EV Digest 5672
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Tesla Motors unveiled
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: More fun with Optimas
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) remove
by "ralph buttigieg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Setting up a Car Line, Some really FWD thinking.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Conversion Companies
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: More fun with Optimas
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: More fun with Optimas
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Truck transaxle tribulations....
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Truck transaxle tribulations....
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: More fun with Optimas
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Fwd: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery :: Shenzhen,
China
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) CalCar affiliation with EAA
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery :: Shenz
hen, China
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery :: Shenz
hen, China
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 1991 G-Van on Ebay, in Mesa, AZ
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: E-meter Companion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery ::
Shenz hen, China
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: E-meter Companion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Another Ebay scam? - be warned
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Wilderness EV - Saga continues
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Vectrix BMS???
by "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: DC-DC sugestions
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery :: Shenz
hen, China
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Local Boy Does Interview with WKTEC Star...
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
What I saw when putting the pictures of the Lotus Elise 3
and the Tesla side by side was that the CHASSIS seems to be
identical, but the styling of the panels is quite different,
so it seems to be "based on" the Elise 3 (Federal).
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/pictures/edatabase/viewpicture.php?id=
116&image=chassis.jpg&title=chassis&album=laautoshow03
and from the unveiling pictures:
http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/autoblog/hirezpics/IMG_6894.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/20/tesla-roadster-unveiling-in-santa-monica/
Some striking details ARE the same, such as the striplights next to
the wheels on the fenders.
But the design of the hood, the lines on the side, the scoop, a lot of
things
are different, so it is not really a look-a-like.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:07 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
Apparently the Tesla is actually a Lotus - I have just been listening
to the BBC radio station in Norfolk and they just mentioned it in the
news!
Regards
Nikki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chances are your E-meter was acting up under the hot sun. Mine sometimes
does that when it is hot and sunny. It would start counting phantom amps.
Re-tightening the current sensing wires tend to fix the problem.
On 7/20/06, Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I drove my car to work today after it sat unused for a few days. I took
the car for a short drive last night to cycle the batteries a little,
then recharged the pack.
The drive in was pretty normal, and the air temperature was very nice.
I didn't measure the pack temperature but I assume it was not hot since
the car had been sitting idle for several days while the air temperature
was fairly mild. My battery boxes are insulated, so I assume that the
batteries heated up some during the drive.
When I went out to check the charger after lunch I found that it had
turned off early, with about -6.5ah still showing on the E-Meter. The
outside air temperature had also warmed up A LOT since the morning
(Portland is heading into another heat wave for the next few days),
and the charging spot is in full sun for much of the day. I measured
the batteries and they were all at about 100F. I cycled the charger
again and it quickly ramped down to less than an amp of current due to
the regulators.
The batteries were acting pretty much as they always do, with the usual
suspects starting to regulate in the same order. The pack was just at a
lower voltage than normal (temp compensation in the regulators) and the
charger was unable to return all of the amp hours that had been drawn out.
My question is: if a pack is discharged while cold but then heats up
while charging (in my case, from the hot day), would I expect to be able
to return all of the amp hours taken out?
Ralph
--
Edward Ang
AirLab
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
remove
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:18 PM
Subject: EV digest 5671
EV Digest 5671
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 1991 G-Van on Ebay, in Mesa, AZ
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Truck transaxle tribulations....
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Another Ebay scam? - be warned
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Tesla Motors unveiled
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Funky Optimas
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Funky Optimas
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Weekend in Portland, OR
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Setting up a Car Line, Some really FWD thinking.
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Funky Optimas
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Truck runs at last (and is towed home)
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) More fun with Optimas
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Gravely tractor conversion
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re:EVLN(Ocean City nEVs in just about any color that you want)
by "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: GM should have crash tested the EV1. Not crushed it.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: T-Zero early version?
