EV Digest 5570
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: E-Volks - why all the hostility?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: watthour meter AC side
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: E-Volks - why all the hostility?
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: E-Volks - why all the hostility?
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: E-Volks - why all the hostility?
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV list wierdness; was: watthour meter AC side
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Ev volks
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re-rating motors
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motor sizing.
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Field Weakening
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Logisystems 156vdc controllers.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Regen - as a 'brake'
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Regen - as a 'brake'
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Regen - as a 'brake'
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: watthour meter AC side
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Minor ground fault and isolation xformer
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVLN(Nissan's Pivoting Pivo EV)
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Motor sizing.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) The PROPER - and inexpensive - DC/DC Converter
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) More DC/DC Questions
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: E-Volks - why all the hostility?
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Minor ground fault and isolation xformer
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Motor sizing.
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: The PROPER - and inexpensive - DC/DC Converter
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Hall Effect pedal
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Regen - as a 'brake'
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Hall Effect pedal
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Regen - as a 'brake'
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Is the Ranger conversion by a listee?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30) Re: EXAR on Ebay
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Since I started the thread, maybe I should check in here.
Anything that gets folks driving more EVs is great, but if newbies
get pissed at the whole idea because of their "lowest common
denominator" kits, it's the opposite effect of a passing mention in the media.
I agree.
I understand that there's also been a history of snake oil
operations in the EV past, and rising gas prices are sure to bring
more out of the woodwork.
True again.
I don't think the media cares one way or another. I've never seen
an article that says builder Bob down the street converted a car to
electric "and it sucks".
I have. Too many. They don't come out and say it sucks, it's more
like "Snicker, snicker, look at the freak and this contraption he
actually drives."
What set me off was a newbie on the phone. Like a huge number of
newbies, he was NOT on this list, or with an EV club, or had any
connection with knowledgeable EVers. He had seen the EV Wilderness
$2000 turnkey car, and could not understand the difference between
the technology in it and what we sell. To him, "parts is parts", and
the only difference he saw was a price tag. I predict he will buy
one, and he will be disappointed, and all his friends will know that
"EVs don't work".
When people come to us looking for a lower cost or lower performance
setup than we focus on, I will first try to make sure their
expectations are realistic, then direct them to some other source I
think can better meet their needs. But I dislike seeing people led
into inappropriate purchases (at either end of the price/performance
spectrum), and I dislike people coming away with the idea that this
low end type of vehicle represents the current typical technology and
performance. I have no problem with an informed purchase for an
appropriate use.
And I STILL don't believe you can turn out a quality conversion for
$2,000 turnkey, no matter how cheap your components are. This kind
of pricing sends up a great big red flare to me. It's hard just to
find a donor chassis in good shape and bring little details like, oh,
brakes for instance up to spec for $2,000. And I know how much time
a quality conversion takes (meaning things like properly secured
batteries, which did not look like the case in the EV Wilderness
photos I saw, and properly done wiring). If you spend 80
person-hours on a conversion (which is moving pretty briskly if you
are including all fabrication time) and you only charge out your time
at $5.00/hour (which you can't hire a teenager to mow your lawn for)
that's $400 right there.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This seems to be the first answer I've found that will handle 240 Volts and
OVER 20 Amps.
The price is a bit high, but not unreasonable at ($234+$39)
The standard electricity meters fitted to every property in the UK are
good for 240V and 100A. They cost about 30-40 GBP. Less for the
older mechanical dial ones, available as surplus now.
I fit these in solar installations as export meters.
However, that's for our proper 240V mains, not your inferior
centre-tapped arrangement (joking, joking!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have attempted to build low cost EV's. Based on my experience, I haven't
been able to build anything roadworthy for less than $4200 (parts alone) and
that is all used components bought at pennies on the dollar.
Steve
Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Since I started the thread, maybe I should check in here.
>Anything that gets folks driving more EVs is great, but if newbies
>get pissed at the whole idea because of their "lowest common
>denominator" kits, it's the opposite effect of a passing mention in the media.
