EV Digest 5601
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Watt Meter
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Harbor freight bender
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: air conditioning for ev's, use mechanical advantage?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: air conditioning for ev's, use mechanical advantage?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: air conditioning for ev's, use mechanical advantage?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Harbor freight bender
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) WKTEC
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: 300ZX Hybrid
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) GTech Pro Meter- will it pick up EV rpm?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: How many Evs are there
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Current Eliminator News
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) front-wheel drive generic conversion question
by "David Sofio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: 1993 192V Ranger Conversion
by "Steven Potter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: front-wheel drive generic conversion question
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Jim Husted did something to my motor
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) bender...and cutting
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Prius PHEV, was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Used and Surplus Motors
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) need Curtis 1221R manual
by "Markus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I ordered 12 U24-12XP batteries and a U-BMS-XP-HV
battery management unit. I just received the BMS, and
my batteries ship this week from China. They are
pricey, but on paper they meet my specific needs --
specific energy, specific power (600A peak for quick
acceleration vs. 300A posted), and no thermal runaway
-- and shouldn't cost me more than a few dollars per
day over gasoline over the long term. I will report
back with my results once I'm on the road. See
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733 for details.
Chris Jones
carefully converting my '66 Mustang
Santa Rosa, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> My great grandfather never owned a vehicle with AC, died in 62.
> My grandfather never owned a vehicle with AC, died in the 50s.
> My father lived half his life before getting a vehicle with AC, still
> moving, and for the last 15 years he has not had AC, but mom does. :)
>
> You saying my ancestors are not normal? :)
>
> __________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
>
2 words: global warming
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jmygann wrote:
Is there a watt meter that goes up to 400 amps similar to the
"Watt's Up" watt meter
http://www.rc-cars-planes.com/rc-watt-meter_n.html?wurd5
At 400amps you're looking at commercial watthour meters.... not cheap.
Residential watthour meters are available up to 200-250amps on ebay for
about $50US.
400amps is some serious power.. maybe you meant 40amps?
If you're looking to measure an electric vehicles charge/discharge you
want the Link-10 or E-Meter from Xantrax. Its available from most EV
parts suppliers like KTA Services (http://kta-ev.com)
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The best air-moving device is an 18" radiator fan off a Lincoln Mark 8
(VIII). There are ones on eBay frequently.
Aftermarket radiator fans are pretty pathetic despite the labelling
claims. People buy one or even two and it is less airflow than the
stock fan. More of a problem is two small fans won't pull air over much
of the radiator. But Lincoln fan moves something like 5000cfm, and has
a big air should that fits the entire radiator or can be modified
(trimmed) to a smaller one.
It is supposed to take like 30 amps DC though. However, you can pwm it
to slow it down if this isn't what you need all the time. I'm pretty
sure running that fan at half speed is going to be more efficient than
running a couple of aftermarket fans at full speed for the same cfm.
Danny
Christopher Zach wrote:
If your donor car previously had an R-12 refrigerant system you will
probably want to change it over to a R-134A system. (R-12 is between
2-5 times more expensive right now) Since you'll be doing a lot of
fabrication anyway consider replacing the condensor coil with a newer
parallel flow coil and changing out the expansion valve with a
variable valve. R-134A is only about 80% as effective as R-12, but
having the better condensor and the variable flow expansion valve
will make up most of the difference.
Also make sure to put significant fan power on the evaporator coil. AC
systems dump all that heat somewhere, and you need at least one good
fan (to be honest I'd put in two) to dissipate it.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
It is supposed to take like 30 amps DC though. However, you can pwm
it to slow it down if this isn't what you need all the time. I'm
pretty sure running that fan at half speed is going to be more
efficient than running a couple of aftermarket fans at full speed for
the same cfm.
Many cars have dual speed fans. Late 1990-2000's Taurus's have a 3 pin
fan connector for a high and low speed. The taurus is especially nice
becuase it has two fans side by side, both dual speed, so you can really
play with the airflow.
Or you can do series/parallel switching of dual fans to get two speeds.
My 1987 MR2 does it that way.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger - where did you get your copper bus bar? I would like to use some of
that for my EV
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Harbor freight bender
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Why do I do this to myself? To save you the headache?
