EV Digest 5564
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Zilla and Rudman Charger Green
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Job Opening for Hi-Tech Transportation Market Research Analysts
by "Kevin Gainer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) thermocouple positioning
by Steve O <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San Francisco.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: thermocouple positioning
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) My EV grin
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: thermocouple positioning
by Steve O <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: thermocouple positioning
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: My EV grin
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: [weights and] airbags
by "Vivek Gani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Busy day
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) My Batteries Would Like to Hitch a Ride
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Potential EV Motor
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: My EV grin
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) ETEK (PM brushes) cooling
by JCT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: My EV grin
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San Francisco.
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Busy day
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) voltage limit 144
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: [weights and] airbags
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Compound & Sep Ex
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) stainless steel & battery acid?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Battery V matching
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Zilla and Rudman Charger Green
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: voltage limit 144
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!! Comments an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, Otmar,
You guys gotta coordinate your color of green you use on your hardware. I
got this Green & Red thing goin' on under my hood and I'm trying to figure
out what color to paint all my equipment supporting brackets. What color
green do you spec on each of your components. I figure I'll pick one and
make the rest of my brackets that color. Leaf Green?, Forrest green? (red
being the WarP 9 and equipment standoff insulators and 2/0 wire)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
High Tech MARKET RESEARCH Report Preparation (Telecommuting, Boston MA)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BCC Research, Inc. is seeking seasoned market researchers/writers who are
capable of preparing complete, self-contained technical/economic market
research reports discussing select high technology markets: Fuel cells,
alternative fuels, hybrid/electric vehicles, intelligent
highways/transportation, and related areas. Individuals from all disciplines
are welcome to apply. Applicants must have excellent knowledge of their
industry and excellent economic/market research skills. Successful
applicants must be able to meet publication deadlines and adhere closely to
finished copy format requirements which are supplied by the publisher.
Compensation is competitive and scaled to publication sales (and includes
guaranteed advance at author's hand-in of finished document). Typical
duration of each assignment is 12 weeks (multiple assignments available).
Please apply by e-mailing your resume, list of publications, and a brief
cover letter identifying industries/technical areas of greatest interest to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evenin' all,
I am positioning several thermocouples around my EV. I have a few questions?
Where am I best positioning the thermocouple on my Curtis 1231? On the front
panel by the connections?
Which is the best position for one on the motor - just on the casing?
Just to be posh I though I'd have one measuring outside temp. Where is it
best positioned to measure outside temp?
Any help greatly appreciated.
Ta
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is in town and we plan to go to Goat
Hill Pizza Monday night for an EV get together. (Christopher has had some
success with his EV's). Anyone interested? I'll email back directions and
a time. I'm assuming around 5:30 PM. Any later and the line gets long.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I certainly think they are two steps below what you offer Shari but it is a
working shunt motor that can do regen. Not as efficient as what you offer
but quite a bit less expensive. You get what you pay for. No doubt. I'm
finishing one of your kits and there is no comparison. Yes the E-Volks
works but it is not the kit you offer. The E-Volks kit needs a lot of minor
upgrading before it is as safe and useable as your's but in the end you can
get a very useable EV for short distance use at a very low price. I'm sure
they will improve as they gain experience. Their price will also go up as
they improve. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
> Anybody with actual experience with one of these cars? They look
> like the old aircraft generators that we stopped using more than 20
> years ago - which would explain the amazingly low prices.
>
> I would issue a huge Buyer Beware on this outfit.
>
> Shari Prange
>
>
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw the video. Seems they are using the clutch. I could hear the motor
spinning and clutching going on. If they were using a 72v Axe controller
you're looking at maybe 45 to 50 mph in a small car like that. Just fine
for flat lands. Hills???? That's another story. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Steve O <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am positioning several thermocouples around my EV. I have a few questions?
>
> Which is the best position for one on the motor - just on the casing?
>
Not too long ago there was a thread about placing temp sensors on motors. One
of the places I plan
on monitoring temperature is the brushes. If I remember correctly you can drill
a hole directly in
the brush and secure a sensor in there, the side opposite to where it contacts
the comm. Of
course, you need to make sure you don't go too deep (1/2 inch is good.) And the
sensor and wiring
have to stay out of the way of the other stuff. I believe the theory is that if
you draw heavy
amps, the brushes will be the first parts to heat up. If I remember correctly.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was there!
