EV Digest 5543
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Washout???????
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Question about NIMH patent(s)
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Washout???????
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Washout???????
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Citroen diesel-electric hybrid
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Mount Washington Alternative Vehicle RegattaCorbin Gentry electric
bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Washout???????
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Reverse Contactor
by Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Three questions (was: Announcement of new NEDRA Voltage
Divisions)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Small Brushless wheel motor idea
by "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) White Zombie and Father Time Machine racing tonight at PIR, SATURDAY!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Gadget's Triumph
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Range/Capacity Check
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Small Brushless wheel motor idea
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Range/Capacity Check
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Brief mention of EVs on TV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Reverse Contactor
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Small Brushless wheel motor idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Reverse Contactor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re:Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) unsubscribe
by Don Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re:Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Range/Capacity Check
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Small Brushless wheel motor idea
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o Comments
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) I'm posting from Power of DC
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Question concerning PHEV vs. EV
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey! Anybody at the Power of DC area up yet and looking out the window? Is it
raining there, too. Weather's been SHITTY the last few daze!!RAIN RAIN and more
rain! The EV curse? I should be getting on the way by now 9AM, if it isn't
gunna be rained out. Just copied the mail on the List. So what's up, no mention
of the rain?
So, somebody give me the good word. Not raining at Hagerstown?
Wanna Seeya there
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't forget Nilar (http://www.nilar.com/). In the neighborhood of twice as
much range using their NiMH batteries, as lead-acid, and, if you stay within
30%-90% SOC range, you could get in the hundreds of thousands of mileage on
your electric before you need to replace them.
The 24V 10Ah Nilar NiMH battery costs about $200; it will deliver peak power
of 2200W, from a battery weighing only 4.3kg (9 pounds) And it can be
charged in half an hour.
According to the open-source electric pages (
http://www.onechip.co.uk/simon/electric/battery.html), a 12V 55Ah Optima D34
costs $143.00, will deliver peak power of 8700W, from a battery weighing
19.5kg (41 pounds), and can be recharged in as little as an hour.
Now, let's say you wanted a 24V, 50Ah battery. You'd need 5 Nilars or 2
Optimas.
5 Nilars: $1000, peak power 11kW, weight 45 pounds, charge in half an
hour... OR
2 Optimas: $286, peak power 17.4kW, weight 82 pounds, charge in an hour.
So, for the same range, they're 4 times more expensive, a third less power,
and only half the weight.
Let's say instead that you had capacity in your car for 1,000 pounds (!) of
batteries. (i.e., Tango class) That'd get you 111 Nilars or 24 Optimas.
111 Nilars: $22,000, peak power 244kW, weight 999 pounds, 26.6kW-Hrs, charge
in half an hour... OR
24 Optimas: $3,432, peak power 208kW, weight 984 pounds, 15.8kW-Hrs, charge
in an hour.
Now here's the thing: the Nilars seem a lot more expensive here, but the #
cycles claimed means that they last way, way longer.
Other people mentioned NiMH's high self-discharge rate. Well, high is
relative. 1% per day may seem a lot for some applications, but if you use
your car a lot, it's not much at all. People who use an EV every day are
charging it every day.
I'd always wondered why none of the hybrid cars in the market use anything
other than NiMH. Especially when most popular consumer electronics devices
use Li-Ion or Li-Poly. I did find one very surprising thing about Li-Ion,
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Ion:
A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent
upon aging from time of manufacturing (shelf life) regardless of whether it
was charged, and not just on the number of charge/discharge cycles. This
drawback is not widely publicized.
At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion
laptop<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptop>battery that's full most of
the time at 25 degrees
Celsius <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius>, will irreversibly lose
approximately 20% capacity per year. This capacity loss begins from the time
it was manufactured, and occurs even when the battery is unused. Different
storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C, 20% at
25 °C, and 35% at 40 °C. When stored at 40% charge level, these figures are
reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.
I don't know about you, but if I had to choose between a 20% loss of
*capacity* per year, and a 1% loss of *charge* per day, I'll take the loss
of charge. Even if I used the full 26kWHrs of a 1,000-pound NiMH battery,
that's only 260WHrs per day. Even at California's 14c/kWHr electric rates,
that's a whopping 4 cents per day. [Yes, I know about CA's nighttime EV
discount that brings it down to 5c/kWHr]
Of course, the elephant in the room, that no one talks about, is charging
systems. Manufacturers like Toyota buy their batteries from suppliers, but
design their own chargers. For lead-acid, chargers are easy. For anything
else, it's a lot more complicated because it's so hard to figure out what
your state-of-charge is.
