EV Digest 5619
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: DC Motor torque calculations
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) "DC Inverter" heat pump
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) "More Electric Vehicles"
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) hot climate performance??
by mike phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: DC Motor torque calculations
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: hot climate performance??
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV digest 5618
by "David Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: hot climate performance??
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You can safely merge on a freeway with >any< vehicle that
can reach a 60-ish speed.
You just need more room and better timing if you have a
vehicle that needs more time to come up to that max speed.
Otherwise the large trailer trucks would neven make it onto
the freeway.
My truck needs a long time to come up to speed, so I hate it
when a SUV accelerates to overtake me, swerves in front of me
and brakes sharply to merge onto the (full) off-ramp.
I usually stay in the "truck" lane (nr 3 on the 4-lane 101)
Only when the normal lanes are slowing down and the carpool
lane is still moving will I go to the "fast" lane and merge into
the nr 2 if there is a queue behind me.
I am usually less than 6 miles on the freeway.
I sometimes take the Expressway instead (a local invention,
it is an arterial road with 50 MPH limit), though speeds are
often above 60 and it only has 2+2 lanes and enough traffic
lights to make it drain my batteries much faster than a
constant 55 to 60 on the Freeway.
BTW, my truck weighs about 4900 lbs and has a 50 kW motor
but at higher speeds the back-EMF and inductance limit the AC
current, so the power is limited to about 30 kW.
Because this is a fixed-gear setup, there is not much that
I can do about it, except for increasing the pack voltage.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chet Fields
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 9:30 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking about running some simulations with several settings lower
> Are there any specific limit points anyone would want to see?
> One would have to keep in mind these comparisons would be to a 4000 lb
> vehicle.
I wouldn't mind seeing 144v or 120v @ 300-400 Amps. I already have a 4000lb
vehicle with 18 floodeds @ 108 v and have my controller set to pull no more
than about 300 amps. Although it has some capacitors in it to give it a
little
boost to about 400 for a few seconds (At least I'm pretty sure).
I would be curious to see if that makes much more difference in accel times
to
30 and 45 mph. I guess to see if you could also safely merge on most
freeways
at about 65mph too.
Thanks,
Chet
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a list of 8 settings from 72V to 156V and 300A to 1000A. I'll
reconfigure my controller for each one and pull a couple of
these a day on my way to work this week. I should have something to show by the
weekend.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chet Fields
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:30 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
>
>
>
> --- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was thinking about running some simulations with several settings lower
> > Are there any specific limit points anyone would want to see?
> > One would have to keep in mind these comparisons would be to a 4000 lb
> > vehicle.
>
> I wouldn't mind seeing 144v or 120v @ 300-400 Amps. I already have a 4000lb
> vehicle with 18 floodeds @ 108 v and have my controller set to pull no more
> than about 300 amps. Although it has some capacitors in it to give it a little
> boost to about 400 for a few seconds (At least I'm pretty sure).
>
> I would be curious to see if that makes much more difference in accel times to
> 30 and 45 mph. I guess to see if you could also safely merge on most freeways
> at about 65mph too.
>
> Thanks,
> Chet
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack,
My guess is - the same as any ICE car that is idling out there....
Just simulate the ICE idling and you can continue to use the
accessories in the same way, it is the simplest way to make
a conversion work (but not the most efficient).
Some want to keep it simple and go for the manual gear (or
even fixed gear) would like to get rid of power steering by
swapping in a manual rack if the car did have PS and even
consider removing the vacuum assist for the brakes, although
it often is safer to keep that and add an electric vacuum
pump, which is not hard to do.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:12 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Roderick, do you more details on the Taurus conversion available?
What transmission was used? If you are spinning the electric motor and
the car isn't moving, there must be something..
Jack
Roderick Wilde wrote:
> Matt, why do you think you need an external motor to drive the
> accessories? Years ago I built a Ford Taurus with air conditioning and
> power steering all driven off the auxiliary shaft. When you turned the
> key to the start position a latching relay kept it on in idle position
> so that steering and air would work. I used a cermet pot in line with
> the PB6 in order to have very fine idle adjustment. It worked great!
>
> Roderick
>
> Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
> Your Online EV Superstore
> www.evparts.com
> 1-360-385-7082
> Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
> PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
> 108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:20 AM
> Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
>
>
>> I got my information from the Netgain web page at:
>> http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
>>
>>
>> Also, anyone know how accurate the range calculators are (like on
>> Ueve's page or www.evconvert.com)? Just as some background, I'm
>> looking to convert a 2000 Lincoln LS, and keeping A/C, P/S, and the
>> automatic transmission...I know I'll need an external motor to drive
>> the accessories...