2 of us from the Tucson EV club went up to see Dennis run. We got to Speedworld
around 7, parked and walked around looking for Dennis and the CE. We couldn't
find him and then I heard the announcer saying ' now here comes the electric
dragster which is in 1st place for division 7', so I knew that he was racing. A
minute later he rolls out of the traps and into the pit area.
I had met him once before. In 2004 I went up to the Las Vegas 'Wicked Watts'
and took a motor for somebody because Dennis had a points race that he had to
run. When I got to his place outside Phoenix, he showed me the CE and its
features, especially the bush advance that he has had for years (for an
explanation of bush advancing see the recent post by Doug Weathers, 'motor
sizing', 6/10/06).
When we got to his pit, Dennis was measuring his motor temp. He uses a Fluke
laser, it is for reference only, not the true internal temp, he aims it at the
same spot all the time and it becomes one of his many parameters that he
factors into what time he dials in. It was about 114 and didn't vary more than
3 or 4 degrees for the 4 runs he did last night.
I don't remember the kind of motor or its rating, but it is BIG - about 12-14"
in diameter and about 16" in length. He showed us the commutator and it was
bright and uniform, no pitting at all, so obviously he has overcome any arcing
problem associated with advancing or retarding the timing. There is a chain
drive from the motor shaft directly connected to a sprocket on the wheels, no
transmission to break.
Dennis 'dials in' what he thinks his time will down the 1/4 mile. Last night it
was in the 11.98 second range (about 119 mph). He ran 3 trials, practice runs.
On his 4th run, the competition run, his reaction time at the start was .003 of
a second slower than the dragster he was racing against. So this kind of racing
is not just who is fastest, it is basically who knows his car the best to
predict the time down the track combined with the best reaction time off the
line. At least that is the way I understand it... For a better explanation of
'Dialing in" go to http://dm3electrics.com/, scroll down to the bottom and
there is a whole section on Dennis and 'Bracket Racing'. He really enjoys going
up against the fuel dragsters, showing them that his batteries work... and are
better! Here is another explanation of Bracket racing
http://www.nhra.com/basics/index.html. He has a practice tree
http://www.portatree.com/race_eliminator.html that he uses all the time, at
home, driving !
etc, to practice his reaction time.
When he comes back from a run he recharges his pack with a Miller welding
generator in his trailer. He plugs in the Anderson 350 connector, puts in about
27 amps and in about 5 min the pack is back up. His new pack are 12V Hawkers, I
don't know what kind, but they must be small ones. The whole pack fits in a
space about 2 ft x 2 ft x 2 ft. 30 batteries for a 360 v system. He has a
Zilla, Z2K-EHV, which he keeps to about 1k amps. For his burnout he switches it
to valet mode to put current into the motor so it doesn't over rev. His burnout
is really minimal compared to the other dragsters. His tires are from Goodyear
(sponsored) and the tire technicians told him that the more you smoke the
tires, the more the tire deteriorates. All you hear when he does his burn out
is a high pitched whine, just like the initial sound of a Curtis 1231
controller. It really is fantastic to see him and the other dragsters in line
waiting. When the others move up, you put your hands over your ear!
s, when he moves up, you just keep on talking to him... The CE weights about
1300 lbs and you can push it with your little finger, its not that it is light,
it just rolls so easily. His website is http://www.currenteliminator.net/home/,
there is more info about the CE there.
Jimmy from the Phoenix club was also there (http://dm3electrics.com/ is his
website). While Dennis took a nap in his trailer between trials, we talked
about the history of racing and everything else. He said that he started racing
in the early nineties. He heard that PIR was going to have 'Electric 500' races
and that one of the sponsors was GE. He wrote to them saying he would like to
participate and a couple weeks later got a Motor and controller sent to
him...Wish we could do that now! Those races must have been astounding, can you
imagine 20 or so cars circling a track with no noise?
