EV Digest 5525
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: copyright infringement
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Limiting Current
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: Good article in Popular Mechanics.
by "Jay Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Hi voltage DC-DC problem
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Contactor Coil Control
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hi voltage DC-DC problem
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Contactor Coil Control
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: AC vs. DC - hopefully ending (for now...)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lee's regs in action
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) re: range extension
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Who Killed the Electric Car
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Hi voltage DC-DC problem
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: AC vs. DC & Direct Drive
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) calling solar homeowners, EV drivers in SF
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) GM's Wagoner admits killing EV1 was a mistake
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: AC vs. DC & Direct Drive
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: OT: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
by "August Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Scirocco (Rabbit) suspension upgrade
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: copyright infringement
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: OT: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: GM's Wagoner admits killing EV1 was a mistake, Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: OT: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Limiting Current
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Contactor Coil Control
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Acrobat 4 format has a security flaw, it can be cracked instantly with
any one of dozens of programs.
Acrobat 5 (I hope I'm getting these numbers right) is essentially
uncrackable at this time. However, they do not even have a reader for
some platforms and third party tools are still nonexistant AFIAK because
I'm assuming they never even released the info on how such a file is opened.
You will also want to disable the Clipboard function, or they'll just
Select All to clipboard and steal the text in one move. But not being
able to copy bits of text is very annoying to legitimate readers.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On one side, EV hobbyists want to make the information available to the
public.
However, you also want to protect your copyright to information.
I propose publishing your information in self contained Adobe Reader files
that are locked. When locked, it is impossible to copy and past the text
or pictures out of the Adobe file. The best one can do is copy it as .jpg
or print it out then scan it with OCR which would be time consuming. So,
this would at least deter the person from stealing the information if the
original copyright owners signature was on it.
So, now, the only disadvantage is having to purchase Adobe Acrobat so that
you can generate the secure file.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you Roger et. al.
1) Re: the batteries not being limiting; Clip that thought.
In the morning the batteries don't sag excessively.
However, On the drive home (I do get a near 80% recharge at work) the warm
144V batteries can sag to 125 V at 430 battery amps, and the truck can
perform so much better than in the cooler morning. Is it correct to let up
on the pedal so I am not pulling 125V for longer than 1-3 seconds.
I prefer to stay in the 136V range. Is this logical or it doesn't matter
for Trojan.
2) How would one test an inductive throttle sensor? and replace it if it
went bad. Thanks for saving me $150 of buying a resistive one.
Okay, I'll recalibrate the throttle so I can get all 600 Amps.
3) Looking up gear ratios and RPM info. I don't know.
4) I can get 430 A at the beginning of 3rd or 4th gear (no 5th gear), then
"I" will taper off at higher RPM's. However, when warm, I can still get
more Amps if I push it. I can get 50 mph in 3rd gear with about 100-150
Amps depending on gradient.
SO ARE COLD BATTERIES the culprit at 60 degrees F?
The car had the max 156 V, but that extra 120 lb plus a passenger made it
more tank like. Even 144 V is heavy, but manageable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It really is a good article describing all the alternatives. If anyone is
interested here is a link to the article on their website.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/2690341.html
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:46 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Good article in Popular Mechanics.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet or not, but the May issue of
popular mechanics has a good article on Biofuels as well as EVs.
It actually does a pretty fair review on electric vehicles and mentions
the growing demand for plug in hybrids. It mentions that even when EVs
are powered by coal, they only produce about 10% of the polution as ICEs
do.
On the plus side it states that EVs "require no warm up, run almost
silently, and have excellent performance up to the limit of their
range...and are cheap to refuel". The down side is "limited range...and
slow charging". The main hold ups are the need for cheaper, longer
lasting batteries and reduced production costs.
Over all a pretty fair evaluation.
