EV Digest 5600
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: FW: Excel data for 0-60mph
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) air conditioning for ev's
by "EVRIDE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Harbor freight bender
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Looking for EV project web log recommendations
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Victory!
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Used and Surplus Motors
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Watt Meter
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Registering EV in CA
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re:
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I suspect the Zilla is outputting the Motor Voltage out of scale. I saw this
while watching the Hex data out in DAQ4 mode the
other day
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:58 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: FW: Excel data for 0-60mph
>
>
> Ok, I now see that there is a problem with this data.
> The motor power exceeds the battery power. Maybe your
> program is bad?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Jun 28, 2006 7:19 AM
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Re: FW: Excel data for 0-60mph
> >
> >
> >Interesting data, but how can the motor voltage exceed the battery voltage
> >by as much as 50% at the higher rpms? Is this a buck-boost controller and
> >if it is doesn't it render the NEDRA voltage classes meaningless as was
> >discussed
> >in an earlier thread on these classes?
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Sent: Jun 27, 2006 11:40 PM
> >>To: EV Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >>Subject: FW: Excel data for 0-60mph
> >>
> >>one more time without me wrapping the text on Send...
> >>After this if it don't work, I tired :-)
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Mike & Paula Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 10:19 PM
> >>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >>Subject: Excel data for 0-60mph
> >>
> >>
> >>Excel Data that was created by the FasTrack software.
> >>The FasTrack Screen shot is pretty spiffy. If you can't run it I put a
> >>screen dump of a whimpy 0-60 mph run at
> >>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
> >>Here Goes.... (oh if this text wraps make the window wider, its fixed space
> >>columns from the FasTrack Excel conversion)
> >>
> >>Seconds Pot RPM Mot AmpsCur Lim Duty Cyc Bat V Mot V Deg. F
> >>Bat Amps Status Codes
> >> 0 -8.6 100 5 1000 0 194.7 0 99.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 0.1 5.4 0 5 1000 0 194.7 0 99.1
> >> 0 0 OMFS
> >> 0.2 60.2 0 5 1000 0 194.7 0 99.1
> >> 0 30 OMFS
> >> 0.3 71 0 235 1000 3.1 194.7 7 99.1
> >> 7.4 30 OMFS
> >> 0.4 72 100 260 1000 3.1 194.7 10.5 99.1
> >> 8.2 27 OMFS
> >> 0.5 84.9 100 275 1000 2.5 194.7 7 99.1
> >> 6.9 30 OMFS
> >> 0.6 100 100 430 1000 6.3 192.9 19.3 99.1
> >> 27 30 OMFS
> >> 0.7 100 100 510 1000 6.3 192.9 21 99.1
> >> 32.1 27 OMFS
> >> 0.8 100 100 525 1000 6.3 192.9 17.5 99.1
> >> 33 30 OMFS
> >> 0.9 100 100 725 1000 13.2 187.7 33.3 99.1
> >> 95.8 30 OMFS
> >> 1 100 200 755 1000 9.4 189.4 29.8 99.1
> >> 71.2 27 OMFS
> >> 1.1 100 300 820 1000 13.8 185.9 33.3 99.1
> >> 113.5 30 OMFS
> >> 1.2 100 300 990 1000 24.5 180.7 54.4 99.1
> >> 242.8 27 OMFS
> >> 1.3 100 500 985 1000 28.3 170.1 64.9 99.1
> >> 278.8 27 OMFS
> >> 1.4 100 900 995 1000 37.1 164.9 84.2 99.1
> >> 369.2 27 OMFS
> >> 1.5 100 900 1010 1000 44.7 164.9 103.5 99.1
> >> 451 27 OMFS
> >> 1.6 100 1200 855 1000 49.1 171.9 122.8 99.1
> >> 419.4 27 OMFS
> >> 1.7 100 1600 1005 1000 57.9 143.8 133.3 99.1