I left around 12:30 and got back to Tucson around 2am... I was tired, but had a
lot of fun, learned a lot more about EV's and what they can do in competition
with fuel cars, saw an EV that has a lot of history behind it. Dennis is
putting the CE on Ebay soon and with the proceeds will build his next CE, which
he says with the right battery pack he'll be able to do 5's... FAST.
He's up at Speedworld next weekend for another points race in his quest for the
championship of Divison 7, wouldn't that be great - an EV as the best NHRA
division 7 dragster?
Anybody going to go and see him win?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
> Lost in the 1st round at Firebird last night at the NHRA summit race for a
> $1000 to the dragster that took out the 1st place person at team speedworld.I
> had a .003 reaction time but did not dial the CE close enough.This does not
> affect my points standing for the NHRA summit series at Speedworld,where we
> are
> still in 1st place in the super pro class. Dennis Berube
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IT'A ALIVE!!! Well, it has a pulse anyway. I couldn't stand it anymore, and
connected it all up and took the 76 Courier for a spin around the block. And
around the neighborhood. And around the block a few more times.
So, okay, it's not ready for prime time yet. The Zilla cooling system isn't
installed yet, and the Prestolite's blower turns off with a switch in a box I
duct-taped to the motor. And yeah, it looks like a rolling science project,
and it's got a bunch of random crap in the bed. I don't have any working
meters yet, the tire pressure isn't right, the rolling resistance is
ridiculous, the seat is full of cat hair from the family pet making it home for
the last six months, and I still have to replace the door seals... but...the
acceleration is good... it rolls smoother every mile, and....
IT'S ALIVE!! hahahahahahahahahaha!!!
It moves under it's own power. And right now, it's sitting in the garage,
sucking down amps, waiting to roll again...
Grinnin'.....
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave
I do remember reading that. My only query is that the brushes are designed to
operate at very high temps. Also is it really necessary to know what temp these
"hi temp" components are at? I will probably only be interested in relative
temps rather than absolutes. If the thermocouple is attached to the motor
casing it will give relative readings. eg if I start smelling smoke etc and I
glance at my motor sensor and see its never been that hot before then I will
know to slow down. Does that make sense?
Thanks
Steve
Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- Steve O wrote:
>
> I am positioning several thermocouples around my EV. I have a few questions?
>
> Which is the best position for one on the motor - just on the casing?
>
Not too long ago there was a thread about placing temp sensors on motors. One
of the places I plan
on monitoring temperature is the brushes. If I remember correctly you can drill
a hole directly in
the brush and secure a sensor in there, the side opposite to where it contacts
the comm. Of
course, you need to make sure you don't go too deep (1/2 inch is good.) And the
sensor and wiring
have to stay out of the way of the other stuff. I believe the theory is that if
you draw heavy
amps, the brushes will be the first parts to heat up. If I remember correctly.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps a more reliable method might be a noncontact infrared
thermopile. Search Digikey for "Melexis".
Could measure the rotor temps too.
Danny
Steve O wrote:
Hi Dave
I do remember reading that. My only query is that the brushes are designed to operate at very high temps. Also is it really necessary to know what temp these "hi temp" components are at? I will probably only be interested in relative temps rather than absolutes. If the thermocouple is attached to the motor casing it will give relative readings. eg if I start smelling smoke etc and I glance at my motor sensor and see its never been that hot before then I will know to slow down. Does that make sense?
Thanks
Steve
Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- Steve O wrote:
I am positioning several thermocouples around my EV. I have a few questions?
Which is the best position for one on the motor - just on the casing?
Not too long ago there was a thread about placing temp sensors on motors. One
of the places I plan
on monitoring temperature is the brushes. If I remember correctly you can drill
a hole directly in
the brush and secure a sensor in there, the side opposite to where it contacts
the comm. Of
course, you need to make sure you don't go too deep (1/2 inch is good.) And the
sensor and wiring
have to stay out of the way of the other stuff. I believe the theory is that if
you draw heavy
amps, the brushes will be the first parts to heat up. If I remember correctly.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations!!! I hear ya! That was me two weeks ago. Still got the dog
hair, still no meters, but I did get the Zilla cooling in after I noticed it
going into current limit because of the temperature. Next is the blower for
the motor and Brueggemann Battery Meter.
