EV Digest 5562
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Fiero - Weights and airbags
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: new batteries!
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Motor sizing.
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re:Air Bags
by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Compound & Sep Ex
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Compound & Sep Ex
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: City Range
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Suitable weights...in training
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: How hard is it to make batteries
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor sizing.
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Blown Controller. - resend didnt appear!
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Who Killed The Electric Car?
by "Tim Ireland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor sizing.
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Compound & Sep Ex
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: new batteries! -Me Too!
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Compound & Sep Ex
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: PHEV - speed?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Need help with wiring BMC® 24 Volt 600 Watt motor conroller
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) TdS Report #47: H2Prius: Another eVermont Car
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
More info below
From: David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: EVDL <[email protected]>
Subject: Fiero - Weights and airbags
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 19:43:43 -0700 (PDT)
Thanks to Peter for the following info.:
'V6 engine from a fiero with no intake / accessories / fluids on / in
it
weighs 257 lbs. Exaust system (muffler, cat, pipes, headers) weighs
47.75
lbs.'
That's heavier than I thought (of course half my exhaust system was
rotted away:-). Does that include the million gallons of antifreeze in
the tubes/hoses that run under the car? I swear it could have filled a
second container with what was left after draining the system and
removing the engine :-)
No that's just the engine - everything I could take off in the car (pulled
it out the top.) no valve covers, timing chain cover, water pump, intake
manafold, exaust manafold, ect (Got all that stuff in a pile and will weigh
and update my spread sheet once I get to "that" pile.) The service manual
says there is 13.8 qts in the system which if I did my math right is 3.45
gal => 27.6 lbs, 1 gal engine oil @ 7.3 lbs/gal => 7.3lbs, 10.3 gal gas @ 6
lbs/gal => 61.8lbs. All these numbers are for a 85 V6 have the numbers for
other years if you need them.
'So far I have 7.25 lbs of just dirt and rust that has fallen off the
car in
the process of dismantling it.'
I think I'm about even with you there. Didn't know whether to count
the rotted insulation as dirt or not, though, and I included the pine
straw and acorns :-)
I forgot the mouse nests... Just wanted them out of the car :)
Later,
Wire
Mike wrote:
'This brings up a question. One of the issues I've been thinking about
with my fiero conversion is saftey systems. I am planning to put in
racing harnesses, but the Fiero never got air bags. Has anyone
retrofitted newer stearing wheels with airbags, along with the
required sensors, into an older car?'
I would think any system that used discrete electronic components would
be feasible to transplant (i.e. if it didn't go through the car's main
computer), *but* a lot more goes into the setup of an airbag system
than merely having all the parts, like the distances between the wheel
and the driver, the steering wheel angles, etc. They position it
carefully and tune the pressure that is generated and the rate at which
it is generated to the particular car to maximize effectiveness and
minimize the chance of hurting you when it goes off. I would hesitate
to transplant one into a car that didn't have one in the first place.
Dave Brandt
David Brandt
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--- Begin Message ---
Realy.... So where do you live :P
Can't wait to here the outcome!
later,
Wire
From: David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: EVDL <[email protected]>
Subject: new batteries!
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 19:40:51 -0700 (PDT)
I'm ecstatic! Today, I arrived home to 22 individually boxed PS-121000
batteries stacked neatly in my garage. Yesterday I got the correct
coil economizers and hooked them up (by the way, the ones they sent
earlier were for 24V coils. The correct ones can take a logic input
but work just fine without it). It's getting harder to say "I'm
waiting on a part..." when asked when I'll be done. It won't be long
now! (Just battery racks, charger, regs, wiring, heater relays, A/C
motor mounting, and an interior rebuild to go. Oh, yes, and a front
brake upgrade, custom springs, drop the engine cradle to work on the
clutch, and replace the cradle bushings..............) OK, maybe it
isn't that close, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel (but
what's that choo-choo sound?)
Dave Brandt
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--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have tips on how to size the motor for a car? I am working on a
Fiero mid mount engine. my S.W.A.G. for final weight is between 3400 and
4000 lbs. Looking at other Fieros its almost all 9.1" except a 8" and a
unknown. When I am done I would like pep (not drag race levels but some
fun) in the car but not at a huge sacrafice of effeciancey.
