EV Digest 5618
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Golfcart diff on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) 9" series-wound Kostov on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Top Gear clip of Hy-Wire
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: My Cabby lives! (Zilla voltage/current limit question)
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: My Cabby lives! (Zilla voltage/current limit question)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 9" series-wound Kostov on eBay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: frontal area
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: 9" series-wound Kostov on eBay
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: frontal area
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Wikipedia EV conversion
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Air conditioning gains
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) TdS Report #50: Interview: Drew Gillett
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) TdS Report #51: Photos - Drew and Barbara Gillett
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Another RAV4 EV on Ebay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Top Gear clip of Hy-Wire
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Dump Charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: 9" series-wound Kostov on eBay
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Top Gear clip of Hy-Wire
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Don't know how you'd manage a suspension with this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140004242304
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140004246924
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I haven't been running my voltage that low on a typical basis. I normally have
the battery lower limit to 170V. And I'm only
pulling these runs on a topped off pack. But so far tI don't see anything amiss
with the batteries. I'm running the PowerCheq
balancers and it seems they balance nicely during/after discharge as well.
After a hard pull like this, while the truck is
sitting I can see several of the Reg LED's blinking. Its interesting to watch
the LED's change which Reg they hop to as the pack
balances itself back out. Within a half hour they are all back to within 0.25
V.
I was thinking about running some simulations with several settings lower than
what I'm set up for to give some idea what it would
be like with say 156V and 1000A, 144V and 600A, 120V and 400A...etc. Just for
kicks I set the motor voltage limit and battery
current limit down to several lower settings, mainly to limit to keep from
slipping my clutch, but also to see what it would have
been like had I gone to say 144V like originally planned, or a smaller
controller if I wanted to save money. Are there any
specific limit points anyone would want to see? One would have to keep in mind
these comparisons would be to a 4000 lb vehicle.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Steve Condie
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 4:55 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data
>
>
> Mike - hey, thanks for posting the charts. It is **extremely** helpful to
> see how the battery and motor voltage and
> current works in a "real world" vehicle on acceleration. I have one
> question: it looks like your batteries sag down
> to 9 volts (or lower) on full acceleration. Have you had any problems with
> taking them down that low?
>
>
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What I always wanted to know:
My T-125s have a 20hr rate of 240AH. Now: I know that, due to Peukert's
law I am going to get just about 1/2 of that for driving.
In comparing alternative battery chemistries: Do those batteries suffer
some kind of Peukert's effect too? Or - to rephrase the question: How many
LiIon or Lipo Ah's would I have to get in order to have at least as much
avaiable as my T-125s provide?
I understand that LiPos or LiIons would save much weight, but if I would
shell out significant money, it should make an impact on range too.
Thanks for your answers.
Michaela
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The article at this page is pretty blah, but there is a video clip of
the GM Hy-Wire being test driven, explained, and disassembled.
This is what I would like to do with my conversion.
-Mike
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The 225A limit (with controller set to 350A) seems to have gone away...
I can pull 350A until the motor RPM climbs a bit, then it tapers down to
200A or so. I can maintain 200A up to the 5500RPM motor limit. My first
test was near dusk, and my ammeter isn't illuminated yet. Oops!
Since you are running only 114 volts, the amps will be a bit high and
the performance will be a bit sluggish on the top end.
I was tempted to use 8V/12V floodies or even AGMs for higher pack voltage.
Repeat after me: This is a grocery getter, this is a grocery getter, this
is a grocery getter. The local speed limit is 30MPH, 30MPH, 30MPH!
Also, if you have set the battery low voltage limit to, say,
99 volts, this will limit the current you can draw from them.
The 99V is a "warning" that flashes the battery light. The Zilla low
voltage limit is set somewhat lower. As is, the 99V warning only flashes
periodically during hard acceleration.
100A at 114V is 11400 watts. If we did this for an hour,
we would use 11.4 kwh and travel 40 miles 11,400 wh/40 = 285 Wh/mile.
Seems reasonable, seems good actually.
Duh! I forgot that I can multiply and divide... Thanks! So far it seems I
use about 100A whether driving 30 or 45! I need to find some level highway
to get better numbers. I've been (impatiently) waiting for the other EVer
in town to return from Italy so I can compare numbers with him (78
Scirroco, 108V, 9" ADC, Curtis 1221C).
