EV digest 5565

Electric Vehicle Discussion List Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:27:22 -0700

                            EV Digest 5565

Topics covered in this issue include:


  1) Re: Zilla and Rudman Charger Green
        by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Zilla and Rudman Charger Green
        by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Smart chargers and shunt regs
        by "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Zilla and Rudman Charger Green
        by "Steve Arlint" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: voltage limit 144
        by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Battery V matching
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Busy day
        by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
        by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Continuity between M- & potbox connection & Curtis type controllers.
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: ETEK (PM brushes) cooling
        by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San Francisco.  
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San Francisco.
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Karmann Eclectric in living color!
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 15) Auto Engine Block Heater Systems
        by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) FLA Charging Scheme
        by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San Francisco.
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Battery V matching
        by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: FLA Charging Scheme
        by Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: FLA Charging Scheme
        by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: FLA Charging Scheme
        by Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) sick curtis in jet industries FOrd courier
        by Roger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: sick curtis in jet industries Ford Courier
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
        by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: sick curtis in jet industries FOrd courier
        by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
        by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: Smart chargers and shunt regs
        by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) RE: Auto Engine Block Heater Systems
        by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
        by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Karmann Eclectric in living color!
        by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

--- Begin Message ---

The officail color of Manzanita Micro chargers is
RAL 6016 Green. This is the exact Powder Coating color Spec.
Mine is the Greenest chip in the color charts at Parks Able Metals in Aloha
Ore.

Ot's green is a custom Lizzard skin color.

Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro


Custom Shmustom. What are you trying to say here Rich?

Although the first Zilla's were made from Lizard pigments extractedfrom skin samples found on undersea corrals near Japan, that was abit costly to produce so we found a close standard color. :)


Zilla Green is RAL 6026
PN 49/52660 Available from http://www.tigerdrylac.com/
Found under "Ral Colors for Exterior or Interior"

hth,
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/

http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Oh!!

Not a lot of difference.. but  STill makes us unique.

I thought you still had a "Eyes Only " color flavor...

Madman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Zilla and Rudman Charger Green


> >The officail color of Manzanita Micro chargers is
> >RAL 6016 Green. This is the exact Powder Coating color Spec.
> >Mine is the Greenest chip in the color charts at Parks Able Metals in
Aloha
> >Ore.
> >
> >Ot's green is a custom Lizzard skin color.
> >
> >Rich Rudman
> >Manzanita Micro
>
> Custom Shmustom. What are you trying to say here Rich?
>
> Although the first Zilla's were made from Lizard pigments extracted
> from skin samples found on undersea corrals near Japan, that was a
> bit costly to produce so we found a close standard color. :)
>
> Zilla Green is RAL 6026
> PN 49/52660 Available from http://www.tigerdrylac.com/
> Found under "Ral Colors for Exterior or Interior"
>
> hth,
> -- 
> -Otmar-
> 914 EV, California Poppy,
> http://evcl.com/914/
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/
> The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
> Now accepting resumes. Please see:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---
All (Lee especially, or course):

When looking at the data sheet on:

http://soneil.com/Completesets/2403SR(REV12).14-Jul-03.pdf
I am wondering what the interaction would be if the batteries are alsosporting shunt-type balancers.
The charger will build up voltage at a steady current to 14.4V / battery.Now, at 14.4V, the 13.6 volt zeners will be diverting .8V through the PR2lamp. Does this mean about .42A?
According to the datasheet, the Soneil monitors current as well as voltage.At a steady 14.4V / battery, when the current drops to .15A, it drops thetarget voltage to 13.8V / battery, and maintains this as the target floatvoltage
It appears that with the shunts added to the batteries, the Soneils wontdrop back to the float voltage, but will continue providing 14.4 to eachbattery, while the batteries will continue to see 13.6 (under zenerregulation).
Am I thinking straight?

