seat, constantly
accelerating. He mentioned that it felt entirely different from White
Zombie. At the time, I wasn't able to see exactly what he meant. I just
figured, "Well, sure, the 240's not quite as quick as the lighter, nimble
Datsun 1200." That would prove to be quite an understatement.
We pulled into the restaurant parking lot and into a spot and hopped out
right around the same time that Tim Brehm was bringing in White Zombie. By
the time we crossed the parking lot, Tim had already spied a choice outlet
on the side of the restaurant and was hooking up the charger to top up the
batteries. The man has an uncanny talent for spying available outlets, which
complements John's eager follow-up admission to the restaurant staff and
management that they're charging up the car and will happily pay the dollar
or so to reimburse them.
I'm not going to comment much on the meal and the events inside the
restaurant unless no one chimes in with what might very well be the most
entertaining roast of an EVer ever (Jim, you've got honors). Still, the best
moment for me in the restaurant was when John turned to me and
matter-of-factly stated, "I think you need to drive White Zombie." I don't
think I knew quite how to respond, but the brain was just functional enough
to allow me to agree that yes, I did need to drive White Zombie! So after
the meal we all headed out to the parking lot and over to White Zombie. With
the batteries nicely charged up, we gathered up the charger and cables and
Tim tossed me the keys and gave me a few words of warning about how the car
handles. Then I handed the keys to Joule Injected to Shawn Waggoner so he
could take a few people out in it while I was on my joy ride. Thankfully,
the rain had subsided so the roads were relatively dry, and as an added
benefit there was a nice long stretch of road with essentially no traffic on
it.
The first several indications that driving White Zombie will be far from
ordinary are when you drop into the racing seat and attach the harness
around your waist, insert the massive emergency disconnect handle into
position, put the key into the ignition and then realize all that's left to
do is point and shoot. John's a purist, and doesn't want any reversing
contactor muddying up things, so that's about when it sinks in that this car
is all about going forward--and fast! I ease out of the parking lot and onto
the street, then, heeding Tim's advice, straighten up the car before
dropping the hammer. I'm pretty sure I was hitting 45 mph in about two
seconds. I was already coming up on a stop sign and in the gradual slow down
I was able to sort of come to terms with what just happened. Really--it's
like no other acceleration experience, and to be in control of that is an
incredible feeling. Like John had said, the feeling is totally different
than the steady, relentless acceleration of Joule Injected; White Zombie is
all race car.
I circled around the neighborhood, back onto the main street and past the
restaurant, all the while getting more and more comfortable with the feel of
the car. In contrast to the heavier feel of the 240 with its un-power
steering and braking, White Zombie is light on its front wheels so steering
is carefree and overall, braking is much more responsive. Power was
instantaneous in every range: 0 to 40, 20 to 50--whatever. Rather than the
typical throttle control to the Zilla, apparently John has installed a
"speed selection device" which allows you to specify with your foot the
desired speed, which White Zombie obediently resolves in a fraction of a
second!
Now don't get me wrong, I love the power, performance and feel of Joule
Injected. It is exactly what I wanted -- a quick, fun street car that can
perform well on the track. It's more practical than Zombie, with a spacious
trunk that can swallow up the better part of a sheet of plywood, so trips to
Home Depot and the grocery store aren't at all limited by space constraints.
But White Zombie beautifully demonstrates what is possible when similar
systems are perfectly placed in a lighter vehicle (more than 950 lbs
lighter!), and it is truly a thrill to drive.
Eventually I recognize that I need to head back over to the restaurant and
as I'm bringing the car back up that first side road I left from, I see John
and several others standing at the corner ready for me to bring it in. At
this point I'm not exactly sure what got a hold of me, but I remember seeing
the main cross-road ahead, and I knew there was a more open street just a
block away. I drifted right on by everyone and announced as much to myself
as John and the others, "I'm not done yet!"
So back onto the main street and then onto a nearly deserted four-lane road,
I was able to really open it up, but still only up to about 2/3 of it's top
end. I'm sure there was great attention paid to the driveline geometry
because at higher speeds, there's little to no vibration present. With
literally no one else on the road, I come up on a light where I'm able to
make a U-turn and give it just enough throttle to break the wheels loose and
get a better feel for how the Detroit Locker handles. As advertised, the car
asserts its desire to try to get away from you, and reminds you to respect
the amount of power you control. And so, with that, the remainder of my
drive was a little more subdued and I headed back to the restaurant.