For those you you that care, it also discusses the various biofuels and
what it would take to produce them. For example, in order to produce
enough methanol to eliminate our need for gasoline, it would require 675
million acres of corn, or 71% of the USAs total farm land.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> I need some advice and I know you guys have the answer (or answers).
> I want to run a high voltage pack, 360 volts. But I haven't seen a
> dc-dc that is rated for this voltage.
DC/DCs for this voltage exist for trains, buses, and other large
vehicles. However, they are pretty expensive.
My thought would be to use two DC/DCs built for about half your pack
voltage, and wire each one across a different half of the pack to
balance the load. Connect their outputs in parallel with commoning
diodes. 180vdc is about right for running a switchmode power supply that
is actually built for 240vac.
I wouldn't try to use one designed for 240vac on the entire pack,
because they will have used 400vdc capacitors, which don't have enough
safety margin for a 360vdc pack (which can reach 2.5v/cell x 180 cells =
450vdc).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using Kilovac EV-250-1A contactors in my conversion. Shortly
after I installed them I discovered that they require an external coil
economizer (as in, they can't withstand 12V continuously). I just
recieved the economizers, but now I have a new problem - They require
"logic level" control. I seem to recall that this means +5V.
I plan to have one wired to turn on with key on, and the other
controlled by the Zilla.
Two questions arise: First, can I just add some diodes to drop the
control voltage to the required +5V on the first contactor (controlled
by the key)? I'd probably feed both the control and the coil power
from the same keyswitch input so turning off the key would definitely
turn off the contactor.
Second, will the same approach work with the one controlled by the
Zilla, and is the supression diode still required at the Hairball? I
would think it couldn't hurt. I would be tying the logic input through
the diodes to the 12V input line, that way the Zilla still controls the
coil power as well as the turn-on signal.
I have a bunch of LED's. It'd certainly be colorful if I used those.
Great for displays, I guess.
I suppose I could try to go find a small 12V to 5V DC-DC, but that just
keeps making it more complicated. The more components you have, the
more likely a failure is to happen.
A related question is how do I mount these things? They are bare
circuit boards, a bit smaller than Rudman Regs. I'd like to have some
degree of water resistance in the mounting. I was thinking about using
VHB tape to attach them to a fiberglass panel, and attaching that panel
to the final location. Sound reasonable?
Thanks!
David Brandt
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Vicor DC/DC converters are typically adjustable from -50 to +10% from nominal
setpoint...i.e. a 12v converter could be trimmed from 6 to 13.2v.
-MT
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > 300V Vicor dc/dc units take 200-400Vdc inputs and other EV-ers have
> > used them.
> >
> Actually, I did pick up a Vicor to play with but wasn't sure if it would do
> the
> job. Occasionally
> I've seen some Vicors rated for 375 volt input, but these are rare and
> pricey.
> My pack will be
> made up of NiCad cells, but I won't be running all 300 of them right away. I
> hope to get the car
> on the road with close to 200 to start, and then add more cells as I build
> the
> boxes.
>
> I have a 24 volt main contactor and bought a Vicor 300v-24v to power it. But
> this would leave me
> in a position where a full pack would be too much for the dc-dc and I
> couldn't
> close my main
> contactor. Doh!
>
> I believe that some of the Vicors have the ability to adjust the output
> voltage,
> has anyone bumped
> the 12 volt output of a Vicor up to 13-14 volts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/25/06, David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
They require
"logic level" control. I seem to recall that this means +5V.
I plan to have one wired to turn on with key on, and the other
controlled by the Zilla.
Two questions arise: First, can I just add some diodes to drop the
control voltage to the required +5V on the first contactor (controlled
by the key)?
Use a resistor. Try 4k7, or 1k if that doesn't work. The inputs will
almost certainly be protected, clamped to 5V, but if you're worried
about frying them, use a 4.7V zener to 0v on each input as well.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Claudio Natoli wrote:
> 6.2v or 6.8v zeners? I assumed you'd need to pick a figure close to,
> but above, the full charge voltage (genuinely curious, in the hope
> of learning something).