Congratulations again!!! Got pics?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Steve Condie
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:12 PM
To: EV List
Subject: My EV grin
IT'A ALIVE!!! Well, it has a pulse anyway. I couldn't stand it anymore,
and connected it all up and took the 76 Courier for a spin around the block.
And around the neighborhood. And around the block a few more times.
So, okay, it's not ready for prime time yet. The Zilla cooling system isn't
installed yet, and the Prestolite's blower turns off with a switch in a box
I duct-taped to the motor. And yeah, it looks like a rolling science
project, and it's got a bunch of random crap in the bed. I don't have any
working meters yet, the tire pressure isn't right, the rolling resistance
is ridiculous, the seat is full of cat hair from the family pet making it
home for the last six months, and I still have to replace the door seals...
but...the acceleration is good... it rolls smoother every mile, and....
IT'S ALIVE!! hahahahahahahahahaha!!!
It moves under it's own power. And right now, it's sitting in the garage,
sucking down amps, waiting to roll again...
Grinnin'.....
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been wondering about this topic as well. I can't imagine it being hard
to keep the airbags functioning after the EV is converting, especially if
you just leave all the airbag electronics as is and hook it up to a 12v
supply.
On 6/10/06, Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would hesitate to transplant one into a car
> that didn't have one in the first place.
What about a conversion of a vehicle with airbags?
(I'm not sure the question applies to my current EV,
which was converted by a stranger,
so no-one knows what was ripped out)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Busy day, got both Prizms and the S10 running. Pretty impressive
actually, they both had a number of minor and weird little bugs. All
fixed, all happy.
I really like the 95 US Electricar Prizm, much nicer interior than the
94 and a better layout of the gauges. They both handle about as well as
my car actually, which is not too bad.
So tomorrow I'll bum around SF for awhile, then meet with Lawerence in
the evening. Then go home on Tuesday, it's been a busy weekend.
It was good to meet everyone at the SJ EV meeting on Saturday, also nice
to see so many EV's. Ed's Saturn is quite impressive, and the NiMH S10
is actually pretty neat as well. People are doing a lot of
experimenting, and it's that sort of thing that helps to push the
boundaries.
Now I need to get home and fiddle with the truck. Hm. Maybe start by
bumping the power from 50kw to 80kw. That 100kw AC system was not bad...
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone by chance is planning a trip soon from either Salt Lake
City or San Francisco to Los Angeles, I have about 3-400 pounds of
NiCd batteries in both places that would like to hitch a ride.
They are willing to share gas but not driving. If interested,
please email me at the email address on my home page, skewray.com.
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On ebay ...
Item Number: 7627503135. This is a decent sized motor, but will need some
adapting to make it work in a car. I'd say its better than any surplus shunt
wound generator thats about the same price. But, then again adapting is
necessary. The price is $199, about $250 shipped. Maybe you can negotiate
that down some.
There is also another one if you do an advanced find on "electric vehicle."
It is some kind of new in the box GE motor, but pickup only in California. $100
to start the bid.
By the way, I did see "Who Killed the Electric Car" yesterday in Atlanta.
Very good film. Worthwhile. Try to make an effort to see it and spread the
word. Much information in the film, I didn't know before. Many of our club
brought out their EVs. I think we had 5 total parked out front. People were
interested and asked a lot of questions as usual. It helps promote when you
bring the cars. Unfortunately, mine is in pieces while I work out some issues,
but at least we had some there.
Steve
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd LOVE to see a picture of the 76 Courier in action!!! Way to go!
Mike
From: Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: My EV grin
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:13:12 -0800
Congratulations!!! I hear ya! That was me two weeks ago. Still got the
dog
hair, still no meters, but I did get the Zilla cooling in after I noticed
it
going into current limit because of the temperature. Next is the blower
for
the motor and Brueggemann Battery Meter.
Congratulations again!!! Got pics?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Steve Condie
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:12 PM
To: EV List
Subject: My EV grin
IT'A ALIVE!!! Well, it has a pulse anyway. I couldn't stand it anymore,
and connected it all up and took the 76 Courier for a spin around the
block.