> >> 581.5 27 OMFS
> >> 1.8 100 1600 1005 1000 66 140.3 149.1 99.1
> >> 663.7 27 OMFS
> >> 1.9 100 2000 920 1000 69.2 161.4 154.3 99.1
> >> 636.5 27 OMFS
> >> 2 100 2200 1010 1000 73 142.1 163.1 99.1
> >> 736.9 27 OMFS
> >> 2.1 100 2200 995 1000 84.9 129.8 170.1 99.1
> >> 844.8 27 OMFS
> >> 2.2 100 2300 975 1000 88.1 131.5 182.4 99.1
> >> 858.5 27 OMFS
> >> 2.3 100 2600 1000 1000 93.1 129.8 191.2 99.1
> >> 930.8 27 OMFS
> >> 2.4 100 2600 965 1000 100 131.5 199.9 99.1
> >> 965 30 OMFS
> >> 2.5 100 2700 925 1000 100 133.3 203.5 99.1
> >> 925 30 OMFS
> >> 2.6 100 3000 900 1000 100 135.1 205.2 99.1
> >> 900 30 OMFS
> >> 2.7 100 3000 890 1000 100 135.1 207 100.1
> >> 890 30 OMFS
> >> 2.8 100 3000 870 1000 100 136.8 208.7 100.1
> >> 870 30 OMFS
> >> 2.9 100 3000 865 1000 100 136.8 210.5 100.1
> >> 865 30 OMFS
> >> 3 100 3000 855 1000 100 138.6 210.5 100.1
> >> 855 30 OMFS
> >> 3.1 100 3100 835 1000 100 138.6 212.2 100.1
> >> 835 30 OMFS
> >> 3.2 100 3200 835 1000 100 138.6 212.2 100.1
> >> 835 30 OMFS
> >> 3.3 100 3200 825 1000 100 138.6 212.2 101.2
> >> 825 30 OMFS
> >> 3.4 100 3100 825 1000 100 138.6 212.2 101.2
> >> 825 30 OMFS
> >> 3.5 100 3200 825 1000 100 138.6 212.2 101.2
> >> 825 30 OMFS
> >> 3.6 100 3200 780 1000 95 142.1 212.2 101.2
> >> 740.8 30 OMFS
> >> 3.7 100 3200 800 1000 95 142.1 208.7 102.2
> >> 759.7 30 OMFS
> >> 3.8 100 3100 810 1000 95 142.1 208.7 102.2
> >> 769.2 30 OMFS
> >> 3.9 100 3100 775 1000 88.1 147.3 203.5 102.2
> >> 682.4 30 OMFS
> >> 4 100 3100 775 1000 83.6 149.1 196.4 103.2
> >> 648.3 30 OMFS
> >> 4.1 100 2900 740 1000 73.6 154.3 182.4 103.2
> >> 544.5 30 OMFS
> >> 4.2 100 2900 685 1000 66 161.4 171.9 103.2
> >> 452.4 27 OMFS
> >> 4.3 100 2600 755 1000 76.7 152.6 180.7 103.2
> >> 579.3 30 OMFS
> >> 4.4 100 2800 775 1000 78.6 150.8 182.4 104.3
> >> 609.3 30 OMFS
> >> 4.5 100 2800 755 1000 78.6 152.6 182.4 104.3
> >> 593.6 30 OMFS
> >> 4.6 100 2800 780 1000 83.6 149.1 191.2 104.3
> >> 652.5 30 OMFS
> >> 4.7 100 2900 805 1000 88.1 145.6 196.4 104.3
> >> 708.8 30 OMFS
> >> 4.8 100 2900 805 1000 89.3 143.8 198.2 105.3
> >> 718.9 30 OMFS
> >> 4.9 100 3000 790 1000 90.6 145.6 201.7 105.3
> >> 715.5 30 OMFS
> >> 5 100 3100 785 1000 92.5 143.8 205.2 105.3
> >> 725.8 30 OMFS
> >> 5.1 100 3100 775 1000 95 143.8 208.7 106.3
> >> 736 30 OMFS
> >> 5.2 100 3200 770 1000 95 143.8 210.5 106.3
> >> 731.3 30 OMFS
> >> 5.3 100 3300 735 1000 95 145.6 212.2 106.3
> >> 698 30 OMFS
> >> 5.4 100 3300 725 1000 95 145.6 214 107.4
> >> 688.5 30 OMFS
> >> 5.5 100 3400 710 1000 95 147.3 214 107.4
> >> 674.3 30 OMFS
> >> 5.6 100 3400 690 1000 95 147.3 217.5 107.4
> >> 655.3 30 OMFS
> >> 5.7 100 3400 680 1000 95 149.1 217.5 108.4
> >> 645.8 30 OMFS
> >> 5.8 100 3500 695 1000 97.5 145.6 224.5 108.4
> >> 677.5 30 OMFS
> >> 5.9 100 3600 685 1000 97.5 147.3 224.5 108.4
> >> 667.8 30 OMFS
> >> 6 100 3600 680 1000 97.5 147.3 226.3 109.5
> >> 662.9 30 OMFS
> >> 6.1 100 3700 655 1000 97.5 147.3 228 109.5
> >> 638.5 30 OMFS
> >> 6.2 100 3800 645 1000 97.5 149.1 228 109.5
> >> 628.8 30 OMFS
> >> 6.3 100 3800 635 1000 97.5 149.1 229.8 110.5
> >> 619 30 OMFS
> >> 6.4 100 3800 625 1000 100 149.1 229.8 110.5
> >> 625 30 OMFS
> >> 6.5 100 3900 625 1000 100 150.8 231.5 110.5
> >> 625 30 OMFS
> >> 6.6 100 3900 615 1000 100 150.8 231.5 110.5
> >> 615 30 OMFS
> >> 6.7 100 3900 610 1000 97.5 150.8 233.3 111.5
> >> 594.7 30 OMFS
> >> 6.8 100 4000 595 1000 97.5 152.6 233.3 111.5
> >> 580 30 OMFS
> >> 6.9 100 4000 575 1000 97.5 152.6 235 111.5
> >> 560.5 30 OMFS
> >> 7 100 4100 560 1000 97.5 154.3 235 112.6
> >> 545.9 30 OMFS
> >> 7.1 100 4100 570 1000 97.5 152.6 236.8 112.6
> >> 555.7 30 OMFS
> >> 7.2 100 4100 570 1000 97.5 152.6 236.8 112.6