MarkF
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Greetings,
Manzanita Micro = RAL 6016 Green
Zilla's = RAL 6026 Green

If you guys decide to coordinate colors, RAL 6021 might be the best place to 
start.  That's how it would work mathwise.  Oddly enough, looking at the chart 
that I have, RAL 6021 is a pale green unlike either 6016 or 6026.  On the other 
hand, a stong coat of 6021 might be a good breath of fresh air; that is the 
change in color, not the wet paint. 

VR,
Steven Arlint 

-----------------------------------------------------------
> The officail color of Manzanita Micro chargers is
> RAL 6016 Green. This is the exact Powder Coating color Spec.
> Mine is the Greenest chip in the color charts at Parks Able Metals in Aloha
> Ore.
>
> Ot's green is a custom Lizzard skin color.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro

>Custom Shmustom. What are you trying to say here Rich?

>Although the first Zilla's were made from Lizard pigments extracted 
>from skin samples found on undersea corrals near Japan, that was a 
>bit costly to produce so we found a close standard color. :)

>Zilla Green is RAL 6026
>PN 49/52660 Available from http://www.tigerdrylac.com/
>Found under "Ral Colors for Exterior or Interior"

>hth,
>-- -Otmar-
>914 EV, California Poppy,
>http://evcl.com/914/

>http://www.CafeElectric.com/
>The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
>Now accepting resumes. Please see:
>http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html

-- 
_______________________________________________
Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org
This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox.

Powered by Outblaze

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I'm converting an S-10 and my battery pack is going to be 180v. My controller 
is a Zilla Z1K-HV (it can control up to 300 V) and I am using the same motor as 
you, the FB1-4001. I can use 180 v because I can program the Zilla to let out 
less voltage so that I don't harm the 9" motor. 

So if you want more power, you might think of getting a Zilla..

Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:16 AM
Subject: voltage limit 144


> When I purchased my S10, the owner had put in 156 Volts of Trojan's.
> That's the limit on the DCP 600.
> The  FB1-4001 Advanced DC 9" has a rated limit of 120-144 Volts.  So, for
> other reasons I pulled out two batteries.
> 
> I have an interest in a little more power.  Would one reccomend against
> putting these two batteries back for 156V?
> 
> The previous owner used the truck for 2 months at this voltage.  If I
> continued at this higher voltage, over time,
> 1. Would the motor have problems that it would not otherwise have at 144
> Volts?
> 
> 2. Am I hurting efficiency?
> 
> 3. At 156, am I not gaining the power I think I would be?
> 
> Thanks, Ben
> 
> 
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hello Rush,

I have talk to a Trojan tech. some time ago, and they said when a battery 
gets 5% difference then the others at 50% S.O.C., than balance charge them.

This would be 6.3 V on one battery while the others are at 6.6 at full 
charge.

At 50% S.O.C. this would be 6.0 V on one battery while the others are at 6.3 
V.

I don't let the batteries get that far out of balance.  If the difference is 
0.04 volts between the highest and lowest batteries, than I apply a balance 
charge.

I may finish charge the lowest batteries with a separate 6 volt smart 
charger after I have charge the pack to about 95%.  It only takes about 1 to 
2 minutes to bring the lowest ones up.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: Battery V matching


> Hi,
>
> Is there a v tolerance that batteries, specifically Trojan 6v's, should 
> have from battery to battery? How closely should the batteries in a string 
> match?
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

You increased the running population of USE vehicles by 100% in
California. Nice Job.

It was fun to have the left and right coasts meet up for some EV fun.

I compared the constants from 50kw and 80kw. Only a couple slip numbers
changed. Next I'll try the current limit constant and we'll see what
happens. Keep us informed on the 80kw progress.

While taking a test drive yesterday I also played with the regen
constants and got up to 229 amps of regen, so far. No brakes required!

