EV Digest 5627
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)Comments.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Torque Slam was: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: micro-monorail project needs tech input or FUNicular RR
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Current Eliminator running?
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Who Killed the Electric Car T-shirts (front and back design)
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Closing the Gap
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Current Eliminator running?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: battery box clearance
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: White Zombie hammering
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Fw: An Automotive Zoo, Horns for EV's
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: White Zombie hammering
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Closing the Gap
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Closing the Gap
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Update , From Tony's
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: White Zombie hammering
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Looking for a quite vacuum pump
by "Lewis, Brian K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) 3 Phase motor substitute?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Taurus EV
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 3 Phase motor substitute?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)Comments.
> Bob Rice wrote:
>
> > Racing is an expensive hobby!
>
>
> My favorite quote, "The way to make a small fortune in
> racing is to start out with a large fortune."
>
> Bill Dube'
>
Good One! I thought it was to make a small fortune in the Electric Car Biz
was to start with a large fortune.:Bob Aronson?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
>
> On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > He is breaking his drive train with the torque slam on the start and
> > at s/P.
> > Most racers ...ie ICE driven racers can load the drive train until the
> > Green
> > light.. John can't because he has to bump up to the lights, and then
> > the
> > back lash is still loose when he launches...
>
> Would it be possible to drop around 20 amps on the motor when the tree
> starts to count down? This could be a simple controller bypass
> resistor. I don't think 20 amps for for a few seconds could
> significantly heat the commutator bars but it would provide around 3
> ft/lb. of torque to at least take the slack out (it wouldn't really
> pre-load it but drastically shorten the hammer stroke.)
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
Hi EVerybody;
You Bet! That small amount of"slack" can kill the best intended machines.
Dennis duz this on Current Elininater as do better electric locomotives.
EVen if John or Tim hold a few amps on the juice pedal as the tree goes
down, IF they don't already?Often notice a BANG as a EV racer launches, In a
Perfect World it should just GO!No noise, but uit is often hard to tell,
with all the ICE racket about on the strip.
My two cogs worth.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: micro-monorail project needs tech input
> The term is "funicular".
> But IS it? A funicular Railway has TWO "Cars" and a simple pulley
system, a motor at the top to run the cable drum, the cars just go along for
the ride, it works best if both cars are about the same weight. Anybody in
the Pittsburgh area is VERY familiar with Funiculars, they still have a
few.I have taken liberty with the English language and have called a
ELECTRIC Railway in the mountains a Electrical Funicular, IF the power
generated by a train going DOWN the mountain powers one UP the other side?
Uses cables, the overhead wires.FUNicular Railways; And "Funicula
Funicula"the cool song" Joy is Every Where Tra la lala lalalalla"You won't
hear that one on the Blue Meanie's sound system<g>!
Another train song's worth.
> Danny
>
> David Sofio wrote:
>
> > I'm working on feasibility for a micro-monorail (NOT anything like an
> > infrastructure project; it would be for maybe four adults, or a bunch
of
> > building material, etc) to get up some difficult terrain to places
> > higher on
> > my hillside property.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All I see the specs say is: top speed n/a; cruise speed 97 MPH.
Maybe they did the km/h to miles/h conversion incorrectly and
they now adapted the website?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
I thought you might all like to know about this:
http://www.gowheel.com/evDaytona_motorcycle.html If only I could learn more
about computers in order create world record breaking electrics. Heck, I end
up doing it the hard way by having to go out to the shop. It just seems like
sitting behind a computer would be so much easier :-) For your information
the still standing land speed record for an electric motorcycle at
Bonneville Salt Flats is 165.367 MPH set in 1974 by Mike Corbin.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis,
Are you running this weekend?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks Danny, Chris and Lee, after reading few times more your explanations,
i think i got it right and can now store it in brain stack for a while
:^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: Comparing batteries - was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
> The way I interpret it as the chemical composition of the surface gets
> depleted under high current discharges. I believe this makes it "run
> down" on the plate's surface and it behaves pretty much like the battery
> is run down. The Peukert exponent is really just a constant based on
> how fast diffusion will restore the plates.