I agree.
>I understand that there's also been a history of snake oil
>operations in the EV past, and rising gas prices are sure to bring
>more out of the woodwork.
True again.
>I don't think the media cares one way or another. I've never seen
>an article that says builder Bob down the street converted a car to
>electric "and it sucks".
I have. Too many. They don't come out and say it sucks, it's more
like "Snicker, snicker, look at the freak and this contraption he
actually drives."
What set me off was a newbie on the phone. Like a huge number of
newbies, he was NOT on this list, or with an EV club, or had any
connection with knowledgeable EVers. He had seen the EV Wilderness
$2000 turnkey car, and could not understand the difference between
the technology in it and what we sell. To him, "parts is parts", and
the only difference he saw was a price tag. I predict he will buy
one, and he will be disappointed, and all his friends will know that
"EVs don't work".
When people come to us looking for a lower cost or lower performance
setup than we focus on, I will first try to make sure their
expectations are realistic, then direct them to some other source I
think can better meet their needs. But I dislike seeing people led
into inappropriate purchases (at either end of the price/performance
spectrum), and I dislike people coming away with the idea that this
low end type of vehicle represents the current typical technology and
performance. I have no problem with an informed purchase for an
appropriate use.
And I STILL don't believe you can turn out a quality conversion for
$2,000 turnkey, no matter how cheap your components are. This kind
of pricing sends up a great big red flare to me. It's hard just to
find a donor chassis in good shape and bring little details like, oh,
brakes for instance up to spec for $2,000. And I know how much time
a quality conversion takes (meaning things like properly secured
batteries, which did not look like the case in the EV Wilderness
photos I saw, and properly done wiring). If you spend 80
person-hours on a conversion (which is moving pretty briskly if you
are including all fabrication time) and you only charge out your time
at $5.00/hour (which you can't hire a teenager to mow your lawn for)
that's $400 right there.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I find the thread on e-volks interesting.
>
> Here is a company that is providing an accessible EV conversion -
> meaning easy to do, easy to buy. Sure, it isn't the EVDL's approved
> solution of a million volts/dollars of batteries, an 8 inch ADC and a
> Zilla and Rudman Regs and charger - but it 1) brings more people to EVs
> than $9000 kits and 2) appears to work.
Apparently this is the same company as Wilderness Energy. They were saying
they were building their own bike kits. (They were importing from China.)
Though the kits were the cheap end of quality, a lot of folks felt they
got a good deal for what they spent.
I figure it's about the same w/ the car conversions they provide. Cheap
and simple... probably more reliable than the megabuck presentations. <g>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Having a skeptical and critical attitude toward relatively new
> and unknown players sounds like a normal initial reaction; there's no
> reason why that should prevent anyone from changing their mind when
> presented with evidence to the contrary.
> Claudio
If I recall, these guys have been around at least 8 years, selling EV
conversions.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The EV list gets sideways every few weeks; I have no clue why. The phenomenon
of posts disappearing has happened to me; long delay in posts being
distributed, ditto. (It's always kind of disconcerting when posts appear which
are scrambled so that some which were written first are posted last, and vice
versa.) I know the list has been through the wars for many years, and there's
reluctance for a variety of valid reasons to change, but internet BB technology
has come a long way since the list attained it's current format, and it could
be a lot clearer, more reliable, and more functional than it is, based on what
I see other people doing. (And no, like everyone else, I'm not volunteering to
do the work to change it, even if I knew how to.)
But this is where the action's at, and it's very valuable to have one main
source of information (with all the heavy hitters contributing on a regular
basis) so I guess we'll all just grin and bear the intermittent glitches.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this the 2500 dollar conversion bought straight from E Volks? I heard it
still had the muffler installed. It runs and does what you want? Sounds
good to me. Can you give the details of this vehicle and the modifications
you have had to do to keep it running. Thanks for any details of your E
Volks vehicle. LR....
