EV Digest 5542
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: '81 Jet Electrica & PFC-30 for Sale on eBay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Looking to Hire Skilled EV Help in the Los Angeles Area - (West San
Fernando Valley)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o Comments
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Looking to Hire Skilled EV Help in the Los Angeles Area - (West San
Fernando Valley)
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Newbies at 5thEVer 2006
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Newbies at 5thEVer 2006
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Range/Capacity Check
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: '81 Jet Electrica & PFC-30 for Sale on eBay
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Comments, in short ,it Doesn't!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Gadget's Triumph
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Gadget's Triumph
by Daniel J Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Gadget's Triumph
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Mk3 Regs
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Range/Capacity Check
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Comments, in short ,it Doesn't!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: '81 Jet Electrica & PFC-30 for Sale on eBay
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Small Brushless wheel motor idea
by sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Mount Washington Alternative Vehicle RegattaCorbin Gentry electric
bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage Divisions
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Mount Washington Alternative Vehicle RegattaCorbin Gentry electric
bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Only one bid. Guess the bidder bid high to get it. No other bids. Seems
unusal. LR.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:41 PM
Subject: '81 Jet Electrica & PFC-30 for Sale on eBay
Please forgive the plug, but I just posted an EV for sale on eBay. It is
a nice Jet Electrica which includes the excellent Manzanita Micro PFC-30
charger. The item number is:
4646196612
And here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4646196612
Thanks for looking,
Richard Kelly
'97 NiMH GM S10E
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Doc!
I'm not in LA, (used to be OC, but no longer).
RE: The aux battery: On thing I'd check is to make
certain the stereo is not pulling more current than
it's supposed to. A malfunctioning chip that holds
your presets, clock, etc. will kill your battery fast!
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
+1
our loved pricey flooded batteries life depend on water quality also not
only charger !
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o Comments
> Don't use roof water in batteries!!! Roof water contains dirt, moss,
> bird droppings, dissolved atmospheric gasses, etc. Distilled water can
> be bought for about a dollar per gallon or less.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try Reverend Gadget at Left Coast Conversions (www.leftcoastconversions.com)
in the Los Angeles area. He should be able to help you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: Looking to Hire Skilled EV Help in the Los Angeles Area - (West San
Fernando Valley)
Does anyone on this list have the skill and knowledge, and time, to help
get
a conversion properly running in the West San Fernando Valley of Los
Angeles, (in Reseda, a couple of miles north of the 101 and a few miles
west
of the 405)?
I really need to hire someone to help me, as I can't get these things done
on my own.
Even if you don't live in the area, but if you know someone who does,
please
pass on my contact info.
I need someone to:
- help get the Manzanita Micro PFC 20 adjusted just right - it works, but
I
can't get it properly fine-tuned
- help get the BatMan battery manager working
- help get reg's and install them on the batteries
- help figure out why the auxiliary battery keeps going dead
- help with a good thorough check of everything else, to see if and what
else needs work
I really hope that someone on this list can help.
Looking forward to your e-plies.
Much obliged.
Until next INTERNEcTion -
Take care (and spread it around) -
Peace,
Andy
818/344-7838
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Andy Mars, Ph.D. - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Youth Services from Mars
Educational Consulting, Counseling, and Tutoring Services
Students Taking Action & Responsibility Today
Hands-On Community Service Activities for Children
Camp Exploration
Winter, Spring, & Summer Programs
www.KidsMakeADifference.org
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting
to improve the world." - Anne Frank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes! But you better hurry. The Power of DC is taking place this weekend at
the Mason Dixon Dragway. www.evadc.org
Hope you can make it! Unfortunately, Heidi and I can't make it. We blew all
our money at the Joliet event.
Ken
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops! should have included the email I am responding to. So here it is
again...
Yes! But you better hurry. The Power of DC is taking place this weekend at
the Mason Dixon Dragway. www.evadc.org
Hope you can make it! Unfortunately, Heidi and I can't make it. We blew all
our money at the Joliet event.
Ken
In a message dated 6/1/2006 9:46:53 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I of course missed this event. Is there another one coming anytime soon in
the Raleigh area ?