>>
>> -Matt
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Monday, July 3, 2006 9:32 am
>> Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
>>
>>> Hi Matthew , The 2k zilla that is in Paul's car was in my pick up
>>> first .
>>> You can see it spinning the wheels in 4th gear at
>>> www.grassrootsev.com . I
>>> have no clutch in that set up . After putting on bigger tires and
>>> still
>>> spinning the tires , the tranny started making a funny sound , so I
>>> let Paul
>>> have it , while we wait for Otmar to refill our plate :-)
>>> ----- Original Message ----- >
>>> > I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride
>>> around in
>>> > his Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was
>>> impressed
>>> > with the performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
>>> >
>>> I'm making him a clutchless adapter , it will be much more
>>> impressive with
>>> out the clutch which now slips quite a bit.
>>>
>>>
>>> > He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how
>>> much torque
>>> > the motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and
>>> efficiency. The
>>> > dyno graphs are at 72v, and don't really give real world
>>> performance.
>>> I haven't seen the graphs for the 11 , where did you see them . If
>>> they are
>>> at 2000 amp from 0 to 72v then we would know something as max
>>> torque will
>>> be at a low rpm .
>>> Steve Clunn
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the
>>> torque
>>> > produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could
>>> you share
>>> > the equation with the list?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks a lot.
>>> >
>>> > -Matthew Drobnak
>>> > Future EV driver :-)
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
True, but 18 wheelers get a little more respect than our typical EV. ;-)
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You can safely merge on a freeway with >any< vehicle that
> can reach a 60-ish speed.
> You just need more room and better timing if you have a
> vehicle that needs more time to come up to that max speed.
> Otherwise the large trailer trucks would neven make it onto
> the freeway.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor, so you mean use a manual trans, and require the clutch to be used
so the motor can spin while idle? Seems a little silly. Only a SHO
taurus has manual trans, all the normal cars are automatics, which of
course, a torque converter allows idling, but doesn't seem appropriate
for electric motor, not to mention all the extra weight.
Since my '94 Aspire is running great, I bought a '98 Taurus with
pronounced dead motor, so have been conjuring..
Jack
Cor van de Water wrote:
Jack,
My guess is - the same as any ICE car that is idling out there....
Just simulate the ICE idling and you can continue to use the
accessories in the same way, it is the simplest way to make
a conversion work (but not the most efficient).
Some want to keep it simple and go for the manual gear (or
even fixed gear) would like to get rid of power steering by
swapping in a manual rack if the car did have PS and even
consider removing the vacuum assist for the brakes, although
it often is safer to keep that and add an electric vacuum
pump, which is not hard to do.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:12 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Roderick, do you more details on the Taurus conversion available?
What transmission was used? If you are spinning the electric motor and
the car isn't moving, there must be something..
Jack
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Matt, why do you think you need an external motor to drive the
accessories? Years ago I built a Ford Taurus with air conditioning and
power steering all driven off the auxiliary shaft. When you turned the
key to the start position a latching relay kept it on in idle position
so that steering and air would work. I used a cermet pot in line with
the PB6 in order to have very fine idle adjustment. It worked great!
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
I got my information from the Netgain web page at:
http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
Also, anyone know how accurate the range calculators are (like on
Ueve's page or www.evconvert.com)? Just as some background, I'm
looking to convert a 2000 Lincoln LS, and keeping A/C, P/S, and the
automatic transmission...I know I'll need an external motor to drive
the accessories...
-Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, July 3, 2006 9:32 am
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Hi Matthew , The 2k zilla that is in Paul's car was in my pick up
first .
You can see it spinning the wheels in 4th gear at
www.grassrootsev.com . I
have no clutch in that set up . After putting on bigger tires and
still
spinning the tires , the tranny started making a funny sound , so I
let Paul
have it , while we wait for Otmar to refill our plate :-)
----- Original Message ----- >
I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride
around in
his Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was
impressed
with the performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
I'm making him a clutchless adapter , it will be much more
impressive with
out the clutch which now slips quite a bit.
He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how
much torque
the motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and
efficiency. The
dyno graphs are at 72v, and don't really give real world
performance.
I haven't seen the graphs for the 11 , where did you see them . If
they are
at 2000 amp from 0 to 72v then we would know something as max
torque will
be at a low rpm .
Steve Clunn
So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the
torque
produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could
you share
the equation with the list?
Thanks a lot.