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: T-Zero early version?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: 1991 G-Van on Ebay, in Mesa, AZ
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: More fun with Optimas
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 1991 G-Van on Ebay, in Mesa, AZ
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/390 - Release Date: 17/07/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murry : I determined it is much more economical to convert existing
cars to electric, isn't that all we care about anyway, eliminate the
gasoline engine? The major cost of a conversion is the battery pack, we
can use something here to lower the cost.
Jack
For an individual's own use, yes. But for sale to the general
public, the car is not designed to be an electric vehicle and ends up
with poor "EV" mileage, extra weight and loss of useable cargo space.
The perception is that it is a conversion. Solectria did a good job of
useing a glider that is new and converting it, but it makes EV company
dependent on a car manufacturer who can "pull the plug" easily.
I think an economy of scale is what is needed to get the price of
batteries, controllers,motors and gearboxes down to where Joe and Jane
sixpack can go to the "insert EVcar company name" dealer and buy a new
EV with factory warantee for about the same as an ICE one. Someone,
somewhere needs to beat them at their own game. The size of the line
and the degree of the size doesn't have to be comparable because we are
free to think differently, we are doing it already.
more thoughts.
No yearly car models, Imagine it more like your PC. Continual upgrades
as you see fit. This is achieved thru Open Standard Interfaces.
For example: The battery pack is a self contained box with spring loaded
connectors and an interface protocol to the internal BMS. They can be
installed and removed in minutes and rebuild off line.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
From the feedback I am getting on the Album website it looks like I
need to make a list of EV conversion companies. If you know of one
please send it to me off list and please include the contact info to
reach them. I have a section for manufacturers and converters in the
web links page on the EV Album site, but it looks like I need to
separate those and add more conversion companies.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do have a PFC-20 and a full set of Mk2B regs, with the REGBUS connected.
The regs are set to about 14.8v at 70F. The charger starts cutting the
current back when any reg starts regulating or when the pack hits a setpoint
(191v in my case), and I have the charger's shut-off timer configured to
start running when either the regs start regulating or the pack voltage
hits the setpoint.
The regs are attached to the top of the batteries they are monitoring,
with an additional external load zip-tied to a nearby battery cable. It's
possible for the heat from the regs to fool the temp compensation into
thinking the battery is hotter than it is.
When I got home from work last night I measured the battery temperatures
and they were all at about 100F. I left the box covers and top insulation
off for the evening, and turned the charger down to about 5 amps and let
it run a normal cycle. This morning the E-Meter was showing -13.5 amphours,
so the pack once again was undercharged by about 6.5 amphours. When I
restarted the charger this morning it once again ramped quickly down to less
than an amp, and the usuall suspects were regulating first. The batteries
were all about 80-85F.
Ralph
Roger Stockton writes:
>
> Ralph Merwin wrote:
>
> > When I went out to check the charger after lunch I found that it had
> > turned off early, with about -6.5ah still showing on the E-Meter.
>
> Aren't you using a PFCxx charger? What criteria does it look for in
> order to turn off? As I understand, it isn't temp compensated, so it
> will try to take the bats to the same voltage regardless of their temp;
> if the bats are hot, then this voltage will be too high and the current
> may not taper off as it should, which should lead to the charger running
> *longer* than expected if you are terminating based on a timer started
> when the voltage setpoint is hit.
>
> But, you are also running regs, which are temp compensated, and so will
> try to clamp the batteries at a lower (possibly significantly lower)
> voltage than the charger is trying to take them to. This might result
> in the charger never being able to hit the voltage setpoint. At the
> very least, it means the regs may start bypassing earlier in the charge
> cycle, while the charger is still running at whatever highish bulk
> current you have dialed in. This suggests the regs will we working hard
> trying to bypass a lot of amps and they might easily overheat or latch
> on fully (or both), which will cause the charger to shut down via the
> REGBUS connection (again, if I understand the system correctly).
>
> Depending on where the regs (and their loads) are mounted relative to
> their battery temp sensors, the heat they generate might even cause them
> to temp compensate the voltage setpoint to an even lower value than
> you'd expect based on the battery temp. What you describe might happen
> if the regs over-compensate the setpoint voltage down too far as a
> result of self-heating, and as a result the current into the batteries
> tapers off to such a low level that the chrager is unable to fully
> charge the batteries before the charge duration timer expires (assuming
> it was started when the charger hit its voltage setpoint).