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Ev volks
> My needs were/are for an affordable LOW SPEED vehicle to travel to
> and arround town. I decided on an electric vehicle but wanted it to
> be street legal and not an NEV or LEV or golf cart.
>
> The vehicle is not pristine .... http://tinyurl.com/oqp3g
>
> but then my other car is a 2 door metro (45mpg) that I paid $300
> for
>
> The road (paved and flat) to town is 45mph .. 25mph in town. I
> wanted 4 doors for the kids. I already have a E-bike
> http://tinyurl.com/oqw96 running at 48 volts
>
> but wanted a more weather proof vehicle and 4 passenger.
> And I have a 48 volt solar set up.... http://tinyurl.com/ep4d9
>
> The other day I hooked a trailer to it and hauled some sheets of
> plywood home.
>
> Someday I may go to 60 or 72 volts but for now 45mph and range of 25
> miles is just right.
>
> So if someone wanted to spend $180 for a surplus motor and figure
> out the adapter, the rest of the parts are readily available
>
> I have no affiliation with e-volks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > And claiming 70mph range on a Vee-dub with 70 mile range - thats
> a little
> > > over the top don't you'all think?
> > >
> > > Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but whats going on?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > One of our members just bought one of the cars & upgraded to 48V.
> I'll
> > wait and see how his does before deciding.
> >
> > I think that's an either/or case, with the 72V, and probably using
> 6 or 8V
> > batts? Elsewhere he states he gets 3 to 5 miles per battery. I've
> seen his
> > stuff in other groups and it seems to work.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I did this on my Cushman, put in a 36V motor instead of 72V for full
power to 45mph instead of field weakening a 72V motor like the original ZEV
version was. I'm not sure if it's more efficient though. Maybe someone has
some real world data.
Best Regards,
Mark
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re-rating motors Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:26:30 -0700 Plain
Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
In looking at Field weakening I came across this paper
http://power.ece.uiuc.edu/chapman/papers/IEMDC%202003%202.pdf from the Power
and Energy Systems at the Univ of Illinois. The conclusion states - "The
mass and cost of the drive motor for traction applications can be reduced by
re-rating the machine as opposed to field weakening. The process takes
advantage of the wide frequency capability of an electronic drive to deliver
full output torque over an extended range. A 350% increase in power output
over the nameplate rating was achieved on a stock 10HP, 60Hz, induction
machine without violating any ratings. The machine was able to replace and
internal combustion engine, and provided high power to weight ratio in an
inexpensive air-cooled system" A 350% increase by re-rating the motor?
If I read it correctly all they are talking about is rearranging the stator
winding taps on a 3 ph motor to provide a low voltage delta connection and
using a
source to provide 200v at 300 Hz. Anybody with a little more elec/motor
knowledge care to comment on this? Rush Tucson AZ www.ironandwood.org
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--- Begin Message ---
I had been thinking ford 9", yes. I am hoping that by emulating John
and Matt I can get something similar to their results. I am keeping my
options open though, my understanding is that the Ford 9 is great for
straight lines, but I am not so sure about handling. The 300ZX rear
sounds like it might be nice for that, and would love to hear other
suggestions.
But that wasn't the only reason for going with a custom subframe. I
wanted to install the batts way down low a la GM Autonomy/Hy-Wire
skate-board design (also I was later told this is how the Tango gets
its amazing handling).
Also, this opens up the possibility of having multiple bodies for one
subframe. Need to take stuff to the dump? Pop on the pickup style
body. Going to the beach? Pop on a open air body with watercraft style
seats and gagues, etc (although I will be happy if I get the thing to
run with just the one body).