And don't think it isn't appreciated! ;^>
I've got a little (~6" wide) brake that works great for fabricating
brackets and busbars, etc. Thickest material I've done with it is 1/8"
copper bussbar.
I've been tempted by a 36" sheet metal brake at our local equivalent of
Harbour Freight (Princess Auto) that sounds to have identical specs as
the unit you tried. Based on your experience I think I'll keep my eye
out for something else ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with an AC
inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car but they
are more than adequate.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jay Caplan
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:32 AM
To: mike phillips; [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
Mike,
I have been driving a Lectric Leopard converted Renault LeCar
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/727 daily since the first of the year. As it
is real warm here in Nashville, had been thinking of how to handle air
conditioning for months now.
There are probably ways to drive a car's AC compressor with a small DC
motor, but this car never had AC, so am experimenting (with success) using
ice. Since my trips are local and never exceed four hours, I designed
cooling with that in mind.
There is a chest freezer in the garage located next to the passenger door of
the car. It holds 18 HDPE jugs, each containing 10 lb of ice.
http://tinyurl.com/mpfc7 I load 9 of these into the ice box in the car
(there is a small air gap between each jug), and then leave the garage with
the 12VDC 14 inch radiator fan that is bolted to the side of the box blowing
air towards the driver's seat. The fan has a 10 amp PWM speed control to
adjust the air delivery. The 90 lb of ice cools the car well for up to 4
hours. I have used it four times so far this summer, and expect to use it
daily in July and August and into September. It reduces the interior temp by
15 degrees and removes excess humidity. It stays very comfortable.
The ice box has a mesh side to let air blow through and solid bottom to
collect condensation with a drain. http://tinyurl.com/pfr68 #EF6421
On return to the garage, the 9 melted jugs are returned to the freezer, they
freeze overnight. The load or unload of jugs takes just 2 minutes.
One advantage of ice is that you can leave the fan blowing while in a store
and keep the car cool for groceries or leaving pets inside.
Then I will remove the ice box from the car in the fall and reinstall the
little heater that was there for winter use.
I got the idea from some very small units http://tinyurl.com/jdmed that use
crushed ice and blow air over it or use cold water for a transfer medium
http://www.willcool.com/index.html to a fan blowing over a wick. I chose the
air transfer to the jugs and a big radiator fan because I knew it needed at
least 80 lb ice to deliver the cooling required and good air flow to
transfer the heat, and didn't want to handle all that melted water and ice
cubes, too difficult and expensive. The narrow jugs work fine and contain
the water, reused easily. I have 18 jugs instead of 9 so that if I use the
car in the daytime, recharge it and then again at night, I will have fresh
ice each time.
As a $3000 alternative, there are numerous 12VDC, 24VDC, and 48VDC self
contained roof units with compressor and evaporator and fans.
http://tinyurl.com/ekusl
http://www.wagners12voltair.com/product.htm
http://www.dcbreeze.com/
http://www.varsityinteractive.com/polar/trucks.php
http://www.nitesystem.com/index.cfm/about/
http://www.thermocompressor.biz/
Glad to supply more details and photos if anyone is interested.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:30 AM
Subject: air conditioning for ev's
> Does anyone know if it's possible and what it takes to bring Air
Conditioning
> to a EV?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Phillips
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> Depends on how marginal the motor is. A 1/2HP continuous rated motor is
> a bit low, I would shoot for a least a full HP continuous. You will
> probably need bursts up to 3 HP, a 1HP motor will be able to take the
> high load better.
>
I kinda figured a 300 watt motor would be too low, but a bird in hand...
Here goes. If the ICE AC generally works at idle, that means the compressor
should work around
1000 rpm minimum. Assume the pulleys are the same diameter on the crankshaft
and the AC clutch.
I have a 300 watt motor, it has a built in controller and will run up to 4000
rpm. Can I get some
mechanical advantage by using a small pulley on the motor and a larger pulley
on the compressor to
give the motor some mechanical advantage? For example, if the load requires 1hp
and the motor
delivers 1/2hp, can I configure a 2:1 pulley ratio to match supply and load?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
well we know dc motors have the same torque over the rpm range, but the
effeciency changes, so you'd want to run the motor at its highest
efficiency rpm, and gear it down to run the ac compressor.
I usually always run AC on max, except long trips where it can actually
get too cold, but don't think EV's are going to be used for those type
of trips.
