EV Digest 5585
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: This Just In!!
by "fortunat mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) More BACKGROUND on "Who Killed" ..LONG
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: This Just In!!
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) More articles - Re: More BACKGROUND on "Who Killed" ..LONG
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: This Just In!!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Isolated vs. Non-isolated Battery Chargers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: This Just In!!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ampabout ... 3kw genset
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) 300V precharge resistor
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV Calculator
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: BASIC Stamp 2 on sale
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: BASIC Stamp 2 on sale
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: BASIC Stamp 2 on sale
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: BASIC Stamp 2 on sale
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Isolated vs. Non-isolated Battery Chargers
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
as you might remember, my first EV was an 88 Jetta. It was 6 years ago or
more, but I have a power point presentation with a couple of photos of what
we did if you are interested. But I think the file is kind of big. You
aren't on dial up are you ?
our set up was 108 V of T125s. 7 up front and 11 in the trunk. We didn't cut
the trunk floor out, so we didn't have all that much space left when we were
done. I didn't do anything to the springs and as you can see, the car
dragged its ass a bit, but it was fine to drive even at highway speeds. If I
did it again with a jetta I would do a couple things different :
-keep the clutch
-upgrade the springs in back (i think that same place that sells custom
rabbit springs will get you springs for a jetta)
-sink the rear pack into the trunk to leave a bit more space
-get insulation without the metalic cover to minimize ground faults
anyway, let me know and I will send you the powerpoint file (keep in mind
this was a project for school so the presentation was mostly blowing hot air
and pretty basic stuff).
sorry to hear about Tony's and sorry to miss the meetings. I am up in Maine
now, which is even more EV wasteland than CT. Got my fiero running but still
need to get the second set of batteries in it to have a respectable range.
good luck with your projects.
~fortunat
On 6/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi EVerybody;
Gunna pass this on to the List Especially guyz in the Boston/ Worcester
area.Tony Ascrizzi just called me with news like a bad Sci Fi flick. If ya
are familier with Tony's place on Payne Street in Worcester, it is on a
serious hill. "Aint EVerybody's place on a hill that has an EV?Seems a truck
driver PARKED one of those enormous 3 axle in back dump trucks, in a lot
ABOVE Tony's place. Well, it got away, and crashed down this almost vertical
wall BEHIND the house. Slamming into the rear of the house and, of course,
burning! It pushed, the Diseasel engine, IN the rear hallway in the house.
The FD arrived and saved the house, but it isn't liviable. ALL Tony's
rolling stock? GONE! The Red Beastie has met it's end, as well as the Shop
setup, dump truk sitting there! Tony used to do his creative stuff., the Red
Dodge truck, 6 bikes, And the famous Jerry Dycus Suzuki motorcycle that got
Jerry in site of the Vampire State Building in NYC Last fall., with trailer
in his Fla CT j!
aunt. Gone! Maybe he can dig the motor out of the Beastie and have
Warfield rebuild it? But the rest? Toast.The Rabbit still runs but burnt,
and needs a new windshield. It hasn't been a good year for Rabbbits!The
Prius was out with Tony and his Mom, during these festivities. Imagine
coming home to TV news, Fire trux , news Choppers. I couldn't see anything
on the sNews down in CT. Sat through thousands of ads to see if they were
gunna cover it? Nah! What's a house fire when you have driveby shootings in
Hartford every night! Damn place is like Iraq!THAT makes the news the Police
chief with a blank stare" Oh We'll get them" and other fairy tales.
Tony's dry sense of humor;" Well, I guess we won't have the EAA Club
meetings here?" So I'll volunteer, again, unless otherwise ,come to MY
place, like last month.We can do griill and cookout again. Whythehell not,
it IS summer. Boy it IS summer! CT is in a wet blanket humidity, 90 degrees.
About to drag out the room A/C.Feh!