A smaller elephant-in-the-room is that almost no one will tell you what
their prices are, in small quantities. Well, the lead-acid guys will (or
they have lists of resellers that will). And maybe someone will tell you
what their price is for AA NiMH cells, or LiIon 18650s. But the larger
sizes? You have to beg and plead, unless perhaps you're the city of Denver
and you're building a fleet of EV buses. Sheesh!
As far as the whole Chevron-Texaco rights & patents situation... can we all
please dispense with the conspiracy theories? Big Oil knows very well that
the days of low-priced oil dominating the world transportation energy market
are over, and the days of high-priced oil dominating the market will never
arrive. Medium-priced oil will drive a transition, and they need to have a
foothold in whatever comes next - electric batteries, fuel cells, 85E. So
of course some of them are going to be buying battery patents. If you think
that Chevron/Texaco are blocking adoption of NiMH batteries, then you're
blind to the fact that NiMH currently dominates the field.
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble. Hope this helps. Anyone know what the
"list price" is on Cobasys batts?
jorg
On 5/16/06, Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Uncertain. Chevron-Texaco owns rights to Ovhinovski's
design, IIRC. SAFT has a NiMH product out, too.
Hope that helps in your search, though I think LiPo
will run over them way before patents end...
--- Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Does anybody know the date on the NIMH patent(s)?
> I'm curious how
> long they can tie up this technology... I don't
> remember how long
> they have exclusive rights, but I think there is a
> time limit!
>
> One of these days their patent rights are gonna
> expire and then it'll
> be open season on auto size NIMH battery packs! I
> can't wait...can we
> speed up the process?
>
> thanks
> T
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
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____
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Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
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__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Saturday:
Showers ending early, then partly cloudy by the afternoon. High 73F. Winds NNW
at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 40%.
Saturday night:
Cloudy intervals. Low 56F. Winds NNW at 5 to 10 mph.
Sunday:
Partly cloudy early. Scattered thunderstorms developing later in the day. High
71F. Winds NW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 40%.
Sunday night:
Chance of an isolated thunderstorm in the evening, then variable clouds
overnight with more showers at times. Low near 55F. Winds light and variable.
Chance of rain 40%.
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: 6/3/2006 8:51 AM
Subject: Washout???????
Hey! Anybody at the Power of DC area up yet and looking out the window?
Is it raining there, too. Weather's been SHITTY the last few daze!!RAIN
RAIN and more rain! The EV curse? I should be getting on the way by now
9AM, if it isn't gunna be rained out. Just copied the mail on the List.
So what's up, no mention of the rain?
So, somebody give me the good word. Not raining at Hagerstown?
Wanna Seeya there
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK That's the Weather Report. Am about to take off for Hagerstown, weather
or not. Anybody ELSE going?
Seeya
Bob, Tim, ya going?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: Washout???????
> Saturday:
> Showers ending early, then partly cloudy by the afternoon. High 73F. Winds
NNW at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 40%.
> Saturday night:
> Cloudy intervals. Low 56F. Winds NNW at 5 to 10 mph.
>
> Sunday:
> Partly cloudy early. Scattered thunderstorms developing later in the day.
High 71F. Winds NW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 40%.
> Sunday night:
> Chance of an isolated thunderstorm in the evening, then variable clouds
overnight with more showers at times. Low near 55F. Winds light and
variable. Chance of rain 40%.
>
> Original Message -----------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: 6/3/2006 8:51 AM
> Subject: Washout???????
>
> Hey! Anybody at the Power of DC area up yet and looking out the window?
> Is it raining there, too. Weather's been SHITTY the last few daze!!RAIN
> RAIN and more rain! The EV curse? I should be getting on the way by now
> 9AM, if it isn't gunna be rained out. Just copied the mail on the List.
> So what's up, no mention of the rain?
>
>
>
>
> So, somebody give me the good word. Not raining at Hagerstown?
>
> Wanna Seeya there
>
> Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought it might be interesting to some, there are a couple of videos
on PSA's web page about their "hybrides".
http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/en/morning.php
It says that it's possible to drive in EV mode up to 50km/h, like the Prius.