>
> I think this is an accurate description, though Peukert's has no
> official description of what's happening. I have to note that the
> battery technology which maintains output voltage well regardless of
> charge state (NiMH/NiCd) is the technology largely unaffected by
> Peukert's. That's consistent with my interpretation of it, the plate's
> surface becomes depleted somewhat and makes it put out the voltage of a
> run-down battery, but for that technology the battery voltage does not
> decrease much in a run-down cell.
>
> Another way of viewing Peukert's- which is not a hypothetical
> speculation but simply a reinterpretation of the equation- is that a
> battery of X percent charge is capable of putting out Y amps without
> dropping below Z volts per cell. It is somewhat inaccurate to say that
> Peukert's decreases the battery capacity. In fact battery capacity is
> still there and available for lower current discharges. Peukert's just
> describes limits on how much current you can pull a given charge state
> while maintaining useful output voltage.
>
> Danny
>
> Chris Jones wrote:
>
> >Philippe wrote:
> >
> >"I don't catch the difference result between peukert's
> >effect and ohms' law effect you speak about, for my
> >understanding seems the same"
> >
> >Googling Peukert infers that it has to do with
> >chemical composition of the battery getting out of
> >balance, lowering the chemical reaction's ability to
> >generate power just like it had been drained. But
> >when allowed to rest, the chemicals come back in to
> >balance, at least part way, and the power producing
> >capability comes back. Perhaps some energy is lost to
> >heat, I am not sure.
> >
> >Ohm has to do with heat energy lost inside the
> >battery's equivalent of an internal resistor, all
> >forever lost to heat. Upon further reflection, the
> >energy lost does appear to be independent of discharge
> >rate (thank you Lee for your correction). So it looks
> >like Valence does have a pure Peukert effect of 10%
> >energy loss vs. 50% for the lead acid battery they
> >chose when going from 20 to 60A in a U1 module.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Twin controllers would probably make John's car go faster. (It
would certainly make Otmar smile.)
What!? You want to overload me even more!?
My backlog is embarrassingly long already. I'm sure he's fine with one. ;)
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:53 AM -0700 7/6/06, Rich Rudman wrote:
Otmar's Curse/Blessing at the s/P change over is just too brutal. At the
power levels and RPM that Wayland is making.. he's totally unloading the
diffy for 500 msec then going back to full amps in like 50 Ms. This is like
using a 100 lbs Sledge hammer with a 2000 lbs strong arm on the gear faces
and bearings. This happens on Every run at the same point.
We have to find a better way of changing over the contactors.
Ya, you are right there. I need to update the software for a softer
S/P switch. But it takes time to do that...
I think I can do better runs by using the manual s/P switch and a little
practice.
Good old two by fowr Rudman has been thinking that for a while, Yet
here I am, still awaiting some proof. :)
Ok, never mind proof, I'll settle for some theory. :)
For those who don't know, Rich and I have been "discussing" this for
a while, ever since Gone Postal was being built. I'd love to hear the
better algorithm, but haven't heard it yet. :-)
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I think the design is completely ready to go
Front Design
http://www.evadc.org/images/wktectshirt_front.jpg
Back Design
http://www.evadc.org/images/wktectshirt_back.jpg
I'm thinking between $20 and $25 per shirt which will include the
cost of shipping Priority Mail. I'll have a better idea once I take
it in to the printers. This will be a limited run of shirts.
Chip Gribben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I was thinking of reducing the space between the pole pieces and my armature
in my 7" (15" long) series motor to improve efficiency (and in part due to a
3.3 milli-ohm, 28 uH coil sold to me by Warfield to replace my zorched
6milli-ohm 58 uH coil).
I think they sold me a 8" field coil set since it doesn't quite follow the
contour of the inside of the motor. Since the coil is beefier I think this
will result in field weakening so to compensate for the reduced field I put 10
mil aluminum flashing cutout behind the pole pieces and reassembled thus
reducing the gap from 20 mils to 10 mils. I also had to sand smooth the pole
pieces since some laminations were sticking up higher than others & to get a
smooth surface in order to reduce the gap.
I was curious if the magnetic field goes through the case substantially and
I should re-do with steel shims?