>
> > My question is: if a pack is discharged while cold but then heats up
> > while charging (in my case, from the hot day), would I expect
> > to be able to return all of the amp hours taken out?
>
> Yes, I would expect so.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Edward Ang writes:
>
> Chances are your E-meter was acting up under the hot sun. Mine sometimes
> does that when it is hot and sunny. It would start counting phantom amps.
> Re-tightening the current sensing wires tend to fix the problem.
Thanks. I'll look into this tomorrow.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A failing U-joint can make a lot of noise. On my Silverado I was noticing road
noise before you
could see any problem with the U-joint. Soemwhere between a missing cylinder
and bad tire. With a
few needles missing, it can sound really bad.
Do both ends of the driveshaft, the U-joints should be reasonably priced. Mine
were less than $15
each.
--- Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On a slightly more positive note, I went out this evening and fired up
> the truck. Then with the driveshaft out tried spinning up the motor and
> gears. Sounded good, no clunking or crunching.
>
> Maybe I'm lucky and it is the shaft or the differential.
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
A failing U-joint can make a lot of noise. On my Silverado I was noticing road
noise before you
could see any problem with the U-joint. Soemwhere between a missing cylinder
and bad tire. With a
few needles missing, it can sound really bad.
Do both ends of the driveshaft, the U-joints should be reasonably priced. Mine
were less than $15
each.
Assuming I can find them. The part I got from Advantage Auto didn't fit;
the unit itself says "Spicer" on one end, and P8V on the main body.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Responding to my own post with more information. I checked on the charger
and pack before leaving for work this morning and the pack was acting
normal, with all of the regulators blinking away, except for the two that
always lag behind. the E-Meter was showing less than an amp of current.
The battery voltages were all at about 14.68v (except for the two pairs
that were at about 14.2v. The battery temperatures were about 80-85F, so
according to my temp comp chart 14.68v is about right.
It occured to me that the pack really is OK (or at least not unusual), but
that the E-Meter's voltage setpoint (190v in my case) is not temperature
compensated, so when the regulators reduce their voltage setpoints when
the battery temperatures increase, the E-Meter will never see the 'charged
voltage' parameter, so will never clear the accumulated amphours.
I may also have a misconfigured 'charging efficiency' parameter causing
the E-Meter to incorrectly track the amphours while charging. I'll have
to dig through the E-Meter manual this weekend.
Ralph
Ralph Merwin writes:
>
>
> I do have a PFC-20 and a full set of Mk2B regs, with the REGBUS connected.
> The regs are set to about 14.8v at 70F. The charger starts cutting the
> current back when any reg starts regulating or when the pack hits a setpoint
> (191v in my case), and I have the charger's shut-off timer configured to
> start running when either the regs start regulating or the pack voltage
> hits the setpoint.
>
> The regs are attached to the top of the batteries they are monitoring,
> with an additional external load zip-tied to a nearby battery cable. It's
> possible for the heat from the regs to fool the temp compensation into
> thinking the battery is hotter than it is.
>
> When I got home from work last night I measured the battery temperatures
> and they were all at about 100F. I left the box covers and top insulation
> off for the evening, and turned the charger down to about 5 amps and let
> it run a normal cycle. This morning the E-Meter was showing -13.5 amphours,
> so the pack once again was undercharged by about 6.5 amphours. When I
> restarted the charger this morning it once again ramped quickly down to less
> than an amp, and the usuall suspects were regulating first. The batteries
> were all about 80-85F.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> Roger Stockton writes:
> >
> > Ralph Merwin wrote:
> >
> > > When I went out to check the charger after lunch I found that it had
> > > turned off early, with about -6.5ah still showing on the E-Meter.