The diesel engine has a particulate filter.
It does not mention a plug-in option..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Jun 2006 at 8:47, Bob Rice wrote:
> Had I still
> the Rabbit I woulda drug it to MT Wash. to try it. Bettya it could have made
> it, but coming DOWN would be scary! No Regen!
http://www.brusa.biz/applications/e_mini_evergreen.htm
Back in 1997, Axel Krause, one of Brusa's engineers, drove his Mini-
Evergreen (very cool EV) over the Alps on one charge, thanks in large part
to regenerative braking.
The car did this trip on 10.7 kWh/100km, or 173 Wh/mile - and that's at the
wall. (Mark Hanson : sorry, if a Mini-Evergreen ever goes up for sale, I
claim first dibs. ;-)
BTW, last I heard, Axel was still running the Saft STM5-100MR nicads he used
for this trip, though they were getting somewhat tired.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's Sunny here in Virginia, so The Mountain Lightning Race
Team will be on its' way this Sat. evening with two challengers.
Doc Kennedy
On 6/3/06, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
OK That's the Weather Report. Am about to take off for Hagerstown, weather
or not. Anybody ELSE going?
Seeya
Bob, Tim, ya going?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: Washout???????
> Saturday:
> Showers ending early, then partly cloudy by the afternoon. High 73F.
Winds
NNW at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 40%.
> Saturday night:
> Cloudy intervals. Low 56F. Winds NNW at 5 to 10 mph.
>
> Sunday:
> Partly cloudy early. Scattered thunderstorms developing later in the
day.
High 71F. Winds NW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 40%.
> Sunday night:
> Chance of an isolated thunderstorm in the evening, then variable clouds
overnight with more showers at times. Low near 55F. Winds light and
variable. Chance of rain 40%.
>
> Original Message -----------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: 6/3/2006 8:51 AM
> Subject: Washout???????
>
> Hey! Anybody at the Power of DC area up yet and looking out the window?
> Is it raining there, too. Weather's been SHITTY the last few daze!!RAIN
> RAIN and more rain! The EV curse? I should be getting on the way by now
> 9AM, if it isn't gunna be rained out. Just copied the mail on the List.
> So what's up, no mention of the rain?
>
>
>
>
> So, somebody give me the good word. Not raining at Hagerstown?
>
> Wanna Seeya there
>
> Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
While crusing around the EV Album, I ran across
Andreas Sagvåg's 1986 Peugeot 205 XL (144v
DC). What intrigued me was the comment under
"Drivetrain" wherein Andreas notes: "Standard
5-speed transmission without clutch. Locked at
5th gear. Reverse contactor installed."
I honestly haven't read or heard anything about a
reverse contactor (if I did its long forgotten).
This seems to me to be a pretty nice way to avoid
some/all shifting. Could someone direct me to
some references with regards to a reverse
contactor, its installation and proper uses, advantages or disadvantages?
Thanks in advance...
Wayne White
If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us
who "can't" won't suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
New voltage divisions are very a good idea. As higher voltage packs
appear at the track, it is smart to have more divisions to keep them
from all bunching together in a single category.
Three important subject areas were not addressed in your
announcement, however.
1) What happens with the existing "A" voltage records? Will they be
re-assigned? When (if) these existing records are moved, will "second
place" records, previously set, move into their place? If folks have
the proper documentation, will records set in the past be allowed in
these new categories?
2) How will the voltage of other battery types be placed within these
divisions? The voltages in these divisions were designed for
"nominal" lead-acid voltages. The measured open-circuit voltage of
fully-charged lead-acid batteries is actually 13/12 times these
numbers. Would that be the voltage used for chemistries different
than lead-acid, or would some other formula be used?
3) Doesn't the NEDRA charter require a 30 day member comment period
before new rules go into effect? Since this new rule was just
announced, shouldn't the members have 30 days to comment before it
becomes official? To whom would members send their comments? Where
would the member comments be listed? Where would the answers to the
comments be listed?
Bill Dube'
At 05:11 AM 6/3/2006, you wrote:
NEDRA is pleased to announce two new Voltage Divisions. Effectively
immediately, we are adding two higher voltage divisions for a total
of 12 in all. This means that there are more record setting
opportunities for higher voltage vehicles beginning at the Power of
DC event, this weekend at Hagerstown, Maryland. Please see the Power
of DC site at http://www.powerofdc.com for all event details.