So were down a few EV's right now.Working on that. Got the 89 Jetta
running with the ICE engine. So It can be shunted about the yard while it
awaits engine removal. Nice little car. It has the godamn VW disease. Door
handles don't work in rr door, will hafta take the damn door apart to open
it! The Key doesn't crank the engine, stupid shit that makes Toyotas and
Nissans a more appealing car. What is with VW? Are they SLEEPING? Don't they
see these silly quality control stuff. Door handles that fall off in your
hand? Well, their PAINT jobs are better than Crapsler and Chevy, for
sure! Jetta looks GOOD, so I don't havta do much restorative CAR work to
get an electric out of it. Quick looking in it's cavernous trunk, I can drop
the battery racks between the frame rails, get 10 back there AND keep them
OUT of the cabin, and have a trunk.Gotta get the ecccky gas engine out,
AFTER I get to try the A/C. Of course the AC doesn't clutch up when you put
it on. Damn VW wiring, agai!
n.Would like to drive the AC pump with thre motor, if it WORKS ?? I'm sure
I'll hafta beef up the springs?Anybody else done Jettas? What did YOU use
for beefier springs?
OK end of car rant, and Todaze News Today.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From my Google News FEED, here is another article on "Who Killed the
Electric Car" It is LONG but lots of detail on how the whole project
got going... And did SOME ONE say OSCAR ??
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/grove_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002691221
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> I'd like to add to the question in regards to copper lugs. Is there
> a big difference (performance, durability, longevity) between the
> cast copper lugs versus the less expensive lugs that look like
> they are made from copper pipe? Would you be more inclined to crimp
> or solder one type versus the other?
The cast lugs are made of thicker material. They don't have a seam, so
you can crimp them tighter. This means you'll get a little better crimp
and a bit lower resistance.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On 6/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Seems a truck
> > driver PARKED one of those enormous 3 axle in back dump trucks, in a lot
> > ABOVE Tony's place. Well, it got away, and crashed down this almost vertical
> > wall BEHIND the house. Slamming into the rear of the house
>
> > I couldn't see anything on the sNews down in CT.
Bob
Guess what? They finally ran the story, on TUESDAY! And they almost got his
name correct. But
there was no mention of EVs at all. They focused on how many people could have
gotten run over as
the truck was careening down the hill. It did go a long way before stopping. Ah
well, let's hope
he had his insurance paid up.
Dave Cover, still working on moving the EV count in the positive direction.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland
I'm using the BB600 NiCad cells that have a nickel pad, I definitely don't want
to have any
exposed copper. I'll be using a stainless bolt and washer to hold the lug in
place. I was thinking
of dipping the lugs in a solder pot before crimping them. I have good adhesive
lined heat shrink
tubing to cover the gap between the lug and the insulation.
Someone mentioned using lithium grease to coat the exposed copper. The lithium
grease was supposed
to prevent corrosion without impairing conductivity. Is this true? Anyone have
any experience with
using lithium grease, especially between a lug and the battery/cell pad?
Dave Cover
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Dave,
>
> The copper un-plated terminal lugs will tarnish and even turn green in a
> battery connection. I
> used a heavy duty plated terminal lug, not cast which I got from NAPA for
> $2.50 each. These were
> even cheaper than I could get from a wholesale electrical supplier.
>
> I do not direct connected to a battery stud terminal, because these types of
> stud terminals,
> will mushroom the battery post and sometimes will pull out.
>
> Even a plated connector touching a lead post, will cause a tarnish spot
> between the two, and
> increases the resistance.
>
> In my electrical work, we always place a bi-metal barrier between any two
> de-similar metals.
>
> I therefore order gold plated battery clamps from
> www.wirthco.com<http://www.wirthco.com/> for
> $1.75 each for 100 each all one size to fit the large low profile pad on a
> Trojan T-145. I
> clamp it around the pad below the stud and also use a stainless steel washer,
> lock washer and
> nut on the stud to put down pressure on the battery clamp.
>
> The battery clamp put pressure on the lead pad, which prevent the post from
> mushrooming.
>
> The battery clamps come with a 5/16 bolt and wing nut. I replace the wing
> nut with a stainless
> washer, lock washer and nut that the existing terminal lug connect to. I was
> able to be able to
> torque all these connections to a much higher rating than specific.
>
> This type of battery connections allows me to use the same links on any type
> of batteries that
> may have different post spacing, by just rotating the battery clamps.
>
> After one year of usage, these connections are still as bright as the day I
> install them.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave Cover<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
>
>
> I'd like to add to the question in regards to copper lugs. Is there a big
> difference
> (performance,
> durability, longevity) between the cast copper lugs versus the less
> expensive lugs that look
> like
> they are made from copper pipe? Would you be more inclined to crimp or
> solder one type versus
> the
> other?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
> --- Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
> > For all you material science type of people out there, I was curious. Is
> > there a difference between the type of copper used in the different types
> of
> > wires and cables, (such as house wire and stranded hook-up wire) bus-bars,
> > copper pipes, the big grounding rods, copper from a metal shop, scrap
> > copper, etc. Will each of these have differing amounts of resistance?