Everyone swarmed the car in the parking lot, most likely to keep me from
driving off again. I had the biggest grin across my face then, and I'm just
now remembering what the closest feeling to that experience was. It's the
first time you finish riding the baddest, fastest roller coaster as a child
and you're running back to get right back in line and ride again. Man, what
a blast!
I was talking a mile a minute, and for the most part, I can't remember
anything I said. I do remember saying one thing, though: "I know what my
next EV will be like!" Thank you, John, for a drive to remember!
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com
Hobe Sound, FL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have wondered about something similar, mounting the motor(s) to the frame of
a small truck under the bed.
I see two potential problems. I don't know enough yet to determine how
significant they are. 1. This would seem to increase the distance between the
controller and the motor(s) unless done carefully and 2. Putting the motor(s)
closer to the rear axle would increase the angle that the driveline moves as
the suspension compresses and extends.
Anyone have any insights on those?
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 4:53 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Front-Wheel or Rear-Wheel Drive
At 04:27 PM 18/05/06 -0500, Wayne wrote:
>>[SNIP] If I had it to do over, I probably would have chosen a RWD car, [SNIP]
>
>>Jim,
>
>Good thinking point. I've also wondered whether a FWD vehicle had
>essentially less working room up front than its RWD cousin. Of course,
>that depends upon individual vehicles. Still, it seems as though there
>might be a tad more space with the RWD...
>
>Much to ponder...The 'Tang's looking better and better...
Depending on how big the gearbox is (or more precise how big the
transmission tunnel is), there may be enough space in the transmission
tunnel for a twin-motor/no gearbox setup, along the lines of White Zombie.
I keep looking at the size of the dead auto I swapped out of one of our
Nissan Skylines' and comparing the size of that to the size of two motors -
not a lot of difference. (sort of highlights how small WZ is with Johns'
problems to fit the motors).
Dual motors in the transmission tunnel leaves all the engine bay for
batteries and other gear.
Just an 0.02 idea...
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> Peter is correct, as a brief look at any web site selling kart parts
> will show. Suggest Northern tool as a good place to look. I'm using
> one of their differential axles (they sell a name brand but I can't
> recall the name at hte moment), cut down to an appropriate length for
> a 3 wheel scooter that I'm working on at the moment.
Nope. Check a kart parts supplier, such as
<http://www.gokartsupply.com/partcat.htm>. Most karts use a solid rear
axle with a full-length keyway that allows one to positively attach the
hubs that the rear wheels mount to, as well as the single driven
sprocket and single brake disc that attach to this solid axle.
I've driven a number of rental karts, and all have been of this drive
configuration, as have been the few electric karts I've seen, and the
few 'higher end' karts I've seen. I won't go sop far as to way that all
karts run solid rear axles with both wheels driven, but a quick online
search suggests that may well be the case... The only axles available
from kart suppliers seem to be of the solid variety, and even at the
100-125cc shifter kart class the solid rear axle is used.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to tell you guys, I don't think the two in the back and one in the
front is all that good of an idea. I know there's that new trik EV on the
west coast but think about it, what happens when you are hard on the brakes
and you turn the wheel. How many times is it going to roll over.
I've seen some nice trikes with one drive wheel in the back and two steering
in the front. Makes a lot more sense to me.
Mark Grasser
78 #358
BIG REDs
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: Three-wheel Go-cart
Neon John wrote:
Peter is correct, as a brief look at any web site selling kart parts
will show. Suggest Northern tool as a good place to look. I'm using
one of their differential axles (they sell a name brand but I can't
recall the name at hte moment), cut down to an appropriate length for
a 3 wheel scooter that I'm working on at the moment.
Nope. Check a kart parts supplier, such as
<http://www.gokartsupply.com/partcat.htm>. Most karts use a solid rear
axle with a full-length keyway that allows one to positively attach the
hubs that the rear wheels mount to, as well as the single driven
sprocket and single brake disc that attach to this solid axle.
I've driven a number of rental karts, and all have been of this drive
configuration, as have been the few electric karts I've seen, and the
few 'higher end' karts I've seen. I won't go sop far as to way that all
karts run solid rear axles with both wheels driven, but a quick online
search suggests that may well be the case... The only axles available
from kart suppliers seem to be of the solid variety, and even at the
100-125cc shifter kart class the solid rear axle is used.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been on the lookout for a new donor and found someone selling a 36" toro
walk behind.
