EV Digest 5586
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Isolated vs. Non-isolated Battery Chargers
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Maine EV's
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Maine EV's
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Portland Who Killed the Electric Car Release
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Voltage sag under load
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: is copper all the same?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
9) Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: This Just In!!
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Video of Red Beastie's demise
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Costco golf car battery
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: BASIC Stamp 2 on sale
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: S10 conversion
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Daytime lights requirement?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Body work
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Video of Red Beastie's demise
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Ampabout ...
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV Conversion Business
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Direct Drive and Infinitely Variable Transmission
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Costco golf car battery
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Direct Drive and Infinitely Variable Transmission
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jack,
I am trying to avoid using a small trailer. I am hoping I can
install a trailer hitch on my S-10 Blazer EV
http://www.racepages.com/fr3/parts/hitch/chevy/s10_blazer.html
Then use a special trailer hitch accessory that will let me install
the genset on:
http://www.hitchcorner.com/atv-racks.htm
Not having a trailer off the back of the EV will save weight and
not have the wheel drag of a two wheeled trailer.
With the above accessory, I would have room and weight carrying
capacity to have a 5 gallon gas con on either side.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Dave Cover wrote:
> I'm using the BB600 NiCad cells that have a nickel pad; I definitely
> don't want to have any exposed copper.
Right! With nickel terminals, you're better off nickel plating your
lugs. Exposed copper, or lead, or tin/lead solder will provide the
dissimilar metals that encourage corrosion.
> I was thinking of dipping the lugs in a solder pot before crimping them.
If you're going to crimp and solder, then do the crimp FIRST, then dip
solder it. But see above; the solder should not be left exposed.
> I have good adhesive lined heat shrink tubing to cover the gap between
> the lug and the insulation.
That keeps electrolyte from wicking in between the wire and its
insulation. But it won't keep it off the terminal itself.
> Someone mentioned using lithium grease to coat the exposed copper.
That works; but so does vaseline or even axle grease. Frankly, plain old
grease is about 90% as good as the high-priced special contact greases.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly,
That is what i was thinking. How can a grounded chassis, through the
grounding of ht ebattery charger frame and hence through the earth prong of
the power cord be HOT??
Doesn't make sense.
Cheers
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Isolated vs. Non-isolated Battery Chargers
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
> Hi All,
>
> This has been on my mind for ages.
>
> Firstly, what is the potential safety hazards when using a non-isolated
> battery charger like the PFC on a vehicle. PLease don't say you will get
> shocked or it is unwise. I want to know details, like can you get
shocked
> in
> terms of electrical paths etc.
>
> If this non-isolated battery charger is used on a vehicle whose ground
is
> tied to the vehicle's chassis. What will happen in terms of safety
> hazards.
> What are the electrical pathways for the possible shock risks to occur.
>
> If this happens to a vehicle with total isolation between the battery
pack
> and the frame of the vehicle. WHat will happen (i think nothing).
>
> ALso, has anyone on the list used a non-isolated battery charger with;
>
> 1. Batteries tied to frame.
> 2. Batteries not tied to frame.
>
> How do you ground the charger? I don't really see any hazards as such
> either
> way. Probably only when you touch the positive terminal of the battery
> pack
> being charged.
>
> Whatdo the PFC chargers recommend?
>
> Does the US standards state anything about needing to have isolation in
> battery chargers?
>
> Cheers...You'll be helping more than myself here.
Ah, nothing like a discussion on non-isolated chargers, grounding, and
GFCI protection. The RUSSCO non-isolated, grounded case, GFCI protected
chargers are the Model SCxx. The SC stands for "Safety Charger."
Let's look at residential house wiring. In the kitchen, the metallic
stove, dishwasher, garbage disposal, and refrigerator all have their metal
frames grounded, either through hardwiring the stove and dishwasher, or a
ground prong on the disposal and refrigerator cord. In the laundry room,
the washer and dryer have their metal frames grounded through the ground
prong on the cord.
Back in the kitchen, laundry room, garage, and bathroom, all receptacles
will have GFCI protection. The reason GFCI is used in these areas is
because there can be contact with water or the earth.