Now if I can clean the batteries well enough to get rid of the newly
developed pack-to-chassis connection. It's just enough to light an LED at
the 10V mark. Unfortunately I may have to redesign a battery hold down for
long term improvement :(
Thanks for all the help/encouragement. The EVDL has some very useful info
flowing through it (from time to time :) )
Adrian
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Anyone have any reports on how things went at PIR on the 30th?
Regards,
Chris Brune
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On 4 Jul 2006 at 10:41, Adrian DeLeon wrote:
> So far it seems I use
> about 100A whether driving 30 or 45!
That does seem a bit high, especially for 30 mph. It's been a long time
since I've had it, but IIRC, my 96v Honda Civic with a Prestolite motor used
around 50 amps (5kw) when cruising at ~35 mph.
I'm assuming you're running a series motor. Are you keeping RPM as high as
possible, within the motor's RPM limits - that is, are you always using as
>low< a gear as you can? A series motor EV is the exact opposite of a gas
car - you shift >down< for economy and >up< for acceleration.
Also check for brake drag, tire inflation, tight bearings, and excessive toe
in the front end. You should be able to roll the car on a flat surface,
just by leaning against it.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 4 Jul 2006 at 9:30, Michaela Merz wrote:
> In comparing alternative battery chemistries: Do those batteries suffer
> some kind of Peukert's effect too?
Peukert's equation describes the behavior of lead batteries and doesn't
apply to other chemistries. I'm not an electrochemist, but I think the
difference is that in most other chemistries the electrolyte serves only as
an ion carrier and doesn't take part in the reaction, as it does in lead
batteries.
The only alternative I'm directly familiar with are flooded nicads. They
have significantly less diminution of capacity at higher currents. From
0.1C to 2C (10a to 200a in this example), the apparent capacity loss is less
than 15% (110ah vs 95ah).
I suspect much of that diminution is caused by internal resistance and
heating. The reason I say this is that the initial and terminal voltages
are both somewhat reduced by the load. The characteristic voltage "fall off
the cliff" at the end of discharge definitely happens at a lower voltage.
I know nothing about the specifics of other chemistries (though I'd think
that NiMH would be similar). Others here who have experience with NiMH and
Lithium batteries may be able to provide more information.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Class F insulation? Isn't that a bit low in the heat department? I
remember the headaches that EVers had 20 years ago, using the old Baldor
motors with (IIRC) class E insulation.
Also, I wonder what "n 5000 rmp" means. Something about a ramp rate???
Makes no sense to me.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Cliff wrote:
> The Valence site lists the continuous discharge as
150 amps with a 30 second peak of 300 amps for the
U24-12XP batteries.
http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/U-Charge%20XP%20DS%20Jan06.pdf
Did you get different information?
Marc Kohler said their new copper interconnects would
do 600A, but changing the spec was too much work. My
guess is that either there are significant known
tradeoffs to the other specs, or there is too much
testing required, or too many unknowns, and I think
they are focusing their energy on other solutions for
higher power applications. I remember something they
announced last year that was 15C continuous/25A peak
for a similar price and capacity and 50% less cycle
life, but they weren't out in large formats at the
time I inquired.
> Part of the reason we went with Kokam was the
superior max discharge: 500 amp continuous, 800 amps
peak. The 300 amps / 600 amps would not be bad for
normal road use but 150 amps / 300 amps was pretty
limiting.
My needs are safe and simple 4 seat payload (read low
weight gain) and mostly surface street driving. I can
avoid freeways, so if these did end up being only 300A
batteries, I'd still do it, relegating to only being a
"city car" that was marginal getting on the freeway.
Due to the 6 milliohm internal resistance, I think
these things will be marginal getting on the freeway
below 50% SOC anyhow.
> I'm not sure what you mean by thermal stability.
Could you post some more information?
According to Valence, common lithium ion polymer
batteries have cobalt oxide that freely gives up their
oxygen, so in the event of thermal runaway they can
catch on fire and not be extinguishable. BMSs can
help avoid this condition, but a wreck or a
manufacturing defect could lead to this condition with
no way of stopping it. Valence claims that their
chemistry is inherently stable. I believe Electrovaya
also claims similar inherent safety, but neither their
batteries nor cars were for sale the last time I
checked.