-Mike
On 6/14/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you use a diff from a NISSAN 300zx or some other higher powered rear
wheel drive with independent rear (ford taurus) You can use the existing
fiero suspension and cradle because you can rigidly mount the diff and
adapt just the half shafts. This may be a lot easier than a solid rear
axle. Unless I miss-understood and you are wanting a chopped ford 9" for
dragging.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When Dennis was showing us his CurrentEliminator features, one of them was the
field weakening on his motor. You could see part of it, most of it was under a
cowling that protected the motor. It looked pretty simple, just some bands
across 2 of the motor terminals. His comm was bright and clean so there was no
arcing from the weakening and he has been using it for years.
And since RIch posted the comment about field weakening, I was wondering how it
is achieved. I've done a little web research and found a picture at
http://www.railway-technical.com/field.gif
Is the shunt switch necessary? How does one go about figuring the resistance?
From what I could see on the CE it looked like it was just a wide band of metal
(copper?) that snaked back and forth a couple times between the motor
terminals.
There is also a patent http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4378517.pdf, that
incorporates field weakening, amount other things. The patent states - "The
field weakening circuit comprises a transistor in series with a resistor. The
base of the transistor receives a series of pulses such that the transistor is
alternately switched fully on land fully off. the mean impedance of the filed
weakening circuit defined by the transistor and resistor can be controlled down
to a minimum defined by the resistance of resistor by controlling the
mark/space ration of the pulses applied to the base of the transistor" - it
seams pretty simple...
Has anybody done any experimentation with a 9" ADC motor? Taking Dennis's CE as
an example, once the 'formula' is found it seems as if there is basically no
upkeep on it.
Thanks for the input,
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.logisystemscontrollers.net/logisystems_004.htm
I heard from Jim that Logisystems is engineering a 156vdc controller at
around 800 amps. It might be good to keep abreast of the developments
there. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A lot of things are great - in theory. Fact of the matter is, that one has
to swim with the stream in traffic. Sure, I try to coast as much as
possible, but it doesn't mean I have to use the brakes pretty often.
And - by the way: Nobody so far has been able to provide a system (or
links, schematics) for some kind of an regen-alternator. And the local
alternator shop was hopelessly unable to provide any help.
I may have to get one of those Volks-EV solutions as the 'better' systems
lack the simple method of converting unneeded motion energy into
electrical energy.
Michaela
> On 5/22/06, Stefan T. Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Michael Perry wrote:
>> > I agree with you there, Peekay. Most folks don't coast their cars. I
>> sort of
>> > got in the habit of doing that in my ICE, though, where possible. It's
>> > amazing how far a car will coast. I don't kid myself that it's saving
>> any
>> > money coasting, but it's sort of a challenge. <g>
>>
>> I wouldn't say that... if you coast one quarter of the time driving
>> around town (easy enough once you get into the habit), you're reducing
>> mileage on the transmission by that amount. And those things have
>> specific lifetimes.
>
>
> It's more than that.
>
> I was curious late one night (early the next morning, really) about this,
> and I drove about 40 miles doing nothing but accelerating up to 70, and
> then
> putting the car into neutral and coasting with the engine off until it got
> back down to 50 again. It boosted my mileage quite a bit - 26 mpg instead
> of 22. (The car had a mileage-so-far feature that I reset prior to trying
> all this)
>
> Of course, the only reason I could do that was because there were no other
> cars on the road. Had I done it during normal hours, I'm sure I'd have
> been
> honked off the road.
>
> Also, there are people who get a kick out of driving their Prius so they
> average more than 100mpg. It's much the same: you accelerate for a
> little,
> then coast for a long time, then accelerate a little, etc etc. It's
> described as "Pulse and Glide", the article is at:
>
> http://hybridcars.about.com/od/news/a/100mpgrecord.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
have not tried this yet but soon as I get a motor i plan on playing with it.
http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/regen/index.html
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Regen - as a 'brake'
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:53:15 -0500 (CDT)
A lot of things are great - in theory. Fact of the matter is, that one has
to swim with the stream in traffic. Sure, I try to coast as much as
possible, but it doesn't mean I have to use the brakes pretty often.
And - by the way: Nobody so far has been able to provide a system (or
links, schematics) for some kind of an regen-alternator. And the local
alternator shop was hopelessly unable to provide any help.