It appears most of the magnetic field goes out through the pole pieces to the
armature but I'm not sure about this since a coil by it's nature puts out a
bidirectional field.
BTW 3.3milli-ohms series field at 300A is 297W loss (I2r) and 6 milli-ohms is
540W loss so I should save 243 watts if it works ok. Presently the motor case
runs up to 180F on a 95F day after an hour of running (about 30 miles) in the
Cushman.
Best Regards,
Mark
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 7/7/06 12:49:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Dennis,
Are you running this weekend?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org >>
If there is no rain I will be at Firebird tonight just for practice.I will be
adjusting the brush rack to get more top end and slowing down the 1st 1/8
mile. Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't remember if you're doing floodies, or AGM.
With AGM, I've got 1/4" over the batt. caps, and no
ill effects.
I don't wash that way-- wet rag/baking soda.
--- Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm planning the new battery box for my car,
> probably using (for now) the existing one,
> which is set into the floor of the trunk, and
> just make a plastic cover. I understand that there
> should be some space around the sides to allow for
> a bit of expansion, but what about above the
> batteries?
>
> I plan to have an exhaust fan, so I'm wondering
> how much space I need above the batteries for
> air flow. Also, would it help to have room for
> airflow below or on the sides?
>
> Also, I read on this list two things -
> 1. It's good to set the batteries in a bed of
> Baking Soda (ok, I understand)
> 2. It's good to have a watertight battery box
> with a drain, and wash the batteries.
> (ok, I understand)
>
> ...and he asked, "But they can't both be right!?"
> ...and they answered: "You're right also!"
>
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I always get that circuit messed up. This seems more appropriate?
Unfortunantely this has the diode drop during the series launch, but
probably is a heck of a lot better makeing a 1/2 output voltage jump
than the previous that would have to break under load.
With their experience with those hockey puck SCR's it seems we could use
scr's in place of the contacts. The zilla would maintain the gate drive
so it wouldn't drop out the scrs or try to attempt to switch because of
the PWM from the zilla. I think the scr's have a pretty low on resistance?
_______
Pack+__|B+ M+|_____________________
| | | _|_
| | _|_ / \ motor
| | ___ diode \___/ 1
| Zilla | |_____|/_______|
| | _|_ |\ |
| | / \ motor _|_
| | \___/ 2 ___ contactor
Pack-__|B- M-|______|______________|
|_______|
_______
Pack+__|B+ M+|_____________________
| | | _|_
| | _|_ / \ motor
| | scr diode \___/ 1
| Zilla | / |_____|/_______|
| | _|_ |\ |
| | / \ motor _|_
| | \___/ 2 scr
Pack-__|B- M-|______|______________| \
|_______|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JC Whitney - Everything AutomotiveHi EVerybody;
Check out "train Horns" Just the thing for yur EV!
Giving a Hoot!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: JC Whitney Catalog
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: An Automotive Zoo
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Shabino wrote:
> Am I missing something here? If you ever closed "bubba" you would have
> a direct short between M+ and M- via D1 and D2.
Oops; you're correct! This is the standard rectactor circuit for
series/paralleling batteries. I redrew the circuit, but didn't really
look at it. He had the diodes backwards (for battery use). And for
motors, the diodes and contactors need to be interchanged, like this:
_______
Pack+__|B+ M+|_____________________
| | _|_ _|_
| | ___ Bubba #1 / \ motor #1
| | | \___/
| Zilla | |_____|/|______|
| | _|_ |\| |
| | / \ _|_
| | \___/ motor #2 ___ Bubba #2
Pack-__|B- M-|______|______________|
|_______|
This *will* work. With the contactors off, the motors are wired in
series. With the contactors on, the motors are in parallel. But you need
two (instead of three) big contactors, plus a big diode.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mark
Every shim I've ever seen has been steel, I'd switch to steel shims. BTW
it's amazing how untrue some pole shoes faces can be isn't it.
Hope this helps.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
I was thinking of reducing the space between the pole pieces and my armature in
my 7" (15" long) series motor to improve efficiency (and in part due to a 3.3
milli-ohm, 28 uH coil sold to me by Warfield to replace my zorched 6milli-ohm
58 uH coil).
