EV Digest 5626
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Wikipedia EV conversion
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Hosing down batteries
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Contactor
by Richard Marcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)Comments.
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) 400vdc badboy
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Hacked Old Mail Truck
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Wid Re: DC Motor torque calculations, choosing accessory motor
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) White Zombie hammering
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: White Zombie hammering
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) sick PMC-25
by Roger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: White Zombie hammering
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 2)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey All
Well nothing like inviting a bull into a china shop, ROD!
Here's the scoop
I was contacted by Jay of GoWheels (who was refered to me by another list
member) about doing some motor upgrades for these bikes recently. As someone
who does his homework (at least trys) I wanted to get some outside input and
thoughts. Having been blessed enough to have plopped into this new world via
Wayland, I've worked hard to earn my own merit, but I'm also the first to admit
that I don't know EVery damn thing either 8^ o
Being I'm close to a gaggle of EV race legends it's nice to pick their heads
and bounce stuff off them. Even on some black projects I like to get feedback,
it's because I want to do all I can to meet a projects goal, and because I
respect the insight.
Well today was a real EV day, as I talked with 4 EV'ers, those being Rod, Jay
Donnaway, Matt Graham, and FT. Being Rod had called me (more on that in
another post) I asked him to have a look at the Gowheels site and let me know
what he thought? I come home to this thread, lmao. Hey Rod, Paul Rever only
needed 2 lights to report the British were coming okay, lmao 8^ P Now I doubt
any secrets were revieled (I mean he has a web site up) but I'm thinking you're
outside the secret of trust thingy for a bit Rod, LMAO!!!!
After Rod, Jay Donnaway called whining that I didn't include the wiring
diagram for the Gamera 9 which a quick fax seemed to stop that is until he
discovered I called 2 studs the same number, hehehe, Opp's. I still have to
load the pics but Jay has posted some up at his site of his Gamera9, I cant
wait to get the ride that's been promised 8^ )
I had to call Matt after that to make sure he still liked me after I razzed
him last week and to see what the east coast boys were up to. We got to talk
about WZ's last run, I then had to listen to razzing like "if the Siamese 8's
Soooo awesome how come John still has vibration, that kind of stuff, always a
treat talking with Matt. While talking with Matt, FT called.
I called FT back and caught up with him but also talked about the Gowheels
site (seemed Rod's been busy!, lmao harder). Well FT told me he called
Gowheels up and talked with Jay. FT seemed at least semi-impressed and stated
that they already build high end gas bikes through another division. I didn't
get all the poop from FT, as he's been busier than a 2 peckered goat in a field
of nannies and had to keep things short 8^ o
I actually invited Jay from Gowheels to sign up at the list here (as I do to
any who are not) for the insight I believe this group could add. Hey Jay if
you happen to be lurking, sorry if any "cat" has been let out of the bag.
Being that the cat has been let out of the bag so to speak, it seems there
are already different camps as to what the performance of this might actually
be.
Anyway, my bad, thought Rod could be trusted to be ... (stop laughing Rich!)
Cya all
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cliff wrote:
"Does the system allow you to set the temperature
warning level?"
No it is fixed to drive an early warning light at 60C
and request disconnect or directly disconnect a
contactor at 65C.
Thanks for the tip on fans. I will look at my temp
data and see if I have any issues and either address
them or rotate them with the tires.
"Would you be able to see which module is having high
temperature problems to tune your cooling?"
Yes, there are status LEDs on the modules. I can also
query the BMS via CANBus.
"Kokam's pass the impact test, nail penetration test,
over heating test, crush test, over charging test"
Also progress since my last check -- good news.
"How much current can they shunt?"
Don't know -- enough I hope. Hopefully they are
pretty uniform. I will log data and review it.
"Will you have to do any programming or is it pretty
much 'plug and play'?"
Supposedly the BMS and charger will plug and play,
after repgrogramming the charger to go in to CAN mode
vs. automatic as I ordered it.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good heavens Mike, don't be horrified, fix the page!
That's the way that Wikipedia was conceived, and what Rod was asking
people to do.
You don't even have to fix the whole thing, just make some minor
improvements, hopefully others will do the same.
Mike Ellis wrote:
I visited the page and was somewhat horrified to discover that the
first type of conversion listed was "Novelty." Novelty also had the
biggest and the most pictures.
Next was bikes with a picture.
No pics at all for actual cars and trucks.
We can sign up and edit the page. I'd do it but I think maybe someone
with more EV cred would be a good idea.