Mike

--- Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Busy day, got both Prizms and the S10 running. Pretty impressive 
> actually, they both had a number of minor and weird little bugs. All 
> fixed, all happy.
> 
> I really like the 95 US Electricar Prizm, much nicer interior than
> the 
> 94 and a better layout of the gauges. They both handle about as well
> as 
> my car actually, which is not too bad.
> 
> So tomorrow I'll bum around SF for awhile, then meet with Lawerence
> in 
> the evening. Then go home on Tuesday, it's been a busy weekend.
> 
> It was good to meet everyone at the SJ EV meeting on Saturday, also
> nice 
> to see so many EV's. Ed's Saturn is quite impressive, and the NiMH
> S10 
> is actually pretty neat as well. People are doing a lot of 
> experimenting, and it's that sort of thing that helps to push the 
> boundaries.
> 
> Now I need to get home and fiddle with the truck. Hm. Maybe start by 
> bumping the power from 50kw to 80kw. That 100kw AC system was not
> bad...
> 
> Chris
> 
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I have one .... yup aircraft starter generator

 upgraded to 48 volts and Alltrax controller ...

Needs better brakes ...  used only as city commuter 25 miles  45mph

trying to figure out regen ?   where to put the diode ??

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Anybody with actual experience with one of these cars?  They look 
> like the old aircraft generators that we stopped using more than 20 
> years ago - which would explain the amazingly low prices.

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Is it possible that damage or runaway is possible if the M- & the potbox
connector touch?  I just noticed that my buss bar to the M- is somewhat
close to the pot box connector and the only thing that might stop continuity
is the insulation on each connector..  Could this cause problems?  Thanks
for any info.  Lawrence Rhodes.......

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I use a PAPST 48v 7"diam muffin fan with aluminum shroud mounted at the
brushes end.  The fan sucks air from the shaft end of the ETEK, thru the
armature, out the armature and housing slots (some percentage) and also out
the brush housing holes (if I have the cap with the holes in it...hmmm...?).
Anyway, with a 36v system, it uses under 3watts.
I don't know the CFM rating.
Here's one on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PAPST-48-volt-d-c-ball-bearing-fan-electronic-cooling_W0
QQitemZ7623211297QQcategoryZ53297QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's a pic of mine on my outboard motor:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492

I've run my motor at 150amps steady with near 36v input.
Air comes out warm, but not hot.
I think this cooling fan is adequate.
Best of luck.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

The Goat Hill we'll meet at is 300 Connecticut.  Potrero Hill.  San
Francisco.  Take Mariposa from 101 N. Or 18th street from the 280 freeway.
Connecticut is between the two freeways.  Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "SFEVA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San Francisco.


> Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is in town and we plan to go to Goat
> Hill Pizza Monday night for an EV get together.  (Christopher has had some
> success with his EV's).  Anyone interested?   I'll email back directions
and
> a time.  I'm assuming around 5:30 PM.   Any later and the line gets long.
> Lawrence Rhodes.......
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

OK if you all feel it's too early name a time and we'll comply.  Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: "SFEVA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San
Francisco.


> 5:30PM?!?
>
> Is there any way you could make that later?  There's just no way I could
> leave work at a reasonable time and make it all the way up to the city by
> 5:30.  (Presumably others from around the Bay Area would feel the same
way)
> And Goat Hill Pizza doesn't appear to be close to either CalTrain or BART
> stops, so I can't work on my way up there, either.
>
> I understand the line gets long, but, well, there's a good reason for
that!
>
> jorg
>
> On 6/11/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is in town and we plan to go to
Goat
> > Hill Pizza Monday night for an EV get together.  (Christopher has had
some
> > success with his EV's).  Anyone interested?   I'll email back directions
> > and
> > a time.  I'm assuming around 5:30 PM.   Any later and the line gets
long.
> > Lawrence Rhodes.......
> >
> >
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

The car I think we were talking about still had the muffler installed.  It
ran.  It was funky.  What can I say.  For some people that would be
acceptable.  Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show