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: Newbies at 5thEVer 2006
> Wow! What a weekend! As newbies, this was our first EV event and what a
> blast. Too bad about the High Voltage Nationals and Expo rain-out, but,
> the fun
> was no washout!
>
> It was great to meet everyone. Our first contact was Bob Rice. We drove
> by
> Warfield Electric early so we would know where to go for the tour. We
> went
> inside to ask about the afternoon tour. About that time Bob came in to
> transfer
> batteries from his van to the Led Sled. Then Jerry Warfield came out and
> gave us a personal tour of the factory. Then we chatted with Bob and
> admired his
> vehicle literature while he installed the batteries.
>
> Prior to this weekend, I only knew some of the EV people from Internet
> posts
> and websites. So I was very eager to meet some of the people I have read
> about. I learned that John Wayland certainly holds to his classic form;
> after the
> announcement and enormous let down of the raceway rain-out, after the
> confirmation that the race is dead -- no options -- period. John broke
> the cloud of
> gloom weighing down on the crowed when he announced from the back of the
> room,
> "We are going to burn some rubber tomorrow...". I almost cried.
>
> And so it was - May 13, 2006, rubber was burned. The Pep Boys parking lot
> gathering was so much fun and very informative. I don't think I have ever
> attended a parking lot car show where burnouts were conducted. I guess
> the quiet
> EV's help with that! Most of the car shows I attend involve standing
> around
> gawking at parked cars. This one had ACTION! Even the gawking part was
> exciting because the machines are not off-the-shelf hot rods. They are
> all built by
> pioneers in a major turning point in human history.
>
> Many thanks to everyone at this event. It was a real blast!
>
> Ken & Heidi
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.0/341 - Release Date: 5/16/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not bad, if the EV can go the same 80 or 90K miles. I'd guess the electric
cost would be about $3K or a bit more... if your fee is around 5 cents/kWh.
Would you be able to build an EV capable of freeway speeds w/ 80 miles of
range for $10K?
----- Original Message -----
From: "MIKE & PAULA WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Range/Capacity Check
> Example: I pay $10k for a used ICE vehicle, pay it off over 5 years AND
also pay $10K worth of gas in that 5 years. $20K total expense.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, he got it through "Buy Now" just minutes before I went to EBay.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: '81 Jet Electrica & PFC-30 for Sale on eBay
> Only one bid. Guess the bidder bid high to get it. No other bids. Seems
> unusal. LR.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 1, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Don Cameron wrote:
Phone Westach. All of their meters are custom ordered. I purchased
my EV
voltmeter and ammeter from them, so they may be able to build exactly
what
you need. When I spoke with them they understood my high voltage and
amperage needs.
I've already spoken to their custom meter guy, and he was confident
they could build what I've described (for around $200). This doesn't
include painting the face of the meter with the green-yellow-red
background, though. And for $200 I can get an E-meter and be pretty
sure it will work. So I put the idea on the back burner, until this
thread popped up and I thought perhaps the rest of the list might be
interested.
Are you happy with your Westach meters? Did you get them custom-made,
with your numbers painted on the face and the proper scaling already
built in? I'm planning to get meters from them and I'm curious how it
worked out for you.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob is right,
I had some cables coming with my EV when I bought it.
Measured each one and most were well below 1 mOhm.
Two were several mOhms and after probing them better
I found the resistance mainly located in the transition
from the lug to the cable (slightly corroded copper lugs,
apparently not cleaned before crimping)
So I took those lugs off and reworked the cables.
ALL my terminals stay cold, as far as I know.
Only parts that get mildly warm as some runs of 2 AWG cable.
All other cables are 2/0 and stay cold as well.
Most my cables are neither soldered nor crimped, because
I found a bunch of brass clamps that bolt cable up to 2/0
down with a hex bolt and I filed the surface clean to make sure
I had good connection and these clamps provide a 1" square
surface area, matching the Flag terminals on my batteries.
I tried to measure the resistance from battery post to clamp
and to 2/0 cable and it was so low I could hardly move the
mV meter a digit while sending 10A through the connections.