Also what brands would people recomend and which ones should I avoid. So far
I have looked at
Netgain
warp 8
warp 9
(whats the differance between advanced timing and no advanced timeing)
Advanced DC
203-06-4001 8"
FB1-4001 9" (used the most by fiero converters)
Kostov
ET 12/144/50 9" 13.5" long 16hp (half the price of any other 9" motor)
Any other manufactures / suppliers I should look at?
Also plan to call around to the local motor rewind shop to see if they have
any DC traction motors for sale but not hold my breath on it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree.. see this site: http://www.airbagonoff.com/ - Also check out the
KARMANN GHILECTRIC write up on seat belts/airbags in
http://dm3electrics.com/
Jimmy
> > From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> If you are putting in a racing harness (properly mounted) you are far
> safer
> than using airbags... assuming the frame and other members can handle
> the
> crush of all that extra EV weight. IMHO, airbags are mostly a fix for
> people
> who don't want to be properly strapped in, in a car that isn't properly
> designed for a full crash. Basically, a way to make any design
> reasonably
> safe at 55 MPH, combined with single point (passive) shoulder harnesses.
>
> One thing to consider in the Fiero is where your batts are placed and
> how
> they are tied down. An air bag is not going to help you much if 300 lbs
> of
> batts come flying up with megatons of force. <g> Many modern cars have
> the
> engine mounted so it'll break loose and go under the car in a severe
> front
> impact. Front mounted batts may do the same... but rear batts are a
> question
> mark. If their COG is such that they'll be forced under the passenger
> compartment, then they may be safe. Those inside the compartment are
> safe...
> so long as there is no collision. Afterwards, it's a question mark.
>
> You might also wish to consider rear end collisions... and beef up the
> springs/shocks/bumper for this sort of impact. A reclining seat offers
> great
> protection... as it's usually designed to fold back in a rear collision.
> The
> car will be totaled, but the driver can usually walk away.
>
> > From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Air Bags: was Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
>
> > This brings up a question. One of the issues I've been thinking about
> > with my fiero conversion is saftey systems. I am planning to put in
> > racing harnesses, but the Fiero never got air bags. Has anyone
> > retrofitted newer stearing wheels with airbags, along with the
> > required sensors, into an older car?
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--- Begin Message ---
>
> I take exception to this comment becasue I am not an EE and
Althought the LED is an alternative, it it difficult to claim it is a
step up from a 2 needle movement. Lee has got the smarts, the
experiance and most importantly the attitude to freely help us out.
(ps, he is the engineer :-) ) What I was suggesting was the minimum
electronics needed to be at least as good as the dual needle and what
I thought was the only way to achieve it, abstract the display for the
data collection and use it to display more than one thing or more than
one way.
>
> I also found this thread very informative!
>
Did you see Lee's reply to my post? He agreed with me, but felt I
needed to add some emoticons so the in-gin-ears didn't take offense ;)
--- End Message ---
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No.
The compound wound motor has series fields that the sepex motor does not
have.
If you do not use the series windings, they function the same.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:04 PM
Subject: Compound & Sep Ex
> Is a compound wound motor the same as a separately exited motor?
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Nope -
A separately excited motor has one field winding and the armature, each
independently controlled. There should be 4 connections, two to the
field and two to the armature.
And as I understand it, a compound wound has (at least?) 2 fields and
the armature. The main field winding is independent with its own
terminals, just like the sep-ex version. The second field is wired with
the armature, so there is always a small field present whenever the
armatures in energized.
Generators from old cars (before they switched to alternators) and
Elec-Trak drive motors are both compound wound.
Jack Knopf wrote:
Is a compound wound motor the same as a separately exited motor?
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike -
Thanks for the info on range. As a new EVer (I'm in the process of
building my first), it confused the ever livin' [EMAIL PROTECTED] out of me - I see the
light now! Thanks!!!
Mike!