Power wiring for an electric vehicle is no different, as per the NEC,
section 625. Whether the charger is isolated or not, the vehicle frame
must be grounded to the electrical service via a green ground wire, which
is normally part of the power cord to the charger. If the frame of the
car is at ground, there can be no potential, or zero volts, between the
car body and the ground. Thus, no shock hazard between the car and
ground.
Any electric vehicle charger must be powered from a GFCI service. A
standard GFCI will shut off all AC power when a 4-6 ma. fault current
flows, protecting a normal adult. The GFCI also alerts the owner of a
conductive path from any propulsion component to vehicle chassis and
forces the owner to take corrective action.
In my opinion, and the National Electrical Code, every EV shall have a
grounded chassis and GFCI AC service protection. That's why every RUSSCO
charger manufactured has a built in GFCI. Without a built in GFCI, there
is no guarantee the owner will operate from a GFCI outlet.
Russ Kaufmann
RUSSCO Engineering
The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI
http://www.russcoev.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
There are more than a few Maine EV'ers, it's just Maine is a big place with not
many people and we like it that way.
I am in Stockton Springs and only have five ev's at this time. Two registered
and on the road.
Am working on my 1995 S10. It was originally a 1987 S10 that the local utility
company had converted with a US Solar kit. It had an automatic trans and was a
little crusty, so I am swapping it over to the '95 with a manual trans. Put in
the motor yesterday. Rolled it around on 12v in the yard. Simple pleasures!
So here is the question of the day. It is my understanding that most S10
drivers use second gear from start up to about 45 mph. They then use third when
on an interstate. (All this at 120V.)
Why not run the motor right on the differential with the proper belt drive to
mimic the trans in second gear and then go to field weakening when having to go
faster?
Wouldn't this lose a bunch of rotational weight and make the vehicle simpler
(mechanically, anyway). I guess this pre-supposes that you are using the S10 as
a passenger vehicle and not a true truck.
Hope to install the nicads next week once I figure out where the boxes are
going. Took off the bed today and all the remnants of the ICE. Now to just get
rid of all the ICE dregs...
Tom in Maine
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The "Fox 10" (Fox Tower 10, I think) theater in Portland is scheduled to
show WKEC July 21st. Has any of the Portland EV crowd contacted the
theater General Manager to see if an event could be centered around the
first evening showings (or even a special showing)?
I am going to be in town for the O'Reilly OSCon show the following
week.. if anything is planned I'd like to come up early. (I am thinking
of leaving early to be present for the Austin showingon the 28th.. we
still working out the details but it looks like we'll have a few cars
present)
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, I'm confused. What is an acceptable level of voltage sag for a lead-acid
battery under a heavy amp draw? Should a 12 volt battery stay above 11 volts?
10? 9? I sem to remember someone (Lee Hart?) saying that anything below 10.5
is dangerous, yet I see others talking about a sag to 9 or even lower under a
heavy draw being OK. Any commentary will be appreciated.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus theres much
more to come.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Brian:
A McMaster Carr catalog (and their website) can give you some insight into the
different grades of copper and its uses.
Alloy 101 is oxygen free 99.99% pure copper, electronics grade and is the
standard that all other metals are compared to. Alloys in the 100's are good.
But, of course, unless you buy it you won't (really) know what grade it is -
except for one:
Copper water pipe is Alloy 122. It's conductivity is about 75% - 80% of alloy
101. It has a little phosphorus in it which helps it to conduct heat better and
it also has better mechanical characteristics. It's still 99% copper and it
conducts electricity well, but not best.
There maybe a materials guy out there that can put all this in perspective.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For all you material science type of people out there, I was curious. Is
> there a difference between the type of copper used in the different types of
> wires and cables, (such as house wire and stranded hook-up wire) bus-bars,
> copper pipes, the big grounding rods, copper from a metal shop, scrap
> copper, etc. Will each of these have differing amounts of resistance? Are
> there potential problems with creating my own bus bars from a metal shop
> that sells copper?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
Would it make sense to create a trailer with the generator?