I may have to get one of those Volks-EV solutions as the 'better' systems
lack the simple method of converting unneeded motion energy into
electrical energy.
Michaela
> On 5/22/06, Stefan T. Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Michael Perry wrote:
>> > I agree with you there, Peekay. Most folks don't coast their cars. I
>> sort of
>> > got in the habit of doing that in my ICE, though, where possible.
It's
>> > amazing how far a car will coast. I don't kid myself that it's saving
>> any
>> > money coasting, but it's sort of a challenge. <g>
>>
>> I wouldn't say that... if you coast one quarter of the time driving
>> around town (easy enough once you get into the habit), you're reducing
>> mileage on the transmission by that amount. And those things have
>> specific lifetimes.
>
>
> It's more than that.
>
> I was curious late one night (early the next morning, really) about
this,
> and I drove about 40 miles doing nothing but accelerating up to 70, and
> then
> putting the car into neutral and coasting with the engine off until it
got
> back down to 50 again. It boosted my mileage quite a bit - 26 mpg
instead
> of 22. (The car had a mileage-so-far feature that I reset prior to
trying
> all this)
>
> Of course, the only reason I could do that was because there were no
other
> cars on the road. Had I done it during normal hours, I'm sure I'd have
> been
> honked off the road.
>
> Also, there are people who get a kick out of driving their Prius so they
> average more than 100mpg. It's much the same: you accelerate for a
> little,
> then coast for a long time, then accelerate a little, etc etc. It's
> described as "Pulse and Glide", the article is at:
>
> http://hybridcars.about.com/od/news/a/100mpgrecord.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
> And - by the way: Nobody so far has been able to provide a system (or
> links, schematics) for some kind of an regen-alternator. And the local
> alternator shop was hopelessly unable to provide any help.
Sorry, it has taken me a while to dredge up the name of a potential
alternator solution from the depths of my memory. I knew I'd come
across something suitable before, but couldn't remember the name to
search it up. Check out:
<http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm>
I thought they once offered DC output versions also, but don't see any
now...
You're looking at $850 for 110VAC 3500W, $930 for 220VAC 3500W, or $1025
for 110VAC 4500W. These are the prices for a complete kit with
brackets, etc. Add on another $300 if you want a voltage regulator for
110VAC or 220VAC.
<http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/prices.htm>
Something like their Power Mite PM220 alternator (isolated ground,
220VAC out @ 15A, 3500W max or 2500W continuous) feeding a PFCxx charger
ought to give as close to an off the shelf solution as you will find.
Just crank the current knob on the PFCxx up or down to increase/decrease
the amount of regen desired.
They even offer a kit with brackets, etc., though you would most likely
have to modify them or fabricate your own since EVs tend to have nothing
like the expected accessory mounting points of an ICE.
You might even get by as simply as throwing a full bridge rectifier
between the battery and output of a 120V Power Mite (bad boy charger)
and just varying the field strength to vary the amount of regen. The
wide AC input range of the PFCxx charger would allow that combination to
offer regen over a much wider range of speed, but if you aren't already
running a PFCxx charger purchasing one would increase the cost of the
regen system by a couple grand.
Some people would fuss with trying to use a magnetic clutch so the regen
alternator spins only when regenning; I wouldn't bother. Just power the
field when regen is desired and let the alternator spin freely
otherwise.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben, all,
BFratto[at]sybronchemicals[dot]com wrote:
This seems to be the first answer I've found that will handle 240
Volts and OVER 20 Amps.
What do you mean? It should be really easy to get an AC kWh meter that
does 240 Volts and 20+ Amps; as such meters are used on practically
every house's mains.
Most of these meters can handle 100-200 Amps or more depending on
size... and you should be able to find them inexpensively on Ebay.
Hope that helps,
--
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://go.DriveEV.com/
http://www.ACEAA.org/
--------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charging the truck as of late has been causing the house GFCI to trip.