> >
> > Aren't you using a PFCxx charger? What criteria does it look for in
> > order to turn off? As I understand, it isn't temp compensated, so it
> > will try to take the bats to the same voltage regardless of their temp;
> > if the bats are hot, then this voltage will be too high and the current
> > may not taper off as it should, which should lead to the charger running
> > *longer* than expected if you are terminating based on a timer started
> > when the voltage setpoint is hit.
> >
> > But, you are also running regs, which are temp compensated, and so will
> > try to clamp the batteries at a lower (possibly significantly lower)
> > voltage than the charger is trying to take them to. This might result
> > in the charger never being able to hit the voltage setpoint. At the
> > very least, it means the regs may start bypassing earlier in the charge
> > cycle, while the charger is still running at whatever highish bulk
> > current you have dialed in. This suggests the regs will we working hard
> > trying to bypass a lot of amps and they might easily overheat or latch
> > on fully (or both), which will cause the charger to shut down via the
> > REGBUS connection (again, if I understand the system correctly).
> >
> > Depending on where the regs (and their loads) are mounted relative to
> > their battery temp sensors, the heat they generate might even cause them
> > to temp compensate the voltage setpoint to an even lower value than
> > you'd expect based on the battery temp. What you describe might happen
> > if the regs over-compensate the setpoint voltage down too far as a
> > result of self-heating, and as a result the current into the batteries
> > tapers off to such a low level that the chrager is unable to fully
> > charge the batteries before the charge duration timer expires (assuming
> > it was started when the charger hit its voltage setpoint).
> >
> > > My question is: if a pack is discharged while cold but then heats up
> > > while charging (in my case, from the hot day), would I expect
> > > to be able to return all of the amp hours taken out?
> >
> > Yes, I would expect so.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone seen this? According to the Everspring link, they've reduced prices
way down, $.16 per
watt. $1600 for a 10kw pack. These are the Thundersky batteries. Do they
include a BMS? Does
anyone have experience with the brand?
Dave Cover
--- Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Subject: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery :: Shenzhen,
> China
>
> From:
> http://www.everspring.net/product-battery.htm
> via: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20060707034804AA3yp0F
>
> Lithium ion Power Battery
> Environmental friendly Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery is an
> cost effective
> alternative for Lithium Ion Battery of high power, high capacity, security
> and practicability.
>
> Lithium ion Power Battery is almost 1/10th the cost of other Lithium Ion
> Battery.
>
> Thunder Sky, based in Shenzhen, China, a leading supplier of patented Solid
> State Lithium ion
> Power Battery based on the Liquid Lithium Ion Battery and Solid Polymer
> Lithium Ion Battery.
> Solid Sate Lithium ion Power Battery is mainly for electric motor cycle,
> electric vehicle, bus
> and other electrical transportation instruments. The standard products are
> 50Ah, 90Ah, 100Ah,
> and 200Ah.
>
> US Patent No.: US006686096B1
>
>
>
> Picture: Lithium ion Power Batteries in "Hong Qi" Electric Car
>
> Lithium ion Power Battery can deliver much higher power (KW) for a longer
> period of time
> comparing to lead acid battery with the same price and it is very suitable
> for lead acid battery
> replacement.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Similar to Plug-In-America, CalCars is seeking affiliation with the Electric
Auto Association. We need one more member to support CalCars to make this
official. Either by becoming a new member, switching chapter support or
adding chapter support with a $10 contribution. Anyone willing to do this
to push them over the top?
- Will
Electric Auto Association
323 Los Altos Drive
Aptos, CA 95003
http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(831) 688-8669
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the purchase price is indeed $.16/watt, then I'd agree that is great news.
However I suspect that what they're trying to imply is that since the TS's are
4 times the price of flooded lead, but
deliver 4 times the whr's over their estimated lifetime, then they are the same
price as flooded lead.
I had done some estimates a year or so age that basically showed the same
results... over their expected lifetime, the
TS's are the same cost or slightly cheaper than flooded lead in regards to
whr's delivered. Of course this is
dependent on TS's delivering their expected cycle life. It will also take
something like 80,000 - 100,000 miles
before that break even point is reached.