Somewhat like welders that are put on small trailers.
Seems a lot easier to engineer, you don't want 5gal gas can inside
your car.
I saw the ICE pusher trailer that was the front of a civic. that was
cool!
bruce parmenter wrote:
David,
I believe your figure are correct. With the added weight of the
genset (~200 lbs total to mount it + a full 5 gal gas can) the
performance will be like a 4 banger ICE.
...
Listers please remember the use of this genset is not a permanent
plan. Its use is just temporary so I can get around in an area that
does not have public EV charging.
An example would be I move to Arkansas. I would need to be able to go
around and submit my resume/filled-out job applications, then
get back to where Iw as staying.
Once I have obtained a job and secured housing within my range that
allows me to recharge my EV, I would take the genset set off my EV
and store it away.
4'x4' steel trailers can be had new & complete for less then $200....
like this one for example:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90153
Some even have "short metal sides and hinging top" add-on kits.
Or if it fits, this would be even better:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92655
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob,
Sorry to hear about the accident with Tony's EV's. Your EV club must
have some sort of "Cosmic Kick Me Sign" planted on its backside.
I guess this is a different approach to crushing EVs. Did you all
check to see if this was a GM or Ford dump truck?
As you know down here in DC the EV1 has been put in quarantine by the
Smithsonian. It wasn't playing well with the other exhibits
especially with Cinderella's Pumpkin Chariot which was across the
hall. So last week it was moved to their warehouse in Suitland,
Maryland. We need the E-Team to go rescue it. I'll give them directions.
>Dave Cover, still working on moving the EV count in the positive
direction.
Good point Dave. We've actually been loosing ground EV wise. Ron
Freund was saying something like 3000 to 4000 EVs have been taken out
of service if you count all the OEMs that have taken EVs off leases
and/or crushed them.
It's time to make up some lost ground here. But we can't have weird
accidents taking out EVs as well. The "Anti-EV Vortex" appears to be
morphing into different forms.
My parents hybrid was stolen a couple weeks ago, but fortunately
Lowjack saved the day. Found the car within several hours in Rich
Rudman's garage as he was reverse engineering it :-)
See ya!!
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC
http://www.evadc.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't drive that truck another mile until its brakes and handling
problems are resolved. That truck could kill somebody!
Your brakes probably need to be completely rebuilt to restore them
to like new performance. Your problem is not the lack of
engine drag. The Courier brakes in good condition should be
adequate.
You didn't say what your handling problems are. Your Courier
probably suffers from the usual symptoms of a tail heavy pickup.
It tends to oversteer and wander. At speeds over about 30 mph it
could go completely out of control.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Condie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:11 AM
Subject: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
(stuff snipped out)
1. Brakes! I had no idea how much effect engine drag has on slowing
down in an ICE car, even with an automatic. The Presto just spins merrily
along when I WANT TO SLOW DOWN!!! I've got non-power drum brakes all
around and I'm standin' on those puppies to make it stop. Too many stops
in a short period of time and I start to smell the aroma of too-hot brake
shoes. I would really like some regen to take some of the stress off the
brakes. (Unfortunately, the Presto has no tailshaft, so I'm mulling my
options here.) In the meantime, anticipating traffic conditions ahead to
minimize braking seems like a good idea.
4. Handling. I need **more** weight in the front (where the Courier is
now lighter than stock.) The rear isn't too heavy, since I've crowded the
13 AGM's as close to the front of the truck bed as possible, and I should
be well below the GVWR (I'm going to go to a public scale and weigh it,
just to have a data point.). But it rides high in the front. And it
rides like a truck. A 30 year old truck. I guess that makes sense...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www3.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO21316/
I don't think anybody's posted this link yet.
Condolences to Tony.
-Jay Donnaway
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
Has anyone looked at the Costco golf car battery? I've seen EVDL
postings stating that the 12v marine battery is low quality (as most
marine batteries are for EV use), but no one has brought up the 6V golf
car battery. I will look at it this weekend, but in the mean time, does
anyone have any information, specifically cycle life, on these batteries?