So, the resistance is in the order of 0.1 mOhm.
BTW - I used NOALOX on every contact that was not soldered
(yes, I have a few soldered cables and also a few crimped)
Check those battery cables!
Testing resitance with tools you already have:
- pair of jumper cables
- current limiting power supply
- milliVolt meter (DVM)
Set the power supply to the highest current it can supply
for a while and a low voltage setting, for example 1V 10A
Clamp the jumper cables to the power supply and to the
path that you want to measure resistance of
(for example a cable lug-to-lug or battery post to the
next battery post, where a cable interconnects so you
can measure post-lug + lug-cable + cable + cable-lug + lug-post
resistance total.)
Then hold the DVM test leads to the same object that you clamped
the jumper cables on WITHOUT touching the jumper cable clamps,
so you do not see the jumper cable clamp resistance effects.
You can move the test leads to all intermediate points to check
each part's contribution. Easy to spot the culprit in bad
connections this way.
Success trouble-shooting!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 7:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Comments, in short ,it
Doesn't!
Hi Chuck an' EVerybody;
I read your terminal post and go AGGGGRAH! You arent getting all the
power ya paid for! Terminals SHOULD run stone cold,or damn close to it. IF
you are running two ought welding cable, in ,OK ya said that, say a 100-150
amp setup. I don't know your car's operating voltage. I used to check mine
in SOME of my batteries by just reaching back while driving down the
freeway, BEFORE covering them all up,Feeling things. EVerything was OK to
touch, or if I had a hot one, loooking at the soldered, yes, I hear gasps
from the crimping crowd,I soldered ALL the damn lugs and rarely had heating
issues.The TYPE of terminal on the battery can be an issue here. those
THINGS that the battery people lay awake nights thinking up, USELESS for
EV's type amps. Unless you ask US battery, or bust out and recast new real
automotive posts on your new cells. Tony Ascrizzi and I have gotten pretty
good at recasting new posts on a battery. Not for the squeamish, here, as
with a tad too much heat and EVerything melts through the thin battery
top!!Effectively turning your new battery intio scrap!A REAL battery place
can do this with finesse, often better to pay him to do it!
At the risk of starting the dorment soldering vers crimping theme again,
I'll bettya your lugs are crimped? Metal is only human, and looses it's grip
over time, especially if it was a crappy comnnection, to begin
with.Soldering if done right, is perminent, and tight forEVr.It, too, is
tricky. Ya need a HOT torch, a Bernz -o -matic wont hack, or do it! If you
get it TOO hot the solder wicks up the wire, and you havew a buss bar,
rather than a nice flexable cable connecter.So it is sporting, but ya get
good at it with a 120 volt car!<g>The proof is a , maybe 2-5 volt drop under
load. Many EVers are happy with 10-15 volts drop as a fact of life.NO! You
are heating stuff up!Contributing to Global Warming! So check out yur wiring
AFTER a , say, smoky breakstand or a quick ride about town. Those hot spots
you MAY find are hurting your range and operformance. NOTHING should be too
hot to touch! Living warm, like picking up a kitten, is OK, but searing to
the touch. NO! 150 -200 degrees, you have issues to deal with. IMHO.
My two degreez worth.
Seeya at "DC"
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
> Hi All,
>
> Bringing back an old thread to life and trying to connect to
> another old one that I can't find.
>
> I will be re-making on Saturday some of the 2/0 cables for my
> EV's pack. I have one post that has turned a 250-degF Celsi-Dot
> black, and one that has turned a 200-degF dot. When I was
> fooling with this issue a few months back, and was down at the
> 150-degF level, I replaced each of these cables in turn with my
> emergency "bridger" cable that's about four feet long, and did
> not have any 150-degF Celsi-Dots turning. So ok, clean up the
> posts and regular cables a bit with the wire brush set, get the
> mating surfaces shiny as I can, goo up with a generous hit of
> Noalox, and put things back together. In each case, I would go
> for a few weeks before the Celsi-Dots would start turning again.