> Are
> > there potential problems with creating my own bus bars from a metal shop
> > that sells copper?
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
I believe your figure are correct. With the added weight of the
genset (~200 lbs total to mount it + a full 5 gal gas can) the
performance will be like a 4 banger ICE.
...
Listers please remember the use of this genset is not a permanent
plan. Its use is just temporary so I can get around in an area that
does not have public EV charging.
An example would be I move to Arkansas. I would need to be able to
go around and submit my resume/filled-out job applications, then
get back to where Iw as staying.
Once I have obtained a job and secured housing within my range that
allows me to recharge my EV, I would take the genset set off my EV
and store it away.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And another on the home page of MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13459799/site/newsweek/
--- Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From my Google News FEED, here is another article
> on "Who Killed the
> Electric Car" It is LONG but lots of detail on how
> the whole project
> got going... And did SOME ONE say OSCAR ??
>
>
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/grove_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002691221
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ho Dave;
Yeah! They had it on ch3 Tue, I cought the tail end of it. They
Massacured Tony's name SOOOO bad. It sed that it wiped out his motorcycle
biz, no mention of EV destroyed. Gees in Italian New England they coulda got
Ascrizzi right. Sounds just like it is spelled. Well they had a point with
the truck. I guess it WAS in a wreck UP the hill on Lincoln Street, It had
wacked somebody in a car up there, BEFORE the trip to Tony's?People were
hurt up there before Tony's So they wern't paying attention to securing the
damn truck? The news thing was so slap dash, no MEAT in the story, just
fluff, aas most ALL TV news stuff is.I read the newspaper account on line
had a pix of Tony's back hallway, steps destroyed to upstairs. As ya said
the damn trukin' outfit BETTER have insurance. Mass may be more formal than
CT? I hope so.
Tony sed the Rabbit was salvagable, so he still has ONE EV. Bill Glickman
has been out an about in HIS VW. He gets down here OK on a charge. I fill
him up with the PFC-30 when he comes.So come on down<g>!
Seeya
Bob
Oh Yeah, Lee Hart is supposingly coming down this weakend to CT. Havent
got times yet.He haz family in Beentown, the main attraction.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: This Just In!!
> > On 6/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Seems a truck
> > > driver PARKED one of those enormous 3 axle in back dump trucks, in a
lot
> > > ABOVE Tony's place. Well, it got away, and crashed down this almost
vertical
> > > wall BEHIND the house. Slamming into the rear of the house
> >
> > > I couldn't see anything on the sNews down in CT.
>
> Bob
>
> Guess what? They finally ran the story, on TUESDAY! And they almost got
his name correct. But
> there was no mention of EVs at all. They focused on how many people could
have gotten run over as
> the truck was careening down the hill. It did go a long way before
stopping. Ah well, let's hope
> he had his insurance paid up.
>
> Dave Cover, still working on moving the EV count in the positive
direction.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hi All,
>
> This has been on my mind for ages.
>
> Firstly, what is the potential safety hazards when using a non-isolated
> battery charger like the PFC on a vehicle. PLease don't say you will get
> shocked or it is unwise. I want to know details, like can you get shocked
> in
> terms of electrical paths etc.
>
> If this non-isolated battery charger is used on a vehicle whose ground is
> tied to the vehicle's chassis. What will happen in terms of safety
> hazards.
> What are the electrical pathways for the possible shock risks to occur.
>
> If this happens to a vehicle with total isolation between the battery pack
> and the frame of the vehicle. WHat will happen (i think nothing).
>
> ALso, has anyone on the list used a non-isolated battery charger with;
>
> 1. Batteries tied to frame.
> 2. Batteries not tied to frame.
>
> How do you ground the charger? I don't really see any hazards as such
> either
> way. Probably only when you touch the positive terminal of the battery
> pack
> being charged.
>
> Whatdo the PFC chargers recommend?
>
> Does the US standards state anything about needing to have isolation in
> battery chargers?
>
> Cheers...You'll be helping more than myself here.