> >> 555.7 30 OMFS
> >> 7.3 100 4200 545 1000 97.5 154.3 236.8 112.6
> >> 531.3 30 OMFS
> >> 7.4 100 4200 550 1000 97.5 154.3 236.8 113.6
> >> 536.2 30 OMFS
> >> 7.5 100 4200 545 1000 97.5 154.3 238.5 113.6
> >> 531.3 30 OMFS
> >> 7.6 100 4200 550 1000 100 154.3 238.5 113.6
> >> 550 30 OMFS
> >> 7.7 100 4400 540 1000 97.5 156.1 238.5 113.6
> >> 526.4 30 OMFS
> >> 7.8 100 4400 530 1000 97.5 156.1 240.3 114.6
> >> 516.7 30 OMFS
> >> 7.9 100 4300 530 1000 97.5 156.1 240.3 114.6
> >> 516.7 30 OMFS
> >> 8 100 4400 520 1000 97.5 156.1 240.3 114.6
> >> 506.9 30 OMFS
> >> 8.1 100 4400 470 1000 94.3 161.4 235 115.7
> >> 443.4 30 OMFS
> >> 8.2 100 4500 465 1000 92.5 161.4 231.5 115.7
> >> 429.9 30 OMFS
> >> 8.3 100 4500 475 1000 95 159.6 236.8 115.7
> >> 451.1 30 OMFS
> >> 8.4 100 4500 480 1000 95 159.6 236.8 115.7
> >> 455.8 30 OMFS
> >> 8.5 100 4500 500 1000 97.5 157.9 243.8 115.7
> >> 487.4 30 OMFS
> >> 8.6 100 4500 495 1000 97.5 157.9 243.8 115.7
> >> 482.5 30 OMFS
> >> 8.7 100 4500 495 1000 97.5 157.9 243.8 116.7
> >> 482.5 30 OMFS
> >> 8.8 100 4600 485 1000 100 157.9 245.5 116.7
> >> 485 30 OMFS
> >> 8.9 100 4700 475 1000 100 157.9 243.8 116.7
> >> 475 30 OMFS
> >> 9 100 4700 470 1000 100 159.6 245.5 116.7
> >> 470 30 OMFS
> >> 9.1 100 4600 475 1000 100 159.6 245.5 117.7
> >> 475 30 OMFS
> >> 9.2 11.8 4700 265 1000 67.3 177.1 222.7 117.7
> >> 178.3 30 OMFS
> >> 9.3 -7.5 4700 5 1000 0 189.4 33.3 117.7
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 9.4 -8.6 4600 5 1000 0 191.2 5.3 117.7
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 9.5 -8.6 4600 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 117.7
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 9.6 49.5 4600 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 117.7
> >> 0 2B OMFS
> >> 9.7 100 4500 95 1000 20.1 191.2 61.4 117.7
> >> 19.1 30 OMFS
> >> 9.8 100 4200 515 1000 78.6 164.9 201.7 118.8
> >> 404.9 30 OMFS
> >> 9.9 100 4200 705 1000 92.5 147.3 212.2 118.8
> >> 651.8 30 OMFS
> >> 10 100 3400 825 1000 100 136.8 210.5 118.8
> >> 825 30 OMFS
> >> 10.1 100 3100 815 1000 100 138.6 212.2 118.8
> >> 815 30 OMFS
> >> 10.2 100 3100 805 1000 100 138.6 210.5 118.8
> >> 805 30 OMFS
> >> 10.3 100 3100 805 1000 100 138.6 212.2 118.8
> >> 805 30 OMFS
> >> 10.4 100 3100 790 1000 100 140.3 214 118.8
> >> 790 30 OMFS
> >> 10.5 100 3100 785 1000 100 140.3 214 118.8
> >> 785 30 OMFS
> >> 10.6 100 3200 775 1000 100 140.3 214 119.8
> >> 775 30 OMFS
> >> 10.7 100 3200 770 1000 100 140.3 215.7 119.8
> >> 770 30 OMFS
> >> 10.8 100 3200 770 1000 100 140.3 215.7 119.8
> >> 770 30 OMFS
> >> 10.9 100 3300 755 1000 100 142.1 215.7 119.8
> >> 755 30 OMFS
> >> 11 100 3300 765 1000 100 142.1 215.7 119.8
> >> 765 30 OMFS
> >> 11.1 100 3300 740 1000 100 142.1 217.5 119.8
> >> 740 30 OMFS
> >> 11.2 100 3300 740 1000 100 142.1 217.5 119.8
> >> 740 30 OMFS
> >> 11.3 100 3300 730 1000 100 142.1 217.5 119.8
> >> 730 30 OMFS
> >> 11.4 100 3300 735 1000 100 142.1 219.2 120.9
> >> 735 30 OMFS
> >> 11.5 100 3400 730 1000 100 143.8 219.2 120.9
> >> 730 30 OMFS
> >> 11.6 100 3300 720 1000 100 143.8 221 120.9
> >> 720 30 OMFS
> >> 11.7 100 3300 710 1000 100 143.8 219.2 120.9
> >> 710 30 OMFS
> >> 11.8 100 3500 700 1000 100 143.8 221 120.9
> >> 700 30 OMFS
> >> 11.9 100 3400 705 1000 100 145.6 221 120.9
> >> 705 30 OMFS
> >> 12 100 3400 705 1000 100 143.8 222.7 120.9
> >> 705 30 OMFS
> >> 12.1 100 3500 690 1000 100 143.8 222.7 121.9
> >> 690 30 OMFS
> >> 12.2 100 3500 690 1000 100 145.6 222.7 121.9
> >> 690 30 OMFS
> >> 12.3 100 3500 685 1000 100 145.6 222.7 121.9
> >> 685 30 OMFS
> >> 12.4 100 3500 670 1000 100 145.6 224.5 121.9
> >> 670 30 OMFS
> >> 12.5 100 3500 685 1000 100 145.6 224.5 121.9