From: "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: City Range
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 14:10:17 -0400
Ive been gettin 40 miles regularly with a little to spare with this 95
solectria force with 144 v lead acid..That is driving like a grandpa and a
few ice drivers giving me the one finger solute to which I reply with an ev
grin and a wave. Mike young
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark E. Hanson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: City Range
Hi, I get 30 miles
range in all my vehicles I've had. People who claim much more than that
are usually smoking "Lefty Lucky's". Over the years I've had a
Commuta-Car, Electro-Metro
Geo Tracker, Bombardier and now a Cushman all using flooded golf
cart batteries. Best range is achieved at the 40% battery weight ratio
and
better range can be had of course with Ni-Cads, NiMh's or Li-Ion's if
you
have deep pockets.
Best Regards,
Mark
Date:
Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:23:31 -0500
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
[email protected] Subject: City Range (Was Conversion on eBay)
Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo!
Briefcase ]
At 15MPH you can get a long way :) But seriously, how much range are
people getting for city driving from their EVs? I always hear the highway
range quoted. What are people getting in the city? -Mike On
6/8/06, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Claims to have a
range of up to 150 Miles with 20 Trojans 125s. Now - I > don't know if
that would even be possible in theory (other then rolling > down hill),
but the buyer sure will be in for quite a suprise :( On the > other
hand: He is asking 23,000 with 'Reserve Not Met' - I doubt he/she >
will be able to sell the truck for that price anyway. > > Michaela > >
> > > Is the seller on the list? > > > >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4647644891
> > > > A little rich for me, but I certainly like the paint scheme on
that > > expansion > > box for battery space - a little galaxy sitting
in the bed!
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Suitable weights...
> Yep... or look around for weigh stations. There's one near our house that
is
> owned by Kingsford. It's locked up at night, but the meter is visible
> through the glass. (There's another at the gravel company.)
>
> They may not be 100% accurate weighing in such a light load, but close
> enough.
> Hi EVerybody;
An interisting sidenote on getting aweigh. When I worked for Conrail, I
was cause to spot RR cars of crushed stone@ 130 tons per car. We found that
the Quarry was pulling a fast one on us, as the car was "only" a 100 ton
capacity car. Hell, what's a few tons among friends?When I pulled the car
off the scale I hopped on myself and asked the guy to weigh me up. Damn it
was right on the money, about 250lbs. I didn't think it would even 'Feel" me
step on. Especially after driving a 130 ton lokie and 130 ton RR car across
it. Typical RR setup; Ramshackle bldg and scale!
My two RR cars worth
Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Long" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Suitable weights...
>
>
> > If there's a place near you that sells gravel or buys scrap iron they
> > weigh you on the way in and on the way out. I'm sure if you asked
> > nicely ($) they'd weigh your vehicle or a truck filled with all your
> > discarded bits.
>
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Agreed, in toto...
Wayne W.
At 01:24 PM 6/7/2006, you wrote:
>> All were masterpieces of workmanship.
Joe Vitek wrote:
> Something that is sadly lacking in the current, younger, American culture.
> What happened to us...
I do a lot of work in schools, with 4th-6th graders
(www.bestoutreach.com). We help them to build EVs; (see, we're back
on-topic :-)
I find that kids haven't changed. They are still marvelously energetic,
curious, creative, and adaptive. However, the environment we have placed
them in has changed. It don't reward energy; it encourages passive
entertainment (watch TV, play computer games). Curiosity and
experimentation are frowned upon; kids are expected to accept answers
from authority without question, and conform. Violence, selfishness, and
greed are everywhere in the media, leading them to believe that this is
what constitutes normal behavior for adults.
So, kids conform! They become just the sort of people that can survive
in the environment.
So why don't we (Americans) build things any more? It seems to me that
today's adults have climbed the ladder of technology, and then sawed off
all the rungs below them! Most homes don't have any tools, so kids can't
learn to use them by building a tree house or fixing a flat on their
bike tire. Parents just say, "Don't climb trees" or "I'll buy you a new
bike". Most construction toys are so simplistic and formulaic that you
can't build anything truly useful or interesting (generic Lego bricks
are replaced by special one-use-only parts that just build one thing;
101-in-1 electronic kits for 101 stupid projects, and don't teach
anything about soldering, reading part values, how circuits work, etc.)