Thanks,
Cory Cross
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't seen a new microcontroller with a UV window in 5 years :-)
Check the surplus outlets and eBay.
--
Martin K
Christopher Zach wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
The Stamp uses a very, very weak type of PIC core. It has almost
nothing for hardware resources, program memory, or RAM. It can only
hold a very small program. It makes much more sense to just get a
new PIC with a whole lot of memory and "stuff" on it. It only costs
a few bucks.
Speaking of which, does anyone know where to get 68HC711K series
chips? Digikey has them for $30 each, which is a bit steep for
something that can be programmed once....
Even better, any sources for the 68K series that have UV windows?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
most appreciative!
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: S10 conversion
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:20:11 -0700
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_Sonoma
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michael Mohlere
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 6:09 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: S10 conversion
All -
Okay, this is sort of a lazy question, but is there a difference between
the
Chevy S10 and the GMC Sonoma?? Will the S10 adapter, etc, work on the
Sonoma - ergo, do they have the same engine/tranny setups??
Thx, Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Jun 2006 at 13:25, Danny Miller wrote:
> I'm an electrical engineer and crunched the numbers here awhile ago.
Outstanding analysis. Thanks for posting it.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
What kind of truck is it?
What make?
I've got drum brakes all round too on my littel Fiat 126 with no power
assist. Stock weight was 600kg, now 700 kg converted. It stops ok! Actually
stops like it would when it was gasoline. The brakes were crappy to start
with.
Might want to give your system a good bleed, with some new wheel cylinders
and shoes, and check if they got oil on them. Doesn't help the situation if
they do.
Also try putting on new brake flexi hoses. They help helps. Also a good
master cylinder helps also.
But, i think it sounds like your brakes were not really made to handle so
much weight on the vehicle, if they are smelling. Because when they smell,
it probably indicates that the brakes are working.
Cheers
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:34:30 -0700
Don't drive that truck another mile until its brakes and handling
problems are resolved. That truck could kill somebody!
Your brakes probably need to be completely rebuilt to restore them
to like new performance. Your problem is not the lack of
engine drag. The Courier brakes in good condition should be
adequate.
You didn't say what your handling problems are. Your Courier
probably suffers from the usual symptoms of a tail heavy pickup.
It tends to oversteer and wander. At speeds over about 30 mph it
could go completely out of control.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Condie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:11 AM
Subject: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
(stuff snipped out)
1. Brakes! I had no idea how much effect engine drag has on slowing
down in an ICE car, even with an automatic. The Presto just spins merrily
along when I WANT TO SLOW DOWN!!! I've got non-power drum brakes all
around and I'm standin' on those puppies to make it stop. Too many stops
in a short period of time and I start to smell the aroma of too-hot brake
shoes. I would really like some regen to take some of the stress off the
brakes. (Unfortunately, the Presto has no tailshaft, so I'm mulling my
options here.) In the meantime, anticipating traffic conditions ahead to
minimize braking seems like a good idea.
4. Handling. I need **more** weight in the front (where the Courier is
now lighter than stock.) The rear isn't too heavy, since I've crowded the
13 AGM's as close to the front of the truck bed as possible, and I should
be well below the GVWR (I'm going to go to a public scale and weigh it,
just to have a data point.). But it rides high in the front. And it
rides like a truck. A 30 year old truck. I guess that makes sense...
_________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all:
I would like to get some body work done to my 95 Force. The shops all want to
weld new parts on, which I do not object to. Should I:
A. Disconnect, or
B. Remove
my controller to lessen any damage?
Or, am I too concerned about something and should not worry about it at all?
Jim
Westwood, KS
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Jay:
That was about the best news clip I have scene. You see the E Rabbit in a
shot, with the firemen around it. And Tony's 15 seconds of fame , live, on
TV.But a crappy way to get on TV. Yeah! The Foo-Bah Construction Co won't
take any calls, probably haven't got any insurance?If they were on the
Leval. Pun Intended, they woulda been on the tube apologising. We got any
Lawyers on the List? Bet this would be a good case? Glad Tony and his Mon
were out shopping.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:53 PM
Subject: Video of Red Beastie's demise
> http://www3.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO21316/
> I don't think anybody's posted this link yet.