Another consideration is to use the "aux" electric motor to also spin
the power steering pump and perhaps a vaccum pump, so that might play a
role in how the speed is configured. If pulleys are used on the others
too one could always adjust those pulleys independently.
Jack
Dave Cover wrote:
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Depends on how marginal the motor is. A 1/2HP continuous rated motor is
a bit low, I would shoot for a least a full HP continuous. You will
probably need bursts up to 3 HP, a 1HP motor will be able to take the
high load better.
I kinda figured a 300 watt motor would be too low, but a bird in hand...
Here goes. If the ICE AC generally works at idle, that means the compressor
should work around
1000 rpm minimum. Assume the pulleys are the same diameter on the crankshaft and the AC clutch.
I have a 300 watt motor, it has a built in controller and will run up to 4000
rpm. Can I get some
mechanical advantage by using a small pulley on the motor and a larger pulley
on the compressor to
give the motor some mechanical advantage? For example, if the load requires 1hp
and the motor
delivers 1/2hp, can I configure a 2:1 pulley ratio to match supply and load?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
Here goes. If the ICE AC generally works at idle, that means the compressor
should work around
1000 rpm minimum. Assume the pulleys are the same diameter on the crankshaft and the AC clutch.
I think someone here said best results can be obtained by running the
compressor at about 1850RPM. Your motor (probably) produces max HP at
its full speed, so pulleys will be a requirement. Pulleys help you get
max power/efficiency out of both devices, but they can't make up for a
too small motor.
In your case if you really want to use this motor go ahead and try...
Its either going to work, die young, stall, or underperform.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jody Dewey wrote:
> Roger - where did you get your copper bus bar? I would like
> to use some of that for my EV
I got mine at a local metal supplier (Rustan Metals, in Vancouver, BC);
knowing that probably won't help you any though ;^>
I suspect they aren't the cheapest place to buy, but Metal Supermarkets
<http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/> might have a location convenient to
you, and they also supply copper bus bar in various widths and
thicknesses. You can buy longer lengths (up to 12ft) and cut the bars
yourself, or you can have them cut the bars to length for you; just
proceed through their online quote system and one of the last steps is
to specify the quantity and length of bars needed. If there are
multiple lengths, just specify the different lengths as separate line
items on your order with appropriate quantities for each.
Other sources include:
Alaskan Copper & Brass (<http://www.alaskancopper.com/>), which supplies
round or square edge rectangular bus bar in 12ft lengths. Located in
Pacific Northwest.
Storm Copper (<http://www.stormcopper.com/>); specialist in manufacture
of finished bus bars, but also stock and supply raw bus bar. Very
useful website for determining ampacity of various size bus bars and
configurations.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ordered my tickets for WKTEC -
(taking my mother to the movies for a reversal :-)
Do you think there will be any kind of interactions
after the show? (It seems to be showing in only
2 theaters in the NY area on this date)
Do I need to wear my "EV Owner" Tee-shirt?
(I would need to make it :-)
(Is that deceptive advertising? :-)
Thanks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it takes
in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and exhausts
it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure will
drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and the
unit stops working.
Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's something
like 10k BTU.
Danny
Jody Dewey wrote:
Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with an AC
inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car but they
are more than adequate.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
How thick is your motor plate and what kind of aluminum did you make it
from?
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:57 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: RE: 300ZX Hybrid
I made my adapters.
grimmy details follow:
I found an old 4140 motor shaft(big F'n Motor!!, like 5" or 6" shaft)
an stuck it in the lathe and turned a replica of the Small block chevy
crank. I found button flywheels are dime a dozen for SBC, all the racing
clutches like tilton and quarter master are standard and also highly
avail as they have gone to smaller and smaller units. (I recommend a
7-1/4 dualplate tilton, the triple plate 5-1/2 required modifieing the
tranny snout.) Michele was a great help here:
http://www.mrracingequipment.com/
Then I turned it around in the lathe and put in the taper.
Then I made the shaft adapter cutting the taper (while the angle was
still still on the compound) , bored the hole for the motor shaft. This
was made on the end of a shank that I havent cut off yet. stuck it in
the mill and drilled and tapped the holes. Stuck it back in the lathe
and faced it off. Then stuck it in the arbor press and pushed the
broach through. The last step was to use a cutoff wheel and split the
taperlock.