-Matthew Drobnak
Future EV driver :-)
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perusing eBay, I found an item that brought up a few questions.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280003104238 is a heat pump
that uses a "DC inverter", so it rectifies 120VAC, smooths its out to DC, then
runs it through a 3-phase inverter. If you could jump to just DC input
(especially a range of DC voltages), it might make a nice candidate for cooling
and heating a conversion.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend of mine who is registered with the IEE (in the UK) sent me
this this morning in an email. I haven't watched it all yet, but the
tip here is to fast forward in the presentation to about 14 12
minutes since the first bit of the broadcast seems to be the admin
guy setting up the webcam!
http://www.iet.tv/search/index.html?spres=4615
The IEE says "The presentation encompasses a brief overview of on-
going more-electric-vehicle research at the University of Manchester.
It aims to highlight the key themes common to autonomous and semi-
autonomous electric systems research: the need for energy storage,
systems integration, and the growing importance of systems modelling
tools." It's given by Dr Mike Barnes from Manchester University.
Nikki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope this isn't such an elementary question it's beneath people to answer,
but what happens to the performance, range, life, etc of an EV when operated
in Phoenix, Arizona conditions? (temps from 110-120 fahrenheit 4 months
out of every year)
Thanks,
MP
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ALL cars allow idling, the ICE does it, so if you
make the electric motor idle, it will work.
Both with automatic and manual transmission.
I did not say it is going to be efficient....
Personally, I am only looking at manual transmission cars...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 11:19 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Cor, so you mean use a manual trans, and require the clutch to be used
so the motor can spin while idle? Seems a little silly. Only a SHO
taurus has manual trans, all the normal cars are automatics, which of
course, a torque converter allows idling, but doesn't seem appropriate
for electric motor, not to mention all the extra weight.
Since my '94 Aspire is running great, I bought a '98 Taurus with
pronounced dead motor, so have been conjuring..
Jack
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Jack,
>
> My guess is - the same as any ICE car that is idling out there....
> Just simulate the ICE idling and you can continue to use the
> accessories in the same way, it is the simplest way to make
> a conversion work (but not the most efficient).
>
> Some want to keep it simple and go for the manual gear (or
> even fixed gear) would like to get rid of power steering by
> swapping in a manual rack if the car did have PS and even
> consider removing the vacuum assist for the brakes, although
> it often is safer to keep that and add an electric vacuum
> pump, which is not hard to do.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jack Murray
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:12 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
>
>
> Roderick, do you more details on the Taurus conversion available?
> What transmission was used? If you are spinning the electric motor and
> the car isn't moving, there must be something..
> Jack
>
> Roderick Wilde wrote:
>
>>Matt, why do you think you need an external motor to drive the
>>accessories? Years ago I built a Ford Taurus with air conditioning and
>>power steering all driven off the auxiliary shaft. When you turned the
>>key to the start position a latching relay kept it on in idle position
>>so that steering and air would work. I used a cermet pot in line with
>>the PB6 in order to have very fine idle adjustment. It worked great!
>>
>>Roderick
>>
>>Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
>> Your Online EV Superstore
>> www.evparts.com
>> 1-360-385-7082
>>Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
>> PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
>>108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>>Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:20 AM
>>Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
>>
>>
>>
>>>I got my information from the Netgain web page at:
>>>http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
>>>
>>>
>>>Also, anyone know how accurate the range calculators are (like on
>>>Ueve's page or www.evconvert.com)? Just as some background, I'm
>>>looking to convert a 2000 Lincoln LS, and keeping A/C, P/S, and the
>>>automatic transmission...I know I'll need an external motor to drive
>>>the accessories...
>>>
>>>-Matt
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Date: Monday, July 3, 2006 9:32 am
>>>Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Matthew , The 2k zilla that is in Paul's car was in my pick up
>>>>first .
>>>>You can see it spinning the wheels in 4th gear at
>>>>www.grassrootsev.com . I
>>>>have no clutch in that set up . After putting on bigger tires and
>>>>still
>>>>spinning the tires , the tranny started making a funny sound , so I
>>>>let Paul
>>>>have it , while we wait for Otmar to refill our plate :-)
>>>>----- Original Message ----- >
>>>>
>>>>>I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride
>>>>
>>>>around in
>>>>
>>>>>his Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was
>>>>
>>>>impressed
>>>>
>>>>>with the performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm making him a clutchless adapter , it will be much more
>>>>impressive with
>>>>out the clutch which now slips quite a bit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how
>>>>
>>>>much torque
>>>>
>>>>>the motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and
>>>>
>>>>efficiency. The
>>>>
>>>>>dyno graphs are at 72v, and don't really give real world
>>>>
>>>>performance.
>>>>I haven't seen the graphs for the 11 , where did you see them . If
>>>>they are
>>>>at 2000 amp from 0 to 72v then we would know something as max
>>>>torque will
>>>>be at a low rpm .