To become a skilled scientist, engineer, technician, or mechanic; you
have to start practicing at an early age. Kids are naturally born to do
this. They learn by experimenting (adults call it "fooling around").
They practice constantly (adults call it "play"). They learn to build
things by first taking them apart (adults call it "breaking your toys").
Their first attempts to make things are pitiful -- but if they're
encouraged, and you show them how to do better, they'll improve.
When you're at the bottom rung of a technology, you have to start
simple. In effect, you have to build the ladder yourself, rung by rung!
Start by disassembling (wrecking) things, just to see how they're built.
Disassemble a bike, or a dead battery charger. You'll learn to use tools
in the process.
Re-assemble the parts into very simple circuits, and get them to work.
Use the bike parts to build a go-kart, or get a simplified version of
that battery charger working.
Learn to measure things for yourself. If you can't measure it, you don't
really know what you're doing. Use that battery charger you built to
test some old batteries; learn how they REALLY work (as opposed to all
the old wive's tales and misinformation on the internet).
Something like the Brueggemann meter is an ideal first project. It's
simple, and lends itself to extensive customization and improvement!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us who "can't" won't
suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
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If Edison could do it 100 years ago, so can we.
I'm a fan of nicad and nimh. But Nife would do in a pinch.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Someone asked this question not to long ago.
> I looked into the makeing of lithium ion, like the thundersky batteries.
>
> basically
> 2 chemicals are purchased as powder.
> each chemical is mixed with a binder, new binders are water based
> solving lots of issues.
> anode material spread on one plate, cathod material spread on other.
> the plates are run thru rollers and dried.
> high amp lower energy density use etched plates, lower amp higher
> energy density use fine mesh screen.
> dried plates are assembled in an inert gas atmosphere with the seperator
> into the case with the plates connected to the posts. This is a
> sandblaster like cabinet pressure filled with argon.
> The battery is sealed except for the fill tube and a vacuum is drawn
> while the battery sits on a scale.
> The vacuum pump is shut off and the seal is verified then a valve is
> openened allowing it to draw in electorlyte until full.
> Oxygen with the electrolyte is dangerous and or will cause a quick
> contamination of the anode surfaces and the litium salts.
>
>
> Then the battery must recieve a commisioning charge. This is a special
> charge and I don't know this info yet.
> My interest switched to lipoly at this point.
> Nicad can be made the same way, i hear, but no oxgen free environment
> requirement.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 9, 2006, at 10:04 PM, Peter Shabino wrote:
Does anyone have tips on how to size the motor for a car? I am working
on a Fiero mid mount engine. my S.W.A.G. for final weight is between
3400 and 4000 lbs. Looking at other Fieros its almost all 9.1" except
a 8" and a unknown. When I am done I would like pep (not drag race
levels but some fun) in the car but not at a huge sacrafice of
effeciancey.
Also what brands would people recomend and which ones should I avoid.
So far I have looked at
Netgain
warp 8
warp 9
(whats the differance between advanced timing and no advanced
timeing)
"Timing" is where you rotate the brush ring in relation to the field
coils. The motor will run at greatest efficiency with the brushes at
neutral timing.
However, if you have a motor without compensating windings/interpoles
(ADC, Warp, most modern series-wound motors) the brushes will arc when
the motor is under heavy amp draw and high voltage (being driven beyond
the nameplate specs, like many of us do). To fix this you want to
advance the timing. It hurts efficiency a little bit but improves
top-end performance and helps prevent damage to your motor.
The damage can be severe - check out these pages:
<http://alan.batie.org/ev.html>
The brush ring is generally bolted to the rear end bell, which is
bolted to the outer case of the motor. To advance the timing, you
unbolt the end bell and rotate it to the other set of holes pre-drilled
in the case by the manufacturer.
Some motors (notably the 8" one ADC built for the Corbin Sparrow, part
number 203-06-4004) don't have the extra holes and you need to drill
them yourself, as Otmar did for his 914:
<http://evcl.com/914/adaptor.html>
Advanced DC
203-06-4001 8"
FB1-4001 9" (used the most by fiero converters)
Kostov
ET 12/144/50 9" 13.5" long 16hp (half the price of any other 9"
motor)
I don't know about all of them, but at least some Kostovs have
interpoles and don't need their timing adjusted. The drawback is that
the motor is larger and heavier than one without interpoles (e.g. the
9" Kostov isn't as powerful as the 9" ADC/Warp because some of the
diameter is taken up by interpole windings that don't produce torque).