Again, I reiterate line 1. If their purchase price is $.16 per watt. Great
news. That would make TS's 4 times cheaper
than lead.
(for the nit-pickers among us...) My 4's are just arbitrary numbers used to
illustrate a point. They're close, but not
entirely accurate.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 10:47 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Fwd: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery ::
> Shenzhen, China
>
> Has anyone seen this? According to the Everspring link, they've reduced
> prices way down, $.16 per watt. $1600 for a 10kw pack. These are the
> Thundersky batteries. Do they include a BMS? Does anyone have experience
> with the brand?
>
> Dave Cover
>
> --- Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Subject: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery ::
>> Shenzhen, China
>>
>> From:
>> http://www.everspring.net/product-battery.htm
>> via: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20060707034804AA3yp0F
>>
>> Lithium ion Power Battery
>> Environmental friendly Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery
>> is an cost effective alternative for Lithium Ion Battery of high power,
> high capacity, security and practicability.
>>
>> Lithium ion Power Battery is almost 1/10th the cost of other Lithium Ion
> Battery.
>>
>> Thunder Sky, based in Shenzhen, China, a leading supplier of patented
>> Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery based on the Liquid Lithium Ion
> Battery and Solid Polymer Lithium Ion Battery.
>> Solid Sate Lithium ion Power Battery is mainly for electric motor
>> cycle, electric vehicle, bus and other electrical transportation
>> instruments. The standard products are 50Ah, 90Ah, 100Ah, and 200Ah.
>>
>> US Patent No.: US006686096B1
>>
>>
>>
>> Picture: Lithium ion Power Batteries in "Hong Qi" Electric Car
>>
>> Lithium ion Power Battery can deliver much higher power (KW) for a
>> longer period of time comparing to lead acid battery with the same
>> price and it is very suitable for lead acid battery replacement.
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go to this link. It shows a chart with the prices. It's pretty direct. I just
don't know what they
aren't showing.
http://www.everspring.net/product-battery.htm
--- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the purchase price is indeed $.16/watt, then I'd agree that is great news.
>
> However I suspect that what they're trying to imply is that since the TS's
> are 4 times the price
> of flooded lead, but
> deliver 4 times the whr's over their estimated lifetime, then they are the
> same price as flooded
> lead.
>
> I had done some estimates a year or so age that basically showed the same
> results... over their
> expected lifetime, the
> TS's are the same cost or slightly cheaper than flooded lead in regards to
> whr's delivered. Of
> course this is
> dependent on TS's delivering their expected cycle life. It will also take
> something like 80,000
> - 100,000 miles
> before that break even point is reached.
>
> Again, I reiterate line 1. If their purchase price is $.16 per watt. Great
> news. That would make
> TS's 4 times cheaper
> than lead.
>
>
> (for the nit-pickers among us...) My 4's are just arbitrary numbers used to
> illustrate a point.
> They're close, but not
> entirely accurate.
>
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Dave Cover
> > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 10:47 AM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Fwd: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery ::
> > Shenzhen, China
> >
> > Has anyone seen this? According to the Everspring link, they've reduced
> > prices way down, $.16 per watt. $1600 for a 10kw pack. These are the
> > Thundersky batteries. Do they include a BMS? Does anyone have experience
> > with the brand?
> >
> > Dave Cover
> >
> > --- Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Subject: [BMBB] Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery ::
> >> Shenzhen, China
> >>
> >> From:
> >> http://www.everspring.net/product-battery.htm
> >> via: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20060707034804AA3yp0F
> >>
> >> Lithium ion Power Battery
> >> Environmental friendly Colloid Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery
> >> is an cost effective alternative for Lithium Ion Battery of high power,
> > high capacity, security and practicability.
> >>
> >> Lithium ion Power Battery is almost 1/10th the cost of other Lithium Ion
> > Battery.