>>>>Steve Clunn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the
>>>>
>>>>torque
>>>>
>>>>>produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could
>>>>
>>>>you share
>>>>
>>>>>the equation with the list?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks a lot.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Matthew Drobnak
>>>>>Future EV driver :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Jul 2006 at 1:15, mike phillips wrote:
> what happens to the performance, range, life, etc of an EV when operated
> in Phoenix, Arizona conditions?
Obviously cooling is an issue, for the motor and the controller. But for
the typical commuter EV, the most annoying problem IMO is the hit in battery
cycle life. High operating temperatures are quick death for nicad and NiMH
batteries, and will significantly shorten the life of lead batteries. I
don't know about the effect on Lithium batteries.
My Solectria Force lived its first years in Arizona, as an APS employee.
Motor and inverter overheating weren't much of a problem, but its early 12v
flooded marine battery packs (various brands) seldom lasted through a
summer. I think the average life was around 9 months. The Hawkers did
better - about 2 years, IIRC.
Seems to me that GM's EV unit decided not to even try the NiMH EV-1 in AZ.
In CA they routed the air-con into the battery tunnel. (The battery
ventilation on that car was apparently not too well designed.) Someone
please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:29 PM
Subject: EV digest 5618
EV Digest 5618
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Golfcart diff on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) 9" series-wound Kostov on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Top Gear clip of Hy-Wire
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: My Cabby lives! (Zilla voltage/current limit question)
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: My Cabby lives! (Zilla voltage/current limit question)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 9" series-wound Kostov on eBay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: frontal area
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: 9" series-wound Kostov on eBay
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: frontal area
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Wikipedia EV conversion
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Air conditioning gains
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) TdS Report #50: Interview: Drew Gillett
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) TdS Report #51: Photos - Drew and Barbara Gillett
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Another RAV4 EV on Ebay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Top Gear clip of Hy-Wire
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Dump Charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: 9" series-wound Kostov on eBay
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Top Gear clip of Hy-Wire
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Performance is more a matter of battery voltage and current, motor armature
diameter, weight of batts/weight of chassis, etc.
I use my EV in summer in OR that will hit 105F for two months.
Warmer temps favor longer ranges. Drier climes are better for brushes,
commutator, etc. long-term. I'd be more worried about dust storms getting grit
into motor and controller.
That's all that comes to mind right now.
mike phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I hope this isn't such an elementary question it's beneath people to answer,
but what happens to the performance, range, life, etc of an EV when operated
in Phoenix, Arizona conditions? (temps from 110-120 fahrenheit 4 months
out of every year)
Thanks,
MP
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is three options to make a automatic work for a EV. One is to leave the
standard torque converter in and idle at about 600 rpm.
The torque converter will add about 1.75:1 in your startup. If your first
gear is a 2.75:1, then 2.75:1 times 1.75:1 times a 3.90:1 axle, then your
overall ratio will be about 18.76:1 which is enough to move a 8000 lb EV.
Installing a locking type torque converter, which you could lock up before you
start moving. You will lose 1.75:1 ratio of the torque converter, so now your
overall ratio is now 10.72:1 which is good for a 4500 lb EV.
To be able to start moving in a automatic at 0 rpm, this will require a
external transmission pump with a regulator. The two lines are tapped into the
raise cast portion on the front of the internal pump. One on the receiver
side, and one on the input side. A transmission shop, can show you were to
install these taps.
There is also a push start kit, that can bolt directly to the internal pump,
that has external lines tap offs.
Normally in this type of external pump installation, the torque converter is
either lock up or is replace with a internal pump shaft that comes off the EV
motor output coupler and slides over the splines of the input shaft of the
transmission. This leaves room for the lines to come off the front of the
internal pump, which goes to a external pump.
The external pump, can be the same type that are use in heavy duty trucks which
is used for pumping the transmission fluid to a cooling radiator.
You then can add a manual value body to the automatic, which will allow you to
stay in that gear. Some even have a extra levers coming out, that you connect
to your clutch pedal, so you can ease out the pedal and release the line
pressure.
Using a locking torque converter, you will have to install very close 90 degree
fittings coming off the internal pump so it will not touch the torque converter.
This set up is like having a 6 speed transmission in a converted 3 speed with 3
speeds manual. In my case, I going to have a wicked 34:1 overall ratio in 1st
gear which I can pull a 42 degree hill at about 200 amps, or if I start in 2nd
gear un-lock, I will have 19.495:1 overall ratio or in lock up it will be
15.31:1 in 1st gear or 9.74:1 in 2nd gear.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Murray<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Cor, so you mean use a manual trans, and require the clutch to be used
so the motor can spin while idle? Seems a little silly. Only a SHO
taurus has manual trans, all the normal cars are automatics, which of
course, a torque converter allows idling, but doesn't seem appropriate
for electric motor, not to mention all the extra weight.