> >> 685 30 OMFS
> >> 12.6 100 3500 670 1000 100 145.6 224.5 122.9
> >> 670 30 OMFS
> >> 12.7 100 3600 665 1000 100 145.6 224.5 122.9
> >> 665 30 OMFS
> >> 12.8 100 3600 665 1000 100 145.6 224.5 122.9
> >> 665 30 OMFS
> >> 12.9 100 3600 655 1000 100 147.3 224.5 122.9
> >> 655 30 OMFS
> >> 13 100 3600 660 1000 100 145.6 224.5 122.9
> >> 660 30 OMFS
> >> 13.1 100 3600 650 1000 100 147.3 226.3 124
> >> 650 30 OMFS
> >> 13.2 100 3600 655 1000 100 147.3 226.3 124
> >> 655 30 OMFS
> >> 13.3 100 3700 645 1000 100 147.3 226.3 124
> >> 645 30 OMFS
> >> 13.4 100 3600 650 1000 100 147.3 226.3 124
> >> 650 30 OMFS
> >> 13.5 100 3600 635 1000 100 147.3 228 124
> >> 635 30 OMFS
> >> 13.6 100 3700 635 1000 100 147.3 228 125
> >> 635 30 OMFS
> >> 13.7 100 3700 630 1000 100 149.1 228 125
> >> 630 30 OMFS
> >> 13.8 100 3700 630 1000 100 149.1 228 125
> >> 630 30 OMFS
> >> 13.9 100 3800 635 1000 100 147.3 228 125
> >> 635 30 OMFS
> >> 14 100 3700 620 1000 100 149.1 228 125
> >> 620 30 OMFS
> >> 14.1 100 3700 625 1000 100 149.1 228 125
> >> 625 30 OMFS
> >> 14.2 100 3800 630 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> >> 630 30 OMFS
> >> 14.3 100 3800 615 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> >> 615 30 OMFS
> >> 14.4 100 3800 605 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> >> 605 30 OMFS
> >> 14.5 100 3800 620 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> >> 620 30 OMFS
> >> 14.6 100 3800 620 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> >> 620 30 OMFS
> >> 14.7 100 3800 605 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> >> 605 30 OMFS
> >> 14.8 100 3800 595 1000 97.5 150.8 229.8 127.1
> >> 580 30 OMFS
> >> 14.9 100 3900 570 1000 95 152.6 231.5 127.1
> >> 541.3 30 OMFS
> >> 15 100 3900 500 1000 85.5 159.6 214 127.1
> >> 427.7 30 OMFS
> >> 15.1 100 3800 465 1000 82.4 163.1 208.7 127.1
> >> 383.1 30 OMFS
> >> 15.2 100 3900 475 1000 82.4 163.1 208.7 127.1
> >> 391.4 30 OMFS
> >> 15.3 100 3900 435 1000 78.6 166.6 201.7 127.1
> >> 342 30 OMFS
> >> 15.4 100 3900 295 1000 63.5 175.4 178.9 127.1
> >> 187.4 30 OMFS
> >> 15.5 100 3900 290 1000 62.3 177.1 171.9 128.1
> >> 180.6 30 OMFS
> >> 15.6 86 3900 270 1000 58.5 178.9 161.4 128.1
> >> 157.9 30 OMFS
> >> 15.7 44.1 3800 65 1000 31.4 187.7 115.8 128.1
> >> 20.4 30 OMFS
> >> 15.8 -1.1 3900 15 1000 8.8 189.4 68.4 128.1
> >> 1.3 23 SOMFS
> >> 15.9 -8.6 3900 5 1000 0 191.2 8.8 128.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 191.2 3.5 128.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.1 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 128.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.2 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 128.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.3 -8.6 3900 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 129.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.4 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 129.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.5 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 192.9 1.8 129.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.6 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 192.9 0 129.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.7 -8.6 3700 5 1000 0 192.9 0 129.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.8 -8.6 3700 5 1000 0 192.9 0 129.1
> >> 0 23 SOMFS
> >> 16.9 8.6 3800 5 1000 0 192.9 0 129.1
> >> 0 0 OMFS
> >>
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It shouldn't be a problem to bring a/c to an ev. You can either drive the
> compressor from the (auxillary?) shaft of your motor or have a dedicated
> 1/2 horse motor to drive the compressor.