We are seeing a major trend at the track toward higher voltages, so
we wanted to provide some additional divisions for these higher
voltage competitors. As the previously highest voltage division was
designated "A", these two new divisions will be designated "A2" and
"A3" respectively.
All the NEDRA voltage divisions are currently based on multiples of
nominal 12 volt batteries.
New NEDRA Voltage Divisions
----------------------------------
Division A3 - 349 Volts and above
Division A2 - 301 Volts - 348 Volts
Division A - 241 Volts - 300 Volts
Division B - 193 Volts - 240 Volts
Division C - 169 Volts - 192 Volts
Division D - 145 Volts - 168 Volts
Division E - 121 Volts - 144 Volts
Division F - 97 Volts - 120 Volts
Division G - 73 Volts - 96 Volts
Division H - 49 Volts - 72 Volts
Division I - 25 Volts - 48 Volts
Division J - 24 Volts and below
All NEDRA record setters and record breakers receive a pair of
Oakley Sunglasses.
See you at the races!
-Ken Trough
NEDRA Public Relations
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would imagine that an in-wheel motor would wear out faster than on
attached to a belt or chain drive. Anyone have experience with comparing
motor bearing wear for direct drive versus belt / chain drive?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Finally, team Plasma Boy will hit the track with the most powerful
version of White Zombie ever. In a note to friend John Bryan I had written:
Man, oh man....this weather thing is getting me down! It 'was'
forecast that Friday was to be rainy all day and night, so we weren't
thinking of racing. My new tires sponsor had a hard time getting the
drag radials shipped here, but I had told them I 'really' needed them
by Thursday, just in case holes of dry weather opened up on
Friday......guess what? Friday dried up midday, and by the time the
gates opened at PIR, it was sunny and 73 degrees! Yup, and the damn
tires were in south Salem, Oregon (50+ miles from Portland) where one
of the tire guys gleefully called me at 5 PM or so to tell me they'd
have the tires in Portland......SATURDAY morning grrrrrr! Soooo, we
just sat here and watched another racing opportunity go by right in
front of us :-( The weather forecasting dudes all had to admit their
forecast was bogus for Friday.
Next up...Saturday is 'supposed' to be dry and sunny all day, but rain
is expected to hit the metro area between 6 pm and midnight....nice
spread, huh? I'm going to go have the tires mounted, balanced, and put
on the car in the morning just in case we go for it and try to race
Saturday late afternoon and into the night. Gates open at 5 pm, so
even if the rain hits at 9, we'll at least get it on the track for 2
or 3 runs.
Fast forward to the present, Saturday afternoon at 12:50....Tim and I
just returned from getting the new improved versions of the sticky BF
Goodrich 'G Force Drag Radials' mounted up on the Zombie's rims. We also
fixed a bead leak on the left front tire and had all four tires
spun-balanced. All of the car's past vibration problems have been
fixed, and now with the tires all balanced up and brand new rubber in
back, WZ is turbine-smooth at all speeds :-) We'll probably keep it
conservative tonight and run with the battery pack limited at 800 amps
just to see what we get. Tim and I are convinced the car is stronger at
800 amps and the 360V pack and new taller 4:11 ratio, than it was with a
348V pack, 1000 amps, and the 4:57 ratio. If we run low 12's with just
800 amps, that will be very exciting, and maybe, just maybe, it might
even crack the 11's at this lower current setting.
Tim Humphrey wrote:
It's not that bad John;
Power of DC doesn't happen until Sunday this year. So you've got Saturday Nite.
Good Luck! See if you can give Matt a challenging target.
--
Stay Charged!
Here we go then, tonight's the night! PIR is a little vague about the
exact time they'll open the gates for late night drag racing, it may be
5, it may be 6, it might be early because of the threat of rain. In any
EVent, we'll be in line at the gate by 4:30 this afternoon.
Father Time is on his way south from Burien, Washington, and his drag
bike is already here in Portland as are his racing leathers.
It 'may' rain tonight, but hopefully, it will hold off until the bike
and our car have got a few passes in.
We're again inviting all our friends to show up and have some fun with
the bearded one (wait, is that me, Tim, or FT?) and Tim and I for a
little electrically derived tire smoke and speed! Otmar is joining us
tonight, too (he's not racing his car, but at least he'll be on hand if
we need some expert help with Zilla programming)!