> Note that during my monthly battery maintenance, I check and
> tighten the connections a bit to avoid the lead cold flow
> problem. It was not like anything had loosened signficantly when
> the Celsi_Dots had turned. These two posts are now triggering,
> one at 250-degF and the other at 200-degF. Some other posts in
> the pack have triggered some 150-degF dots, but I am not too
> worried about that, as long as they don't get much hotter.
>
> Yesterday I took a stab at trying to figure out where the heat is
> coming from. Out came the full-pack load tester, a Xmas tree -
> looking affair with three big locomotive resistors all immersed
> in a big bucket of water, ready to pull ~75A through the 96V pack
> for several kW. A few months ago, I had taken a shot at 15A with
> the car's heater, but only pulled zeros to three places to the
> right of the decimal point (millivolts) when measuring between
> the post and the cable lug. I thought at 75A there was a chance
> I might get something in the right-most digit, but nooooh,
> nothing, even on the hot post. I was going to measure the
> post-clamp interface, and also post-to-post, to try and compare
> cool-running cable assemblies with warmer ones. I can't measure
> the voltage drop from the clamp to the copper cable, since that
> is covered with heat-shrink tubing. The only other place I can
> think of for heat to come from is inside the battery, and in
> fact, this 1-yr old pack has been far more problematic in this
> respect than the other two packs I've had in my 11-12 years of EV
> driving. I don't know if it has been its somewhat low sgs that
> are causing the problem or what.
>
> Anyways, 75A and 000s on the voltmeter display made me think of
> Bill Dube' posting where he described the use of a Wheatstone
> bridge to figure out the resistance (I have a vague recollection
> of this posting). I think it was at least a good two years ago
> that he posted that, so I can't find it in my own EVDL archives
> extending almost that far back. The archives on the internet,
> and there appear to be several different sets, don't seem to lend
> themselves to a search for a "wheatstone" bridge. (I did find in
> mine and the internet's Brian Hall's reference to one, but that
> was a fictitious story.) There are some wheatstone bridges on
> EBay that are a reasonable price.
>
> Anyways, hope I'm not making the same mistakes, if any, on these
> few new cables. Have to go 50 miles down to the Peninsula where
> the tools are. I'd like some nice cool posts for a change.
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "M Bianchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:57 AM
> Subject: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
>
>
> > I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on
> the terminals
> > of my traction pack. I've used this sort of label on equipment
> to indicate
> > when it is getting overly-hot, even when it isn't hot at the
> moment.
> > See McMaster.com Part Number 9246T15
> >
> > The question is: How hot will a _properly_ connected battery
> terminal get, at
> > say 250 Amps. Clearly one that is badly connected can get to
> the melting point
> > of lead.
> >
> > I'm _guessing_ that 170 degrees F might be a reasonable number,
> but if anyone
> > on the list can say something more certain, I would appreciate
> it.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > Mike Bianchi
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ya know that's great idea. We will be offering quite a
few kits, basically whatever we get requests for. We
are making as much of our kits as standardized as
possible so that we only need a few specialized items
for each different car. We have had lots of requests
for english sports cars, Triumphs, MG's, Sumbeams and
Jaguar E types and earlier. The PT cruiser and Miata
are popular as well. I guess we will start with those.
Gadget
Mr. Gadget, since you are doing a 2nd Triumph, does
this mean you are
planning to sell Triumph kits through Left Coast
Conversions? What
other cars have you settled on?
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd love to see a Porsche Speedster electric conversion kit, ('course
they just us either Tube Frames or Bug Pans). Also, would the
mechanicals work pretty easily on a Neon, since the PT is based on the
Neon?
If EVs are fun, the word will get out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm....What about a kit to convert my '41 Buick Super?
~~If you sometimes get the sudden urge to run around naked,
drink some Windex: It will keep you from streaking.~~
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 8:02 PM
Subject: Gadget's Triumph
Ya know that's great idea. We will be offering quite a
few kits, basically whatever we get requests for. We
are making as much of our kits as standardized as
possible so that we only need a few specialized items
for each different car. We have had lots of requests
for english sports cars, Triumphs, MG's, Sumbeams and
Jaguar E types and earlier. The PT cruiser and Miata
are popular as well. I guess we will start with those.