> What figures do they give on cycle life? I see on
the spec sheet that at 45 degrees C, discharge rate of
C/2 which is 50 amps, that they seem to hit about 80%
of capacity at 600 cycles. The graph does not say if
these are 100% discharges or 80% discharges.
2000 cycles to 80% capacity at 80% DOD, >10000 at <50%
DOD, all at 25C. But I expect ~4% capacity loss to
due age alone at 25C, which on average we are below
here in Santa Rosa, CA. Based on our driving habits
my guess is mine will die of age, not cycles. The
Kokams at 1400 cycles at 100% DOD to 80% capacity at
25C sounds great -- much better than the 500 cycles I
got from somewhere when I was shopping last year.
> The part I like most about the Valence is that they
include a BMS system. Can you tell us more about the
BMS? How does it work? What does it display?
Each battery module has cell voltage, temperature and
current sensors, and automatic shunting circuitry
around each of the 4 cells during charging. They have
LED indicators that indicate alarm state. They have
two RS485 connectors that daisy chains them up to a
little BMS box that can drive inter-module charge
balancing, send messages to a Vehicle Management Unit
via CANBus, and drive gages, dash lights and
contactors. My plan for now is to have it drive my
Brusa charger over CANBus, a relay in series with the
main contactor to interrupt the Zilla, my stock fuel
gage with an offset and gain circuit, and early
warning and error dash lights.
David wrote:
>If it is not being to personal what did the 12
U24-12XP batteries and a U-BMS-XP-HV battery
management unit cost.
$19K including shipping, but per my earlier post,
prices given to someone else were higher.
Chris
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Mr Peukert studied lead acid battery because it was available at that time
but all batteries have such peukert effect.
It's a voltage sag when pumping lots of current which make that battery
touch his low voltage(and temp) limit faster than his nominal capacity
should produce.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
> On 4 Jul 2006 at 9:30, Michaela Merz wrote:
>
> > In comparing alternative battery chemistries: Do those batteries suffer
> > some kind of Peukert's effect too?
>
> Peukert's equation describes the behavior of lead batteries and doesn't
> apply to other chemistries. I'm not an electrochemist, but I think the
> difference is that in most other chemistries the electrolyte serves only
as
> an ion carrier and doesn't take part in the reaction, as it does in lead
> batteries.
>
> The only alternative I'm directly familiar with are flooded nicads. They
> have significantly less diminution of capacity at higher currents. From
> 0.1C to 2C (10a to 200a in this example), the apparent capacity loss is
less
> than 15% (110ah vs 95ah).
>
> I suspect much of that diminution is caused by internal resistance and
> heating. The reason I say this is that the initial and terminal voltages
> are both somewhat reduced by the load. The characteristic voltage "fall
off
> the cliff" at the end of discharge definitely happens at a lower voltage.
>
> I know nothing about the specifics of other chemistries (though I'd think
> that NiMH would be similar). Others here who have experience with NiMH
and
> Lithium batteries may be able to provide more information.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
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>
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Hey Neon and all
Just catching up on really old mail
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote way back in April:
> On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:12:57 -0700 (PDT), David Dymaxion
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >You do have to be careful. Some manufacturers want to make the Cd
> >sound as good as possible, so they'll just use the height*width of
> >the care for the area. I think one of the best sources for aero info
> >is <http://www.epa.gov/otaq/tcldata.htm>.
>
> Here's a very accurate method of measuring the frontal area of your
> car. It is a variation of the old scientist's trick called graphical
> integration, updated for the digital world.
> First, get 4 yard sticks or other known length objects and make a
> square. Position this square upright in front of the car.
How `bout wrapping the vehicle at it's fattest point with a piece of
line. Measure the length of the line, treat it as the circumference of
a circle and solve for area of circle with Phi?
Just 2cents. Metric here in Cda now, so getting hard to find yard
sticks <smile>
Lock
Toronto
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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David Roden wrote:
> Also, I wonder what "n 5000 rmp" means.
Just a bit of dyslexia, I suspect. "5000 rpm" seems the likely intent.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Lock, this string thing won't quite work out. A circle with radius = 3.1831
has a circumference 20 and area 31.83. A square with
sides = 5 also has perimeter 20 but area is only 25. A rectangle is even less
efficient at containing space. If one side is 3
and the other is 7 it has the same perimeter of 20 as the square and circle
except the area is now only 21. Your string would
have to keep the shape of the car profile, which is the same thing as doing the
photo trick mentioned earlier. Sorry ;-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Lock Hughes wrote
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:49 AM
> How `bout wrapping the vehicle at it's fattest point with a piece of
> line. Measure the length of the line, treat it as the circumference of
> a circle and solve for area of circle with Phi?