Since my '94 Aspire is running great, I bought a '98 Taurus with
pronounced dead motor, so have been conjuring..
Jack
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Jack,
>
> My guess is - the same as any ICE car that is idling out there....
> Just simulate the ICE idling and you can continue to use the
> accessories in the same way, it is the simplest way to make
> a conversion work (but not the most efficient).
>
> Some want to keep it simple and go for the manual gear (or
> even fixed gear) would like to get rid of power steering by
> swapping in a manual rack if the car did have PS and even
> consider removing the vacuum assist for the brakes, although
> it often is safer to keep that and add an electric vacuum
> pump, which is not hard to do.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Private:
http://www.cvandewater.com<http://www.cvandewater.com/>
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com<http://www.proxim.com/>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jack Murray
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:12 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
>
>
> Roderick, do you more details on the Taurus conversion available?
> What transmission was used? If you are spinning the electric motor and
> the car isn't moving, there must be something..
> Jack
>
> Roderick Wilde wrote:
>
>>Matt, why do you think you need an external motor to drive the
>>accessories? Years ago I built a Ford Taurus with air conditioning and
>>power steering all driven off the auxiliary shaft. When you turned the
>>key to the start position a latching relay kept it on in idle position
>>so that steering and air would work. I used a cermet pot in line with
>>the PB6 in order to have very fine idle adjustment. It worked great!
>>
>>Roderick
>>
>>Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
>> Your Online EV Superstore
>> www.evparts.com<http://www.evparts.com/>
>> 1-360-385-7082
>>Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
>> PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
>>108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]>>
>>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
>>Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:20 AM
>>Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
>>
>>
>>
>>>I got my information from the Netgain web page at:
>>>http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
>>>
>>>
>>>Also, anyone know how accurate the range calculators are (like on
>>>Ueve's page or www.evconvert.com<http://www.evconvert.com/>)? Just as some
background, I'm
>>>looking to convert a 2000 Lincoln LS, and keeping A/C, P/S, and the
>>>automatic transmission...I know I'll need an external motor to drive
>>>the accessories...
>>>
>>>-Matt
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>>>Date: Monday, July 3, 2006 9:32 am
>>>Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Matthew , The 2k zilla that is in Paul's car was in my pick up
>>>>first .
>>>>You can see it spinning the wheels in 4th gear at
>>>>www.grassrootsev.com . I
>>>>have no clutch in that set up . After putting on bigger tires and
>>>>still
>>>>spinning the tires , the tranny started making a funny sound , so I
>>>>let Paul
>>>>have it , while we wait for Otmar to refill our plate :-)
>>>>----- Original Message ----- >
>>>>
>>>>>I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride
>>>>
>>>>around in
>>>>
>>>>>his Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was
>>>>
>>>>impressed
>>>>
>>>>>with the performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm making him a clutchless adapter , it will be much more
>>>>impressive with
>>>>out the clutch which now slips quite a bit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how
>>>>
>>>>much torque
>>>>
>>>>>the motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and
>>>>
>>>>efficiency. The
>>>>
>>>>>dyno graphs are at 72v, and don't really give real world
>>>>
>>>>performance.
>>>>I haven't seen the graphs for the 11 , where did you see them . If
>>>>they are
>>>>at 2000 amp from 0 to 72v then we would know something as max
>>>>torque will
>>>>be at a low rpm .
>>>>Steve Clunn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the
>>>>
>>>>torque
>>>>
>>>>>produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could
>>>>
>>>>you share
>>>>
>>>>>the equation with the list?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks a lot.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Matthew Drobnak
>>>>>Future EV driver :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
What a great night of electric drag racing Friday night was! No, White
Zombie did not achieve the goal of busting into the 11s, but the night
was still a big one as far as advancing the notion that electrics are
nothing to laugh at anymore. Many of my EV friends came to take in the
excitement. Of course, the usual suspects were there...Marko Mongillo,
Rich Rudman down from way up north in Washington state, and Damon Henry
(also from Washington across the river) who once again arrived on his
NiCad powered electric motorcycle. In addition to these guys, we were
also accompanied by Steve Kiser and Duane Gergich who brought their
electric drag bike down from Washington. Many from the OEVA (Oregon
Electric Vehicle Association) gang came too...Greg, Gary, Jay and others
I’m sure I’ve forgotten, and many of my forklift wrench work buddies
came, too. Members of my family also showed up. I appreciate all the
support!