> >>
> >> Thunder Sky, based in Shenzhen, China, a leading supplier of patented
> >> Solid State Lithium ion Power Battery based on the Liquid Lithium Ion
> > Battery and Solid Polymer Lithium Ion Battery.
> >> Solid Sate Lithium ion Power Battery is mainly for electric motor
> >> cycle, electric vehicle, bus and other electrical transportation
> >> instruments. The standard products are 50Ah, 90Ah, 100Ah, and 200Ah.
> >>
> >> US Patent No.: US006686096B1
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Picture: Lithium ion Power Batteries in "Hong Qi" Electric Car
> >>
> >> Lithium ion Power Battery can deliver much higher power (KW) for a
> >> longer period of time comparing to lead acid battery with the same
> >> price and it is very suitable for lead acid battery replacement.
> >>
> >
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
Regarding G-vans I have one and there are 3 others here in Reno, We are
filling them with 36 used STM 180 Nicads
I Have been very happy with mine so far I have been running it as a
daily driver 3k miles on the new pack. I even got the ac running for
about 12 amps additional average draw. These are HEAVY EVs mine is 7k
lbs about 800 less than when it had a lead pack. Being built on a one
ton GM glider and with a big sep-ex motor they are strong, I have easily
towed other vehicles with it. It is slow to get going but easily runs
nice on the freeway at 55. the regen is sweet, due to its very low
center of gravity it handles well too. They have a distinctive whine
that has been describes as a sound effect from a 50s sci-fi movie. While
I have not run it until it stopped to test it, it appears that my range
is at least 60 miles and I have some big hills on my way home. I use a
PFC 20 to charge it and have no bms save for a high temp cut out. The
best I can calculate it appears to be getting an equivalent mileage of
about 30 mpg. I have enclosed the pack and have a couple of big fans
pulling air through it . Watering is every 1k miles and the auto
watering system of the Saft batteries makes it easy. Yes it is a hassle
to get the pack out you simply MUST have a pallet jack and a couple of
friends . Fortunately I haven't had to remove it since I converted to NiCad.
I would like to contact whomever buys this for a more detailed
discussion. Enjoy. Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of good ideas on connectors. Let me explain the problem more fully.
One thing people keep forgetting is that the E-meter connects to the
HIGH VOLTAGE propulsion pack. People also commonly use non-isolated
chargers. Whatever wire and connectors are used should be rated for 240
volt AC powerline use.
So we can use normal low-voltage automotive connectors for the +12v and
ground, but NOT for the high voltage connections.
The Packard MetriPack and WeatherPack connectors, as well as all normal
automotive connectors (trailer connectors and the like), are built for
low voltage (16v) use. They aren't UL listed or fire retardant; if an
arc ever starts in a partially mated connector, it burns! Most also
expose "live" pins when unmated on either the male or female ends.
The Molex SL is a good series; UL/CSA listed, rated to 250v 3amps. The
female half is shrouded (you can't touch the pins). The male half is
partially shrouded; you can see the pins, but can't quite touch them
without a tool. They are small enough to put on the PC board (pins on
0.1" centers, 0.75" mated height above board).
The Molex MiniFit is another option; UL/CSA listed, rated to 600v 9amps.
It's physically larger, and would have to go on the end of a cable (pins
are on .165" centers, 1" height). The male and female pins are both
fully shrouded (untouchable).
The AMP Mate-N-Lock series is another one. This is a very large, old
family of parts, UL/CSA listed, 600v, 15amps, -40 +105C. It is large
(0.163" between pins, 1.25" mated length), fully shrouded, and there are
open and waterproof versions. Cost is about $1 per mated wire.
The Molex MX150L is yet another series. It's a large, waterproof
connector (0.23" between pins, 3" mated length), fully shrouded. It is
not UL listed, but is rated to 600v, 18amps, -40 +125C. Main drawback is
that it costs about $2 per mated wire.
Another drawback from the user's perspective is that none of these Molex
or AMP connectors are normally used in cars. You can't get them from
Radio Shack or Pep Boys; you'll have to go to Digikey, Mouse, or Waytek.