I think they sold me a 8" field coil set since it doesn't quite follow the
contour of the inside of the motor. Since the coil is beefier I think this will
result in field weakening so to compensate for the reduced field I put 10 mil
aluminum flashing cutout behind the pole pieces and reassembled thus reducing
the gap from 20 mils to 10 mils. I also had to sand smooth the pole pieces
since some laminations were sticking up higher than others & to get a smooth
surface in order to reduce the gap.
I was curious if the magnetic field goes through the case substantially and I
should re-do with steel shims?
It appears most of the magnetic field goes out through the pole pieces to the
armature but I'm not sure about this since a coil by it's nature puts out a
bidirectional field.
BTW 3.3milli-ohms series field at 300A is 297W loss (I2r) and 6 milli-ohms is
540W loss so I should save 243 watts if it works ok. Presently the motor case
runs up to 180F on a 95F day after an hour of running (about 30 miles) in the
Cushman.
Best Regards,
Mark
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Mark E. Hanson" wrote:
> I was thinking of reducing the space between the pole pieces and my
> armature in my 7" (15" long) series motor to improve efficiency
It will have a negligible effect on efficiency. Mainly, reducing the gap
increases the field strength, so the motor runs slower and has more
torque at any given voltage and current.
> (and in part due to a 3.3 milli-ohm, 28 uH coil sold to me by Warfield
> to replace my zorched 6 milli-ohm 58 uH coil).
If this is the field itself, then reducing the gap raises the
inductance.
> I think they sold me a 8" field coil set since it doesn't quite follow
> the contour of the inside of the motor.
I would think a full 1" difference in diameter would be easily
recognizable. Certainly it would really mess up the gap!
> I put 10 mil aluminum flashing cutout behind the pole pieces and
> reassembled thus reducing the gap from 20 mils to 10 mils.
Aluminum is the same as air magnetically. To reduce the gap, you have to
use *iron or steel* shims (something like old transformer laminations).
> I also had to sand smooth the pole pieces since some laminations were
> sticking up higher than others & to get a smooth surface in order to
> reduce the gap.
That's useful. If some laminations stick up more, then the magnetic flux
preferentially flows from them. Just like electrical arcing between two
rough surfaces; the arc concentrates between the closest points. The
concentrated flux increases magnetic losses, lowering efficiency.
It also adds wind resistance. There is a tremendously turbulent airflow
in the gap between rotor and stator!
High quality motors will carefully smooth, even polish the surfaces of
the rotor and stator in the gap to minimize these losses.
> I was curious if the magnetic field goes through the case substantially
Yes, it does. The complete magnetic circuit is:
- in thru a field coil,
its pole piece,
air gap to armature,
- thru the armature iron,
armature coils,
- out thru the armature iron,
air gap back to an adjacent field pole piece,
thru pole piece,
field coil,
to outside case,
- and thru case back to the original field coil's pole piece.
Thus the outside case is part of the magnetic path. You want to minimize
the gap between the pole pieces and the case.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I can't speak for the technical issues (other than to raise my
eyebrows at the claims) but I can say this: if you google their
phone number you get over a half-dozen different organizations, all
at the same address - website design, race horses (ooh! "Hot
Equestrians!), something about art and world
They also do website design, eh? Here's a tip: if you're going to
make extravagant claims about your product to bring in investors, it
might be to your benefit to swing by the local community college and
hire someone who actually knows something about design. And learn the
difference between a warrantee and a warranty.
Oh - and the blue bike on the website is an obvious and very
clumsy fake, which actually does appear
As is the red bike. It's a poor Photoshop job.