Try 6.8v if these are flooded or AGM 6v, or 6.2v for gels where you want
to hold the voltage down more.
> Conversely, I was thinking for 8 volters that a 9.1V zener would be
> about right, but I note from the archives that you've gone with 2x
> 5.1V in the past.
You want a zener that draws negligible current when you aren't charging.
The fully charged voltage for lead-acid is around 2.1v/cell, which is
6.3v for a 6v battery, 8.4v for an 8v battery, or 12.6v for a 12v
battery. AGMs tend to be a little higher, and floodeds can tolerate a
little more.
> Does the lamp characteristics make this much of a muchness
It just provides a roughly constant current once the zeners start to
conduct.
> is there a reason to go with the higher (or a pair?) of zeners?
I used a pair because two 5w zeners are cheaper than a 10w zener. Also,
I could put one in each battery terminal, to split the heat between them
rather than concentrating it all at one point. Also (I never do anything
for one reason :-) because the temperature coefficient of zeners around
7v is roughly zero.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 18:41 -0700, Roger Stockton wrote:
>> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>>
>
>> So, perhaps we need to temper the wide RPM range allowing the shift-free
>> benefit with the caveat that this is a theoretical benefit that may not
>> realisable in practice unless one has the ability to configure the car
>> with the optimum fixed reduction ratio.
>
> yes, but a higher RPM system does not need as strong a drivetrain.
> You won't need to design to handle the high torque of
> a lower top-RPM DC system driving a tall fixed-gear on starts.
Not true. The output torque (wheel torque) is going to be the same so the
outptu section of the tranny will be under the same stresses, this is the
part that normally breaks anyway.
>
> I think most of us agree that for a general-purpose,
> all-around, designed from the ground up as electric vehicle,
> AC has a lot of advantages.
> With production volume, cost should come down.
Sure. The extra parts in an AC controllerthat are fairly cheap compared
to the total cost of production, so you might as well use AC and the
cheaper AC motors, and get regen tossed in for free.
> In the real world, DC is still more practical for
> most conversions.
> Many people on this list prefer the torquey DC-starts
> to the AC features.
Since high spinning AC systems need a larger reduction ratio, they could
produce just as much starting torque as the DC setups (assuming both
systmes had similar power levels).
The only real advantage AC has, is easy and efficient REGEN, and slightly
higher efficiency because the PWM components double as the electronic
comutator and therefor save the few percent lost in the brushes.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
.
Lee, the regs seem to work. I have thought about writing this up for Home
Power or something under the title of "Lee's amazing regs". People should
hear about this; a $1.00 regulator is kind of neat.
Chris
Where did you buy the 5 watt zinors ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 25 May 2006 at 11:01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I hope EV hobbyists realize, it won't help the EV
> industry to sell a car claiming 156 miles only for the consumer to
> discover he should not have driven it faster that 45 mph average to attain
> that range.
You bet. I've seen it happen again and again over the years - a manufacturer
exaggerates range and sets buyers up for disappointment when it turns out
the car won't work for the buyer's commute after all. Add the very frequent
lack of dealer support and reliabilty problems that have plagued some of the
factory EVs in the past, and you end up with altogether too many converts
FROM EVs rather than TO EVs.
I certainly don't agree with what GM did to the EV1. It breaks my heart to
see those piles of crushed EVs. But if they knew they were going to
abandon the owners and not support the cars, I have to admit that it was
probably better for GM's corporate image to destroy the cars than to have
their name attached to EVs which, one by one, just quit working. I don't
want to get into an argument over whether GM should have sold the EV1 and
provided support - what I or we wish didn't happen because for whatever
reason they obviously weren't willing to sell and service them, so it's a moot
point.