Gadget
Mr. Gadget, since you are doing a 2nd Triumph, does
this mean you are
planning to sell Triumph kits through Left Coast
Conversions? What
other cars have you settled on?
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Take a look at WinQcad for boards. I like it.
Mike
>
> ... I hate using Eagle so I've been avoiding it.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Perry wrote:
>Not bad, if the EV can go the same 80 or 90K miles. I'd
>guess the electric cost would be about $3K or a bit
>more...
Depends on how long the chassis will last. Electric motors
supposedly can last between 500,000 and 1,000,000 miles
before they need replacement, if a suitable motor is chosen
for the application of the vehicle.
Provided one has sufficient range to make their commute and
some errands each day and keep the discharge below 40% for
routine driving(and maybe fully discharging the batteries
once a month or so for a longer trip), the cost to run an EV
could be like running a gas car, only the gas is
$.80/gallon.
But with routine battery discharges around 80%, the cost can
go way up.
Simply depends on how the car is designed and used. Want to
drive an EV and save money over a gas car? You'll have to
design for that.
>Would you be able to build an EV capable of freeway
>speeds w/ 80 miles of range for $10K?
I can think of many ways to do such.
The cheapest method would be to use a small, lightweight,
aerodynamic donor with decent amounts of battery room. This
donor needs to be sufficiently inexpensive, like a Triumph
GT6, VW Kharmen Ghia, or Datsun 1200. Although not pricey,
these cars ARE rare! Stuff them with about 40% battery
weight, maybe some aerodynamic modifications, and an 80-100
miles range conversion could be had.
But it would still be possible to do such with a truck, like
an 80s Chevy S10, if you select the right battery,
controller, charger, and motor combo. Brian L. Matheny built
an S10 with 120 miles range, and claimed his battery pack
lasted over 40,000 miles before needing replacement. If I
remembor correctly, with the price he paid for his pack, it
worked out to around $.05/mile for batteries. He had a
comment on an EV World blog about it, but the comments to
some of the old blog entries don't appear to exist anymore.
Dick Finley's "Red Beastie", a Toyota XTraCab with 85 mph
top speed, 0-60 mph in 18-20 seconds, and 120 miles range,
could probably be duplicated for around $10k today, less if
acceleration would be sacrificed. This truck probably had a
low battery cost, especially if the typical commute of the
one using it was less than 60 miles.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way I connected most of my cables was using the
"Solderless cable lugs" from O-Z/Gedney, I have type XLH-221
http://www.o-zgedney.com/PDF/L.pdf
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 7:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Comments, in short ,it
Doesn't!
Bob is right,
I had some cables coming with my EV when I bought it.
Measured each one and most were well below 1 mOhm.
Two were several mOhms and after probing them better
I found the resistance mainly located in the transition
from the lug to the cable (slightly corroded copper lugs,
apparently not cleaned before crimping)
So I took those lugs off and reworked the cables.
ALL my terminals stay cold, as far as I know.
Only parts that get mildly warm as some runs of 2 AWG cable.
All other cables are 2/0 and stay cold as well.
Most my cables are neither soldered nor crimped, because
I found a bunch of brass clamps that bolt cable up to 2/0
down with a hex bolt and I filed the surface clean to make sure
I had good connection and these clamps provide a 1" square
surface area, matching the Flag terminals on my batteries.
I tried to measure the resistance from battery post to clamp
and to 2/0 cable and it was so low I could hardly move the
mV meter a digit while sending 10A through the connections.
So, the resistance is in the order of 0.1 mOhm.
BTW - I used NOALOX on every contact that was not soldered
(yes, I have a few soldered cables and also a few crimped)
Check those battery cables!
Testing resitance with tools you already have:
- pair of jumper cables
- current limiting power supply
- milliVolt meter (DVM)
Set the power supply to the highest current it can supply
for a while and a low voltage setting, for example 1V 10A
Clamp the jumper cables to the power supply and to the
path that you want to measure resistance of
(for example a cable lug-to-lug or battery post to the
next battery post, where a cable interconnects so you
can measure post-lug + lug-cable + cable + cable-lug + lug-post
resistance total.)