Ah, nothing like a discussion on non-isolated chargers, grounding, and
GFCI protection. The RUSSCO non-isolated, grounded case, GFCI protected
chargers are the Model SCxx. The SC stands for "Safety Charger."
Let's look at residential house wiring. In the kitchen, the metallic
stove, dishwasher, garbage disposal, and refrigerator all have their metal
frames grounded, either through hardwiring the stove and dishwasher, or a
ground prong on the disposal and refrigerator cord. In the laundry room,
the washer and dryer have their metal frames grounded through the ground
prong on the cord.
Back in the kitchen, laundry room, garage, and bathroom, all receptacles
will have GFCI protection. The reason GFCI is used in these areas is
because there can be contact with water or the earth.
Power wiring for an electric vehicle is no different, as per the NEC,
section 625. Whether the charger is isolated or not, the vehicle frame
must be grounded to the electrical service via a green ground wire, which
is normally part of the power cord to the charger. If the frame of the
car is at ground, there can be no potential, or zero volts, between the
car body and the ground. Thus, no shock hazard between the car and
ground.
Any electric vehicle charger must be powered from a GFCI service. A
standard GFCI will shut off all AC power when a 4-6 ma. fault current
flows, protecting a normal adult. The GFCI also alerts the owner of a
conductive path from any propulsion component to vehicle chassis and
forces the owner to take corrective action.
In my opinion, and the National Electrical Code, every EV shall have a
grounded chassis and GFCI AC service protection. That's why every RUSSCO
charger manufactured has a built in GFCI. Without a built in GFCI, there
is no guarantee the owner will operate from a GFCI outlet.
Russ Kaufmann
RUSSCO Engineering
The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI
http://www.russcoev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Fortunat;
Yeah! I have dsl, at last, It came here about a year ago. Best thing
since round wheels! Im figurin' on my signature droped-into-the-trunk,
between the frame rails, then I can close it off from the still useable
trunk. That was what I did on the Sentra. 10 fit neetly in the trunk, 5 go
in nicely between the FRONT frame directly behind the grille.15 should be
enough, a 90 volt system, that's what it had when I got it.The springs must
have been beefed up as it didn't go down very far when my kid and I climbed
on the rear bumper, He is almost my size.If we did the Jetta we woulda
almost bottomed it out. Debating keeping the AC and driving it with a pulley
off the motor. Jetta AC any good? The Rabbit motor/clutch adapter plate
SHOULD just bolt in, Tony sez.
Well you AREN'T alone in ME. Seth Murray is up there, is doing a Datsun SX
Something. He WAS going to Worcester Poly tech, but is home for the summer,
by now.Damn few Maine-iacs do EV's!YOU gotta change that!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "fortunat mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: This Just In!!
> Bob,
>
> as you might remember, my first EV was an 88 Jetta. It was 6 years ago or
> more, but I have a power point presentation with a couple of photos of
what
> we did if you are interested. But I think the file is kind of big. You
> aren't on dial up are you ?
>
> our set up was 108 V of T125s. 7 up front and 11 in the trunk. We didn't
cut
> the trunk floor out, so we didn't have all that much space left when we
were
> done. I didn't do anything to the springs and as you can see, the car
> dragged its ass a bit, but it was fine to drive even at highway speeds. If
I
> did it again with a jetta I would do a couple things different :
>
> -keep the clutch
> -upgrade the springs in back (i think that same place that sells custom
> rabbit springs will get you springs for a jetta)
> -sink the rear pack into the trunk to leave a bit more space
> -get insulation without the metalic cover to minimize ground faults
>
> anyway, let me know and I will send you the powerpoint file (keep in mind
> this was a project for school so the presentation was mostly blowing hot
air
> and pretty basic stuff).
>
> sorry to hear about Tony's and sorry to miss the meetings. I am up in
Maine
> now, which is even more EV wasteland than CT. Got my fiero running but
still
> need to get the second set of batteries in it to have a respectable range.
>
> good luck with your projects.
>
> ~fortunat
>
>
> On 6/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi EVerybody;
> >
> > Gunna pass this on to the List Especially guyz in the Boston/
Worcester
> > area.Tony Ascrizzi just called me with news like a bad Sci Fi flick. If
ya
> > are familier with Tony's place on Payne Street in Worcester, it is on a
> > serious hill. "Aint EVerybody's place on a hill that has an EV?Seems a
truck
> > driver PARKED one of those enormous 3 axle in back dump trucks, in a lot
> > ABOVE Tony's place. Well, it got away, and crashed down this almost
vertical
> > wall BEHIND the house. Slamming into the rear of the house and, of
course,
> > burning! It pushed, the Diseasel engine, IN the rear hallway in the
house.