I'm sorry but everything about this yells SCAM. I hope I'm wrong. I
hope they've actually got a product.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
Electric Motorcycle Listserv
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Time for a Tony Ascrizzi update. Shoulda posted LAST week. I have been up to
Tony's a few times in the last few weaks. The good news, first. I sorta wen't
off half cocked before, about the Dump Truck Runaway. Basing my Post on only
what I had heard from the news broadcast and talking to Tony on the fone. Turns
out the Construction co DID have some insurance! Good News, and they wanna
settle up! YES! When I was up at Tony's he had a constant flow of just PEOPLE,
in suits, perusing the wreckage, with cameras and clipboards. People from the
City of Wooster(Worcester)and almost EVERYwhere! People would just drive by,
stop, and gawk, both on Payne Street and the embankment above, as the trees and
fences were swept away, it is barren now. A green dumpster sits up top,
overlooking Tony's recreation of the World Trade Center scene. EVen SMELLS like
the WTC!The cleanup crew came in and scooped TONS of dirt away as well as
making neat piles of metal scrap, dead, melted motorcycles,!
tools and just STUFF. We dug some motors out of the wreckage, I think the Red
Beastie's motor and tranny are salvagable. we'll dig it out and roll it over
and drop them out. Tranny still clicks through the gears.I would imagine burnt
traction motor COULD be reserected by Warfield Electric?Question here, would
intense heat destroy the metal and magnetic properties of motors? They DO burn
dead motors to get the old insulation out anyhow? Jim? any ideas?I'm SURE
you're looking for and at a new Comm, for sure?
The fire COULD be a break for Tony? EVen though it wasn't for the poor
truck driver. He died of his inguries a few daze later. IF he get's a good lump
settlement from the Homeowners and Truk folks? He could take the money and run?
The 'hood there was going to hell, anyhow? You can hardly give away an old
house in an upcoming ghetto.YThey just don't " Total" out houses? one
Guesstimate to renovate or fix up the house ran 400k, that is an extreame, Hy
ball figure. House MAY be worth 100k, it could be subdivided into dozens of
rentable rooms for the illegal immigrant crowd? IOn that it would probably
sell? Tony's ready to move on. It is pretty depressing dealing with the City.
THEY want tio upgrade the house to current codes? This would cost a FORTUNE!
Think old gas light fixtures still around, in a house built in 1899! I woulda
thought that electricity was common in major cities in 1899? Worcester was a
major player in industrial America 100 years ago. EVen Pullman cars w!
ere BUILT there, right up to the 60's, electric ones for the Long Island RR.
These detaily things will hafta be hashed out in the next few weeks or
months. As the house has no electricity, but DUZ have water, still, damn city
turned off the GAS pretty quick.He can't LIVE there, still. A Temp Electric
service drop is being installed, but the City doesn't want it just hooked up,
bring everything up to code, bullshit. I can see Tony being diss-gruntled with
the City beauracracy! He HAS enough batteries in the cellar, hooked up that he
could run the UPstairs apartment , undamaged, for weeks IF he could get down
cellar to access the stuff down there. Tions of dirt, fast delivered by the
truck, have prevented access to the cellar. Tons of Tony's cool stuff SHOULD be
OK down there. Those of you who have been to the EAA Meetings there know what
the celler is like.The "Meeting Room" and good stuff EVerywhere. Controllers,
motors, cables, just STUFF we all can use.Should be OK? Sorta like opening up
those Egyptian Tombs after thousands of years.
Meanwile, out in the back yard, Tony had a few 'Conex" boxes for storage.
The 20 foot shipping containers, you see everywhere. One just roasted all the
tools an' stuff inside! It didn't burn, steel is good that way, and they are of
robust construction. The other one was further away from the blaze. The Rabbit?
Yes! They, the insurance co is gunna FIX it. It is scorched on one side,
plastic mirror melded, all rubber gasketing and windshield cracked and
destroyed, but car still gioes! It is over at a friends place for now. It will
be a challange for the body shop for PARTS for sure! The news vids show the
damn firepeople climbing on it. Christ! If they just released the handbrake and
PUSHED it in the clear?Woulda saved some money and damage!?Probably woulda had
to bust a window to get in, but it would have been cheaper than fixing fire
damage!I have extra Rabbit windows that I havent thrown away..yet.
Any how that was an update. Stay tuned, more to follow EVentually.
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Unfortunantely this has the diode drop during the series launch, but
> probably is a heck of a lot better making a 1/2 output voltage jump
> than the previous that would have to break under load.