However, personally I'd take that disadvantage to get rid of the hassle
of adjusting your timing. Interpoles compensate over the entire
operating range, while a motor with fixed timing is only "perfect" at a
specific point.
OTOH, Kostovs have not been as reliable or as well supported as the
ADC/Warp motors. Their comms are smaller and more fragile, and they
are made in Russia.
Any other manufactures / suppliers I should look at?
Jim Husted at Hi-Torque Electric in Redmond, Oregon.
<http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/> He can customize a motor for you.
He put an adjustable brush ring on my Sparrow motor, shortened a 9" ADC
to make it fit in Jay Donnaway's Karmann Ghia
<http://karmanneclectric.blogspot.com/>, and built the Siamese Twin in
White Zombie, among other feats. Last I knew he had a stock of used
ADC 9" motors he was turning into customized EV powerplants for anyone
who asks. And once Jim's done with it, it's better than new.
Also plan to call around to the local motor rewind shop to see if they
have any DC traction motors for sale but not hold my breath on it.
Try asking for ADC or Warfield 8" or 9" series-wound DC motors instead.
And they are fairly likely to have some lower-voltage forklift motors
too.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
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I am trying to find some example schematics (circuits) for the field control
part of a SEPEX motor controller.
My Citroen Berlingo had a brush open circuit event which caused a huge
voltage/current spike into the field controller of my EV. This blew the
protection diodes and the IGBT device and ripped through a couple of PCB
tracks which were vapourised.
I have rebuilt the board where the tracks were blown and replaced the
damaged parts and measured a whole heap of other components which all seem
o.k.
On re-assembly I have armature voltage varying with the "gas" peddle but
the
field voltage is just not there. The EV makes an attempt to move but I
guess
that's just residual magnetism in the motor.
I am unable to get a schematic of the controller from SAGEM or PSA (Citroen
Peugeot) but some typical circuits would be helpful - unless anyone is able
to access any actual diagrams from PSA and would share with me.
It seems like there is a small "modulation" transformer in the gate
circuit
of the field output stage but this appears o.k too
Any help would be appreciated
John
PS please no-one suggest I go to the service agents - that's not the idea
behind EV's as a hobby !
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm with Claudio... This is a movie I want to see!
Cheers,
Tim (South Australia)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Claudio Natoli
Sent: Thursday, 8 June 2006 10:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Who Killed The Electric Car?
Hi Roderick,
> I just spoke with the producers and it will
> be released in the UK.
Cool -- any word on whether it'll reach those of us in the colonies?
(ie. Australia :-)
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
What a well thought out and comprehensive answer! Doug's post is a
perfect example as to why many consider this EVDL the world's greatest
EV info source!
See Ya....John Wayland
Doug Weathers wrote:
"Timing" is where you rotate the brush ring in relation to the field
coils. The motor will run at greatest efficiency with the brushes at
neutral timing....Jim Husted at Hi-Torque Electric in Redmond,
Oregon. <http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/> He can customize a motor
for you....Try asking for ADC or Warfield 8" or 9" series-wound DC
motors instead. And they are fairly likely to have some lower-voltage
forklift motors too.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Knopf wrote:
>
> Is a compound wound motor the same as a separately exited motor?
No; one describes how the motor is built; the other describes how the
motor is powered.
A compound wound motor has two fields; one series, and one shunt.
A separately excited motor is when you power the field separately from
the armature (two separate controllers). Thus, it is how you power it,
not how the fields are wound.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm ecstatic! Today, I arrived home to 22 individually boxed PS-121000
> batteries stacked neatly in my garage. ... It won't be long
> now! (Just battery racks, charger, regs, wiring, ...) OK, maybe it
> isn't that close, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel (but
> what's that choo-choo sound?)