> Condolences to Tony.
> -Jay Donnaway
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
> and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These threads always baffle me. EV's are the solution to the world's
problems according to many on this list, yet we have a bunch of closet
ICE-aholics figuring out ways to make their rides practical by slapping
stinky, 0 pollution control, ridiculously low mileage gensets to the back of
their EV's. If even the hard core EV enthusiasts including ones who call
themselves EVangelists can't kick the petro habbit who can? Perhaps the big
car companies are right and there really isn't a market for EV's :-(
I say if you want a hybrid, there are thousands of nice clean efficient OEM
ones available that do the job much better than anything a DIY EV enthusiast
can cobble together, or just go the route of having an ICE that is parked
most of the year and use the EV as much as possible. Gensets are about the
worst way in the world to power an EV, you might as well hook a big pot
belly coal burning stove to the back and dress up in a chimney sweep
costume.
On the positive side of things, I sure am looking forward to my next trip to
PIR to watch the White Zombie. It will be nice to have the whole genset at
the track thing done away with since they have made arraingements to tap
into the grid. That track is wired. Last time I was there, I was charging
my motorcycle off the genset, but when I looked around I saw they had
outlets everywhere. I finally got smart and moved my motorcycle and my
charger over next to one and finished charging up.
EV'n is great, but not when it is powered by a filthy genset.
damon
From: bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: evlist <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:59:10 -0700
(PDT)
Jack,
I am trying to avoid using a small trailer. I am hoping I can
install a trailer hitch on my S-10 Blazer EV
http://www.racepages.com/fr3/parts/hitch/chevy/s10_blazer.html
Then use a special trailer hitch accessory that will let me install
the genset on:
http://www.hitchcorner.com/atv-racks.htm
Not having a trailer off the back of the EV will save weight and
not have the wheel drag of a two wheeled trailer.
With the above accessory, I would have room and weight carrying
capacity to have a 5 gallon gas con on either side.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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This is a Ford Courier? I'm assuming it didn't have power assisted brakes?
If the brakes were power assisted, you might consider adding back in a
vacuum pump to get them working again. Otherwise, a larger master cylinder
(larger diameter piston) will help with stopping pedal force. It won't help,
of course, if your brakes are glazed. Replacing the shoes with high temp
shoes will stop them from being cooked. There are numerous places where you
can have shoes relined, since factory shoes are minimal at best, on most
cars. I had mine relined with a yellow woven material that could stand up
against 12 times the normal heat... and stopped 40% better with the same
pedal pressure.
That, of course, won't help with overheating, but it will keep the friction
material from failing. You are converting forward motion directly into heat.
Stock brake drums will probably overheat and warp, unless they have blowers
on them, are overly heavy in construction, and/or are vented. You are
smelling them burning? I'd suggest pulling things apart. That may be a fluid
or grease leak on the shoes. Brakes can stink, but not usually. If you are
smelling the shoes, they are fried and need replacing. If they've been
overheated, don't rebuild these but get some new ones to rebuild. Going with
a larger diameter drum will help both with stopping power and overheating.
Also look around. There were some models (from what I'm reading from the
Australian groups) that some had (or were later equipped with) disk brakes.
Oversized disks (vented) on front, and disks on back will help alleviate
overheating. Even with these, give a larger stopping distance. It'll not
only help your brakes, but increase your range.
Mag wheels (properly designed) will draw more air across your brakes,
helping keep them cooler, once you get proper brakes on this rig.
Even with your battery load, this rig should be stopping similar to a fully
loaded truck. Glazed friction material will be a cause for excessive pedal
pressure. This rig is 30 years old, so all 4 brakes may not be operational
(frozen cylinders on one or both sides) or they may not be seating properly.
This is especially true if the truck sat outside for any length of time.
> >From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
> >Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:34:30 -0700
> >
> >Don't drive that truck another mile until its brakes and handling
> >problems are resolved. That truck could kill somebody!