>
I used an online calculator which converted 1/2 hp to .37 kw. I have a 300 watt
electric motor I
was hoping to use to drive my air conditioning compressor. A littel light,
but... Any opinions on
whether this would fit the bill? I could take the electric clutch off the
compressor and drive it
directly to save some power. The same circuit that cycled the clutch would just
cycle the relay
switching the motor on and off.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Air conditioning is provided with an electric-motor driven
compressor-condenser-evaporator system, meaning you will use a separate motor
(unless you are lucky enough to have a dual-shaft motor, but then you only have
cooling when moving, and at that, above 1000 RPM minimum to achieve much
cooling and also putting additional battery drain no matter how you achieve
this) and a pulley with a belt to drive the compressor. This works on RWD
trucks best, but can be done on a transverse FWD setup. Also, without great
pulley reduction, the first time you get near 8,000-10,000 RPM your compressor
will no longer run quietly!
Using a separate motor (1.5 HP or greater) you can use the factory or any
automotive compressor and utilize the (already-present in most cars and trucks
if converting from ICE to EV) condenser/evaporator and dash controls. Remember
you'll still need the radiator/condenser fans for air circulation when at idle,
and those can also be switched with a speed/motion sensor. You can also use ANY
(read this as most efficient) compressor you like, and of course, an
ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY refrigerant. A system can be built with the new R-410A
but special hoses will be needed due to the high pressures. This is better than
R134a, which while a lot better than the now defunct R-12 Freon, is still
easier on the atmosphere if lost to a leak.
I hope this helps. There are pictures out there of conversions and their AC
systems on the net.
-EVRIDER
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
I have been driving a Lectric Leopard converted Renault LeCar
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/727 daily since the first of the year. As it
is real warm here in Nashville, had been thinking of how to handle air
conditioning for months now.
There are probably ways to drive a car's AC compressor with a small DC
motor, but this car never had AC, so am experimenting (with success) using
ice. Since my trips are local and never exceed four hours, I designed
cooling with that in mind.
There is a chest freezer in the garage located next to the passenger door of
the car. It holds 18 HDPE jugs, each containing 10 lb of ice.
http://tinyurl.com/mpfc7 I load 9 of these into the ice box in the car
(there is a small air gap between each jug), and then leave the garage with
the 12VDC 14 inch radiator fan that is bolted to the side of the box blowing
air towards the driver's seat. The fan has a 10 amp PWM speed control to
adjust the air delivery. The 90 lb of ice cools the car well for up to 4
hours. I have used it four times so far this summer, and expect to use it
daily in July and August and into September. It reduces the interior temp by
15 degrees and removes excess humidity. It stays very comfortable.
The ice box has a mesh side to let air blow through and solid bottom to
collect condensation with a drain. http://tinyurl.com/pfr68 #EF6421
On return to the garage, the 9 melted jugs are returned to the freezer, they
freeze overnight. The load or unload of jugs takes just 2 minutes.
One advantage of ice is that you can leave the fan blowing while in a store
and keep the car cool for groceries or leaving pets inside.
Then I will remove the ice box from the car in the fall and reinstall the
little heater that was there for winter use.
I got the idea from some very small units http://tinyurl.com/jdmed that use
crushed ice and blow air over it or use cold water for a transfer medium
http://www.willcool.com/index.html to a fan blowing over a wick. I chose the
air transfer to the jugs and a big radiator fan because I knew it needed at
least 80 lb ice to deliver the cooling required and good air flow to
transfer the heat, and didn't want to handle all that melted water and ice
cubes, too difficult and expensive. The narrow jugs work fine and contain
the water, reused easily. I have 18 jugs instead of 9 so that if I use the
car in the daytime, recharge it and then again at night, I will have fresh
ice each time.
As a $3000 alternative, there are numerous 12VDC, 24VDC, and 48VDC self
contained roof units with compressor and evaporator and fans.
http://tinyurl.com/ekusl
http://www.wagners12voltair.com/product.htm
http://www.dcbreeze.com/
http://www.varsityinteractive.com/polar/trucks.php
http://www.nitesystem.com/index.cfm/about/
http://www.thermocompressor.biz/
Glad to supply more details and photos if anyone is interested.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:30 AM
Subject: air conditioning for ev's
> Does anyone know if it's possible and what it takes to bring Air
Conditioning
> to a EV?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Phillips
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike; Check out item # 140001465537 on E bay this may give you some
idea's for a home brew. Someone once told me that it took a 1 HP motor
BTW ? for you. If I was to buy a US Electricar S10, minus the controler,
is the box' big enought to hold 144V worth of batterys ( 6 Volt) ??