I know how you feel. I too arrived home on Thursday to find 20 new TE35s
sittting in my driveway. I got them in out of the sun and then went to work
replacing the Sonnenschein DF6V-160s in my Soleq EVCort. I had been holding my
breath 'cause I special ordered them, prepaid them all off of the spec sheet. I
can breath now. They fit perfectly! Even the posts are in the same position so
the cables fit just right.
Well it took 2 evenings but last night I finished it off and set the charger to
do it's thing. Before I turned it on I had checked the voltage of all of the
battteries and they were all very close to 6.41 volts. It took about 5 hours
but I brought them up to 2.37 volts per cell @ 86 degrees F.
This morning I checked the voltages again after the full absorption and the
resting and they where all about 6.51 (+/-.01) per battery. Took it out on the
street for a 10 mile easy cruise (all under 40mph) Boy! That was nice. I got
that EV grin going from ear to ear. Much better than the tired Gell Cells.
I checked the voltage after letting it sit for 30 minutes and they were all
about 6.39 volts. Threw it back on the charger and it is just about to hit the
transition point as I write this.
So, I do have a question in regards to new battery pack break in. Is there a
suggested method in order to get better life, performance, etc. Bob Rice
commented just the other day something about taking it easy, shallow cycles for
the first few. Any other suggestions?
Wishing David the best on the rest of his project and hoping he'll be joining
us again soon.
Chet
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--- Begin Message ---
About a month ago I saw the E-Volks Wilderness EV wares and president
at a Utah car show. I threw up a web page of some pictures and a
movie I took:
<http://9electric.evforge.net/evolks>
Here is their official web site.
<http://www.e-volks.com>.
Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in their success or failure,
nor do I represent them in any way. Please contact the above web site
for more information.
I was enjoying the car show, and suddenly pointed and asked my
car-savvy friend "What kind of motor is that?" He guessed a turbine,
but no, it was an electric motor on an evolks car. It was fun to
talk to the President, Brian. He has sold about 60 cars and says his
business is doing well, and that he gets alot more interest than he
can handle. I could see that happening with gas prices up, and the
good prices he charges for his products.
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
So a shunt wound or a compound wound motor "could" be a sep ex motor?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Compound & Sep Ex
Jack Knopf wrote:
Is a compound wound motor the same as a separately exited motor?
No; one describes how the motor is built; the other describes how the
motor is powered.
A compound wound motor has two fields; one series, and one shunt.
A separately excited motor is when you power the field separately from
the armature (two separate controllers). Thus, it is how you power it,
not how the fields are wound.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With a addon Battery or a way to add power to the Prius's Hybrid pack, Even
at high speed and high throttle demands.. We are seeing a increase in MPG.
So even though a Prius has it's ICE engine running, If you keep the Hybrid
battery at a high state of Charge, The system will use what battery power it
thinks it has.
So.. there is clear benifits in dumping power into the Hydrid pack.. if
the pack has been drawn down during a long hard acceleration. It's a Lot
harder to document it.. but it's there.
This brings up the question as too what is the optimal rate that the Prius's
Hybrid pack should be supported at. Locking the Synergy drive onto a new
battery pack.. has it's issues, since the pack will react different than the
NiMh stock pack will, and Swapping out battery packs while the Prius is
running is very hazzardous to the solid state components.
We have had good succes in using a PFC30 tuned to about 32 amps DC output,
This basicly supports the Prius in EV mode around town with starts and
stops. This lets the 30 amps from the addon battery .. "recover" the Hybrid
NiMh pack, allowing for prolonged running in EV only mode. We have done 20
miles with a large Add on pack in the Electro Energy Inc s Prius, and Ryan
Fulcher and I have done 30 miles support with a lead Acid pack and using the
PFC40H for quick Grid refills. This idea works. The Added 10 amps that the
PFC40H can support seams to have little added effect except that the charger
does not get as hot as Quick as the older PFC30 does. So.. In extended Ev
only mode below 34 mph... 30 to 40 amps seams to be all that is needed.
But in the Stealth modes and the now Even shadier Warp Stealth modes..
adding in Energy to the hybrid pack is not so evidient. It does seam to kick
up the Average MPG running counter. And you do see the system supporting the
SOC, So.. results are there but... many more things are happening.