Man, those 11's are hard to get! White Zombie did the usual job of
stunning those unfamiliar with today's level of electric car
performance, and yes, I toasted a built El Camino muscle car, beat
another muscle car, beat a 12 second 4 wheel drive turboed Sube ricer,
and held my own (but lost) with two pro stock cars, but nope, no
11-anything...just low 12's. I guess having an electric street legal
sedan that 'only' runs 12.3 @ 100+ mph consistently (all 5 runs were
100+ mph, with the average at 103 mph) aint all that bad :-) Still,
being honest in my assessment, I failed to hit my goal. No excuses this
time. Absolutely perfect weather, good (not great) track conditions, a
fully charged and fully heated up battery pack, and ultra-fast recharge
turn-around times were all on hand setting the stage for 11's, but it
wasn't o be.
There are, however, two reasons that seem to be validation for why the
car seems to have hit another performance wall.
(1) As Tim reported to me on the 2nd pass the only other time we've been
able to make runs at PIR this year (we got rained out after the third
run back in early June), that old bugaboo vibration issue is back...BIG
TIME. The car accelerates like crazy, with a great 60 ft. time and a
strong 1/8th mile time, but at between approximately 90 - 100 mph the
vibration begins and ramps up so strong, it feels like the car is going
to shake apart. The acceleration simply ceases as the car's power
appears to be totally absorbed by the vibration. Then, after what seems
to be maybe two l-o-n-g seconds, suddenly the vibration vanishes, the
car becomes turbine smooth again, and it resumes a fairly decent pull as
the speed goes higher again where the car gains those extra 3-4 mph to
where the trap speed comes out at 103-104 mph. If the vibration wasn't
there and those two seconds of stalled acceleration were replaced with
mild continued high mph acceleration, it's pretty clear to me after
driving the car, that the average ET of 12.3 @ 103-104 mph would have
dropped into high 11's @ 107-108 mph. Oh well, that wasn't the case
Friday night :-(
I suspect we've cracked the Ford nine inch casting again :-( The
instantaneous torque from the Siamese 8 fed with 2000 amps off line is
huge, and the series-to-parallel shift also at 2000 amps around 80 mph
is also brutal. In fact, on the last run Friday night, the car broke
traction at the shift-over point bad enough that the rear end got loose
and the rear tires squealed and chirped with wisps of smoke coming off
both tires (video captured)....this, at near 80 mph! I also noticed lots
of extra 'noises' from the rear end that got worse as the night went
on...not good! The last rebuild of the rear end revealed that we had
been dealing with pinion bearing wobble due to a full split across the
casting of the massive rear end, and that this was the source of the
vibration issue. After another perfect condition 9 inch casting was
found, a pro Ford nine inch rebuilder installed a new Richmond Gear set,
all new bearings, etc., and the vibration was totally gone. Now, it's
back :-( Guess I'm gonna be pulling the rear end out soon to see what's up.
(2) After repeated hard runs and fast recharges, the pack got so hot
that touching the aluminum case nearly burned my hand. The last run of
the night vented the batteries and lifted the pop-on top covers on
several. No squirting liquid and no pooled electrolyte, but they did
vent and make a very light fog that lasted maybe 30 seconds on the
inside of the Lexan compartment cover. This model battery is rated at
925 amps for 5 seconds, and I'm pulling 1000 amps for an average of
double that amount of time, so the batteries are performing well above
their specs.
With the vibration halting top end acceleration and with very hot
stressed-out batteries, I made the decision after 5 strong runs to cut
my losses and stop racing for the night to save the pack. Four days
after the races, all the batteries measure good and the pack rests at
390V, the same it usually does at 75-80 degrees. If any damage was done,
it seems to be minimal, so I'm glad I didn't keep punishing the pack.
Conclusions...
(1) Until I can fix the problem and eliminate the vibration, I don't
think the car is going to hit the 11's...it simply robs too much power.
(2) Strong as they are, I'm close to extracting the max possible power
from the battery pack. According to the graphs Mark Farver made off
Zilla info, at the beginning of a run, each 12V battery falls to about
8.2V at 1000 amps giving about 246 kw (330 hp) of initial power. Near
the end of the 12 second run, each battery has fallen as low as 5.5V
with the pack making just 165 kw of power (221 hp).