Mildly annoying. I have removed the ground from truck-house (truck has
it's own GFCI prior to anything anyway) and checking voltage between
frame and house ground I find about 60 volts AC and 1.2ma of current.
Is this enough to trip a normal GFCI?
At the same time, I am now running flooded batteries and should probably
put an isolation xformer on the truck. Who makes a good 240-208
isolation transformer and where can I get one (might as well do two
birds, one stone)?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's even stranger to see the video of the Pivo...
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=nissan+pivo
or more directly...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7756020189597681609
On 11/16/05, bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
EVLN(Nissan's Pivoting Pivo EV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theday.com/eng/web/news/re.aspx?re=4B35C2D8-009E-4F72-910F-F0C0D334097E
Featured in Wheels
No More Backing Up With Nissan's Experimental Pivoting Car
Itsuo Inouye
Photographers take photos of Nissan Motor Co.'s concept car Pivo
during a press unveiling at the Japanese automaker's showroom in
Tokyo's Ginza shopping district Friday, Sept. 30, 2005. For
drivers who find backing up out of tight parking spots a hassle,
Pivo, a three-seater electric car that looks like a big egg on
wheels, revolves 360 degrees to make parking a cinch, you never
need to back up. Pivo's steering, wheels and other parts are
controlled electronically by wireless, or electronic signals,
doing away with mechanical links between the cabin and the
vehicle's chassis, the base on which cars are built that hooks up
wheels and other parts. Shizuo Kambayashi
Models pose inside Nissan Motor Co.'s concept car Pivo during a
press preview in Tokyo Wednesday, Sept. 28, 2005. For drivers who
find backing up out of tight parking spots a hassle, Pivo, a
three-seater electric car that looks like a big egg on wheels,
revolves 360 degrees to make parking a cinch, you never need to
back up. Pivo's steering, wheels and other parts are controlled
electronically by wireless, or electronic signals, doing away
with mechanical links between the cabin and the vehicle's
chassis, the base on which cars are built that hooks up wheels
and other parts. By YURI KAGEYAMA Published on 11/5/2005
Tokyo - For drivers who find backing out of tight parking spots a
hassle, Nissan has an answer: An egg-shaped car whose body pivots
360 degrees so that its rear end becomes the front.
The Pivo, shown recently at a Tokyo Nissan showroom, is still an
experimental model and probably won't go on sale publicly for
several years. It is a three-seater electric car that looks like
a big egg on wheels. Its body revolves in a complete circle while
its wheels stay put.
Such moves are possible because Pivo's steering, wheels and other
parts are controlled electronically by wireless, or electronic
signals, not mechanical links between the cabin and the vehicle's
chassis.
This is a cute car for people who have problems parking," said
Nissan Motor Co. chief designer Masato Inoue.
Pivo, also planned for display at the Tokyo auto show opening
next month, highlights other technologies, including a system
that allows the driver to control devices inside the car simply
by raising his or her fingers off the steering wheel.
That's done through a camera embedded in the steering wheel that
senses heat. Lifting one finger might turn on the radio. Two
fingers might set car navigation equipment.
The technology works much like voice-recognition capabilities
already available in some advanced cars, but Tokyo-based Nissan
says some people prefer finger-pointing to talking to yourself.
Pivo also allows the driver to see blind spots via cameras
attached to the outside of the car.
Inoue says it's possible to design a gasoline-engine vehicles
that spins in the same way if electronic controls are approved
for traffic safety. But they're unlikely to have the round look
of Pivo because a conventional engine requires more room than an
electric motor.
(c) The Day Publishing Co., 2005 1-866-846-9099
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Er, don't know why I said taurus, it was on my mind i guess, I bought
one for my aunt that just passed away. I meant to say T-bird, as in the
one that was in the back yard of a particular list member, collecting
dust. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I HAVE the EV-Grin.... Enjoying my 48 volt ( X - 125cc Yamaha Scooter)
4 Hawkers... Now I am working out the 12v. system. Have a small Gell
battery as a float. Total LOAD lights, signals Horn, Brake Lites, main
contactor coil, is less than 11 amps.