See Ya.......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Homestead used to build 550's. If I recall, he did a Ghia, followed w/ 3 of
these conversions.
http://www.answers.com/topic/porsche-550-spyder-replica-electric-conversion
http://www.electrictransport.net/shop/item.asp?itemid=41
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel J Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 8:08 PM
Subject: Gadget's Triumph
> I'd love to see a Porsche Speedster electric conversion kit, ('course
> they just us either Tube Frames or Bug Pans). Also, would the
> mechanicals work pretty easily on a Neon, since the PT is based on the
> Neon?
>
> If EVs are fun, the word will get out.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It sounds like component costs have come down? That's good to know. (I've
spent around $5K on my toy EV projects, I'd guess.)
As a starting point, I recall the old VW beetles were used in the past. As a
starting point, I have a treat '66 sitting in the garage... and maybe use a
(tube frame) buggy. If I recall, it's about 1600 lbs (??) for the Beetle, so
maybe 500 lbs of batts would do the trick? 20 seconds to 60MPH is not much
slower than the Beetle sports.
Can you suggest a kit, reliable motor, controller and/or voltage? For low
cost, I assume DC would be best?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: Range/Capacity Check
> Dick Finley's "Red Beastie", a Toyota XTraCab with 85 mph
> top speed, 0-60 mph in 18-20 seconds, and 120 miles range,
> could probably be duplicated for around $10k today, less if
> acceleration would be sacrificed. This truck probably had a
> low battery cost, especially if the typical commute of the
> one using it was less than 60 miles.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume you are referring to hub motors? From what I've read from all the
groups, no one has enough miles on them to have worn out the bearings.
Obviously it could happen, as it also supports the vehicle weight. The
Chinese made motors power the hub directly. The German (Heinzmann) motors
have internal gears and (most notably the nylon type) have worn out on some
units.
Advantages are fewer wearing parts and (if working properly) an elimination
of contaminants from wear points. The main disadvantage is limited low RPM
power and top speed limited by wheel size.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: Small Brushless wheel motor idea
> I would imagine that an in-wheel motor would wear out faster than on
> attached to a belt or chain drive. Anyone have experience with comparing
> motor bearing wear for direct drive versus belt / chain drive?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An EV is a STATEMENT, if nothing else - a chance to say "screw the oil
companies, and to hell w/ the Middle East and all of it's problems too -
and, yes, you can throw concern for the environment in there as well, and
probably another 1/2 dozen items" - does anyone believe that Iran could have
purchased nuclear power plants from Russia WITHOUT oil revenue???
Keep up the conversions!!!
Mike
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Range/Capacity Check
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:49:28 -0400
On 31 May 2006 at 15:00, MIKE & PAULA WILLMON wrote:
> But if I want to prove that just doing a
> conversion will pay for itself in a reasonable time like 5 years, I'm
affraid I
> failed on this attempt.
Well, the way I see it is, there are things that are just intrinsically
worth doing. IMO, there are even things that are intrinsically worth
having, if that makes any kind of sense. I don't have to respond to some
grim-faced army of institutional investors, thank goodness, nor do I need
to
impress anyone with my financial acumen. Not everything I do has to pay
for
itself. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Was just now catching "The Henry Rollins Show" and he dedicated the end credits
to Honda Motor Company and Alexandra Paul, the former for being the first major
car company to introduce a hybrid, the latter for protesting the crushing of
EV1's as documented in "Who Killed the Electric Car?" Well, it may be basic
cable (actually, DirecTV), but it's nice to see WKtEC get mentioned on a larger
format than the EVDL.
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Simply, it's two SPDT contactors wired together so that the current flow
through the motor field can be reversed, thus reversing the direction.
Wayne wrote:
Hello,
While crusing around the EV Album, I ran across Andreas Sagvåg's 1986
Peugeot 205 XL (144v DC). What intrigued me was the comment under
"Drivetrain" wherein Andreas notes: "Standard 5-speed transmission
without clutch. Locked at 5th gear. Reverse contactor installed."
I honestly haven't read or heard anything about a reverse contactor
(if I did its long forgotten).
This seems to me to be a pretty nice way to avoid some/all shifting.
Could someone direct me to some references with regards to a reverse
contactor, its installation and proper uses, advantages or disadvantages?