We keep pumping forward energy as long as the Battery SOC is less than 80
and the CCL is at or above 100 amps. We can suck the Add on pack dry. The
results are tallyed by the trip MPG computer, and a data down load.
So Higher speeds and EV PHEV running works.. You just need to shut down the
system when the addon pack gets drained, and then find a time and a place to
refill the EV Assist again.
We still need to find out if a 150 amp support of the Hybrid pack is worth
the Effort. This would let us up pump the Hybrid pack up as hard or harder
than the drives can pull from it. This might have the added benifit of
stiffening the pack so the electric drives have power peak power on hand
when the hard Acceleration is requested.
Possibly letting us EV hot Rodders have some fun and added excitment, While
being rather Green.
Madman
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chet Fields" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: PHEV - speed?
>
> --- Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I am reading a lot about PHEVs, but everything I have read says the top
speed
> > in all electric mode is 34 MPH.
>
> This is particularly for the Prius' EV Mode, NOT electric only mode. The
Prius
> is capable of electric only mode at higher speeds up to about 42mph where
it
> needs to start the ICE spinning as, because of the planetary gearing, the
> second motor generator would be spinning over 10,000 RPM. However, it can
still
> stay in electric only, (NO spark or fuel) even higher (the term
warp-stealth
> has been coined to describe it), as long as the current draw does not
exceed a
> level determined by the state of charge of the battery. Granted this does
not
> take too long as the battery capacity is severely limited (at least in EV
> terms).
>
> > Is anyone working on a way to increase the max speed in all electric
mode?
>
> What some are trying to do is to allow another battery pack paralleled in
with
> the Prius Hybrid pack (Or some by replacing it altogether) that has a
greater
> capacity, therefore allowing the higher current to be drawn for longer
periods
> of time.
>
> EV Mode basically does the following:
>
> ** Stops the initial warm up of the ICE.
> ** Allows for greater current draw on the battery (Although also limited)
> ** Allows for greater depth of discharge of the battery (Although also
limited)
>
> If either of the latter 2 are exceeded however, it kicks out of EV Mode
and
> reverts to normal operation.
>
> In normal operation, once the ICE and catalytic converter are warmed up
(Which
> really only takes about a minute in a Prius that has been run in that last
day
> or so), then the system decides to run in electric only mode if the
conditions
> are right; low enough current draw, sufficient state of charge, etc.
>
> What would be nice is if the EV Mode's increased parameters were available
even
> though the car is running in normal mode and warmed up. That way the extra
> power a larger battery pack can give would give you even more 'electric
only'
> driving even over the 34 mph limit.
>
> The Prius was designed to be a hybrid and it's battery management and
planetary
> CVT are integral to making it work as such. Both of these factors make it
> difficult to use as a higher speed EV.
>
> HTH,
> Chet
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I posted this to the Zappy list, but I know a few on this list are also
scooter guys.
Recently my son brought home a scooter motor that we are
hoping to install on a pocket bike. The motor appears to be a BMC®
24 Volt 600 Watt as shown on this website.
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/motors.html
It has an integrated controller which I am not sure how to wire up.
There are a total of six wires that appear to go to the controller,
and I thought that I would ask if anyone has a wiring diagram before
I get the DVM and a couple of batteries out and try to figure it out
myself. The wires that seem to go to the controller are colored ,
as far as I can tell, Red,Black,White,Purple,Blue, and Green (the
red looks a bit orange and the purple looks a bit red). Besides
those six, there is another set of two Black and Red wires that are
clearly for the drive battery feeds. I would imagine that a couple
of the wires are for a key on switch a couple for a throttle control
etc... but knowing exactly what they are all for would be much
easier than trying to figure it all out the old trial and error
way. Thanks for your help.
Damon Henry
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/497
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10 Jun 2006 at 10:23, David Dymaxion wrote:
> Here is their official web site.
> <http://www.e-volks.com>.
>
I wish them the best. But I'm afraid their homepage won't gain them many
well-educated customers. It appears to have been haphazardly coded,
producing a strange text layout. The words "instead of part of the" are
spread out across one entire line in my browser, and two long series of
hyphens appear in the middle of another line. It's also too wide for a 1024
x 768 browser window, and requires sideways scrolling to see everything.