They seem to use lower horsepower motors so I'm thinking they are more
efficient since they don't have to carry a person around. Does this sound
reasonable or does anyone have any direct experience with these mowers? I can
get it pretty cheap since it has an oil leak on the engine.
It has a 12hp motor and my sears had a 15.5 so I'm hoping maybe I can use the
same setup.
Thanks.
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Grasser wrote:
> I have to tell you guys, I don't think the two in the back
> and one in the front is all that good of an idea. I know
> there's that new trik EV on the west coast but think about
> it, what happens when you are hard on the brakes and you
> turn the wheel. How many times is it going to roll over.
I've driven both, and both work OK if attention is paid to the details.
Dave Cloud has quite successfully used the 1 front/2 rear setup on his
electrathon cars for years. He is doing a front wheel drive, front
wheel steering setup. This has a couple of advantages over the
altneratives, since with one wheel driven you don't have the
weight/complexity of a differential means or the losses associated with
allowing one wheel to scrub, and with one wheel steered you don't have
the issues and losses associated with Ackerman steering geometry. I had
the chance to drive one of his cars a couple years ago and found it to
be quite stable, though in general you are right that the single front
wheel layout will have a greater tendency to fall over under hard
braking while turning.
Our own electrathon car is one of Blue Sky Design's Aerocoupes, which is
a single driven rear wheel configuration. This works well and is stable
under braking, but places far more stress on the single rear wheel due
to the recumbant seating position resulting in a significant rearward
weight bias. Dave's single front wheel layout places the pair of
non-driven wheels at the rear where most of the weight is.
I wouldn't do a single front wheel go kart due to the inherently poorer
stability under hard braking, but then I wouldn't do a three wheeled go
kart anyway ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just thinking again (oh my god .. ;)
Wouldn't it be possible to have a second pair of brushes mounted to a
'normal' motor (since regen capable sepex and other dc motors are not easy
to get) and use them for regen? Or maybe a small(er) sized generator
(maybe half the size and with the same diameter, pre-drilled and ready to
slide on the second shaft) that would fit and would be easily mounted to
an, say, advanced dc motor?
I know it might not be worth the trouble, but I too would like to have
some kind of support for my brakes ;)
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hastings wrote:
> Does anyone know offhand where I could get the setup to do a single
> drive wheel. I'm really looking to do two but want each driven
> seperately yet not shaft driven by a motor.
Our BEST teams this year (and last) are using a 12v gearmotor from
www.surpluscenter.com. It's item #5-1524, $39.95, rated 12vdc 20a
continuous, 150 rpm, 75 inch-lbs, double-ended 7/16" x 1" shafts. These
are new surplus, and well-made; much better quality than automotive
motors. One of these motors has no trouble driving their crudely built
100 lbs vehicles at 10-15 mph. Two of them would even work for adults!
The gear reduction is about right to directly drive a 12" diameter
wheel. Teams have also put a chain sprocket on them to drive a bike
wheel, or v-belt pulley, or friction drive.
The main problems have been a) don't wire it to a 12v battery with short
heavy wire; the stall current is over 150 amps and it's likely to break
something, and b) it needs a fair amount of airflow to actually run at
the rated 20 amps continuously.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe toyota is smarter than we give them credit for.
Could it be that they payed a large amount for quality tooling knowing
that, when the time is right, they can ramp into production in monthes
not years. Then they wrote off the loss, during the mandate time, which
may have been to early in the american market, switched over to hybrids
to soften us up for the real EV wave. Maybe, when someone tests the
water for them.
For example, electric micro cars start to become popular, they offer the
rav4 that appeals to the larger SUV market and bingo, they become the
number one car company, oh wait, they already got that destinction
didn't they?
Just a thought
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice to knowe,
Thanks Roger
Mark Grasser
78 #358
BIG REDs
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Three-wheel Go-cart
Mark Grasser wrote:
I have to tell you guys, I don't think the two in the back
and one in the front is all that good of an idea. I know
there's that new trik EV on the west coast but think about
it, what happens when you are hard on the brakes and you
turn the wheel. How many times is it going to roll over.
I've driven both, and both work OK if attention is paid to the details.