You also need special tools to assemble them (mainly a good terminal
crimper -- not the cheap hardware store variety or needle-nose pliers).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:31 AM 7/21/2006, Dave Cover wrote:
Go to this link. It shows a chart with the prices. It's pretty
direct. I just don't know what they
aren't showing.
http://www.everspring.net/product-battery.htm
No, it doesn't show prices. It shows comparisons of $/Watt.
The pricing page (link at the right) lists all the prices as "contact us".
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerryd wrote:
This is what I've been waiting for to use the E-meter successfully.
I'd want the full boat, or at least the SOC, Amps, Volts, kwhrs
and the ability to turn off a dumb battery charger.
Any idea of how much this type of unit would cost with display of
4 values, shunt, DC/DC, etc. total to install parts wise?
The BASIC Stamp 2 is about $50. It has the advantage that you can
program it yourself, to do whatever you want. There is also a 28-pin PIC
socket; the experts in the audience can leave off the Stamp and use a $3
PIC, programmed in assembler or C to do whatever they want.
Beyond this, there is a $20 DC/DC for the E-meter. The rest are sub-$1
parts. The grand total is probably under $100, or under $50 if you use a
PIC instead of the Stamp.
Do you still have the E-meter displays in addition to the 4?
Yes.
How much does an E meter cost now days?
The E-Meter (a.k.a Link-10) is about $150 with shunt. With this setup,
you don't need their DC/DC or prescaler.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it is worse than it looks! The motor spacer appears to be painted
wood! Kind of makes those of us who "overdesign" stuff cringe!
Mark Ward
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:45 PM
Subject: RE: Another Ebay scam? - be warned
Welllllll,
It sounds like he is genuine and has just finished his first
experiments and is ready for the real work. But:
anybody that wants to have that experience does not need to
make the same mistake or pay for the info, as it is all
readily available here on the list - for free. Just ask.
(Or on anyone of the many conversion-sites that so many
people who went before us have so painstakingly detailed
out what they did and why.....)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:37 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Another Ebay scam? - be warned
This sucker bought a scheme "how to make money with an Ebook"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300008413510
and is now offering his conversion experience for sale....
Shown are a photo of a contactor controller on a wooden board
against the firewall, judge the wiring quality to get an idea
about the quality of the book <ahem>
I have no experience with motor-to-gearbox mounting, but
I was surprised to see wood shims to center the motor in
the adapter....
The brackets look undersized to help anything for
motor mounting, but again - I am not a professional:
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ130008162805QQcmdZViewItem
Update - Reply from the seller:
The approach with this project (and its documentation)was to try out a
VARIETY of of MINIMAL tactics to see what could be done and work up
from there. This is not a ''kit'' type project, or a specific part for
a specific result project, but an assortment of ideas tried for
general learning and foundational information about what could be
acheived for the least in all areas; THEN ... how this could be
tweaked with stepped, upgrade options for better all around
performance. The final top speed of the little 2.5 HP motor first used
(often pushed to 7 HP!) was about 45 MPH with an average ''cruising
speed'' of about 30 MPH. Range with the first set of cheap marine
batteries was only about 15 miles. I wind up suggesting a 7 to 12 HP
motor MINIMIMAL and a better grade of 6 volt batteries (for longer
range) to begin with.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My original post this time last month is below.
A month later Wilderness EV (e-volks.com) refuses to answer phone
calls and does not return emails.
They cashed my check June 9 and sent the motor and adapter.
Then nothing, now after 2 months I cannot get hold of them. THey
will not send the rest of the shipm,ent and will not refund my money.
The last time I was able to get hold of them was around the first of
July. Unfortunately, this company gives EV-ers everywhere a bad name.
I am opening a cases with the Utah Attourney General and Better
Business Bureau in hopes of getting my money back.
Potential Customers Beware
David
---------------------
Having driven a NEV for the past 10 months, I thought it might be
fun to do a low budget EV.
I have this non-running VW based fiberglass dune buggy in the back
yard under tarp.