> >
> >Your brakes probably need to be completely rebuilt to restore them
> >to like new performance. Your problem is not the lack of
> >engine drag. The Courier brakes in good condition should be
> >adequate.
> >
> >You didn't say what your handling problems are. Your Courier
> >probably suffers from the usual symptoms of a tail heavy pickup.
> >It tends to oversteer and wander. At speeds over about 30 mph it
> >could go completely out of control.
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Condie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:11 AM
> >Subject: Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
> >
> >(stuff snipped out)
> >> 1. Brakes! I had no idea how much effect engine drag has on slowing
> >>down in an ICE car, even with an automatic. The Presto just spins
merrily
> >>along when I WANT TO SLOW DOWN!!! I've got non-power drum brakes all
> >>around and I'm standin' on those puppies to make it stop. Too many
stops
> >>in a short period of time and I start to smell the aroma of too-hot
brake
> >>shoes. I would really like some regen to take some of the stress off
the
> >>brakes. (Unfortunately, the Presto has no tailshaft, so I'm mulling my
> >>options here.) In the meantime, anticipating traffic conditions ahead
to
> >>minimize braking seems like a good idea.
> >
> >> 4. Handling. I need **more** weight in the front (where the Courier
is
> >>now lighter than stock.) The rear isn't too heavy, since I've crowded
the
> >>13 AGM's as close to the front of the truck bed as possible, and I
should
> >>be well below the GVWR (I'm going to go to a public scale and weigh it,
> >>just to have a data point.). But it rides high in the front. And it
> >>rides like a truck. A 30 year old truck. I guess that makes sense...
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Hi all,
Would someone explain what the term "ampabout" entails? I've seen it in
several posts, but haven't caught on to the idea behind the word. I
guess I could be creative :)
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Summer Special - Free shipping on all orders over $500!
Includes Zillas, WarP and Impulse Motors, and PFC Chargers
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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Hi, Jack - with the price of gasoline some people are finally starting to
get interested in conversions. I have one lined up for this winter already,
and another already done conversion that a man is interested in buying. I
don't think that is enough to make a living on yet, but it could depend on
where you are. I am in the central Willamette Valley on Oregon.
Get one done yourself, then get the word out that you want to do
conversions, and they will come. Please do a quality job, so you don't
embarrass the rest of us that want to do conversions :)
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:10 PM
Subject: EV Conversion Business
> Hello, I'm looking into starting a business converting cars to E-power.
> Is this a viable business? Will people buy converted e-cars with
> sufficient profit margin?
>
> I'd appreciate any feedback on the business idea.
>
> I'll be certain to have many technical questions to follow as I do my
> first car.
>
> Thanks,
> Jack Murray
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/373 - Release Date: 6/22/2006
>
>
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In a message dated 6/22/2006 8:46:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<If even the hard core EV enthusiasts including ones who call
themselves EVangelists can't kick the petro habbit who can?>>
Wow... that's pretty harsh.
For you to condemn a man whose EV has been his sole form of transport for
many years just because he needs to use 25 or 30 gallons of gas is nothing buy
silly zealotry.
Lighten up Francis
Ben
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It's counterintuitive, but you actually want a smaller diameter bore
in the master cylinder, and/or a larger diameter bore in the wheel
cylinders, to give the brakes more force.
--- Quoted anonymously:
> ... Otherwise, a larger master cylinder
> (larger diameter piston) will help with stopping pedal force.
> ...
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Been thinking about converting my ProStreet '63 Falcon to electric
seeing that the 460 died and the car has been sitting for years now.
Just uncovered it and pulled it off the trailer, and been looking it
over, and it looks like plenty of room in front of the diff.
The fuel cell area between the frame rails has room for 6 regular 12v
batteries, maybe 2 more if I make mods. Putting the motor back there
puts all the weight on the rear wheels. Might be room for a tiny
driveshaft, which would allow mounting the motor to the frame. I really
like the idea of opening the hood, and it being empty inside. :)
What constraint is there without a transmission? Will the motor be
overloaded on launch? how does one figure this out, what the gearing
should be, the rpm range, etc. And what is the biggest baddest motor
to use? can I use two of them?