> > The FD arrived and saved the house, but it isn't liviable. ALL Tony's
> > rolling stock? GONE! The Red Beastie has met it's end, as well as the
Shop
> > setup, dump truk sitting there! Tony used to do his creative stuff., the
Red
> > Dodge truck, 6 bikes, And the famous Jerry Dycus Suzuki motorcycle that
got
> > Jerry in site of the Vampire State Building in NYC Last fall., with
trailer
> > in his Fla CT j!
> > aunt. Gone! Maybe he can dig the motor out of the Beastie and have
> > Warfield rebuild it? But the rest? Toast.The Rabbit still runs but
burnt,
> > and needs a new windshield. It hasn't been a good year for Rabbbits!The
> > Prius was out with Tony and his Mom, during these festivities. Imagine
> > coming home to TV news, Fire trux , news Choppers. I couldn't see
anything
> > on the sNews down in CT. Sat through thousands of ads to see if they
were
> > gunna cover it? Nah! What's a house fire when you have driveby shootings
in
> > Hartford every night! Damn place is like Iraq!THAT makes the news the
Police
> > chief with a blank stare" Oh We'll get them" and other fairy tales.
> >
> > Tony's dry sense of humor;" Well, I guess we won't have the EAA Club
> > meetings here?" So I'll volunteer, again, unless otherwise ,come to MY
> > place, like last month.We can do griill and cookout again. Whythehell
not,
> > it IS summer. Boy it IS summer! CT is in a wet blanket humidity, 90
degrees.
> > About to drag out the room A/C.Feh!
> >
> > So were down a few EV's right now.Working on that. Got the 89 Jetta
> > running with the ICE engine. So It can be shunted about the yard while
it
> > awaits engine removal. Nice little car. It has the godamn VW disease.
Door
> > handles don't work in rr door, will hafta take the damn door apart to
open
> > it! The Key doesn't crank the engine, stupid shit that makes Toyotas and
> > Nissans a more appealing car. What is with VW? Are they SLEEPING? Don't
they
> > see these silly quality control stuff. Door handles that fall off in
your
> > hand? Well, their PAINT jobs are better than Crapsler and Chevy, for
> > sure! Jetta looks GOOD, so I don't havta do much restorative CAR work
to
> > get an electric out of it. Quick looking in it's cavernous trunk, I can
drop
> > the battery racks between the frame rails, get 10 back there AND keep
them
> > OUT of the cabin, and have a trunk.Gotta get the ecccky gas engine out,
> > AFTER I get to try the A/C. Of course the AC doesn't clutch up when you
put
> > it on. Damn VW wiring, agai!
> > n.Would like to drive the AC pump with thre motor, if it WORKS ?? I'm
sure
> > I'll hafta beef up the springs?Anybody else done Jettas? What did YOU
use
> > for beefier springs?
> >
> > OK end of car rant, and Todaze News Today.
> >
> > Seeya
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
> Dave Cover wrote:
> > I'd like to add to the question in regards to copper lugs. Is there
> > a big difference (performance, durability, longevity) between the
> > cast copper lugs versus the less expensive lugs that look like
> > they are made from copper pipe? Would you be more inclined to crimp
> > or solder one type versus the other?
>
> The cast lugs are made of thicker material. They don't have a seam, so
> you can crimp them tighter. This means you'll get a little better crimp
> and a bit lower resistance.
> --
And you can solder them WITHOUT the solder pissing out the "Seam" of the
Cheepies.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would it make sense to create a trailer with the generator?
Somewhat like welders that are put on small trailers.
Seems a lot easier to engineer, you don't want 5gal gas can inside your car.
I saw the ICE pusher trailer that was the front of a civic. that was cool!
bruce parmenter wrote:
David,
I believe your figure are correct. With the added weight of the
genset (~200 lbs total to mount it + a full 5 gal gas can) the
performance will be like a 4 banger ICE.
...
Listers please remember the use of this genset is not a permanent
plan. Its use is just temporary so I can get around in an area that
does not have public EV charging.