This is my concern for the RAVs and Rangers, too. The good news is that
they seem to be superior in usability - and probably in reliability - to
earlier
EVs, certainly to the old Citicars and even to many of the '80s vintage
conversions. (Certainly there were exceptions.) But when dealer support
dries up, who's going to keep them going? Many of the owners don't want to
maintain them, and because of the proprietary design they often can't
anyway. I just hope that some third party emerges to handle this issue.
Otherwise we EV hobbyists will be getting some cheap gliders to reconvert in
a few years.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got invited to a pre screening of the movie in
Pasadena next Saturday. The Pasadena Weekly is hosting
the screening and will be writing a article on EVs. I
was excited when I read Bob's posting about seeing the
movie on the east coast and was wondering when it was
going to open out here. I was quite surprised and
thrilled to get the e-mail inviting me to the
screening.
TiM
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
steve clunn wrote:
> Where did you buy the 5 watt zinors ?
Mouser.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where did you buy the 5 watt zinors ?
Mouser. Here is a list of the parts I bought:
606-PR2 PR2 Chicago Miniature Incandescent Base Flange
2.38V .5A 50 $0.560 $28.00 7 Shipped
43 Shipped
4/24/2006
5/3/2006
27718023
27740929
526-1N5341B 1N5341B NTE replacement Diodes/Rectifiers
6.2V 5W ZENER DIODE 50 $0.760 $38.00 50 Shipped
4/24/2006
27718023
610-CZ5342B CZ5342B Central Semi Diodes - Zener
6.8V 5.0W 50 $0.520 $26.00 50 Shipped
4/24/2006
27718023
660-MF1/2DLT52R10R0F MF1/2DLT52R10R0F KOA Speer 1/2Watt Metal
Film Resistors
10ohms 1% 100PPM 60 $0.090 $5.40 60 Shipped
4/24/2006
27718023
And of course you need potting compound:
1 590-832-TC-450ML
Epoxy Compound 1 1 0 $29.95 $29.95
The smaller lugs are standard Home Depot 12-10 gauge yellow lugs; the
smaller diode fits in them. For the larger one I used heavy-duty 6ga
tinned eyelets, with a 5/16" bolt hole, from Waytek Wire, part# 36472.
That should do it. Just go out and get some parts and build the things.
They're not that complicated :-)
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My thought would be to use two DC/DCs built for about half your pack
> voltage, and wire each one across a different half of the pack to
> balance the load. Connect their outputs in parallel with commoning
> diodes.
Execellent. Why are the simple solutions so hard to see?
One more question about paralleling things. Suppose I had the following
configuration. I want to
use batteries in addition to the dc-dc to power the car accessories, but I also
need 24 volts for
some things. I start with this for my 24 volt components;
+ 24v DCDC -
| |
| |
| |
| |
********* *********
* 12v * * 12v *
*+ -*---*+ -*
* * * *
********* *********
| |
| \ key switch
| \
| |
|__ 24 volt ______|
contactor
But if I want to draw 12 volts from the same batteries, can I do this? Is there
a risk of
unbalancing the 12 volt batteries or will the 24v dc-dc keep them in good shape?
+ 24v DCDC -
| |
| |
| |
| |
********* *********
* 12v * * 12v *
*+ -*---*+ -*
* * * *
********* *********
| # #|
| # # \
| # # \
| # #|
|__ 24 volt _#____#|
contactor # #
# #
12 volt
load
Or this, to keep things in balance?
+ 24v DCDC -
| |
| |
| |
| |
********* *********
* 12v * * 12v *
*+ -*-----*+ -*
* * * *
********* *********
|# % # %|
|# % # % \
|# % # % \
|# % 24 # %|
|#____%__volt__#____%|
# % load # %
# % # %
# % ######## %
# %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
# # %
######## %
# %
+ -
12 volt
load
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
> >While Blue Meanie is another great example of a DC EV that
> >can offer a shift-free driving experience, I think it is
> >only fair to point out that to compare it on equal footing
> >to one of Victor's AC drive systems, the Blue Meanie needs
> >to have 2x the battery it presently does.