Thanks in advance...
Wayne White
If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us who "can't" won't
suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
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Jonathan Smith wrote:
> I would imagine that an in-wheel motor would wear out faster than on
> attached to a belt or chain drive. Anyone have experience with comparing
> motor bearing wear for direct drive versus belt / chain drive?
When properly designed and maintained, wheel bearing last the life of a
car. It shouldn't make any difference to the bearings if there is a
motor in the wheel or not.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Wayne wrote:
> I honestly haven't read or heard anything about a
> reverse contactor (if I did its long forgotten).
All purpose-built EVs eliminate the transmission, and reverse the motor
electrically to get reverse. This can be done with as little as a
double-pole, double-throw switch, relay, or contactor. These are far
cheaper than a transmission with a reverse gear.
Most EV conversions already have a transmission (the one that came with
the vehicle). So, people just use it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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After a long week of racing great news,we took over the NHRA Summit Super Pro
points lead. The final round 2am. Again my .00 reaction times played a huge
factor, but the CE also did its job. Of the 5 round wins I redialed the car 4
times. The motor temp started at 113F and ended the night at 116F.
The batteries started at 121F and ended at 128F. The track temp. started at
151F and ended at 97F. It was a warm night to race in a double layer race suit
siting 4 inches off the track. I am sure I lost at least 5lbs. Of the 5 round
wins 4 cars were quicker than 8.5 seconds. 2 racers broke out by .003. Last
night was huge in that the points leader lost in the 1st round and I went all
the way. I now have at least a 4 round advantage in 1st place. 3rd 4th and 5th
places fell further behind as I took them out early. Again these are the
Division champs at my track for the last 3 years so I now have more points then
any
other NHRA div track. HUGE EV PRESS.
Dennis Berube
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Don Cook
707 539 5800
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---------------------------------
Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
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Dennis,
Congratulations!!!
With the cost of gas in the news everyday I would
think
the national news should be doing a story on this and
get even more EV press.
Keep up the good work!
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> After a long week of racing great news,we took over
> the NHRA Summit Super Pro
> points lead. The final round 2am. Again my .00
> reaction times played a huge
> factor, but the CE also did its job. Of the 5 round
> wins I redialed the car 4
> times. The motor temp started at 113F and ended the
> night at 116F.
> The batteries started at 121F and ended at 128F. The
> track temp. started at
> 151F and ended at 97F. It was a warm night to race
> in a double layer race suit
> siting 4 inches off the track. I am sure I lost at
> least 5lbs. Of the 5 round
> wins 4 cars were quicker than 8.5 seconds. 2 racers
> broke out by .003. Last
> night was huge in that the points leader lost in the
> 1st round and I went all
> the way. I now have at least a 4 round advantage in
> 1st place. 3rd 4th and 5th
> places fell further behind as I took them out early.
> Again these are the
> Division champs at my track for the last 3 years so
> I now have more points then any
> other NHRA div track. HUGE EV PRESS.
>
>
> Dennis Berube
>
>
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Actually the way Lee suggests will work well, but the
original design will work too if the PNP transistors
(or P-channel FETs) get a series resistance between the
collector (drain) and the row connection.
Without the resistor, the row will light dimly but the
column will stay dark - due to the FETs creating a fixed
voltage drop (disregarding the LED internal resistance)
so the parallel LEDs in the same column cannot get any
current through their "background" resistor.
Not the entire array will light, though with the series
resistors the array may light a little, but more dimly
than the row and column selected.
I wonder if there is an interest in "kits" built of this
10x10 display for EVs.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:04 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
Behalf Of Lee Hart
>> 3. To dimly light a vertical row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
>> Add a resistor across the emitter-collector leads of each transistor.
>> It provides a small background current to all LEDs in the selected
>> vertical column.
>>
>> 4. To dimly light a horizontal row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
>> Add a resistor from each output to ground of the LM3914 that is
>> measuring current. It likewise provides a small background current
>> to all LEDs in the selected horizontal row.
Tim Humphrey wrote:
> But you can't do both right?
> It would result in the entire array dimly lit?
Hmm... yes, it would. But you could fix this with a couple more parts.