>
> Just 2cents. Metric here in Cda now, so getting hard to find yard
> sticks <smile>
>
> Lock
> Toronto
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Had some extra time today so I spent some time at
wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion
It seems that almost all of the categories have very
little information and links. I just thought the list
could contribute our collective knowlege to make this
a better resourse for those looking into EV's.
Rod
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Things went pretty well. The first run of the night was in the 12.5 range
and the second in the 12.3. Starting out with these two runs, we were all
sure that it was going to be a record breaking night, but it was not to be.
The third run was in the 12.6 range and a couple more 12.3's. John was
worried there might be something breaking up in the rear end again, and the
batteries were getting to hot to touch, so with the times seeming to have
flattened out, John called it a night. I know he went home dissapointed,
but I would imagine after a couple of days reflection, he's probably pretty
happy to have run so fast, so consistantly. Also, these times are the
fastest he personally has ever run down the track in WZ. Tim Brehm made the
record setting runs.
Also, we did mostly get the charging worked out, and after a couple of hours
were able to put away the generator. Now that it has been done once, I
don't anticipate any more gas powered electric cars at PIR, so that will be
very nice.
BTW - I took a look at your DC to DC. It looks great and has a prominent
place over the front driver side fender !!! At least I think that was your
DC to DC. It was a new part I did not recognize.
Damon
From: "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:54:09 -0700
Anyone have any reports on how things went at PIR on the 30th?
Regards,
Chris Brune
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brute force yes the blower would make it pointless. But if you put some
brains on the blower so it only turns on when inside air temp > outside you
can save some work on the AC unit. The insulation will only change the rate
that the car heats up or cools off. The best insulated car will still heat
up if you let it sit and bake long enough in the sun.
Later,
Wire
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Air conditioning gains
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:12:00 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Danny Miller wrote:
>Possible ways to reduce the need to extremely high cooling capacity:
>1. Insulate roof, walls, maybe even floor
>2. Paint it white
>3. Tint the windows other than the windshield
>4. Automatic or otherwise very convenient shades for all the windows.
Or make the windows double pane, like houses and buildings. Single
pane windows let tremendous amounts of heat through.
>5. An exhaust fan to remove the high heat it absorbs being in the sun.
If you're going to use a blower to force inside air temperature to match
outside temperature, then insulation becomes pointless.
--
Lee Hart
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TdS Report #50: Interview: Drew Gillett
Drew, who hails from Bedford, New Hampshire, has been volunteering at the Tour
de Sol since forever. His steady-state job is to post the routes that the
competition follows from place to place, or sometimes in winding closed loops,
with colored laminated cards with arrows that point the way. Having driven the
routes, I can tell you that it is harder than it sounds and that Drew has
developed techniques that can help keep you on course when you're trying to
watch traffic and follow a map and read a milepost-by-milepost narrative.
This year he did an analysis of the Toyota Prius entrants in the 2005 Monte
Carlo-style rally and came up with some interesting results.
"As I see it, the first Prius model is an honest 50 miles-per-gallon car. The
entrants varied in mileages from somewhere in the 40s to 70s, by typically right
around 50."
"The newer Prius, from the same that same data, looks more like a 45
mile-per-gallon car. Part of the reason for that is that they made
improvements to get better mileage, but they also made it into a bigger car.
For example, it is now a 5 seat car with larger frontal area and more weight.
So its improved efficiencies were eaten up by it being a bigger, heavier car.
I'd say that it is an honest 45 miles-per-gallon car. Some people are able to
make it do really well. We've seen some up into the 80s. But overall I see a
bigger car with lower mileage."
I asked Drew if part of what he was seeing could be the difference between
drivers of the first Prius, with several years of driving experience, vs.
drivers of the newer Prius with considerably less experience?
"That is a good point. One of things that made the newer Prius get less
mileage was that they were driving, on average, faster. You learn not to do
that if you want good, high mileage.
"We didn't have so many cars that we could say this is statistically
significant to any great degree, but at the same time that was the general
conclusion I came to. I'll be very interested in seeing if we draw the same
conclusion this year."