An example would be I move to Arkansas. I would need to be able to
go around and submit my resume/filled-out job applications, then
get back to where Iw as staying.
Once I have obtained a job and secured housing within my range that
allows me to recharge my EV, I would take the genset set off my EV
and store it away.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
In hooking up a Godzilla 1800 controller (pre-hairball), it requires a
precharge resistor, so I'm trying to find an appropriate 12V relay to bring in
the resistor.
Per the manual;
====================
This controller must be
precharged with a 100 to 200 ohm resistor (15 watts is fine) before the main
contactor is engaged. The main contactor should not be engaged until the
controller has risen to within 10 volts of the pack voltage.
To insure this it is imperative that there is a voltmeter connected to the
Battery terminals of the controller and that it is checked for voltage before
the main contactor is engaged.
====================
So, we're not talking about much power going through this relay, but it needs
to
handle up to 295 volts from my 240V nominal nicad pack....
A fuse and 12V relay to pass 0.05 amps at 295 volts? Any suggestions? Before I
hook in a regular automotive relay, who's blown some of these up so I don't
have to?
-Jay
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
All on demand. Always Free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Dave,
Coating the terminals in this way can be done, but in a specific way:
You must first clean the copper until it is bright, like you would do for
copper plumbing fittings inside and out with a copper tubing cleaning brush and
some of those stainless steel tooth brushes.
Do not use Acid core solder or even solder that has a percentage of tin in it.
The H2S04 will start to etch it.
It is best to use pure lead. I use the same lead for making bullets or fishing
weights that you can get from a sporting goods store.
Also use a good tinning solution, not the paste type that plumbers use. You
can get a bottle of tinning solution from a welding supply company, that can be
use for lead solders, aluminum solders, and silver solders. It looks just like
water.
Preheat the copper terminals with a torch until it turns blue, than apply the
tinning solution. When the lead is up to temperature, then dip the terminal
once in the lead and you may have to wipe any excised lead for a smooth
surface.
You could dip the terminal while it is cold, but leave it in longer, so the
terminal gets hot. I find that this is not the best way to do this. The lead
seems to attach like a cold solder joint.
Another way I coated copper buss bars, is to used tinning butter and lead
sticks and apply it to the surface with a torch and than wipe with a damp
cotton cloth for a smooth surface.
You can get this tinning butter and lead sticks from a auto craft store that
sells paint refinishing items and tools for auto body work. The tinning butter
and lead sticks are used in body work instead of using Bondo.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Cover<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
Roland
I'm using the BB600 NiCad cells that have a nickel pad, I definitely don't
want to have any
exposed copper. I'll be using a stainless bolt and washer to hold the lug in
place. I was thinking
of dipping the lugs in a solder pot before crimping them. I have good
adhesive lined heat shrink
tubing to cover the gap between the lug and the insulation.
Someone mentioned using lithium grease to coat the exposed copper. The
lithium grease was supposed
to prevent corrosion without impairing conductivity. Is this true? Anyone
have any experience with
using lithium grease, especially between a lug and the battery/cell pad?
Dave Cover
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> Hello Dave,
>
> The copper un-plated terminal lugs will tarnish and even turn green in a
battery connection. I
> used a heavy duty plated terminal lug, not cast which I got from NAPA for
$2.50 each. These were
> even cheaper than I could get from a wholesale electrical supplier.
>
> I do not direct connected to a battery stud terminal, because these types
of stud terminals,
> will mushroom the battery post and sometimes will pull out.
>
> Even a plated connector touching a lead post, will cause a tarnish spot
between the two, and
> increases the resistance.
>
> In my electrical work, we always place a bi-metal barrier between any two
de-similar metals.
>
> I therefore order gold plated battery clamps from
www.wirthco.com<http://www.wirthco.com/<http://www.wirthco.com<http://wwwwirthco.com/>>
for
> $1.75 each for 100 each all one size to fit the large low profile pad on a
Trojan T-145. I
> clamp it around the pad below the stud and also use a stainless steel
washer, lock washer and
> nut on the stud to put down pressure on the battery clamp.
>
> The battery clamp put pressure on the lead pad, which prevent the post from
mushrooming.
>
> The battery clamps come with a 5/16 bolt and wing nut. I replace the wing
nut with a stainless
> washer, lock washer and nut that the existing terminal lug connect to. I
was able to be able to
> torque all these connections to a much higher rating than specific.