Build some kind of simple oscillator; 555 timer, schmitt-trigger gate, a
couple of CMOS gates, etc. Use its output to alternately pull the pullup
resistors high, and then the pulldown resistors low. Make the oscillator
frequency high enough so the vertical/horizontal lines of dim LEDs don't
flicker.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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For my 3rd EV I am trying - http://www.e-volks.com/about.html
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> It sounds like component costs have come down? That's good to
know. (I've
> spent around $5K on my toy EV projects, I'd guess.)
>
> As a starting point, I recall the old VW beetles were used in the
past. As a
> starting point, I have a treat '66 sitting in the garage... and
maybe use a
> (tube frame) buggy. If I recall, it's about 1600 lbs (??) for the
Beetle, so
> maybe 500 lbs of batts would do the trick? 20 seconds to 60MPH is
not much
> slower than the Beetle sports.
>
> Can you suggest a kit, reliable motor, controller and/or voltage?
For low
> cost, I assume DC would be best?
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How much space do most people have available for a display?
Danny
Cor van de Water wrote:
I wonder if there is an interest in "kits" built of this
10x10 display for EVs.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
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Started to hear a bearing noise in my hub motor .... tore it down
and cleaned and re packed the bearings ... seems okay now ...
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> I assume you are referring to hub motors? From what I've read from
all the
> groups, no one has enough miles on them to have worn out the
bearings.
> Obviously it could happen, as it also supports the vehicle weight.
The
> Chinese made motors power the hub directly. The German (Heinzmann)
motors
> have internal gears and (most notably the nylon type) have worn
out on some
> units.
>
> Advantages are fewer wearing parts and (if working properly) an
elimination
> of contaminants from wear points. The main disadvantage is limited
low RPM
> power and top speed limited by wheel size.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "evlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 7:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Small Brushless wheel motor idea
>
>
> > I would imagine that an in-wheel motor would wear out faster
than on
> > attached to a belt or chain drive. Anyone have experience with
comparing
> > motor bearing wear for direct drive versus belt / chain drive?
>
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Many people living on islands in the Pacific use rain water catchment
for drinking water. Compared to ground water there are no minerals
in it, however you must be sure to dump the first 5 gallons or so, to
not dump the dust, bugs, and leaves that accumulate on the roof
between rain storms. There are automated devices for people that
need lots of water, (whole households), but for a hundred gallons or
so you can do this manually. Bottled water is cheap if you have a
Wallmart close by, and only need a few gallons per year. For
comparison if tap water is 100 then rain water is about 0.2,
distilled from 0.5 to 0.1, and de-ionized, (nuclear grade) is 0.0.
When I was in the U.S. Navy aboard the USS Enterprise we tested some
water for natives on a few of the islands we stopped at. It is
surprising how good rain water is as long as that first five or so
gallons are dumped.
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At 1:27, the sun is out, and the EVs are lined up in the staging area.
A short break in the action to clean the track. Can't wait to see Joule
Injected and the others go down the strip.
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I have been reading (only a little though) about the PHEV conversions. My
understanding is that they are limited to about 34 MPH / 40 miles in all
electric mode. Has anyone attempted to put a secondary (larger) electric motor
on one of these cars?
A proposed concept is leave the Prius as-is on the front end and swap out the
rear axle for a powered (dual motor) axle. Much like some of the drag cars,
although I think you would only need something like two 7" motors. Why not
just work on the rear of the car. Run a complete seperate drive system,
motors, controller, battery pack, the works all on the rear wheels. My
understanding is that the new Lexus Hybrids have a powered rear axle. Of
course, people on the list have also built powered axle cars. I think at least
one of the Solectra trucks also had a powered rear axle. You could even take
the back half off an old VW and mesh it with the hybrid. If that doesn't work,
or if there is not enough space in the rear, build a small electric pusher
trailer. I am not clear on the registration issues of having a powered trailer
pushing your car, but I know several of you have built them and use them. That
could work for any car, but would be great pushing a Prius
because it is already designed to function without the gas engine running.
Just some concepts I have been thinking about. I bet others have the same
thoughts.
I have been hearing about hub (in wheel) motors as well. I am not familiar
with anyone actually doing this. I read about it many years ago, but it sounds
like the technology is available. Can anyone steer me to some websites showing
what has been done. Wouldn't two hub motors on the rear of a Prius accomplish
what I am talking about. Probably cost a small fortune though ... A 60 MPH /
40 mile range capable EV ....
Ideas anyone?
Steve Powers
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
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