-Mike
On 7/4/06, Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Had some extra time today so I spent some time at
wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion
It seems that almost all of the categories have very
little information and links. I just thought the list
could contribute our collective knowlege to make this
a better resourse for those looking into EV's.
Rod
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) h:(905)279-5885 c:(416)892-5885
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps, if you connected the hose to your neg terminal and held the
positive, you might feel something. Unless you plan on filling your battery
boxes full of water, you aren't going to complete a circuit. If you are
*really* concerned, turn it on spray. There will be *lots* of air space
between the terminals.
As for your body, there is still lots of insulating materials between you
and the car's batts, even if it could make a serious connection. You haven't
gotten a shock when you've taken your ICE to the 2-bit car wash, right?
(Granted, it's only 12V, but you are holding a metal wand... and a 12V batt
can still take a chunk our of a wrench dropped across the terminals.) As Lee
stated earlier, water is a very poor conductor. Any short (if there were
one) would still go between the posts... not through the water stream,
through the rubber hose, down through your body, through the tires and frame
of the vehicle, and back to the other terminal of the batt.
Hosing down your batts before servicing can save a lot of clothes. When
servicing the batts in my EV, I kept a bottle of dilute baking soda around
and wore rubber gloves. There's far more danger from the acid residue than
from the chance of shock. (Use care to not splash on your body when washing,
and ignore it if your nose itches, while servicing batts... due to corrosive
residue.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Hosing down batteries
> > However, the only way I'd do this with a high voltage pack (anything
> > over 120v) is if I split the pack into several unconnected groups, each
> > below 48v or so.
>
> Hm. How safe/dangerous is 75 volts? I have rigged my Prizm using a 3
> phase switch as the disconnect and it bisects the pack into two with one
> set, and divides each side into two regions with the other. Thus the max
> voltage I can be nailed with is 75.
>
> Is this safe or still dangerous enough to get me killed?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim, Why were they talking to you about their AC drives. Their site says
246 bhp at 12,500 rpm. We ALL know this is only possible with AC. I have had
a few DCs at 12,500 rpms and they are hard to disassemble. In fact I still
have one somewhere from Firebird Raceway in Phoenix, Arizona that exploded
on the straight stretch. When the windings fly out of the armature at that
rpm they entangle themselves in the fields so completely it is like ancient
roots around stones and logs. I have used very big hammers and chisels. They
just don't come apart. This is much different that a quick 20,000 rpm com
explosion from a missed shift. In this situation the com bars come out
rather quickly and all twisted and land all over the pavement This happens
in a fraction of a second. Hey Jim, I apologize if I was not supposed to see
what was on a web site. I hope I didn't get you in trouble with the AC boys.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
Hey All
Well nothing like inviting a bull into a china shop, ROD!
Here's the scoop
I was contacted by Jay of GoWheels (who was refered to me by another list
member) about doing some motor upgrades for these bikes recently. As
someone who does his homework (at least trys) I wanted to get some outside
input and thoughts. Having been blessed enough to have plopped into this
new world via Wayland, I've worked hard to earn my own merit, but I'm also
the first to admit that I don't know EVery damn thing either 8^ o
Being I'm close to a gaggle of EV race legends it's nice to pick their
heads and bounce stuff off them. Even on some black projects I like to
get feedback, it's because I want to do all I can to meet a projects goal,
and because I respect the insight.
Well today was a real EV day, as I talked with 4 EV'ers, those being Rod,
Jay Donnaway, Matt Graham, and FT. Being Rod had called me (more on that
in another post) I asked him to have a look at the Gowheels site and let
me know what he thought? I come home to this thread, lmao. Hey Rod, Paul
Rever only needed 2 lights to report the British were coming okay, lmao
8^ P Now I doubt any secrets were revieled (I mean he has a web site up)
but I'm thinking you're outside the secret of trust thingy for a bit Rod,
LMAO!!!!
After Rod, Jay Donnaway called whining that I didn't include the wiring
diagram for the Gamera 9 which a quick fax seemed to stop that is until he
discovered I called 2 studs the same number, hehehe, Opp's. I still have
to load the pics but Jay has posted some up at his site of his Gamera9, I
cant wait to get the ride that's been promised 8^ )
I had to call Matt after that to make sure he still liked me after I
razzed him last week and to see what the east coast boys were up to. We
got to talk about WZ's last run, I then had to listen to razzing like "if
the Siamese 8's Soooo awesome how come John still has vibration, that kind
of stuff, always a treat talking with Matt. While talking with Matt, FT
called.