I'm rethinking the current stack of 30, 26 ahr, 24 lb. Hawker
Aerobatteries. I remember back to 2000 when I ran a 378 lb. 336V pack of
the half-sized Hawker 16 EP models, 16 ahr 13.5 lb. little bricks of
power that could deliver 750 amps during low 13 second runs, over, and
over. At 750 amps each battery would sag to ~6.9V (going off analog
gauges in the car). A double string of 30 of these for 60 total
batteries would make a 360V pack that weighs about 90 lbs. more. This
pack would sag less than the current packs does at 1000 amps, while
cranking out a whopping 1500 battery amps! Assuming a conservative 6.5V
per battery of initial sag, the pack would kneel to 195V at 1500 amps
for 295 kw (395 hp) of power giving 65 more hp than the current pack of
26 ahr batteries do. It's possible that the overly beefy intercell
straps inside the smaller 16 ahr models contain heating under high loads
better than the larger 26 ahr units the car currently has. Back when we
were racing in the 90's, the earliest versions of the 16 ahr batteries
would fuse open their internal cell straps. After sending destroyed
batteries to Hawker engineers, they redesigned the batteries with
beefier straps...cool. Perhaps the strapping of the bigger 26 ahr models
aren't as proportionately beefy, and with 1000 amps passing through them
(250 amps more than when using their smaller batteries) the inter-cell
straps are a limiting factor...they probably get pretty hot inside the
battery. This would explain the rapid heat build-up and subsequent
venting. On the flip side, it's also possible that with the vibration
eliminated and thus the power robbing issue gone, the car might just
crack the 11's with the current pack. No decision has been made here,
I'm just blabbing my thoughts...
OK, enough post racing analysis...on with the fun parts.
The big show of the night came from Steve Kiser and Duane Gergich with
their electric drag bike. Formerly Father Time's 'Dragon Rose', at the
Sept. '04 Woodburn drags with Duane doing the driving, this gorgeous
156V bike set a NEDRA world record for the MT/D class when it ran an
impressive 12.497 @ 100.7 mph! Steve and Duane now own the bike and have
it in pristine condition these days, with lustrous cherry red paint and
the thing detailed to the max...it's beautiful to look at! They had it
on display at the June 24th SEVA Gasless on Greenwood car show, where I
brow beat them, shamed them, and downright taunted them into bring the
machine south to Portland to join me for Friday night electric drag racing.
I had written:
> As a bonus for EV racing fans, Duane Gergich and Steve Kiser will be
joining us with their Father Time-built outrageous drag bike
> that has run 12.4 @ 100 mph. I twisted their arms yesterday at the
SEVA Greenwood car show.
Well, came they did!
The bike's now nearly 5 year old Hawker batteries, 13 of the little 13
ahr models that weigh just 10.5 lbs. each, had sat un-charged and
un-loved for the past 1.5 years since the record was set...argghh! Yet,
after being charged, driven on, and charged a few times the batteries
shed their sulfation and flexed their electro-chemical muscles and made
some serious power! Can you say 12.5 @ 100 mph? Can you say that, twice?
Before these two great runs though, Duane had a tough time getting his
act together :-) His first run netted an embarrassing 63 mph at 14
seconds....wait...how do you only get 63 mph with a 14 second run?
Easy...you get confused and let off the throttle at the 1/8th mile
marker! Boy, we had Duane hanging his head in shame over this one, and a
certain Plasma Boy took advantage of the moment and really rubbed it in.
Duane took it in stride and laughed along with the rest of us (at
himself), then turned around and stuck it to everybody! After the track
announcer told everyone there was an electric motorcycle in the burnout
pit, Duane decided to shut up the snickers over a 63 mph motorcycle, and
with Steve out on track setting up the burnout perfectly with staging
help, he gave a dramatic go-ahead hand motion, signaling Duane to do the
most scorching bike burnout I've ever seen! It was awesome.
I had also written:
> I can hardly wait to see the crowd's reaction to their quick very red
electric bike with it's BIG electric motor clearly visible, and the fat
>drag slick and long wheelie bar extension making quite statement.
>
The crowd indeed, went nuts cheering and hooting. Then, after expending
a lot of power into the burnout, Duane made the Hawkers puke out even
more power and jammed the bike down the track running a 12.8 second
blast! Hawkers rock! Yeah, this wiped away all those snickers! After
that run, came the 12.5 second 100 mph runs back to back...very
impressive for a non-advanced 8 inch ADC motor, just 156V worth of 5
year old Hawkers, and a Raptor controller. Imagine the motor properly
advanced, 192V of brand new Hawkers, and a Zilla Z1K? Can you say 11's?
How 'bout 300+V of hi current LiIons, a Zilla, and the same motor
prepped by Jim Husted? Can you say 'Hello, Bill Dube?"
Much of the credit for the bike's strong showing has to go to Madman
Rudman, as he had charging the bike down, big time! After I had argued
with him about getting us all hooked into the AC mains at the track so I
could shut off the damn stink'n generator in the back of my service
truck, and after he found a maintenance shack where the power pigtail
box equipped with the Cam Lok connectors was stored, and after he made a
special run to a local home improvement type store to get more
electrical parts, he had us wired! Gone was the noise and stink,
replaced with silent and abundant AC power! Using my PFC50x, during
Zombie recharging, ~12 kw of power was rapidly sent into the hungry
pack, 29.8 amps @ 401V, and the turn-around time was about 7
minutes...every bit as good as I used to get with a dump charge pack!