Can we say similar things about the Hondas?
"The Insight has been the same, year to year. Every manual Insight is like
every other; every automatic Insight is the same as every other also." So the
comparison between model years doesn't change much.
"What is really interesting are the folks who have put turbochargers and stuff
like that on the Insight. By increasing the engine horsepower and efficiency,
they can run the car at 80 miles per hour with 50-to-60 miles per gallon."
Drew's wife Barbara drove their 2002 Prius in both last year's and this year's
Monte Carlo rally. "She gets better with age. Last year she got 62.something
MPG and this year she got 63.6. She is quite happy."
We then looked at the data together.
2005 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo-style Rally & Fuel Efficiency Competition
Prius 2001-2003, 4 cars
31 MPG
45
51
64
==
48 MPG average
throw out the high and low data points: 48 MPG average
Prius 2004-2005, 9 cars
40
41
44
45
46
46
46
56
60
==
47 MPG average
throw out the high and low data points: 46 MPG average
Then I looked at the data at
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/documents/2006TdSMonteCarloResults_000.pdf
2006 Tour de Sol Monte Carlo-style Rally & Fuel Efficiency Competition at
Prius 2001-2003, 4 cars
52
52.8
53.7
63.6
====
55.5 MPG average
throw out the high and low data points: 53.2 MPG average
Prius 2004-2005, 1 car
54
66.8
====
53.2 MPG average
Check out the full Tour de Sol results at
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/2006Results.php
So I don't think the divergence is as great as Drew suggests. And these are
not statistically significant data. "Your mileage may (read `will') vary!"
But the way we get statistically significant data is by having many more
participants.
And if you are a driver of a hybrid, or _any_ vehicle that you think gets great
mileage, consider entering the Tour de Sol Fuel Efficiency Rally next year!
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #51: Photos - Drew and Barbara Gillett
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006/photos_022.html
Drew and Barbara Gillett
Looooong time volunteers at the Tour de Sol,
Barabara and Drew are often behind the scenes.
This year they took one of the first-place prizes in the Monte-Carlo Style Fuel
Efficiency Rally.
This should have been their moment in the sun, but ...
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ280003979615QQcmdZViewItem
Still 5 days to go and already 30 bids @ $40,000
Soon EVs will be seen as a good way to invest money ;-)
It is located right around the corner (relatively speaking),
close to the EV-breeding ground of Palo Alto.
Funny - this guy advertises the car with a Palm Pilot and raves
about it, but he apparently bought it just weeks ago.
I think he wanted to increase the resale value or he wanted to
keep his own Palm ;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TV Show Myth Busters tested this theory, and indeed, I recall found
that slightly better mileage was obtained with AC on and windows up,
than with windows down.
Christopher Zach wrote:
Robert Chew wrote:
Why not just open the windows! :-)
Actually I have done range tests with AC and with the windows open. In
highway driving, I use more power with windows down than with AC on.
AC does not take much power all things considered.
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Link?
I found a video linked here:
http://www.ecogeek.org/
Also features the (electrical!) Pivo.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Top Gear clip of Hy-Wire
The article at this page is pretty blah, but there is a video clip of
the GM Hy-Wire being test driven, explained, and disassembled.
This is what I would like to do with my conversion.
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert Chew wrote:
> In terms of 80% SOC voltage of the battery, does it vary with the
> current that's being injected into the batts? Please give an example
> of a single 12 volt battery.
When you charge at a (more or less) constant current, the 80% SOC point
is where the voltage begins to rise dramatically. Or, if you hold the
voltage constant, the 80% point is where the current falls to a low
value; 2-4% of the battery's amphour capacity.
Yes, the 80% point does occur at a different voltage depending on the
charging current at that time. For a 12v 100ah battery 80% SOC is about:
13.5v at 2a
14v at 3a
14.5v at 4a
15v at 5a
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
> Class F insulation? Isn't that a bit low in the heat department?
Yes; the old class H (now called class 180 = 180 deg.C) is the norm for
motors. The old class F is now called class 155 (155 deg.C).
> I remember the headaches that EVers had 20 years ago, using the
> old Baldor motors with (IIRC) class E insulation.
I think they had class B (now class 130 = 130 deg.C) insulation. That is
*very* low for a traction motor, so many of them burned up.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Repalce that fuel cell with a good set of batteries aaand.....!