I called FT back and caught up with him but also talked about the
Gowheels site (seemed Rod's been busy!, lmao harder). Well FT told me he
called Gowheels up and talked with Jay. FT seemed at least semi-impressed
and stated that they already build high end gas bikes through another
division. I didn't get all the poop from FT, as he's been busier than a 2
peckered goat in a field of nannies and had to keep things short 8^ o
I actually invited Jay from Gowheels to sign up at the list here (as I do
to any who are not) for the insight I believe this group could add. Hey
Jay if you happen to be lurking, sorry if any "cat" has been let out of
the bag.
Being that the cat has been let out of the bag so to speak, it seems
there are already different camps as to what the performance of this might
actually be.
Anyway, my bad, thought Rod could be trusted to be ... (stop laughing
Rich!)
Cya all
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have an idea of a test?
Here the issue: 72v running a split pack of 6 volts (relatively new pack). I
recently had the controller (Curtis 1221b) rebuilt and upgraded by Logisystems.
It was fried, but just reinstalling the controller didn't resolve the issue.
There is full voltage from the pot/KSI when a load is put on. Zip from the B+
of the controller. It seems something is up with the contactor. I haven't
played with the contactor until now. 12 volts goes in which is enough for the
magnet to pull. However, the design of the contactor appears to need a "push"
to snap the contacts together. Is that possible? if so, how could the
magnetic field be opposite? As a test tried bypassing the contactor; like this
there is full voltage at the B+... but also at the B- (even without a load put
on -- should that happen?). Any thoughts?
thanks
Richard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I blew up the SVRs because the interconnects let go before I
could load them to half voltage (and get the theoretical maximum
power.) The theory wasn't wrong. The interconnects just wouldn't take
the duty cycle. Indeed, the only way to find this sort of "weak link"
is to do the test. This is not the problem John has, however.
I should add that the limitations of the diffusion rate of
the battery reactants can move the peak power point a bit away from
the simplistic theoretical 1/2 open-circuit voltage point. In a
battery designed for high-power, however, it doesn't move very far
from the point predicted by the Thevenin theory. You may have to draw
just a touch harder, perhaps to 6.0 volts, but certainly not to 5.5 volts.
By the way, my series-parallel contactors are in the spare parts bin,
not on the bike. :-)
O-ring chain does the trick. Lasts many runs. Backlash in the chain
is not the problem. Whipping off the lubricant is the problem. O-ring
chains keep the lube in place.
Twin controllers would probably make John's car go faster.
(It would certainly make Otmar smile.)
Bill Dube'
At 11:53 AM 7/6/2006, you wrote:
Yea but the Battery itself has a power peak, and it's not always 1/2 the
open circuit voltage.
That's why we do battery blast tests, to find this spot..
As you recall Bill you dropped your SVR pack below the point that we had
found.
As as you now predict.. you get less power and blew up batteries.
The Thevenin Theorm is applicable to the controller design and it's
operation. The controller allows for power in a range that can be used.
That's why we don't contactor drive series wound motors with 100C rated
Lions... or even 20 C AGM now days.
Wayland is asking more from his batteries than they can make. In his mind he
needs more power.
I grant that in the simple world of going faster..he could use more But..
and this is the Big Butt right now.
He is launching with the front tires in the air, and slamming the car
sideways with the Series parallel transfer. Any more real power gains are
going to come with a hefty cost.
He is breaking his drive train with the torque slam on the start and at s/P.
Most racers ...ie ICE driven racers can load the drive train until the Green
light.. John can't because he has to bump up to the lights, and then the
back lash is still loose when he launches...
Otmar's Curse/Blessing at the s/P change over is just too brutal. At the
power levels and RPM that Wayland is making.. he's totally unloading the
diffy for 500 msec then going back to full amps in like 50 Ms. This is like
using a 100 lbs Sledge hammer with a 2000 lbs strong arm on the gear faces
and bearings. This happens on Every run at the same point.
We have to find a better way of changing over the contactors.
And Yes Bill you need to do so with your motor drive setup also. You are
loosing 500 Milliseconds... That's rather large in your world and you are
really stressing your drive chain doing this.
Somebody else had this problem about 15 years ago... and welded chain on
every other run. Much effort has been expended to totally reduce drive train
back lash...
You and Wayland now have the same issues to solve...
Series parallel lets two kinda stock motors.. Hey they have the same field
windings and air gaps and same molded comms... Stock is stock! Behave much
better than a single stock motor.
But... it comes at a cost of contactors and therefore you can't run them
continuously from one end of the track to the other...without twin
controllers.