The tranny pattern was interesting to determine.
Does this look like the tranny pattern?
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/Z31_non-turbo-pattern.jpg
I had a plate of aluminum water jet cut at a local cabinet shop for the
tranny plate and motor mount. I decided on the bell design and put a 12"
hole in that plate. Then I indicated the hole, took a clean cut to size
and then walked off bolt and dowel pattern (ok, I had to set it up
twice, [EMAIL PROTECTED]@# bridgeport has very limited y travel.)
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/Z31MidMotorBracketWJTop.jpg
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/Z31MidMotorBracketWJBottom.jpg
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/300zxdrivetrain.jpg
If you need more details, I have more prints on another hard drive.
The overall idea was to make a kit that always uses the same motor
adapter, one of a few bells that differ only in one dimension, the depth
and then a standard thickness plate that is water jet to size and cnc'd
to each application when ordered. If enough kits could be designed the
costs can be reasonable. I just have to do a bunch of conversions like
steve clunn and others.
"share and enjoy"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The box can hold alot of batterys as long as they are not over 7"
tall. The batt box goes under tha cab and that's the height limit.
Floodies are taller generally.
The software is set up for 25, 26, 27 12v batts. That's 300, 312, and
324 volts. The hardware won't run on 144v. Minimum is really 260v as
that is where the truck shuts down.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike; Check out item # 140001465537 on E bay this may give you some
> idea's for a home brew. Someone once told me that it took a 1 HP motor
>
> BTW ? for you. If I was to buy a US Electricar S10, minus the controler,
> is the box' big enought to hold 144V worth of batterys ( 6 Volt) ??
>
> Ol_Joe in Cincy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mike phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:30 AM
> Subject: air conditioning for ev's
>
>
> > Does anyone know if it's possible and what it takes to bring Air
> Conditioning
> > to a EV?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike Phillips
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
given a short trip EV, perhaps a tank of compressed air can replace the
air compressor. A 2000psi divers tank can hold a lot of air.
Refill the tank when you get home as part of the recharge.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes,
I have bought and received 6 of their UEV-18 XP 19.2V, 65 A-hr. batteries for
my Prius plug-in hybrid conversion. A very nice package with the battery
management built-in to each battery, communicating by CAN bus via plug-in
connectors to the U-BMS module. This U-BMS has a lot of features and can switch
off the charging or main contactor, to protect from over charge or
over-discharge. Valence batteries cost more up front than other battery types,
but considering the high cycles life and good current output capability, with
safety, and BMS included, looks like a good value long term.
Best Regards,
Doug
>
> From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/06/28 Wed AM 08:21:48 EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Valence Technology Batteries
>
> Hi Folk's
>
> Has anyone heard of Valence Technology Batteries, are they worth fooling
> with? I'm not a chemist but the claims look good on paper :-)
> www.Valence.com
>
> Best Regards,
> Mark
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any GTech users out there? The factory claims no EV experience. The meter is
designed to work off of alternator noise, so they surmised that a big EV motor
would put out similar noise, but since that is isolated from the 12V system, I
wonder... The meter is apparently not compatible with a standard magnetic
tach sensor.
No EV experience....?! Would one of you noteworthies would like some help
hustling a new sponsor?
-Jay Donnaway
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
All on demand. Always Free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did a quick calculation the other day.
I assumed there are a few thousand EV's. At present, 815 are listed on
EValbum if numerically listed. So taking Steve's assumption that there are
5-10 more than we think, there are 8,150. round to 10,000 for good measure.
The website claims there are 234 million registered vehicles on the road.
http://www.bts.gov/publications/state_transportation_profiles/state_transportation_statistics_2005/pdf/entire.pdf
That means that if you drive an electric vehicle, you have a
1 in 23,400 chance of seeing another electric car. I haven't kept count,
but only once on my commute to work in 2 years did I see my high school
physics teacher driving the electric car I helped build in the opposite
direction to school.
same as .0042 percent chance of seeing one.
It's Interesting to feel outside of the crowd, not in a prideful way, just
to know that it's actually possible to Do better than the status quo with
minimal to some effort.
Ben Fratto
www.evalbum.com/731
----- Message from "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 27 Jun
2006 17:25:40 -0500 -----
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: How many EVs are there?