Kit #1 from Wilderness EV / e-volks.com claims to have everything
for a VW conversion except the batteries. .
I have some tired Trojan 12v deep-cycle batteries (from when I
replaced the ones in the NEV), I have kept them charged. This could
be a low cost daily driver and just something for my son and I to
play with.
I understood the kit comes without a controller (has micro-switch
for throttle) and you change gears for speed control with 36v or 48v
batteries. After a little time of playing, we can pick up an
Alltrax controller and pot box and upgrade to 72 volts later for a
daly around town driver.
Now the "fun" begins:
I contacted Wilderness EV via email the later part of May. They were
very responsive
I mailed the order and a personal check May 31. (I knew the check
would have to clear before order shipped)
The check cleared my bank June 6, I tried to contact them via email
(7 Jun) and they did not respond.
I called them Jun 9 and was told the order was shipped Jun 6.
I tried to contact them via email on Jun 14, to get shipping
tracking number and again via email on June 16.
I called them Jun 19 and was told that the order shipped Jun 10 and
I requested a tracking number.
On Jun 20 I sent a follow-up email requesting the tracking number
and they responded with a tracking number.
When I checked the tracking number, I found out the order shipped
June 20, not June 6 or 10.
In follow-up phone call, I was also told only the motor and adapters
were shipped as other parts were on back order.
More phone calls and told numerous times parts will be in within a
day or 2.
June 26, the FedEx arrives. A 70 lb motor and the transmission
adapter were packed in crumpled paper and abrasions on motor where
they banged into each other during shipping.
On the 27th and 28 I sent email to check on status and ask technical
questions.
Emails are unanswered and they do not answer phone messages.
The kit still looks to be a viable low cost daily driver and the
motor checks out ok at low voltage.
However Wilderness EV's business practices and non-customer support
are in my opinion - terrible.
The saga continues waiting for the rest of the kit.
My real life experience.
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After seeing the thread at:
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?s=3d031403504dabe084317f8233797a62&act=ST&f=23&t=3040&st=36
(or http://tinyurl.com/hfmhe )
I was wondering, has anyone heard what level of BMS Vectrix was
implementing? There are a lot of cells in those strings...
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm doing some serious DC-DC research at the 1kW+ level for the range of
90v -> 450v in, 13.8 out. I need to figure out if it will be economical
at low quantity. (i.e. would anyone buy one)
--
Martin K
Rich Rudman wrote:
>A little out of line here..
>
>But......
>
>The Escape HYbrid has a 100+ amp DC to DC converter for the 12 volt rail.
>The system is fed from a 330 DC pack and is water cooled .
>
>It's one serious Dc to DC converter. I AM impressed. I caught it making 85
>amps of 13 volts with my clampon LEM.
>
>So if you have Bucks and can get these parts I am sure they would work
>beyond your demand and at a serious cost.
>
>But.. hey it's there if you can find it.
>
>It looks a LOT like the Dc to Dc that the EV Rangers had, But with all the
>wires still hooked up. It also looks like It can boost the 12 volts back up
>into the 330 pack for the HV jumpstart feature.
>
>I have not proven this but it's to only logical part to do the job.
>
>
>Rich Rudman
>Manzanita Micro
>Got Hybrid Ford.. gonna make it Plug in.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So this could be the same old $%^& in a brand new bottle.
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 08:31 AM 7/21/2006, Dave Cover wrote:
> >Go to this link. It shows a chart with the prices. It's pretty
> >direct. I just don't know what they
> >aren't showing.
> >
> >http://www.everspring.net/product-battery.htm
>
> No, it doesn't show prices. It shows comparisons of $/Watt.
> The pricing page (link at the right) lists all the prices as "contact us".
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now, the One hour talk show, which aired LIVE Monday at 11 am PDT,
now shortened to 35 minutes of substance.
It was 34Mbts as an MP3, now compressed to a convenient 17 mgbts.
( Thanks to our WEB Guru Ryan F.
Now At our SEVA web site at:
http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/EVents_2006_07_17
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