>
> Why?
Because performance includes range. If the AC system uses 26 Optimas vs
the Meanie's 13, it will have *at least* 2x the range. And, of course,
the acceleration of the AC system will be worsened by having to carry 2x
the battery weight as the Meanie.
As you observe, one could use batteries of 1/2 the capacity in the AC
system to equalise the battery pack weights and vehicle ranges, however,
this makes it more difficult to make an even comparison as one must then
compare costs of completely different battery types and models. If we
simply require that both cars use the same amount of the same type of
battery, then we know the weight and capacity and cost are equal and can
ignore the battery for the sake of comparison.
If one were to use a pack of smaller batteries for the AC system, it
would arguably be foolish to use expensive Hawkers in an application
where the peak current demand is only about 300A and cruising current is
more likely on the order of 25-30A; this is an advantage of the high
voltage system over the low voltage one: the low voltage system *must*
use batteries capable of surviving high currents in a lightweight, high
performance vehicle and this means Optimas, Orbitals, or Hawkers. The
more modest demands placed on the battery by the high voltage AC system
allow the use of (cheaper) batteries the DC system can't even consider,
such as gels and other "lower performance" AGMs.
> I have used the current set of 13 Optimas in Blue Meanie now for 6+
> years without any BMS. You can do this with lower numbers of larger
> batteries in lower voltage setups.
Ignorance is bliss ;^> What I mean by that, John, is that I don't
believe you have the instrumentation available to you to actually know
just what you are doing to your battery pack. If you had the ability to
monitor the voltages of each and every battery in the string while you
are charging you would most definitely appreciate that 156V is *way*
more than long enough of a string that you will get into trouble
charging without regs or an intelligent charger. I've done this on
strings shorter than 156V and seen the behaviour, and now that Rich has
Mk3 regs to play with, he has the ability to collect this data and I'm
sure he would be happy to share with you plots of what the battery
voltages in a 156V string look like without regs (provided of course
that he is willing to run a charge on his own pack with the regs
disabled...)
> I was originally taking exception to Victor's statement that
> you cannot make a direct drive system with DC. That's simply
> not true.
Agreed. I think that point has been made quite effectively.
> I used White Zombie as an example because it is a daily
> driven DC car that works extremely well in direct drive
> format, but then Victor took exception to it because of
> it's 'racing nature'.
While it does work well in direct drive, I would agree with Victor that
it really isn't a good example since it lacks certain features that
reasonable people consider standard in a road car... such as reverse.
;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We're planning our second San Francisco Solar Homes &
Electric Vehicles Tour for Saturday, Sept. 30, between
10 a.m. and 4 p.m.
If you have a solar home in SF and would be willing to
let people visit and talk with you about it, please
contact me. The tour was a big hit last year, and
brought us good publicity and some funding.
If you have an EV but not a solar home and would be
willing to park your EV outside the home of someone on
the tour who doesn't yet have an EV, that would be
great too.
Sherry Boschert, SFEVA
www.sfeva.org
415-681-7716
Author,
Plug-in Hybrids: The Cars that Will Recharge America
(Coming Fall, 2006 from New Society Publishers)
Advance orders at www.sherryboschert.com
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message 1 From Electric vehicles for sale.
From: "doug korthof" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu May 25, 2006 9:06am(PDT)
Subject: GM's Wagoner admits killing EV1 was a mistake
"Motor Trend, June 2006, p. 94
"Interview With Rick Wagoner
"His worst decision?
"...'Axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right
resources into hybrids. It didn't affect profitability, but it did
affect image.'"
----------------------------------------
Hi,
The following letter in support of plug-in clean cars went to
MotorTrend.
Please consider copying it to your local newspaper, or to gm itself
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
might get there.