I think I can do better runs by using the manual s/P switch and a little
practice. The one of the big points in John's case is to allow for manual
power control AFTER the s/P event, this may allow him to climb back on the
power without or with minimal traction losses, and may let him drive through
the "Shake and Bake" vibration problem.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
> I'll confirm that as you go faster, it gets harder and
> harder to carve away any more. Each additional tenth is a lot harder.
> (I used to race all by myself, now it takes a whole team!)
>
> I noticed you mentioned that you were sagging your batteries
> to as low as 5.5 volts. You should set your Zilla to never take the
> pack below 1/2 the open-circuit voltage of the pack. Drawing more
> amperage, but sagging the batteries below 6.3 volts each results in
> less HP, not more. It puts you on the "backside" of the power curve.
> Strange, but true. :^)
>
> I'd suggest that you set the minimum pack voltage to 189
> volts on your Zilla and you should get more HP and lower ETs.
>
> >>> Theory (for those that might be interested) <<
>
> Based on Thevenin's theorem.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thevenin's_theorem
>
> The load resistance must equal the Thevenin resistance of
> the source for maximum power transfer. When this is true, the load
> voltage equals 1/2 of the open-circuit voltage of the source.
>
> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_10/11.html
>
> See, I don't just make this stuff up. ;^)
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 08:02 AM 7/5/2006, you wrote:
> ><big snip>
> >
> >(2) Strong as they are, I'm close to extracting the max possible
> >power from the battery pack. According to the graphs Mark Farver
> >made off Zilla info, at the beginning of a run, each 12V battery
> >falls to about 8.2V at 1000 amps giving about 246 kw (330 hp) of
> >initial power. Near the end of the 12 second run, each battery has
> >fallen as low as 5.5V with the pack making just 165 kw of power (221 hp).
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
Racing is an expensive hobby!
My favorite quote, "The way to make a small fortune in
racing is to start out with a large fortune."
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took a 28v multitap transformer and experimented by connecting a
variac to the secondary and using the primary side as the output to
feed a rectifier/filter module. At less than 1/2 an amp draw from the
120vac, the output is 400vdc. Sweet. The Dolphin boards I'm debugging
need something to simulate the 312v nominal pack voltage. Plus it had
to be adjustable. Just need to get a box to put it all into now.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can relate, Roderick. One of the annoyances of owning my car was the
gawkers or those who thought they could tear it up. (Trying to tip it over
or bending parts of the body/windows.) The other part was the 4x4's or
hot-rods, who'd pass and cut directly in front of me, to slow down again. I
had one hot-rod that pulled in front and shot (pitiful) flames out his
exhaust at me.
It'd be fun to pass them, then leave them in a cloud of tire smoke. (The
cops would enjoy this also, I am sure.) Still, it's a nice fantasy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Hacked Old Mail Truck
> Lee, I have often fantasized about a hot rod City Car being the ultimate
> sleeper on the street. Any Vette blown away by one would have a hard time
> living it down. Of course it would have the words "Electric Car" very big
on
> the sides, the front and the rear. You would have room enough to run a
high
> voltage string of Hawker 16 amp/hr batteries. You could get a narrowed 9"
> Ford from a Taylor Dunn golf cart. These are so narrow they would allow
for
> a tubbed type rear with the rear tires almost touching each other on the
> inner sides of the tires. Since it is so light you would not need a
> transmission. Hey Lee, when are we going to get started on yours :-)
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I can't speak for the technical issues (other than to raise my eyebrows
at the claims) but I can say this: if you google their phone number you get
over a half-dozen different organizations, all at the same address - website
design, race horses (ooh! "Hot Equestrians!), something about art and world
peace, non-profits, "charitable trusts", etc. Generally not the sign of a
solid business. No evidence of ever having actually created anything which,
uh, actually runs. Also, the various "corporate" identities listed - Timotca,
GoWheels, etc. - don't show up on the databases kept by the California or
Nevada state governments. Then there's the matter of the $2,877 wheels they're
selling which are so good because they're made of "Barotex and titanium". I'll
leave that to the metallurgists among you. But my general suspicion is, well -
I wouldn't invest too much time with these guys without actually seeing
something in person that made sense.
Oh - and the blue bike on the website is an obvious and very clumsy fake,
which actually does appear to have used a picture of a bicycle as its base -
although it's hard to tell because the chain sort of disappears after it goes
behind the frame!
Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Jim, Why were they talking to you about their AC drives. Their site says
246 bhp at 12,500 rpm. We ALL know this is only possible with AC. I have had
a few DCs at 12,500 rpms and they are hard to disassemble. In fact I still
have one somewhere from Firebird Raceway in Phoenix, Arizona that exploded
on the straight stretch. When the windings fly out of the armature at that
rpm they entangle themselves in the fields so completely it is like ancient
roots around stones and logs. I have used very big hammers and chisels. They
just don't come apart. This is much different that a quick 20,000 rpm com
explosion from a missed shift. In this situation the com bars come out
rather quickly and all twisted and land all over the pavement This happens
in a fraction of a second. Hey Jim, I apologize if I was not supposed to see
what was on a web site. I hope I didn't get you in trouble with the AC boys.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> Hey All
>
> Well nothing like inviting a bull into a china shop, ROD!
> Here's the scoop
> I was contacted by Jay of GoWheels (who was refered to me by another list
> member) about doing some motor upgrades for these bikes recently. As
> someone who does his homework (at least trys) I wanted to get some outside
> input and thoughts. Having been blessed enough to have plopped into this
> new world via Wayland, I've worked hard to earn my own merit, but I'm also
> the first to admit that I don't know EVery damn thing either 8^ o
>
> Being I'm close to a gaggle of EV race legends it's nice to pick their
> heads and bounce stuff off them. Even on some black projects I like to
> get feedback, it's because I want to do all I can to meet a projects goal,
> and because I respect the insight.
>
> Well today was a real EV day, as I talked with 4 EV'ers, those being Rod,
> Jay Donnaway, Matt Graham, and FT. Being Rod had called me (more on that
> in another post) I asked him to have a look at the Gowheels site and let
> me know what he thought? I come home to this thread, lmao. Hey Rod, Paul
> Rever only needed 2 lights to report the British were coming okay, lmao
> 8^ P Now I doubt any secrets were revieled (I mean he has a web site up)
> but I'm thinking you're outside the secret of trust thingy for a bit Rod,
> LMAO!!!!
>
> After Rod, Jay Donnaway called whining that I didn't include the wiring
> diagram for the Gamera 9 which a quick fax seemed to stop that is until he
> discovered I called 2 studs the same number, hehehe, Opp's. I still have
> to load the pics but Jay has posted some up at his site of his Gamera9, I
> cant wait to get the ride that's been promised 8^ )
>
> I had to call Matt after that to make sure he still liked me after I
> razzed him last week and to see what the east coast boys were up to. We
> got to talk about WZ's last run, I then had to listen to razzing like "if
> the Siamese 8's Soooo awesome how come John still has vibration, that kind
> of stuff, always a treat talking with Matt. While talking with Matt, FT
> called.
>
> I called FT back and caught up with him but also talked about the
> Gowheels site (seemed Rod's been busy!, lmao harder). Well FT told me he
> called Gowheels up and talked with Jay. FT seemed at least semi-impressed
> and stated that they already build high end gas bikes through another
> division. I didn't get all the poop from FT, as he's been busier than a 2
> peckered goat in a field of nannies and had to keep things short 8^ o
> I actually invited Jay from Gowheels to sign up at the list here (as I do
> to any who are not) for the insight I believe this group could add. Hey
> Jay if you happen to be lurking, sorry if any "cat" has been let out of
> the bag.
> Being that the cat has been let out of the bag so to speak, it seems
> there are already different camps as to what the performance of this might
> actually be.
> Anyway, my bad, thought Rod could be trusted to be ... (stop laughing
> Rich!)
> Cya all
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
>
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Since Air conditioning and power steering are different types of loads,
perhaps we could somehow detect when power steering is needed and then
just release the AC clutch when the power steering pump is on. Some of
the newer pumps have a bypass and it can freewheel. A Variation in this
could turn the motor one direction for Power steering and turn the other
way for AC, a simple one way lets the power steering pump stop and the
typical AC clutch is wired tot he reversing contactor.
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Remembering the SCR bypass. Would a variation of that and the retactor
circuit keep the motors loaded thru the shift from serial to parallel.
B+ -------------------zilla-----------------
| |
\ / motor
--- 1
|-----||----| |
motor bubba |
2 \ /
| -----
B- -----zilla----|___________|
Give up some on the parallel end but only 1 contactor in the paralell
mode. Breaking thos amps would suck, but I think there is a way around
that, Lee?
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Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Remembering the SCR bypass. Would a variation of that and the retactor
> circuit keep the motors loaded thru the shift from serial to parallel?