Ol_Joe in Cincy
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:30 AM
Subject: air conditioning for ev's
> Does anyone know if it's possible and what it takes to bring Air
Conditioning
> to a EV?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Phillips
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My USE truck came with the ac core in the dash as well as the
controls. It just didn't have the compressor, motor controller and I
think the condensor. So some of it is there. I'll look up the parts
you mentioned. I still have about 10lbs of R-12 in a 30lb bottle. So I
could go that way. Just a matter of parts. I'm not sure which
refridgerant the S10 had in 1994.
Mike
PS Then again this just shortens my 15 mile range even more :)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> mike phillips wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know if it's possible and what it takes to bring Air
Conditioning
> > to a EV?
> >
> >
> >
> Only a handful of people have done it (a lot of EVers live in mild
> climates), but its not really a tough thing overall. It does involve
> farming out some work to an AC shop, since you will often need to
> open/reroute the refrigerant lines. I recommend having an AC shop
> recover the refrigerant form the lines ahead of time on the conversion
> anyway, since working in the engine bay is a lot easier without having
> the AC compressor and lines in the way.)
>
> The simplest solution for EV AC is to reuse the existing AC compressor,
> and spin it from the tailshaft of your motor. A simple pulley and
belt
> arrangement is fast and adjustable. You won't have AC when stopped
> (unless you idle the motor) but unless you're stopped at a lot of
> traffic lights that isn't necessarily a problem.
>
> The next option is keep the existing compressor, but spin it with a DC
> motor. Treadmill motors are a inexpensive and popular 120V option, but
> they are a tad underpowered and tend to live short lives. Better
> quality motors are available surplus, usually replacements from
> industrial conveyer systems. (DC motors used to be the only affordable
> option for variable speed drive, but cheap 3 phase AC variable speed
> inverters and motors are replacing them)
>
> If you have to move the compressor to a new location you may need to
> build longer hoses, an AC shop can help you here as well.
>
> If your donor car previously had an R-12 refrigerant system you will
> probably want to change it over to a R-134A system. (R-12 is between
> 2-5 times more expensive right now) Since you'll be doing a lot of
> fabrication anyway consider replacing the condensor coil with a newer
> parallel flow coil and changing out the expansion valve with a variable
> valve. R-134A is only about 80% as effective as R-12, but having the
> better condensor and the variable flow expansion valve will make up
most
> of the difference.
>
> Adding AC to a donor that did not previously had it can be a bit
> trickier, Vintage Air has some parts and tools to help here.
>
> Mark Farver
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I've been thinking about AC, since I must say that a car without it
isn't going to be acceptable to normal people. Running the compressor
off the drive motor won't work if the car is at idle. So really the
solution would be to add a DC motor that drives the compressor so it can
be on all the time (when AC is turned on). And for simplicity, it
should probably be a belt drive so the compressor doesn't have to
change. What size motor is my question. I saw earlier, 1/2 HP
mentioned, that seems small, it robs a lot of ICE power to have AC
turned on, it seems it robs more than 1/2 HP.
Jack
Mark Farver wrote:
mike phillips wrote:
Does anyone know if it's possible and what it takes to bring Air
Conditioning
to a EV?
Only a handful of people have done it (a lot of EVers live in mild
climates), but its not really a tough thing overall. It does involve
farming out some work to an AC shop, since you will often need to
open/reroute the refrigerant lines. I recommend having an AC shop
recover the refrigerant form the lines ahead of time on the conversion
anyway, since working in the engine bay is a lot easier without having
the AC compressor and lines in the way.)
The simplest solution for EV AC is to reuse the existing AC compressor,
and spin it from the tailshaft of your motor. A simple pulley and belt
arrangement is fast and adjustable. You won't have AC when stopped
(unless you idle the motor) but unless you're stopped at a lot of
traffic lights that isn't necessarily a problem.
The next option is keep the existing compressor, but spin it with a DC
motor. Treadmill motors are a inexpensive and popular 120V option, but
they are a tad underpowered and tend to live short lives. Better
quality motors are available surplus, usually replacements from
industrial conveyer systems. (DC motors used to be the only affordable
option for variable speed drive, but cheap 3 phase AC variable speed
inverters and motors are replacing them)
If you have to move the compressor to a new location you may need to
build longer hoses, an AC shop can help you here as well.
If your donor car previously had an R-12 refrigerant system you will
probably want to change it over to a R-134A system. (R-12 is between
2-5 times more expensive right now) Since you'll be doing a lot of
fabrication anyway consider replacing the condensor coil with a newer
parallel flow coil and changing out the expansion valve with a variable
valve. R-134A is only about 80% as effective as R-12, but having the
better condensor and the variable flow expansion valve will make up most
of the difference.