And around the neighborhood. And around the block a few more times.
So, okay, it's not ready for prime time yet. The Zilla cooling system isn't
installed yet, and the Prestolite's blower turns off with a switch in a box
I duct-taped to the motor. And yeah, it looks like a rolling science
project, and it's got a bunch of random crap in the bed. I don't have any
working meters yet, the tire pressure isn't right, the rolling resistance
is ridiculous, the seat is full of cat hair from the family pet making it
home for the last six months, and I still have to replace the door seals...
but...the acceleration is good... it rolls smoother every mile, and....
IT'S ALIVE!! hahahahahahahahahaha!!!
It moves under it's own power. And right now, it's sitting in the garage,
sucking down amps, waiting to roll again...
Grinnin'.....
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/metadata/oai:casi.ntrs.nasa.gov:19830010319
Check out this web site. I found it when I googled "change of Pace" Pacer.
Yes that is NASA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
On 10 Jun 2006 at 15:21, Chris & Patrick wrote:
[I] once did a break job on an old AMC wagon that
required a small sledgehammer ...
Yep, those AMC Sportabouts and Pacers were darn hard to break.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-)
Obligatory EV content : anybody here remember the Change-of-Pace?
http://www.amcpacer.com/stories/electric-pacer.html
Check out that photo. It looks like they crammed at least 8 golf car
batteries under the hood. Not bad.
It was converted near me, in Cleveland, during the late 1970s. The sad
part
is that I never even knew about it at the time. That's how good (not)
their
PR was.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
After a couple of years using my E-Tractor mower I have decided to
add forced ventilation to it just to be safe, giving the stories I
have been reading here.
Now, I have no idea what CFM I shoul aim for.
So anyone knows of a source(s) for a 48V (squirrel cage?) blower that
will do the job?
I will connect the blower on the top of the ETEK.
As for sucking or pushing air from/to there, I have been reading all
what has been writing on this matter here without having a clear idea
as to what to do except for this:
I think I will push air from the top because this will give me
control on where I will suck the air that will went through the motor
and I will try to keep it as clean as possible.
Thanks for any help,
JCT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go Steve , don't think the fun stops now , you got a whole lot of
first times . What puzzles me is how something that is so much fun just
hasn't spread like wild fire across our country . I hope your post helps
some of the people on the list that are either thinking of building ( or
buying a used , or new conversion ) get theirs on the road.
Steve Clunn
IT'S ALIVE!! hahahahahahahahahaha!!!
It moves under it's own power. And right now, it's sitting in the garage,
sucking down amps, waiting to roll again...
Grinnin'.....
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
5:30PM?!?
Is there any way you could make that later? There's just no way I could
leave work at a reasonable time and make it all the way up to the city by
5:30. (Presumably others from around the Bay Area would feel the same way)
And Goat Hill Pizza doesn't appear to be close to either CalTrain or BART
stops, so I can't work on my way up there, either.
I understand the line gets long, but, well, there's a good reason for that!
jorg
On 6/11/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is in town and we plan to go to Goat
Hill Pizza Monday night for an EV get together. (Christopher has had some
success with his EV's). Anyone interested? I'll email back directions
and
a time. I'm assuming around 5:30 PM. Any later and the line gets long.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
It was fun to have the left and right coasts meet up!
I compared the constants for the 50kw and the 80kw. Only a couple slip
values changed. So all that is left to try to increase the constant
that limits the motor current ;) After that we would need to grab the
Eprom(?) from your 80kw system and burn some chips with it. Then again
why waste time. I'd love to just transplant a 160kw system.
Too bad you could not hook up with Rick and get his car going.
I did play with the regen values and got them to pump 229 amps into
the pack from just 40 mph. No brakes needed at all!
C'ya next time.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Busy day, got both Prizms and the S10 running. Pretty impressive
> actually, they both had a number of minor and weird little bugs. All
> fixed, all happy.
>
> I really like the 95 US Electricar Prizm, much nicer interior than the
> 94 and a better layout of the gauges. They both handle about as well as
> my car actually, which is not too bad.