Another idea is using two motors and a infinitely variable transmission,
i.e. two cone pulleys and a belt that moves up and down the pulleys
changing the gear ratio automatically, and have two motors connected
this way to a driveshaft.
-----
m1 ----->
----- |
<---<----driveshaft
------ |
m2 -->
------
Of course one could do it with a single motor, but the weight
distributes better with two if the driveshaft is centered in the car,
and two motors make twice as much power right?
If the transmission can be as simple as two cone pulleys and a belt it
would be very light and simple. Does anyone make such a thing? I've
heard that mini-bikes have such a setup available, but have not seen it.
Jack
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>... no one has brought up the 6V golf
> car battery. I will look at it this weekend, but in the mean time, does
> anyone have any information, specifically cycle life, on these
batteries?
>
The list has discussed these GC batteries before - seems they are not
always the same manufacturer, so stats may be a bit variable. Both
Costco and Sam's Club just get the best deal they can.
You can also find Orbitals at Sam's Club and lightweight versions of
Optimas at Costco.
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> Of course one could do it with a single motor, but the weight
> distributes better with two if the driveshaft is centered in the car,
> and two motors make twice as much power right?
> If the transmission can be as simple as two cone pulleys and a belt it
> would be very light and simple. Does anyone make such a thing? I've
> heard that mini-bikes have such a setup available, but have not seen it.
>
Sounds like you'd like the 2-motor-1-Z2K setup in White Zombie - no
tranny + parallel/series switching by the Zilla is like having
2-speeds, which should be enough for a quarter mile.
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Something to keep in mind: About 1/2 the pollution a car makes over
its lifetime is created by manufacturing it, the other 1/2 by running
it. In the case of a superclean hybrid the ratio is even worse, most
of its pollution is from manufacture. Even more green than buying a
new hybrid is to electrify and keep using an old car. If you figure a
car uses about 3000 or 4000 gallons of gas in its life, using 30 or
40 gallons for a generator is probably more reasonable than running
out and buying a new hybrid.
<http://www.newscientist.com/backpage.ns?id=lw900>
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> These threads always baffle me. EV's are the solution to the
> world's
> problems according to many on this list, yet we have a bunch of
> closet
> ICE-aholics figuring out ways to make their rides practical by
> slapping
> stinky, 0 pollution control, ridiculously low mileage gensets to
> the back of
> their EV's. If even the hard core EV enthusiasts including ones
> who call
> themselves EVangelists can't kick the petro habbit who can?
> Perhaps the big
> car companies are right and there really isn't a market for EV's
> :-(
>
> I say if you want a hybrid, there are thousands of nice clean
> efficient OEM
> ones available that do the job much better than anything a DIY EV
> enthusiast
> can cobble together, or just go the route of having an ICE that is
> parked
> most of the year and use the EV as much as possible. Gensets are
> about the
> worst way in the world to power an EV, you might as well hook a big
> pot
> belly coal burning stove to the back and dress up in a chimney
> sweep
> costume.
> ...
> >From: bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: evlist <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006
> 13:59:10 -0700
> >(PDT)
> >
> >Jack,
> >
> >I am trying to avoid using a small trailer. I am hoping I can
> >install a trailer hitch on my S-10 Blazer EV
> >http://www.racepages.com/fr3/parts/hitch/chevy/s10_blazer.html
> >
> >Then use a special trailer hitch accessory that will let me
> install
> >the genset on:
> >http://www.hitchcorner.com/atv-racks.htm
> >
> >Not having a trailer off the back of the EV will save weight and
> >not have the wheel drag of a two wheeled trailer.
> >
> >With the above accessory, I would have room and weight carrying
> >capacity to have a 5 gallon gas con on either side.
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> It's counterintuitive, but you actually want a smaller diameter bore
> in the master cylinder, and/or a larger diameter bore in the wheel
> cylinders, to give the brakes more force.
>
If you replace your power brake system's master cylinder with a
smaller diameter version, could you do without the vacuum, or does
this mean you still have to push too hard to get good braking?
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