Adding AC to a donor that did not previously had it can be a bit
trickier, Vintage Air has some parts and tools to help here.
Mark Farver
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Bummer! But thanks for posting, I hadn't thought about that
limitation.
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I bought the Harbor freight 36" bender capable of bending "up to 16
> gauge stainless" to bend 16 gauge aluminum for a box for the zilla
> and
> associated electronics.
>
> The worst experiance of my EV live, Man what a crock. The fine
> print
> must say something about 16 gauge limited to 6" wide because at 24"
> wide
> it was impossible. The unit just bows and flexes out.
>
> Why do I do this to myself? To save you the headache?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<http://www.evforge.net> -- it's purpose is to provide free hosting
for conversion web sites. No ads, either, really nice!
Not a ton of content yet, but here is my page on it:
<http://9Electric.evforge.net>
--- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good site for putting together a web log (w/
> photos)
> of an EV conversion, as I would like to document mine from start to
> finish.
> I was thinking that cardomain.com might be the way to go, but
> figured you
> folks might have some other ideas.
>
> Thx, Mike
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's another low-tech option:
http://www.roshgo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=rc01/CTGY/00408
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:00 AM
To: mike phillips
Cc: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
It shouldn't be a problem to bring a/c to an ev. You can either drive the
compressor from the (auxillary?) shaft of your motor or have a dedicated
1/2 horse motor to drive the compressor. All other parts of the a/c unit
would be re-usable as they were in the ICE.
The previous owner ripped all a/c parts off my truck and I would have to
start to put them all back again. Given the fact, that I am not a mechanic
and wouldn't know how to get the above solutions into my truck, I did some
experiments with 'alternative' cooling.
a) ICE (as in frozen water): I had a cooler full of ice in the bed of my
truck . A cheap 12V submerged 'bilge' type pump supplied the cold water
through insulated hoses to an oil-cooler type heat exchanger embedded in
the ventilation system of the car. I worked well, but condensation water
was an issue and the system needed LOTS of ice. And I mean: By the pound.
Frozen water bottles or ice packs didn't work too well.
b) I was able to get a small 110V a/c unit. This system was meant to cool
dog-houses (yep, some people put climate control into their dog houses).
The unit was rated 2500 BTUs and I was able to drive the unit with an
ExcelTech 120V DC to household AC inverter. The results were neglible.
2500 BTUs are by far not enough to have any significant impact.
I am now planning to buy an aftermarket system from vintageair
(www.vintageair.com) and put it in my truck. I am going with a seperate
motor to drive the compressor as this gives me the opportunity to keep the
a/c running while the car is off (to keep my pet climated while I am
shopping) :)
Hope this information helps.
Michaela
> Does anyone know if it's possible and what it takes to bring Air
> Conditioning
> to a EV?
--- End Message ---
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Mike Phillips wrote:
I have just finished spending every waking hour for something like a
week, trying to debug 4 main boards for US Elctricar vehicles. The main
board in my truck is dead too. While charging overnight it popped a few
parts and quit working. Mind you this board has a couple
microprocessors and many, many hundreds of support components. No
schematic available anywhere on the planet to boot! Multi layer too.
Not to mention the circuit board material turns to conductive carbon at
the least sign of a component failure. Creates inner layer shorts. I
should have purchased xray glasses when I had the chance as a kid.
Definately enjoy the victory donut. I will agree that these things can
be kind of addictive; I spent most of a day straight fixing my first FET
blowout.
But the key is they are fixable. Just takes time, effort, and serious
thought.
Chris
(yes, I'll pull the Prizm's 711 tonight and read it in. Sometimes you
have to play for all the marbles)
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mike; Check out item # 140001465537 on E bay this may give you some
idea's for a home brew. Someone once told me that it took a 1 HP motor
*nod* I have been thinking about that one as well, especially because
the guy is also selling a 300 volt (well, 250-400 volt) controller for
that same motor.
In other words, everything you need but the hard lines. And technically
you can probably use the stock S10 lines and stick the motor in there
somewhere. Shouldn't be too hard.
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
If your donor car previously had an R-12 refrigerant system you will
probably want to change it over to a R-134A system. (R-12 is between
2-5 times more expensive right now) Since you'll be doing a lot of
fabrication anyway consider replacing the condensor coil with a newer
parallel flow coil and changing out the expansion valve with a variable
valve. R-134A is only about 80% as effective as R-12, but having the
better condensor and the variable flow expansion valve will make up most
of the difference.
Also make sure to put significant fan power on the evaporator coil. AC
systems dump all that heat somewhere, and you need at least one good fan
(to be honest I'd put in two) to dissipate it.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Powers wrote:
If the below motor on e-bay is what I think it is, it is a pretty common motor. I think
it may be the same one that that other guy was selling off his inventory of, but I can't
be sure. It is not the same guy, but looks to be the same motor (except used). I did
confirm it is 7" x 14" and it appears to have only 2 terminals.