>
> So tomorrow I'll bum around SF for awhile, then meet with Lawerence in
> the evening. Then go home on Tuesday, it's been a busy weekend.
>
> It was good to meet everyone at the SJ EV meeting on Saturday, also
nice
> to see so many EV's. Ed's Saturn is quite impressive, and the NiMH S10
> is actually pretty neat as well. People are doing a lot of
> experimenting, and it's that sort of thing that helps to push the
> boundaries.
>
> Now I need to get home and fiddle with the truck. Hm. Maybe start by
> bumping the power from 50kw to 80kw. That 100kw AC system was not bad...
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I purchased my S10, the owner had put in 156 Volts of Trojan's.
That's the limit on the DCP 600.
The FB1-4001 Advanced DC 9" has a rated limit of 120-144 Volts. So, for
other reasons I pulled out two batteries.
I have an interest in a little more power. Would one reccomend against
putting these two batteries back for 156V?
The previous owner used the truck for 2 months at this voltage. If I
continued at this higher voltage, over time,
1. Would the motor have problems that it would not otherwise have at 144
Volts?
2. Am I hurting efficiency?
3. At 156, am I not gaining the power I think I would be?
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
I would hesitate to transplant one into a car
that didn't have one in the first place.
What about a conversion of a vehicle with airbags?
Don't worry too much, several people here have done conversions of cars
with airbag systems. Just identify which components are part of the
airbag systems and leave them alone. Airbag wiring is usually in yellow
loom and connectors. Most vehicles have one or two sensors in the
grill/bumper area. Do not mount anything near them if possible, and
avoid stiffening the vehicle in front of them. There is also often a
sensor mounted on the firewall, inside or out (although sometimes this
one is part of the airbag computer). Many systems rely on comparing the
deacceleration of the front sensors to the firewall sensor, a
significant difference (indicating the front of the vehicle is
crumpling) triggers the system.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Knopf wrote:
>
> So a shunt wound or a compound wound motor "could" be a sep ex motor?
Yes. Any wound field motor can be used as a separately excited motor.
All that's required are two independent power sources; one for the
armature, and one for the field.
However, if a motor is *intended* to be a sepex motor, its field will be
wound for a convenient voltage for the field controller. This will be a
higher voltage than for a series field, but a lower voltage than for a
shunt field.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The acid in flooded lead acid batteries will eat way at regular steel.
But how about stainless steel? Will it get destroyed too? Does it matter
if 304 or 316 etc.?
I had thought that stainless was immune to the acid, but after some talk
on ElecTraks am wondering if it really would be the "holy grail" of
battery boxes?
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Is there a v tolerance that batteries, specifically Trojan 6v's, should have
from battery to battery? How closely should the batteries in a string match?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The officail color of Manzanita Micro chargers is
RAL 6016 Green. This is the exact Powder Coating color Spec.
Mine is the Greenest chip in the color charts at Parks Able Metals in Aloha
Ore.
Ot's green is a custom Lizzard skin color.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Zilla and Rudman Charger Green
> Rich, Otmar,
> You guys gotta coordinate your color of green you use on your hardware. I
> got this Green & Red thing goin' on under my hood and I'm trying to figure
> out what color to paint all my equipment supporting brackets. What color
> green do you spec on each of your components. I figure I'll pick one and
> make the rest of my brackets that color. Leaf Green?, Forrest green?
(red
> being the WarP 9 and equipment standoff insulators and 2/0 wire)
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go back to 156 volts!!
The DCP Raptors are good for this voltage
The 9 incher doesn't get into trouble until you can find 170 volts on the
motor and over 1000 amps.
The Raptors were tested with a AVDC 8 inch motor and 156 volts.
So.. 156 is one of thier sweat spots.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:16 AM
Subject: voltage limit 144
> When I purchased my S10, the owner had put in 156 Volts of Trojan's.
> That's the limit on the DCP 600.
> The FB1-4001 Advanced DC 9" has a rated limit of 120-144 Volts. So, for
> other reasons I pulled out two batteries.
>
> I have an interest in a little more power. Would one reccomend against
> putting these two batteries back for 156V?