>
> With their experience with those hockey puck SCRs it seems we could use
> SCRs in place of the contacts. The zilla would maintain the gate drive
> so it wouldn't drop out the scrs or try to attempt to switch because of
> the PWM from the zilla. I think the SCRs have a pretty low on resistance?
> _______
> Pack+__|B+ M+|_____________________
> | | | _|_
> | | _|_ / \ motor 1
> | |SCR _\_/_ diode \___/
> | Zilla | / |_____|/|______|
> | | _|_ |\| |
> | | / \ _|_
> | | \___/ motor 2 _\_/_ SCR
> Pack-__|B- M-|______|______________| \
> |_______|
Yes; electrically, I think this would work. SCRs are basically diodes;
they have a roughly 1.5v on-state drop regardless of current. The diode
is a bit less; about a 1v drop regardless of current.
The main challenge is that the SCRs and diode will produce a lot of heat
at 1000 motor amps. In series, it's 1000a x 1v = 1000 watts in the
diode. In parallel, it's 2 x (500a x 1.5v) = 1500 watts in the SCRs.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The GM vacuum pump that I got from a junk yard is starting to go out.
When I start the car (turn the car on) it does not always power up right
away. Today it took about 10 mins before I had a vacuum.
I have never been happy with the pump. It was good for the price I paid
but it is embarrassing having to explain to everyone what the horrendous
noise is on an otherwise quite ride.
I am looking for other options. Surly with all the hybrids on the road
someone out there has already tried one in an EV?
Brian
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--- Begin Message ---
What could I use to substitute for a 3 phase motor, to test my boards
with? It needs to be low amps and small in size.
The 3 phase output needs to be tested but I am trying to avoid
something large so it doesn't kill my dwindling bench space for my test
fixture.
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
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You don't get it Roger..
That bike does not have the setup to do 214 at tops speed.
I never said 214 in the quater..
What we are poking fun at is it looks like a barley warmed over Sub 500 CC
street bike with outlandish claims, and no proof.
This kind of thing ruins the real claims that real Ev street bike actually
can do.
Some how the front brakes look like toys... compared to some real 1 liter
150 mph rice rockets I have actually seen.
The simple warning is ... I bet the specs are not real.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > OOOo! not only does a bike that looks like it has pedal bike
> > chain on it have 214 mph limits..
>
> It looks like standard motorcycle chain to me...
>
> > it has whimpy brakes...
>
> Really? Twin 308mm front discs and a 220mm rear are right up there
> performance wise. The fastest produciotn motorcycle (Suzuki Hayabusa)
> has twin 320s up front and a 240 in the rear. Something more mundane
> like the Zx6R[R] Ninjas have twin 300s up front and a single 220 in the
> rear.
>
> > Like Rod says.. it's a lot easier to write add copy that to
> > actually get records and time slips the hard way..
>
> First of all, they never said the bike would do 214mph in the 1/4 mile.
> The world speed record may stand at 134-odd mph, yet the Killacycle has
> exceeded 150mph in the 1/4mi.
>
> Second of all, notice the $90k price tag for this puppy! If they were
> making these claims for a $10k bike I would be very skeptical, but at
> $90K I am far more willing to believe that they can afford the sort of
> technology that might approach these sorts of performance claims. They
> may still be way off on their performance claims (who knows if they've
> actually built and tested a bike yet), but throwing that sort of money
> at the problem I have little doubt they can provide a ride that will at
> least achieve the same 150mph-ish top speeds as the (much less
> expensive) Killacycle, though perhaps not in the 1/4 mile.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Valence
Badicheck
Toyta
Honda
Ford
Lee Hart Batbalencer
Manzanita Micro Reg centered charging
ETC...
There are a bout 3 to 6 of us here on the list that have some form of BMS
from a stack of regs to full data collecetion and charger/controller
interfaces.
Yea What is a BMS in your mind and what CAN preform as a adequate BMS are
two totally differnt things.
To have you brush your hands over a LOT of effort from a LOT of skilled
folks is a insult.
What do you have??? and what is the state of control and reporting that make
a "Real BMS" in your mind?
There's not much I don't know about every battery while I charge my Fiero
with Mk3 Regs. I don't dare charge the car without the BMS hooked up and
working.. there is that much
data and control. Some how I cut the link to the front 9 batteries
yesterday.. and I have to climb under the car and find the open. Great
sport...