Looking at this TYCO.. Model EUE200/120 works out to about 16amps.
Specs at:
http://www.power.tycoelectronics.com/BinaryGet.aspx?ID=9734645d-e42e-4139-ae3e-b64bd7648040
But the question IS: is there a better DC/DC, or less expensive, with
an output round 12 to 15 amps ? ? ?
Again.... Basic NEEDS 48VDC input, 12VDC output, 11-15Amps
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is another UNIT from TRC Electronics. Only 8 amps, but the little
battery should be able to make up the rest.
What do you guys think ??
Any one know what some of the 48v commercial scooters have been using'
Here is the Spec sheet on the TRC unit:
http://www.trcelectronics.com/Cosel/cbs1004812.shtml
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Michael,
I wrote:
> > Having a skeptical and critical attitude toward relatively new
> > and unknown players sounds like a normal initial reaction;
Michael Perry writes:
> If I recall, these guys have been around at least 8 years, selling EV
> conversions.
Be that as it may, just to clarify my point was that they are "relatively new
and unknown" to many who participated in the thread (or so I assumed). I'm in
full agreement with your "wait and see" approach.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Charging the truck as of late has been causing the house GFCI
> to trip.
> Mildly annoying. I have removed the ground from truck-house
> (truck has it's own GFCI prior to anything anyway) and checking
> voltage between frame and house ground I find about 60 volts AC
> and 1.2ma of current.
>
> Is this enough to trip a normal GFCI?
Some GFCIs are more sensitive to the spectrum/frequency of the leakage
current than others. With a switchmode charger, the leakage current may
have higher frequency components that the GFCI is more sensitive to,
such that it will trip at a lower current value than expected.
This is usually more of an issue for GFCIs that are not built into a
breaker, but there could be some sensitive GFCI breakers out there
too...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just waiting for someone to come rescue it...
~~If you sometimes get the sudden urge to run around naked,
drink some Windex: It will keep you from streaking.~~
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Motor sizing.
Er, don't know why I said taurus, it was on my mind i guess, I bought
one for my aunt that just passed away. I meant to say T-bird, as in the
one that was in the back yard of a particular list member, collecting
dust. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if it's cheaper or better but:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006061520204305&item=6-990&catname=
or
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006061520204305&item=6-989&catname=
Good Luck.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: The PROPER - and inexpensive - DC/DC Converter
> I HAVE the EV-Grin.... Enjoying my 48 volt ( X - 125cc Yamaha Scooter)
>
> 4 Hawkers... Now I am working out the 12v. system. Have a small Gell
> battery as a float. Total LOAD lights, signals Horn, Brake Lites, main
> contactor coil, is less than 11 amps.
>
> Looking at this TYCO.. Model EUE200/120 works out to about 16amps.
> Specs at:
>
http://www.power.tycoelectronics.com/BinaryGet.aspx?ID=9734645d-e42e-4139-ae3e-b64bd7648040
>
> But the question IS: is there a better DC/DC, or less expensive, with
> an output round 12 to 15 amps ? ? ?
>
> Again.... Basic NEEDS 48VDC input, 12VDC output, 11-15Amps
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/364 - Release Date: 6/14/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar,
Can the Hall Effect pedal be used with a Curtis 1231 in place of a regular pot
box?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
very helpful info
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 4:29 AM
Subject: RE: Regen - as a 'brake'
> Michaela Merz wrote:
>
> > And - by the way: Nobody so far has been able to provide a system (or
> > links, schematics) for some kind of an regen-alternator. And the local
> > alternator shop was hopelessly unable to provide any help.
>
> Sorry, it has taken me a while to dredge up the name of a potential
> alternator solution from the depths of my memory. I knew I'd come
> across something suitable before, but couldn't remember the name to
> search it up. Check out:
>
> <http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm>
>
> I thought they once offered DC output versions also, but don't see any
> now...