> At 11:23 PM 6/10/2006, you wrote:
> >They do tend to offer lower voltage and lower speed cars, which is
> >easier on components. They did have one of their cars at the show,
> >and I did see it run -- you can see a short video I posted at
> ><http://9electric.evforge.net/evolks>. Their designs seem to be
> >optimized for low cost.
>
> I still have to question offering an entire turnkey car for $2,000 -
> chassis, electric drive, and conversion labor.  If it sounds too good
> to be true, it usually is.
>
> Shari Prange
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Amp-heads and Ghiaphiles, 
For anyone interested in progress on the Karmann Eclectric, updates have been 
posted to http://www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com.  In short, the body has 
been painted, suspension mods are nearing completion, and the body should get 
reacquainted with it's pan this weekend!
Cheers, 
Jay Donnaway
 
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. 
All on demand. Always Free.

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

What do employers and shopping malls provide, in cold places like 
Canada, Alaska, North & Mid West Northern States, for an outlet to 
employees and customers that need to use their electric engine block 
heater to prevent block freeze up ?
Do they charge their employees and customers for the electric used ?
Why couldn't employees and shopping malls have those same systems 
down in the lower 48 states ?
Is there a Federal Grant program for employers or shopping malls to 
install a electric vehicle charge port ?   I think there was some 
kind of a federal program, grant or rebate about 10 or 15 years ago.
We really need one at every interstate rest area, especially where 
there is a fast food resturant or gas station in addition to shopping 
malls and at every major employer if the all electric vehicle is 
going to have any chance at becoming appealing to the general public.
Menlo Park III,
Bill 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hello all,

I have installed the Trojan TE35 flooded lead acid batteries in my Soleq EVCort
which originally had Sonnenschein Gel Cells. The charger is integrated in the
car. So as not to have to buy and install a new charger into the car I was
wondering if this charger will be sufficient and with a little tweaking of the
end of charge voltage and perhaps the addition of some battery equalizer or
regulators I could also get optimum performance and life from them. 

The charger basically has a first bulk phase where the current is slowly ramped
up to a selectable limit of 10, 14 or 20 Amps DC (16, 20 or 30 AC). 

Then at approximately 2.25 volts it starts to ramp the current down until it
reaches an adjustable end of charge voltage. I currently set this to
2.35v/cell. 

It then stays there on a timer for about 3 hours.

My question is this. What is a good end of charge voltage that can be held for
3 hours on a daily basis without abusing the batteries?

This end of charge voltage can be adjusted upward to a little over 2.4
volts/cell. Should I do this periodically as an equalization charge? If so, how
often?

I was also contemplating either the Rudman Regulators (stand alone, as my
charger does not have a RegBus) or the Equalizers from
www.SmartSparkEnergy.com. 

What is the difference between them and would either of these be of benefit in
my situation and if so would I need to adjust the end of charge voltage to use
them properly?

Or, what is the **ideal** charging scheme for lead acid for optimum daily
performance and long life. I can then adjust my charging and equalizing as
close as possible to that ideal.

TIA,
Chet

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

6:30 at 300 Connecticut, San Francisco.   Goat Hill Pizza. They won't seat 
untill a whole group is finalized.  Don't be too late.  Lawrence Rhodes..
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jorg Brown 
  To: Lawrence Rhodes 
  Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 3:17 PM
  Subject: Re: EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San Francisco.


  Anytime between 6:30 and 7:30 is good for me.


  On 6/12/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
    OK if you all feel it's too early name a time and we'll comply.  Lawrence
    Rhodes.....
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
    Cc: "SFEVA" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
    <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:30 AM
    Subject: Re: EV talk with Christopher Zach at Goathill Pizza in San
    Francisco.