Dave Cloud has quite successfully used the 1 front/2 rear setup on his
electrathon cars for years. He is doing a front wheel drive, front
wheel steering setup. This has a couple of advantages over the
altneratives, since with one wheel driven you don't have the
weight/complexity of a differential means or the losses associated with
allowing one wheel to scrub, and with one wheel steered you don't have
the issues and losses associated with Ackerman steering geometry. I had
the chance to drive one of his cars a couple years ago and found it to
be quite stable, though in general you are right that the single front
wheel layout will have a greater tendency to fall over under hard
braking while turning.
Our own electrathon car is one of Blue Sky Design's Aerocoupes, which is
a single driven rear wheel configuration. This works well and is stable
under braking, but places far more stress on the single rear wheel due
to the recumbant seating position resulting in a significant rearward
weight bias. Dave's single front wheel layout places the pair of
non-driven wheels at the rear where most of the weight is.
I wouldn't do a single front wheel go kart due to the inherently poorer
stability under hard braking, but then I wouldn't do a three wheeled go
kart anyway ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check Northern Tool:
http://www.northerntool.com/
Go to their go kart section then to the parts and accessories. They even have a
go-cart kit for like 450 or so last I looked, and i was going to build one up
for electric power myself.
I did a kart once using their parts as a start, turned out fine--- Driven
wheel(mini-bike rear wheel) and sproket 72 teeth, #35 chain, and motor 13 tooth
sproket. I used a Leeson 1hp motor bought from KangoKarts.com, a 24v 400a
rebuilt golf cart controller from Golftech.com, 2 12v 17ah batteries from
MECI.com
The whole kart was from dot.com's other than the frame I started off from was a
toys'r'us kett-car modified with real rubber wheels from, you guessed it,
Harborfreighttools.com
The kart frame I could have gotten from toysrus dotcom, but since we had one
here in vallejo, might as well take the kid with me down to the store and get
him some goodies (game boy games) as well as me! (the kart was billed as a "for
the kid" project...whos the kid?? :-) ev grin!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 2:40 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: single drive wheel for go cart?
Does anyone know offhand where I could get the setup to do a single drive
wheel. I'm really looking to do two but want each driven seperately yet not
shaft driven by a motor.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #40: Exhibitor Profile: Miles ZX40
Kevin Kiley is the President of the Miles Automotive Group
(MilesAutomotive.com) had white 4-door EV on display at the press event. "It
is a low speed, Neighborhood Electric Vehicle (NEV). The top speed allowed by
NHTSA Standard 500 is 25 Miles Per Hour. They are currently legal in 47
states. They can be licensed and driven on roads with a posted speed limit of
35 MPH or less. We import them from China as you see it.
"The car is offered as both a 2-seat and 4-seat model. It is all steel, using
reinforced steel construction. It is manufactured as an electric vehicle with
4 sealed, deep cycle, glass mat, lead acid batteries; two in the front (under
the hood) and two in the rear." These are very big 12 Volt battery blocks.
"They weigh 117 pounds each. So it is a 48 Volt system. There is a DC-DC
converter for the 12 Volt loads and a Curtis 1204-404 controller that drives
the front-wheel drive brushed DC electric motor. The range is approximately 40
miles per charge, and the intelligent charger will recharge over night from
either 110 or 220 Volts AC.
I noticed a PulseTech PowerPulse Battery Maintenance box on the firewall of the
motor compartment. "It is a battery life extender. It sends a deep cycle
charge into the batteries and cleans them. Lead acid batteries build up
deposits over time, but the PowerPulse extends the battery life by as much as
50 percent."
The car has been in development for about two years. "The car has been on the
market for 6 months and we have sold about 60 cars to military bases, college
campuses, utilities, prison systems; primarily fleets. The car can be
registered and titled as street legal," although you wouldn't want to take it
out on the Interstate.
The unit price of a ZX40 is $14,800, plus options.
"We think we have a very good market in those customers. Down the road we have
several other models under development. The ZX70, to be introduced in June,
uses the same platform with a more powerful motor and controller and two more
batteries, and the range increases to 60 miles per charge, and the speed to 35
MPH. That will be for off-road use only because our research tells us there
are a lot of fleet customers who don't intend to register cars that they don't
use on the roads. But they would like something with a bit more power and
range."