Does anyone have an idea just how many four wheel EV cars and trucks (not
NEVs nor other low speeds) are in current use in the USA? By current, I
mean
driven at least once a week, all or most all of the year.
I've only had my first EV on the road for 6 months, but can't imagine ever
buying another gasoline car.
Jay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Dennis,
You mentioned the CE will be running at Bakersfield in
the Race of Champions... I went to the tracks web page
and didn't see that race mentioned in the schedule.
I'd like to stop by, say hi and check out the CE.
Bakersfield is'nt too far away... When will you be
racing there?
Thanks,
TiM
'61 Electric Rampside
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have bought and received 6 of their UEV-18 XP 19.2V, 65 A-hr.
batteries for my Prius plug-in hybrid conversion. A very nice package
with the battery management built-in to each battery, communicating by
CAN bus via plug-in connectors to the U-BMS module. This U-BMS has a
lot of features and can switch off the charging or main contactor, to
protect from over charge or over-discharge. Valence batteries cost
more up front than other battery types, but considering the high
cycles life and good current output capability, with safety, and BMS
included, looks like a good value long term.
>
Even using fully charged values, that's only 132V peak, so does this
mean you are planning on boosting the lithium pack's voltage to equal
that of the Prius? You must be doing this for the technical challenge,
since buying a working conversion off the Tradin' Post is often less
than your pack alone costs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't yet understand how it is current-wise or torque-wise possible to
direct-drive any rear-wheel-drive vehicle via a 1:1 motor-driveshaft
coupling (and using something as small as a 7/8" output shaft??), but given
that there at least a few examples of this, it's obviously workable. So
what about front-wheel drive conversions? A double-shaft,
transverse-mounted motor would be a natural... for those of us who don't
wish to make turns. Is there some standard method of providing some slip in
this configuration so that steering is possible?
Back to direct-drive conversions: I probably haven't been reading the list
for long enough or I'd know, but I would tend to assume that any
direct-drive installation would be shorter-lived and much more
power-consumptive than one that utilizes some form of transmission, since a
transmission would allow the driver to keep the motor operating at closer to
it's peak efficiency RPM, as opposed to starting from zero RPM with a huge
current surge that would quickly take a toll on brushes and copper. What's
the thinking on this?
Dave S
Honolulu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I ordered 12 U24-12XP batteries and a U-BMS-XP-HV
> battery management unit. I just received the BMS, and
> my batteries ship this week from China. They are
> pricey, but on paper they meet my specific needs --
> specific energy, specific power (600A peak for quick
> acceleration vs. 300A posted), and no thermal runaway
> -- and shouldn't cost me more than a few dollars per
> day over gasoline over the long term. I will report
> back with my results once I'm on the road. See
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733 for details.
>
> Chris Jones
> carefully converting my '66 Mustang
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
You "first adopters" are awefully brave! Hope your pack investment
proves to be money well spent!!
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--- Begin Message ---
> Just for reference, here are their prices as of 6/19/2006:
>
> U1-12RTL: $600 per unit
> U1-12RT, U1-12XP: $860 per unit
> U24-12RT, U24-12XP: $2030 per unit
> U27-12RT, U27-12XP: $2550 per unit
> UEV-18XP: $1935 per unit
>
> Its unbelievable, isn't it?
>
Still, it *is* less than buying a bunch of Dewalt 36V packs to
series/parallel for the equivalent ($1.50/wh vs $2.20/wh).
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--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
I'm planning to covert a '98 Ranger.
What size wheels did you go with? Weight? Did the Goodyear Invicta GLs
work well for you?
Thanks.
Steven Potter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of evranger
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:00 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: FS: 1993 192V Ranger Conversion
>
> Hello All,
>
> After 7 years of faithful service I have reluctantly decided to sell
my
> 1993
> 192V Ranger conversion.
--
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--- Begin Message ---
> I don't yet understand how it is current-wise or torque-wise possible to
> direct-drive any rear-wheel-drive vehicle via a 1:1 motor-driveshaft
> coupling (and using something as small as a 7/8" output shaft??),
but given
> that there at least a few examples of this, it's obviously workable.
1:1? The direct drives in the EV Album all use a differential, some
with a pretty high ratio.