_______
Pack+__|B+ M+|_____________________
| | _|_ diode _|_
| | _\_/_ / \ motor
| | | Bubba \___/ 1
| Zilla | |______||______|
| | _|_ || |
| | / \ motor _|_
| | \___/ 2 _\_/_ diode
Pack-__|B- M-|______|______________|
|_______|
Yes, this would basically work. It requires some very big diodes, able
to carry the full Zilla motor current. I still wouldn't want to switch
that Bubba contactor while motor current was flowing, though -- it could
produce some nasty transients for the Zilla.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I have a Jet Industries Ford Courier
with a PMC-25 going into a GE motor.
I checked the motor brushes as suggested before. They look fine
( about 1" long, with nice smooth curved surfaces)
It worked fine for several years, then about a month ago I couldn't
get more than 180ish amps out of it.
then 2 weeks ago I couldn't get more than 80ish amps.
I searched the web, found an old article regarding bad power resistors.
I carefully opened the PMC-25, saw two very over-heated looking
5watt power resistors and replaced them.
Sadly, there is no change. in the cool of the morning I can get
80 amps. then at lunchtime (when it is 80 outside), 20-30 amps
as I try to go up a short hill.
Any suggestions? Anyone have a schematic for this WAY old controller
(No, Curtis does NOT have the drawings anymore. Nor will Flight
Systems venture to repair it. Very scary to send in a photo and hear
them speaking at the other end of the phone; "You ever see one of these?
Nope, me either.")
thanks
jolly roger
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Am I missing something here? if you ever closed "bubba" you would have a
direct short between M+ and M- via D1 and D2. Or is that what you wanted??
Confused,
Wire
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: White Zombie hammering
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 23:53:51 -0500
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Remembering the SCR bypass. Would a variation of that and the retactor
> circuit keep the motors loaded thru the shift from serial to parallel?
_______
Pack+__|B+ M+|_____________________
| | _|_ diode _|_
| | _\_/_ / \ motor
| | | Bubba \___/ 1
| Zilla | |______||______|
| | _|_ || |
| | / \ motor _|_
| | \___/ 2 _\_/_ diode
Pack-__|B- M-|______|______________|
|_______|
Yes, this would basically work. It requires some very big diodes, able
to carry the full Zilla motor current. I still wouldn't want to switch
that Bubba contactor while motor current was flowing, though -- it could
produce some nasty transients for the Zilla.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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Hello to All,
From Matt Graham:
Now I hope you feel very proud of yourself for teasing us all with "Part 1"
and no "Part 2" and references to spectacular video but no gratifying
updates to http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/videos.php. You've had your fun.
More, please.
OK, as requested....
I had left off here:
>Of course, it felt great knowing the camera crew had already got what
they came for....filming an electric car take on and beat muscle >cars.
The first recharge was from generator power, so it was noisy and it took
about 20 minutes. After the charge was complete and with the noise from
the generator silenced, it was time for some great interviews with the
film crew. I was totally impressed when 'Pixel' started into his 'on
camera' dialog as he perfectly explained all things about White
Zombie...no mistakes and I didn't have to make any corrections. He had
been to the Plasma Boy web page and had studied everything, then
memorized it all! After the photo session in the pit area was completed,
out to the staging lanes they went. So did I in White Zombie.
As has happened before, because of the mid-to-low 12s the car runs, I
was immediately bumped out of lane 4 over into the pro stock lane
3...argghh...trailered-in cars all tubbed, stuffed with 31 inch wrinkle
walls, equipped with wheelie bars and a parachute, and running from 10’s
to high 11’s. This caused me concern, as the idea was to show an
electric street car ‘beating’ gas cars at the drag strip...not an
electric car ‘getting beat’ by gas cars :-(
At 7:10 pm I found myself getting ready to run with a white pro stock
Mustang, probably kicking out in excess of 650 hp. The crowd was into
it, too. Here’s this fully beefed out fully tubbed Mustang with monster
wrinkle walls, a chute, and wheelie bars, and here’s my lean little
electric Datsun econobox next to it, both of us in the burnout pits. He
does a heavy duty smoke show, I do an ‘OK’ one. The tires didn’t ignite
the way they usually do, and instead, they just spun lazily enough that
the car was shoved forward (should have never let ‘someone’ change my
Zilla’s valet settings). The tires need to be spun up quickly and need
to be kept spinning fast to avoid the way the car acted. Oh well...what
can I say? It was a wimpy but ‘OK’ burnout.