In late 2007 they hope to introduce the XS200 All Electric Vehicle powered by
breakthrough Chinese Lithium-Ion technology, promising an anticipated speed of
up to 80 miles per hour and a range of 200 miles. Projected MSRP: $28,500
Onboard 110V (20 Amp) or 220V (15 Amp) Compatible Charger
5 - 8 Hours Charge Time
GVWR: 2491 lbs
Maintenance-Free Advanced Sealed Lead Acid Battery
2 Vinyl Seats
41 cubic feet of Storage Space
Heavy Steel Construction
Side Impact Door Beams
D.O.T. Certified 3-Point Seat Belts
D.O.T. Certified Tires
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #41: Photos - Miles Automotive ZX40
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006/photos_018.html
Miles Automotive ZX40
A simple, practical battery electric vehicle for neighborhood and off-road use.
Under the hood is not very crowded.
The rear batteries hide below the floor.
The interior looks comfortable.
The roof luggage racks cost $175 extra.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You have the copyright. Your brother holding the hub/flywheel can prove it.
I would report him to Ebay and send him the cease and decease "smack down"
letter. It may not be written by a lawyer. But written well enough it could
give judge Judy a field day on him. He is probably the same guy who takes
your idea and goes around the office saying "Look at the great idea I came
up with."
I do have to agree with the statement made that ever though is a crappy
thing to do. It is promoting EVs and we sure could use more of that. I would
say maybe trying to work out a deal where you get a cut of the BIG money. I
just don't think he is going to be retiring off this and that would be a
waste of time. Plus I just won't trust the guy anyway.
I found these two example letters.
( http://www.webmastertechniques.com/Insight/cease.html )
or this ( http://www.rightsforartists.com/examcease.html )
What ever you do. Add that copyright to your page as soon as possible. I
don't know if it is possible to date it back to when you made it. I would
and why not? I would think you could since you are the creator of the work
and don't need a copyright notice to have the copyright. Maybe come up with
some terms for the copyright like you can share it as long as you don't
charge money for it kind of thing.
Ted
Olympia, WA
N47 02.743 W122 53.772
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: EV Copyright Infringement running rampant
Hey guys,
I just checked the PDF file that Dan Hartman sent me and sure enough this
guy stole the complete "Build an EV" section just as it appears on the
EVA/DC website including all my illustrations, pictures (including my
brother in-law holding the hub/flywheel assembly for the motor) and all
the text I wrote word for word.
And he's selling it on Ebay for $4.99
Then he has the audacity to say in the opening page in big Red and Black
letters:
"Copyright Notice
This File is Protected By Copyright 2000-20006
No Part May Be Reproduced
No Part May Be Resold
No Part May Be Given Away or Transferred
Violators Will Be Prosecuted
This File is Encoded With Your Email Address AND Postal Address"
This is the part I can't believe. Someone steals your stuff and then puts
up a notice threatening to prosecute people for the stuff he stole.
Unbelievable.
I don't mind people using the information. That's why its on the EVA/DC
website for anyone to use so we can get more EVs on the road. But taking
it and trying to call it your own and profiting from it is going over the
top.
Dan sent me all the info to write a complaint to Ebay so I'm going to
report him.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to differ, but a 1970's car with no airbags, and
no luxury of lots of replacement parts, should it get
hit?
Thanks, I'll stick with the Civvy.
2220 glider; 3330 full o' USBatts!
peace,
--- Dave Roekle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John--
>
> Thanks for your comments and suggestions.
>
> The speed is not important to me as most of my
> driving is around town, 4-6
> mile trips, under 40 mph. Also, I am back home
> after most trips, so I could
> always "top-off" the batteries several times daily.
> 50-60 mile range would
> be great, but the more I think about it, 35-50 would
> be acceptable.
>
> I will start looking for a Datsun 1200 and see if it
> fits me or not.
>
> Thanks again for your suggestions.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John Westlund
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 3:29 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Donor Car Recommendations for EV
> Conversion
>
> Unless you're willing to sacrifice seating 4 adults
> and
> instead compromise for 2 or 3 adults, meeting your
> range
> goal on a $12,000 budget will be difficult.
>
> But $12,000 is a lot to work with for a conversion.
> Most
> conversions cost $6,000-8,000.
>
> For the type of car you describe, I'd recommend
> looking for
> something that is:
>
> a) lightweight, under 2,000 pounds
> b) seats 4
> c) is aerodynamic
> d) has a reasonable amount of room for batteries
>
> Not many cars will meet this criteria. In fact, none
> available in the U.S. might meet it at all. Finding
> the
> right donor won't be easy.