>
> This type of battery connections allows me to use the same links on any
type of batteries that
> may have different post spacing, by just rotating the battery clamps.
>
> After one year of usage, these connections are still as bright as the day I
install them.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave Cover<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: is copper all the same? Piggyback question
>
>
> I'd like to add to the question in regards to copper lugs. Is there a big
difference
> (performance,
> durability, longevity) between the cast copper lugs versus the less
expensive lugs that look
> like
> they are made from copper pipe? Would you be more inclined to crimp or
solder one type versus
> the
> other?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
> --- Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>
> > For all you material science type of people out there, I was curious.
Is
> > there a difference between the type of copper used in the different
types of
> > wires and cables, (such as house wire and stranded hook-up wire)
bus-bars,
> > copper pipes, the big grounding rods, copper from a metal shop, scrap
> > copper, etc. Will each of these have differing amounts of resistance?
Are
> > there potential problems with creating my own bus bars from a metal shop
> > that sells copper?
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
p.s. one bug at the moment is that it doesn't work in Internet Explorer
http://getfirefox.com/
-Jerry
On Jun 22, 2006, at 9:57 AM, jerry halstead wrote:
Hi folks,
I've been working on an updated EV Calculator (initially based on
Uve's & Hemp's work). The goal is to make it more database driven
(i.e. easy to add your own data), add comparison abilities, reduce
the page size, add print formatting, and maybe even make it so you
can bookmark or send configurations to others. Also, the
underlying data will be used in some other tools.
It's still a work in process (i.e. bugs) but you can try it out here:
http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/
Background info and caveats here:
http://www.evconvert.com/eve/battery-tools
I have a question regarding range calculations. I plan to add a
DOD field such that the range shown corresponds to the depth of
discharge entered, probably with a default of 80%. That way new EV
planners won't look at the range numbers and think, "Great, 100
miles of range!" when it's really only 100 miles if you drain your
batteries completely.
My initial thought was to simply multiply the range by the DOD
percent. Is that the best place to do it or should it be done
earlier in the calculation? Here's Uve's formula for range:
batteryPower = motorVolts * motorAmps * (controllerEfficiency /100);
batteryAmps = (batteryPower / voltage) / numString;
range = (puekertNum/ pow (batteryAmps, puekertExp)) * speed;
Thanks.
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Stamp uses a very, very weak type of PIC core. It has almost
nothing for hardware resources, program memory, or RAM. It can only
hold a very small program. It makes much more sense to just get a new
PIC with a whole lot of memory and "stuff" on it. It only costs a few
bucks.
I think the gumstix qualifies as a Single Board Computer. They can do
some pretty useful and flashy things, but a simple microcontroller is
usually more appropriate for simple tasks.
Danny
Harris, Lawrence wrote:
I have also always assumed without really looking that you could in fact
simply use the Stamp hardware and re-flash it with your own code if you
so desired. It's a nice simple piece of hardware and in the educational
world there are lots of projects that have a socket just waiting for the
Stamp to plug in. I have a little robot that does basic operations on
it's own, add a Stamp and it gets smarter, add my own code and it can be
smarter still. Nice little steps to get from "I know nothing" to "I
want to push the boundaries".
If you are looking for something more sophisticated take a look at the
'gumstix'. It's an ARM7 processor board with a full Linux operating
system on board the size of a Wrigley's chewing gum stick. The have a
companion 'robostix' board that adds an ATMega128 co-processor board
(which can run standalone as well).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PICs don't use external memory chips, except in special cases.
The tiny 5v reg on a Stamp is likely to be pointless, because it can't
power the rest of the board requiring you to add a reg anyways. Not
that this is any big deal. A cheap 3 pin device and a couple of caps.
The newer PICs have internal oscillators and internal reset options. So
at that point the only thing the Stamp has is an on-board RS232
transceiver, which is only a $0.50-$2 component with 2 power wires, a
few caps, and 4 signal connections if you want bidirectional comm.
I see where you could argue the case that it's slightly easier to do a
simple starting task. But then you want to build it into a product or
something that needs more power, what do you have? Not a lot of useful
microcontroller experience, no usable code, etc. Basically it's nearly
a dead end street.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
Eric Poulsen wrote:
You don't have to solder: breadboard using a DIP package. You'd have
to know how to design a circuit to use a Basic Stamp effectively.