>
> The previous owner used the truck for 2 months at this voltage. If I
> continued at this higher voltage, over time,
> 1. Would the motor have problems that it would not otherwise have at 144
> Volts?
>
> 2. Am I hurting efficiency?
>
> 3. At 156, am I not gaining the power I think I would be?
>
> Thanks, Ben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:23 PM 6/10/2006, you wrote:
They do tend to offer lower voltage and lower speed cars, which is
easier on components. They did have one of their cars at the show,
and I did see it run -- you can see a short video I posted at
<http://9electric.evforge.net/evolks>. Their designs seem to be
optimized for low cost.
I still have to question offering an entire turnkey car for $2,000 -
chassis, electric drive, and conversion labor. If it sounds too good
to be true, it usually is.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
> I was there!
>
> 2 of us from the Tucson EV club went up to see Dennis run. We got to
Speedworld around 7, parked and walked around looking for Dennis and the CE.
We couldn't find him and then I heard the announcer saying ' now here comes
the electric dragster which is in 1st place for division 7', so I knew that
he was racing. A minute later he rolls out of the traps and into the pit
area.
>
Hi Rush an' All;
Good to see ya guys getting out and cheering Dennis along. Too bad he
isn't running at PIR, too.Youse guys from the Phoenix area, and there is a
bunch of you, getting out there to you're fastest game in town.
Snip-a-bit
> I had met him once before. In 2004 I went up to the Las Vegas 'Wicked
Watts' and took a motor for somebody because Dennis had a points race that
he had to run. When I got to his place outside Phoenix, he showed me the CE
and its features, especially the bush advance that he has had for years (for
an explanation of bush advancing see the recent post by Doug Weathers,
'motor sizing', 6/10/06).
I was out to Dennis's outside Phoenix, along with Rick Pryor and Dave
Chapman, we stopped off at Dennis's saw his shop, and a dramatic
demonstration of brush shifting, as to what effect it can have on DC
machines. Mainly a DC welding genny being used to charge his house
batteries. Like for off-the-grid living. Got to play with his Garage
Christmas tree, the one ya practice youir drag starts. Just like at better
trascks EVerywhere, but with out all the noise!
Can you say" Relentless Persuit of Perfection"as the Lexis guyz say?
Dennis just works on it til it works just right! Things don't break, he has
gone beyond that. The damn car just goes like hell, every day, every pass.
It is the details that Dennis has gone to extreames to take care of. He goes
about his work, in relative obscurity, although he IS getting some
recognition at Speed World or what EVer the track he is running on.
Now, if Diss-Covery or Monster Garage would drop off at Dennis's for a
good EV success story?Like EV drag Racing , the REAL story. Or " Who Raced
the Electric Car" instead of "Killed" Follow it up with a few other racing
guyz? The Zombie. John Wayland as well as Dennis would come over on the
Tube, just great!
>
> When we got to his pit, Dennis was measuring his motor temp. He uses a
Fluke laser, it is for reference only, not the true internal temp, he aims
it at the same spot all the time and it becomes one of his many parameters
that he factors into what time he dials in. It was about 114 and didn't vary
more than 3 or 4 degrees for the 4 runs he did last night.
>
> I don't remember the kind of motor or its rating, but it is BIG - about
12-14" in diameter and about 16" in length. He showed us the commutator and
it was bright and uniform, no pitting at all, so obviously he has overcome
any arcing problem associated with advancing or retarding the timing. There
is a chain drive from the motor shaft directly connected to a sprocket on
the wheels, no transmission to break.
Right! No substitute for a BIG motor! And the tranny won't break, if it
isn't there!
>
> Dennis 'dials in' what he thinks his time will down the 1/4 mile. Last
night it was in the 11.98 second range (about 119 mph). He ran 3 trials,
practice runs. On his 4th run, the competition run, his reaction time at the
start was .003 of a second slower than the dragster he was racing against.