    > 5:30PM?!?
    >
    > Is there any way you could make that later?  There's just no way I could 
    > leave work at a reasonable time and make it all the way up to the city by
    > 5:30.  (Presumably others from around the Bay Area would feel the same
    way)
    > And Goat Hill Pizza doesn't appear to be close to either CalTrain or BART 
    > stops, so I can't work on my way up there, either.
    >
    > I understand the line gets long, but, well, there's a good reason for
    that!
    >
    > jorg
    >
    > On 6/11/06, Lawrence Rhodes < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
    > >
    > > Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is in town and we plan to go to 
    Goat
    > > Hill Pizza Monday night for an EV get together.  (Christopher has had
    some
    > > success with his EV's).  Anyone interested?   I'll email back directions
    > > and
    > > a time.  I'm assuming around 5:30 PM.   Any later and the line gets 
    long.
    > > Lawrence Rhodes.......
    > >
    > >
    >

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 12, 2006, at 10:33 AM, Rush wrote:
Is there a v tolerance that batteries, specifically Trojan 6v's,should have from battery to battery? How closely should the batteriesin a string match?
Is this a string you have or are you looking to buy a string.
If you have the pack then whatever you got will have to do. Its moredifficult to swap new batteries into an old string than to work withinthe old pack's limitations (within reason - a dead battery is still adead battery.) I've been able to live with batteries that disagree onwhat fully charged and rested is by 0.1 volt and disagree about twicethat at the end of a drive. It works so long as the weakest battery hasthe needed capacity.
If its a new string you want them as close as possible and as fresh aspossible. I'd be concerned about both voltage and the specific gravityof each cell. They as supposed to be related but... (low SOC in a cellof a charged battery is a bad sign no matter what the voltage)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I don't know it this will help with the discussion, but here is the voltage of 
the battery pack for a typical charge from my car with the same charger...

http://home.earthlink.net/~evtkw/Evcortcharge.pdf


-----Original Message-----
>From: Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jun 12, 2006 3:10 PM
>To: EV List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Subject: FLA Charging Scheme
>
>Hello all,
>
>I have installed the Trojan TE35 flooded lead acid batteries in my Soleq EVCort
>which originally had Sonnenschein Gel Cells. The charger is integrated in the
>car. So as not to have to buy and install a new charger into the car I was
>wondering if this charger will be sufficient and with a little tweaking of the
>end of charge voltage and perhaps the addition of some battery equalizer or
>regulators I could also get optimum performance and life from them. 
>
>The charger basically has a first bulk phase where the current is slowly ramped
>up to a selectable limit of 10, 14 or 20 Amps DC (16, 20 or 30 AC). 
>
>Then at approximately 2.25 volts it starts to ramp the current down until it
>reaches an adjustable end of charge voltage. I currently set this to
>2.35v/cell. 
>
>It then stays there on a timer for about 3 hours.
>
>My question is this. What is a good end of charge voltage that can be held for
>3 hours on a daily basis without abusing the batteries?
>
>This end of charge voltage can be adjusted upward to a little over 2.4
>volts/cell. Should I do this periodically as an equalization charge? If so, how
>often?
>
>I was also contemplating either the Rudman Regulators (stand alone, as my
>charger does not have a RegBus) or the Equalizers from
>www.SmartSparkEnergy.com. 
>
>What is the difference between them and would either of these be of benefit in
>my situation and if so would I need to adjust the end of charge voltage to use
>them properly?
>
>Or, what is the **ideal** charging scheme for lead acid for optimum daily
>performance and long life. I can then adjust my charging and equalizing as
>close as possible to that ideal.
>
>TIA,
>Chet
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>http://mail.yahoo.com 
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

--- Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't know it this will help with the discussion, but here is the voltage
> of the battery pack for a typical charge from my car with the same charger...
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~evtkw/Evcortcharge.pdf

Thanks, Tim. You wouldn't happen to have a current chart to overlap on that
would you? :-)

Chet

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--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Sorry - Unforntanely I can only measure voltage...  

Empirically, it seems to be constant current to the first inflection point at 3 
hrs, then some sort of ramped function, then float at 5.5 hrs.  