And, you'd have to test/debug your own PicBASIC code. Only (arguable)
hurdle here is how difficult it is to learn C instead of PicBASIC.
The BASIC Stamp *is* a PIC on a PC board. It's already got the circuits
you would normally have to design and build yourself if you uses a "raw"
microcontroller (5v regulator, clock, reset, memory chip, RS-232
interface, etc.) So, you don't need to design circuits or build a board.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> The Stamp uses a very, very weak type of PIC core. It has almost nothing
for hardware resources,
>> program memory, or RAM. It can only hold a very small program. It makes
much more sense to
>> just get a new PIC with a whole lot of memory and "stuff" on it. It only
costs a few bucks.
Sure, the initial cost of the pic is only a "few bucks", but then what about
compiler, programmer, the learning curve and then helpful information? This
is all fine for a person experienced with microprocessors, or for people
who want to spend lots of time getting setup, but for the newbie it is a
tough learning curve. The Basic STAMP is designed for new people who want
to get up and running quickly, building small circuits and learning about
microprocessors. Their web site is excellent, all the information,
examples, tutorials, manuals in one place.
As stated a number of times before, although the STAMP is limited, it suits
the beginner quite well. Easy to get started, complete kits, great
instruction manuals, an excellent forum and lots of other online resources.
If a person wants to move from the STAMP to a more powerful processor, with
more memory, resources etc, a person can use PicBASIC, which supports nearly
all of the PIC chips. It is compatible with the Basic Stamp code and
requires purchasing a programmer. Its code is also compiled, not interpreted
so it uses memory better than the Basic STAMP. Of course C and assembler
are also other options - these require programmers as well.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: June 22, 2006 10:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BASIC Stamp 2 on sale
I think the gumstix qualifies as a Single Board Computer. They can do some
pretty useful and flashy things, but a simple microcontroller is usually
more appropriate for simple tasks.
Danny
Harris, Lawrence wrote:
>I have also always assumed without really looking that you could in
>fact simply use the Stamp hardware and re-flash it with your own code
>if you so desired. It's a nice simple piece of hardware and in the
>educational world there are lots of projects that have a socket just
>waiting for the Stamp to plug in. I have a little robot that does
>basic operations on it's own, add a Stamp and it gets smarter, add my
>own code and it can be smarter still. Nice little steps to get from "I
>know nothing" to "I want to push the boundaries".
>
>If you are looking for something more sophisticated take a look at the
>'gumstix'. It's an ARM7 processor board with a full Linux operating
>system on board the size of a Wrigley's chewing gum stick. The have a
>companion 'robostix' board that adds an ATMega128 co-processor board
>(which can run standalone as well).
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
The Stamp uses a very, very weak type of PIC core. It has almost
nothing for hardware resources, program memory, or RAM. It can only
hold a very small program. It makes much more sense to just get a new
PIC with a whole lot of memory and "stuff" on it. It only costs a few
bucks.
Speaking of which, does anyone know where to get 68HC711K series chips?
Digikey has them for $30 each, which is a bit steep for something that
can be programmed once....
Even better, any sources for the 68K series that have UV windows?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/22/06, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There are three barriers to getting a shock in an EV:
1. Isolating the battery terminals from the mains and chassis.
2. Detecting an imbalance in the line currents to open the feed.
3. Grounding all touchable surfaces of the vehicle.
I was surprised at Roland's suggestion of violating shock barrier #3.
To be fair, #3 can present a hazard all by itself. If the vehicle is
located some distance from the supply grounding point, the local
"terra" potential may be somewhat different - although not usually
enough to be a hazard. A significant danger appears when there is a
fault of some sort in the supply, causing a much greater difference.
For example, an appliance with a low-resistance path to ground
elsewhere in that system.
This is the reason that all outdoor electrical equipment is now
double-insulated and has no grounded metal parts on it. It's also the
reason that upstairs metal window-frames are not to be grounded, in
case someone standing on a metal ladder makes the connection!
Of course, you cannot sensibly avoid #3 if you have any mains
conductors on board. However, if you use an offboard, isolated charger
such as the Magnecharger (or an offboard isolation transformer), you
would not need to ground the car's body and this would represent a
lower risk, IMHO.
In using a non-isolated charger you are violating #1 by default, and
in my experience, #2 is not to be relied upon alone!
--- End Message ---