E-bay item number: 220001377987
I got one that looks just like that. Same four case bolts, location of
the terminals, and the four-braid brush connections. Built like a
Sherman tank with nice meaty brushes.
Mine's a Prestolite 4002 MKH - series wound, 36V. Jim Husted gave me
these specs:
----------------------------------------------------------
7 1/8 frame size. 36 volt OEM. CCWDE. 8 brushes, 4 pole.
Prestolite test specs.
VOLTS AMPS RPM TORQUE Ft. Lbs.
36 19 3250 Min. 0
36 175 1880 to 2100 17.5
It takes
MKH 2006S armature
MGP 1012S Brushes
MKH 3005AS field coils
And was manufactured for Tennant.
----------------------------------------------------------
I paid $100 for mine and was quite happy. The one I got has a tailshaft
and came with QD-bushing pulleys on both ends, though.
~ Peanut Gallery ~
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Mark Farver wrote:
Mark E. Hanson wrote:
Hi Folk's
Has anyone heard of Valence Technology Batteries, are they worth
fooling with? I'm not a chemist but the claims look good on paper
:-) www.Valence.com
If you go back thru the archives you can find a lot of previous
information. The battery tech is pretty good, but expensive, and is
current limited below what most of us need for EVs. Valance is having
some supply and management problems so it is difficult to obtain
batteries from them, even if you have cash in hand.
Just for reference, here are their prices as of 6/19/2006:
U1-12RTL: $600 per unit
U1-12RT, U1-12XP: $860 per unit
U24-12RT, U24-12XP: $2030 per unit
U27-12RT, U27-12XP: $2550 per unit
UEV-18XP: $1935 per unit
Its unbelievable, isn't it?
Valence threw a lot of engineering time and effort into building
battery packs for the Segway, but I suspect that market is not large
enough to pay the bills. (Especially rent on their river/bridge view
offices in Austin's expensive west hills area)
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
At 10:24 AM 6/28/2006, you wrote:
I've been thinking about AC, since I must say that a car without it isn't
going to be acceptable to normal people. Running the compressor off the
drive motor won't work if the car is at idle. So really the solution
would be to add a DC motor that drives the compressor so it can be on all
the time (when AC is turned on). And for simplicity, it should probably
be a belt drive so the compressor doesn't have to change. What size motor
is my question. I saw earlier, 1/2 HP mentioned, that seems small, it
robs a lot of ICE power to have AC turned on, it seems it robs more than
1/2 HP.
Jack
My great grandfather never owned a vehicle with AC, died in 62.
My grandfather never owned a vehicle with AC, died in the 50s.
My father lived half his life before getting a vehicle with AC, still
moving, and for the last 15 years he has not had AC, but mom does. :)
You saying my ancestors are not normal? :)
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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Dave Cover wrote:
--- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It shouldn't be a problem to bring a/c to an ev. You can either drive the
compressor from the (auxillary?) shaft of your motor or have a dedicated
1/2 horse motor to drive the compressor.
I used an online calculator which converted 1/2 hp to .37 kw. I have a 300 watt
electric motor I
was hoping to use to drive my air conditioning compressor. A littel light,
but... Any opinions on
whether this would fit the bill? I could take the electric clutch off the
compressor and drive it
directly to save some power. The same circuit that cycled the clutch would just
cycle the relay
switching the motor on and off.
Depends on how marginal the motor is. A 1/2HP continuous rated motor is
a bit low, I would shoot for a least a full HP continuous. You will
probably need bursts up to 3 HP, a 1HP motor will be able to take the
high load better.
OTOH, there is a direct link between HP consumed and heat transferred.
A skilled AC guy can balance the refrigerant charge in such a way to
avoid large demands on the motor, at the expense of peak cooling
power. In an EV where you can precool the car off the wall outlet, run
the compressor continuously and not have engine heat affecting the
system the lower cooling power may be acceptable.
Mark
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Is there a watt meter that goes up to 400 amps similar to the
"Watt's Up" watt meter
http://www.rc-cars-planes.com/rc-watt-meter_n.html?wurd5
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I just received the plates and registration for my Bradley GTE. I used a
registration service in LA. called DMVRS at
http://www.voyager.com/dmvrs/ I had to take it to the CHP for vin
verification, and they did the rest. Seems to be a good place for
problem registrations.
Bill
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The PFC charger's case is Earth grounded inside the case.
And we don't connect Neutral to anything side the case.
So bolting a PFC charger to the chassis of your EV Basically connects the
chassis to earth ground.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:27 AM
Hi All,
Can you use a PFC Charger (non-isolated) with a EV that has a common ground
between the traction pack and the Auxillary pack.
If so, do you have to ground the PFC charger case (Ac Earth) to the car
chassis (the car is AC earthed while charging).
On the other hand.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
New year, new job - there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=752315885&_r=Jan05_tagline&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