I know I have a BMS ,I keep having to find out what ripped it out of the
EV.. I am thinking about armored data cable runs....
A few more Tye Wraps might help also....
Are volts real time, hi setpoint, low setpoint, Status, heatsink temp,
battery temp, Max V since last charge, Min V since last charge, Good enough
data points?
The stat byte tells if over temp, over temp real time, dissapation channel
active, or enabled? So.. Yea I can data log and dissapate power, and I can
control the charge and or controller with my BMS.
What else am I missing???
The couple megs of GUI code that would let the unwashed masses play with it
on thier Palm or PC while doing E-mail???
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
Yea I have a BMS...
And a few more good ideas....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: Taurus EV
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > Funny I know of about 1/2 dozzen...
>
> You must have much different BMS expectations than I do then. ;^>
>
> If you know of at least 6 BMS systems suitable for on-road EVs that are
> ready and available for commercial/retail purchase, how about naming
> them?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes that is correct.
Or bring enough adapter cables to get into the 175 blue Andersons.
I sure wish I had speced SB 120 s The 175s have the highest insertion forces
of all the SBconnectors.
Pinched fingers and blood blister are the norm if you are not carfull.
The SB 120s click in and out like Butter.
I have 44 PFC50s out there..so the defactor standard is the 175s. Oh
Well ya live and ya learn.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >Bring it, I will charge it.
> >
> >Wire your charge port so I can stuff 12000 watts of what ever you need
into
> >your car.
> >
> >
>
> Might be wise to specify a style of connector. I think blue anderson
> 175 is currently your connector of choice?
>
> Mark
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> That bike does not have the setup to do 214 at tops speed.
> I never said 214 in the quater..
No, but you alluded to performance claims requiring time slips backing
them up before they can be taken seriously. Time slips around here tend
to mean a run down the drag strip.
What sort of setup do you think is missing to hit 214MPH? I've done
150+ riding two up on a Suzuki GS1150 with inferior brakes and similar
chain drive - the two items you chose to comment on.
> What we are poking fun at is it looks like a barley warmed
> over Sub 500 CC street bike with outlandish claims, and no
> proof.
I agree that is looks more like a 1/2 litre bike than 1L+ superbike, and
that the claims may be exaggerated, however, with a $90K pricetag I
maintain that they can afford to throw the sort of technology at this
that you and most other EV racers can only dream about. You'd be amazed
at how much more performance you could get out of Goldie if you had,
say, $80K more to invest in her than you've got in her to date.
> Some how the front brakes look like toys... compared to some
> real 1 liter 150 mph rice rockets I have actually seen.
Others have suggested that the images are mockups, not photos of a real
product; read the specs, they describe components that, as Paul Compton
notes, are if not state of the art, are within spitting distance of it.
> The simple warning is ... I bet the specs are not real.
I certainly wouldn't bet against you on that ;^>
But I would bet that if they build one of these, it will come closer to
their predictions than you think.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> I sure wish I had speced SB 120 s The 175s have the highest
> insertion forces of all the SBconnectors.
Hey, Rich, it could be worse; the SBX175 insertion force makes the SB175
seem like butter in comparison. I use SB175s between my battery packs
and my automated test setup, and SBX175s between the setup and the
dynamic loads (I need the SBX's extra pilot contacts to allow the data
acquisition unit to automatically shut the loads off at end of
discharge). You can't mate/unmate an SBX175 directly, but rather have
to "walk" it in/out of position by wiggling it side to side.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
> What could I use to substitute for a 3 phase motor, to test my
> boards with? It needs to be low amps and small in size.
3-phase motors are available in all sizes, from huge to tiny. Aircraft
in particular use lots of very small ones.
Another possibility is a motor equivalent circuit. An induction motor
looks like a resistor and inductor in series. The resistor is the
winding resistance and mechanical load on the shaft. The inductor is
from the winding inductance (combined rotor and stator). A 3-phase
version would consist of 3 resistors and 3 inductors, wired in either
delta or wye (same as for a real motor).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