Madman repeatedly charged the bike up to 80% in 3 minutes and it was
fully charged and ready to run again in 5 scant minutes...a 5 minute
turn-around! Of course, the mighty Hawkers simply took in the power,
dished it out, then took it in again...remember, they are nearly 5 years
old, and sat for 1.5 years uncharged and unused...incredible batteries!
Did I say, Hawkers rock?
Back to White Zombie...The night was bitter sweet, with the first run
one of the most exciting, for sure. Normally, the first run comes in at
around 13 flat, with the second run a high 12, then subsequent runs
getting quicker as the battery pack heats up. Friday started off much
better though. For the first attempt, White Zombie was lined up next to
a very loud V8 muscle car, a green Chevy El Camino with a built 350 cid
V8. This bad ass machine had fat drag slicks in back and its heavily
cammed V8 lumped and thumped at idle in true muscle car fashion. At the
burnout pits the Chevy did a ferocious burnout that had the crowd's
attention immediately...all the while I drove around the water pit and
waited for him to end his testosterone fueled display of power. I had
figured that with a wimpy first run going to be in the low 13s, why
bother to do a burnout? The El Camino driver was serving notice that the
little 'ol Datsun next to him was going to get blown away, and he was
jabbing the throttle making the car jump...the car acted much like a
bull does as he snorts and claws the dirt. The best part, is that this
whole showdown was captured by a professional camera crew that had come
down from Seattle to do a special on 'White Zombie vs the muscle cars'.
I had previously written:
> there was a reporter/camera crew covering the Greenwood EVent....the
reporter/camera crew are heading to Portland to film both >electrics
running against the gassers this Friday, and to hopefully capture White
Zombie cracking the 11s.
So, why were these guys so pumped about coming to the drags to get this
on tape? It goes back to the Seattle car show on June 24th. The
interview guy is a hoot, and goes by the nickname ‘Pixel’. Pixel had
talked with me about having seen both the ‘Sucking Amps’ show featuring
Rod Wilde, his crew, and ‘Gone Postal’, and the ‘Monster Garage episode
featuring the build crew that included Mad Man Rudman and Shawn Lawless.
He commented that for him it was disappointing that in both shows, the
electrics didn’t actually win their races and that cool as they were, in
the end they underperformed for this reason or that, and they got beat
by the gas cars. He then said to me, “So, you actually ‘win’ races
against the gassers?” I said, “Sure, I beat them all the time. I also
loose to them as well. There’s always faster cars. But in general, White
Zombie is very competitive with the cars it runs against, and it wins
more than loses the heads up matches it gets into.” Pixel then said,
“Cool, then the world needs to see this. There needs to be a show where
the electric beats the gas cars. Note....I'm not trying to diss any of
my EV buddies or their hard earned accomplishments here, these comments
are direct quotes from Pixel.
Back to the track....Frankly, I was a bit concerned that this first
battle might not turn out so great for the cameras, as the El Camino
'did' sound and look as if it could kick my Datsun's butt. I would later
hear that some of the younger dudes who knew my car had put their money
on the Zombie. We staged as the announcer told everyone that the little
white Datsun was an electric car. Then the tree's lights sequenced
down...yellow, yellow, yellow....FLOOR the
ACCELERATOR!!!!....Green.....Wheels lift, nose in the air, my neck
snapped back, and the race was on! The El Camino's V8 roared and shook
my guts, but the sound faded as he couldn't stay with the Zombie. The
run felt strong and the Zombie pulled hard, then the parallel up shift
happened accompanied by a brief rear end swing as the drag radials broke
loose then grabbed. I could still hear the El Camino at full boil, but I
could also see him in my rear view mirror :-) The best part for me, is
that this poor muscle head dude had to read the 'SUCK AMPS' plastered
across the Zombie's rear window all the way down the track as he was
getting whupped by a little 'ol tin can Datsun (as Rudman calls it) with
a bunch of batteries! The finish line reader boards said it all....El
Camino 13.091 @ 100.75 mph - White Zombie 12.524 @ 101.76 mph, all
captured by a professional film crew! Never, had White Zombie been
driven to the track to run a mid 12 out of the box...an incredible first
run for the night, and we were all convinced the car was poised to rip
into the 11s. Of course, it felt great knowing the camera crew had
already got what they came for....filming an electric car take on and
beat muscle cars.
To be continued....
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