I think the adjustment on the charger moves shifts the point where it moves 
from the ramped function to float. 

-----Original Message-----
>From: Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jun 12, 2006 4:58 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: FLA Charging Scheme
>
>
>--- Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I don't know it this will help with the discussion, but here is the voltage
>> of the battery pack for a typical charge from my car with the same charger...
>> 
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~evtkw/Evcortcharge.pdf
>
>Thanks, Tim. You wouldn't happen to have a current chart to overlap on that
>would you? :-)
>
>Chet
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>http://mail.yahoo.com 
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hello experts,

I need help with a diagnosis.  My Jet Industries 1980 Ford courier
that was able to pump 400 amps (per the emeter) is
now only able to put out 182 amps (approximately).  Uphill, downhill
1st-4th gear, it makes no difference.  An engineer friend
suggested that the electrolytic caps are dying (have died).

Second symptom, in 2nd gear (15-30mph range), at about
2/3's in (say 27mph); there is a small "hiccup", as if the
controller turned OFF for a moment.

Any ideas?  any schematics?

thanks
jolly roger

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

Roger wrote:
Hello experts,
...able to pump 400 amps is now only able to put out 182 amps. Anengineer friendsuggested that the electrolytic caps are dying (have died). 2nd gear(15-30mph range), at about2/3's in (say 27mph); there is a small "hiccup", as if the controllerturned OFF for a moment.
Any ideas?  any schematics?
Yeah. Have you checked the brushes and com. on your motor? This soundslike a classic case of brushes barely making contact due to wear....justan idea.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I also saw "turnkey"... but I think the price is just for the kit. $1500 for
a contact controller, $2000 for a basic controller at 48V, or at $2500, an
Alltrax for 72V.

If I'm understanding it correctly, "turnkey" means all you need to convert
the VW or Metro yourself, less the rolling chassis, cables, batteries,
battery boxes, misc gear, and labor. I also don't see that a charger is
included. What you do get (http://www.e-volks.com/about.html3.html) is a
(surplus/new) motor, clamps, and controller.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show

> At 11:23 PM 6/10/2006, you wrote:
> >They do tend to offer lower voltage and lower speed cars, which is
> >easier on components. They did have one of their cars at the show,
> >and I did see it run -- you can see a short video I posted at
> ><http://9electric.evforge.net/evolks>. Their designs seem to be
> >optimized for low cost.
>
> I still have to question offering an entire turnkey car for $2,000 -
> chassis, electric drive, and conversion labor.  If it sounds too good
> to be true, it usually is.
>
> Shari Prange
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

It could be the controller, but I'd start by looking at the motor...
especially the brushes. (Based on the "hiccup.")

Along the same lines (resistance) have you also checked all your
connections? A corroded connection on any part could be reducing your
E-throughput, I'd think, making your controller think it's running at a
lower voltage (hiccup) and reducing W's to the system? (On my friend's toy,
we found a bad crimp on one connector... another time a bad/corroded
connector on one of mine.)

I'd check this before suspecting a very expensive component as being in need
of replacement. (Then again, I'm cheap.)

...just my thoughts...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 5:38 PM
Subject: sick curtis in jet industries FOrd courier


> Hello experts,
>
> I need help with a diagnosis.  My Jet Industries 1980 Ford courier
> that was able to pump 400 amps (per the emeter) is
> now only able to put out 182 amps (approximately).  Uphill, downhill
> 1st-4th gear, it makes no difference.  An engineer friend
> suggested that the electrolytic caps are dying (have died).
>
> Second symptom, in 2nd gear (15-30mph range), at about
> 2/3's in (say 27mph); there is a small "hiccup", as if the
> controller turned OFF for a moment.