>
> You're looking at $850 for 110VAC 3500W, $930 for 220VAC 3500W, or $1025
> for 110VAC 4500W. These are the prices for a complete kit with
> brackets, etc. Add on another $300 if you want a voltage regulator for
> 110VAC or 220VAC.
>
> <http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/prices.htm>
>
> Something like their Power Mite PM220 alternator (isolated ground,
> 220VAC out @ 15A, 3500W max or 2500W continuous) feeding a PFCxx charger
> ought to give as close to an off the shelf solution as you will find.
> Just crank the current knob on the PFCxx up or down to increase/decrease
> the amount of regen desired.
>
> They even offer a kit with brackets, etc., though you would most likely
> have to modify them or fabricate your own since EVs tend to have nothing
> like the expected accessory mounting points of an ICE.
>
> You might even get by as simply as throwing a full bridge rectifier
> between the battery and output of a 120V Power Mite (bad boy charger)
> and just varying the field strength to vary the amount of regen. The
> wide AC input range of the PFCxx charger would allow that combination to
> offer regen over a much wider range of speed, but if you aren't already
> running a PFCxx charger purchasing one would increase the cost of the
> regen system by a couple grand.
>
> Some people would fuss with trying to use a magnetic clutch so the regen
> alternator spins only when regenning; I wouldn't bother. Just power the
> field when regen is desired and let the alternator spin freely
> otherwise.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/360 - Release Date: 09/06/2006
>
>
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Photos is now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo.
http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 9:45 AM -0700 6/12/06, Rush wrote:
Otmar,
Can the Hall Effect pedal be used with a Curtis 1231 in place of a
regular pot box?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Sorry, not the one that I sell.
The Hall Effect Pedal requires 5V to drive it and puts out unusual
output voltages.
Plus for safety it is advisable to compare the two different outputs
for proper offsets to insure that there are no faults in the wiring
or the system driving it.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Just crank the current knob on the PFCxx up or down to increase/decrease
> the amount of regen desired.
Can you leave the charger as-is and adjust the alternator output like
Victor does with his AC system (slide pot on the steering wheel)?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You don't get the batteries or racks, but it looks like a deal for anyone in MD:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4651790535
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Catching up on old mail...
This is still an *amazing* piece of EV history... Rooted in the `70's,
with echoes into this new century.
The ebay site still has links. Like the television interview AVI seen
here:
http://pietro-frua.de/fahrzeuge_1970.htm
More info from the ebay item here:
http://www.compacks.com/about%20Exar-1.htm#
And the stories about Edmond X. Ramirez Sr. and the 4E Corporation...
I guess Ramirez is out of goal now. Wonder if he EVer actually cared
about EV's... and Roger Bonnema of Willmar Minnesota...
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/8th/984133p.pdf
http://www.minnlawyer.com/opinions/020701/c9011940.htm
`Wonder who got the car for $300US, and their plans for the thing.
Lock
Toronto
>From the ad:
"Here is a one of a kind Prototype BMW coupe based Frua bodied electric
car."
So, if you do not mind making your own parts, finding non-existent
replacement plastic and rubber sounds like a challenge to you and you
like a unique car, then this can be your life project.
If you prefer to have parts at hand and after-market orderable, then
this hulk that looks like it did not have windows for 20 years (with
matching interior - interior - what interior?) may be not for you....
I do like BMW's, but prefer a long-running model of which I can select
a
vehicle that has a perfect body, a good interior, low miles and
(preferably)
blown engine but otherwise good drivetrain.
YMMV. Your challenges too.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 7:35 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: EXAR on Ebay
I had never heard of this car before. item number 4630782855
it looks like a dryed up husk, but the link on the page has some
interesting EV history and it did pass US safety inspection once.
looks like 100miles on a charge , but I haven't looked thru rest of
page(it is fixed size and hard to read scanned documents)
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