So this kind of racing is not just who is fastest, it is basically who knows
his car the best to predict the time down the track combined with the best
reaction time off the line. At least that is the way I understand it... For
a better explanation of 'Dialing in" go to http://dm3electrics.com/, scroll
down to the bottom and there is a whole section on Dennis and 'Bracket
Racing'. He really enjoys going up against the fuel dragsters, showing them
that his batteries work... and are better! Here is another explanation of
Bracket racing http://www.nhra.com/basics/index.html. He has a practice tree
http://www.portatree.com/race_eliminator.html that he uses all the time, at
home, driving !
> etc, to practice his reaction time.
>
I always thought of drag racing was; GO like HELL, as hard and fast as it
will, get down the track at laws-of-physics, defying speeds, like the Top
Fuel Guyz?4 seconds, no way, but they DO, Scary seeing one on TV blow up the
engine, it just desingdigrated, spraying parts all over the track. Driver
got out, shaken but OK. Amazing! Now with an Electric, that won't
happen!Neither will the 4 second stuff, but if Dennis can get a better
battery? Dennis needs a battery sponsor, for sure! Until they let him string
catenery over the track,trolley poles, and a power substation at the
end??Well,I don't think the Trak guyz are gunna go for that? Or a surplus
steam catapult from a junked aircraft carrier<G>! So we'll do with BADeries
for now. Sigh.
> When he comes back from a run he recharges his pack with a Miller welding
generator in his trailer. He plugs in the Anderson 350 connector, puts in
about 27 amps and in about 5 min the pack is back up. His new pack are 12V
Hawkers, I don't know what kind, but they must be small ones. The whole pack
fits in a space about 2 ft x 2 ft x 2 ft. 30 batteries for a 360 v system.
He has a Zilla, Z2K-EHV, which he keeps to about 1k amps. For his burnout he
switches it to valet mode to put current into the motor so it doesn't over
rev. His burnout is really minimal compared to the other dragsters. His
tires are from Goodyear (sponsored) and the tire technicians told him that
the more you smoke the tires, the more the tire deteriorates. All you hear
when he does his burn out is a high pitched whine, just like the initial
sound of a Curtis 1231 controller. It really is fantastic to see him and the
other dragsters in line waiting. When the others move up, you put your hands
over your ear!
But CE is music to your ears! Especially when he gets the drop on the gas
guy at launch!
> s, when he moves up, you just keep on talking to him... The CE weights
about 1300 lbs and you can push it with your little finger, its not that it
is light, it just rolls so easily.
It IS light and to me, destressingly small! I could never EVen FIT in it
to drive it, IF I were to buy it, if offered ,as mentioned. Maybe "Tubout"
the drivers cockpit to get my fatasse in<g>!At 275 lbs I could help in the
traction dept? Lokies need weight, too??Why should the little slim guyz have
all the fun?
His website is http://www.currenteliminator.net/home/, there is more info
about the CE there.
>
> Jimmy from the Phoenix club was also there (http://dm3electrics.com/ is
his website). While Dennis took a nap in his trailer between trials, we
talked about the history of racing and everything else. He said that he
started racing in the early nineties. He heard that PIR was going to have
'Electric 500' races and that one of the sponsors was GE. He wrote to them
saying he would like to participate and a couple weeks later got a Motor and
controller sent to him...Wish we could do that now! Those races must have
been astounding, can you imagine 20 or so cars circling a track with no
noise?
Yeah! Electric NASCAR? Sparks REALLY fly at smashups. Hell! That's why
folks go to the roundy roundy things. Not to see the cars just run ,
Booooooring, it's those great spectacular SMASHups! Wheee! Now THAT'S
Entertainment ya all!
>
> I left around 12:30 and got back to Tucson around 2am... I was tired, but
had a lot of fun, learned a lot more about EV's and what they can do in
competition with fuel cars, saw an EV that has a lot of history behind it.
Dennis is putting the CE on Ebay soon and with the proceeds will build his
next CE, which he says with the right battery pack he'll be able to do
5's... FAST.
Now lets hope a Lister will give CE a loving home.Or the Smithsonian?
> He's up at Speedworld next weekend for another points race in his quest
for the championship of Divison 7, wouldn't that be great - an EV as the
best NHRA division 7 dragster?
>
> Anybody going to go and see him win?
Bit of a commute for ME, but keep goin' and posting.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