Then hold the DVM test leads to the same object that you clamped
the jumper cables on WITHOUT touching the jumper cable clamps,
so you do not see the jumper cable clamp resistance effects.
You can move the test leads to all intermediate points to check
each part's contribution. Easy to spot the culprit in bad
connections this way.
Success trouble-shooting!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 7:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Comments, in short ,it
Doesn't!
Hi Chuck an' EVerybody;
I read your terminal post and go AGGGGRAH! You arent getting all the
power ya paid for! Terminals SHOULD run stone cold,or damn close to it. IF
you are running two ought welding cable, in ,OK ya said that, say a 100-150
amp setup. I don't know your car's operating voltage. I used to check mine
in SOME of my batteries by just reaching back while driving down the
freeway, BEFORE covering them all up,Feeling things. EVerything was OK to
touch, or if I had a hot one, loooking at the soldered, yes, I hear gasps
from the crimping crowd,I soldered ALL the damn lugs and rarely had heating
issues.The TYPE of terminal on the battery can be an issue here. those
THINGS that the battery people lay awake nights thinking up, USELESS for
EV's type amps. Unless you ask US battery, or bust out and recast new real
automotive posts on your new cells. Tony Ascrizzi and I have gotten pretty
good at recasting new posts on a battery. Not for the squeamish, here, as
with a tad too much heat and EVerything melts through the thin battery
top!!Effectively turning your new battery intio scrap!A REAL battery place
can do this with finesse, often better to pay him to do it!
At the risk of starting the dorment soldering vers crimping theme again,
I'll bettya your lugs are crimped? Metal is only human, and looses it's grip
over time, especially if it was a crappy comnnection, to begin
with.Soldering if done right, is perminent, and tight forEVr.It, too, is
tricky. Ya need a HOT torch, a Bernz -o -matic wont hack, or do it! If you
get it TOO hot the solder wicks up the wire, and you havew a buss bar,
rather than a nice flexable cable connecter.So it is sporting, but ya get
good at it with a 120 volt car!<g>The proof is a , maybe 2-5 volt drop under
load. Many EVers are happy with 10-15 volts drop as a fact of life.NO! You
are heating stuff up!Contributing to Global Warming! So check out yur wiring
AFTER a , say, smoky breakstand or a quick ride about town. Those hot spots
you MAY find are hurting your range and operformance. NOTHING should be too
hot to touch! Living warm, like picking up a kitten, is OK, but searing to
the touch. NO! 150 -200 degrees, you have issues to deal with. IMHO.
My two degreez worth.
Seeya at "DC"
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
> Hi All,
>
> Bringing back an old thread to life and trying to connect to
> another old one that I can't find.
>
> I will be re-making on Saturday some of the 2/0 cables for my
> EV's pack. I have one post that has turned a 250-degF Celsi-Dot
> black, and one that has turned a 200-degF dot. When I was
> fooling with this issue a few months back, and was down at the
> 150-degF level, I replaced each of these cables in turn with my
> emergency "bridger" cable that's about four feet long, and did
> not have any 150-degF Celsi-Dots turning. So ok, clean up the
> posts and regular cables a bit with the wire brush set, get the
> mating surfaces shiny as I can, goo up with a generous hit of
> Noalox, and put things back together. In each case, I would go
> for a few weeks before the Celsi-Dots would start turning again.
> Note that during my monthly battery maintenance, I check and
> tighten the connections a bit to avoid the lead cold flow
> problem. It was not like anything had loosened signficantly when
> the Celsi_Dots had turned. These two posts are now triggering,
> one at 250-degF and the other at 200-degF. Some other posts in
> the pack have triggered some 150-degF dots, but I am not too
> worried about that, as long as they don't get much hotter.