> Back to direct-drive conversions: I probably haven't been reading
the list
> for long enough or I'd know, but I would tend to assume that any
> direct-drive installation would be shorter-lived and much more
> power-consumptive than one that utilizes some form of transmission,
since a
> transmission would allow the driver to keep the motor operating at
closer to
> it's peak efficiency RPM, as opposed to starting from zero RPM with
a huge
> current surge that would quickly take a toll on brushes and copper.
What's
> the thinking on this?
Spend some time perusing EVAlbum.com, and go to metricmind.com and
check out Victor's AC transaxles, which is one way to adapt a fwd to
single speed tranny.
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I recently had Jim Husted do a com for me and an experimental brush
rigging set up. I have only had the motor back in "Gone Postal" for a very
short time. It hasn't even been to the track yet but today I had to take the
motor back out. The only person I can think of to blame for my troubles is
Jim Husted. Everything was fine until he worked on my motor.
We are running a Centerforce clutch and pressure plate with a Corrado G60
flywheel. We have never had any trouble with it whatsoever. We have raced
it, we have run front drive only and rear drive only. We have even submitted
it to the Madman's foot.and still no problems. Now when I nail it up to 1800
amps on the front motor the clutch whirs right up without much acceleration.
We pulled the motor and sure enough, the smell was not the brushes but the
clutch material burning. We checked and the clutch linkage is fine. Yep,
it's all Jim's fault for giving me too much torque :-) We have found a
solution. Now to get the big bucks for a full on racing pressure plate and a
three puck disc from Clutch Net, www.clutchnet.com
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
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Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
how much are those batteries? Looks pretty good, and btw, they are a
public company on Nasdaq, looks like a good stock to buy.. :)
Who else sells Lithium batteries in large capacity format?
I'm tempted to buy some surplus LI cell phone batteries...
Death to All Spammers wrote:
I ordered 12 U24-12XP batteries and a U-BMS-XP-HV
battery management unit. I just received the BMS, and
my batteries ship this week from China. They are
pricey, but on paper they meet my specific needs --
specific energy, specific power (600A peak for quick
acceleration vs. 300A posted), and no thermal runaway
-- and shouldn't cost me more than a few dollars per
day over gasoline over the long term. I will report
back with my results once I'm on the road. See
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733 for details.
Chris Jones
carefully converting my '66 Mustang
Santa Rosa, CA
You "first adopters" are awefully brave! Hope your pack investment
proves to be money well spent!!
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--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of working with thick metal,
how do you cut it? I have this great
scrap that's perfect except for some
tabs that need to be cut off.
The stuff is 1/4" x 2.5"
Clearly, HF reciprocating saw and HF blades
is not the way to go. Do I need a
bigger saw or a better blade?
or BOTH?
(or a case of HF blades :-)
(I got a better blade, but it is captive
in my ICE car which needs an $800 gasket.
I told my wife, the EV won't need that :=)
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--- Begin Message ---
Thunder Sky (http://www.thunder-sky.com/en/) seems to cell a large variety
of LiIon packs.
Does anyone have some rough $/WH numbers for their packs? Is anyone
actually using them? With which BMS?
Steve
On Wed, June 28, 2006 2:42 pm, Jack Murray wrote:
> how much are those batteries? Looks pretty good, and btw, they are a
> public company on Nasdaq, looks like a good stock to buy.. :) Who else
> sells Lithium batteries in large capacity format?
>
> I'm tempted to buy some surplus LI cell phone batteries...
>
>
> Death to All Spammers wrote:
>
>>> I ordered 12 U24-12XP batteries and a U-BMS-XP-HV
>>> battery management unit. I just received the BMS, and my batteries
>>> ship this week from China. They are pricey, but on paper they meet my
>>> specific needs -- specific energy, specific power (600A peak for quick
>>> acceleration vs. 300A posted), and no thermal runaway -- and
>>> shouldn't cost me more than a few dollars per day over gasoline over
>>> the long term. I will report back with my results once I'm on the
>>> road. See http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733 for details.
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Jones
>>> carefully converting my '66 Mustang Santa Rosa, CA
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> You "first adopters" are awefully brave! Hope your pack investment
>> proves to be money well spent!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I have 2 other electric vehicles (with range extender generators), so, I am not
doing this just to get an EV. The purpose is to develop the key component for
relatively easy, low-invasive, conversions of Prius hybrids to PHEV. However,
I am likely to drive mine a lot, because the result will be smoother, quieter,
more spacious, larger, and more practical than my current EVs.