In addition, please help talk about the upcoming documentary,
"Who Killed the Electric Car", to be released by Sony on June 28
You can see a preview on http://www.comingsoon.net/films.php?id=12796
and join the Yahoo group promoting sale of plug-in cars at
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/electric_vehicles_for_sale/
Oil dependence vs. energy independence, is a *choice* that must be
allowed the car buyer. Until the auto and oil companies relent, and
allow oil-free cars again, that choice will be denied the caring
Citizen.
If families are given the right to buy an oil-free car, many will
volunteer to install their own solar system, and bypass oil almost
entirely. Naturally, this idea has a big enemy in Chevron, which
currently controls the worldwide patent rights to the NiMH batteries
needed by EVs.
Now that GM has admitted complicity, can the oil companies continue
to escape responsibility and deny guilt?
/Doug
------------------------------------------------------------
Editor, MotorTrend Magazine
RE: Interview with Rick Wagoner
Dear Editor:
The GM CEO who killed the EV1 has admitted that it was his "worst
decision" ("Interview with Rick Wagoner", June, 2006).
EV1 drivers, who were loyal to GM and endured its bullying and
leasing tyranny, remained fanatically devoted to their oil-free EV1
cars.
These EV1 drivers felt betrayed by GM. Toyota seized the
opportunity, selling their excellent oil-free RAV4-EV.
Consequently, all this loyalty was transferred to Toyota, which now
has the reputation not only for its hybrid cars, but for the cachet
of those hundreds of well-heeled RAV4-EV drivers who now sing the
praises of Toyota as the only true "green" car company.
Wagoner handed this powerful corps of Evangelists to Toyota, along
with the plug-in technology it had acquired when it bought Hughes.
Instead of assessing blame, isn't it time General Motors started
reclaiming some of the clean-car image it has handed to Toyota?
An apology to former EV1 drivers for killing their car, a resumption
of plug-in serial hybrid and EV1 production, and the sale on the
open market to willing purchasers of pollution-free EV1 cars would
be a timely way for Wagoner to capitalize on this lost asset, and to
turn scorn into admiration.
Name__
Addr__
City__
Phone__
-----------------------------------------------
"Motor Trend, June 2006, p. 94
"Interview With Rick Wagoner
"His worst decision?
"...'Axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right
resources into hybrids. It didn't affect profitability, but it did
affect image.'"
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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John Wayland wrote:
I was originally taking exception to Victor's statement that you cannot
make a direct drive system with DC. That's simply not true.
Perhaps misunderstanding; this can be done and Zombie as well
as Meanie and other vehicles use it. But Zombie requires
9" ford differential heaviest you can find (and you don't
include the cost of that). Else tall gears not meant to
take such a torque in ICE by design, are too stressed.
Lower gears are not. I think Otmar posted a photo
one time of stripped teeth in a gear box or differential,
I don't remember which one.
Other than that, of course direct drive is doable.
Just crude and stressful for everything else, which
isn't acceptable in OEM industry AC drives are meant
to be used in. There is liability and warranty issue
here. But for tinkering individuals willing to accept
the risk of breaking something and save $2-3k in return
it may worth it.
Victor
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I also don't know why this bothers anyone. In another life as a Ham Radio
operator, I have scanned and converted to PDF many manuals for old WWII
Military Boatanchor Radios. I have them all available for free at one of my
web sites, www.kg7bz.net. I have seen others selling CDs on eBay that
contain manuals that were obviously taken from my web site (same stains on
the same page, etc.) and it's not bothering me at all. I don't even bother
turning on any protection in Acrobat, sometimes it hinders some of the users
that want to print my manual or something. I look at is as though someone
thought enough of my work to think it's worth selling.
August Johnson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of damon henry
> Subject: RE: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
>
> I really have a hard time understanding why anyone is bothered by this.
> Obviously if you have posted some knowledge free on the internet where
> anyone in the world can download and use it, you are trying to get the
> word
> out
...