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Well said Rush! It was good to see you. It is fun to go watch Dennis show
how routine and consistent an EV dragster can run against the gassers.
Dennis has it dialed in so well that between runs he has time to plan the
nights racing and shoot the breeze with us - after it's done charging!
An old racer once told me "if your wrenching 5 min before an event -
you've got problems"-not the CE V.  And when spectators oogle the car -
there is nothing hot to burn themselves on =).

The interesting part is that today the CE V is the only EV at these NHRA
events, but someday I am sure, there will be many - especially after it
gets national attention. 
I will try to make it to Speedworld this Saturday - I hope some others
from the phoenix EAA can make it ;), it is a big week end - so come and
watch history happen!
Jimmy  

> > From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
> 
> I was there! 
> 
> 2 of us from the Tucson EV club went up to see Dennis run.
> 
> When we got to his pit, Dennis was measuring his motor temp. He uses a
> Fluke laser, it is for reference only,  
>> 
> Dennis 'dials in' what he thinks his time will down the 1/4 mile. Last
> night it was in the 11.98 second range (about 119 mph). He ran 3 trials,
> practice runs. On his 4ththun, the competition run, his reaction time at
> the start was .003 of a second slower than the dragster he was racing
> against. So this kind of racing is not just who is fastest, it is
> basically who knows his car the best to predict the time down the track
> combined with the best reaction time off the line. At least that is the
> way I understand it... For a better explanation of 'Dialing in" go to
> hthttp/dmdmlectrics.com/, scroll down to the bottom and there is a whole
> section on Dennis and 'Bracket Racing'. He really enjoys going up
> against the fuel dragsters, showing them that his batteries work... and
> are better!  Here is another explanation of Bracket racing
> hthttp/wwwwwhnhraom/basics/index.hthtmlHe has a practice tree
> hthttp/wwwwwoportatreeom/race_eliminator.hthtmlhat he uses all the time,
> at home, driving !
>  etc,  to practice his reaction time.
> 
> When he comes back from a run he recharges his pack with a Miller
> welding generator in his trailer. He plugs in the Anderson 350
> connector, puts in about 27 amps and in about 5 min the pack is back up.
His tires are from Goodyear
> (sponsored) and the tire technicians told him that the more you smoke
> the tires, the more the tire deteriorates. All you hear when he does his
> burn out is a high pitched whine, just like the initial sound of a
> Curtis 1231 controller. 
> His website is
> hthttp/wwwwwucurrenteliminatoret/home/, there is more info about the CE
> there.
> Jimmy from the Phoenix club was also there (hthttp/dmdmlectrics.com/ is
> his website). While Dennis took a nap in his trailer between trials, we
> talked about the history of racing and everything else. He said that he
> started racing in the early nineties. He heard that PIPIRas going to
> have 'Electric 500' races and that one of the sponsors was GE.  Those
> races must have been astounding, can you imagine 20 or so cars circling
> a track with no noise?
> 
> He's up at SpSpeedworldext weekend for another points race in his quest
> for the championship of DiDivison, wouldn't that be great - an EV as the
> best NHNHRAivision 7 dragster? 
> 
> Anybody going to go and see him win?
> 
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> wwwwwrironandwoodrg
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message --- Regulators are intended to help a series string of batteries, or helpcompensate for a dumb charger, or both.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but why would you put a regulator on asingle battery that's being charged by a smart charger?
On Jun 12, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Mark Fisher wrote:
All (Lee especially, or course):

When looking at the data sheet on:

http://soneil.com/Completesets/2403SR(REV12).14-Jul-03.pdf
I am wondering what the interaction would be if the batteries are alsosporting shunt-type balancers.
The charger will build up voltage at a steady current to 14.4V /battery. Now, at 14.4V, the 13.6 volt zeners will be diverting .8Vthrough the PR2 lamp. Does this mean about .42A?
According to the datasheet, the Soneil monitors current as well asvoltage. At a steady 14.4V / battery, when the current drops to .15A,it drops the target voltage to 13.8V / battery, and maintains this asthe target float voltage
It appears that with the shunts added to the batteries, the Soneilswont drop back to the float voltage, but will continue providing 14.4to each battery, while the batteries will continue to see 13.6 (underzener regulation).
Am I thinking straight?