Bill
Cor van de Water wrote:
Link?
I found a video linked here:
http://www.ecogeek.org/
Also features the (electrical!) Pivo.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Top Gear clip of Hy-Wire
The article at this page is pretty blah, but there is a video clip of
the GM Hy-Wire being test driven, explained, and disassembled.
This is what I would like to do with my conversion.
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick, do you more details on the Taurus conversion available?
What transmission was used? If you are spinning the electric motor and
the car isn't moving, there must be something..
Jack
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Matt, why do you think you need an external motor to drive the
accessories? Years ago I built a Ford Taurus with air conditioning and
power steering all driven off the auxiliary shaft. When you turned the
key to the start position a latching relay kept it on in idle position
so that steering and air would work. I used a cermet pot in line with
the PB6 in order to have very fine idle adjustment. It worked great!
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
I got my information from the Netgain web page at:
http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
Also, anyone know how accurate the range calculators are (like on
Ueve's page or www.evconvert.com)? Just as some background, I'm
looking to convert a 2000 Lincoln LS, and keeping A/C, P/S, and the
automatic transmission...I know I'll need an external motor to drive
the accessories...
-Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, July 3, 2006 9:32 am
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Hi Matthew , The 2k zilla that is in Paul's car was in my pick up
first .
You can see it spinning the wheels in 4th gear at
www.grassrootsev.com . I
have no clutch in that set up . After putting on bigger tires and
still
spinning the tires , the tranny started making a funny sound , so I
let Paul
have it , while we wait for Otmar to refill our plate :-)
----- Original Message ----- >
> I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride
around in
> his Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was
impressed
> with the performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
>
I'm making him a clutchless adapter , it will be much more
impressive with
out the clutch which now slips quite a bit.
> He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how
much torque
> the motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and
efficiency. The
> dyno graphs are at 72v, and don't really give real world
performance.
I haven't seen the graphs for the 11 , where did you see them . If
they are
at 2000 amp from 0 to 72v then we would know something as max
torque will
be at a low rpm .
Steve Clunn
>
> So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the
torque
> produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could
you share
> the equation with the list?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> -Matthew Drobnak
> Future EV driver :-)
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking about running some simulations with several settings lower
> Are there any specific limit points anyone would want to see?
> One would have to keep in mind these comparisons would be to a 4000 lb
> vehicle.
I wouldn't mind seeing 144v or 120v @ 300-400 Amps. I already have a 4000lb
vehicle with 18 floodeds @ 108 v and have my controller set to pull no more
than about 300 amps. Although it has some capacitors in it to give it a little
boost to about 400 for a few seconds (At least I'm pretty sure).
I would be curious to see if that makes much more difference in accel times to
30 and 45 mph. I guess to see if you could also safely merge on most freeways
at about 65mph too.
Thanks,
Chet
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Damon,
Thanks for the report. I'm interested to what the charging solution ended
up being. That will be great to not have to listen to the generator
anymore.
Well hopefully the DC/DC worked as well as looked. ;-)
Regards,
Chris Brune
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
> Things went pretty well. The first run of the night was in the 12.5 range
> and the second in the 12.3. Starting out with these two runs, we were all
> sure that it was going to be a record breaking night, but it was not to
be.
> The third run was in the 12.6 range and a couple more 12.3's. John was
> worried there might be something breaking up in the rear end again, and
the
> batteries were getting to hot to touch, so with the times seeming to have
> flattened out, John called it a night. I know he went home dissapointed,
> but I would imagine after a couple of days reflection, he's probably
pretty
> happy to have run so fast, so consistantly. Also, these times are the
> fastest he personally has ever run down the track in WZ. Tim Brehm made
the
> record setting runs.
>
> Also, we did mostly get the charging worked out, and after a couple of
hours
> were able to put away the generator. Now that it has been done once, I
> don't anticipate any more gas powered electric cars at PIR, so that will
be
> very nice.
>
> BTW - I took a look at your DC to DC. It looks great and has a prominent
> place over the front driver side fender !!! At least I think that was
your
> DC to DC. It was a new part I did not recognize.
>
> Damon
>
>
> >From: "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
> >Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:54:09 -0700
> >
> >Anyone have any reports on how things went at PIR on the 30th?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Chris Brune
> >
>
--- End Message ---