With cameras rolling, the tree sent us on our way. To my and I bet the
crowd’s surprise as well, the Zombie hung pretty well with the Mustang
and at the 60 ft. mark we were neck and neck. The Mustang had a better
60 ft. time of 1.577 to my 1.671, but I got a bit of a head start with a
.017 to his .109...not too bad a reaction time for having been out of
the cockpit for a year! With my jump due to my reaction time, by the
time were at the 60 ft. mark, as I said, we were neck and neck. The pro
stock stang was ahead of me by .5 seconds in the 1/8th mile, but from
the vantage point of everyone in the stands, it must have looked a lot
closer than it was. Just as I was thinking I was holding my own at
around 100 mph against a faster car, the high rpm vibration (mentioned
in pt. 1) came on strong and it felt as if all acceleration simply
halted....then, maybe two seconds later, as I see the stang pulling
away, the vibration went away and acceleration resumed, but alas, it
returned too late and I was crossing the finish line a second later :-(
In the end, the Mustang ripped off an easy 11.213 ET to my 12.350 ET,
and of course, he was clicking along at 119.09 mph while I was only
going 104.73 mph. Again, it’s all captured on camera by pros, so it
should look pretty cool to see an electric car hang’n with a pro stock
Mustang! For me, it was pretty exciting to have turned a 12.3 at 104+
mph on the second run of the night...on the other hand, with the
vibration thing returning to plague me, was this really going to be the
night we’d hit the 11s, or would the car hit another performance wall?
Back in the pits, Rudman had left to go get a 60 amp dual breaker so he
could safely tap into the AC mains, so it was generator time again.
During and and after charging, with both a hot street electric and a hot
electric bike to check out, we were inundated by racing fans absolutely
blown away by electric powered machines...how cool is this?
At 8:05 PM, I was back in lane 3 wondering what I was going to be up
against next, and at the same time, hoping that a low 12 or maybe even
an elusive high 11 second run was awaiting me. In the staging lanes,
White Zombie was a focal point. The film crew was on hand there, too. I
hope they got reactions from fans and other drivers. To be honest, I
can’t remember what kind of car I ran against on this, the third run of
the night. Marko had difficulties running my video cam, so the only race
I’ve got here at home on video, is the race between White Zombie and a
strong running 12 second Subaru WRX. Anyway, suffice it to say it was
some kind of muscle car from lane 3, and, that it luckily for me, it
wasn’t running up to snuff. In the burnout pit I hit it hard, then
suddenly realized I had forgotten to switch-on the valet mode and was
proceeding to do a full powered burn (like Tim did at Woodburn ‘05 where
the car shifted into parallel and did its famous arcy-sparky bit)...I
immediately got out of it, so again, a wimpy burnout and tires not so
sticky. This was proven with the worst 60 ft. of the night at just 1.86
and the car’s slowest ET of the night. Still, in spite of a bad launch
and the high speed vibration, White Zombie posted a respectable 12.647 @
103.96 mph vs the muscle car at 13.285 @ 104.76 mph. Another win for the
electric...again, all caught professionally on camera! It’s fun to be
able to say that a 12.6 was the car’s slowest run of the night :-)
Back in the pits, a surprise awaited me. Rudman had us wired! No stink’n
generator. Re-charge time for the car was 7 minutes!!! Again, lots of
excitement over the bike and the car, more interviews, and more fun than
any EVer should be allowed to have :-) During recharge, the plug-in Todd
DC-DC we had been using to keep the little 12V under hood battery juiced
up, threw a few sparks and suddenly let its smoke out, so no more
freshening up the 12V system's battery :-( This would come back to bite
me in the ass later. Why the Todd, and not the nifty new high voltage
DC-DC Chris Brune had made for me?
From Chris Brune:
Well hopefully the DC/DC worked as well as looked. ;-)
Easy answer...between long work days, traveling, and family matters that
took up lots of time after work, I simply ran out of time to get the
install completed. Yes, it was mounted in the car, but the wiring did
not get completed in time :-(
At 8:50 I caught a break when one of the pro stock cars was not ready
and they instead, pitted the aforementioned hot Sube against the
electric car. I had seen this silver Sube turboed four run, and it was
formidable, easily running in the 12s. I got a better burnout this time
and thus, got the tires heated better. Cameras rolling....White Zombie
got a 1.67 60 ft. time, the Sube a not-so-great 2.048....White Zombie a
7.749 1/8th mile, the Sube an 8.144 1/8th mile....and finally, White
Zombie’s ET of 12.397 @ 103.75 mph vs the Sube’s of 12.625 @ 109.05 mph.
Man, I LOVE beating gas cars!