The benefits of boosting from a lower voltage battery pack, using a
microcontroller operated boost converter, are:
1) The voltage can be set to what is desired and required for best results, and
varied if need be under different conditions, related for example, to the Priud
NiMH battery SOC, load, etc. (voltage setting commanded over an RS-422 serial
communication bus), independently of the state of charge of the added battery
pack. (It won't, for example, start off too high with the battery pack freshly
charged and then drop too low as the battery pack gets discharged.)
2) Fewer, larger batteries can be used, for less interconnect cabling, better
reliability and increased safety.
3) Current drain and output to the Prius can also be set and limited/controlled.
3) other parameters such as temperature are available to be read by a
control/display unit.
Other batteries, such as AGM lead acid can be used with this PHEV system, but
the Valence batteries will provide about the best combination of range for a
reasonable weight and space used, safety, sufficient power (current), etc.
Best Regards,
Doug
>
> From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/06/28 Wed PM 05:06:57 EST
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Valence Technology Batteries
>
> > I have bought and received 6 of their UEV-18 XP 19.2V, 65 A-hr.
> batteries for my Prius plug-in hybrid conversion. A very nice package
> with the battery management built-in to each battery, communicating by
> CAN bus via plug-in connectors to the U-BMS module. This U-BMS has a
> lot of features and can switch off the charging or main contactor, to
> protect from over charge or over-discharge. Valence batteries cost
> more up front than other battery types, but considering the high
> cycles life and good current output capability, with safety, and BMS
> included, looks like a good value long term.
> >
>
> Even using fully charged values, that's only 132V peak, so does this
> mean you are planning on boosting the lithium pack's voltage to equal
> that of the Prius? You must be doing this for the technical challenge,
> since buying a working conversion off the Tradin' Post is often less
> than your pack alone costs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
These came up a couple weeks ago:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006061408521419&item=6-936&catname=electric
> > From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Used and Surplus Motors
> >
> > Where is a good source to find used and surplus motors?
> > I've not found much luck finding any 10+ hp DC motors.
> > Jack
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Does anybody have a copy of a Curtis 1221R manual (differs from the 1221B/C)
- Curtis doesn't have one anymore?
Here the whole story:
I've just finally bought my first on-road EV
(I've owned two elec-traks for a couple of years).
Its a Tavria (similar to Skoda), a sowjet car body that was converted to
electric in Germany in 1996.
It features a series wound (about 9") DC motor (12kw cont.) with a Curtis
1221R controller and 900 pounds of lead. (The whole car weighs about
2500lbs). Plus a 25A charger and a Diesel cabin heater. I managed to get
some used gel batteries, fixed a few minor issues with the dc-dc converters
and the aux battery and took it for a spin. It works and I got a nice EV
grin.
Unfortunately, I found that regenerative breaking doesn't work and the
standard breaks are really minimalistic (no break booster). I see that I
have a switch or pot with 3 wires mounted to the break peddle and also see
that there is a large contactor what looks to be a 2PDT mounted right with
the controller. As I cannot reverse the motor I assume this is to reverse
the field current for regen. It doesn't work though. Hence I tried to find a
manual for the Curtis 1221R. After some looking around all I saw was an old
mail on this list from 1992 about somebody else also looking for such a
manual/schematic. I called curtis but they claim they don't have anything
anymore about this old controller.
Does anybody happen to have some documentation. Preferably in electronic
form as I am now located in Europe.
Thanks a bunch
Markus
1996 Tavria 84V road-EV
1973 Two GE Elec-Trak E20
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--- Begin Message ---
I have also been thinking about how I am gonna do AC, I have teh
compressor but I put batteries where the condensor was :-(
I plan to try 1 liter coke bottles one set in the freezer at work and
one set int the freazer at home and an icechest setting in the passenger
seat until I can find a 2004+ prius AC compressor. It runs near pack
voltage(I'll want a controller) and is very efficient. I will then
relocate the condensor to the area where the fuel tank was and put an
electric fan and a really good grill on it. These must be coke bottles
not pepsi because the coke bottles have the shape to allow air passage. :-)
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