>
> But do some research.
>
> Look into a Datsun 1200. Stock, they are 1,600
> pounds and
> have decent aerodynamics. John Wayland has a Datsun
> 1200
> conversion named Blue Meanie. It will get about
> 35-40 miles
> range at 60 mph with a battery pack of 17 Exide
> Orbitals.
> This is a 697 pound battery pack, with an EV
> weighing 2,400
> pounds, much of that being stereo equipment. It has
> an
> Advanced DC 9" motor, Zilla 1k controller, does 0-60
> mph
> in under 6 seconds, and tops out at around 125 mph.
> It seats
> 4 adults.
>
> However, you want more range than that.
>
> The only way to get it is to add more batteries. You
> might
> be able to do 80-100 miles range under gentle
> driving, *IF*
> you can fit a 348V pack of Exide Orbital AGM
> batteries,
> weighing in at 1,189 pounds or perhaps a 144V pack
> of Trojan
> T105 flooded lead acid batteries weighing in at
> 1,464 pounds
> if you're less concerned about performance and don't
> care
> about acceleration. Both setups would handily exceed
> your
> performance goals. $12,000 can get you acceleration
> like a
> Ferrari or Porsche in an EV, use it wisely! Go with
> wet
> cells, and the price will drop along with the
> acceleration.
>
> There are no guarantees on range, as driving style
> is a big
> factor. But in theory, it is possible, but
> difficult, to
> meet your goals.
>
> The following setup will get you 0-60 mph in 6
> seconds, top
> speed of 120+ mph, and an estimated range of 80+
> miles at 60
> mph in a Datsun 1200:
>
> -WarP 9'' series DC motor x1 $1,395
> -Exide Orbital battery x29 $2,784
> -Godzilla Controller(72-348V DC, 1,000 amp max, hall
> effect
> pedal input) x1 $2,830
> -PFC 20 Charger x1 $1,500
> -Miscellaneous components(Heat shrink tubing, tools,
> adaptor
> plate, fuses, ect.) $2,000
> -Rudman MkIIB Battery Regulators x29 $1,305
> -Datsun 1200 in good condition $2,000
>
> Total: $13,814
>
> Doesn't include shipping costs and assumes you do
> your own
> work on the battery racks, adaptor plate, ect.
>
> You could do a conversion with less performance and
> similar
> range(in theory) for much cheaper, if you are
> willing to
> sacrifice performance and sacrifice the zero
> maintenance
> that AGM batteries offer. Using cheaper but
> dramatically
> less powerful flooded batteries would make the car
> very
> cheap to operate and far cheaper to build at around
> $7,000.
> Even with flooded golf cart batteries, it would
> still be
> possible to achieve an 85-90 mph top speed in a
> Datsun 1200
> using a 120-144V pack, so 60 mph is not out of the
> question
> at all!
>
> Further, low rolling resistance tires would be a
> must for
> this range.
>
> In theory, this car would get over 80 miles range,
> needing
> only 25-30 amps to maintain 60 mph if you go with an
> AGM
> setup of 348V. If you go lower speeds, range will
> improve.
> Go faster, it will drop. Accelerate fast, range will
> suffer
> greatly.
>
> You also do not want to fully discharge your
> batteries, as
> it will shorten their life and increase your
> operating
> costs. You want to routinely discharge them 30-50%
> to
> maximize life. So if your daily range is 50-75
> miles, you
> better have charging in between stops.
>
> At 35 mph, you'd have no problem getting 100 miles
> range, on
> the other hand. What speed do yuo need that range?
>
> With such a conversion, you'd certainly be treading
> new
> ground, and success cannot be guaranteed as it's
> theoretical. Be careful.
>
>
>
> It is possible to get 100+ miles range in an EV on a
> $7,000
> budget or so. But this EV would be a small pickup,
> like an
> 80s model Chevy S10, and such a vehicle can usually
> only
> seat 2 or 3 adults, not 4. Taking a small pickup and
> loading
> it up with 2,500 pounds of batteries is proven and
> has been
> demonstrated on a repeated basis to give 80+ mph top
> speed,
> dreadfully slow acceleration, and range in excess of
> 100
> miles per charge at 60 mph highway speeds. If you're
> willing
> to sacrifice one or two seats, or can find a small
> pickup
> with an extended cab in order to seat 4, this is the
> way
=== message truncated ===
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