What a nuisance.
The homepage is also rife with misspelled words and careless punctuation.
Today a website is a substantial part of every company's public face. You'd
think that even if E-Volks's webmaster had some literacy problems, they
could have found someone with a decent high school education to proofread
the page before they posted it.
I don't advocate the "all style, no content" approach to websites, but this
is no better. IMO it doesn't do much to enhance the reputation of EV
builders in general. Bummer.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #47: H2Prius: Another eVermont Car
I ran into Harold Garabedian of eVermont next to the hydrogen-powered Prius
that had just been delivered. It took me a few moments to realize that this
was an "ordinary" Prius that had been converted to burn hydrogen in the engine
that normally used gasoline. When I looked under the hood, it looked the same
as every other Prius I've seen, at first glance. "The hydrogen is delivered
here. The injectors were changed to handle gaseous fuel. It's turbo charged."
The conversion was done in California by Quantum Technologies. "The only thing
that is different is that it has a compressed gas refueling port. It's a smart
system. There is a data port that interacts with the refueler. It takes 5,000
pounds per square-inch (PSI) hydrogen. It carries 1.6 kilograms of hydrogen.
A kilogram of hydrogen is about equivalent to a gallon of gasoline, so the car
has a nominal range of about 80 to 100 miles. We built a PEM (Proton Exchange
Membrane) electrolyzer, made by Proton Energy Systems, powered by a wind
turbine" to create the hydrogen from water; the oxygen is vented to the air.
"So the vision of the project is `Wind to Wheels', to demonstrate sustainable
transportation energy.
"Nothing different up front, inside, or in the back" except for the pressure
tank "but the car has no carbon emissions, and the energy comes from the wind.
And the point is that it is done today, with existing technology, as opposed to
fuel cell cars which are at some point in the future, maybe."
So, when they evaluate this, what will the measures-of-merit be? "What we are
looking for is vehicle performance comparable to the unconverted vehicle. The
other issues will be the ease of refueling, and efficiency. We expect a slight
efficiency gain, overall, in terms of the vehicle-engine system. We need to
document that. Then we will evaluate system efficiency. How efficient is it
to extract wind energy, convert that to hydrogen, compress it, put it into a
car and then drive it? It will be placed in daily routine service to
demonstrate practicality. It will be at the Burlington Vermont Department of
Public Works. They will use it for job-related duties around town.
If you didn't have the signage on the car, you wouldn't know it was a hydrogen
car except, "it is a tad quieter, because the hydrogen combustion process is
not a noisy as gasoline." And I'm told that the exhuast smells "clean."
While talking with Harold and the other eVermonters, I discovered that I had
the wrong idea of what eVermont was. "It is not a state agency. It's origin
was a public-private partnership where state government had a prominent role
getting it organized. Governor Dean, back in 1993, was behind it. It was in
reaction to the auto industry saying, `if the northeast states adopt the
California 2% (of cars sold must be zero emission) mandate, all those electric
vehicles won't work in cold weather.'" Many thought that the engineering
challenges were solvable, not to mention that Solectria and EV hobbiests seemed
to be driving around the northeast. "Rather than have a food fight, we said
`let us look as this as the engineering problem that it is and let us show, in a
public way, proof-of-concept solutions to the legitimate issues being raised.
We'll put before the public the technology and solutions.' So it started as
state government, academics and private enterprises, partnering to get federal
grants to do those demonstrations. eVermont has morphed into a private, IRS
501(c)(3), not-for-profit organization, where the only tie to government is
through the donation of some of a small percent of my time. I'm employed by
the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources. eVermont stands on its own by doing
projects of public significance. It's mission is to influence public policy
through the demonstration of technology. It's leadership by example.
"A project like these takes a vision and puts it before the public so that they
get information that is not solely dependent on commercial interests. The
eVermont projects try to show the possibilities for clean air, sustainable
energy and economic development through real world, day-to-day, on the road
experiences.
"The Evergreen electric car we saw earlier is part of a broader concept, namely
that as a society we need to move away from transportation being thought of as
personal property to `mobility service', much as you buy internet as a service.
"eVermont has no employees. It picks up contractors and technical support
services only for specific projects."
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