MarkF
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

The places here in Anchorage that have block heater outlets don't usually
charge employees, or customers, but there really aren't that many here.
Further north up in Fairbanks block heater outlets are all over.  Places
where there aren't you usually see rigs out side running.  If the outlets
are available I get the feeling employers would be willing to allow
employees charge, probably at no charge :-).

If they don't have outlets however I don't see them going to a lot of
expense to provide them.  Power companies should wire one to every parking
meter.  Pay to park, pay to charge, still cheaper than gas.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 1:40 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Auto Engine Block Heater Systems


What do employers and shopping malls provide, in cold places like
Canada, Alaska, North & Mid West Northern States, for an outlet to
employees and customers that need to use their electric engine block
heater to prevent block freeze up ?
Do they charge their employees and customers for the electric used ?
Why couldn't employees and shopping malls have those same systems
down in the lower 48 states ?
Is there a Federal Grant program for employers or shopping malls to
install a electric vehicle charge port ?   I think there was some
kind of a federal program, grant or rebate about 10 or 15 years ago.
We really need one at every interstate rest area, especially where
there is a fast food resturant or gas station in addition to shopping
malls and at every major employer if the all electric vehicle is
going to have any chance at becoming appealing to the general public.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


________________________________________________________________________
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Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---
Michael Perry wrote:
I also saw "turnkey"... but I think the price is just for the kit. $1500 for
a contact controller, $2000 for a basic controller at 48V, or at $2500, an
Alltrax for 72V.

If I'm understanding it correctly, "turnkey" means all you need to convert
the VW or Metro yourself, less the rolling chassis, cables, batteries,
battery boxes, misc gear, and labor. I also don't see that a charger is
included. What you do get (http://www.e-volks.com/about.html3.html) is a
(surplus/new) motor, clamps, and controller.
Their site is indeed hard to read.  But, from the link above:
The complete kit components are as follows: *Adapter Plate for vehicle,*Shaft Coupler - Motor to Flywheel, *15 KW 8" dia. Shunt Motor, *HighCurrent Switch Box, *20 ft of #2/0 ga. Wire Cable, *Contactor- KilovacEV200 (2000 amp rupture 200 amp continuous), *0-150 VDC Volt Meter,*0-500 Amp Meter, *50mv - 500 Amp Shunt, *8 - High Current RingTerminals, *16 - Battery Cable Terminals, *Fuse - 500 amp slow blow,*Battery Charger - 5-10 amp (adjustable voltage 12-72 VDC) Note: Forkits #2 and #3, the Switch Box is replaced with a 0-5k Throttle Box andController.
Battery charger is included.  If you look in their catalog:

http://www.e-volks.com/catalog.0.2.html
You see that it is a Schumacher charger that is not a smart charger.They include a timer.Also reading, their "turnkey EV" for $2495 is a Metro or like car withtheir Kit #1 - 36v, no controller. This seems pretty doable - usedMetros are available under $1k, with their low cost motor, nocontroller, and 6 Stowaways from Sam's club, they are making money atthat price.
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

    What a fantastic conversion! Looking at the photos sure brings
back a lot of memories of my conversion. It's getting to be so long
ago that it's great to be reminded of all the fun. I can't wait to hear
more about how things turn out.

Best of luck!
and as Otmar sez....have fun!
John


> Amp-heads and Ghiaphiles,
> For anyone interested in progress on the Karmann Eclectric, updates have been 
> posted to
http://www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com.  In short, the body has been painted, 
suspension mods are
nearing completion, and the body should get reacquainted with it's pan this 
weekend!
> Cheers,
> Jay Donnaway
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. 
> All on demand.
Always Free.
>

--- End Message ---

EV digest 5565

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