> damon
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Mike Phillips wrote:
Could you assemble a pack that has mismatched SOC levels and report
back how well and how long it takes to get back into balance?
Yaknow, if there's one thing a Prizm owner has it's a stack of blown out
batteries. I've got a bunch in various states of charge, discharge, and
the like.
Hm. Maybe I can set up two strings of 3 broken hawkers with regs and
disconnect the elec-trak's NiCD batteries for a few weeks. Put them on
the E20 charger with little regs and see what happens.
Chris
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Is there a fairly simple and cheap way to upgrade the springs in my Scirocco?
Can I go to the junk yard and pull the springs and/or other parts from some
other model VW and bolt them on? I'm carrying 15 - 8v lead acid.
Thanks
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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On Thu, 25 May 2006 10:18:44 -0500, Danny Miller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Acrobat 4 format has a security flaw, it can be cracked instantly with
>any one of dozens of programs.
>Acrobat 5 (I hope I'm getting these numbers right) is essentially
>uncrackable at this time. However, they do not even have a reader for
>some platforms and third party tools are still nonexistant AFIAK because
>I'm assuming they never even released the info on how such a file is opened.
>
>You will also want to disable the Clipboard function, or they'll just
>Select All to clipboard and steal the text in one move. But not being
>able to copy bits of text is very annoying to legitimate readers.
All this waste of mental energy for a free document.
Help me, Lord, for I am drowning in a sea of stupidity.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
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On Thu, 25 May 2006 12:35:35 -0700, "August Johnson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I also don't know why this bothers anyone. In another life as a Ham Radio
>operator, I have scanned and converted to PDF many manuals for old WWII
>Military Boatanchor Radios. I have them all available for free at one of my
>web sites, www.kg7bz.net. I have seen others selling CDs on eBay that
>contain manuals that were obviously taken from my web site (same stains on
>the same page, etc.) and it's not bothering me at all. I don't even bother
>turning on any protection in Acrobat, sometimes it hinders some of the users
>that want to print my manual or something. I look at is as though someone
>thought enough of my work to think it's worth selling.
>
Bingo!!!! Give that man the cigar.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:23 PM
Subject: GM's Wagoner admits killing EV1 was a mistake
> Message 1 From Electric vehicles for sale.
> From: "doug korthof" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thu May 25, 2006 9:06am(PDT)
> Subject: GM's Wagoner admits killing EV1 was a mistake
>
> "Motor Trend, June 2006, p. 94
> "Interview With Rick Wagoner
> "His worst decision?
> "...'Axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right
> resources into hybrids. It didn't affect profitability, but it did
> affect image.'"
>
Hi EVerybody;
Well, well, as they are going down the tubes! With all their hot shot
lawyers ,how come they didn't sell the car as a tax writeoff, claim it was
the loss they said it was, and take the money and run? EVen if they were
losing money the EV Image coulda given them good green press, as well as a
buncha happy drivers good mouthing GM. THAT could help them in their
finantial morras that they are in, now?
My two amps worth
Bob
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I am surprised and dismayed by the series of ego-posters who have chosen
to chide Chip over his concern for the abuse of his IPR. It is amazing
to read the self-promotion of these others, who tell Chip he should not
be concerned (even angered) over the *theft* of his work.
Each poster who has taken this holier-than-thou attitude has also taken
the time to carefully inform us of their own IP production, portraying
themselves as benevolent and generous contributors to the masses, who
don't care what happens to their alleged contributions, implying or
outright stating that Chip is being small or petty in even thinking of
defending his IPR.
Gentle people, the theft of IP is a crime. The act of relabeling IP and
foisting it off as one's one work is a morally reprehensible act. The
sale of that stolen IP is a fraud, perpetrated now, with your implicit
support. You can be Darwinian and snicker at the silly fools who bought
what they could have had for free, and you can take the stance that Chip
is silly for insisting that he has IP rights, but then you are not
helping him, or anyone else who produces IP-- you're just supporting the
thief.