>
> Yesterday I took a stab at trying to figure out where the heat is
> coming from. Out came the full-pack load tester, a Xmas tree -
> looking affair with three big locomotive resistors all immersed
> in a big bucket of water, ready to pull ~75A through the 96V pack
> for several kW. A few months ago, I had taken a shot at 15A with
> the car's heater, but only pulled zeros to three places to the
> right of the decimal point (millivolts) when measuring between
> the post and the cable lug. I thought at 75A there was a chance
> I might get something in the right-most digit, but nooooh,
> nothing, even on the hot post. I was going to measure the
> post-clamp interface, and also post-to-post, to try and compare
> cool-running cable assemblies with warmer ones. I can't measure
> the voltage drop from the clamp to the copper cable, since that
> is covered with heat-shrink tubing. The only other place I can
> think of for heat to come from is inside the battery, and in
> fact, this 1-yr old pack has been far more problematic in this
> respect than the other two packs I've had in my 11-12 years of EV
> driving. I don't know if it has been its somewhat low sgs that
> are causing the problem or what.
>
> Anyways, 75A and 000s on the voltmeter display made me think of
> Bill Dube' posting where he described the use of a Wheatstone
> bridge to figure out the resistance (I have a vague recollection
> of this posting). I think it was at least a good two years ago
> that he posted that, so I can't find it in my own EVDL archives
> extending almost that far back. The archives on the internet,
> and there appear to be several different sets, don't seem to lend
> themselves to a search for a "wheatstone" bridge. (I did find in
> mine and the internet's Brian Hall's reference to one, but that
> was a fictitious story.) There are some wheatstone bridges on
> EBay that are a reasonable price.
>
> Anyways, hope I'm not making the same mistakes, if any, on these
> few new cables. Have to go 50 miles down to the Peninsula where
> the tools are. I'd like some nice cool posts for a change.
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "M Bianchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:57 AM
> Subject: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
>
>
> > I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on
> the terminals
> > of my traction pack. I've used this sort of label on equipment
> to indicate
> > when it is getting overly-hot, even when it isn't hot at the
> moment.
> > See McMaster.com Part Number 9246T15
> >
> > The question is: How hot will a _properly_ connected battery
> terminal get, at
> > say 250 Amps. Clearly one that is badly connected can get to
> the melting point
> > of lead.
> >
> > I'm _guessing_ that 170 degrees F might be a reasonable number,
> but if anyone
> > on the list can say something more certain, I would appreciate
> it.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > Mike Bianchi
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And I was going to post about my 2 ev which was a Mercury lynx , same as the
Jet , almost . I had 20 6v golfers in it and one time drove it 90 miles on a
charge ( 35/40MPH) , it would do 65 mpn in 2ed , Was one of the best EV's
I;ve had . The 15 8v would give the same voltage , with less weight , nice .
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: '81 Jet Electrica & PFC-30 for Sale on eBay
Yeah, he got it through "Buy Now" just minutes before I went to EBay.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: '81 Jet Electrica & PFC-30 for Sale on eBay
Only one bid. Guess the bidder bid high to get it. No other bids.
Seems
unusal. LR.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
Back in the late 70s I designed a 3 phase BLDC driver (called stepper
motor driver back then) to turn the generator of a Yamaha SS500 single
cylinder thumper street bike into a starter.
Nifty! I've always wondered if that's possible ... although your
finding that it isn't much of a practical solution doesn't surprise me
either :-) ...
As for the original question: electrical ratings for motorcycle parts
generally include a generous dollop of manufacturer optimism. The
windings are also prone to burning out under stress.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't experiment with some, but you'd be better off
scouting around wrecker's yards and picking up a few cheap used examples
I think ...
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Corbin Gentry electric bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
>I got this picture of this man at the summit of Mt. Washington on an
>electric vehicle. Has anyone owned a Corbin Gentry? Seems Corbin was into
>more electric vehicles than the VW conversions and the Sparrow.. Nice bit
>of EV history.
>Lawrence Rhodes
That piece of history is my friend, Charlie Macarthur, who walked that bike up
the last bit of Mount Washington. He is hosting this year's first NEW Mount
Washinton Alternative Vehicle Regatta on June 19, 2006 at 7:30am. You can reach
him for more info at [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
I am not sure about the particulars but, it will be very interesting. He refers
to it as a 6,000 ft. high dynamometer. Will be fun. He has also run a Sparrow
up it (I think the first production model east of the Mississippi) and a 2CV.