Another 7 minute re-charge and fully heated batteries, and the car was
ready to run again. Hopes were diminishing about seeing an 11 second
run, though, as 12.3 seemed to be ‘the wall’ on this night :-( The rear
end was getting noisier, too. I was getting a little bummed and for all
who’d come to see the runs, I felt I was letting them down :-(
The last race of the night, was against another pro stock car, and
again, I can’t remember what type it was. At 9:33 we were in the burnout
pits. Steve Kiser came onto the track, stood in front of the car, and
hand-guided me to just the right spot, then I hit it. This time, it was
a good burnout as I watched Steve to signal me to release the line lock.
He gave the go-ahead wave, I released the line lock, and kept the hammer
down as White Zombie scorched out of the water box still churning the
rear meats. Hopefully, it looks as good on video as it felt in the car!
On launch the car pulled an identical 1.67 60 ft. time to the previous
run, ran a 7.732 1/8th mile, and netted another 12.3 run, precisely, a
12.350 @ 104.73 mph. Yeah, I got beat with the other guy running an
11.513 @ 115.62 mph, but again, from the stands the race probably looked
pretty close as White Zombie hangs in there for the 1/8th mile portion
against these more powerful cars. It’s fun to compare the car’s last
runs of the night, to see the consistency:
4th run 1.67 60 ft., 7.749 1/8th mile, 12.397 @ 103.75 mph
5th run 1.67 60 ft., 7.732 1/8th mile, 12.350 @ 104.73 mph
This last run is where the batteries gassed a bit, lightly fogged the
Lexan inside pack lid, and emitted a faint sulfur smell, and it’s where
the parallel upshift really broke the tires loose the worse and where
the vibration was the strongest. I decided to cut my losses after this
run, and called it a night.
Back in the pits, the stream of fans never stopped, and most didn’t want
me to stop running the car. With the high rpm vibration seemingly
getting worse and with the pack a bit distressed, I feel I made the
right choice, though. Duane and Steve ran the bike a couple more times,
so it was fun to watch them as a spectator. They really did a great job!
The track shut down at around 11:50, but by the time we had the bike
loaded into the rear of Steve's Ford Ranger and had all the cords and
chargers put away, it was 12:30 AM or so. Steve and Duane bid us
farewell and headed back north towards home, while the rest of us went
over to the local Shari's restaurant for a late night meal.
After good eats and great post racing fellowship, it was time to take
the car home. I was concerned about the 12V battery under the Zombie's
hood, as it hadn't been re-charged since before the last runs and the
drive to the restaurant with the headlights on further drained it. At
only 16 ahrs, and perhaps just 9 or 10 of those ahrs still available,
the math didn't didn't look good for supporting 21 amps for the 25
minute drive home. And with that worry on my mind, with Brent (forklift
technician friend) in the work service truck following me, I left for
home. The lights weren't so bright and as the miles stacked on, they
grew dimmer. At perhaps 4 miles from my house, I decided to save power
by shutting down the headlights and running on parking lights only, all
the while hoping a cop wouldn't spot me driving with my headlights off.
Two miles from home, the main contactor dropped out and the car coasted
slower and slower as I shut down the parking lights and glided in
darkness...nice! About 15 seconds later as the 12V battery bounced back
up, I tried to reboot the Zilla and successfully did so. So here I am,
driving in darkness, each oncoming car convincing me they were a cop, so
I'd pulse on, then off, the parking lights to mark my presence.
Long story short...I made it home. Once there, the car was immediately
put on charge for both the traction pack and the 12V battery. The 360V
pack took the drive home without breaking a sweat and even going up a
steep 2 mile hill on the last leg home, it never fell below 174V under a
fairly heavy load...this, after 16 miles! When the pack is hot, the
range seems to be pretty darn good and the car felt as if it could have
gone 40 miles! Speaking of hot, now a week later, the pack seems to be
doing well after last Friday's punishing evening, and the pack rests at
389-390V at 70-75 degrees ambient temperature. The 12V battery, being a
Hawker, took its charge well, and a week later it sits at 13.1V, so it
lived through a 100% discharge. Chris will be happy to know I've nearly
completed the DC-DC install and will be testing it this weekend on some
nighttime Zombie cruises. I'm pretty happy with the install with it's
clean look and detailed wiring that includes a magnetic blowout high
voltage side power on-off relay, high voltage input fuse, 50 amp low
voltage side output fuse, and all wires run in a sano manner.
Well, that's it for now. Thanks to everyone for listening, and thanks to
all for the help and support! Stay tuned for more racing adventures and
fun with White Zombie.
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
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