Chip, I would recommend that you contact the EFF (http://www.eff.org),
an organization that is very familiar with the type of miscreant you
have encountered. They understand that distributing something for free
does not automatically make it freely-distributable, and they have a
vast amount of experience with the low-lifes who repackage and sell
others' works as their own.
Good hunting.
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Ben wrote:
> 1) Re: the batteries not being limiting; Clip that thought.
> In the morning the batteries don't sag excessively.
>
> However, On the drive home (I do get a near 80% recharge at
> work) the warm 144V batteries can sag to 125 V at 430
> battery amps, and the truck can perform so much better than
> in the cooler morning.
OK you've got me confused! ;^>
In the morning, the batteries are cold but the voltage doesn't sag much.
In the afternoon, the batteries are warmer (but only 80% charged), and
the voltage sags more but the truck performs better?
You note that the warm batteries sag to 125V @ 430A; what do the cool
batteries sag to at 430A? Is it simply that in the morning you can't
pull 430A, and the batteries don't sag as much at the lower current that
you do pull?
The behaviour I would expect is that the cool batteries will deliver the
same current as the warm ones, at least at lower motor speeds, but the
voltage should sag *more* at a given current draw than the warm
batteries.
> Is it correct to let up on the pedal so I am not pulling
> 125V for longer than 1-3 seconds.
If you know the pack is at a high state of charge, then I wouldn't worry
too greatly about the voltage sagging to 125V when pulling high current.
125V is just a bit under the 1.75V/cell level that EVers try to stay
above, but if the pack is known to be at a high state of charge then you
know most of the voltage sag is due to voltage drop in the wiring and
internal resistance of the batteries, not because you have one or more
cells in danger of reversal.
> I prefer to stay in the 136V range. Is this logical or it
> doesn't matter for Trojan.
Higher voltage definitely implies that you are taking it easier on the
batteries, and they should reward you with longer life than if you
hammer them with high currents that sag them to lower voltages. If the
vehicle performs acceptably limiting the current draws that sag you to
125V to just a few seconds and trying to limit the current such that the
voltage stays over 136V the rest of the time, go for it.
> 2) How would one test an inductive throttle sensor? and
> replace it if it went bad.
It is just a bunch of wire wound in a coil and potted; about the only
way it can fail is to fail open or for one turn to short to another.
Either is extremely unlikely. If it did fail, I don't know if there is
a source for new sensors or not. Rich Rudman might be able to provide
suggestions of the number of turns, etc. to use if you needed to
construct a replacement.
Given that the throttle is still working, it is likely the sensor is
fine. Try calibrating for WOT, and don't worry about the sensor health
unless you run out of adjustment range without being able to get WOT.
> 4) I can get 430 A at the beginning of 3rd or 4th gear (no
> 5th gear), then "I" will taper off at higher RPM's. However,
> when warm, I can still get more Amps if I push it.
This is the confusing part. You seem to observe that the warm pack sags
more than the cold one, yet is able to deliver more current. It should
be the case that the pack whose voltage sags less will be able to supply
more current.
Cheers,
Roger.
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On Thu, 25 May 2006 08:42:45 -0700 (PDT), David Brandt
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I am using Kilovac EV-250-1A contactors in my conversion. Shortly
>after I installed them I discovered that they require an external coil
>economizer (as in, they can't withstand 12V continuously). I just
>recieved the economizers, but now I have a new problem - They require
>"logic level" control. I seem to recall that this means +5V.
>
>I plan to have one wired to turn on with key on, and the other
>controlled by the Zilla.
Look back through the archives for my rather detailed description of a
simple capacitor-resistor peak/hold circuit. That's all you need.
Cost is less than $5 if you buy both the cap and the resistor new and
it'll operate right off your 12 volt "ignition" signal.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
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