Will be a hoot! Not all the cool stuff happens on the left coast!
Got my 1987 S10 on Thursday, the rear brakes were stuck, beat the drums off.
Will need all new brakes, shocks and tires, but the 9" ADC looks great and the
wiring is intact. Will test it on Monday, since it is already on blocks.
Considering a newer (post-'94 S10) as an alternative to this older chassis.
Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/26/06, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just got a post from a Old friend that has a Insight ,he had a Corvette
driver ask him what he did to make it that fast. It seams the Vette Guy
had
to stir the gear box to reel One in durring a 30 to 60mph
Squirt up a steep hill.
Not that the Vette guy couldn't catch him, it's he had to more than try.
That is what we call the EV grin.. leaves the line promptly.. then Well we
could use more... Always more..
So... I would love to have a in your Face Hybrid..
Have you driven a Toyota Hybrid Highlander? 0-60 in 7.2 seconds.
Quarter-mile in 15.5 sec @ 92.2mph. Ours is a Prius-Highlander family, and
boy can you tell the difference between the two - in the Highlander, if you
floor it and there's even a hint of bump, you can hear a tire or two start
to squeak away, because it's just that close to losing traction. Of course,
it's no Goldie, but then again it seats seven and has 4WD.
jorg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NEDRA is pleased to announce two new Voltage Divisions. Effectively
immediately, we are adding two higher voltage divisions for a total of
12 in all. This means that there are more record setting opportunities
for higher voltage vehicles beginning at the Power of DC event, this
weekend at Hagerstown, Maryland. Please see the Power of DC site at
http://www.powerofdc.com for all event details.
We are seeing a major trend at the track toward higher voltages, so we
wanted to provide some additional divisions for these higher voltage
competitors. As the previously highest voltage division was designated
"A", these two new divisions will be designated "A2" and "A3"
respectively.
All the NEDRA voltage divisions are currently based on multiples of
nominal 12 volt batteries.
New NEDRA Voltage Divisions
----------------------------------
Division A3 - 349 Volts and above
Division A2 - 301 Volts - 348 Volts
Division A - 241 Volts - 300 Volts
Division B - 193 Volts - 240 Volts
Division C - 169 Volts - 192 Volts
Division D - 145 Volts - 168 Volts
Division E - 121 Volts - 144 Volts
Division F - 97 Volts - 120 Volts
Division G - 73 Volts - 96 Volts
Division H - 49 Volts - 72 Volts
Division I - 25 Volts - 48 Volts
Division J - 24 Volts and below
All NEDRA record setters and record breakers receive a pair of Oakley
Sunglasses.
See you at the races!
-Ken Trough
NEDRA Public Relations
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 4:43 AM
Subject: Mount Washington Alternative Vehicle RegattaCorbin Gentry electric
bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
> >Corbin Gentry electric bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
>
> >I got this picture of this man at the summit of Mt. Washington on an
> >electric vehicle. Has anyone owned a Corbin Gentry? Seems Corbin was
into
> >more electric vehicles than the VW conversions and the Sparrow.. Nice
bit
> >of EV history.
>
> >Lawrence Rhodes
>
>
> That piece of history is my friend, Charlie Macarthur, who walked that
bike up the last bit of Mount Washington. He is hosting this year's first
NEW Mount Washinton Alternative Vehicle Regatta on June 19, 2006 at 7:30am.
You can reach him for more info at [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
>
> I am not sure about the particulars but, it will be very interesting. He
refers to it as a 6,000 ft. high dynamometer. Will be fun. He has also run a
Sparrow up it (I think the first production model east of the Mississippi)
and a 2CV.
>
> Will be a hoot! Not all the cool stuff happens on the left coast!
> DAMN! Had I still the Rabbit I woulda drug it to MT Wash. to try it.
Bettya it could have made it, but coming DOWN would be scary! No Regen! Like
doing Pikes Peak in my Prius last year.Regenned like hell, til the battery
was STUFFED, then grind off the brakes the rest of the way!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
